Mar
24

Open Thread: Back to the Stone Age

By

The Yankees are playing the Nationals tonight, but the game isn’t televised so we’re stuck in the dark. This reminds me of the days when watching Spring Training games on TV was nothing more than a pipe dream. Pretty crazy how far we’ve come. In case you’re wondering, Javy Vazquez is on the bump, and Joe Girardi is trotting the A+ lineup out there. I like the looks of that.

If you’re watching on MLB.tv, then go ahead and talk about the game here. If not, then use this sucker as an open thread. The Rangers play the Islanders in a game that means nothing since both teams have been all but eliminated from playoff contention, and then you’ve got the 7-63 Nets on YES. Enjoy the thread.

Photo Credit: Gene J. Puskar, AP

Categories : Open Thread

331 Comments»

  1. Jose says:

    Anyone found any good bridges to jump off after the unconfirmed reports on Hughes? I’m panicking here; I can never trust the front office ever again. We need Big George back, he would set everything straight.

  2. Riddering says:

    “Ellsbury’s talents appears to be without limits” according the MLB.com’s front page.

    That’s nice, dears.

  3. JobaWockeeZ says:

    I missed the Hughes thread so I’ll post my thoughts here. I honestly don’t know what to make of it. Sherman’s got his sources sure but there wasn’t any concrete evidence in that article. No quotes from anyone.

    Every media person has been saying this since ST began. So I’m hoping it’s just another assumption.

    If this is true then I lost some faith in the FO right now. But nothing’s confirmed so we’ll wait and see.

    • Dirty Pena says:

      I missed the Hughes thread

      Lucky you. Stay far far away. But I agree, until a legit reporter as opposed to noted rumor monger Alfred E. Neuman reports this, I’m holding my breath

    • Fun fact:

      Joel Sherman wrote 680 words about the fifth starter competition. The only mention of Joba came 427 words into the article, when he said (after his “That screams Hughes in the rotation coup-de-grace):

      That puts Joba Chamberlain into the eighth inning,

      That’s it. That one single eight-word half-sentence. That’s the totality of the Joba Chamberlain discussion in the entire piece.

      He mentioned “Mitre” 8 times and “Aceves” 10 times. I’m not making that up. He also said:

      The Yanks saw positives out of likely Triple-A rotation members Ivan Nova, Romulo Sanchez, Dustin Moseley and Jason Hirsh, but would turn first to Aceves or Mitre should there be a rotation injury or stumble.

      What does all this mean? It means that Joel Sherman is an idiot.

      You can’t write a 680 word article about the 5th starter competition and make Joba Chamberlain a total afterthought and non-entity. Even if he IS a total afterthought and non-entity, it’s your job as a reporter to outline HOW and WHY he’s an afterthought and non-entity, because he SHOULDN’T be a total afterthought and non-entity.

      • bexarama says:

        I also found something from his Twitter where he thought Albaladejo would get DFAd because the Yankee brass loved Edwar’s change-up. So… dude’s not always right.

        Too bad because I loooove Birth of a Dynasty and now I’m gonna associate him with this whole thing. Urgh.

        • Riddering says:

          He’s good at writing the story of a ballclub long since past. Just not so much at analyzing the present and future of a ballclub today.

  4. Dirty Pena says:

    How do you know the Nationals suck? Willy Tavares is the front runner to start for them in LF!

  5. bexarama says:

    That Hughes/Sherman post and the comments… man, I gotta say, it made me like borderline depressed. Like, I was eating dinner, and I was like, “I kind of want to stab myself in the hand with this fork* and/or not care about the Yankees so much.”

    If Hughes gets named the fifth starter whenever they announce it, I’m gonna be flat-out upset over it. It seems so silly to say I’ll be really upset over a talented, young first-round pick going into the rotation, but I will be. It made me upset about stuff that happened last year – a year when we won the World Series and dominated baseball pretty thoroughly. And it made me worried that resigning my all-time favorite Yankee for one more year might be a move that ruins the Yankees for years to come.

    So… someone should post pictures of kittens and puppies or something and convince me things aren’t awful.

    * not seriously.

  6. http://sports.espn.go.com/nfl/.....id=5023906

    Eagles are going to deal one, possibly two of their three starting-caliber quarterbacks.

    My prediction: McNabb to the 49ers for a 2nd rounder (#49) and a 4th rounder (#113), possibly also a swap of 3rd rounders (an 8-pick swing from #87 to #79). Vick to the Bills for a 5th rounder.

    They roll with Kolb for 2010 and draft a developmental QB on day three (like, say, Jarrett Brown from WVU).

    • Billy Shears says:

      “Eagles are going to deal one, possibly two of their three starting-caliber quarterbacks.”

      You’re not counting Vick are you? That is laughable.

      • Michael Vick is a starting caliber QB. You and I may not agree with it, but it’s true. There’s 32 starting QB’s in the league right now, and there’s not 32 QB’s in the league better than Vick.

        If the Eagles trade Vick to the Bills, you don’t think he could beat out Trent Edwards and Brian Brohm? Absolutely he could. If they trade him to the Rams, he wouldn’t beat out Keith Null and babysit the position for a year until Sam Bradford was ready? Absolutely he would.

    • Accent Shallow says:

      I really really want Kevin Kolb to fail, since McNabb is a lot like Burrell/Abreu: a good player who was never embraced by the worst fans in sports.

  7. Johan Iz My Brohan says:

    Rangers please tank already, you are not that far from getting a possible top 3 pick in the draft. Please at least try to draft Tyler Seguin if you can.

  8. Salty Buggah says:

    Javy Vazquez = K Machine

  9. Do Not Feed The Trolls! says:

    If they do relegate Joba to the pen for the rest of his career. I hope he doesn’t resign with the Yanks(when he hits FA) and dominates as a starter on another team.

    • If they relegate him, it’s Righetti part two.

      • Accent Shallow says:

        Slightly disagree — Joba doesn’t have Righetti’s track record.

        It’s a mistake of the same or greater magnitude, though.

    • Zack says:

      If they send him there he’s going to lose a shit load in arbitation.

      Instead of being a starter, he’s going to be a reliever gaining 5 saves max a year over the next 3 years. (Assuming he’d lose if his agent went in trying to compare him to Papelbon if he isnt bringing in 35+ saves)

  10. http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/.....id=5025391

    If I was a musician, I’d be Kanye West. If I was in the NBA, I’d be Ron Artest. In baseball, they’ve got Milton Bradley. I’m that guy. You need people like me, so you can point your finger and go, “There goes the bad guy.”

    Sincerely,
    Alpa Chino Milton Bradley

    • Riddering says:

      Oh my god, we *created* the monster!

      /blown away

    • Mike HC says:

      Wow. Is this guy delusional or what. He isn’t even as good as the head cases he names in game or attitude. I would take Kanye West crazy and Artest crazy over Milton Bradley crazy any day, not even considering talent level.

    • Hughesus Christo says:

      “What you lookin’ at? You all a bunch of ——’ assholes. You know why? You don’t have the guts to be what you wanna be? You need people like me. You need people like me so you can point your ——’ fingers and say, “That’s the bad guy.” So… what that make you? Good? You’re not good. You just know how to hide, how to lie. Me, I don’t have that problem. Me, I always tell the truth. Even when I lie. So say good night to the bad guy! Come on. The last time you gonna see a bad guy like this again, let me tell you. Come on. Make way for the bad guy. There’s a bad guy comin’ through! Better get outta his way!”

  11. Does everyone know about the Dwight Gooden arrest thing? I’ve been away from my computer all day…

  12. Hughesus Christo says:

    I can’t help myself. 10 Teams. 10 Cats. H2H:

    C- Mauer
    1B – AGon
    2B – Zobrist
    SS – Rollins
    3B – Beckham
    2B/SS – Escobar
    1B/3B – I. Stewart
    OF – CGrand
    OF – McCutchen
    OF – Manny
    OF – Fowler
    OF – Blanks
    BN – S. Rodriguez
    P – Doc
    P – Ubaldo
    P – Kershaw
    P – Peavy
    P – Harden
    P – Hudson
    P – Hughes
    P – Rauch
    P – M. Gonzalez
    P – Capps
    P – Lidge

    OF sucks, drafted a bunch of crappy RPs right at the end. Two of those Ps are bench spots. Bash away.

  13. bexarama says:

    Oh my God Livan Hernandez is pitching for the Nats???? (I don’t have MLB.tv) That makes me feel slightly better because it is hilarious.

  14. Shane D says:

    Sitting front row in the party deck fellas. I’ll throw one back for everybody

  15. Jose says:

    Javy facing the minimum 12 batters through 4. Me likey.

  16. Salty Buggah says:

    Hey guys, I posted a homework question in the off-topic thread for my Business Law and Ethics class. I would appreciate any help as I am completely uninformed about legal stuff/HTC.

    http://riveraveblues.com/off-t.....ent-811948

    • Renny Baseball says:

      The answer begins with the Commerce Clause of the Constitution.

      I agree with the poster who posted this link, there is stuff in the bottom of the article that is helpful to your argument that you can use:

      http://tpmmuckraker.talkingpoi.....reform.php

      Also, use logic/reasoning as to why requiring people buy insurance rather than letting them get buy without it would be a burden on interstate commerce.

  17. Meat Loaf says:

    I know it was late last night, but can we make sure people like http://riveraveblues.com/2010/.....ent-810882 get a ban? It touched a nerve.

  18. So my car broke down on my way to class earlier. Sigh.

  19. billbybob says:

    How do I get on an Obama death panel?

  20. Hey ZZ says:

    Ya know what is the worst part of the whole Joba is probably going to the bullpen thing:

    If Joba starts in AAA and comes up when a starter inevitably gets hurt or even if Joba comes up for a few spot starts when a minor injury happens and stays stretched out in the bullpen for the next minor injury, will have more value to the Yankees over the course of the season than pitching in the 8th inning for the whole season.

    • You’re probably right.

      Whomever our designated 6th starter is on Opening Day will in all likelihood pitch at least 80 innings in the bigs this year, probably much more. These things happen every year like clockwork.

      The 6th starter (even spending part of the year in AAA) >>>>>>> the 8th inning guy

      • Hey ZZ says:

        Rotations are not 5 men deep anymore. It is simply not the reality. No team gets through the season with 5 starters. You have to be at the very least 6 men deep. If Cashman is not planning to use 6-7 starters this year he is not planning accordingly.

        And, if the Rays have a bounce back year and are the 90+ win team they should be, starts from Sergio Mitre or Zach McAllister is simply not going to cut it and could cost the Yankees the division.

        Not to mention what none of the Hughes lovers are addressing is, what if he is ineffective or pitching poorly come the ASB. Everyone was sure Joba would be good in the rotation last year, but there was a time last year he probably should have been sent down to AAA. Even if Hughes is effective in the beginning, what if he fatigues at 110, 120, 130 innings. The guy’s innings high is from 4 years ago. He could very easily tire early in the season. You have Hughes like that and an injury and suddenly you have Mitre and someone like McAllister in the rotation trying to get into the playoffs.

        • Not to mention what none of the Hughes lovers are addressing is, what if he is ineffective or pitching poorly come the ASB. Everyone was sure Joba would be good in the rotation last year, but there was a time last year he probably should have been sent down to AAA. Even if Hughes is effective in the beginning, what if he fatigues at 110, 120, 130 innings. The guy’s innings high is from 4 years ago. He could very easily tire early in the season. You have Hughes like that and an injury and suddenly you have Mitre and someone like McAllister in the rotation trying to get into the playoffs.

          Hey ZZ with teh TRUTHBOMB.

          +1.

  21. Ivan says:

    Look on the bright side guys, at least we have one high ceiling pitcher in the rotation, even if it’s not the guy who we thought it was in concern with Joba. And besides, how many teams or fans can argue and debate about a situation like the yanks have with Joba and Hughes?…none exactly.

    Nevertheless, at the end of the day whether Hughes win the job or Joba does, I still think the “loser” should go to scranton and build innings and become the 6th starter/main back up pitcher.

    • Nevertheless, at the end of the day whether Hughes win the job or Joba does, I still think the “loser” should go to scranton and build innings and become the 6th starter/main back up pitcher.

      That.

      Signing Andy and trading for Javy gave us enviable depth and flexibility. Moving the loser of the 5th starter competition to the bullpen would waste that depth and flexibility.

      It’s nonsensical.

  22. T-Dubs says:

    Wow, Axisa. Jerry Crasnick is following you on the Tweeter?

  23. Drew says:

    Al with a triple! He hit an oppo bomb and hit the top of the wall.

    • bexarama says:

      Cano popped up with a guy on third. OMG putting him in the five spot was such a terrible move!!!

      Actual comment spotted today: “This lineup sucks.”
      We may all be upset if Joba goes to the pen this year, but at least no one will be that dumb.

    • bexarama says:

      also, who scored on that triple? NJ. OMG HE’S TOO SLOW FOR THE 2-HOLE!!! (twss)

  24. Drew says:

    I hope YES unveils a K-zone this season. Even the damn Nats have one.

  25. E Street Shuffle says:

    The nationals have just become my second favorite team. More importantly Nyjer Morgan is my new favorite player….he uses Too $hort as his walk up music. Me like

  26. WIlliam says:

    Javy is pitching a perfect game, sorta.

  27. Dirty Pena says:

    Jeez, this game is going to be over by 9 at this rate.

  28. http://www.silive.com/jets/ind.....nocks.html

    Tommie: very, very aroused.

    BTW, I mailed a helmet, a football, and a t-shirt to Sanchize and he happily signed them all and mailed them back to me. He threw in a signed rookie card as well.

    </joyed>

  29. Bryan Hoch of MLB.com says the Yankees haven’t made any decision on the 5th starter. This shocks me. I’d almost certainly trust the uncorroborated word of Joel Sherman over someone like Bryan Hoch. I mean come on, that guy practically writes for the National Enquirer. HAHAHAHA. Hoch said Girardi will probably announce on Friday. But we all know it’s Hughes. I mean, duh.

    http://bit.ly/amj47B

    • Girardi said that with five pitchers vying for one spot, there will be odd men out, but whoever begins the season in the bullpen or the Minors would not necessarily stay there all season.

      This, I like. I have doubts, however. Hughes was sent to the bullpen last year, and stayed there (even when there was pressing need and great opportunity to move him back).

      • JobaWockeeZ says:

        I agree. I’d rather have the loser go to AAA because we’ll know for a fact they will be the 6th starter when he’s needed. If he’s in the bullpen then it’s no guarantee the loser will start again in 2010.

      • Yeah, I’m sure we’ve chatted about this a few times but Girardi enjoys the stability of having a Hughes or Joba in the ‘pen, and given that they’ll probably be in the hunt for the pennant, he’ll lobby hard for one of them to be there.

        In doing so he sort of shoots himself in the foot in the long-term (I think, presuming he’s there of course). To Joba, it would impede the great progress he made in having no innings limits and getting a better feel for going through the lineup multiple times. For Hughes, he’s now four years removed from his innings high. This is a guy that needs to work on another off-speed pitch to complement his fb, curve and cutter.

        I’m not saying neither could join the rotation in 2011 and do well, but one more year of not having them starting incrementally decreases the chance they’ll be successful.

        • I’m not saying neither could join the rotation in 2011 and do well, but one more year of not having them starting incrementally decreases the chance they’ll be successful.

          That. In order for them to be good starting pitchers, they need to be starting pitchers. Being bullpen pitchers cannot fully prepare them to be starters.

          And we don’t need them in the bullpen. We just don’t. Some people want to act like we do, but we don’t. They’re a luxury in the bullpen, not a necessity. Robertson/Aceves/Marte/Park/Melancon can handle their high-leverage innings bullpen job just fine.

  30. WIlliam says:

    The announcers are talking about Pudge’s “entertaining offense”. If they mean entertainingly bad, mayber.

  31. Hey ZZ says:

    How long would Joba have to stay in the minors for his FA clock to be pushed back a year?

  32. Steve H says:

    Hughes was cut in my fantasy league today. Guess someone doesn’t follow Sherman…………..

  33. http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/.....id=5024611

    For all of the talk about tightening the postseason, Major League Baseball made only one slight change this year and held off on major revisions.

    The awkward off-day between Games 4 and 5 of the league championship series, among those Los Angeles Angels manager Mike Scioscia griped about last October, will be eliminated. Instead, there will be yet another off-day between the division series and the start of the LCS, the commissioner’s office said Wednesday.

    The overall length of the postseason will not be shortened and the first round will remain best-of-five at least through 2011.

    Barring rainouts, this year’s switch will make it more difficult for a team to get through the best-of-seven LCS with only three starting pitchers, as the New York Yankees did last year en route to the World Series title.

    I’m both happy and sad about this.

    Happy that the off-day was removed from the LCS, but not happy that the off-day wasn’t eliminated entirely.

    Oh, and NESPN, the blurb about making the Yankees path to the World Series harder: so 2009. We have 6 legit starting pitchers now.

    Suck on it, baseball.

    • Oh, and:

      The off-day was among four baseball added because Fox Sports wanted the World Series to open on a Wednesday rather than a Saturday, usually the lowest-rated night of the week. Other off-days were inserted in 2007 between the regular season and the postseason openers, between Games 4 and 5 of the division series and between the LCS and World Series.

      Memo to Fox: You’ll have higher ratings if you eliminate off days, because you’ll have fewer casual fans who lose interest over a protracted game schedule. Stack the games on back to back nights, eliminate as many off days as possible, and make it a pressure-packed drama-fest that happens every night.

      More drama in a smaller window of time = greater fan interest and involvement.

    • kunaldo says:

      “Oh, and NESPN, the blurb about making the Yankees path to the World Series harder: so 2009. We have 6 legit starting pitchers now.

      Suck on it, baseball.”

      Ditto.

    • Jose says:

      Yeah don’t move the off-day to somewhere else, just get rid of it.

      My hope this year is we face the Angels again in the ALCS and Mike Scioscia throws someone out there for Game 5 and we crush him, while our guy dominates. We then proceed to celebrate the pennant and eventually go pussy-tubing. Scioscia proceeds to complain about something else.

    • bexarama says:

      he overall length of the postseason will not be shortened

      This I didn’t see. So is there gonna be like an extra day between some of the rounds? Weren’t the Yankees and Angels off like Sunday through Friday before the ALCS because they both swept the ALDS?

      As I said over on the Open Thread, it’s good that they took out the awkward off day. I don’t really care so much about that. However, it’s annoying that they did it immediately after the Yankees won the World Series and Scioscia complained about it giving them an advantage. It’s like all the “we need realignment omg” articles that have popped up recently.

  34. Steve H says:

    Greg (LA)

    How many guys take college over a check because they really want college? Isn’t it always in the team’s best interest at the end of the day to offer more money? Did Cole really want the UCLA experience? Couldn’t the Yankees just have offered him more money?

    Jim Callis

    Cole really did want the UCLA experience. The Yankees obviously could have met any asking price and were prepared to do so. I think he would have been more open to signing at the beginning of the summer, but MLB doesn’t want above-slot deals going down before the Aug. 15 deadline. The longer he waited, the more Cole got interested in college. Same thing happened to the Yankees and Mark Prior years ago.

    Interesting take from Callis. If MLB didn’t essentially mandate that above slot deals have to wait, they had a better chance of signing Cole. Damn MLB, out to screw the Yankees, just like the scouts and the projection systems.

  35. Accent Shallow says:

    Did anyone have a chance to read this?

    Mo is still the leader, but he’s now at 151 instead of 200something.

    This bums me out, but apparently the change is more accurate.

  36. http://247wallst.com/2010/03/2.....n-america/

    With or without food……with or without food….

  37. WIlliam says:

    Cervelli playing 3rd

    /Head explodes

  38. Will says:

    Just wanted to throw this out there since I’m watching the game on MASN down here at school… Bruney has the most awesome beard. He’s one of the few players who look better with facial hair.

    (Melky and NJ look terrible with facial hair IMO)

    • bexarama says:

      Melky has a douchey chin strap (but doesn’t really look any different to me) and Nick Johnson had a horrible mustache (looks muuuuch better without it).

      Did anyone else see ESPN making fun of Melky today? Poor Melkman.

  39. Steve H says:

    In 2002 and 2003 Pedro led the league in ERA, ERA+, WIN%, WHIP, H/9 and K/9 and didn’t win either CY. Admittedly he only made 29 and 30 starts, but simply put he pitched better than anyone else in the league those two years. He also led the league in other categories in either year, just not both. This just in, Pedro Martinez is good at baseball.

    • Jose says:

      But how many wins did he have? Steve you left off the stat that determined the Cy Young winners those two years.

      • Steve H says:

        He had less wins than Esteban Loaiza, and therefore the BBWAA determined that Loaiza was a better pitcher than Pedro in 2003.

      • bexarama says:

        Pedro pitched 186.2 innings in 2003 in a year when the winner pitched 266. Halladay was worth more WAR (though only slightly, and he didn’t lead Pedro in VORP). It’s a tough call, they both had really good years.

        Not really sure how Pettitte got votes, I suspect people were seduced by the magical 20-win total

        • Jose says:

          True, you have to find the intersection point of how well they pitched in addition to number of innings.

        • Steve H says:

          Yeah, I do agree Pedro shouldn’t have won it that year. But the loss to Zito is just bullshit.

          • bexarama says:

            Barry Zito’s K/BB in 2002: 2.33 (not bad)
            Pedro Martinez’ K/BB in 2002: 5.98 (totally ridonkulous)
            Obviously you have to look at other things, but the other things all support Pedro, pretty much.

            Pedro led him in WAR by quite a bit too (Zito was 11th in pitcher WAR that year), though VORP gives Zito the advantage.

    • bexarama says:

      As a Yankee fan, I want him to retire right now. Amazing pitcher, maybe the best all time. We’ll be talking about him for years to come. Doubtless first-ballot Hall of Famer. Absolutely ripped apart by the Yankees in his last start ever.

      • Jose says:

        I definitely wouldn’t say best ever. His body basically held up decently until he was 33. Some of the top tier pitchers with better longevity are better. If you are talking best peak ever, then that is a different discussion.

        • Steve H says:

          He should have retired at 31, ala Koufax (at 30).

          Pedro thru 31
          166-67 2.58 ERA, 143 ERA+

          Koufax thru 30
          165-87, 2.76 ERA, 124 ERA+

          It absolutely stuns me that Pedro, pitching in hitters era in a hitters park (primarily) still had a better raw ERA than Koufax. Even if you back out Pedro’s age 31 season, since Koufax didn’t have one, he still comes out on top.

          • Steve H says:

            He also had a better HR rate than Koufax. That is mind-blowing considering their respective surroundings.

          • Pedro was a better pitcher. Kofax was a 2-pitch Pitcher who had a great fastball and curve, plus he was a Lefty. Pedro had a great fastball, change, curve and an above average slider. And for a guy with great raw stuff, he was also off the charts in Baseball IQ. You just can’t be much better than Pedro was in his prime. Almost flawless.

            • Accent Shallow says:

              I think you have to give Koufax some credit for durability. Over five year peaks (1961-1966, 1997-2002), Koufax has 223 games and 1632 IP. Pedro has 172 and 1221. That’s a lot of value to make up.

            • Steve H says:

              Completely agree. I just hope that when Pedro hangs it up, people don’t look at his career numbers and say Koufax was better because his rate stats may end up better. Koufax never had to deal with aging.

    • Pedro’s peak is probably the best peak of any pitcher ever.

  40. matt damon wayans says:

    MLBTR says the Texas Rangers are looking for a utility infielder. Anyone think we could send Ramiro Pena, or better yet, Kevin Russo, for Martin Perez or maybe a Justin Smoak-type bat?

  41. I don’t have a huge problem with them choosing Hughes over Joba, but then again I was always agnostic on the Joba start/reliever debate. I thought both sides went way overboard with their positions.

    That being said, the process at which the Yanks arrived at this decision (if true) bugs me. Joba had the flu his first start, was still weak the next, then put up two good outings and showed the efficiency the Yanks were looking for. Did Joba ever really have a chance? The first two starts weren’t supposed to count anyway, they were all just rounding into shape.

    The whole point of making a decision in Spring Training is that you have a few candidates who are very close in all areas and only one spot. So you let them fight it out and one of them win. Not based on stats, but on how they’re throwing the ball. I seems to me like that happened here with Phil, but not Joba.

  42. bexarama says:

    the Nats announcer apparently said Mo could close in the eighth.

    We all know what this means.

  43. Steve H says:

    Pedro’s B-ref page is just full of mind blowing shit. Here’s my latest favorite. From 1999-2003, while home run records were being demolished daily, Pedro pitched 933 innings, in the AL East, in a hitters park.

    He gave up 51 HR’s.

  44. bexarama says:

    Yankee pitchers in this game: 9 IP, 6 H, 1 R, 11 K, 0 BB

    I know it was against the (g)Nats but mm mmm mmmmm. I heard Mo gave up a double though. :O

  45. Taintstick says:

    Holy fucking Christ. I just read through some of the comments on here and I feel like I walked in on a Teabagger convention. The RAB reaction to Joba going to the bullpen is no different than the Republican reaction to the passage of the health care bill. This isn’t Armageddon. Ben Affleck isn’t going to die. If you can all tear yourself away from Farmville for a minute, please reach down and check if your balls are still attached.

    Halladay, Santana, Carpenter, Wainwright, Haren, Greinke, Cone, Nolan Fucking Ryan, Sandy Motherfucking Koufax…all of these pimps were jerked around between the bullpen and the starting rotation when they were in their early 20s. And you know what? They all fucking survived. They all dominated as starters. Stop the insanity. Please. PLEASE.

    Hughes as the 5th starter – confidence level 10
    Joba as the 5th starter – confidence level 10
    Mitre as the 5th starter – confidence level 10

    We run this town. Gz up hoes down.

    • If we had confidence that Joba would go to the bullpen this year but come back out of it next year and rejoin the rotation, we’d be much less averse to the move.

      We don’t. We all fear that Joba in the bullpen this year would be a permanent move. We have good reasons to fear this. The org has been exceedingly flighty and unstable on this matter. The chance of them making a hasty, permanent, and regrettable decision is very, very high.

      • Steve H says:

        If we had confidence that Joba would go to the bullpen this year but come back out of it next year and rejoin the rotation, we’d be much less averse to the move.

        This. A thousand times, this.

      • I totally wasn’t around today, so please correct me if my impression is inaccurate… But was there a whole lot of hand wringing about… A Joel Sherman article? I mean… If so, color me relatively unmoved. Did I miss the Yankees actually making an announcement?*

        *Honest question… Busy day and I just got home from a thing, I’m totally not up on the news.

        • bexarama says:

          No, you didn’t miss an announcement. I think people might have been just venting, but I dunno, it really got to me (just to speak of personal experiences) for a little bit. More the venting than what Sherman wrote.

      • Taintstick says:

        I hear what you are saying, but the only way Joba doesn’t end up a starter long-term is if Cashmoney, Girardi, Eiland, and the Tampa Mafia don’t think he will cut it as a starter. Maybe, just maybe, they know more about Joba’s potential then we do. I know many fans feel vested emotionally in the Joba saga, but many fans had the same exact reaction when the Yanks misused Chris Britton and Josh Phelps. After they way this organization built the 2009 championship, I think we owe them the benefit of the doubt before we decide they are making a hasty, permanent, and regrettable decision.

        • See, but here’s the thing… I don’t think anybody could possibly know enough about Joba’s potential right now to know that he won’t make it as a starter. I’m very much a fan of the Yankees’ F.O., but that doesn’t mean I offer them blind faith.

          • Taintstick says:

            But they have to form an opinion based on the information they have. Their information is pointing them in a certain direction. And they have access to more information then we do. Maybe Joba told them he doesn’t want to start. Maybe they have some medical information that makes them think Joba can’t endure a 200 inning season. I don’t think they picking names out of hat.

            • I don’t think they’re picking names out of a hat either, but I would need a whole lot of crazy evidence to put a kid with the kind of potential Joba has, at his age, into the bullpen because I think he’s better off there, and my team is better off with him there, than with him in the rotation.

              • Taintstick says:

                And I would need a whole lot of crazy evidence to put a kid with the kind of ability Joba has in Scranton. The Yankees are a better team with him in the bullpen than they are with him in Scranton. There is no reason Joba can’t pitch in the bullpen in 2010 and replace Andy in 2011.

                • Hey ZZ says:

                  This is not necessarily true. I mentioned it above in this thread. Joba could very likely be more valuable to this team and make them better starting the year in Scranton and getting called up to fill a hole in the rotation than spending the year in the BP.

                  Also, this entire notion that the Yankees have been perpetuating to the media that they 12 best north is in all honestly complete BS. The Yankees have never before and no team really operates like this. There are plenty of SP prospects in every organization that could make their parent club better by pitching in the bullpen. Just last year Phil Hughes was better than 1/2 the guys they had in the BP on Opening Day, yet he started the year in Scranton.

                • But the demotion wouldn’t be because of performance, it would be because they’d want to keep him in a rotation. What’s best for the organization isn’t always to have the best 25 players in the organization on the active MLB roster. Free your mind, and the rest will follow.

                • What’s best for the organization isn’t always to have the best 25 players in the organization on the active MLB roster. Free your mind, and the rest will follow.

                  Repeated for emphasis.

          • Hey ZZ says:

            See, but here’s the thing… I don’t think anybody could possibly know enough about Joba’s potential right now to know that he won’t make it as a starter. I’m very much a fan of the Yankees’ F.O., but that doesn’t mean I offer them blind faith.

            THIS.

            No matter how smart the Yankees FO. No matter how many scouts think he cannot handle being a SP or that their data does not think he can handle the workload.

            The Yankees simply have no observed Joba enough as a SP in the big leagues to make a sound and reasonable determination about his future as a SP.

            • Taintstick says:

              And there is no indication that the Yankees have made a determination about his future. That’s my point. They can only pick one person to be the 5th starter in 2010. Their data/analysis/scouting/inside info tells them that Hughes is the choice for 2010(according to Sherman). There is absolutely no reason they can’t change their mind this year, no reason they can’t move Joba to the rotation in 2011, no reason they can’t swap Joba and Phil if Phil struggles. People are overreacting for absolutely no reason.

    • 1. Where did you get that picture of me?

      2. We all died a little today: http://riveraveblues.com/off-t.....ent-808792

  46. ultimate913 says:

    Beckett shuts down the Pirates, yes, the PIRATES and then there is an immediate “Bring on the Yankees?” after said game. Never change, mlb. Never change. No. Wait. I take that back. Please do change.

  47. The Central Park coyote is going to be on Fox 5 News at Ten in a couple of minutes.

    Woof woof!

  48. Damn. I’ve been posting about him for weeks, and no one noticed:

    http://riveraveblues.com/2010/.....ent-803195

  49. bonestock94 says:

    I got a weird offer today in my fantasy league. I drafted jobber in like the 24th round, and today someone in my league offered Hughes for him. He’s savvy and he mentioned that Hughes is gonna be the 5th starter. What gives, what does he have to gain?

    • Obviously, he’s like the rest of us, and doesn’t believe for a minute that Hughes will be the starter, and is trying to captialize on the fake “news” that Hughes will be the starter.

      He knows that Joba will put up much more value as a starting pitcher.

      IOW, he’s trying to swindle you.

      • bonestock94 says:

        Well I’m not making any deals until the word comes down tomorrow or Friday. If Hughes ends up being #5 should I do it? I actually could use a good reliever..

        • Not really a Fantasy expert. I answered that because it was obvious to me.

          I suppose it depends on your needs…if your rotation is already full of studs– ones better than Joba/Hughes are likely to be even if they start living up to their potential–and you needs you some bullpen help, that might change things.

          Any Fantasy Gurus out there?

          • WIlliam says:

            The ERA, holds, and saves gotten by joba/hughes as relievers are extremely valuable. More so then them as league average starters.

    • Mike HC says:

      The way I see it, he values both of them more as relievers than starters. He is probably right too. In the AL East, both might put up over a 4 era and a whip above 1.3, which does not help that much in fantasy. As a reliever, they are both great, and can get vulture wins and saves. They lose fantasy value as a starter in most relatively shallow fantasy leagues.

        • Mike HC says:

          At least thats what I think. What do I know why this guy wants him.

          Plus, Hughes may just blow up and become a stud (please let that be true), then it would be horrible trade.

      • bonestock94 says:

        Ah sweet, thanks guys. This is a very deep league, but I think I’m gonna go for whoever ends up being the reliever. Keep joba if he does, or take Hughes if Joba is named. My starters aren’t necessarily studs though. Randy Wells is, but besides that its mostly young guys and/or risks. Sheets, Rowland-Smith, Matusz, Wade Davis, Bucholz, and I picked up Joba and Pettite real late in the draft.

        • Mike HC says:

          Looking at your starters and considering the league depth, I would prefer the starter. But it all comes down to how well you think Hughes will pitch compared to Joba in the pen. Who knows? Good luck either way.

  50. donttradecano says:

    I work with her brother and the whole situation is just horrible

    http://www.ktla.com/news/landi.....3841.story

    what people are writing on the memorial wall is disguisting. at one point there was a picture of her with a noose around her neck. Some sick people live in this world.

  51. In the spirit of random musings, here’s a cool “Yankees Dashboard” where you can get an infographic snapshot of the team throughout the season.

    http://visualbaseball.wordpres…..-dashboard

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