Open Thread: Who has the best rotation in baseball?

Joba lost more fastball velocity than any other pitcher
Did David Robertson's increased velocity lead to injury?

In his daily blog post this morning, Buster Olney opined about the five best starting rotations in the game, led by the Red Sox. The Yankees placed second, followed (in order) by the White Sox, Angels, and Cardinals. The Phillies also received an honorable mention.

We could argue about who has the best rotation from here until Opening Day, and there’s no right answer. However, what we do have are CHONE projections, so I rounded those up to see how each rotation is expected to perform next season. He’s the four non-New York teams…

All we’re doing is adding, so it doesn’t matter what order the pitchers are listed in. Olney has no idea who the Cardinals’ fifth starter is, and neither do I. And frankly, neither does the team. Regardless, they don’t have any other pitchers projected to be worth over a win, so it doesn’t make much of a difference anyway. Obviously, the BoSox have the best projected rotation among the four teams, with five starters set to be at least league average (two WAR is basically league avg). You have to like the balance in the ChiSox’s rotation though, minus the Freddy Garcia eyesore.

Now, what about the Yanks?

Olney thinks Phil Hughes will be the fifth starter, though most others think it’ll be Joba Chamberlain. For whatever reason, CHONE has Joba projected as a reliever in 2010, a reliever worth just 0.9 WAR at that. Even if we swap Hughes out for a 0.9 WAR pitcher, the Yanks still outpace the pack by a full win. They have the two best projected starters among the five teams in CC Sabathia and Javy Vazquez, and are the only team besides Chicago with four 3.0+ WAR pitchers on the staff.

Remember, these are just projections, far from gospel. They’re not telling us what will happen, but what could happen based on past data. Don’t take them to heart, they’re just for fun. That said, I like the way the numbers worked out.

Anyway, here’s your open thread for the evening. The Islanders, Nets, and Knicks are all in action. Anything goes, just be cool.

email
Joba lost more fastball velocity than any other pitcher
Did David Robertson's increased velocity lead to injury?
  • http://www.puristbleedspinstripes.com Rebecca-Optimist Prime (Optimovelist Primus)

    I like the RAB watermark.

    • http://www.riveraveblues.com Mike Axisa

      As they say at Wu-Tang Financial: You gotta protect yo intellectual property and shit.

      • http://twitter.com/tsjc68 tommiesmithjohncarlos a/k/a Archimedes Torquemada

        You need to diversify your bonds, n#$%&a.

        • http://i.cdn.turner.com/si/multimedia/photo_gallery/0902/mlb.alex.rodriguez.through.the.years/images/1993.alex-rodriguez.jpg Drew

          In, out, get, grab, bonk.

        • Scooter

          Smith Barney? A bunch of bitches

          Step to the Wu:
          http://noolmusic.com/comedy_ce.....ancial.php

          • http://twitter.com/tsjc68 tommiesmithjohncarlos a/k/a Archimedes Torquemada

            When your bum is leaking, you need to be seeking:

            RocaPads.

  • http://twitter.com/tsjc68 tommiesmithjohncarlos a/k/a Archimedes Torquemada

    More Fangraphs colorful charts fun:

    Jazzy Vazquez: http://www.fangraphs.com/pitch.....position=P (safe)

    He added a quality two-seamer? Nice. 2010 Jazzy the Yankee >>>>>>>>> 2004 Jazzy the Yankee.

    • Rocky Road Redemption (formerly RAB poster)

      What would you give as the percentage chance of Vasquez getting below a 4 ERA?

    • kunaldo

      i like how you labeled that safe. fangraphs can be racy from time to time

      • http://twitter.com/tsjc68 tommiesmithjohncarlos a/k/a Archimedes Torquemada

        Jason Varitek’s 2008 season http://www.fangraphs.com/stats.....eason=2008 (not safe)

        • Rocky Road Redemption (formerly RAB poster)

          My eyes…my eyes…

  • JGS

    I have a snow day tomorrow.

    this is awesome

    • Scooter

      With another 10″ poised to hit DC, I could have a snow week. The office will be shut tomorrow.. and likely Thursday as well. I can’t see opening up for one day, with the 3 day weekend coming up. I also have no idea where they’re putting this snow.

      Here’s an example of the degree of insanity right now – a Lowes about 20 miles south of DC got an order for 1200 shovels Sunday morning. I ordered 3 online around noon Sunday.

      Picked them up yesterday. Lowes was completely sold out.

      At the local grocery store, the only meat left was lamb. Sorry, Bambi

      • Chip

        I’m in DC too, I can’t find a shovel anywhere in this town.

        • http://twitter.com/tsjc68 tommiesmithjohncarlos a/k/a Archimedes Torquemada

          I’m in DC too, I can’t find a shovel anywhere in this town.

          (fighting the urge to make a political “hoe” joke)

    • Chip

      I just moved out to the east coast from North Dakota. You people are crazy when it comes to snow. Back home it literally takes two feet of snow and 40 mph winds to even start considering closing the schools.

      • http://twitter.com/tsjc68 tommiesmithjohncarlos a/k/a Archimedes Torquemada

        Fun Fact:

        Going to public school in Lincoln, Nebraska, I had more school closures due to “heat days” than “cold/snow days”.

      • pat

        Hahah, well we have just a tiny bit more stuff in our major cities here on the east coast. There’s just nowhere to put hundreds of thousands of cubic feet of snow in NYC, Boston, DC etc.

      • http://i.cdn.turner.com/si/multimedia/photo_gallery/0902/mlb.alex.rodriguez.through.the.years/images/1993.alex-rodriguez.jpg Drew

        Yeah, driving on roads with buildings and other cars is not safe on snow covered roads.

        /Never been to ND’d

      • JGS

        They are saying 10-16 inches in Brooklyn. I’m postgrad though, I shouldnt be getting snow days anymore

        • Chip

          I’m in DC now and we just got 32 inches and they’re talking another 10-20 inches tonight into tomorrow. I had grad school off yesterday as well so I guess I can’t complain too much :)

      • pete

        eh i’m outside of boston, and we had more “cold” days than snow days. That was just our town though. Our highway dept. was ridiculous. I remember one year we got 38 inches of snow from a Sunday morning into a Monday morning and still had school on Monday. I was pissed as shit.

      • Big Juan

        That’s how it is up here in VT. It takes a lot of snow to cancel school. If anything, we have “ice days”.

    • Alex S

      sweet me too

  • http://twitter.com/tsjc68 tommiesmithjohncarlos a/k/a Archimedes Torquemada

    Where on those CHONE team projection pages is WAR?

    I’d like to know where the Braves quintet of Jurjjens-Hanson-Hudson-Lowe-Kawakami grade out.

    • http://www.riveraveblues.com Mike Axisa
      • http://twitter.com/tsjc68 tommiesmithjohncarlos a/k/a Archimedes Torquemada

        Are you using the nERA column as the WAR numbers? What is “nERA” and what’s “R vs Rep”?

        • http://www.riveraveblues.com Mike Axisa

          R vs Rep = runs over replacement level. 10 runs = 1 win

          • http://twitter.com/tsjc68 tommiesmithjohncarlos a/k/a Archimedes Torquemada

            Ah. Grazia.

        • Chip

          I assume R vs REP is runs over replacement and then nERA is normalized ERA?

          So if 10 wins = win you should be able to divide the R vs REP by ten to get WAR I think

      • pat

        Where are u getting the WAR from?

  • Slugger27

    i love CC, and i think hes a badass…. but theres no way he should project to be a full win better than lester

    im not saying the systems are overrating CC as much as i think theyre underrating lester…. the projection system in my head has them BOTH at 5.6

    • http://i.cdn.turner.com/si/multimedia/photo_gallery/0902/mlb.alex.rodriguez.through.the.years/images/1993.alex-rodriguez.jpg Drew

      The projection system in your head is broke.

      To troubleshoot, approach a nearby wall. Proceed to head-butt the wall until you find yourself unconscious. When you wake, your projection system should be good to go.

      • Slugger27

        lester 2008 war = 5.1
        lester 2009 war = 6.2

        i think sabathia is overall a slightly better pitcher, and his 5.6 sounds a little low, but 4.5 for lester seems wayyyyy off

        • http://twitter.com/tsjc68 tommiesmithjohncarlos a/k/a Archimedes Torquemada

          CC 2008 WAR = 7.5
          CC 2009 WAR = 6.0

          Win(n).

        • Chip

          It might be a bit low but that’s better than Lackey, Hamels, Kershaw, Brett Anderson, Cain and Edwin Jackson put up last year. 4.5 is still a VERY good season by a starting pitcher

    • Chip

      I’d agree but it’s a regression system so his lack of innings three years ago is probably having some effect with the fact that younger pitchers are more volatile probably hurting a bit as well. Sabathia has shown more durability, is in his prime and has significantly out-WAR’d him over the past 3 years

    • vin

      Probably the biggest reason for the huge difference in WAR projection between CC and Lester is the large amount of (high quality) innings CC projects to pitch every year. On any given day Lester can absolutely out-pitch CC, but CC has averaged (over 162 games) 223 innings/season in his career. Lester’s 162 game average is 207.

      There’s tremendous value in those 16 extra innings. That’s like CC pitching 2 extra 8-inning games – as opposed to innings that would be thrown by the bullpen. A guy like CC (or Halladay) makes the entire team better because of the load he carries. Not to say Lester can’t be that guy, but he hasn’t yet proven it like CC has.

      BTW, CC is 3 1/2 years older than Lester, yet has 7 more full seasons under his belt. He’s got a tremendous track record.

      • Slugger27

        you make great points

        after thinking about it further, these projections systems are being too bearish on both pitchers

        CC should probably be in the 6-6.5 range, and lester should be in the 5.5-6 range

    • bexarama

      Projection systems aside, I really hope Lester falls off a cliff but he’s pretty darn awesome and underrated. Like, I’m actually pretty surprised at how underrated he is. I guess it makes up for how overrated Beckett, Dice-K, and some of their prospects are/were.

    • Edwantsacracker

      I don’t think that the CC vs. Lester sticks out nearly as much as Javy Vazquez projected to be better than Lester or Beckett…

  • Cecala

    “”When he and I go to a Greek restaurant, he always orders octopus,” Boras said.”

    Detriot is sure to sign Damon now that they know that he orders octopus. Boras just on another intellectual letter than the rest of us.

    http://www.freep.com/article/2.....gs-Yzerman

    • Cecala

      intellectual level*

    • http://twitter.com/tsjc68 tommiesmithjohncarlos a/k/a Archimedes Torquemada

      “’When he and I go to a Greek restaurant, he always orders octopus,’ Boras said.”

      There’s a horrible gay joke in there somewhere.

  • http://twitter.com/tsjc68 tommiesmithjohncarlos a/k/a Archimedes Torquemada

    Giants:
    Lincecum – 5.8
    Cain – 3.9
    Sanchez – 2.0
    Zito – 1.6
    _________ – ???

    That’s 13.3 before they even add a fifth starter. If Bumgarner is halfway decent, the Giants can be in that convo as well.

    I’d take their rotation over whatever the Angels, Cardinals, or Phillies (Olney’s 6th best rotation) put together.

    1.) Yankees

    (gap)

    2.) Red Sox
    3.) White Sox

    (gap)

    4.) Giants
    5.) Angels
    6.) Cardinals
    7.) Phillies
    8.) Mariners
    9.) Braves
    10.) Rockies

    • Chip

      True but you’re making the assumption that Olney thought this through and looked up numbers rather than going with the teams with the five biggest names. I think everybody in the league is underrating how good Vazquez could be this year which is quite unusual for a Yankee

      • pete

        I think people outside of NY are also underrating how good Joba could be this year.

        • Tom Zig

          and Vazquez too.

  • bexarama

    I had a dream last night that the Mauer talks completely fell through with Minnesota and they ended up trading him to Boston for JUST Josh Reddick. It was one of those dreams that seemed so real that I actually woke up this morning and fearfully checked MLB.com to check that it didn’t actually happen.

    I really need pitchers and catchers and everyone else to report so I can stop thinking of things like this and actually, like, watch baseball.

    • http://twitter.com/tsjc68 tommiesmithjohncarlos a/k/a Archimedes Torquemada

      I really need pitchers and catchers and everyone else to report so I can stop thinking of things like this…

      http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2010_swimsuit

      You’re welcome.

      • Chip

        You’re a gentleman and a scholar

        • http://twitter.com/tsjc68 tommiesmithjohncarlos a/k/a Archimedes Torquemada

          I give because I love.

      • bexarama

        I’m a girl, that doesn’t help. ;)

        • bexarama

          But that did give me the idea to go look at pictures of Joe Mauer, so thanks.

        • http://twitter.com/tsjc68 tommiesmithjohncarlos a/k/a Archimedes Torquemada

          Girls can appreciate the beauty of the feminine form.

          If you are one of those girls, and know another, the two of you should call me sometime.

          (No fat chicks.)

          • bexarama

            i lol’ed

            • http://twitter.com/tsjc68 tommiesmithjohncarlos a/k/a Archimedes Torquemada

              Women love a man who can make them laugh. And the love a man with a large cock.

              I’m just sayin’…

      • pat

        Those girls are a little too awake for my taste.

        • http://twitter.com/tsjc68 tommiesmithjohncarlos a/k/a Archimedes Torquemada

          You sick fucko.

    • JGS

      seems like a fair trade. Maybe if they throw in Nathan too

      /Gammons’d

      • http://twitter.com/tsjc68 tommiesmithjohncarlos a/k/a Archimedes Torquemada

        Four way deal:

        Boston gets: Mauer, Nathan, Adrian Gonzalez, Donovan Tate, Hanley Ramirez, Michael Stanton
        Twins get: Josh Reddick, George Kottaras
        Padres get: Mike Lowell, Jed Lowrie
        Marlins get: Jonathan Van Every, the rights to Craig Hansen

        • JGS

          Kottaras is on the Brewers now, and no way that is worth giving up Lowrie

          • http://twitter.com/tsjc68 tommiesmithjohncarlos a/k/a Archimedes Torquemada

            Thanks for the correction.

            Boston gets: Mauer, Nathan, Adrian Gonzalez, Donovan Tate, Hanley Ramirez, Michael Stanton
            Twins get: Josh Reddick, George Kottaras Dusty Brown
            Padres get: Mike Lowell, Jed Lowrie Gil Velazquez
            Marlins get: Jonathan Van Every, the rights to Craig Hansen

            Fixed.

        • http://www.mystiqueandaura.com Steve H

          And I’m assuming the Padres, Twins and Marlins would pick up a ton of salary (after signing Mauer and A-Gonz long term) to help out the mid-market Sox, right?

          • http://twitter.com/tsjc68 tommiesmithjohncarlos a/k/a Archimedes Torquemada

            It’s the only way they can compete in that tiny, impoverished population base.

  • http://www.mystiqueandaura.com Steve H

    That Angels rotation does not put the Jim Rice fear into me. It’s what, a #2 and a bunch of #3’s and #4’s?

    And yeah, Olney’s analysis sucks. Aj is the key? I wouldn’t be stunned if come October he’s their 4th best starter.

    • Slugger27

      i think these projections on pretty bullish on both kazmir and santana

      im with ya, angels rotation seems overrated

      • JGS

        yea, factor in Mike Scioscia and you get

        Weaver: 7.1
        Kazmir: 5.9
        Saunders: 4.6
        Santana: 4.0
        Piniero: 3.8

        • JGS

          yea, but factor in Mike Scioscia and you get

          • bexarama

            I saw someone on a Yankee board say that what the Angels accomplished during the 2000s was more impressive than what the Yankees did during 1996-2003. They had to have been trolling… right?

            • JGS

              They finished under .500 a year after winning it all

    • pete

      I think Buster just meant that AJ could be the difference between a good rotation and an insanely dominant amazing rotation. Which is still wrong, since AJ is a solidly above average starter overall every year, and never deviates far from his standard 4.00 ERA. Personally, I think AJ goes 4.05, Javy goes 4.15, and Andy goes 4.35. It’s joba what’ll be the difference-maker. There’s not a bad chance though that 4 yankee starters go under 4.00 with andy being not far above that mark. That’d be pretty redonkulous for the AL East.

  • http://iheartrerun.com/wordpress/wp-content/uploads/2009/02/rerun.jpg The Honorable Congressman Mondesi

    I made this comment late in the last thread, figured I’d follow up here with some pictures of the alleged shenanigans (re: Aceves possibly touching, with the fingers on his pitching hand, something fishy on the brim of his cap):

    http://www.flickr.com/photos/4.....269018365/ (safe)

    The last few pictures are where he really seems to be intentionally touching something on his cap.

    • http://www.mystiqueandaura.com Steve H

      There’s a Bob Griese joke in here somewhere.

    • pat

      That could be anything. Maybe he had a date with Mary Jane Rottencrotch between innings.

      • http://iheartrerun.com/wordpress/wp-content/uploads/2009/02/rerun.jpg The Honorable Congressman Mondesi

        I’m not saying it’s conclusive or anything, but it was really fishy. I remember people noting it in a thread that day, it was noticeable. He kept touching his cap, which was weird, and then they showed a close up of him and he was bringing his index and middle finger on his throwing hand up to his cap and squeezing/rubbing right where there appeared to be a wet spot of some sort.

        • http://www.mystiqueandaura.com Steve H

          Heh. In a reply, to pat, who mentioned Mary Jane Rottencrotch, you managed to fit both “really fishy” and “wet spot.” I think you’re on the same page.

          • http://iheartrerun.com/wordpress/wp-content/uploads/2009/02/rerun.jpg The Honorable Congressman Mondesi

            You missed where I basically said he was finger-banging the wet spot.

            • http://www.mystiqueandaura.com Steve H

              Damn, way to slip that one in unnoticed.

              • pat

                twss

    • Slugger27

      i blame arod

    • http://i.cdn.turner.com/si/multimedia/photo_gallery/0902/mlb.alex.rodriguez.through.the.years/images/1993.alex-rodriguez.jpg Drew

      The white out on the bottom of the brim?

      • http://iheartrerun.com/wordpress/wp-content/uploads/2009/02/rerun.jpg The Honorable Congressman Mondesi

        No, it looks like there’s a wet spot on top of the brim, over his brow on the right side of his face.

  • Januz

    I have no doubt that Boston has the best rotation, bullpen (I actually agree with the opinion that JP is close to being as good as Mariano, and Bard etc are much better), and defense in the league. But their lineup is miles behind the Yankees (Particularly when you match-up third base and centerfield). The big question hanging over this team’s head will be the status of Jeter, Mariano & Gerardi after 2010.

    • http://www.mystiqueandaura.com Steve H

      No doubt that Boston’s rotation is better than the Yankees? Seriously, no doubt? Wow. Even Olney didn’t go that far.

    • pat

      DRobb>> Bard.

      • JGS

        D-Rob > Bard
        Hughes >>>>>>> Bard

        • Rocky Road Redemption (formerly RAB poster)

          I hope Hughes goes to Scranton until the Stretch.

        • http://twitter.com/tsjc68 tommiesmithjohncarlos a/k/a Archimedes Torquemada

          Shit,
          DRob >> Bard
          Hughes >>>>>>> Bard
          Aceves >>> Bard
          Marte >>>>>> Bard

          • Mike Pop

            Let’s not go that far.

            • http://twitter.com/tsjc68 tommiesmithjohncarlos a/k/a Archimedes Torquemada

              OH I’M GOING THAT FAR BABY

      • http://www.mystiqueandaura.com Steve H

        And if Hughes doesn’t go to Scranton, Hughes>>>>Bard

    • Rocky Road Redemption (formerly RAB poster)

      I don’t think there’s much of a question with any of the three. They’ll ALL be back.

    • http://twitter.com/tsjc68 tommiesmithjohncarlos a/k/a Archimedes Torquemada
    • bexarama

      and Bard etc are much better

      http://mlb.mlb.com/media/video.....id=6021619 (safe)

      (Yeah, I know he’s a good relief pitcher and I’m not saying he’s crap based on one appearance. I know better than that. But. It. Never. Gets. Old.)

      • Rocky Road Redemption (formerly RAB poster)

        I love listening to the disappointment in the Red Sox broadcaster’s voice.

        • bexarama

          I love watching Boston react to Victor Martinez’s home run in that game. HYSTERICAL. They seriously acted like it was the World Series. I like to think that Girardi told Coke, “Hey, serve up a HR just to f-ck with ‘em.”

      • Sweet Dick Willie

        Thank you.

        You’re right. It NEVER gets old.

        • http://twitter.com/tsjc68 tommiesmithjohncarlos a/k/a Archimedes Torquemada

          Drink it in, it always goes down smooth.

    • http://www.thechuckknoblog.com/ JobaWockeeZ

      I have no doubt that Boston has the best rotation…

      Very, very, very debatable.

      …bullpen (I actually agree with the opinion that JP is close to being as good as Mariano, and Bard etc are much better)

      Not at all. If I’m not missing anyone significant they have Jonathan Papelbon, Daniel Bard, Hideki Okajima, Ramon Ramirez and Manny Delcarmen so far.

      Yankees counter with Mo, Joba/Hughes, K-Rob, Marte, Aceves, Guadin and/or Mitre.

      Mo >> Papelbon (He’s not as good to being Mariano. Mo has a 2.89 FIP, 2.65 xFIP, 1.63 BB/9 and a .90 WHIP. Papelbon has a 3.05 FIP, 3.98 xFIP, BB/9 3.18 and a WHIP of 1.15 Yeah that’s definitely Mo-esque right there)

      Joba/Hughes >>>>> Bard

      Marte > Okajima

      K-Rob >>>>> Ramon Ramirez

      Aceves >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Manny Delcarmen

      and defense in the league
      In the league? Debatable. It’s up there though.

      But their lineup is miles behind the Yankees

      Not as good but certainly isn’t bad.

      The big question hanging over this team’s head will be the status of Jeter, Mariano & Gerardi after 2010.

      Which will be resolved in like 5 minutes.

  • vin

    Comparing teams’ 5 man rotations going into ST is fun, but it really doesn’t tell the whole story. Over the past decade, teams averaged 11 starters per season. Factoring out Sep. callups and scheduling quirks, that leaves maybe 8 guys who will be called upon to win games during the season.

    I’d be more interested to see each of the teams’ 1-8 starters. Are the 6-8 starters coming from the BP, first time call-ups, or veterans on minor league deals? I think that will probably be a better indicator of future success.

    • pete

      1-11 I think Yanks are pretty indisputably #1. Gaudin/Aceves/Mitre/McAllister/Nova are all solid 6th starters, and they are pretty much, in order, the 7th-11th starters. Hughes is at the very least a capable 5th starter, Joba, Andy, AJ, and Javy are all capable of being #2-#3 starters, and CC is as good as just about any other pitcher in baseball. The yanks have VERY good SP depth this year. Borderline ’09 BoSox SP depth (oh no he di-int). The only other team with comparable starting depth is the Rays, but while their 6-8 is clearly better than ours (I think Hughes is as good as, if not better than, Davis, Hellickson, or McGee, but they’ve all got a pretty big edge on him in terms of innings capacities, so i’d give them the nod), they don’t have a legit ace yet. When Price puts it all together though, color me scared.

  • http://www.puristbleedspinstripes.com Rebecca-Optimist Prime (Optimovelist Primus)

    I hope the snow’s not too bad–I’m supposed to move on Thursday

  • Tom Zig

    I don’t have much of a problem with Buster’s rankings. But if you’re going to rank Boston #1 you should have a better write up than the one he did. I mean come on, he writes the word “if” 4 times. I can play that game too. If Joba becomes Don Drysdale and if Phil Hughes becomes Roger Clemens the Yankees will have legendary epic depth.

    • http://twitter.com/tsjc68 tommiesmithjohncarlos a/k/a Archimedes Torquemada

      I also find it fishy that he includes Tim Wakefield as Boston’s #6 starter but doesn’t give us credit for one of Joba/Hughes/Gaudin as our 6th starter.

      Yankees top 5 >> Boston’s top 5
      Yankees top 6 >>>>> Boston’s top 6

      I’m sorry, Tim Wakefield does not scare me.

      • pete

        1-5 i can see the edge going to Boston.
        6-8 i would give to Tampa Bay.
        1-11 is Yanks hands down.

        1-11 is what matters.

        • DP

          I give Boston the edge 2-3, maaybe, and that’s it.

          • pete

            i was just being polite

        • http://twitter.com/tsjc68 tommiesmithjohncarlos a/k/a Archimedes Torquemada

          Yeah, Tampa is also another forgotten good rotation. With all the quality depth they’ve got, they’ll probably plug any hole that develops and have 5 solidly above average starters in their rotation all year long no matter what.

          If Garza and Shields bounce back from their down years a bit, they’ll be right there. Neimann/Davis/Price/Hellickson/Sonnanstine is a quality back-end rotation corps.

          • pete

            This is a pretty decent sized if, but if Garza and Shields bounce back, and Price bounces forward, they could have two legit #1s in Price and Garza, and a terrific #2 in Shields. If your #4 and #5 are whoever pitches the best out of Hellickson/Davis/Neimann/Sonnanstine/McGee, you’ve got a chance to be pretty friggin scary. I don’t think 2010 is going to be their year, but they’ve got a pretty real shot at being a 100-win club in 2011.

            • pete

              forgot to add: and for a few years after that.

              If they hadn’t traded Kazmir away they’d have the best rotation in baseball this year, hands down, IMO.

      • DP

        He pitches the knuckleball so he can pitch effectively til he’s 75. Also he’s a consummate teammate and a loyal soldier of Red Sox Nation.

        This is Peter Gammsdargrhg……*drools* *passes out*

      • GG2000

        Tim Wakefield in his birthday suit … now THAT would scare me.

  • http://theyankeeu.com Matt Imbrogno

    Woo for no internship or classes tomorrow.

  • http://www.mystiqueandaura.com Steve H

    Another fun fact about Daniel Bard, besides being inferior to Joba and Hughes, he’s older than them both.

    • http://www.thechuckknoblog.com/ JobaWockeeZ

      Another fun fact about Daniel Bard, besides being inferior to Joba and Hughes every 2010 Yankee bullpen pitcher excluding Guadin and Mitre, he’s older than them both.

      Fixed.

      • http://twitter.com/tsjc68 tommiesmithjohncarlos a/k/a Archimedes Torquemada

        Chad Gaudin, NYY, 2009: 42.0 IP, 125 ERA+
        Daniel Bard, BOS, 2009: 49.1 IP, 128 ERA+

        Mitre might be the only one he’s actually better than.

        • http://www.thechuckknoblog.com/ JobaWockeeZ

          My mind…it is blown.

          Go ahead and make him your future closer Boston! Doesn’t help that he hasn’t pitched well in high pressure situations either.

          Man Bard is so overhyped by the media.

        • JGS

          Don’t count on that one again

          Bard FIP: 3.38
          Gaudin FIP: 4.16 (with NYY and SDP)

        • http://theyankeeu.com Matt Imbrogno

          In the words of Winston Wolf, let’s not all go sucking each others’ dicks just yet. Gaudin had a 3.43 ERA w/the Yankees despite having a WHIP of over 1.4 and a K/BB of under 2. Bard had a respectable 1.277 WHIP and a 2.86 K/BB (though he did walk 4.0 per nine). Bard also had a better FIP (3.35) than Gaudin (4.16) and a better tRA+ (StatCorner), 125, than Gaudin did in either SD (111) or NY (94).

          • http://twitter.com/tsjc68 tommiesmithjohncarlos a/k/a Archimedes Torquemada

            I did say “might”.

            I don’t think Gaudin will maintain that 125+ number over a larger sample.

            I’m also doubtful about Bard’s ability to hold up that 128+, though. He throws hard. He also throws straight. Let’s see how the league adjusts to him, and vice versa.

  • bexarama

    Today in “I enjoy laughing at this article in retrospect”:
    http://sports.espn.go.com/espn.....ortCat=mlb

    The first comment is gold, too:
    This is too funny. I called this one week ago. I said that A-ROID would struggle in this series and all the Yankee faithful got on me about how he is the GOAT and how he figured it out and how Philly’s pitching doesnt match up well against A-ROID. Who’s laughing now?
    A-Rod, 2009 WS, Games 1 and 2:
    0 for 8, 0 RBI, 0 BB, 6 K, .000/.000/.000/.000

    A-Rod, 2009 WS, Games 3, 4, 5, and 6:
    5 for 12, 1 HR, 3 2B, 6 RBI, 3 BB, 3 HBP, 2 K, 1 SB, .417/.611/.917/1.528

    A-Rod. That’s who’s laughing.

    • http://theyankeeu.com Matt Imbrogno

      I just hit a walk off w/A-Rod in The Show.

      • Rocky Road Redemption (formerly RAB poster)

        That’s nothing. I went through the 03′ playoffs (I have an old game and am too lazy too learn the new one) and won the WS with the 55 win Devil Rays. I beat the Angels, Yankees and Cardinals. I faced elimination six times and trailed in the 8th inning or later in 3 of those games, including game 7 of the ALCS, after being down 3 games to 1. I had the highest ERA of all playoff teams (6.75). But I won. It was EPIC.

        Oh wait, we were talking about A-Rod? He’s good too.

        /Geek’d

    • http://twitter.com/tsjc68 tommiesmithjohncarlos a/k/a Archimedes Torquemada

      ARod does not sleep.

      He waits.

      • Rocky Road Redemption (formerly RAB poster)

        Isn’t that a Chuck Norris joke?

        • http://twitter.com/tsjc68 tommiesmithjohncarlos a/k/a Archimedes Torquemada

          ARod has two speeds: Walk and Kill.

          • http://www.riveraveblues.com Mike Axisa

            A-Rod’s life is like one long Axe Body Spray commercial.

            • http://twitter.com/tsjc68 tommiesmithjohncarlos a/k/a Archimedes Torquemada

              Alex Rodriguez once at a 72-ounce steak in an hour. He spent the first 45 minutes having sex with his waitress.

              • http://www.riveraveblues.com Mike Axisa

                A-Rod hates Raymond.

                • http://twitter.com/tsjc68 tommiesmithjohncarlos a/k/a Archimedes Torquemada

                  When in a bar, you can order a drink called an “Alex Rodriguez”. It is also known as a “Bloody Mary”, if your name happens to be Mary.

                • http://www.riveraveblues.com Mike Axisa

                  A-Rod claims Hanley Ramirez on his taxes.

                • http://twitter.com/tsjc68 tommiesmithjohncarlos a/k/a Archimedes Torquemada

                  ARod sleeps with a pillow under his gun.

                • http://www.riveraveblues.com Mike Axisa

                  Kate Hudson is still recovering from the breakup sex.

                • http://twitter.com/tsjc68 tommiesmithjohncarlos a/k/a Archimedes Torquemada

                  Alex likes his coffee with half and half: Half gasoline, half hydrochloric acid.

                • http://www.riveraveblues.com Mike Axisa

                  A-Rod negotiated Vernon Wells’ contract.

                • http://twitter.com/tsjc68 tommiesmithjohncarlos a/k/a Archimedes Torquemada

                  ARod likes to have knife fights. The knife always loses.

                • Rocky Road Redemption (formerly RAB poster)

                  A-Rod counted to infinity…twice.

                • http://twitter.com/tsjc68 tommiesmithjohncarlos a/k/a Archimedes Torquemada

                  The US government has asked ARod not to go skydiving again. One Grand Canyon is enough.

                • Rocky Road Redemption (formerly RAB poster)

                  A-Rod knows where in the world Carmen Sandiego is.

                • http://i.cdn.turner.com/si/multimedia/photo_gallery/0902/mlb.alex.rodriguez.through.the.years/images/1993.alex-rodriguez.jpg Drew

                  A-Rod doesn’t have a bank account. He just tells the bank how much he needs.

                • Rocky Road Redemption (formerly RAB poster)

                  A-Rod can divide by zero.

                • http://twitter.com/tsjc68 tommiesmithjohncarlos a/k/a Archimedes Torquemada

                  On October 7th, 1916, the members of the Georgia Tech football team all came down with a nasty flu. Coach John Heisman asked Alex to play ironman football, all 11 positions, by himself.

                  The Engineers beat the Cumberland College Bulldogs that day.

                • http://i.cdn.turner.com/si/multimedia/photo_gallery/0902/mlb.alex.rodriguez.through.the.years/images/1993.alex-rodriguez.jpg Drew

                  Al can piss into gale force winds.

                • Rocky Road Redemption (formerly RAB poster)

                  A-Rod has a word for a person he puts into a coma; that word is “lucky”.

                • Accent Shallow

                  A-Rod is the Kwisatz Haderach

                • Rocky Road Redemption (formerly RAB poster)

                  The band Disturbed used to be called I’m Fine until they saw A-Rod.

                • http://www.riveraveblues.com Mike Axisa

                  A-Rod can carry Pi out to the millionth decimal place.

                • bexarama

                  If Superman and The Flash were to race to the edge of space you know who would win? Alex Rodriguez.

                • Rocky Road Redemption (formerly RAB poster)

                  Better, A-Rod FINISHED Pi.

                • Tom Zig

                  A-rod’s first son was born on November 25, 1980…he named him Nick Swisher.

                • WIlliam

                  Arod has to hold back in order to make baseball more competetive.

          • JGS

            I prefer “kill” and “don’t kill”

            http://4.bp.blogspot.com/_t9pl.....+Robot.jpg

      • http://theyankeeu.com Matt Imbrogno

        Nails messes with Texas.

    • http://www.riveraveblues.com Mike Axisa

      Because Ryan Howard was teh awesome that whole series.

  • http://janeheller.mlblogs.com/yank_c.jpg T-Dubs

    Thought this was interesting:

    http://deadspin.com/5414631/bu.....ospecticus

    Makes me wonder what the lasting legacy of Selig will be.

    • bexarama

      Two days after the thrilling and inspiring 2001 World Series

      If by “inspiring” you mean “inspiring me to throw my shoe at the wall after Game 7,” then sure.

      I really do not like Selig, but…
      Helped to write the hagiographies of Mark McGwire, Sammy Sosa and Barry Bonds. Perhaps they should have been fact checked first.
      They were very good players who accomplished pretty awesome things. What was he supposed to say, “We are seeing baseball history but these guys might be on steroids so don’t count it”?

      Made sure October baseball regularly ends in November.
      Twice, and the first time was due to a national tragedy. This year, yeah there was no excuse.

      Saw other sports praised for their parity; oversaw an uncapped league where one team regularly spends six times as much as others.
      Sigh.

      • JGS

        for all the heartbreak at the way it ended, the 2001 Series was the greatest Series I can remember (just too young to remember 1991) and I have a hard time thinking anything will even come close

        • bexarama

          Yeah, I agree 100% and I know what they meant. It was so difficult to lose that, but I knew, even at the time, I’d seen one of the greatest World Series ever.

        • Rocky Road Redemption (formerly RAB poster)

          2001 was great, but I remember 1991. That one was definitely better, no doubt. Game six was better than game 7.

          I could see other series matching it. Baseball is gonna be played for a LOOONG time. Weird shit happens.

          • http://twitter.com/tsjc68 tommiesmithjohncarlos a/k/a Archimedes Torquemada

            Jack Morris was the balls in that game. We should put him in the Hall of Fame because of it.

            Sincerely,
            The BBWAA

            • Rocky Road Redemption (formerly RAB poster)

              Pettite outpitched Smoltz too, 1-0 in the WS, with the Yankees trailing 3 games to 2. Must win game.

              Therefore, Pettite=HOF’er.

              • JGS

                That was Game 5. The series was tied 2-2

                • http://twitter.com/tsjc68 tommiesmithjohncarlos a/k/a Archimedes Torquemada

                  Otter: Germans?
                  Boon: Forget it, he’s rolling.

                • Rocky Road Redemption (formerly RAB poster)

                  My bad. But if we lost we WOULD have been trailing 3 games to 2. It was stil a must win, just not in the absolute greatest sense of the word.

              • bexarama

                I’m gonna be so sad when five years after Pettitte retires, people start writing dumb articles about how he should be in the HOF, like how people write dumb articles about Jack Morris going to the HOF now. Because (unless he sticks around for like three/four more years and is ridiculously awesome during those years) he really shouldn’t be, but it breaks my heart to have to say slightly mean things about Andy. :(

                • http://theyankeeu.com Matt Imbrogno

                  Don’t worry; no matter where you are at that point, you’ll be hearing me beating the Jorge-to-the-HOF drum very loudly.

                • http://twitter.com/tsjc68 tommiesmithjohncarlos a/k/a Archimedes Torquemada

                  you’ll be hearing me beating the Jorge-to-the-HOF drum very loudly.

                  You’ll go blind.

                • bexarama

                  I won’t hear you over me beating that drum even louder. ;)

                • JGS

                  Pettitte never seems to have picked up the “he pitches to the score” label like Morris did, despite being the winningest pitcher of the 00s (as Morris was for the 80s)

                  Posada’s HOF case >>>>>>> Pettitte’s HOF case

                • http://theyankeeu.com Matt Imbrogno

                  Worth it.

    • http://twitter.com/tsjc68 tommiesmithjohncarlos a/k/a Archimedes Torquemada

      Makes me wonder what the lasting legacy of Selig will be.

      Ugly drab brown tweed suits?

      • http://janeheller.mlblogs.com/yank_c.jpg T-Dubs

        Wild Card Playoffs, Instant Replay (however limited), etc.

        • http://twitter.com/tsjc68 tommiesmithjohncarlos a/k/a Archimedes Torquemada

          Conspiring with Carl Polhad to nearly assassinate the Expos and Twins, bungling the expansion agreements and subsequently offering up his own team as a sacrifice in switching to the less profitable league, the ridiculous All-Star Game home field advantage scenario, etc.

    • Accent Shallow

      Doing what multiple wars and national crises couldn’t, and canceling the World Series?
      Funneling money to scumbags like Jeffrey Loria?
      Threatening contraction on viable franchises like the Twins?
      Running the Brewers like a family restaurant?
      Spiderman bases?
      Acting as an advocate for the owners, rather than the best interests of the game?

      What else? His statue’s only fit for pissing on — or worse.

  • http://www.thechuckknoblog.com/ JobaWockeeZ

    Remember last year who had the absolutely greatest rotation in the history of mankind for the postseason?

    http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/.....ings090924

    • bexarama

      So while Beckett may have lost a little feel for the breaking ball, would you bet against him in October? “There’s something inside that guy,” said the same exec. “When the big lights go on, he likes being out there.”

      Him getting outpitched by Jeff freaking Weaver was absolutely delicious.

      • JGS

        Jered. Not quite as sweet, but still awesome

        • bexarama

          My bad, I did know it was the one that wasn’t on the Yankees but I messed up his name. Seriously though, after hearing about how Boston’s rotation was ACES WILD and the Angels didn’t have one #1 guy, just a bunch of #3s for about a month prior to the playoffs, it was freaking awesome to see the Red Sox score a whopping one run in eighteen innings while they were in Anaheim.

        • http://theyankeeu.com Matt Imbrogno
      • pete

        well, to be fair, he didn’t say he was always good in those spots. just that he likes being out there. and since the game is all about having fun, that’s what really matters.

        • JGS

          Look, he was excellent in the 2003 playoffs and downright Sabathian in 2007, hence his reputation

          since then? a 7.71 ERA, 1.619 WHIP and opposing OPS of 1.015

          • bexarama

            Look, he was excellentthrew a complete game shutout against the Yankees in the 2003 playoffs and downright Sabathian was on the Red Sox in 2007, hence his reputation

            (Not arguing they weren’t crazy dominant performances that he should get a lot of credit for, but if he’d done what he did against the Twins in the World Series, he wouldn’t have this GREATEST POSTSEASON PITCHAH EVAHHHH reputation. It happened to Randy Johnson, it happened to Curt Schilling, it happened to Cliff Lee.)

            • JGS

              I think Beckett would have–a lot of guys have had great postseason runs and subsequently been eh (see Hamels, Cole) but once you have two dominating postseasons you get that reputation (Schilling, Beckett, never noticed that Johnson had a special October rep, he was always just scary good)

              and Lee was that good, it wasn’t just doing it to the Yankees. He (briefly) took the postseason ERA record from Mo before the Yanks touched him up in Game 5

              • bexarama

                Fair enough, and I saw Lee be completely ridiculous in the other rounds. That game he pitched against the Dodgers, Jesus.

                Funny that they kept talking about how bad Damon had been career-wise vs. Lee, though, because Jeter, Tex, A-Rod, and Posada were sporting, respectively, a .985, 1.157, 1.183, and .939 OPS against him in 30, 26, 20, and 22 PA. Obviously no one was touching him in Game 1 of the WS, though (except sort of Jeter).

      • Accent Shallow

        Beckett: just like sabermetricians have blind spots, so do scouts. I remember a poll of scouts in ’07/’08 that asked who the best pitcher in baseball was — Beckett got a plurality, which is just wild. Best stuff, maybe, but best pitcher? Not a damn chance. The man has had one (1) Cy Young worthy season ever.

    • JGS

      Buchholz, […] and who has been so good that the Red Sox haven’t lost a game he started since Aug. 13 (eight starts ago)

      that included a 4.2-inning-7-run bed-shitting that the Sox won 12-8

      • Zack

        just shows he knows how to the score

  • pat

    Does anybody know.. did they play a new Lost from 8-9? Or was it an old one?

    • http://iheartrerun.com/wordpress/wp-content/uploads/2009/02/rerun.jpg The Honorable Congressman Mondesi

      It was the second half of last week’s 2-hour premier, with the explanations on the bottom of the screen. Seems like they’re going to do that all season (re-play the last week’s episode with the little explanation thingies).

  • http://www.puristbleedspinstripes.com Rebecca-Optimist Prime (Optimovelist Primus)

    I’M GOING TO SPRING TRAINING

    • http://twitter.com/tsjc68 tommiesmithjohncarlos a/k/a Archimedes Torquemada

      Do me a favor: Call David Winfree “Oprah” all camp long.

  • pat

    HOLY SHIT, IT’S MAC!!!!!!!

    • http://theyankeeu.com Matt Imbrogno

      This post

      ——-

      My head

    • http://janeheller.mlblogs.com/yank_c.jpg T-Dubs

      I had the exact same reaction

    • AndrewYF

      What’s this about?

    • http://iheartrerun.com/wordpress/wp-content/uploads/2009/02/rerun.jpg The Honorable Congressman Mondesi

      Ha, we were freaking out when Mac showed up again. It’s been so long since he was on the show, it’s so cool that they brought him back.

      I kinda love that they made Aldo act just like Mac from Sunny, too.

  • pat

    CLAIRE, AHHHHHH!!!!

    • http://www.facebook.com/pages/Bring-Melvin-To-America/193013541601?ref=sgm Andy In Sunny Daytona

      Rousseau was evil!!!!

      • http://iheartrerun.com/wordpress/wp-content/uploads/2009/02/rerun.jpg The Honorable Congressman Mondesi

        Hold on… I might just be retarded, but do we really know that Rousseau was “infected” or whatever? Did I miss something? I get that Claire is like the new Rousseau and the Others think Claire is infected, but that doesn’t mean Rousseau was infected.

  • belg

    Scary lineup.

    (r)Bartlett
    (l)Crawford
    (r)Longoria
    (l)Pena
    (s)Zobrist
    (r)Upton
    (s)Navarro
    (r)Jennings

    • pistol pete

      Scary, whose scared of the rays, please.

      • http://www.mystiqueandaura.com Steve H

        What if they sign teh Damon!!11!!

    • WIlliam

      Crawford, Longoria, and everyone else.

    • http://www.mystiqueandaura.com Steve H

      That lineup needs a few Jim Rice’s and Bernie Williams’ before I’m scared.

    • Zack

      Bartlett = not as scary when his BABIP drops down to his average range
      Crawford = fast, not scary
      Longoria = scary
      Pena = scary when he connects, too bad that isnt often
      Zobrist = scary if he keeps it up
      Upton = scary in 2007, not the last 2 seasons
      Navarro = you know he was an all star? /kay’d. (not scary) And Shoppach is probably their every day guy now
      Jennings = potential to be scary yes

    • http://i.cdn.turner.com/si/multimedia/photo_gallery/0902/mlb.alex.rodriguez.through.the.years/images/1993.alex-rodriguez.jpg Drew

      I’m sorry. Yeah, it’s a solid lineup. It’s not scary. If Ben Zobrist repeats last year’s numbers I’ll eat my computer.

    • pete

      their rotation is a wee bit scary, and will be scarier in the next few years. Their lineup is not bad, but it’s far from scary. At this point, Longo’s their only really complete offensive player.

  • belg

    Rodriguez, Teix and everyone else.

    -.-

    • Tom Zig

      use the reply button

    • pete

      Position by position offensive breakdown:

      C: Posada >>>> Navarro
      1B: Teixeira >> Pena
      2B: Cano > Zobrist (longer track record)
      SS: Jeter >>> Zobrist
      3B: A-Rod > Longoria
      LF: Crawford >>> Yanks’ combo
      CF: Granderson > Upton (upton’s got crazy potential, but has yet to really put it all together)
      RF: Swisher > Jennings (offensively, quite possibly not for long)
      DH: Johnson >> Burrell

      yeeeeaaa

    • bexarama

      Derek Jeter, Jorge Posada, Robinson Cano, Curtis Granderson, Nick Johnson, Nick Swisher = suck, obvs.

  • bexarama

    What’s the best advanced defensive stats available from prior to 2002, when UZR got introduced?

  • Manimal

    Vazquez with a 4.7 WAR is a joke… he was NOT the second best pitcher of all of those put into the charts.

    • pete

      well his numbers were probably a tad inflated due to the league switch. Still, I wouldn’t be surprised at all if he turns out to be the Yanks’ 2nd best pitcher next year. I don’t expect him to be much better than Burnett, if at all, but he’ll definitely be better than Andy at this point, and there’s no guarantee that Joba will pitch better than Javy does in 2010.

  • Big Juan

    Fantasy baseball — 5×5 roto league: what would you use?

    I don’t want the regular stats this year. I’m most likely subbing quality starts for wins and OPS for AVG.

  • Matt

    No Seattle?