Yankees agree to sign Rafael Soriano
By
MFIKY. (AP Photo/Steve Nesius)
According to SI’s Jon Heyman, the Yankees have agreed to terms with Rafael Soriano to a three-year, $35 million deal. The deal comes as something of a surprise, since it wasn’t a week ago that Brian Cashman said he would not give up the team’s first round draft pick. They’ve done just that, and have given a relief pitcher $12 million annually.
We’ve talked about Soriano all winter, so there’s nothing much to add to this, at least initially. We’ll be back with a bit more thoughtful reaction later, but for now I’ll say I don’t like it. The draft pick doesn’t bother me as much as the contract. The Yanks get an expensive setup man for two years before he possibly slides into the closer role after Mariano Rivera‘s contract expires. Though, as we know, you can never count on Mo to call it quits.
The one thing I will add right now: I dislike this move less if it moves Joba back to the rotation.
Update: Heyman provides further details. Apparently Soriano can opt out after each of the first two years. So maybe he’ll pitch lights out in 2011 and go bye-bye after the season ends.
Update by Mike: Chad Jennings spoke to someone in the organization that said the Yankees have not had any internal discussions regarding moving Joba back to the rotation. Because the best pitchers should pitch the fewest innings, you know.
Oh, and Buster Olney says Soriano did not receive a no-trade clause. It doesn’t matter, the contract itself is a no-trade clause.
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well, shit.
What. A. Joke.
okay, now we can officially call this a horrible off-season. Didn’t see that dumb move coming, I never really thought the Yanks would even consider signing Soriano. Wasting your money on a setup-man, ROFL.
Let’s hope they sent Joba back into the rotation.
Whiskey
Tango
Foxtrot
::waits to see terms, hoping they aren’t insane::
Yes I’m happy too. I hope it’s $30M or less over three years. If it is it’s great deal. Will likely be higher though.
WHAT!? :*( I already miss the draft pick.
Bye bye draftpick. Guess cashman was full of shit afterall
Yeah, I’d love to hear him explain this one. I bought his “Fantasy land” explanation on Tex, and thought “Bubba Crosby is our CF” was a simple statement of fact. But I don’t see how he can reconcile what he said last week with this.
Why does he owe you an explanation? Why does anyone believe what he says externally? He doesn’t owe us the the truth or his blueprint. His external comments are meant for the teams he’s negotiating with and the agents he’s negotiating with at that time. I’m fine with that.
Well considering what we just paid for Soriano the deception did not pay off.
Nice! Hope it’s a good deal for us!
3 years at 35. We just got bent over.
+1
Prison love is tough.
Joba to rotation? Crossing fingers.
Yes please lol
Eh, really? Oh well, I guess Heyman wasn’t lying.
WUT
Interesting.
Wonder if the price was just too good to pass up.
Could have implications for the Jobber.
Sounds like heyman was right and cashman was lying.
I guess we’ll see who the Yankees pick turns out to be.
I wonder if ‘someone’ will apologize to Heyman?
Is poopy pants jon heyman?
But yea this signing doesn’t look good for ben’s heyman theory and for those who still take cashman at face value
I’m surprised Heyman hasn’t already posted a celebratory tweet needling Ben.
This is very surprising.
My first thought as well…
Thank Mo Javy agreed to not accept arbitration.
Yeah, seriously.
3 for $36 ah hellz to the naw
*mil
Fuck. Me. Running.
3/$35
Thats horrible. Just horrible. WTF Cashman.
Indeed. Laugh at him. He’s a joke. Soriano has never been worth $10M annually and they’re giving him $12M?
So sad.
God dammit that’s such an overpay.
technically, n Cashman Speak, it would be an underpay since Soriano originally wanted four years… just like he underpaid for Jeter… follow?
Boras is the man.
Hopefully joba back to the rotation
The ghost of George Steinbrenner haunts these hallowed grounds.
I’d give Soriano 5/$100 million if it got Joba back in the rotation.
lets not get too crazy lol
i feel like an italian fist-pumping at the new jersey clubbing scene….so much excitement
3/$36? That’s kind of disgusting. Eek. Shortening the game to 7 innings is nice and all, but at 12 million per and a 1st rounder for a reliever, not a fan.
Playing the optimist, though, let’s hope Soriano stays healthy, posts sub 2.00 ERAs the next two years setting up Mo, and then sets the all time single season saves record in year 3.
Then we can pay him 18m a year to close! Sigh.
That’s a lotta cake, a lotta quiche…
Welcome to my bakery.
Twitter says 3 for $35 million, which I hope is a serious typo.
http://twitter.com/SI_JonHeyma.....8144985089
That’s quite a price for a reliever…
so if cashmen was bending the truth with the “no giving up the draft pick for a reliever” does that mean there is hope that his “joba is in the pen for us” is also faulty?
we can only hope lol
Giant meh. Especially if those contract terms are real.
What? 36 million over 3 years? For a reliever? Losing the draft pick?
Wow, Cashman. Wow.
This is fucking retarded.
Its an overpay, but if you have alot of questions in the rotation, load that fuckin pen up…..
like the bawhston?
Boston has no questions in the rotation….FIVE ACES…remember
well, SIX ACES, since Pedroia is on the teamstill and is scrappy enough to step on the mound any time….
I dunno why everyone thinks thats a horrible deal.. Great closer who will slip into Mariano’s role.. Welcome back to a lights out 8th and 9th inning… The simple fact is guys like Joaquin Benoit who set up for Soriano got 3 years 16.5 Million.. That’s really not a bad deal, we had extra money might as well spend it where we need it. Obviously we need starts now, but the markets way too think. I love D-Rob but I don’t trust him as the bridge to Mo.
It gets worse, Soriano can opt out after 1st or 2nd year:
http://twitter.com/SI_JonHeyma.....8239254528
Not good for the Yanks, if the idea is to have Soriano slide in as closer.
That makes it better though. If he pitches well enough to opt out, they get 1 great year of him at $12 million, then get a pick when he leaves.
agreed
Why would he ever opt out?
If he has a great year, you don’t think he can get more than $24M next winter?
It would be a stretch
Why? If he’s coming off another great year and teams need a closer, he’d likely at least get another 3/$36 million. Look what Benoit just got.
2 picks.
Except Cashman will probably surprise us again and not offer arbitration.
That’s GOOD news my friend.
awful. have we learned nothing from signing FA relievers to big deals (Farnsworth, Marte etc.) plus the draft pick makes this beyond awful.
Hey, Marte was the pitching MVP in the ’09 series
No. No, he hasn’t.
Lets not kid ourselves, we all know Cashman just wanted a rhyming bullpen.
This just feels wrong all fucking over. Ugh.
$12 million a year? Really? Rivera is the only reliever who deserves that kind of money.
You can question the Salary amount, but losing the draft pick isnt that bad. I mean you hope your number one pick can one day be a difference maker like Soriano already is
Agreed. I’m not too worried about the draft pick. Soriano gives the Yankees the best pen in baseball and they are gonna need it considering the state of their starting rotation.
aherpaderp
I’m aware of the potential massive downside here, but hey, he is talented. If he can pitch an effective healthy three seasons, maybe we’ll look back on this and smile.
Then again, the Rays did pick Farnsworth over him, so…
Yeah, but they’re broke
Soriano has never pitched 3 healthy seasons in a row…
The one thing I will add right now: I dislike this move less if it moves Joba back to the rotation.
Repeated for emphasis.
This.
The Fate of Joba will have a night and day effect on this deal. Love it if it moves Joba to the rotation, hate it if it doesn’t. I’m anxious to find out.
I’d agree with that.
The only way to redeem this situation is to put Joba in the rotation
riding Soriano and Mo through the playoffs to a championship would certainly be “redeeming”, no?
I guess we can all watch the parade and bemoan that extra $2.5M they spent on Soriano.
Not that I love the deal, but Soriano *IS* really good. I feel like that’s getting lost a little.
Alright that was a stretch, but 12 million for a set up man? Seems, well, a bit unfair
But there’s no way that’s going to happen, Cashman said Joba is in the bullpen!
/cashmansayslotsofthings’d
if joba goes back to the rotation, i’ll approve of this move more…still think we could have had a good reliever or even this one, for less.
Shit, our luck, the only time Cashman tells the truth is regarding Joba and the bullpen.
So if he opts out, we can still offer arb and get a draft pick right?
Heyman might be lying about this awful contract to get back at us for “bashing him”.
If this was a lie, wouldn’t it be proving the critics right (that he doesn’t have ethics)? Pretty easy to prove him wrong if it’s a lie.
I’m sure he’s grinning like a lunatic right now.
of course he’s grinning. what’s .5% of $35M???
We could all be discounting the “Heyman just made that shit up” Factor
gahhhhh!!!!
Jeez, as soon as I convince myself signing Soriano was a bad option, this happens. Figures.
I think you look at it like this:
It’s a one year, $12M contract.
Soriano will opt out and the Yankees will get 2 draft picks in 2012.
If you think about it like that, it makes sense.
They aren’t giving up the pick so much as postponing it (though to a weaker draft).
Boras saves face, provides downside protection for his client. But as long as Soriano is healthy, he’ll opt out.
Interesting deal for both sides.
Yeah, they are postponing to a weaker draft, but if he opts out, they get one year of a good to great setup man as the trade off.
I don’t see him opting out next year though. I doubt he could get more money in such a heavy closer market.
did you think he’d get $12 to set up?
never doubt Boras.
the market may be heavy, but he’ll be top dog.
I thought the Yankees could go that far. No other team would.
yeah i think this opt out situation makes it about 80 percent easier to swallow… if he stays healthy hell probably pitch well seeing as itll be the same batters he faced last year minus the yankee lineup… then he opts out with another year healthy and another year of big time relief pitching (this time in the bright lights of new york)gets a good closing contract and the yankees get a better pick in next years draft plus one (albeit in a less talented draft but theres always talent to be had)and a full year of shutdown 8th and 9th innings…
This is actually a really good way of looking at it. If it works out as planned, the Yankees get a great reliever for one year plus 2 draft picks in next year’s draft. Interesting.
If we’ve learned nothing else from Javy Vazquez, we should have learned that draft pick compensation should NEVER be considered part of the deal.
He’s never been worth $10M and they’re giving him $12M?
I think you are giving te open market too much credit. face it, what other asshole NOT named Cashman or MInaya would pay a closer $15M a season? or a set up man $12M??? For real for real, yhe only way this works out is if someone hires Omar minaya to run their team…
no, its genius. We’re going to more Soriano to the starting rotation then we have a dominate starter for cheap. It only makes sense that if he have a 1.73 ERA in 60 innings that he could have a lower ERA in 200 innings… just think of all the extra practice he would be getting
I laughed.
Seriously though, I do question why Soriano was ever moved out of the rotation to begin with way back when.
Probably because he couldn’t stay healthy. He still hasn’t done that as a reliever.
Well I am pissed
I’m kind of disappointed about not getting the draft pick and signing a not particularly healthy reliever to a three year deal. I’m trying to think of something positive about the deal, but I don’t think Soriano is worth this kind of money to be a set-up man (which is a completely over-rated role). Adding one good reliever won’t make the rotation better, but if this does push Joba into the rotation, like Joe suggested, then I guess that would be pretty good.
Well, the positive part of the deal is that Soriano is really, really good.
it’s too much money, but the 2011 yankees just improved.
yeah…if he doesn’t get hurt. And it’s not like he’s the picture of health.
sigh. The only way this deal turns out well is if he pitches great, stays healthy, and opts out. Otherwise, it’s nothing but risk for the Yanks.
I guess one upside is that there’s basically no reason not to sign other relievers now, if you can get them on short deals. 2nd and third round picks don’t matter for shit.
Also, PLEASE tell me this means that the other legit starting candidate on the team actually pitches in the rotation. We talk about these other guys who pass the better than Mitre test…and THERE IS ONE SITTING IN THE PEN.
Good? He’s never even been worth 2 wins. He’s good in the sense that Karsay was good.
Awful.
Hopefully everyone can get their kneejerk Boverreactions out of the way soon. I don’t hate this, but that doesn’t mean I like it.
No! fuck man…seriously? One year for 12 ok, buy 3 years….what the fuck cashman? this reeks of pre-cashman era. he’s making almost as much as Mo!!!!!damn it damn it damn it. what a fucking waste.
Heyman just said that he can opt out after every year, so it may just be 1 year 12 million
It may, but what if he gets injured? then its a 3 year 36 mill mess. the possibility of a one year doesn’t make this any better.it just gives the player more leverage.
Can you say Nick Johnson at triple the money and years. What the hell other than Puljois what other good free agents are out there after 2011 and it isn’t my money. It may make 2011 more bearable. Spahn and Sain and pray for rain.
But then why lose the draft pick for one year?
This draft was going to be talent-rich.
I hope you’re being sarcastic.
This is the MLB draft we’re talking about. A crapshooot where Luke Hochevar and Kris Benson are number 1 picks
Both of whom provided more value to the team than paid so they were both good draft picks.
Actually Hochevar has made over $6mm and has a career WAR of -.5. So he’s definitely not earned his money.
That is bWAR because fWAR has him at 5.3 WAR which is more than enough to cover any deal he got from the Royals as a signing bonus.
The point about the 2011 draft is valid, but you’re not “losing” the pick in that situation, you’re trading 1 pick in 2011 for 2 picks in 2012.
You’re trading 1 pick in 2011 and $12 million for 2 picks in 2012 and a good to great setup man. If he pitches well enough to opt out, this signing is a win.
Agree. This is exactly how I’m looking at it now that I know all of that. That’s the only way I see it as a worthy deal, and like it. Only other way is if he is shutdown and healthy for years 1-3 (in which case he would’ve opted out), but it’s also not going to happen. Far too much risk and downside for me to like it, but there is def an upside, but there’s like a 20% chance it works out that way, the risk/downside is too much to justify the contract. Though I’ll be optimistic that it can be good should this situation occur, I just don’t like risking clogging up years of payroll on a setup man, or any reliever, don’t really like putting $ 3+ yrs down the line unless it was for Lee.
I like the deal. We all know Cash’s MO of saying one thing and doing another move that benefits the team. Maybe this puts Chamberlain back into the mix for the rotation.
I know it’s no consolation for the rotation…
but the 2011 Yankees pen is fucking good.
No it’s not. It has potential. But besides Mo, noone is a sure thing. I like drob and logan but who knows if those guys are going to regress? PS. Joba is garbage.
Ugh. I like Soriano, I do not like the terms of this contract or his Type A status…
Me want Jobie to startie!
Well my first reaction to the move was a loud audible groan and that is mainly because the Yanks are losing a draft pick over this. The only good thing is he will be able to opt out after year one or year two and the Yanks will get a draft pick if that is how arbitration to FA works after the new CBA. This makes the Yankees better in the short run and the deal seems like an overpay in AAV just because there really did not seem to be a market for Soriano, but he was probably going to get 10+ mil AAV from whomever acquired him. However, I do not like this move, but if Soriano can pitch as well as he did in 2009 and 2010 and maybe leaves a year or two in the deal it might not be so bad. Also, if Joba moves back to the rotation I think that is easily worth five million right there.
I don’t mind losing a pick in this draft if it means 2 picks next year, even if the quality is less.
I still don’t like losing the draft pick and now the Yankees have over 30 million in the pen for the next two years most likely. I can’t see Soriano opting out after next year when it is basically the year of the closer in the FA market.
ummmm 73M invested in the bullpen this off season(before artirtations), and $4.5M invested in the rest of the team. and that was a backup catcher… and by the way, Sergio Mitre is starting every 5th day.
do not feed me anything on draft picks today or tomorrow… this is just a little worrysome is all
One thing I DONT like about this is it took us all away from the Awesome Ruben Sierra Open Thread
this.
Mo-Soriano-Robertson-Joba-Logan-Felciano-________
Who am I missing?
GAUDIN!!
Brackman. Heh.
Mitre with any luck at all.
Luck for who ? Id like to see Mitre get a shot at the rotation……..The Pirates Rotation that is
Cash had money to burn without Andy and Cliff. An expensive insurance policy for our 41 year old closer who could easily get injured/overused and will increasingly be unable to go back to back games. I like it. A 31st pick might contribute in 5 years-probably not.
$12MM for a middle reliever. That’s a joke, right?
Am I a joke to you? Us relievers have a very tough job to do keeping teams in the game. I think I, as well as many of my relieving peers, are well worth that money!
And your the best fighter in MLB…..So we dont want any trouble man
Well, a setup man, not a middle reliever. And he could close for most teams.
This doesn’t mean I like the deal because I hate it.
That term is really just splitting hairs.
Agreed
A “middle reliever” describes not only a role, but also a QUALITY of pitcher.
Just as closer describes both a role and a QUALITY of pitcher, ditto for #1 starter, #5 starter, etc.
Soriano is a closer in quality, pitching in the role of middle relief.
He is a “relief ace” if you prefer that term.
the Yankees didn’t give $35M to Chad Bradford.
No, Steve Karsay.
Well its more like 12 million a year to a top 5 reliever who happens to be the second best reliever on the team.
well the rays signed farnsworth…but this still sucks major ****. joba has to be put back in rotation now, theres no way he’d be anywhere near mitre. i also hate the “elite bullpen” concept. if mitre is awful for 3 innings…soriano isnt going to help that out. come playoff time, maybe things work out, but ugh 12 mill is a disgusting number
Does a good bullpen carry more weight in the post-season than in the regular season?
No, a good top of the rotation probably does because the fifth starter is eliminated and sometimes the fourth.
I’d say so.
Just read that Soriano is the 5th highest payed reliever behind Lidge, Mo, K-Rod, and Nathan at an annual value. Also says Papelbon’s 2011 salary may also figure in the equation.
One can argue that Soriano rtight now is better than 2 or maybe three of those guys
and that makes it any better of an investment?
He’s better than all except for the lord himself (Mo)
Between the first and supplemental rounds, the Rays now have seven picks.
The rich get richer…
I think Cash saw the haul they got for Garza and just threw his hands up and said “whatever, 2 more picks isn’t going to matter…”
either way, *someone* was going to sign Soriano, so it’s not like the Yankees added to their total.
Acutally its 9, qualls signed today and he was a type B
They’ll have 11 if/when Balfour sings elsewhere
This is so stupid. Maybe Girardi will be willing to use him in the sixth or seventh or whenever the big trouble comes, rather than marry him to the eighth.
Yeah right…
What was your idea or solution? Not being sarcastic, just asking
Save the god damn draft pick. Save your god damn money when a starter becomes available. Use his original plan of PATIENCE.
This is a horrible mismanagement of resources.
He’s pitching 60-70 innings in a HOME RUN BALLPARK with flyball numbers like Javier Vazquez.
I just saw the 2011 schedule. The Yankees will be playing half their games on the road this year.
Being a dick fail. Javy played half of his games in YS3 and he had the highest HR rate ever.
Well then, that proves that Soriano will be a disaster.
Because the 2 pitchers have comparable stuff.
It was Yankee Stadium, not a steady diet of 87 MPH fastballs that lead to all of those HRs.
There are plenty of legitimate reasons to hate the deal without having to invent doomsday scenarios.
Soriano is a stud. In his CAREER, opponents have hit .193/.259/.332 off him. He’s K’d 9.6 batters per 9. He’s a dominant pitcher.
This implication that he’s some sort of park-factor mirage is just nutty. Take a deep breath.
One problem
New York City and their inhabitants don’t understand the word “patience”
Actually if you think about it, it’s in a small way our fault because we keep calling into talk shows complaining about Cashman and screaming for a move now. And when he finally does it, there’s more complaining.
So perhaps, if you think its a bad idea, maybe we should blame ourselves a bit
Cashman should rise above the pile of garbage known as the citizens of the tri-state area, not stoop down to it.
I don’t like you, but this made me laugh (and I’m from NY).
If Cashman is basing decisions on the jumping the bridge fans then he shouldn’t be a GM to begin with.
Goodbye! Me am Bizarro Cashman! Me number one Yankees fan, me hate Cashman. This deal great, is worst deal Bizarro Cashman ever heard! I will force Earth-One Barry Allen Flash to run backwards around planet so I can go back in time and sign Cliff Lee. Then I will call Karim Garcia and see if he would like play right field. Also find Ben McDonald, see what he is up to – lots of upside there. My plan to sign Jayson Werth, trade for Vernon Wells and also lower Yankee payroll thwarted! Arrgh! Bizarro Cashman hate these Yankees! Bizarro Cashman will return again, sign Pete Rose Jr for hitting instructor – make Cashman pay! That is all for now, Bizarro Cashman say hello!
The Tea Party made him do it.
Solution for what? They just threw a hand grenade at an ant hill. It’s overkill and a terrible use of resources.
What I meant is how would go about spending the money?
Who did you want to pick up?
You don’t have to pick anyone up. Someone will want to unload a contract by the deadline. Wait till then.
See: Wood, Kerry, we gave up nothing for him
Yeah, that was Joba in 2007, too. History repeats itself.
Yankees have Boone Logan for those situations.
Yeah, but do you could think that many if any managers would do that? I bet that number could be counted on one hand.
I’m sure he’ll use him in the 7th. The 6th would be pretty extreme, because you wouldn’t have him for a few days if he goes 2-3 innings and/or you’ll be using your lesser guys in the 8th if you pull him early.
Not multi-innings, but if you’re in a one run game and 3-4-5 are coming up, you burn Soriano in the 6th. Its logic, whether or not its employed.
(Well, assuming the starter is done. If Carsten is kicking ass in a 1-0 game, obviously you don’t pull him. Its all in the binder.)
Some possible explanations
“We don’t view him as a middle reliever, but as a Closer who could eventually replace Mo”
“Since it appears Andy isn’t coming back, we had to shift gears and find a reliever so we could move Joba back to the rotation”
“Ticket sales are WAYYY behind last year, so I had to do SOMETHING”
By the time Mo’s contract is up Soriano will be 33. IMO that’s a little too old to be signing a reliever to “eventually replace Mo.” Even good relievers are volatile enough to make that a very high risk proposition.
3 year deal, Mo signed for two.
The Yankees just got better. Thats good enough for me. Spare me the whining about the lost draft pick and the too much money for a reliever.
I don’t disagree. The Yanks were on the verge of this being a transition year if Andy retires. A 90-93 win transition year, maybe good enough for a WC, but this signing improves their chances for 2011.
By 2 wins, at most. Woooooooo! They could have done the same simply moving Joba to the rotation….
..and if they do both? I guess that’s 4 wins?
I agree 100%. Draft picks are a lottery ticket, it is not my money, and it won’t impact any other moves. This team improved by adding the best pitcher available as a free agent. This is a good thing.
AHHH HUGE CONTRACT ANNDD OPT OUTS??!?!
actually, if it weren’t for the pick, i wouldn’t mind this nearly as much
Ummm…if the money scares you so much, then why are you worried about the opt-outs? I’d think you’d be hoping he uses it.
WTF. WHY.
Considering Papelbon is going to make 10 million when he’s not NEARLY as good as Soriano makes me feel a little better. The fact is all these players are now making crazy amounts of money. If Papelbon can make 10 million anyone can..
Thank you
Doesn’t make it right. And Soriano is going to be second to Mo.
As much as I hate Papelbon for being a whiny little bitch and all, he is actually really, really good. his 2010 was completely unlike him but prior to that he was arguably the best reliever in baseball est. 2005, non-Mo division. He deserved the 10 mil.
Fictional reaction from Mariano Rivera:
“You gave who what now?”
I’ve always been a Cashman supporter, but now this?
What have we done this offseason other than sign some pricy relievers? What good will they be if there’re no good starters to actually pass the baton to them (I know there aren’t any good starters out there right now, but still, Cashman should at least be focusing on finding a way to actually get one or save the money for one)?
Hey! They also overpaid a SS who had NO leverage!
I disliked that move as well, but at least it’s understandable. Jeter is “the face of the organization”, or so say a lot of fans.
maybe Joba won’t be put into the rotation, but TRADED for a starting pitcher.
all of these things are in play.
Good point
If he could have been had for a starter I think they would have done it by now.
*coughHarencough*
I’m not convinced it was a Joba centered package. Wasn’t ManBan supposed to be apart of it?
http://www.mlbtraderumors.com/.....urday.html
“ESPN’s Jayson Stark says the Yankees were “never close” to a deal for a Haren, having rejected a D-Backs’ proposal that would have sent Joba Chamberlain, highly regarded pitching prospect Ivan Nova, and two others to Arizona.”
Depending on those other 2, which I assume would be 2 C prospects, I would have done it. But, I’m just assuming.
help me out here for a minute… why (besides being the best of whats around) is everyone still so high on Nova??? his 2010 was journeyman-esque at best…
I honestly don’t know.
I guess it’s that 2.86 ERA that he had in AAA in 2010 that got him the attention.
following that logic, the “winningest pitcher in SWB history” should have got the call up first, no?
still scares the hell out of me.
On first glance, I don’t like this move at all. On second, I might dislike it less once we see how it plays out. If it lets them send Joba back to the rotation, that’ll be a huge plus. It’ll also help if it leads to them using better relievers in a fireman role earlier in the game, which we saw Girardi do a few times last year anyway. If we still see (this year’s Chad Gaudin) come in a close game against a division rival with men on base even with this bullpen…
If Joba moves into the rotation and throws 180 innings of league average ball, that’s basically +2 WAR. That’s being conservative; he could be closer to 3-4 WAR if the whole “reliever FIP + 1 = starter FIP”. This is opposed to Mitre/Nova who are hardly locks for that many innings, much less at that level. Mitre’s 4.34 xFIP, mostly from relief, tells me he’s below average at best. His FIP was 4.69 anyway. Nova projects similarly. So by having Joba start over one of those two bums, we should get at least 2 WAR, possibly 3-4, and Soriano was worth about 2 WAR as a reliever, as opposed to Joba’s 1.4 last season. Realistically I’d say by signing Soriano and moving Joba to the rotation (please!) we gained a swing of 3-4 wins. Not bad.
Yes
So let me get this right we payed 12 million for a guy no other team was willing to come close to paying. we give up a draft pick in a loaded draft and “he” can opt out when he wants. i am 100% sure cashman walks into negotiations bends over and grabs his ankles.
unbelivable.
truth be told, if Soriano signed for 3/18, I would be jumping through my shorts… but 3/45 is a shit-ton of money for someone who will not be starting every 5th day…. which happens to STLL be a glaring hople on this team. jus sayin
Well Cashman lied when he said that they weren’t giving up a draft pick for Soriano, so maybe he lied when he said Joba will be in the bullpen period.
Joba as a starter is the only way for this move to make any sense. And even then it’s a hard pill to swallow, considering they’re giving a division rival another 1st Round pick……..especially when they could have just made Joba a starter without any move.
Well Cashman lied when he said that they weren’t giving up a draft pick for Soriano, so maybe he lied when he said Joba will be in the bullpen period.
Repeated for emphasis.
i think Cash knows andy ain’t coming back so the yanks have had internal discussions about moving joba to the rotation creating a hole for Soriano..
the bolster the pen because the roation is thin argument is also likely.
i think the yanks are paying more money to the closers than some teams’ entire payroll.
Said it above, but seems kind of shady, and may be the first time, I’m not going to feel like defending the Yankees payroll situation
This is a joke, right? Right?
RIGHT?!?!?
It’s funny that everyone is now penciling Joba into the rotation. I think that’s the right move (if they think his shoulder can handle it) but…..I think one thing is clear:
At this point, none of us know WTF their plan is.
The Yankees #5 starter for 2011 is…
Alex Rodriguez
No, it’s Swisssshher
why is it funny…it seems to be the only viable option. no one feels comfortable with either nova or mitre…or God forbid both of them in the rotation.
It’s okay man. Soriano makes them better.
agree..its a ton of money for a second closer but it kind of makes sense. and all this tells me is Andy definitly ain’t coming back. i hope joba returns to the rotation and stays there.
It was sarcasm. Soriano will not help the rotation in any way shape or form. They’re not putting Joba in the rotation especially when they’re dead set on wasting resources.
How can Soriano come in when potentially 3 of our starters are auto 5 ER per start?
I agree, I just think it’s funny that we (myself included) are assuming we know what is going to happen when this came so far out of LF.
Do we know is it player option only?
Of course it is.
has to be..yanks never have team options on anyone decent.
Oh I get it, we did this to get a discount at Andruw Jones. Not.
Trying to find a reason to like this contract. Having a VERY hard time.
There’s only one reason:
Soriano improves the team.
It’s too much money and the pick makes it worse, but that’s the reason. He’s good.
he is good…i’ll give him that.
Yeah, but it kills some of their flexibility to make other moves in the future(I can’t believe I just said that about the Yankees.)
Jobber da startah.
Joba to the rotation and best bullpen in baseball?
I’d love this plus the best bullpen out there.
1. CC
2. Hughes
3. AJ
4. Joba
5. Duchscherer
But honestly, I don’t think the Yankees needed to give him this big a contract.
because we will not have to watch him strike out a-rod on 3 straight pitches in 2011, and maybe through 2014… so theres that.
right before the deal was signed, andy called cashman and told him to take the job and shove it…he ain’t workin’ here no more!
What a ninja move!
No use sugarcoating it: I hate this move. It doesn’t make sense. What the fuck, Cash?
Why do we care about losing pick #31? This is a deep draft, but it’s not deep enough to get #31. I agree the contract isn’t great, but it’s not like it’s prohibiting future moves.
The first round average WAR per player is around one. Soriano had a 1.6 WAR last year.
What is the average WAR for #31?
That’s what i’m thinking and pretty much sums up why I think Cashman pulled the trigger on Soriano.
I think this signing actually moves the Yanks OUT of the top 50; Maybe even top 75. Oh wells. Cashman just bought some very good, albeit very expensive, insurance in case Mo ever gets hurt.
Well, at the very least it provides something to talk about? Maybe Cashman realized we were all getting bored. Thanks, Cash
no kidding..i was on the site 10 min ago and this thread was not on here and look at it go!
Anyone else here have a feeling that this move spells the end of Joba in pinstripes? Think about it, they now have a top setup man, and don’t think Joba is a starter they’ll probably end up trading him and a couple relievers for someone. Thoughts?
*I meant prospects and not relievers.
Seems like Pettite may have been a Domino waiting to fall
i think that’s the only logical explanation for this. its getting late for a deal with andy and just the other day he said he hasn’t gotten his ass off the couch yet to exercise. he’s still eating his figgy pudding.
Except Heyman actually reported the exact opposite the other day
The opposite of what? Sure seems odd that one week after he swore he wouldn’t give up the draft pick, Cashman says something about Pettite not playing (Not even sure what was said after all the reports), then Soriano signs, no?
I guess Jon Heyman was correct …
I don’t hate this move bc Soriano gives the Yanks the best closing 1-2 punch in baseball. We’re not going to lose many 4-3 leads in the last couple innings.
Its an interesting move for a different reason. I wonder if this is a sign that Cashman doesn’t think that the ELITE players of the 2011 draft class are gonna fall to #31 or are as many in number as previously thought.
you think this combo is better than jenks/papelbon?? c’mon now!!
Well, at least he’s got a cool nickname.
You know Girardi is only going to call him “Sori.”
Anyone know where to find stats outlining Yanks record when leading after 6th, 7th, and/or 8th innings?
Just read this:
As Javier Vasquez (Type B free agent) and the Florida Marlins came to terms on a deal, the Yankees will net themselves a protected supplemental round pick in next year’s draft. This ensures the Yankees a first-round pick should they lose theirs in the course of signing a Type-A free agent.
http://nomaas.org/2010/11/the-.....uez-trade/
So we still have a first round pick anyway
Meh it’s all the way down in the 50′s. More second round.
Which absolutely sucks but hey… that’s life.
Here’s hoping Yanks pick up the no-holds bar best player still on the board with that pick. If “hard” cases like Zach Lee and Nick Castellanos can sign, then the Yanks should have no hesitation in drafting a kid asking for redic money.
That’s weak, counting a supplemental as a 1st rounder.
I’m just saying what the article said
Right, I’m just reacting to it. Nothing personal.
and here’s another negative NoMaas brought up.
“The proof can be seen in his 2010 splits. Despite his sparkling 1.73 ERA for the season, his xFIP versus LHB was a beefy 4.42. His career xFIP versus lefties is 4.13. According to Stat Corner, Yankee Stadium increases lefty HRs by 24%. If used properly, he’d basically be a ROOGY. Is that worth 3 years, $30 million?”
Me no like.
I think people get WAY too involved our draft picks–these picks are coming at the end of the round when almost ALL of the impact talent is gone, and even the money guys slipping are getting gobbled up by the Red Sox of the world who draft before us.
Who cares about the pick Cashman would of probably drafted Cito Culver
Not gonna like I laughed.
What’s wrong with Culver? There were many worse options. He’s actually not bad at all.
“There were many worse options”
Exactly. Like every guy taken from the 6th round on.
I wonder who the Yanks were competing with that he got this much money, and an opt out? Also don’t really get the Yanks offering him the opt out, if he is awful he will stay, and if he is great he will opt out, and the Yanks will let him go or have to offer him more money? Would they be able to offer him arbitration if he opted out?
the union..they wouldn’t let him take a pay cut
Would they be able to offer him arbitration if he opted out?
Yes.
In fact, I wouldn’t be surprised if the Yankees are counting on him opting out.
If it was a straight one year deal, would people like it more? I think I would.
BUT THE DRAFT PICK! WE COULD HAVE LANDED THE NEXT IAN KENNEDY THIS YEAR I KNOW WE COULD HAVE!
Or Cito Culver or Jeremy Bleich
YES WE GOT AN 8TH INNING GUY!!!!! A BRIDGE TO MO! AND WE HAVE TWO BRIDGES TO MO! YAY! ONLY COSTS 12 MILLION DOLLARS!
Yeah, doesn’t matter robertson and joba are just as reliable, definitely.
In my opinion, they only downside of not having the first rounder is that you don’t get a lottery ticket. The only reason the rays are in really good position is that with 9 (and will get to 11) picks, they have a lot of high tickets so the odds they strike it rich on one or two is greater.
Assuming the Rays pony up the bonus cash for all of those high selections.
I have the NoMaas photoshop for this move.
You take a screenshot of ‘I Love Lucy’ with Lucille Ball and Ricky Riccardo. You have Brian Cashman’s face plastered over Lucy’s, with Ricky Riccardo screaming “BRIAN, YOU HAVE SOME SPLAINING TO DO!”
PUT JOBA IN THE ROTATION? CASHMAN IS NOT A REALLY GOOD LIAR.
SORIANO FOR BASSICALLY ONE YEAR IS A GOOD DEAL.
When was the last time that a Yankee first round pick has been an impact player — Jeter? Also, it seems that everyone assumes that Mariano will be healthy for the next two years. In addition, even if Mariano is healthy, Soriano can lighten his load to make sure he is fresh for important games and the playoffs. Not a bad decision at all. And I do like opening up the possibility of moving Joba into the rotation. I hope he gets a chance.
Does Hughes count yet?
Who cares about the draft pick? We have those supplemental picks from Berkman and Wood….oh, that’s right. Never mind.
+10000.
I’d love to see us in 3 or 4 years trying to replace Jeter, Posada, and the 3 holes in the rotation without any high picks.
Keep an eye on that Nunez kid. He’s got spunk.
Posada = Montero, Jeter = On the team in 3 years, and I’m fairly sure your probably one of the same people who is all about the “OH MY GOD THE KILLER BEES!!!!” so, I think it’ll work out just fine.
I’m sure you’re one of the people who are like “HOLY SHIT YOUR A FUCKTARD FOPR LIKING PROSPECTS!” so I’m surprised you’re going this way.
And I don’t care if Jeter is here for 3 years. He’s going to replaced soon. You better be the last person to bitch if the Yankees can’t find adequate replacements.
Lol, no I’m one of the lets sign a guy who will give us a lock down 8th inning type of guy rather than hold out hope for signing another ian kennedy with our 31st pick. And yeah adequate replacements, I think Hanley Ramirez is a free agent the year Jeter’s contract expires. Get a hold of yourself chief.
Based on historical figures the 30th pick in the draft is worth roughly 10 WAR to a team over the first 6 years of their MLB career which would be about 9-10 years when factoring in MiLB time. I’d rather get 2-7 WAR over the next 3 years. And the money won’t affect their pursuit of anyone else, especially with next years free agent crop looking terrible as well.
Does that factor in all the guys who never make it?
Yea, every time I think that Cashman is doing a good job, he does something like this. Were we bidding against ourselves again?
This just means less money available to resign Sterling and Waldman.
/it’s all good
+1
LOL
Best comment on this thread
I think Joba has to start at #4 and Nova #5. Both are high risk. With Burnett also a by question mark, this will be a high wire type year. We also have to hope that Hughes can pitch well again. I keep thinking the Yanks are going to miss the playoffs. They basically lost Pettitte and failed to sign Lee and have no replacements for either. Nova and Mitre won’t cut it, neither will adding Joba.
Only thing that can save the starting pitching at this point would be a Burnett turnaround, another dominant CC year, Hughes winning close to 20 again, and an offensive explosion that glosses over no 4th or 5th starter. Too much to ask for.
Look, I understand that there are negatives to this signing, but I think people are really over-reacting. I’m not denying the down sides (the money, the length of the contract, Soriano’s injury history, etc.). But there are positives, too:
1) The guy has been a very good pitcher. He now pitches for the Yanks. That’s good.
2) This doesn’t go against the patience strategy, necessarily. They still have $20 million under the budget for 2011 (according to Heyman), so they can still sign a fourth outfielder and have plenty left over for a starter if one becomes available.
3) With the opt outs, they can get back the #1 and the supplemental.
4) One of the problems with weak spots in the rotation is that the bullpen gets burned out. Having another high-end arm in the pen helps the distribution of innings.
Again, not saying there aren’t issues. But it’s not all negative like most of the comments would have you think.
As an aside, why are people busting on Cashman for not telling the press the truth? I want him to do what’s best for his negotiating position, which sometimes means downplaying the team’s interest.
1. He’s been good for two years. Two fricken years. He has no track record. 50 percent of his outs are flyballs. In Yankee Stadium.
2. One day after Pettitte’s final decision this happens. I don’t see patience at all.
3. In a worse draft and you’re kidding if you think the Yankees don’t give him a 20 million dollar AAV extension.
4. I don’t see how Soriano helps when AJ, Nova and Mitre give up 5 runs in 4 IP.
So please give me some insight on which kid you had your heart set on drafting with that pick. I’m all ears.
Poopy Pants? Your trolling still sucks.
How is this trolling anymore than you? You’re the one going from thread to thread spouting your same shit over and over. Why can’t you name a pick, you seem to really have your sights set on somebody. Dick.
Also lol @ poopy pants, you’re on your game buddy.
Pettitte didn’t make his final decision yesterday though
1) Actually, he has had four seasons of more than 50 games and a WHIP under 1.1. So you’re selling him short.
2) Patience = not making a deal that keeps them from making other deals. Signing Soriano doesn’t stop them from doing anything they can/need to do. It’s January 13. I’m not sure you can accuse Cash of not being patient.
3) We can criticize an extension if/when it happens (and it will never be $20 million AAV). How can you do it now? Let’s criticize Cash for giving Swish a 20-year, $45 million per year extension. That would suck. Oh, wait, Cash hasn’t done that yet (nor has he done it for Soriano). And while draft picks, as a general rule, are very important, any ONE pick (especially not in the top 5 or 10) is not as important as a quality player.
4) Clearly, he doesn’t. But that’s an extreme view that assumes that Nova and Mitre will be the #4 and #5 starters all year. And while the guys in those places (I think Nova is a better bet to get a spot than Mitre) will not be Lee and Pettitte, the fact remains that another high-end arm will help avoid burnout.
Again, nobody is saying that there aren’t negatives to the signing. But you’re hyperbolic reaction lacks perspective, in my opinion.
1. From 2008 to the beginning to Soriano’s career his FIP has been below 3 ONCE. And in that timeframe he’s been worth 3.7 WAR. In 7 years. That’s elite how?
2. “Patience is the state of endurance under difficult circumstances, which can mean persevering in the face of delay or provocation without acting on annoyance/anger in a negative way.”
Signing an inconsistent reliever is not a positive thing. Especially for 12 million dollars when no one outside of Mariano Rivera made a 3 year deal worth it.
3. If you can give me an assurance the draft pick will either A) be a bust or B) serve no purpose in being a trade chip and C) that Soriano magically replicates his numbers from TB in a bandbox and with a lesser defense then Soriano is worth the pick. He won’t be.
4. Another high end arm gives us 2 WAR at the very most. That barely affects the team and it’s not worth 12 million dollars per year. Especially since it’s no given lock he’ll be elite.
Negotiating position? He got 12 million to set up, what exactly did Cashman negotiate?
You obviously have inside information on what other teams were offering. Please share it with us. I’d love to hear about it.
Have you seen the deals relievers are getting? Benoit got 3/$17 million. Bobby Freakin’ Jenks got 2/$12 million. Closers cost money, and to get Soriano, it had to be closer money.
I don’t have inside information, but it’s not as if they got some deal. Basically, no one was willing to give up the money that the Yankees were. I’m not really sure how you can argue that point?
The point is that if you go into a negotiation, you want to keep as much leverage as possible. And saying publicly you don’t want to give up a pick makes you seem less desperate. I have no idea (nor do you) if it saved the Yanks a dollar, but that doesn’t change my original point: I would much rather Cash said to the press whatever was best for his negotiating position. And saying he wasn’t interested was unquestionably better for his position (regardless of what the deal turned out to be).
Again, you have zero idea what the other offers were. Zero. The A’s offered almost $80 million to Beltre. Would you have predicted that? Did you have the Reds shelling out for Chapman? You don’t know.
If your suggesting there were higher offers, but Soriano decided to not only take less, but not close, it seems foolish. Once again, the Yankees simply outbid everyone
No, I didn’t say that at all. I said we have no idea what the bids were, how much the Yanks’ outbid other teamsby, etc. Having the highest bid can be Tex (a bit more than the Sox) or A Rod (100s of millions above what the next highest team would have paid). Big difference. Maybe by not acting desperate, Cash paid less than he would have otherwise. Who knows? I don’t. And either do you.
And, again, the original point (that you seemingly keep moving away from) is that I want Cash to do what’s best for his leverage (regardless of the actual result), so I don’t give a crap if he lies to the press.
1) You are cherry picking stats to make a point. No team in baseball would turn down a reliever with a WHIP of 1.083, 0.861, 1.057, or 0.802 for 53, 71, 77 and 64 games, respectively. Those are elite numbers.
2. He was patient in that he didn’t leap on December 10 and sign a reliever, nor did he sign one of the reclamation project starters for too much money early on to the Yanks’ disadvantage. I’m happy with his approach. He was patient, he waited out the market, and then, on January 13, with nearly all the elite free agents gone, he made a move that, again, does not prevent other needed moves. Patience.
3. The whole point of the draft is that you get no assurances. Sometimes you get Phil Hughes, and sometimes you get C.J. Henry. It’s a crap shoot. Which is why you have to respect your picks, but at the same time, any one pick is never as important as a contributing major leaguer. And I would classify Soriano as well above average, so he is definitely more valuable than one #31 pick.
4. Are you paying the $12 million? No. Is the $12 million stopping the Yanks from making any move they need to make? No. Is the deal for 7 years (Giambi) or 10 years (A Rod) and thus will be an albatross forever? No. It’s, at most, a three-year deal.
What you don’t seem to want to grasp is that your position is extreme. All your points are worst case scenarios. If they extend him. If he gets hurt. If he doesn’t pitch well. It’s extreme. I acknowledged that there are risks/negatives. I’m not sure I’m 100 percent in favor of the signing. But there is clearly a lot of good to go along with the risks. You’re acting like they signed Farnsworth to a three-year/$35 million deal. That’s not what happened. They signed a reliever that most people in baseball would consider elite (sorry you don’t), and if that’s true, they’re better now than they were an hour ago.
Reply fail. Sorry. This goes with The Real JobaWockeeZ’s comment above.
One thing’s for sure-Soriano would take care of Celerino Sanchez.
Obviously the deception didn’t help his negotiation position. Unless he was lying to himself.
I truly underestimated Scott boras. he is a tremendous agent
Fuck me. I know i should be more concerned about the large amount of salary given to a relief pitcher who doesnt exactly have the best track record of health, but i’m more pissed about the pick. In a loaded draft like this we could have gotten a real gem due to sign-ability issues with the 31st pick. We can probably get someone good with a pick in the 50′s, but probably not of the same caliber. In a draft where Tampa has 9(wtf) picks, Boston has a couple first-rounders and the possibility of a hard-slotting system being put in place next year, the Yankees better flex their financial might like they should. I’m just hoping we can snag a couple of good guys in the later rounds because of signability issues.
Overall i’m pissed about this deal. Our bullpen was good enough. We over-payed…if Soriano gets hurt (which is very possible with his health issues), this could turn out to be a seriously bad deal. Best case scenario i guess is that Soriano is lights out next year, declines the option and we get 2 high unprotected picks.
Remember:
Pujols was a 14th rounder.
The odds of a first rounder panning out is maybe 1% better than in any other round; regardless, you can pick up some good guys in the late rounds.
Pujols is an exception. Having a first round pick gives us more trade chips to go through.
Wasting it is horrendously retarded.
YEAH BABY
The Yankees can easily just sign a bunch of high end, later round picks
No, they can’t. The best players go early regardless. Pujols in the 13th round is a once-in-a-lifetime thing.
I really hate the move. Why overpay for a reliever and give up a 1st rounder in a stacked draft.
This only thing good about this deal is that Joba won’t be going near the 8th inning. Blehhh.
Any chance this a precursor to a trade for a starter with Joba in the deal?
Joba and Cervelli are going luggage shopping tomorrow. package deal for a better arm.
everyone needs to come down…its the new york frickin’ yankees here….everything will be ok
Hell no!!! Panic and mayhem are fun. After the last 30 days of us signing the has beens, broken downs, and Mother Theresa reclamation projects this is great theater.
Question
… Should Soriano opt out after 2011, presumably bc he’s put up another great relieving year and he likes living in as many cities as possible, could the Yanks offer Soriano arbitration?
Could Soriano net the organization a type-A haul of picks after 2011?
And who’s going to offer him a contract? His value isn’t going to get higher and no one wanted to give up a pick. Except us. Shit.
OD
The Mets will need a closer and will probably have a protected first rounder.
There’s your sucker.
Minaya left so they’re not stupid anymore. Maybe.
His value doesn’t exactly have to get higher.
If Soriano puts up another impressive season, he’ll draw interest from a contender. There are a couple of near-playoff teams that would love to add Soriano, especially if he stays healthy. A healthy Soriano is a top 10 relief ptcher.
Yes. They can absolutely do that. And I’m sure it’s one of the reasons Cash made the deal.
everyone should stop kidding themselves about joba going back to the rotation, Cash won’t do it.
yeah and hes not signing tex… or damon… or soriano.
I hate this trade on the surface because we gave up a number one pick in a great draft BUT if they can recoup 2 picks next year by offering him arbitration if he opts put after the season OR if they can trade him to a contender desperate for a closer at the All Star break, this could still turn out to be a good deal
the baseball draft is a friggin’ crapshoot.
Yeah, they’re one notch better than multiyear deals for free agent relievers.
The move isn’t as bad if Joba gets back into the rotation.
Is there a case that the Yankees now have two of the top 3 closers in the game now?
1. Mo
2. Soria
3. Soriano
Off the top of my head, Brian Wilson is better than Soriano. There may be more, but I don’t feel like going through the league right now.
I love Brian Wilson, but I think Soriano is better. Bailey might be up there.
Tyler Kepner of The New York Times tweets that the Scott Boras client will make $11.5MM if he opts out after one year and $21.5MM if he opts out after year two. The contract is pending a physical.
Let’s assume there’s another year at 10.5 and a buyout of a few mil. That takes the contract to the reported 35 mil. This contract is a bit front loaded, where Soriano makes 10.5 each year in 2012 and 2013.
Do you think they’ll be an offer of more than 21 mil out there for him next year? Maybe, he got 35 this year. And if there is, then we get the draft pick back after next season.
i really like soriano, seems like a solid reliever, can’t wait to see him in pinstripes. good work cash, you’ve done it again.
Look at the list of Yankee number 1 picks. http://espn.go.com/mlb/draft/history/_/team/nyy. Even if you count two good years out of Hughes so far as a success and a couple of players that made their mark with another team, 90% of the Yankee first rounders are not high impact and most never make the majors. The Yankees are not giving up much in giving up one draft low first round pick, especially since they already have a lot of talent in the system. It is more important that they hold on to the talent in the system. The Yankees made a mistake last year in the trading Jackson, Coke and Kennedy. The question here, however, is — does Soriano improve the team. There is not doubt that the answer is yes.
Making bad first round picks in the past is a horrible, horrible reason to give one up for a middle reliever.
disagree with middle reliever term. Best closer in the AL east last year is not a middle reliever. 10 years younger than Mo.
The best for one year doesn’t mean jack. 3 years ago it’s Papelbon and the Sox desperately want him gone. 2 years ago it was Lidge and he sucks now. Last year it was Joe Nathan and he’s dead.
lmao on joe nathan
he’s not closing on this team hence he’s a middle reliever now.
Of course Mo wasn’t a middle reliever. I don’t think Soriano was easier, but I don’t see how your comment really relates to him at all.
He’s a middle reliever. Not starting, not closing, pitching the middle. He’s a great middle reliever, but he’s still a middle reliever. He’ll throw about 5% of the team’s total innings in 2011, and they won’t be the most important innings.
touchy
But Granderson finished the year with better numbers than Jackson (Jackson OPSed only .745 to Granderson’s .792), IPK was kind of successful in the NL West, but he got destroyed by the AL East (look at his game log for 2010 to see how he did against AL East teams, but don’t do it with kids around because it’s ugly), and Phil Coke is … Phil Coke. How was it bad trading these guys?
If I’m Hal Steinbrenner, I’d fine Cashman $10K for every week Mitre is in the starting rotation.
hey cmon bro you gotta give mitre a chance to shine
The only thing I’d trust Mitre to do is snake out one of the toilets in the clubhouse when they get clogged up.
Comment of the night.
And it has nothing to do with Soriano. This comment is just plain funny.
mitre is girardi’s pet project
Because that’s something normal owners do.
Cashman could add the decomposing body of Cy Young to the starting rotation (which would probably be an upgrade over Mitre)and Mike would write an article about how it wouldn’t really make a difference in the Yanks record.
What the hell are you talking about? I never defended Mitre. I’m just saying that your idea to fine him $10K for every start is nothing short of idiotic. In fact, it would be an insult to idiocy to call it that.
Well, he IS George’s son.
Wouldn’t it have been better to just have offered Kerry Wood arbitration? We’d either have an extra high draft pick or Woods on a 1 year $11-12 million dollar deal, in both cases a better position than they’re in now.
I’d rather have Soriano.
I’d rather have Woods on a one year deal and kept my number 1 pick or Soriano for the same amount of money AND a 2nd sanwich round pick.
woods was great last year, but the chances of him repeating that and/or staying healthy were pretty darn low.
Soriano for the same amount of money AND a 2nd sanwich round pick.
Sure, but this wasn’t an option. You are inventing the scenario where Woods declines arb when the Yankees were basically told he wouldn’t.
best pure athlete and outfielder, first round 21st pick 2004 and he is ready to BUST OUT! Worth a 7 year wait.
Greg Golson baby!
I can see a trade for a reliable starter as the next move. Wandy Rodriguez?
On a side note, I can’t seem to get rid of this yeast infection I have. Any suggestions?
put a little butter on it.
lol you’re havin a tough day then aren’t you
That’s the BEST you could do? A yeast infection? That’s whack.
What I mean is, my yeast infection is whack. Like a old grilled cheese sandwich.
Tell her you found someone else.
I’ll try but I don’t know, my shit be stinkin’.
sounds like you need massingill
I like it. I already stated multiple times I would not have a problem with a 3 year 30-35 million dollar deal. He is dominant in the pen and we need pitching.
quit whining about deals and wait until this guy gives up a go ahead grand slam to johnny peralta on his first pitch to start complaining about the contract.
Why would ANYONE care if he’s over paid or not? The Yankees can afford him, and in the long run it’s a LOT better then a 7-year contact to a 32-year old pitcher (a propal the i really hated for the risk of having deadwood on the roster in the last 4 years of the deal). Hopefully Soriano pays off. The pitching needed to improve somewhere for the team to have a chance this year, and with Woods going back to his Cubs roots, and this was the best way left to do it. Hell, Soriano may be better then Kerry Woods. Now the Bombers should have a strong bullpen to hold the fort until the July trading deadline when hopefully they can trade for the blue chip starter (or one of the Killer B’s come through). I’m surprised yes, but very pleasantly surprised!!!!!
The last 3 year contract that was given to a middle reliever hasn’t seen a mound in a year… Any long term deals made with middle relievers are crapshoots. no if ands or buts about it.
Marte
Hawkins
Farnsworth
Just to name 3… all have been varying levels of brutality.
I recently did a post where I looked at the Yankee Top 10 prospects according to BA. Here’s the lists, I added career WAR next to their name where applicable:
2004
1. Dionar Navarro, C (4.7)
2. Eric Duncan, 3b/1b (n/a)
3. Rudy Guillen, of (n/a)
4. Joaquin Arias, ss (-0.4)
5. Ramon Ramirez, rhp (0.2)
6. Robinson Cano, 2b (18.7)
7. Ferdin Tejeda, ss (n/a)
8. Jorge DePaula, rhp (0.1)
9. Estee Harris, of (n/a)
10. Bronson Sardinha, 3b (0.0)
2005
1. Philip Hughes, rhp (6.4)
2. Eric Duncan, 3b/1b (n/a)
3. Jose Tabata, of (2.0)
4. C.J. Henry (n/a)
5. Austin Jackson, of (3.8)
6. Eduardo Nunez, ss (-0.1)
7. Marcos Vechionacci, 3b (n/a)
8. Christian Garcia, rhp (n/a)
9. Jeff Marquez, rhp (-0.1)
10. Tyler Clippard, rhp (1.1)
2006
1. Philip Hughes, rhp (6.4)
2. Jose Tabata, of (2.0)
3. Dellin Betances, rhp (n/a)
4. Joba Chamberlain, rhp (7.4)
5. Ian Kennedy, rhp (2.8)
6. Chris Garcia, rhp (n/a)
7. Tyler Clippard, rhp (1.1)
8. J. Brent Cox, rhp (n/a)
9. Mark Melancon, rhp (0.3)
10. Brett Gardner, of (8.6)
2007
1. Joba Chamberlain, rhp (7.4)
2. Austin Jackson, of (3.8)
3. Jose Tabata, of (2.0)
4. Ian Kennedy, rhp (2.8)
5. Alan Horne, rhp (n/a)
6. Jesus Montero, c (n/a)
7. Jeff Marquez, rhp (-0.1)
8. Brett Gardner, of (8.6)
9. Ross Ohlendorf, rhp (1.9)
10. Andrew Brackman, rhp (n/a)
2008
1. Austin Jackson, of (3.8)
2. Jesus Montero, c (n/a)
3. Andrew Brackman, rhp (n/a)
4. Austin Romine, c (n/a)
5. Dellin Betances, rhp (n/a)
6. Zach McAllister, rhp (n/a)
7. Alfredo Aceves, rhp (1.5)
8. Phil Coke, lhp (1.8)
9. Mark Melancon, rhp (0.3)
10. Bradley Suttle, 3b (n/a)
2009
1. Jesus Montero, c (n/a)
2. Austin Romine, c (n/a)
3. Arodys Vizcaino, rhp (n/a)
4. Slade Heathcott, of (n/a)
5. Zach McAllister, rhp (n/a)
6. Manny Banuelos, lhp (n/a)
7. Gary Sanchez, c (n/a)
8. J.R. Murphy, c (n/a)
9. Jeremy Bleich, lhp (n/a)
10. Andrew Brackman, rhp (n/a)
2010
1. Jesus Montero, c (n/a)
2. Gary Sanchez, c (n/a)
3. Dellin Betances, rhp (n/a)
4. Manny Banuelos, lhp (n/a)
5. Andrew Brackman, rhp (n/a)
6. Austin Romine, c (n/a)
7. Hector Noesi, rhp (n/a)
8. Eduardo Nunez, ss/3b (-0.1)
9. Slade Heathcott, of (n/a)
10. Brandon Laird, 3b (n/a)
I’ve been thinking about doing this… but I think you may have put this post in the wrong thread.
There’s a point, see below.
1st round-Ian Kennedy, Brackman, Heathcott, Jeff Marquez, CJ Henry, Eric Duncan
Supplemental-Joba Chamberlain
2nd Round-Austin Romine, JR Murphy
3rd Round-Zachary McAllister, Brett Gardner, Christian Garcia
4th Round-Brad Suttle, Ross Ohlendorf
8th round-Dellin Betances, Austin Jackson
9th Round-Mark Melancon, Tyler Clippard
11th Round-Alan Horne
26th Round-Phil Coke
27th Round-Brandon Laird
Cano, Montero, Sanchez, Noesi, Banuelos, were all IFA’s.
Here’s my takeaway. All totaled, the Yanks get most of their best players from the international market, and the MLB amateur draft is ANYTHING but linear.
Missed Hughes in the 05 1st round.
i knew that without even looking at the draft…most of the names of players that are worth a crap are not from the US of A
..and the Yankee 1st round results have been very, very mixed. Take Hughes and IPKs WAR , divide it by the 5 years of drafts it took to obtain them and you get…less than 2 WAR. Which is what Soriano will give you.
I don’t think the results have been mixed as much as it’s “too soon to tell”. Op took over in what, 2005?
From 2005-2010, they have CJ Henry (one dud), IPK (potentially solid starter, decent pick) and 3 guys who are prospects still.
If 1 of those prospects hit and another turns into a solid regular, that seems like a very good result. That has to actually happen, but we don’t know if it will or it won’t for another 5 years….
I Soriano isn’t a closer in 2011 will he still be a type A next off season?
If he’s still a stud after 2011, then he retains the Type-A. The Yanks will offer arb, he declines, we get two picks in the 2012 Draft.
are you sure? a reliever with no saves being a type A?
Scott Downs, despite a zero-save 2010 season, was a Type-A free agent.
True, good one.
Also Balfour. Juan Cruz a couple of years ago. The system doesn’t discriminate against setup men.
He’ll probably keep Type-A but it doesn’t matter. The market for him was pretty much nonexistent until the Yankees did Boras a favor. Getting the picks next year is irrelevant.
Mike, when was the last time a guy of Soriano’s caliber sat on the market and didn’t get a deal? It was just a matter of time.
Agreed. Someone was going to sign him eventually regardless of his Type A status though for less years and less money. If he opts out after a year, the yankees will have nothing to loss by offering arbitration and 2 picks to gain by him signing elsewhere.
Getting the picks next year is irrelevant.
I get that you hate the deal, but this is strange.
Every winter Boras holds one client until the very end, and every winter he gets paid.
You are basically saying that NO ONE would have signed Soriano, not even the Angels who only would have had to give up only their third rounder? No one is going to sign Soriano next winter?
That seems a little crazy to me.
Stunned. Cash$$ is dumb.
i don’t know why everyone is getting all ticked off here…its quite obvious what happened.
tomorrow morning we’ll be reading about how andy pettite is retiring. since Lee signed with the phils, cash has been waiting on Andy and Andy’s been giving him the ‘ole..I’m not sure if I got it in me…today Andy’s wife got pissed and grabbed the phone and told cashman to suck it!
and then they went to plan B
How is Plan B to Pettitte retiring signing a reliever? Doesn’t make sense.
I don’t think this move has anything to do with their starting rotation. They got Soriano now because he’s available. This isn’t gonna stop them form bringing in a $20M starter.
maybe the new pitching coach took one look at Mitre and Nova and told cash that he better put joba ahead of them.
who knows…with or without this deal the yanks staff was in serious trouble.
Possibly because they were waiting for Pettitte to commit to retiring, and had slotted about $12 million for his potential return, so now they feel they can sign Soriano, and still have about $20 million left under their self-imposed payroll cap for a RH hitting 4th OF and a premium starter, should one become available?
============================
I dunno…I’m just spitballing here, trying to figure out a move that seems very inefficient to me. To say the least.
I just see it as the Yanks needed pitching, and adding 70 dominant, end of the game/fireman type innings is worth the money for only three years. It is not like we handed out a 5 year deal. The Yanks can easily afford to overpay by 2-3 million a year for only 3 years, and its not like that money is preventing up from getting anyone else. Because there isn’t anyone else.
I just cant find much that i like about this move. Soriano is good, yeah, but his track record of success isn’t even that long, he’s a 50% flyball pitcher in YS, is secure next year if he is bad or gets hurt. Mainly i just see this move as unnecessary. Our bullpen was one of the best in the league last year. Cheap bullpens full of interchangeable parts with few defined roles (Mo being the exception of course) is the way to go. Now we have one of if not the most expensive set-up man in baseball and because of this the bullpen becomes much less fluid (although still stronger with soriano for sure).
I’m really mad at cashman right now. Fucking cashman
Hopefully we move Joba to the rotation now if Cash can’t swing a deal for a starting pitcher before the season. So it would kind of like be adding a reliever and a starter? Even though we could have just put Joba in the rotation anyway, ha. I like the deal personally.
I like the deal too I know many fans are pulling their heir out right now lol but the pen is lights out at the moment. Plus we longer have to hear who is going to take over for Mo….the search is over.
I wonder how Francesa is taken this news. He still feels Joba is the heir to Mo/future closer of the Yankees.
Is it possible they could turn around and package Soriano with say 6mil a year and prospects for a starter?
It’s not so much that I mind any one thing about this deal. It’s everything combined.
- giving up the pick.
- giving up the pick to the Rays.
- the years and money for a middle reliever (I recognize Soriano is better than Joba/Robertson, but he’s not worth giving all that money to when they’re making peanuts.)
- the fact that the middle reliever hasn’t been the healthiest throughout his career
- the fact that middle relief means little when the back end of your rotation is super meh
That said, I certainly hope he stays healthy and kills it.
Agreed on all counts.
-Giving up the pick shouldn’t mean anything. Callis said that the Yanks could find similar talent in the later rounds if they spend. Is Culver that much better than Mason, Gumbs, etc…
-So what if it was the Rays. Does this mean they can never sign type A’s of rivals? Let’s see how much money they have to spend on all those picks.
-Yeah, I am basically pissed it was for a reliever. I won’t make the distinction of what type of reliever, because really why.
-Yeah, pissed that he’s not healthy either.
-Rotation has nothing to do with this move. It’s not like this was money that precluded the Yanks from signing a FA pitcher.
I am nonplussed by the signing though. That’s me though. I think Mo is overpaid too. I am not a bullpen kind of guy.
I agree with pretty much you said here, even if it still annoys me. I know a 31st pick or whatever it is hasn’t historically led to amazing players or anything but that doesn’t mean it can’t. And if you don’t think we’ll ever get anything out of a 31st pick, what about a 49th pick or whatever we have?
I’m just not big on giving up first-round picks for a reliever, at all. Not a bullpen girl, either. I agree Mo is overpaid but I don’t mind with the Yankees’ resources and needs. Money is the last thing I mind in Yankee signings, especially because this won’t stop them from signing Pettitte and/or other available starters if they want anyone. Two seriously overpaid relievers? Meh.
This is seriously rambly, apologies.
If you can’t be rambly in times like these…
If you want to see how much talent there is after the first round, just look at how many players signed to ~1mm contracts after the first round in recent past. There were a decent amount.
The Yanks could make a killing in rounds 2-10 without having to worry about round one. Remember, they do have a budget in the draft. This just means more money to spread in rounds 2+.
Yanks didn’t give Soriano a no trade clause. At $12M a year (average) he’s tradable. You also likely get a better player in the trade than with the 31st pick in this year’s draft.
The only debate here is if the Yanks are overpaying for a non-closing reliver. Forget the dam pick!
I’m thinking now, no one is gonna give a quality prospect for a guy that could opt out at the end of the year.
Wow, from looking at this thread, you’d think the Yankees had given Gaudin $35M.
It’s definitely an overpay, but it helps the 2011 Yankees, and (probably) doesn’t hurt the 2014-2016 Yankees too much.
Throw Soriano in the rotation. Then his contract will make sense. Can he be worse than Mitre?
The market for the kind of starters the Yanks like to sign seems to be about 17 million minimum these days. And that is not for an ace. So a hair under 12 mil a year for an ace type reliever seems to be a pretty fair deal to me. Maybe an overpay by a couple million a year, but the Yanks have a slight overpay in every single deal they give out, so it is market value for the Yanks, ha.
What bothers me the most is the opt-outs + money. If Soriano was getting a little short changed on salary I get the opt out, and if no opt out I get a little more salary, but not the combo, and not two opt outs.
The pick is a shame, but not a killer.
Otherwise in retrospect should have offered wood arb or picked up option
I could care less about the pick right now. I assume the opt out allows Cash to let the farm repopulate the bullpen in a year or two. Also, this could mean that DRob or Joba is included in a trade for SP. The latter is a longshot.
but all yankee deals are like that…not sure why, but they always have to entice with player options and the like.
The absence of a No-trade clause allows Cashman to turn it around at the trade deadline. If it means Cashman eats a couple million a year but allows him to upgrade the rotation with a solid starter (Carpenter for Soriano?), then perhaps the deal doesn’t look so puzzling in a couple years.
What team is giving up a good starter for a good closer?
Okay so Carpenter is a bit of a pipe-dream unless guys like Romine and a couple pitching prospects are involved. However, a grabbing a back-of-the-end starter from a pretender wanting to shore up the ‘pen is possible. I don’t know … a Jorge De La Rosa-type might be tradeable.
i don’t think carpenter would do anything in the AL.
Oh really?
hell no…i used to think he would until i looked at his AL stats. he’s been pitching in the NL for too long and he’s now older. he needs to stay there.
I might be lost, but if the Yankees wanted a De La Rosa type pitcher, they would have sign De La Rosa.
Agreed. However, it may allow Cash to free up Joba or DRob in a trade for a pitcher as side pieces now. Some good prospects with Joba or DRob added might be the tipping point for some clubs. Who, I have no idea.
that is a goooood point.
How often do the Yankees subtract talent at the deadline? Every year, they’re buyers: prospects for MLB talent.
yeah…but Soriano could be attractive to teams in contention at the deadline…they alreayd have Mo.
But not at the expense of the hypothetical team’s major league roster. The deadline is mostly prospects for players when it comes to contending teams.
There is basically zero chance of the Yanks trading Soriano. Like you said, on the Yanks side, we don’t look to take away from our team at the deadline. Only add. And more importantly from another teams angle, what team is going to look to add an expensive reliever by giving up a good starter. Only a contender would look to add Soriano, and contenders don’t give up their starters.
this is a different scenario b/c we already have mo and if you could package soriano and others for a starter then it makes more sense.
It wouldn’t make sense for the other team if they are unassumingly making a playoff push. Why would they give a starter that the Yanks actually want? And we have minor leaguers we can trade for a good starter. Trading Soriano would just create another hole in the pen. It is really not a realistic scenario on any level if you think about it.
*assumingly
i gotcha…
The problem with most fans is they look at each and every trade and free agent signing in a vacuum. This move is obviously a prelude to something else down the line. You will NOT see two of Phelps, Nova & Noesi in the rotation come opening day (Particularly with a shaky (At best) Burnett in the rotation).
The question then becomes who do they go after? Scrap heap guys like Millwood, Young & Francis are not the answer (Otherwise they would have signed one by now). One obvious guy is Chris Carpenter. Carpenter will make $15m in 2011, and has a $15m contract for 2012 (The Cardinals can buy him out for $1m). Why Carpenter? The Redbirds need to free up $$$$$$$$$ for Pujols, and that could be one way to do it. Who could the Yankees offer? Start with Joba and Logan (They need pen help, Franklin as the Closer? nuff said), and move on to a young pitcher. Perhaps a Nova, Phelps or a Brackman?
Joe, I’m glad you’re like me and standing firm in the “Joba back to the rotation” camp. It is just DUMB not to give him another chance at this point. Dumb
i agree and think its the best option…i say leave him there…he’s got the tools. this new pitching coach can set him on the right path.
joba’s gotta earn it, he’s got the talent so the spot is his if he steps up I’m sure
He did step up. He pitched fine for a player at his age and stage of development when he was a starter in 09. And then they returned him to the pen, and apparently do not plan to let him start again. How can he “earn it”, if he is not given an opportunity to do so?
Sure glad that Nova and Mitre will be losing games in the 4th inning while Joba watches and Soriano prepares to come in and hold the deficit to a mere 3 runs.
Maybe Joba will be moved to the rotation where he belongs. Cashman obviously lied through his teeth last week when he said the Yankees weren’t giving up their number 1 pick for anyone other than Lee so the fact that he made a point to say Joba’s stuff translates much better to the bullpen probably means in Cashman speak that he’s gonna be shifted back to the rotation this year.
everyone has to get off cash’s back for lying…i think he knows that andy ain’t coming back and he probably didn’t know that last week. but who cares anyway. people take this stuff way too personal. all these bastards lie
I could care less if he lies, my point is how can you take him at face value when he says Joba is staying in the pen when you see him reverse field like this with Soriano.
i don’t think cash really cares about that…
They know stuff about Joba we can barely sniff. If they don’t move him to the rotation, they obviously know something we don’t about his ability to be a SP.
i can tell joba can be a starter…he’s got the build for it. i met him at Mom’s diner last year in Tampa – nice guy..i think he was bangin’ the hostess….he’s as solid as a friggin’ rock. this new pitching coach is gonna make him a starter damnit!
Did you happen to get an MRI of his shoulder/arm?
i watched him eat the french toast and he did fine with it…had a little trouble with the grits though..i yelled out…”joba…you need to keep that elbow up on the grits”
he’s a quick learner
You didn’t suggest a salad?
I agree. Cashman can’t be trusted. Heyman can’t be trusted. Boras can’t be trusted. Nobody can fucking be trusted. They all play games.
Have to give Boras credit though. The guy is a freaking magician. He ALWAYS seems to get his clients a better deal than what seems possible.
he’s just doing his job and he does it well….sure he’s shifty, but that’s part of the job. i love listening to red sox fans cry about him. ain’t their goddamned money
not necessarily. see johnny damon – 2010.
Oh, I have no problem with Cash lying. People didn’t mind when it led to something that people wanted, like getting Damon or Tex. Not that anyone cares, just wanted to say that. Hey – maybe he’s lying about Joba definitely being in the bullpen or Andy leaning toward retirement. Or both!
Let’s hope he’s lying.
that sunofabitch
best bullpen in baseball? It should give the young pitchers a very nice cushion to work with… if nova/joba/brackman/whoever can do 5 solid innings the bullpen will definitely be capable to take the rest. it will be interesting to see what our young SP’s can do with that kind of support behind them
this is where mitre fits…he’s actually not too bad as the mid relief guy.
wish Aceves was back…he’d be a huge help here
Aceves in this pen would nice to see.
If Joba is moved back into the rotation, then our pen just would have the dominant back end with Soriano and Mo. Then Roberston and the lefties for the other innings. Extremely good, but not historic or anything. If Joba stays in the pen, then our pen becomes ridiculously dominant and deep adding Joba for those middle innings too.
girardi’s going to be in hook heaven this year
that book is going to get a whole lot bigger.
hello 6 hour games
I’m not complaining, we have money to burn and our bullpen looks great. Act like we don’t have mad trade chips in the system.
NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
IF SORIANO OPTS OUT AFTER FIRST YEAR- Can the Yankees offer arb and get a draft pick… hopefully type A??
Atleast thats something positive????
Can the Yankees offer arb and get a draft pick
Yes they can. AJ Burnett was offered arbitration after he opted out.
hopefully type A
Unless he bombs. Yes he’d be a Type-A.
We’ll Atleast if he opts the Yankees can get back a 1st rd pick… and then signing a 2011 type A free Agent- they wont totally lose out on the first rd (if Soriano opts and is offered Arb).
Good news I guess.
Im up in the air with this but I think for 2010 this is the best move they can make right now to compete.
The quasi-good news is that the 2012 draft might be a hard slot, so the Yanks can just draft the best player that says will sign.
if Soriano opts out The top 10-15 teams might not need a closer… so hopefully a crappy team will surrender a 1st for him…
just trying to think positive.
it was basically pettittes money anywayz for 2011..
Cashman probably figures Soriano will opt out…
Didnt olney or heyman say hed be a bullpen catcher for the highest contract in a post a few days ago???
Yeah, he’s all about the money. There are a lot of decent to good relievers available next year, but it looks like he might be the best of the bunch.
If anyone can extract value from being the best in breed, it’s Boras.
Certainly can; Burnett came to us (and cost us a pick) after an opt out. I guess it would be funny if he opted out of $12MM and got $15MM in arb, right? No? Sigh …
Maybe they can. The collective bargaining agreement is going to be re-negotiated before next offseason, and the odds are excellent that the players will bring up how the current system penalizes relievers. And that makes it likely that the system will be changed.
Via Buster
” like there was a split in Yankees’ org. over this — since it took place just days after Cashman said he wouldn’t give up No. 1 pick.”
Maybe Hank butted in again?
The Yanks of old are back! Maybe the “Tampa braintrust” stepped in on this one just like the good ole days. I like the move even better if they went over Cashman’s head, haha.
The “good ole days” when they team spent huge sums to field a team of creaky veterans and fail to win the world series?
That.
I was just messing around.
[Buster excitedly grabs pen, ready to start on "The Last Night of the Cashman Dynasty"]
Or Hal
The Yankees have a good chance to have both the best offense in baseball and the best bullpen in baseball. The thing is that we don’t know how bad the pitching will be. The point of having a god bullpen is not just in holding leads. The Yankees will probably have a TON of comeback wins next year. This reminds me of 2004. Yes, that season didn’t end well, but that regular season the Yankees won 101 games and were very exciting to watch.
but the red sox are going to win 125 games this year….
lets shoot for a playoff spot..
Giants were the 7th best team in the playoffs last year…
anything can happen if your team gets hot… alla Marlins 03′ Giants Last Year and the Cards when they won it with only like 82 wins in the season.
hey at least boston is stuck with papelbon for another year
he is such a doooshe…the most unlikable guy on the most unlikeable team.
Fan confidence poll anyone?
if everyone stops bitching about the draft pick and focuses on 2011 then it should be higher b/c soriano improves the team.
but so many are pissed about the loss of the pick…since when have the yanks worried about that!!
Yeah, the pick is kind of silly to be whining about. It’s a loss, but not a serious one.
i know..good point…
As bexy put it earlier, it’s not JUST the pick. There are a bunch of things. First, the odds are against Soriano being healthy and effective often enough during this deal to make it worth it. Second, what they really need is starting pitching…what is the point of committing this money for this many years if 2/5 days of the week, he’s going to be sitting in the pen while mopup guys try to keep the deficit at three runs or less. Third…how much will this impact their ability to take on a salary dump later? Fourth, the pick. Fifth, the pick goes to the Rays.
we have a 41 year old closer, soriano I’m not worried about getting hurt
theeeeen your head is buried firmly in the sand. His health record is spotty and he’s over 30. He’s never had three healthy seasons in a row, and he hasn’t been on the DL in two years.
These deals never work out. They just don’t. The only way this turns out good for the Yanks is if he pitches well this season, stays healthy, and opts out.
or if he stays healthy for 3 years and pitches well, god forbid
Like all signs point to that happening.
My point is that this signing made the team better.
This signing didn’t take money awy from signing another SP. If anything it made Joba and DRob more expendable as side pieces for a deal on a SP.
I hate giving money to bullpen guys. Especially ones that have injury histories.
The pick? So what. Is Culver head and shoulders ahead of Gumbs, Mason, etc… Look how many kids got more than Culver after the first round. It was a decent amount.
It goes to the Rays? So what? Did that stop the Yanks from signing Damon or Tex (I believe that pick turned into the best prospect in all of baseball by the way). Are they gonna have enough money to sign all of them? Who cares. The business of the Yankees is the Yankees, not watching out for the Jones’.
the funny thing about Paps though is that he’s still decent and the sox best option as a closer. i think bringing in jenks is risky and bard is not a closer…he doesn’t have the cajones to close
Scott Boras is brilliant. I underestimated his abilities.
its not a surprise that most of the best player hire him.
I’m not sure the opt-out bothers me so much in this case.
The downside is: (1) the player either underperforms or gets injured, and the Yanks are stuck with him, or (2) the player excels and opts-out. In the case of (1), that’s no different a situation than if the opt-out didn’t exist, so it’s a total wash. In the case of (2), the Yanks will clear over $10M off the books that they can go spend elsewhere, and will get draft pick compensation when he signs elsewhere. I think the greatest effect of the opt-out may be that it puts the team in position to, in effect, negotiate an extension with the player earlier than they’d have to without the opt-out (if they want to negotiate with the player in the event he exercises the opt-out).
Clearly granting the opt-out isn’t ideal for the team, but I don’t think it’s necessarily as awful as it’s sometimes made out to be.
Opt outs are rare after only ONE year, so in this case, I actually think the opt-out was the key to the contract for the Yankees.
The Yanks were prob interested in a 1 year deal: Rent the best reliever on the market, recoup the picks. Boras needed to get his client what looks like a big deal, but he is planning to opt out and do it again next winter. Both sides benefit.
It’s that, or Hank just got tired of Cashman’s “patience” and called Boras himself. Just kidding.
I can see this bullpen stealing a lot of wins from the starters…
By intentionally giving up a run knowing the offense will score later? Yeah?
Oh hey, look, the Yankees signed Rafael Soriano.
Great move. Stacked pen = help offsetting lousy rotation.
its a strategy…
Our bullpen was good enough…
———–
If you think that, well an upsetting deal.
If you don’t then a stronger bullpen helps with a faltering #4/5 in the rotation. At least till mid-season trading comes around…
A stronger bullpen doesn’t help the rotation at all. Sergio Mitre will still suck just as much with Soriano pitching the eighth inning.
True. It doesn’t help the offense either, but it should help their bottom line: win more games.
How many more games, though? Probably one, and that’s assuming Soriano manages to stay healthy. This just seems like a really ineffective way to spend $12 million per annum.
Did it make the team better?
I am not a fan of signing relievers to big deals, and I don’t like the deal. However, they just signed the year’s best closer to be their set-up man. I think they got better. Who cares about the money right now. Complain when it stops them from signing a SP.
Better? Sure. But not by very much.
Was there a better way to spend the money this year? Was there a better way to make the 2011 Yankees better without trading?
I am not psyched about the contract either, but I know the Yanks got better in one of the only ways they could without a trade.
You could have said the same thing about the Mo signing by the way.
It doesn’t make the rotation any better but it deepens the bullpen, and so the yankees will allow fewer runs overall. It’s not like Mitre and Nova will never hand over leads to the bullpen, and if they are one or two runs behind, there is a much better chance of coming back when the bullpen is not surrendering more runs.
But Mike, you’ve been telling us that we have 2 months to go before spring training and the Yanks have plenty of time to get a substitute for Mitre. Have you become resigned to the fact that Mitre is our number 5?
I still think they will, but I was just getting my point across. Soriano has zero impact on the first six or so innings of the game. His presence is irrelevant to the starter.
it gives girardi the flexibility to yank the starter when he gets into trouble early. instead of letting the runs pile up, he knows he’s got a stacked bullpen to get the job done. attn: nova, AJ, hughes
Okay sure, let’s watch and see how many times this actually happens in 2011.
joe’s going to love the bullpen this year. expect to see the hook early and often
Great, so they’ll be looking for an entirely new bullpen by August because everyone will be worn out.
The bullpen was excellent in August and Sept. of last year and guess what, the rotation was still awful and they were a .500 team. All the Soriano move did was put lipstick on the pitching staff pig.
Since when is the signing of a reliever a judgement of the rotation. Is the rotation worse today than yesterday?
Of course Soriano’s presence has no impact on the starting rotation and it was definitely not a cost effective move since they’ll be lucky to get 1.5-2 WAR from Soriano for the $11.5 million for 2011. The only way I like this move if it’s turns out to be a one year deal and they can recoup a couple of picks next year when Soriano walks.
Also, the Yankees will be put in a lot of situations where they need 4 full innings out of the pen. It is now much easier to do that with Mo, Soriano, Joba, D-Rob, Feliciano, and Logan.
I know you don’t like the deal but this post makes no sense. of course this move helps the rotation, especially if guys like nova are only effective for 5 innings each start. it will give the yankees a nice cushion if they want to give some of their young guys like brackman a chance also. I wouldn’t be so quick to dismiss this deal over a pick and a few mill
What getting Soriano means is that when Sergio Mitre sucks, Joba, Feliciano, or Robertson can relieve him rather than being held out for late-inning situations. Thus, you’ve got the Yankees other quality relievers available for the mid-innings. Greater bullpen depth should help the team a lot.
Not really. Because Mitre comes after nova, who comes after Burnett. You can’t deploy those guys 5 days a week.
Why is everyone mixing the bullpen with the rotation like it’s a zero sum game?
Does this signing mean the rotation is fixed in stone more than yesterday?
Is there less money to sign…Francis, Millwood, Garcia, Duchscherer? I bet they could still sign all of those guys if they really wanted to flex their wallet.
I don’t like the deal but I’ll be positive and just say it will likely help us in 2011.
How many here called out Heyman and ripped him for the pass few days for reporting that this was going to happen? Even in the face of what Cashman said too funny.
Cashman been feeding everyone garbage all winter:
1- We are not waiting on Andy to make moves. (The day after Andy says he not going to be there opening day they sign Soriano)
2- I’m not paying Soriano closer money.
3- I’m not going to give up “the PICK”
TOO FUNNY!
heyman will tweet anything…he’s bound to be right once in awhile..
who cares about what anyone said…they’re all liars
Your right no one cares when there wrong.
Same thing happen last spring reference J.Chamberlain “the starter”
My problem with Heyman is that he just tweets so much speculation. He predicted 4 or 5 teams would sign Soriano. When he gets one prediction right, people say that he’s been spot on with Yankees predictions this offseason. What about his prediction of Cliff Lee to the Yankees? Didn’t he break Cashman talking to Crawford? He’s quantity reporter, and I don’t feel like he researches his speculation enough. So I won’t call him a liar, but I find it hard to trust his tweets anymore.
that’s the problem with tweeting…these guys feel they need to constantly update something…and most of it is bullcrap.
It’s funny that you’re saying this considering Andy didn’t even freaking say that.
Is Andy going to be on the opening day roster?
As reported from both Cashman and Andy NO!
Did you pay attention to when they said Andy never said that? Obviously NO!
Everybody lies.
Now if Pettite would come back, even if only for the 2nd half of the season, I’d feel a heck of a lot better since now their offense and bullpen are rock solid.
Yankees make out unless Soriano gets hit by a bus or just sucks(hes been a solid arm..career 2.73 era.)
Its basically Andy Pettittes Money.
Solid addition for 2011 – lock down BP.. maybe can take some pressure off SPs.
If He opts out we can get a draft pick back.
It’s Andy Pettitte’s money for a player who is, without question, less valuable than Andy Pettitte.
last year andy was worth 3.1 WAR, soriano was 2.7 WAR
I was going by FanGraphs: Pettitte 2.3, Soriano 1.6. I actually made my other Pettitte-related post while assuming his 2010 fWAR was over 3.0, so the difference is less than expected.
*less than I expected
If Lee signed with the Yankees and Pettitte came back do the Yankees sign Soriano?
No, there would have been no money left.
It was so obvious that Cashman was full of it when he said he didn’t want to sacrifice a draft pick for Soriano. Seriously, you’re gonna trade Jesus Montero for Joakin Soria, but won’t part with some 18-year-old-chances-are-won’t-pan-out nobody to get Soriano? Come on now….
I’m pretty sure Montero for Soria was just speculation on the part of the reporter, whomever it was. Might have been Stark.
i don’t recall an off season where that has been as much speculatiion as this one…its been crazy.
With one handle or another, I’ve been on RAB since the Johan talks. I’ve almost never, if hardly ever used profanity to get a point across….but WHAT THE FUCK????
why the hell is everyone ripping cashman for lying or doing something different than what he said…it happens all the time.
because they obviously know how to be a better GM than he does
Because they got played.
I guess I don’t see where it creates leverage for the Yankees? Maybe it got Soriano to drop his price, but it deosn’t seem like it could have dropped too far?
Clearly a No Confidence Vote by Cashman on his 2011 starting rotation. Cash seems to expect and be OK with lots of 5 inning starts.
There’s a rumor that Mike Harkey’s job is jeopardy with secret negotiations happening to bring in Torre to over work the bullpen.
I doubt Cashman is OK with five-inning starts. There’s just not any obvious available solutions to improve the rotation.
I’ve spent the last last 10 minutes browsing the posts and I came up with one question. Why is everyone so angry about the money? It’s not like if the Yankees are under budget we all get a refund.
The goal is to improve the team, Soriano was pretty much the last way to do that over the winter and with Pettitte not coming back, I think his hand was forced.
Let me ask another question: maybe Cashman realizes something we don’t? Mo’s OLD. If Mo gets hurt for a month or-God forbid-out for the year, who do you want to close? Now there is a proven, big game closer ready to keep the mound warm until he returns. Logic seems reasonable to me.
Would I like to have kept the draft pick, yes. Do I like the prospect of Soriano opting out after a year to go somewhere else, no. Would I have liked a less expensive contract, sure.
Let’s let the year play out a bit before we storm the castle with torches and pitchforks.
If you’re gonna storm the castle, do it because of the starting rotation Cashman is about to run out there, not for over indulging on Soriano.
There are none.
who knows. they seem to think that saving money is more important than having better players on the team for some reason
Thank you!
I don’t feel like going through threads to copy and paste comments, but some people just “Wow” me on this site…as I read through the comments, the same people who, for the past 2-3 weeks, bemoaned this deal are now in favor citing an improved 2011 club, etc etc…utterly rediculous!
the yanks and sox both have 2 closers and the rays have none…
Krazy Kyle sheds a tear.
Yeah but the rays have plenty of good young starters.
In the last decade, multi-year contracts for RPs have nearly universally been awful investments…
One of the (miniscule number of) exceptions to the above is the greatest relief pitcher of all-time, and already on the roster.
Soriano has missed three entire full seasons in the last seven…
Those missed seasons have resulted in Soriano’s average per-season IP total being a lowly 44…
In 2010, Soriano posted his worst K rate since 2002…
The New York Yankees have spent the last several seasons putting on a clinic on how to build a supremely effective bullpen on the cheap…
I don’t get it. At all.
This is a horrible, terrible contract; it betrays a stunning and scary ignorance of basic economic principles on the part of the Yankees front office. It surrenders a draft pick and thirty-five million dollars for — in the absolute, tip-top best-case scenario — 180-200 very good innings spread over three years.
The attempts to spin this signing as positive (while admirable) have been laughable, and not a single one has come close to convincing me that this contract is anything but a giant turd.
I have no idea which Yankee front office yo-yo grabbed his sledgehammer and went over NinjaCash’s head, but he is responsible for the worst contract farted out by the Yankees since the winter of Pavano, Wright, and Womack.
The notion that this contract will not affect how the Yankees spend money going forward is hilarious; a twelve million dollar chunk out of your ass — plus whatever additional luxury tax that entails — counts in the books, and will affect how the Yankees spend money.
The only silver-lining here is that this is only one hideously awful contract, and not a pair or a trio.
2-3 extra wins could easily be the difference between going to the offseason or not.
Short of a trade there is nothing in that Cashman could do to add 2-3 wins except convince Andy to come back – or maybe move Joba to the rotation
.
Why would Cashman not do this deal with the Rays and the Red Sox as strong as they are for 2011?
I know that is short sighted but money will have to solve the problems as they arise in the future
Per Fangraphs, in his nine season career, Soriano has never been worth 3 wins, only once was worth two wins, and five times was worth less than half a win.
Per Baseball Reference, Soriano has never been worth 3 wins, only twice was worth two wins, and four times was worth less than half a win.
And those are rather generous in the sense that it assumes Soriano would be replacing a replacement-level player. These are the Yankees, a team with a bevy of pitching prospects, deep pockets, and a proven ability to find dirt-cheap positive-win relievers *without* parting with oodles of money.
So, more than likely, the Soriano upgrade is worth less than any WAR statistics would indicate.
BEST CASE: the Yankees improved by ~1.5 wins in each of the next three seasons, or about $8 million per win. And that is the besty-best case scenario, where Soriano is healthy all three seasons and pitches 70-75 innings at his highest proven level of ability every single season.
$8 million per win if everything breaks absolutely right. That, my friends, is pissing money down the drain.
Price is a little high but hey, our rotation sucks right now. Gotto spend money on the pen.
Yes, marginally upgrading 65 innings of medium-leverage relief innings should do wonders for the 400-600 starter innings we are concerned with.
In other news, I found out I have cancer. So, I got LASIK surgery. I figured hey, I can’t afford to fix the cancer right now, so I might as well sharpen my eyesight up.