Jul
09
Rangers set to acquire Cliff Lee
ByVia Joel Sherman, the Rangers are set to acquire Cliff Lee and reliever Mark Lowe from the Rangers for Justin Smoak and three others. Lowe is on the disabled list after having back surgery and isn’t expected back anytime soon. I have to assume that Seattle is paying Lee’s salary given Texas’ financial plight. Either way, it’ll be nice not to have to face the former Cy Young Award winner tonight.
You have to figure that the working relationship between Brian Cashman and Jack Zduriencik is strained at the moment, assuming the rumors of a deal being all but complete were true.
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How can bud selig possibly allow this to happen im so confused right now
http://twitter.com/Buster_ESPN/status/18147473789
The Yankees and Mariners had actually had an agreement-in-principle, based on the physicals — and SEA stepped away, which is all fair game.
If you’re talking about the money, Rosenthal and Olney have reported that the Mariners are sending cash to cover (part or all of) Lee’s salary: http://www.mlbtraderumors.com/.....f-lee.html
by holding onto Jesus, blessing in disguise?
The Yankees just got played.
Yup used and abused
How so? It cost them nothing, and they’ve shown Lee how much they want him without tampering by talking to him directly. They keep Montero, and have a better chance to sign Lee in the off-season.
How were they “played”?
Its also super-possible the completeness of this deal was overstated in the media and Cashman knew they were still only discussing parameters, not finishing the deal.
You think Cashman thinks all is hunky dory with how this went (or didn’t go) down?
No, I think he’s annoyed…but he’ll get over it. In the end, it cost him nothing but a bit of lost “face”–which is minimal, since it’s not the Yanks who leaked the “done-ness” of the deal.
I think Jack Z. will find it much harder to do anything deal-wise with the Cashmaniac after this.
I agre with this endlessly. That was Cashman’s play if he got him great, but now he keeps his top prospect and Cliff Lee knows how much the Yanks want him. The Rangers can’t sign him, he’s guaranteed to be a FA, and he knows the Yanks want him badly.
The Yankees just got played.
Yup. Exactly like how we got played when we couldn’t consummate that Mariano Rivera for Felix Fermin swap with the M’s a decade and a half ago.
It’s awesome, isn’t it?
or Guidry back in 1976
Sometimes the best deals are the ones never made. Hopefully when the flag for #28 is being hoisted above the Stadium, but Lee and Montero will be on the Yankees roster.
We will get him next year and it will only cost us money. So who really got played the rangers. I am glad we did not get him for prospects
:: wipes brow and heaves a sigh of relief ::
If that is getting played, play on!
:: thumbs-up ::
But next time, please use the “Reply” button when responding to a comment. It keeps the discussion readable.
Don’t tell me what to do devil woman!
?
If you’re quoting Billy Madison, I think you meant “Don’t tell me my business, Devil Woman.”
While I have been called a devil before, no one’s ever called me “woman”.
have fun giving up a top 20 prospect in all of baseball for a 3 month rental you have almost zero shot at re-signing, texas!
almost ecstatic we didn’t do it.
I feel the same way…i think this is a big mistake by Texas
if texas wasn’t hamstrung by MLB with this bankruptcy thing maybe that’d make it better haha
Same. I’m not 100% against moving Montero but, if we do, I want it for a longer term piece.
haha I love how I decided that nothing would happen in sports today and didn’t check my computer after the LeBron drama last night.
Of course the first thing I did when I got home today was turn on my computer to RAB and see all of the topics on Cliff Lee.. Wow.
And now that the Rangers “definitely” have him.. They could be a force to be reckoned with.
As long as he’s not pitching tonight =)
And now that the Rangers “definitely” have him.. They could be a force to be reckoned with.
Any attack made by the Rebels against this station would be a useless gesture, no matter what technical data they have obtained. This station is now the ultimate power in the universe. I suggest we use it.
Pay no attention to that plywood-covered hole in that trench no one would ever bother with…
Perfect response. Just don’t let him choke you for not believing.
Hmm…not unheard of but certainly strange for the Rangers to deal top young talent within the division.
That was a close one.
/Retracts orders for a Lee jersey
//cries
Just put the order on hold for a few months. And order a Montero jersey.
http://www.hiyoooo.com
8)
Any concern that the Rangers abuse Lee now in the second half? I know it didn’t effect CC but two different builds.
I doubt it really because I don’t think the Rangers want to risk breaking him before the playoffs so I doubt Lee will make several starts on only three days rest. But I think there is some concern seeing how the Rangers are the team with Nolan Ryan’s strategy of if they have hit the limit, throw them another inning.
But if it’s close towards the end they might need to ride him to just get there ala Brewers
My sentiments exactly. Especially in that heat. But, so far, no Rangers pitcher has actually expired while on the mound. Cautionary note: this is where Joba hurt his arm in 2008 on a hot August night.
And wasn’t Hughes no-hitting the Rangers when he got hurt?
Not that this means anything.
Luckily he missed the first 5 or so starts of the season with injury. The way he pitches that’s pretty much 35-40 innings not on his arm.
Just as long as Tampa didn’t get him!
He will be in Pinstripes next year!!!
My thoughts exactly. Price and Lee might have been a huge mountain to overcome. Texas just became last years Phillies: one great pitcher and no one else who scares anyone with a pulse.
So you think the Rangers will sign Pedro next?
Thank you Rangers. No thank YOU. You too David Adams.
I think the rest of the season would’ve been easier with Cliff Lee, but I’m glad we keep Jesus…for now….
Yeah for now. But there’s little on the block worth Jesus. Oswalt but he’s expensive in money and likely in prospects. Dan Haren maybe.
Please Cash call it a day and wait until November. The Yankees are the best team with or without Lee. Let’s not waste Jesus.
I could care less about Montero. He’s lacking in defense and in
order for me to give my approval a catcher needs to be defensivly solid. I was anxiously awaiting the message that the trade was official and feel like I was played for a fool. It’s kinda like what the Miami Heat fans would have felt like if LeBron didn’t go to Miami.
You’re funny.
Well, at least the Rangers can’t extend him so there is a 100% chance the Yankees will bid for Lee. This was about the best spot in the AL for the Yankees because at least teh Rangers don’t have any other great pitchers to put with Lee so it is not like Lee-Liriano or Lee-Price.
Doesn’t hurt Yankees since we own Rangers in the Playoffs… Lee will be ours for just YES cash after # 28…. MuHaHaHa
Good point. Hadn’t thought of that. He’s literally a rental.
Tommy Hunter 5-0 2.34 ERA
Colby Lewis 8-5 3.33 ERA
CJ Wilson 7-4 3.24 ERA
It sure looks like they have some other pretty good starting pitchers, especially considering the hitter friendly Rangers ballpark.
Anyone think this hurts our negotiating leverage when we try and sign him in December. Cashman – “I mean, we’re not that interest (looks around and whistles)…..”
We’re not the ones who backed out of the deal.
What Nick was implying is that the Yankees tipped their hand and Lee now knows that he is their top target and will use that knowledge to get more money.
Technically yes, but I don’t think it matters for a player in Lee’s position since the only way to get him is to go out and outbid everyone else anyway. If it were a mid-tier player, you would have a point Nick.
I think it was pretty obvious he would be our top target so it doesn’t hurt the negotiations
Thanks for agreeing with me.
Any top FA negotiating with the Yanks is going to presume / demand top dollar. There’s very few ways to hurt that type of negotiation.
smoak for a few months of lee
really texas?
Let’s be grateful that it isn’t Jesus.
I’m very grateful but smoak is a switch hitting power first baseman. and lets just say judging by his K:BB ratio hes run into bad luck in the majors. Trading him like this is just downright STUPID on the rangers part. montero wasnt a part of our major league team. now the rangers have a glaring hole at 1B, and chris davis is proven mediocrity
Yup it’s not the greatest move one can make, All being said I’m just really grateful it isn’t Jesus right now.
Lee + the Yankees 1st round pick in the draft.
The Angels got Mike Trout out of Teixeira, so you never know.
You obviously haven’t seen Smoak play much…he’ll never approach All-Star quality. Texas is forced to build a team in a way NY never will understand…every other way except spending.
For as much talk about prospects and future ramifications, texas just got much better for their run this year.
For four months. They’re not even a top tier team with Lee too.
they’re gonna make the playoffs and now they have a legit ace to lead them. i didn’t say they were winning it all but they’re much better now for this season.
True but their offense can’t do anything on the road if you aren’t named Vlad. Lee is a great ace but it’ll take more than that to win it. Ask the Phillies who had Lee own us in the World Series. They’ll be good but I wouldn’t worry about them.
i think this depends a lot if you face them in a 5 game series or a 7 game series.
i am concerned now about seeing them in a 5 game series.
not saying you open your farm system just to guard against that, but this does make them a much, much stronger opponent.
yeah exactly. i definitely wouldn’t want to see them in a 5 game series. nobody really is gonna explode offensively in the playoffs so i don’t see how that hurts the rangers. they’re gonna be a force in the playoffs in my opinion if this trade actually happens.
definitely wouldn’t want to see them in a 5 game series.
Agreed, I wouldn’t want to see the Rangers in a 5 game series now. But you know who I’d want to see even less?
The Yankees.
i wouldn’t want to see the yankees period but this makes it much more interesting if its a five game series.
They are significantly better. Playoff rotation could look like Lee/Harden/Lewis/ and one of Holland/CJ wilson/tommy hunter.
Maybe Cashman was just driving up the price. Didn’t the Ranges say earlier that they wouldn’t give Smoak?
well if Cashman was trying to drive up the Price, it wouldn’t have gotten to this point. Cashman would have just made an offer, not come within seconds of acquiring the guy.
Anyone concerned about Montero at all over this? He was practically being fitted for another uniform and now he has to go back out there and play for the team that didn’t want you. He is only 20 after all.
He’s a big boy. He knows it’s a business. Sulking about it would gain him nothing.
He’s a big boy, but he may not treat it like a business. There’s no guaranteeing that this wont affect his performance. heck, maybe it will drive him to work harder.
We’re going to start talking about #badattitude problems pretty soon. THIS COULD BE HUGE, I TELL YOU!
its not that the Yanks don’t want him, its that the Yankees were trying to get better. I don’t think that really gets in the way of a prospect. Montero has been untouchable for a long time, maybe this will motivate him. I don’t think it really has a bearing. This just shows he is such a good prospect that nearly him alone could acquire someone like Lee. I mean, the Yankees offered Montero straight up for Halladay. That shows the Yankees love him.
Who knows how much they follow this stuff in the first place. I would assume they have better things to do than sit on their computers and follow MLBTR and Twitter all day.
/nerd
FTFY!
/obligatory’d
i think this makes him go “oh shoot, i better get my act together b/c i don’t want to be expendable”
List of Yankee Hall of Famers and future Hall of Famers who were once on the verge of being traded to another team before donning the pinstripes:
All of them
[end of list]
lol. this.
except Jeter.
I’m sure there were times Jeter was almost traded.
http://media.photobucket.com/i.....298700.jpg (safe)
If not coming to Yanks, good place for him to go from their perspective.
Even if Lee has a change of heart and wants to sign extension, zero chance of that happening in Texas.
Depending on who ends up buying the Rangers when they go to auction later this month, it’s entire possible that they extend Lee. New owner might want to make a big splash.
I don’t think Lee will want to be extended knowing how the Yankees really want him. The new owner would have to pony up over 100 million over five years and I don’t see that happening.
Too much debt attached to that team and stadium. After spending money to buy the team they wouldn’t spend that much money on a FA until they put that team back in a stable situation financially.
I bet Lee is a Yankee next year. I’ll bookmark this.
Yes because in the extremely unlikely event that the Yankees sign the top FA they’ve shown massive interest in you can go back only 4 short months and point to this post as the only one to have called it.
Literally almost word for word what I was typing.. good thing I read this.
His stock could also drop with the hitters park he is about to go to. I mean we will see.. but the ball flies in Arlington? Texas..
Now that Lee’s in Texas and not Seattle, I’ll move the odds of him signing an extension and not going to free agency from 5% to… 5%.
So you’re saying they have a better shot at an extension?
Yes – everything’s bigger in TX. Even their percentages.
Hopefully this non-deal makes its way into the best non-deals thread we had here at RAB earlier. The Mo, Cano non-deals that we all are thankful for.
hahaha, What a turn of events!!! Yanks, aka, WWE.
Well, at least many of the RAB posters here will be happy.
Lee for 2011!!!
The Mariners dealt Cliff Lee for a Smoak-type bat.
now they could flip Smoak for a Penny-type arm and they are all set to storm back into the race in the second half. Here come the Mariners!
A few thoughts.
- Call me a homer, but we can beat Texas in a 5 game set even with Lee on their side.
-Sucks we’re going to have to give them our first round pick
-Don’t know how closely minor leaguers follow this stuff, but if this isn’t a kick in the ass for Montero I don’t know what is. (Yes I know he’s been hot lately).
- Could have been a smoke screen the entire time to make sure another AL team had to fork over serious talent, not just a 5 star prospect and a couple three stars.
And most importantly, I love Jesus and Jesus loves me.
Well Jesus was offered last year so hopefully this shouldn’t impact him.
If we offer javy and he doesn’t accept, we will likely be upgrading from our first round pick to a better if we sign Lee.
Buster_ESPN
Heard this: SEA is kicking in $2.5 million in order to help offset the $4 million owed to Lee. In return, Texas gave a better package (more)
Buster_ESPN
of prospects besides Smoak.
Meaning MLB is still subsidizing $1.5MM.
I bet the Lee acquisition increases the Rangers’ revenue by more than $1.5 million. So shouldn’t the MLB owners be happy? Short term focused deals like this favor an ownership group that is planning to get out soon (MLB).
Mariano for Felix Fermin
Mariano and Jorgie for David Wells
Bernie for Jeff Blauser
Andy for Adam Eaton
Jesus for Cliff Lee
well said. Here’s to winning the 2010 World Series and signing Lee in the offseason.
I still wish we got Adam Eaton. We could have gotten Chris Young and Adrian Gonzalez with a trade to the Rangers.
Hughes for Santana.
I was one minute behind you with this thought.
Cashman can’t be too happy. I’m pretty sure that Jack Zduriencik (sp?) will wake up with a horse’s head in his bed tomorrow morning.
green eyed ninja Cashman will be sitting in a chair next to Jack Z’s bed sharpening his knife waiting for Jack Z to wake up.
This seems like the trade scare that every great Yankee goes through. Cano almost got traded, Hughes almost got traded, Posada almost got traded, Mo almost got traded, I think even Andy almost got traded. Welcome to the club Jesus!
Bernie (Bambi days)
Buster_ESPN
The Yankees and Mariners had actually had an agreement-in-principle, based on the physicals — and SEA stepped away, which is all fair game.
You know whats incredibly funy, some Mets blogs are enraged:
They are saying: Josh Thole, Fernando Martinez and Bobby Parnell is a better offer and imploring Omar to do it.
Yes, Josh Thole is the “C” prospect that is the central part of the trade and they are willing to substitute Pagan for FMart. They think this offer is way better than the Rangers’ and slightly better than the Yanks.
Amazing.
Mets fans don’t pay much attention to anything other than Kevin Burkhardt’s smirky good looks so they never read the reports that the Mets were asked by Jack Z to include Ike Davis and Jon Niese in any package for Lee. Omar declined. Coming back with an offer of Thole, FMart, and Parnell would have been tragically comical.
Fans also claim that Angel Pagan would be a deal-breaker. Yes, Angel Pagan.
if the rangers get sold there is a good chance they lock up lee after the season no? esp iof they go to the playoffs and go to the alcs?
I wonder if the Yankees will go after Oswalt now.
Fuck that. Lee >>>>>>>>>>> Oswalt.
I agree 100%. I’m just saying that because it seemed Cash was poised on adding another starter, maybe with the idea of trading Vasquez for an impact bat.
I’d rather have Vazquez.
That.
Oswalt + Werth (or Vazquez + Werth, if they swing a 3-way) > Vazquez by himself, imo
But it’s not Vazquez by himself, it’s Vazquez plus whatever prospects you had to give up to get Oswalt.
absolutely. I would NEVER give up Montero for Oswalt. But what if it were, say, Nunez, Joseph, Nova, and Noesi? I would do that. Not sure whether the Stros would, though, but it’s plausible. Two decent middle infielders, two decent starters for an aging and expensive starter who doesn’t really matter, since he’s got no chance of really contributing to a championship in Houston
note: I would do that with the caveat being the aforementioned Javy-Werth trade (damn you Axisa). Oswalt’s not gonna dominate in the AL East, but I think you could expect him to put up a Vazquez-ish line of modest stabilization, and Werth would give us not only a real DH, but one that comes with a great deal of positional flexibility, too.
That’s how you improve in 2010 without messing up 2011-2016
I wouldn’t hit Roy Oswalt with Bea Arthur’s dick.
Oswalt in 2010 + Jayson Werth in 2010 + Cliff Lee in 2011 + Jesus Montero for eternity >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Cliff Lee
oswalt is not a big upgrade over vazquez
I guess we got a few good things out of this: We don’t face Lee tonight, we still have one of the top prospects in the game and Lee is going to a team unlikely to extend him. So all-in-all it was fun to wake up this morning and hear that talks were moving along and then get home and find all these articles about what the new team will be like and what we’ll do with Javy. And then a few hours later we’re not getting him at all. It just goes to show baseball is unpredictable in every facet of the game!!!
As much as I would have liked to add Lee now, I prefer waiting until, say December 15th; then it will feel more like a Christmas present.
teixeira-style
i’m just waiting to read that the rangers included holland
It seems as if this is like deja vu with the Halladay offer.
Yanks offer Montero and nothing or not much else. Other team turns it down because they want a whole bunch of prospects and not just one top guy.
A.) Yanks offer Montero and nothing or not much else.
B.) Other team turns it down because they want a whole bunch of prospects and not just one top guy.
C.) Yankees win the World Series anyway, go pussytubing, and then sign the player in question to a fat contract, keeping both the trade target and the trade ammunition.
Eh, I’m in for that too, ha.
Fans go pussytubing as well.
The best part about the Rangers getting Lee is that they are dirt poor right now. Locking up Lee is probably not an option for them, seeing as they need financial considerations to even pick up the remainder of his current contract.
I think this is more of a CC to Brewers type deal for them. They don’t have the chance to make the playoffs every year, and when you get that shot, you gotta go for it.
They will probably offer him a very nice deal, that the Yanks will blow out of the water, and that will be that.
And now the Rangers are assuming they will get a 1st round pick next year… the Brewers thought the same thing about Sabathia
So the Yankees did their job? I don’t get it. It took 12 hours for a deal to be declined, but 15 minutes for a deal to be complete … with two prospects?
That is if you believe that Ms-Rangers only got started after the Yanks deal fell through. What are assistant GMs for, I am sure there were back channel negotiations with atleast 2 other teams
yanks deal fell through, I would assume, because the Rangers deal existed. And was better for the Ms
anyone that thinks texas is not a force to be reckoned with now is fooling themselves.
Lee/lewis/harden/ and one of holland/hunter/wilson is a very strong rotation. Hamilton is CRUSHING the ball and vlad is back to being a significant threat. Kinsler is also on fire, young is having a good season, andrus/borbon are both having fine seasons. Cruz will be back to crushing bombs daily.
Texas is not a joke.
No doubt. Cashman wanted to get him, but not for more than Montero. Montero was enough, but Seattle didn’t bite.
The Phillies with a pitcher in the 9 spot posted a better OPS than the Rangers now. The Rangers can’t hit away from their stadium with a team OPS of .695 away. While the Rangers have better pitching I’m still more afraid of the Rays and Red Sox in the playoffs, whoever gets in.
Texas wasn’t a joke before, and they’re not a joke after. They’re a much stronger team for 2010.
That being said, the Yankees would be favored in a short series against them before, and still be favored in a short series against them now.
We’re still the best team in baseball.
Texas is not a joke.
No, but they are a below .500 team against teams with a winning record, 6-12 against the AL East and got to play Houston (OPS+ 73/ERA+ 94), Pittsburgh (OPS+ 77/ERA+ 80) and Florida (OPS+ 93/ERA+ 103) in interleague play.
I’d give up Montero now for a 28 year old Cliff Lee; since he’s 31, let’s sign him in the offseason without giving up any prospects and when they actually have a spot in the rotation for him
Seattle was completely in their right to back out of the deal they had with the Yankees. It is typically frowned upon, but MLB executives tell me that everyone knows that the Yankees deserve it.
Texas is the big loser in this. They could’ve had Brad Penny (108 W 1176 K) and instead have to settle for Cliff Lee (98 W 989 K).
For MLB.com, I am Peter Gammons.
Well played.
hahahah. That is one of the best Gammons type sign off jokes because the material was kinda plausible in the first paragraph.
Funny.
Smoak is already significant….i really wonder who these “3 others” are. Texas has a plethora of fine arms
Maybe Scheppers? Texas really is in a position to make quite a run. They have a solid Farm and a really good MLB team.
I’m inclined to think Salty is included in this deal. who else?
Does this suggest the Yankees don’t believe in Montero long term? They seem comfortable parting with him.
I mean they were trading him for one of the top 3 pitchers in baseball. I mean it’s not like they were giving him away.
True, but it seems like they also dangled him for Halladay
Right. They see Montero’s value equal to the best 30 and over pitchers in the game. That is why they didn’t offer a whole bunch of other good prospects like Texas did. They feel Montero is enough value on his own.
True, but it seems like they also dangled him for Halladay
I mean they were trading him for one of the top 3 pitchers in baseball. I mean it’s not like they were giving him away.
True, I guess I’d like to believe that Montero’s gonna be so good, there’s no way in hell they would trade him. Though nobody should be untouchable, that’s just bad business
nobody should be untouchable except inexpensive, established MVP/Cy Young-type players under team control. The next tier, however, would be blue chip prospects and expensive MVP/Cy young-type players in their primes. Halladay and Lee both fit that bill, and the Yankees were absolutely right to consider both of those trades very heavily.
They were also right, if it was at all their decision (which the Lee deal doesn’t appear to have been), to leave those deals on the table.
Halladay is the right handed version of Cliff Lee
“I mean they were trading him for one of the top 3 pitchers in baseball.” … for 3 months.
I think it means they’re not too high on Montero. They already have a bunch of current and future DH’s.
On the bright side, he gets pulled from tonights start no matter what, right?
Yup. It’s like Christmas! We avoid him, and keep the prospects.
Thinking about how “we avoid him, and keep the prospects” relates to Christmas … still thinking …
Did you sneak into other peoples houses in the middle of the night and steal their presents?
I think he means that “we avoid him, and keep the prospects” was stolen from Pagans, promoted in red and white (Santa) as a marketing scheme for Coca Cola and is a great way to bribe children into being brainwashed into believing some imaginary white-bearded guy in the sky will be angry and kill them if they don’t follow the rules of the church properly. And a virgin gave birth to a white kid in the most un-white part of the planet.
So if Montero is getting dangled only for the top shelf pitchers, can we see a repeat of this drama at the next trading deadline?
Who’s reeeeeeally good and possibly available in mid season 2011?
Hanley Ramirez
Montero is likely to be in the Bronx the next time the trade deadline rolls around.
Fuck it, I’m going with this was arranged by Jack and Cashman all along. Cash called Jack and said “Hey I know a way we can both get what we want without having to do much. I’m gonna offer our best prospect, and a few midlevel guys. You’re then gonna shop this deal around and try and get something better. Now Cliff knows how badly we want to sign him, will definitely want to hit free agency AND someone else overpays for him and Seattle gets a better package.” It’s Win/WIn
/Ridiculous, but Cash is a ninja who moves in silence.
They wouldn’t have to consciously conspire. As you said, it was in both teams’ interests to do a little play-acting.
I wouldn’t actually be surprised.
kinda clever trade by Seattle: they get a top prospect + 3 other guys from a divisional rival and lose Cliff Lee (who they would’ve lost either way in a few months) and Mark Lowe who misses the rest of the season anyway. Seattle wins this trade by miles imo. But Texas probably won’t complain if they win the division this year. Texas 4 sure won’t have the money to sign Lee to an extension so I guess we’ll see him in pinstripes next year
Part of me is glad that Javy V gets to stay around for the rest of the season. Maybe we’ll get a redemption story where he tears it up in the postseason, helps the Yanks win 28 and gets the closure he’s been looking for for the past 6 years.
still 3 weeks from the deadline, my friend.
Yeah, but unless a huge arm comes on the market, I don’t see how the Yankees trade Javy. Maybe if Burnett was tearing it up and Hughes didn’t have a limit. With those two issues (even thought we may be on the verge of getting Good AJ back), Javy can eat innings and keep you in the game. Even if every 3 of his 4 stars are solid and he gives us a chance to win those games, I’d think he stinks around. The Lee trade made him expendable, but who else out there (as far as pitchers go) would be worth picking up for prospects and then turning around to ship Javy V somewhere else?
Even if every 3 of his 4 stars are solid and he gives us a chance to win those games, I’d think he stinks around
I’m tired of the Javy hate. Just stop it. He’s a very solid pitcher, there’s no need to mock him.
/juss playin’
Javy will not get traded now.
Let me repeat that.
JAVY WILL NOT GET TRADED.
I agree 100%. Just don’t see who else would come on the market to make it worth it.
str8edgeracer
Merry christmas rangers fans! we won the Cliff Lee sweepstakes narrowly beating the Miami Heat. #mlb. #DOWORK and #upknucks to JD and staff
CJ wilson calling us the miami heat of baseball?
Good, that makes them the Knicks of this situation. Which means they’re gonna get rolled by the Heat.
I think it is just a joke.
The Heat seem to be getting every big player lately, I’m surprised they weren’t in on Lee.
Mark Teixeira’d
+25
On the bright side, the Yankees will keep Jesus and still sign Lee in the offseason, because the Rangers sure won’t.
On the minus side, man, FUCK the Mariners and their front office.
So Texas gets our 1st round pick in 2011. This clearly indicates Cash’s intent to secure Lee. At least we can bank on adding Lee to nxt yr’s rotation.
Unless Cashman completely screws them and signs someone higher on the Elias Ranking, I just have no idea who that would have to be.
Yea, Crawford would be the only potential target, but I think Lee would be higher rated?
What a roller coaster day
Except this rollercoaster broke from the tracks, crashed, and burned.
Ken Rosenthal Ken_Rosenthal
Smoak, RHP Bevan, RHP Luecke, IF Lawson heading to #Mariners. #Rangers #MLB
Bevan is the only one that shows up on the milb preseason top prospect list (#16). Control RHP, low strikeouts.
Pitching Matchup???
You didn’t heard? The Mariners just pulled this guy out of retirement.
http://jeffpearlman.com/wp-con...../RJ_AP.jpg
This just makes me want to see Montero in the bigs sooner. But I know he’ll make his debut sometime late next season and for his own good. I want it to be against the M’s to.
Montero hitting some bombs against the M’s would be simply beautiful.
Nah, Montero will get a cup of coffee in September.
Blessing in disguise. We’re still as of now the best team in baseball without everyone playing the way they could play and injuries. We keep Montero and we get Lee in the offseason. I’m sort of nervous about the rangers though they will be a much better team this year. however, losing smoak could be a big issue for them in the next few years
the Rangers just became last years Phillies. One fantastic pitcher and 4 guys who really dont scare anyone.
and an intensely overrated lineup led by one super-awesome hitter (Utley/Hamilton) and one very good one who isn’t as good as everyone thinks (Howard/Vlad), and one other really good hitter. The difference, of course, is that Jayson Werth is a better hitter than Ian Kinsler.
Blessing in a very bad, Bobby Valentinesque disguise. I think this is a blessing plain and simple. Hopefully time will prove me, and several other posters here, right.
How good are Blake Beavan, Josh Lueke and Matthew Lawson?
You can almost hear the sigh of relief coming from Boston. those guys caught a very lucky break.
This was a better trade for the Mariners. Smoak is more big-league ready, and fits their ballpark better.
“To get Lee without having to give up Perez, Holland, Scheppers, Feliz or Ogando is a huge, huge “win” for #Rangers.” – Evan P Grant (Dallas Morning News)
***Slams head continuously against wall***
Its a huge win in the context of the deal already made, but no move where Smoak goes out is a “huge, huge win”.
The fact they have the 6th rated farm system by BA means nothing (BA has a history of getting their evaluations wrong (Like their great Red Sox first baseman Jimmy Foxx oops Lars Anderson)). As for the Mariners, I am not impressed with anything Seattle does: They had a team that had three of thr top 50 players of all-time (Arod, Griffey jr, and Randy Johnson), Buehner, and Edgar and Tino Martinez, and still never won. This year they have Lee, King Felix and Ichiro and still suck. They brought in a guy like Milton Bradley, who might be the biggest manager/clubhouse/organization cancer in the game (Carlos Zambrano included), they signed Chone Figgins to a big contract, and he has essentiallydone zero (Like the 6th inning against Andy last night), and they rudely treated Ken Griffey jr, to the point, where he could not wait to get out of there. Seattle as a sports town, is essentially Cleveland West, no matter what great players come to that city, they will not win Championships. Lee, Griffey, King Felix, Lebron, Manny, Thome it is all the same.
Beaven is a lot like McAllister. Solid stuff, but nothing special. Potential back of rotation starter. Lueke can hit the upper 90′s from the BP, but hes kind of old, and doesn’t have good secondary stuff. Know nothing about Lawson.
Hey do you guys remember that time when that team that had a super-awesome lefty ace, a inconsistent but sometimes dominant #2, and a reliable “proven vet” #3, and no other reliable starters and an offense that was very similar to the one the Yankees have right now won the world series?
What makes people think that that team, plus Javier Vazquez and Phil Hughes as additional starting options, can’t do it again?
Tomorrow’s rumors will involve King Felix.
so basically they took smoak over montero because smoak is plus defensively
Ken Rosenthal Ken_Rosenthal
#Rangers jumped. Adams’ ankle injury was excuse for M’s to back out. “You just don’t do business that way,” one Yankee official said. #MLB
Ken Rosenthal Ken_Rosenthal
#Yankees livid with #Mariners. Believed they had deal, then M’s took it to #Rangers saying put Smoak in and Lee is yours… #MLB
You didn’t know?
A high ankle sprain is career threatening.
This was all part of Cash’s plan.
News Flash: Cash kills all of Mariner’s FO.
can we all point and laugh at Texas?
We needed this as an excuse? I have been way ahead of the curve then.
I think if we asked most people on this board yesterday if we should trade Montero, Adams and McCallister for two months of Cliff Lee, we’d collectively scream “Hell, no.” Your wish has come true.
I stand by my statement:
I want a David Adams Broken Ankle Watch on the sidebar.
Let’s be real, the Yankees wouldn’t make that trade without resigning Lee in the offseason. This deal would’ve been for 5 years of Lee.
No matter, they’ll probably sign him anyway this winter. No way Lee signs an extension before hitting the market.
No matter, they’ll probably sign him anyway this winter. No way Lee signs an extension before hitting the market.
Exactly, which is precisely why Mike D is correct in calling the trade “a few months of Lee”.
not to mention no way Texas is able to sign anyone to a long term deal.
Montero 2007 GCL season: 33G .280/.366/.421 3HR 19 RBI
Sanchez 2010 GCL season: 14G .385/.468/.635 4 HR 20 RBI
/elMaquinito’d
The Sanchize!!!!!!!!!!
This is beautiful. Keep Jesus and Lee goes to a team that has zero chance of resigning him, thus making him a pretty easy FA signing. Only downside is that since I live in Texas, I have to put up with a few months of everyone thinking the Rangers are WS favorites. It’s like the Cowboys fanbase decided to jump on the Ranger’s bandwagon till football season starts.
Lee goes from Safeco to Arlington. Smoak goes from Arlington to Safeco. My Fantasy Baseball team goes from the penthouse to the toilet.
Hahah
More silver lining: We get to feast on former Red Sox whipping boy David Pauley.
Drinks all around!
The aftermath here is the Yanks kind of tipped their hand to the rest of the league that they agree (with the consensus of scouts) that Jesus won’t be a big league catcher. All along they have said they believe he can be a catcher but it might be tough to maintain that stance going forward. Probably limits Jesus’ trade value a bit going forward.
Probably limits Jesus’ trade value a bit going forward.
Then perhaps we should just stop trying to trade him altogether.
I mean I love him too, but if he can’t catch…
he can still hit.
Defense wins games. If a catcher can’t call a game chances are your pitching will suffer. The fact that his behind the plate defense sucks doesn’t help.
How’s that defense wins games thing working out for the Mariners?
I think I remember reading about some other Yankees catching prospect who supposedly couldn’t play defense and just mashed and mashed and mashed.
Jorge Something…
Posada, even now, is miles ahead of Montero defensively. If Montero can’t catch, first base is occupied which relegates him to DH. I read he’s athletic, maybe he can play the outfield or something…but if he can’t catch, trading him has to become a realistic option. He can hit like a motherfucker, but if he doesn’t have a place on this team I’m sure there’s plenty of teams that would LOVE to find a spot for him.
MONTERO. IS. 20.
Patience, people. Defense can be TAUGHT, just like Jorgie was taught when he came up.
And it can be said that Montero is miles ahead of Posada offensively, but I won’t say that, because we just need to keep perspective.
If Montero hits like he is capable of hitting, even with his negative defense, he will be worth so many more wins than if he were at another position/DH that Frangraphs will explode into a gummy bears.
*Fangraphs
In which I undo my point with a typo.
No, I don’t really think so. I think Montero has been able to maintain trade value. It took a hit when he did not start so hot in AAA, but he is 20. If Montero comes up to the bigs in 2011 and 2012 and starts mashing .280/.350/.470 his value will go up even if he can’t be an everyday C (which would just explode his value). However, I think the Yankees will eventually trade Montero down the road just because it will be hard to find a position for him in the IF and DH. However, if Montero’s stock goes up we have seen what the Yankees can and could get for Montero.
I don’t think so. Neither Seattle nor New York said what position he would play in Seattle. Nothing was mentioned about how Seattle sees him going forward.
I don’t know how true it is, but Sherman reported that Seattle did think he could remain at catcher going forward:
http://www.nypost.com/p/sports.....d02uuU1I/1
It hurts his trade value that he was offered/almost traded for 2 of the best pitchers in baseball?
This. Considering that the deal was virtually consummated with Montero being the only big-time prospect involved, I’d say his trade value is still very high.
I don’t see how you figure that. They have another guy with a plus bat and plus defense at the same position that is a year older and a season behind. It would stink to let Montero’s epic bat go, but Romine is no slouch by any stretch. Keeping both of them will require some creativity from Girardi, etc.
Admitting that by thinking seriously about trading Montero for one of the top 3 pitchers in baseball hardly means anything bad about Montero.
You guys read that thread on Lookout Landing? Apparently Pineda was scratched out. Could he possibly have been a part of our Lee package =X.
If so, that would have been some super undercover ninja type shit.
There is literally a negative one-billion percent chance that the M’s would package Pineda and Lee together in any trade.
So you’re saying…..
Jesus lives!!!!!!!!!!!
Lee not in the division!
Not facing him tonight!
He and Montero will be here when the 28 rings are given out!
I DON’T KNOW WHAT WE’RE YELLING ABOUT!!!!
PUSSY TUBING!
DOES THIS MEAN WE AREN’T WINNING THE WORLD SERIES THIS YEAR??? THAT WOULD SUCK!!!
LOUD NOISES!!!!!!!!!
Hey, I didn’t caps, I just excalmated? my points. I’m very happy.
so to pretty much recap what everyone has been saying:
Yes I would have loved to have Cliff Lee. But it is even better that Texas has traded for him. We keep all the prospects. Texas has no shot of extending Lee, considering there is trouble over adding just over 1 million in salary. So in 5 months, Cliff Lee will be a Yankee and Jesus will stay a Yankee.
Its funny all day we were bashing poor Jesus to make ourselves feel better about the trade and now he’s still a yankee.
“We”?
OK fine many people…
Speak for yourself NYQ.
NYQ is right, go back and read the posts that many people left on here earlier today.
did Jack Z basically screwed Cashman over? F.U Jack Zack.
Jack Z saved Cash from making a potential mistake in an unconvential style. I think Cash should be upset, but I am grateful.
The Ballpark in Arlington is officially a Smoak free zone.
I guess the Rangers thought Justin was all Smoak and no sizzle.
The Seattle fire marshall has been alerted to the trade, because conventional wisdom shows that where there’s Smoak there’s fire.
Ok I’m done.
The Rangers decided to Smoak the Mariners out.
son i am disappoint
Nice!
I’m not ecstatic about it, but I am happier NOT making the trade than I would be if they had made the trade. Plus, I feel like if Lee doesnt go to the Rays, I’m good. Even with Lee, I think the Yanks can beat the Rangers in postseason, even the DS.
Rangers was the best place that Lee could have gone. They don’t have a power 1-2 combo and their offense should cool down with the weather and with no pitching behind Lee I would not be surprised if they lose to Rays in the ALDS.
I agree that I don’t view the Rangers as a threat right now. After the Yankees play them again, I may change my mind, but this is so much better than him going to Tampa or even Minnesota.
They’re absolutely a thread. Deep and powerful lineup, lock down bullpen, and now they have a guy to throw in Games 1, 4, 7.
Why would he be throwing 1, 4 & 7 in the future when he reportedly declined to do it last year?
He said he’d do it last year. Charlie Manuel decided not to let him because he hadn’t done it a whole bunch.
http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/.....id=4615717
If the Rangers aren’t going to extend him, they’d be foolish not to get a much out of him as possible and throw him out there on three day’s rest.
Well, agree to disagree, Mike. I haven’t been able to seen them enough to know. I just know their history, which is obviously irrelevant, and I’m not sure the rest of their rotation is good enough. I just remember they were bad in April, which will obviously also be irrelevant come September/October.
It’s still bettern than him going to one of the other 3 places. Or the Mets.
Thanks. I never saw that piece or a similar one. I’d been thinking it was Lee who punked out.
I’m with you that Texas is a good team. I don’t get the point of underestimating any opponent, particularly one with Hamilton, Vlad, and Neftali.
I love the smell of trade talks in the morning (and the afternoon… and the evening).
Alright, Cash. Who’s up next?
Felix Hernandez.
The Montero Watch continues…
Wanna bet he goes on a hot streak??
First, I would like to say thank you to Jack Zduriencik. Second, I would like to say, Brian Cashman, what the F were you smoking last night and this morning? Third, I would like to say, Jesus Montero, please ake Brian Cashman look like even more of an idiot for trying to trade you by going out and absolutely rake in the IL for the rest of the year.
Because raking in the IL vs. winning a World Series is so much more important, right?
Our future DH log jam team (Montero, Jorge, Jeter, A-Rod) is MUCH more important than winning now.
Right on Pat D.
I can’t understand these prospect huggers. Let’s keep a kid who can only hit and just hope for the best with AJ and Javy!
Anyone wondering who was bashing Montero througout the day, just look at the posts from the three jokers above.
Thank Mo, thank Mo!