Open Thread: Over The Edge

December 3, 2010 by Mike Axisa 119 Comments

Yankees Cashman baseball — (AP Photo/The Advocate, Kathleen O'Rourke)

That picture by itself is enough to terrify me, nevermind actually being out there hanging off the side of building 300-something feet in the air. Brian Cashman manned up and rappelled down the 22-story Landmark Building in Stamford three freaking times this morning in advance of this weekend’s Heights and Lights even, and Ben Shpigel brilliantly recapped the ordeal. Here’s video. Maybe I’m just a wuss, but that’s insane.

Anyway, here’s tonight’s open thread. The Rangers and Islanders are wrapping up their home-and-home, plus both the Knicks and Nets are in action. Use this thread for whatever your heart desires.

Weekend Writer Update: We’re still pouring through the applications folks, thanks for being patient.

Mattchu12

CASH IS A NINJA!
- Pete C.
  
  That shot looks like something out of Nomass, except it isn’t. I guess just remembering all those WS wins ain’t enough.
- Dustin
  
  Maybe Cashman should start thinking he is spiderman and catch up to the Sox.
http://fmylife.com Bryan L

Edes says the Sox are working on a trade for Adrian Gonzalez using only minor league players…

I don’t buy this at all.
- http://danielslifka.wordpress.com Jerome S
  
  neither will the Padres.
- http://www.twitter.com/ngoral Jake LaMotta’s Left Hook
  
  Me neither. I assume the talks are legitimate, but if I’m Hoyer, major leaguers need to be part of that. Theo is also very stingy with his prospects, so if he actually decides this time to part with Iglesias, Kelly, and whoever else, then I’d be shocked.
  - Big Stein
    
    How can Theo even contemplate trading a future HOF like Casey Kelly?!?!?
    - http://fmylife.com Bryan L
      
      ZOMG YER RITE!
  - http://twitter.com/cephster Ross in Jersey
    
    Don’t forget that Gonzalez is a free agent after the 2011 season and is going to be in line for a huge deal. He’ll only be 29, and will probably want a deal in line with what Tex got. If the Red Sox want to empty their farm system and then pay him a huge contract a year later, I say let them.
    - Chris
      
      A contract that will only be bigger by him moving from one of the worst hitters parks in baseball to one of the best.
      - Jimmy McNulty
        
        I shutter to think what Gonzalez would do in Fenway.
- Sweet Dick Willie
  
  Maybe Hoyer pulls the trigger on Kelly, Kalish (who is close to ML ready), and Anderson.
  
  Don’t forget, AG is a free agent after 2011, so he won’t bring the same haul that Upton would.
  - Jimmy McNulty
    
    Great, a kid who struggled in the EL, JD Drew with out the power and half the patience, and a guy with major strike out problems in the minors for a guy who will go .320/.440/.640 in Fenway.
Samuel

What, no helmet?
http://www.twitter.com/ngoral Jake LaMotta’s Left Hook

Badass bandana and hair
- Jimmy McNulty
  
  I thought he was balding, WTF.
YankeesJunkie

Any thoughts on the WC bids handed out yesterday.
- Esteban
  
  It’s all about the money. Bribery works.
  
  They also better make those stadiums in Qatar with retractable roofs. Average temp in July is 96 degrees.
  - Esteban
    
    And according to Bill Simmons, though I’m not finding much in terms of corroboration, Sepp Blatter bought a $125 million villa in Italy today. Might just be Simmons making stuff up.
    - Guest
      
      Almost certainly. 125 Million Dollar villas…don’t really exist in abundance. And if Sepp Blatter bought one of those babies, I’m pretty sure whole world would know.
- Mark
  
  Money talks, watch the BBC documentary on corruption on the voting panel for the proof.
- Jose the Satirist
  
  A country that is rated a tier-3 trafficking country, has no football tradition, is hot as hell, has sponsorship laws that are modern slavery, has ridiculous alcohol laws, and is in an unstable part of the world sounds like a fantastic place for a major sporting event.
  - http://twitter.com/cephster Ross in Jersey
    
    Don’t forget their government supports Iran’s nuclear proliferation. Certainly a country that deserves attention and financial support!
http://www.twitter.com/tomzig Tom Zig

Every time I try to go to ESPN’s MLB page Flash crashes. Is it just Google Chrome, my computer, or ESPN’s MLB page?
- http://twitter.com/#!/GearCity bigjuan
  
  I think it might be your computer. Worked for me on Chrome and Rockmelt.
Tony

Is it just me or does Cashman suddenly have more hair?
- http://twitter.com/#!/GearCity bigjuan
  
  It’s a wig.
  - YankeesJunkie
    
    It is badass
Kit

Wow, that looks like something I am not insane enough to try.

/terrified
Mark

Is it just me or does that picture make it look like Cash is just holding the rope and not actually tied to anything?
Monteroisdinero

Cash is thinking: I can’t believe Cliff Lee dared me to do this.
- YankeesJunkie
  
  Actually Lee just send Cash a picture of deer and Cash felt motivated to rappel down buildings.
- mike c
  
  cliff hanger?
Yankeegirl49

I think it’s cool as hell and I would love to do that!
- Nostra-artist
  
  Sweeeet. Well do it together and brag about it to all these scard-ee cats.
  - Esteban
    
    Skydiving is cooler
    - Chris
      
      Why would you jump out of a perfectly good plane?
James A

The Nets and Bobcats may be playing the ugliest game in the history of the NBA
neither team will be close to 40 points at halftime
- Hughesus Christo
  
  First mistake: Watching the Nets
  - James A
    
    Yeah I know, I was flipping back and forth between them and the Rangers-Islanders, but I think I’m going to stay away from the Nets from now on
Hughesus Christo

I want to congratulate the Yankees for leaking yet another asshole quote to the press re: Jeter

http://sports.espn.go.com/new-york/mlb/news/story?id=5878632
- Mike HC
  
  I really hope the Yanks give him a fourth year if it comes down to that or him leaving. My bet is that Jeter will get another contract as the Yanks starting shortstop even if he did sign this three year deal.
  - Big Stein
    
    but who would he leave to?
    
    The yanks are already offering twice as much as anyone else would offer.
- JobaWockeeZ
  
  Not kissing his ass =/= being an asshole.
- OldYanksFan
  
  Sounds pretty solid to me.
- Esteban
  
  Should he be making the same in his next contract as he has in his previous contract?
- http://youcantpredictbaseball.wordpress.com bexarama
  
  http://butthurtderekjeterfans.tumblr.com/
  - Hughesus Christo
    
    Give me a call when someone figues out what the Yankees have or will gain from the pissy party.
    - http://twitter.com/cephster Ross in Jersey
      
      There is no indication at all that that “source” is from the Yankees. It could be Buster Olney for all you know.
      
      And yeah, God, the Yankees are bidding against themselves to pay Jeter more AAV than Troy Tulowitzki. What a bunch of jerks.
      
      Is it hard for you to sit down?
icebird753

Mike, I offer you 3 free nights with me in exchange for the writing position.
- whozat
  
  Do…uh…do you normally charge?
OldYanksFan

http://sports.espn.go.com/boston/mlb/news/story?id=5879610
“The Red Sox offered reliever Mariano Rivera a two-year, $30 million deal and were prepared to non-tender closer Jonathan Papelbon, according to a baseball source with direct knowledge of the negotiations.”

Theo… Bus…. Under…. Papelbon
- JerseyDutch
  
  Mo gets another offer and quickly signs. Jeter is holding out for more money when no one else is interested in signing him.
  
  It’s like hot stove on the Bizarro World.
http://www.twitter.com/deanezag Zack

Rod Barjas got $3.8 million……WTF
- YankeesJunkie
  
  The deals so far have been just bewildering, but I guess Barajas had a 1.2 WAR and .200 ISO so it is not the worst deal.
  - http://www.twitter.com/deanezag Zack
    
    I still can’t believe the ‘bidding war’ for Barajas got to 3.8m, at least it’s only a 1 year deal.
    - YankeesJunkie
      
      You would think that the economy would be doing better before deals like this for middling players would happen.
      - http://twitter.com/cephster Ross in Jersey
        
        It’s a weird free agent class. There are really no “just decent” players on the market. The dropoff after the elite players like Lee Crawford and Werth is enormous.
        
        And catching talent is always rare, but especially this year.
- http://youcantpredictbaseball.wordpress.com bexarama
  
  The Dodgers are broke. What the hell are they spending all this money on meh-ass players for?
  - http://twitter.com/Carlosological Carlosologist
    
    Their GM is Ned Colletti. Enough said.
http://twitter.com//TylerWilkinson T-Dubs

If you’re Toronto, would you offer Snider and Hechavarria for Gonzalez?
- bonestock94
  
  No, they’re not close enough to contending to go all out for a 1 year rental…imo
  - http://www.twitter.com/ngoral Jake LaMotta’s Left Hook
    
    I think they are a lot closer than we all think. They were not that bad last year, they’d obviously be in playoff contention in any other division, but all they really lacked was a high team OBP. They had all the power, yet nobody on base.
    
    Their pitching staff will be young and inexperienced next year, and they won’t have as much power with Encarnacion, Buck and Gonzalez gone, but there is no reason to believe that Aaron Hill and Lind won’t have bounce back years.
    
    Also, Tampa’s first baseman, left fielder, and almost all their bullpen is gone… and Boston a great bat behind the plate, so it’s not unreasonable to think that the BJs take advantage of the situation.
    - bonestock94
      
      I think in any other division they’d be a legit threat, but I just don’t see them besting 2/3 of the Yankees, Red Sox, or Rays. Their pitching is good, but is it better than the expected rotations of TB BOS or NY? I’m not sure what to expect from their offense, I don’t see Bautista or Wells getting close to their ’10 seasons. Crazy shit happens though, look at the Padres last year.
  - http://twitter.com/cephster Ross in Jersey
    
    Right, Gonzalez doesn’t have a no-trade but you would assume that he’d want to negotiate an extension. It doesn’t make any sense to trade away top prospects for a guy only a year away from free agency.
- All Star Carl
  
  If you can sign him long term, why not?
  - http://twitter.com/cephster Ross in Jersey
    
    I think that’s the point. They can’t.
- YankeesJunkie
  
  Keep the prospects and build for 2012 and beyond.
- http://www.twitter.com/ngoral Jake LaMotta’s Left Hook
  
  From an outside POV yes, from Toronto’s POV I’m not sure. They have Escobar manning short already so Hechevarria could be expendable, but Snider has a small chance to become Gonzalez-lite.
- http://twitter.com//TylerWilkinson T-Dubs
  
  I don’t think I do either. I just find it hard to believe that no team is willing to offer a young Big Leaguer and a prospect for a year of Gonzalez and 2 draft picks. Toronto was just the first package I could think of.
http://youcantpredictbaseball.wordpress.com bexarama

I no longer need to read LoHud/NYYFans for my lulz. Today, I discovered the archive videos of SNY’s Wheelhouse/Loud Mouths, and I went searching for “Yankees” or what have you.

El. Oh. El.
mbonzo

Substantial progress in Jeter negotiations according to Jon Heyman.
http://twitter.com/SI_JonHeyman/status/10861873649946624
Monteroisdinero

Captain Varitek 1 year $2M

too much/too little?
- mike c
  
  he’s only getting that because of his iconic status
  - Monteroisdinero
    
    Right. Jeets is 10x the icon
- http://youcantpredictbaseball.wordpress.com bexarama
  
  It’s probably a slight overpay and it’s not like he’s really any good but as long as it’s only for one year it’s probably fine.
mike c

jose bautista/HGH (haters gonna hate)
is a FA in 2012, i could see the mets going for him after beltran’s off the books
- mbonzo
  
  Its possible, but I think the Mets are gonna be putting a lot of money in to their farm system. They’re gonna have to resign Reyes and find a second baseman, a center fielder, and possibly a catcher. They’re also probably gonna have to take care of their starting pitching situation, which could be a mess if Santana doesn’t rebound.
  
  I could see the Mets signing Bautista and Rickie Weeks.
ZZ

Some Yankee fans have lost it a bit with this Russel Martin stuff.

To start Mike was incorrect in the chat. Martin broke his hip in addition to tearing his labrum. Before that even happened he produced at Cervelli levels for 2 straight seasons. 2 straight years of being as terrible as Cervelli and now having to deal with coming off a serious hip injury. Not promising.

He was set to make upwards of $6 million if he went to arbitration. Indications were that he would have agreed to a deal for $5 with incentives from the Dodgers.

If Russel Martin were a Yankee the past 2 years and they came to terms with him on a $5-6 million contract Yankee fans would have a heart attack after how awful he was the past 2 seasons.

Then some Yankee fans are saying how great his flexibility is. How many times have we heard that what does it matter if you can play a bunch of positions if you can’t hit?

There is upside there. That is the only attractive thing about Martin. It is not worth trading Cervelli for someone who has produced basically the same as him for 2 seasons, just came off a serious hip injury, and now is in line for $5-6 million. Yankee fans shouldn’t make Martin into someone he isn’t because of their dislike of Cervelli.
- http://twitter.com/cephster Ross in Jersey
  
  You’re ignoring his defense, which any way you slice it is an upgrade to Cervelli. Plus his main upside is his ability to hit some home runs, something Cervelli doesn’t do at all. I mean.. he didn’t even have a line drive that wrapped around the pole. Even guys like Nunez and Pena get those occasionally.
  
  Anyway the trade didn’t go down so it’s pointless speculating about it, and I don’t think there’s any way the Yankees would sign him for anything close to 5m per year. I don’t see Mike or anyone else making Martin out to be a world beater, just that IF he’s available and can be obtained for peanuts, he’d be a good option to split time with Montero this year.
  - mbonzo
    
    Cervelli had a bad year catching in 2010. I love RAB but for a site that always jumps down people’s throats for using their gut on players instead of statistics, why are we ignoring Cervelli’s other years catching? He thew out 41% of runners in the minors and 43% in 2009. This was his first year catching more than 42 games since 2007. Russell Martin is a more proven fielder, but if you had not seen either player’s 2010, you would say Cervelli projects to be the better fielder. I’ll stick with the younger, cheaper, healthier player in Cervelli than the few homeruns you’ll get with Martin.
    - http://www.riveraveblues.com Mike Axisa
      
      Russell Martin is a more proven fielder, but if you had not seen either player’s 2010, you would say Cervelli projects to be the better fielder.
      
      Based on what? Cervelli was miserable defensively this season, there was nothing that would make you think he’d be a better fielder than Martin going forward.
      - mbonzo
        
        I’m saying they’re equal players. Cervelli is a more patient hitter, and Martin is a better power hitter. They’re equal to me, but I’ll take the cheaper and healthier player. People who are saying he’s an awful defender are using 1 season of statistics. This is equivalent to saying Jose Bautista is the best homerun hitter in baseball.
        
        Jimmy McNulty
        
        A more patient hitter? Based on what? Over the past two seasons Martin’s been hitting like .250 yet managing an OBP in the .350s That’s a pretty damn good walk rate…much better than Cervo’s.
    - Jimmy McNulty
      
      In 2009 Cervelli showed the inability to take a walk, in 2010 he showed the complete in ability to hit for power. I doubt pitchers will give him pitches to hit if he can barely get the ball out of the infield.
      - mbonzo
        
        Except he’s been taking walks without power his whole career. I must sound like I love the guy, but I’m just trying to stop people from judging him based on small sample size.
        
        http://twitter.com/cephster Ross in Jersey
        
        You’re doing exactly the opposite, actually. You’re telling us to ignore his largest MLB sample size (2010) and telling us to place more stock in smaller samples (2009) and his stint at the AA level. Does not compute.
        
        And wouldn’t you take the occasional homer over the occasional walk? Wouldn’t everyone?
        
        mbonzo
        
        You’re asking me to look at 90 games behind the plate when we have fielding statistics on 343 professional games listed on baseball-reference, and you’re accusing me of using small sample size. I’m saying look at all 343.
        
        http://twitter.com/cephster Ross in Jersey
        
        No, you’re saying compare minor league statistics to major league statistics and assume everything is equal. They’re not. I’m going by his largest MLB sample size since that’s what, you know, counts.
        
        mbonzo
        
        Well I disagree that major league stats are all that counts. 90 games isn’t enough to decide what kind of a fielder someone is, especially when you’ve never played that many games in 3 years. You’re ignoring a huge sample size and accepting a small one.
        
        http://twitter.com/cephster Ross in Jersey
        
        I respect you defending him. I hope you respect me refraining from just saying NO HE’S A BIG STEAMING PILE OF SHIT
        
        mbonzo
        
        Hah well I think he projects to be one of the better backup catchers.
    - http://twitter.com/cephster Ross in Jersey
      
      This was his first year catching more than 42 games since 2007.
      
      So basically we should ignore Cervelli’s largest sample size behind the plate and trust what he did in AA and in 2009? What kind of statistical sense does that make?
      
      if you had not seen either player’s 2010, you would say Cervelli projects to be the better fielder.
      
      Yeah, and if I cut out 2009 and 2010 I’d say Dustin Pedroia projects to be better than Robinson Cano. You can’t just cherry pick what seasons to count.
      
      I’ll stick with the younger, cheaper, healthier player in Cervelli than the few homeruns you’ll get with Martin.
      
      And assuming he could be obtained on the cheap, I’d go with the better defensive player with occasional pop in Martin over Cervelli – who got exposed when given a starting catcher role.
      - mbonzo
        
        Cervelli has 200+ games in the minors and 40+ listed in the majors before this season. 2010 is not his largest sample size.
        
        2010 was a bad year fielding for him but the rest of his career he was fantastic, but you seem to think that he’ll post a career 17% CS rate.
        
        So Austin Romine fell apart this year after he caught more seasons than he ever did before, does that make him exposed? Cervelli’s only 24, he’s got a history of beinga successful catcher but with a major bump in the road in 2010. He’s better than his 2010 numbers say. Its more likely to me that Cervelli picks up his catching and hits like he did this year, than Martin getting healthy and hitting like he did in 2007 as a backup catcher. On top of that you’ll be paying millions for him compared to Cervelli.
        
        http://twitter.com/cephster Ross in Jersey
        
        1) I don’t count what he did in the GCL and A ball. Why should I? Minor league stats don’t translate into the majors, this should be obvious.
        
        2) Comparing a top prospect developing as a player to Cervelli is silly.
        
        3) How do you know Cervelli is better than what he was in 2010? Just because a player hit for an .850 OPS in the minors doesn’t mean he’s guaranteed to do the same in the majors. Why are defensive statistics any different? He’s facing much, much better players.
        
        4) I’ve said it like 3 times already but I’ll say it again – I wouldn’t touch Martin if he wants a ton of money. I’m assuming he’ll come on the cheap or not at all.
        
        mbonzo
        
        The fielding numbers on baseball reference only show for AA and AAA. They don’t directly translate, but they give you a good idea of what they’re capable of. A player with a 41% cs rate in the minors should not have a 17% cs in the majors.
        
        I don’t think he’ll ever post an .850 OPS, but I am really just talking here about how everyone seems to think his 2010 catching stats are representative of his career.
        
        http://twitter.com/cephster Ross in Jersey
        
        So a sample size of 51 attempts in the minors should count more than 64 attempts in the majors?
    - Jimmy McNulty
      
      Furthermore, Cervelli slugged over .400 just once in his minor league career. That’s pretty putrid.
      - mbonzo
        
        So he can’t slug, and according to you he cant catch and he’s not a patient hitter. Despite what you say he’s consistently walked way above average in the minors and was a monster behind the plate. But lets just judge him on what he did covering for Posada.
        
        JobaWockeeZ
        
        He has a career .750 OPS in his minor league career. It’s decent but not really good. It would be fine if he could play defense which IMO seems like an unknown. With exposed playing time he flat out sucked.
        
        A backup catcher should be able to defend. He could be league average for all I care with the bat but defense is key especially when Montero is being called up.
        
        mbonzo
        
        Well he’s never gonna be a star hitter. I’m just “defending” his defense. He’s not the greatest catcher back there, but his minor league stats say that he should be at least above average. His 2009 catching was one of the best in 40 games, but 2010 was one of the worst in 90 games. I think he’s more likely to be an above average defensive back up catcher than repeat 2010.
  - ZZ
    
    Yeah, if Martin can be had for really cheap he is interesting.
    
    I was referring to the people upset they turned down the trade and just the general level of excitement.
- http://www.riveraveblues.com Mike Axisa
  
  He did not tear his labrum, his agent confirmed as much a week or two ago. He emailed me directly at MLBTR after I posted this originally saying that the labrum was torn:
  
  http://www.mlbtraderumors.com/2010/11/non-tender-candidate-russell-martin.html
  - ZZ
    
    Interesting. I didn’t see that. Thanks.
    
    Sorry for correcting you.
  - JobaWockeeZ
    
    Woah you got agent connections from MLBTR? Niiiice.
    - http://www.riveraveblues.com Mike Axisa
      
      Hah, hardly. He only reached out because I had incorrect info on his client.
      - Jimmy McNulty
        
        Post that Cliff Lee said that he’ll never sign with the Yankees, see what his agent says.
Monteroisdinero

Cervelli will form 1/2 of the greatest Venezuelan catcher duo ever next year. How can 1/2 feel so much smaller than the other?
bonestock94

Wow, I didn’t know Arroyo got an extension, 3/35. Career FIP just under 4.5, innings eater though. Worst contract so far of this offseason? I think so.
- http://twitter.com/cephster Ross in Jersey
  
  Owner loves him. The FO wanted to put him on the block this year to free up payroll and he wouldn’t hear about it.
  - http://www.twitter.com/ngoral Jake LaMotta’s Left Hook
    
    It’s the ring, isn’t it…
    - http://youcantpredictbaseball.wordpress.com bexarama
      
      It’s his beautiful, luxurious locks and dulcet singing voice.
- JobaWockeeZ
  
  Meh innings eating has value. It’s an overpay but with this market teams are going to need to to even keep league average pitchers.
yankees1717

just had a strange thought re Mo: had he signed with LAA or BOS, how would he have done vs. the yanks? would they have hit him better than other teams maybe, because of familiarity? how about jorge, would he have a better chance? IMO it wouldn’t make much of a difference, but what do you guys think?
- http://youcantpredictbaseball.wordpress.com bexarama
  
  I think you could be as familiar as you could get with Mo and you still probably couldn’t hit him very well. It’s just the way he pitches. Yeah some guys have pretty good numbers against him, but I know there was like… one player who had maybe 26 or 27 PAs against him and never even got on base. Carlos Pena is like 0-for-14 with a HBP. Manny had a million appearances against him and is one of the greatest hitters the game has ever known and has pretty meh numbers.
  
  Mosanna in the highest.
  - http://kierstenschmidt.com Kiersten
    
    Yeah I mean the dude’s been throwing the same pitch for 15 years and they still can’t hit him. It might help a little bit (I think that’s why the Sox have had the most success against him), but not much.
Jimmy McNulty

http://phuzion.mirror.waffleimages.com/files/be/be02ee04866ef9a4cf3b6dbaa1377c7e181e1bb3.png
mbonzo

Yankees should offer Wang a minor league contract and have him replace Ace in the bullpen.
- JerseyDutch
  
  Do you think a minor Wang will help?