Looking Way Ahead: The 2013 Free Agent Class

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Could Hamels be a target ... in two years? (AP Photo/David J. Phillip)

The Yankees have been, and pretty much always will be a team that relies on high-end free agents to remain king of the MLB jungle. Sometimes those players work out, sometimes they don’t, and sometimes they’re in between. MLB Trade Rumors posted a list of players currently scheduled to become a free agent after the 2012 season yesterday, and there are plenty of attractive names in there, especially when it comes to starting pitchers. Just a sampling…

Matt Cain (28)
John Danks (28)
Zack Greinke (28)
Cole Hamels (29)
Francisco Liriano (29)
Shaun Marcum (31)
Jonathan Sanchez (30)
Jered Weaver (30)

The ages listed are their 2013 season age, so Cain, Greinke, and Danks will all still be two years away from the big three-oh when the hit the market. That’s great because the Yankees, like just about every team, is always in need of starting pitching, especially of the young and high-end variety. In a perfect world, New York would sign two of these guys and have them join forced with CC Sabathia to form a powerful 1-2-3 combination. That would make breaking in a young pitcher (Manny Banuelos? Dellin Betances? Brett Marshall? who knows) slightly easier, at least in theory.

Here’s the question though: what is the Yankees payroll situation going to look like in two years? As of right now, the team has $128.2M tied up in just six players in 2013, and that assumes club options for Robinson Cano ($15M) and Curtis Granderson ($13M) are bought out for $2M apiece. That also doesn’t account for the extremely likely scenario in which Sabathia opts out of his contract after this season and re-signs to a much more lucrative one. It also assumes that Rafael Soriano won’t be using either of his opt outs. So despite that near $130M commitment, the Yankees would still be lacking three starting outfielders, a second baseman, a catcher, a designated hitter, three starting pitchers, plus an entire bullpen and bench.

If you figure it takes $50M to fill all those holes except the rotation, we’re still looking at $180M committed with three starting pitchers still needed. Figure one is a kid making the minimum or close to it, Ivan Nova in his final pre-arbitration season or something like that. Each of those eight pitchers above will command at least $10M a year on the open market, a few of them $20M or so. The Yankees would have to support a $210-220M payroll in 2013 to bring two of those guys aboard using my rough estimation of the cost to fill the rest of the roster.

Maybe it happens, maybe it doesn’t, but it’s worth noting that after the 2013 season, the Yankees will be waving goodbye to A.J. Burnett ($16.5M) and Soriano ($14M), and maybe even Derek Jeter ($17M). I highly doubt that last one though. Could the team take the hit of a huge payroll that one year knowing some money will come off the books after the season? I dunno, possibly. Possibly not.

Now that we’ve wasted a sufficient amount of time looking at a free agent market that is still two years away, I have to remind you that not everyone listed there will actually become a free agent. Teams are locking up young players (not just pitchers) to long-term contract extensions more than ever before, and all of those guys seem like prime candidates for such deals. Realistically, maybe two or three of those guys will be available in two years, in which case the Yankees would probably pursue one. Then again, it could be the 2008-2009 offseason all over again.

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  • http://facebook.com/andrewjcalagna Drew

    why would the Yankees ever opt out of the Cano and Granderson deals? Besides a catastrophic injury

    • Rick in Boston

      Assuming here, but Mike might be thinking that both options are tossed aside after the 2012 in favor of long-term deals.

  • Johnny O

    I think Cashman is smart enough to know that if the 2014 FA class is weak on starting pitching, then go all in hard on the 2013 class and suck it up for a year before we can finally shed AJ, Soriano and El Capitan. No point in going cheap when there’s quality available, just to overspend on crap the next year.

    Also – I bet Wainwright ends up on this list too. His 2012 is already vested by his 2010 Cy Young finish, but i’m pretty sure his 2013 only vests on a top 5 Cy finish in 2011, which is impossible.

    Disclaimer: i have no idea who will be a FA in 2014, it might be better than 2013.

    • Rick in Boston

      According to Cot’s, the Cardinals had to pick up both 2012 and 2013 at the same time. However, they could void them if he is on the DL at the end of 2011 with an arm injury.

      • Johnny O

        Thanks. I was going off his b-ref page which says 2013 option is picked up with top 5 finish in 2011 Cy Young Vote

  • Rick in Boston

    If you include the options of Granderson and Cano, the Yankees are looking at approximately $152 million in salary. Gardner, Hughes, Robertson and Joba are all in their arbitration years at that point. Eight guys under contract, all 30+ years old.

    • Ted Nelson

      Plus a top 5, top 10 farm system to fill in the roster in-house and through trades.

  • IRF

    I was browsing Cot’s the other day and realized that Justin Verlander is due 60 million from 2012-2014. Is it possible that the Tigers would consider trading him now that hes expensive? He would probably cost an arm and a leg to get, but with the weak FA class coming up, he could be a hot commodity if the Tigers decided to put him on the block.

    • Rick in Boston

      With Verlander, they’ve got a legit shot at winning that division every year. I’m sure the bidding would start at Montero & Banuelos.

      • Johnny O

        I’d trade one of those guys plus anyone else on the farm. would like to keep at least one of them, but really couldn’t argue if we traded both for verlander (but nothign else).

        • Pat D

          Would not trade Montero for Verlander. Banuelos, it depends on when.

          • Mister Delaware

            Have you ever seen Verlander pitch a baseball?

            • Pat D

              Yes, but I have a list of guys for which I’d trade Montero: Felix, Lincecum, Johnson, Price, Kershaw.

              They’re all younger than Verlander. And all just as unattainable.

              • Mister Delaware

                You should modify that list. Even contract/age aside, there are a lot more than 5 guys worth trading Montero for. Closer to 50.

                • http://bloodfarm.tumblr.com mattdamonwayans

                  50 guys? In Major League Baseball? Please, enlighten us.

                  • Mister Delaware

                    That I would trade Montero for? Didn’t someone here go through that exercise in the offseason to prove this point? We disagreed on the borders (I think I remember seeing Billy Butler’s name) but the premise seemed pretty spot on. If you want the quick version nitpicking, how can Lester not be on that list? Or Tulo/Hanley/Longoria/Zimmerman etc, etc, etc who not only have major league numbers we’d love from Montero, but would also upgrade the defense. Or Votto who’s proven he can rake in the majors? Or Mike Trout who is a great hitter plus a much better bet to contribute in the field? See where I’m going?

                    • The Big City of Dreams

                      Lets be realistic a majority of the guys you mentioned aren’t available. Yes there are a number of players that Jesus would be moved for but a number of them we can’t acquire.

                    • Mister Delaware

                      That wasn’t really part of the argument. Its not like I said “I’d trade Montero for 50 guys who other teams would realistically swap for Montero”.

          • Johnny O

            Given Yanks roster construction and Montero’s likelihood to be a DH, I’d absolutely prefer Verlander. He’s 28 and he’s been awesome 5 of the last 6 years and probably will be this year too. He’s durable, consistent, high velocity, swing and miss breaking balls, good control.

    • Ted Nelson

      Definitely possible, but the Tigers aren’t afraid of a payroll north of $100 mm. They just went out and spent big on VMart and Benoit this off-season, and if keeping payroll down were a big concern not sure why they’d do that. They’ve got Ordonez’s $10 mill expiring, an option on whether they want to keep Valverde in 2012, and Inge and Peralta expiring after 2012. I’m not sure that they’re going to feel pressure to deal Verlander. Doesn’t mean that they won’t decide to do it.

    • IRF

      The only problem is that having 60 million tied up in three pitchers could restrict the Yankees FA plans a year later.

      • http://Facebook.com/andrewjcalagna Drew

        The Yankee payroll will never be $300 million anytime soon but money is the last thing that will ever restrict the Yankees. We have a $35 million set up guy for Christ’s sake.

        • Ted Nelson

          They have an $11.7 mill 2nd closer…

  • Ted Nelson

    Definitely an interesting issue worth keeping an eye on. However, with 1.75 seasons until 2013 I think it’s early to say the Yankees should sign 2 of those guys. They may trade for a medium-/long-term guy before them and/or get strong production between now and then from 4 or even 5 in-house guys (CC, Burnett, Hughes, Nova plus any trade acquisitions and/or prospects… plus maybe Joba gets another shot in the rotation in 2012…). They may find a passable or good starter among the 2012 free agents. So, in a perfect world I’d say that the Yankees don’t need any of those guys since things have already worked themselves out internally. Most likely they could use one or two, but hopefully it’s more of a luxury than a necessity.

    I have a hard time seeing CC’s contract being anything but marginally more lucrative on an annual basis. He’s already slated for $23 mill per. Cliff Lee will get $25 mill per from 34-36. My interpretation is that CC would be looking to add more years and a marginal increase in annual salary. I’m sure he would love a $27-30 annual salary, but I’m very doubtful the market will be there.

    • Rick in Boston

      CC’s making $24.25 million/yr (roughy) right now. I can see it going to $27, mainly because the market will be similar to A-Rod’s post-2007.

      • Johnny O

        I could see the Yankees putting CC higher than Cliff Lee’s AAV just as a middle finger to Cliff.

      • Ted Nelson

        I believe his base salary is $23 mill per: http://www.baseball-reference......c.01.shtml
        http://articles.nydailynews.co.....act-clause

        The market for A-Rod post-2007 wasn’t what the Yankees paid him. I think all indications are that they bid against themselves there.

        If teams are willing to pay CC $27 mill per, why weren’t they willing to pay Cliff Lee $27 mill per?

        • Rick in Boston

          The market for A-Rod post-2007 was the only the Yankees. That’s the same market for CC this coming off-season – nobody else will be willing to pay CC as much as the Yankees are.

          • Ted Nelson

            They don’t have to repeat their past mistakes, though. They might, but they might also learn from them. 1 season after a better LHSP signed for $25 mill per, it would be hard logically to justify giving more to a lesser pitcher.

    • Tank the Frank

      I agree with you about CC. The increase in AAV should be marginal at best. Most likely using the Cliff Lee deal as a guide.

      I think you’re pretty bullish on our in-house pitchers considering what Hughes is going through and what Nova has shown us thus far. I think Nova is a 4-5 guy at best and could be useful because of his durability. I don’t think there’s any good reason to expect much from Burnett in his last year. If he’s healthy though, you stick him in the back of the rotation and Nova should probably be traded off by then. I also don’t think the Yankees will be able to get any long-term pitching solutions via trade this season. I’m thinking more along the lines of a Chris Carpenter rental.

      • Ted Nelson

        I’m not saying that these guys will develop. I’m saying that it’s the best case. Mike says “In a perfect world, New York would sign two of these guys.” My response is that in a perfect world they will not need to sign any of these guys, but may choose to do so as a luxury.

        My expectations are that they’ll probably be in a position where they could really use one, but hopefully not two 2013 FAs.

        Hughes is going through something similar to what Kenny Rogers and David Cone also went through.

        Nova has shown us a 3.73 FIP and 0.4 WAR in only 4 starts… that equates to a fWAR of 3 if he keeps it up. Hughes last season was at a 4.25 FIP and 2.4 fWAR. I’d be a little patient on Nova. And especially Banuelos, Betances, Noesi, Brackman, and the other guys who haven’t even pitched in the bigs yet.

        Burnett is going to be signed to big money one way or the other in 2013. If he’s solid between now and then he’s probably in the rotation. In a perfect world you ride him for that last season and have a stud young prospect in AAA or the pen waiting to take the reigns.

        Who knows what will be available this season? It’s speculation to say it will be Carpenter just like it’s speculation to say it’ll be Felix. I’m not going to waste my time either way.

    • Josh S.

      The Yankees should just put all this opt-out business to bed by giving CC a contract extension. Why role the dice and bid against themselves? Give him the contract that they would’ve given Cliff Lee while looking for another starter.

      • Ted Nelson

        At the same time, why re-sign him now if he’s asking for more than you think his market value is, he might get hurt before the season it over, and as an org you think there’s value in never negotiating in-season?

  • Mister Delaware

    Its going to be interesting to what the Yankees FO does if (when?) they’re forced to decide between wasting 600+ PAs on a faded star or buying out an albatross.

    • Ted Nelson

      Or paying him to sit on the bench/platoon. Or push him to retire as to not tarnish his legacy.

      • Mister Delaware

        I imagine the dollar value of a legacy isn’t greater than $10MM.

        • Ted Nelson

          Totally depends… I don’t know why you’d guess that number.

          You can pitch products, announce games, work for an org, own an org, sign autographs, make appearances, etc. If he’s 40-ish upon retirement and likes to 80, that’s 40 years. Your estimate is that his legacy being amazing champion captain vs. selfish cocky prick who dragged out his career as a below average SS for his final 5 seasons at the expense of wins for his team is only worth $250,000 a year?

          • Mister Delaware

            See: Biggio, Craig

            • Ted Nelson

              Biggio was never the Captain of the New York Yankees…

  • Pat D

    Cain, Danks, Hamels, Weaver, maybe Greinke.

    I doubt Weaver leaves LA though. Not optimistic about Cain or Hamels leaving either.

    • Rick in Boston

      Hypothetically, if Hamels re-upps for $15 million or more in Philly, the Phillies would be on the hook for just five players (a bunch of options), totalling $95+ million.

      San Fran’s payroll is going to start skyrocketing – right now, only Barry Zito is guaranteed a contract for 2013 (for $20 million). Lincecum, Cain, Wilson, Posey, and the Panda are all due arbitration or free agency after 2012.

      • Pat D

        I was going from the “vibe” reference point. As in that Cain and Hamels seem like the kind of guys who will want to stay where they are.

        But knowing those financials, it seems more likely they get squeezed out.

        • Mister Delaware

          The narrative on Hamels has always been that he’ll go back west when he’s an FA. Which is about as valuable as this post, but its the narrative.

          • Rick in Boston

            Agreed – remember the talk that CC wanted to stay in the NL/go back to Cali? It’s nice for trying to negotiate a large contract, but we know that it’s just a smoke screen.

            Unless you’re Johnny Damon, who always dreamed of playing in (insert current team’s city here).

            • Ted Nelson

              Or Cliff Lee, who just didn’t seem to want to be a Yankee/wanted to be a Philly.

        • Johnny O

          Weaver’s a Boras guy and based on that alone I’d say he’d be the most likely to become a FA.

          • Ted Nelson

            That makes sense, but if he wins the Cy Young this season it might also be time to cash in with the Angels. I know that’s getting ahead of myself, but if he has a great season this year he could regress going forward as easily as stay at that level or improve. And the Angels aren’t afraid to overspend… just ask… oh, anyone on their roster.

  • mike

    None of those guys compare to Felix…which is why i am rooting for Seattle to lose more than I am for the Yanks to win for the next month or so…open the farm, let the mariners throw out a net and take what they want, and set up a horse to match with CC and Hughes for the next 4-5 years.

    then, either/any/all of these guys do not become imperatives

    • Pat D

      I’m afraid wishing for Felix is just that.

      Unless he starts tanking or changing his public comments, there’s no reason for Seattle to trade him.

      • Ted Nelson

        The reason for them to trade him is if they feel they’re getting more value in return that they’re giving up in him. Like with any player. I’m not saying that will happen, but at some point there is a package the Mariners would trade Felix for. It would have to be an absolutely massive package.

        Basically, there’s no reason to give him away but there could be a reason to trade him.

        • Pat D

          And I think the only reasons are if they think he’s not trying, he starts griping publicly, or they decide they’re nowhere near contending by the time his contract expires.

          The first two haven’t happened and it’s too soon to call on the third one.

          He’s not getting traded this year, or next year as far as I can predict.

          • Ted Nelson

            No, the reason is if you get an absolutely massive package in return.

            • Ted Nelson

              Even if he’s not trying in 2011, the M’s don’t really care too much about 2011. He’ll lose lots of goodwill with them and trade value with other teams, but if they’re keeping Felix isn’t not to win 67 instead of 60 games in 2011. It’s for the future.

    • Tampa Yankee

      Can we please stop with the King Felix trade talk! What makes anyone think he will be available? So what if Seattle keeps losing this year. His contract is very team friendly plus, as I pointed out earlier, Seattle will either grab Rendon or Cole in this years draft. So they’ll either have an infield of Rendon, Nick Franklin, Ackley and Smoak, or rotation of King Felix, Cole and Pineda. Add in Ichiro and Gutiérrez if he can finally get healthy and possibly another top 5 pick next year they could become really good very quickly.

      • mike

        or, you trade Felix, and have Montero, Adams, Laird, Brackman, Betances and Gardy/Joba/Nunez -> or a combination thereof. Plus salary relief of $8-10mm a year to sepnd elsewhere

        waiting for Ichiro to be a +120 or Gutierrez to stabilize is whistling past the graveyard for them

        • Tampa Yankee

          At some point though you need to stop rebuilding and start trying to win. If you trade King Felix for 5-6 prospects you are delaying your future even farther. Keeping Felix and adding Cole most likely will allow you to contend starting in 2013. Getting Montero, Manny (no way that trade happens without him), Bentances or Brackman, plus others pushes you back to probably 2015 before you can seriously contend once they all go through their ups and downs in the bigs.

          That’s why that Yankees can hold onto Montero and Manny and wait for them to struggle, they have a solid core around them.

      • Ted Nelson

        This doesn’t prove anything. It proves that they don’t have to trade Felix, not that they can’t or even shouldn’t.

        If they trade him, it’s not going to be for crap. Their future would also be very bright with you subtract Felix from those lists and add, say, Jesus, Manny, Betances and more. (Or whoever, just a Yankee example.)

        You’re also assuming that all their young guys hit. They could become good quickly, or they could continue to suck as their young guys experience growing pains and some bust. Smoak and Pineda starting so hot doesn’t mean that this is their sustainable level of production. Ackley, Franklin and whoever they draft have no proven level of production at all.

        • Tampa Yankee

          All I was pointing out s that they don’t HAVE to trade him regardless of how much Yankee fans want them to. Plus, if they choose to trade him, they don’t HAVE to trade him to NY either. People act like it’s a forgone conclusion that he will be traded to the Yankees by seasons end.

          • Ted Nelson

            Yeah, I agree with that.

    • Ted Nelson

      Except that the Mariners might, you know, have a long-term plan. Felix is dirt cheap and 25 years old, they don’t have to trade him no matter how many games they lose. They could trade him, but they don’t have to.

      Also, I would trade a whole lot for Felix… but I would be careful just assuming he’s worth anything the Ms ask for. Especially when the meat of the Yankees’ farm is high probability guys in the high minors. For example, you trade 4 guys you feel have a solid shot at being 6 WAR per player–Jesus, Manny, Dellin, and Sanchez say–and just two of them hit… You’ve just traded 12 WAR annually for 6 WAR. There’s definitely a large opportunity cost and I don’t think it’s a no-brainer at all.

      • mike

        I agree Felix makes sense for the mariners to hold on to…but assuming that any of those guys will have a career similar to Felix is far-fetched, nevermind 2 of them….he has been the best pitcher in baseball for a few years, whereas Montero is- at best- a serious masher in the minors who s*it the bed in spring training, poses positional issues and has no clear position on the Yankees for the next few years unless he is stuck as the DH

        • Ted Nelson

          Felix has not been the best pitcher in MLB any years. He’s one of the best and still very young, but he hasn’t been the best by WAR, FIP, etc.

          Spring training, really? You know that those games don’t actually count and he was 21, right? You know Martin also “shit the bed” in spring training by your measure and he’s been creaming the ball so far this season, right?

          DH is a position.

          Of course the chances of any one of those guys being as good as Felix are not 100%. My point is that A. Felix is not invaluable and B. when you start talking about several guys that the Yankees feel have a good shot at being as valuable as Felix not all of them will necessarily fail just like not all of them will necessarily succeed. When you’re talking about guys doing it in AA and AAA at young ages, the odds also swing more in your favor.

        • The Big City of Dreams

          How do u sh*t the bed in ST?

          • mike

            By not hitting at all

            • Ted Nelson

              He hit about as well in ST as Robinson Cano… I guess Cano is also at best a masher in the minors… What? He’s arguably the best 2B and one of the best middle IF in baseball? No way…

            • The Big City of Dreams

              Didn’t Martin have the same or similar stats?

              • Ted Nelson

                That’s a Monteroisdinero fantasy. They had the same batting average, but their OPS’ were 168 points apart. Not that it really matters… Gardner’s ST OPS was also above Martin’s by 80 points and he’s struggled mightily to start the season while Martin is killing it.

                http://newyork.yankees.mlb.com.....ByStat=OBP

                • The Big City of Dreams

                  Thanks for clearing that up.

        • Tampa Yankee

          whereas Montero is – at best- a serious masher in the minorswho s*it the bed in spring training,
          SSS warning. Let’s not go basis the kids entire future off of a few ST at-bats

          poses positional issues and has no clear position on the Yankees for the next few years unless he is stuck as the DH
          He can whack it behind the plate and still be valuable because of his bat. Even if he is a full time DH, he still has a lot of value (see Edgar Martinez and Frank Thomas)

          • mike

            if your best minor-league prospect is going to be a career DH and offer no ability to play the field, you are really killing your roster, especially with an older group of players ( Arod, Jeter, Tex) who will likely end up spending time at that position in the future.

            both of those guys you mentioned could pretend to play the field earlier in their careers

            • Ted Nelson

              And Jesus can play or at least pretend to play one of the most valuable defensive positions on the field…

              If Jesus hits, he’s not killing your roster at all. That A-Rod can’t stick at 3B is pure speculation. Ripken stuck at 3B till 40. Same with Tex at 1B (who is only signed through 36). And Jeter at DH hurts your roster more than Montero, if Montero hits. What other old players need to

              • mike

                But the reality of the situation is that a young guy has to / needs to have the ability to play the field, and older players with offensive skills do offer a value by being able to rotate into the DH spot.

                thus, with an ageing infield of albatross contracts (and fan favorites) who are untradeable, having a DH slot open is a key part of the Yanks thought process moving forward ( IMO).

                • Ted Nelson

                  That’s not the reality of anything. That’s your opinion and the things generally work. Nothing more. It doesn’t matter what age different guys on the field are, what matters is their performance. You’re also still ignoring that Montero does play C. You know… one of the most valuable defensive positions on the field and a position where plus bats are extremely scarce.

                  Again… Ripken played 3B to 40, and A-Rod is only signed through 41. Tex is only signed through 36. Jeter is not someone you want DHing. Him being 16 years older doesn’t justify a 200+ point drop in OPS between he and a younger DH.

                  “having a DH slot open is a key part of the Yanks thought process moving forward ( IMO).”

                  DO you not see the huge contradiction there? It’s the Yankees’ thoughts, in my opinion. It’s not at all the Yankees thoughts, it’s 100% your opinion. And again, you are 100% ignoring the fact that Jesus is a C. He does have a position. It’s C.

              • mike

                also, Montero has ( in the opinion of most scouts ive been reading)horrific catching skills at AA/AAA level, where not only is his mobility a question, but they are running rampant on his arm. Im sure there are variables involved ( pitchers, filed conditions)but im sure these defficinces will be magnified at the ML level.

                Thomas and Edgar could play the field, and both guys stayed in the field until injuries took their toll

                • Ted Nelson

                  Piazza also had horrible C skills. So did Jorge… Those guys were still the most valuable Cs of their respective eras because of their bats.

                  As far as scouts… most scouts also didn’t think Cano could play 2B. Many thought the Twins made a huge blunder in drafting Mauer.

                  If Jesus is so worthless, why are the Mariners going to trade for him anyway? Again, trades come down to value.

          • mike

            and I wouldnt say we are basing a career off of 25 PA in spring training – but I bet everyone on the site would be happier than a 4 year old on a sugar-high if he went 15/25 with 4 HR in ST.

            Montero appears to be a great talent – which is the only reason Seattle would trade a greater, proven talent for him

    • The Big City of Dreams

      so if they want six players for King Felix the Yankees should let them?

      • mike

        IMO…yes – and if the Marlins want 6 more for Josh Johnson….I’d do that too.

        Build with pitching, get the best pitchers you can -and since the Yanks cannot develop young pitching, go get someone else

        • Mister Delaware

          Except they did develop Hughes (and Wang if you like), he (they) got hurt at the major league level. Which means that a factual fatalist would think we’d just end up hurting Johnson or Felix.

          • mike

            If CMW and Hughes ( at 1st round pick with a 5 ERA as a ML starter) represent the high-points of the Yanks ability to develop pitching over the past decade……please do not repeat that out loud as the Killer B’s futures just took a nose-dive as well :)

            • The Big City of Dreams

              His ERA as a starter is that high?

            • Ted Nelson

              The point is that there are too many factors involved to just look at the highlights… Mariners “developed” Felix, so it must have been all things they did right. It doesn’t matter that he’s an amazing pitcher. He has no input into his success. Likewise, Hughes hasn’t lived up to huge expectations and has merely been a decent starter through 24 years old, so the Yankees are clearly terrible at developing talent. If Felix signed with the Yankees (who did try to sign him) instead of the Mariners, by your logic the Yankees are great at developing pitching talent. It doesn’t work that way.

              • mike

                Not really – the results speak for themselves.

                The fact that the Yanks have not developed a “stud” pitcher in living memory is all the proof you need, and this is made worse as other teams have done “more with less” in terms of training facilities, paying monies over slot, roving pitching coordinators etc. when compared to the Yanks.

                Some teams have an apparent knack for doing it – Boston, Braves, Dodgers, Rays, Twins to name a few. The Yanks do not.

                • Mister Delaware

                  Boston developed Lester and … ? Laptop? The guy who came into this year with a 6.6 WAR to Hughes’ 6.3 despite being 2 years older?

                  • mike

                    Lester….Laptop….Bard….Paps…sanchez (marlins for Hanley)….Masterson.

                    not too shabby….and this isn’t considering Ellsbury, Youk, Hanley, Pedroia, Murphy (texas)

                    little better than the Yanks, doncha think??

                    • Ted Nelson

                      Bard and Paps are no longer starters… The Yankees also developed Joba, D-Rob, Melancon, Coke, Dunn, and this one guy they call Mo.

                      You’re giving Boston credit for everyone they trade away, but not the Yankees? Milton, Vizcaino, Tabata, Melancon, etc., etc.

                      Ellsbury, meet Gardner, AJax and Tabata to name a few. Pedroia meet Cano. Youk meet Nick Johnson (not the Yankees fault that he’s been so injury prone… the guy could hit). Hanley (who had proven nothing when they traded him) meet Jesus Montero.

                      You don’t even discuss who the Yankees have actually developed. Just that they’re clearly bad. The Sox record is not actually much better than the Yankees, if at all. Right now our farm is far more stacked.

                      Are you a Red Sox fan troll, by the way? Seems that way.

                • The Big City of Dreams

                  I agree that some teams have a better knack than others. It’s true in any sport that certain clubs have a better grasp at producing players than other organizations. That doesn’t mean the Yankees are clueless but it does illustrate how the first wave of pitchers hasn’t worked out they way we or even they hoped.

                  Ted made the point that teams with high draft picks producing great players isn’t the hardest thing to do which is true but at the same time I’m sure there are number 1 picks from those same teams that don’t make it. Hell the Pirates have had picks for a number of yrs and when was the last time they developed a stud pitcher.

                • Mister Delaware

                  And Joba had Buchholz by almost a full win heading into this year.

                • Ted Nelson

                  No. This is 100% false, and just plain ignorant.

                  That a team drafts a kid in the top 5 and he becomes good is not indicative of them being some great “developers.”

                  There have been plenty of guys in and out of the org in the last 15 years. You think

                  There was this one guy, Andy Pettitte, who is well within living memory. So, you’re not even right there. When are you going to start making some points that are even faintly correct?
                  They also developed Milton before trading him.
                  Nardi and Opp got their positions in 2005. Judging them on their predecessors’ success is just unfair.

                  “Some teams have an apparent knack for doing it – Boston, Braves, Dodgers, Rays, Twins to name a few.”

                  Let’s look at your actual examples…

                  Boston: Really? Lester. That’s it. And he was a pretty high pick anyway, early 2nd. Not like he was some diamond in the rough. Who else since Roger Clemens have they developed? 3/5 of their rotation is from out of house. Buchholz has proven squat. Like Joba, Paps and Bard were college starters they converted into relievers. Poor example.

                  Braves: they’re pretty good at it. One of their best prospects, though, was developed by the Yankees.

                  Dodgers: Kershaw was the 7th pick in the draft. Not exactly a secret he was a stud prospect. Billingsly was likewise a 1st. Who else besides those two? Again, 3/5 of their rotation is from out of house.

                  Rays: Absolutely loaded with top 5 picks. Price was the 1st pick in the draft. A beast. Niemann was the #4 pick. They do a good job, but without those picks and Young (who turned into Garza), they’re not nearly as impressive. No studs.

                  Twins consistently turn out talent, but few studs. Santana and Liriano both came from other organizations. Milton came from the Yankees. Otherwise, mostly mediocre guys who haven’t had much success after leaving.

                  Your examples mostly prove my points. High picks are much more likely to turn into stars. If you draft late in the round and lose your picks as compesation for free agents, you should not expect to be cranking out the Kershaw’s and Price’s of the world. Those kids were top picks for a reason. They also prove that one big success and you’ll be placated. Manny turns into a stud, Hughes gets back on track, and you’ll shut up. They don’t and you’ll keep bitching. Even if the Yankees take the exact same steps in both cases, in one you’ll judge them to have succeeded and in the other to have failed. That’s a great way to judge things…

                  • mike

                    The only person making an arguement aginst yourself is you.

                    Can you honestly sit there and tell me the Sox, rays, Braves, dodgers and twins have not developed more star players – or just plain good players – than the Yanks?

                    and dont tell me about draft position – the yanks get 1st round talent ( Betances etc) by paying over-slot in later rounds even if they dont get a 1st round pick, and they kill the international market ( Duke, Contreras, Little Duke, Irabu, Igawa) whenever they can with overwhelming offers.

                    To paraphrase..besides Lester, the Sox have developed squat???…. thats like asking Mrs Lincoln how she liked the play besides the shooting. Paps, Bard, masterson, Lester, Laptop, sanchez – this is all in the last 5 years! can you compare the Joba Fiasco, IPK meltdown and Hughes to that? c’mon.

                    Ill go you one further – put pitching aside – look at those teams I mentioned ( as well as others) and look for positional talent they have produced. Again, its not even close.

                    High picks have a greater likelihood of turning into stars….however not all high picks represent the best talent available at that draft position, and sometimes even higher talent is available further down in the draft. your point is moot and too simplistic

                    • Ted Nelson

                      A. Yes I can. The Yankees have developed a bunch of good players you are completely ignoring.

                      B. Again: CONTEXT. Joe Mauer was one of the top prospects in the country not only in baseball, but also football. Kid is a stud. #1 overall pick. Price was also the #1 overall pick. Longoria was the 3rd overall pick. Drafting a guy in the top 3 and having him succeed is not a given by any stretch, but every outcome is not controlled by the team. Mauer, Price, and Longoria may have had just as much success in any other organization.

                      “and dont tell me about draft position – the yanks get 1st round talent ( Betances etc)”

                      Great, you have one example. Nice. They don’t get top 3 talent. No fucking way. Even Betances was not a top 3 talent. If he was, he’d have been picked in the top 3 and would have actually gotten MORE money than the Yankees gave him. The very top of the draft is just a different ballgame. Having a #1 overall pick succeed and even a late 1st succeed is just totally apples and oranges.

                      “and they kill the international market ( Duke, Contreras, Little Duke, Irabu, Igawa) whenever they can with overwhelming offers.”

                      I’m not even counting those guys first of all. They didn’t develop them. They didn’t even win Irabu, they had to trade Ruben Rivera for him. Get your facts straight and stop spouting blatant lies and misinformation. They really overwhelmed for Chapman, Heredia, Sano, Iglesias, etc. didn’t they? You have no idea what you’re even going on about.

                      “Paps, Bard, masterson, Lester, Laptop, sanchez – this is all in the last 5 years! can you compare the Joba Fiasco, IPK meltdown and Hughes to that? c’mon.”

                      Yes, I can compare Joba to Paps and Bard. In both cases a starter was turned into a reliever. You are clearly just a Red Sox fan having some fun. Good luck with your 2 championships.

                      “Ill go you one further – put pitching aside – look at those teams I mentioned ( as well as others) and look for positional talent they have produced. Again, its not even close.”

                      This is obviously a joke. Look at the Yankees’ positional talent. They’ve produced tons of studs over the years. Have fun with your 2 championships in the crappy second rate city.

                      “High picks have a greater likelihood of turning into stars”

                      Yes. Game, set, match. That’s what my point is.

                  • mike

                    BTW…if we need to go back to Andy and Rivera to prove a point about developing pitching…….

                    • Ted Nelson

                      The current guys responsible in that department were put in their positions in 2005. We shouldn’t be going any further back for the Yankees. Yet you’re been pointing to how they haven’t developed pitching for decades… you said in living memory. Which is false. Since 2005, by the way, the results have been very good. No ace to date, but lots of MLB talent already up or on the way.

        • The Big City of Dreams

          That would be too rich for my blood but everyone has their own opinion on this subject.

          “and since the Yanks cannot develop young pitching”

          That’s the bigger issue which is the first wave of pitchers have been hit with injuries and ineffective performance so the Yankees are in a position where they are desperate for pitching moving forward.

          • Ted Nelson

            Moving forward I’m not sure that they’re desperate for pitching. Moving forward you’ve still got CC if he’s re-signed, and Manny, Dellin, Brackman, Nova, Hughes, Noesi, Stoneburner, Phelps, Warren, Hall, Mitchell, Marshall, etc. give you good odds of at least 2 or three working out.

            Most teams don’t develop 5 starters in house. Tampa is about it. Oakland traded for almost their entire rotation. Boston and LA are 3/5 ot of house. Phillies only developed Hamels, a mid-first rounder himself. Giants have done very well, but used 2 top 10 picks (Timmy and Madison), waited on Sanchez till he was 27 (vs. the impatience most show with Hughes and Joba in bashing the Yankees), also got Cain in the 1st, and paid out the ass for Zito.

            • The Big City of Dreams

              “Moving forward I’m not sure that they’re desperate for pitching. Moving forward you’ve still got CC if he’s re-signed, and Manny, Dellin, Brackman, Nova, Hughes, Noesi, Stoneburner, Phelps, Warren, Hall, Mitchell, Marshall, etc. give you good odds of at least 2 or three working out.”

              Yes there are a ton of potential arms the problem is like many prospects they will have their bumps along the way. That’s why I say they will be desperate moving forward because you just don’r know how it will work out.

              • Ted Nelson

                Not knowing how it will work out doesn’t make you desperate, though. If it doesn’t work out you’re desperate. If it works out you’re not. They have so much depth that I think there’s a good chance a few work out, and the great thing about depth is that if someone is struggling there’s someone right behind him. Plus they are dealing from a position of strength, and if a starter comes on the trade market they can easily go get him. I think they have far too many options moving forward to be desperate for any one option. When you’ve only got one option… like with CC or maybe a bit less so Lee… that’s when you’re desperate. If that one option doesn’t work out you’re in a bad spot and scrambling. When you have a bunch of options and one falls through, you still have a bunch more.

        • Ted Nelson

          Again, just trading all your prospects for one player has a huge opportunity cost. I’m not saying I wouldn’t do it in some cases. I’m saying that by completely ignoring that there is an opportunity cost, you’re being foolish. Building with pitching doesn’t just mean getting one pitcher. If you trade your 6 top prospects for Felix/JJ and their shoulder goes… guess what? You don’t have the ace anymore and you also don’t have any young talent coming up anytime soon. There is a point where you take that risk, but there’s also a point where the opportunity cost of getting the ace is too high and you don’t. Just acting like there’s no opportunity cost and every team should trade their farm for any ace is illogical and quite frankly annoying.

          • mike

            Ted- i dont mean to annoy you :)

            However, if i have a moment tonight i am going to do a little project and see the ramifications to the Yanks if, starting 15 years ago, the Yanks theoretically traded all their 5 highest ranked prospects at that time for a Top 5 AL starting pitcher, and repeated the same thing every 3 years (allowing time to replenish the system).

            Lets see where we shake out

            • Ted Nelson

              Pretty important who they trade for… Sure, if you in hindsight pick the guy who went on to continued success that’s going to work great. If you trade for the guys who blew out their arms, it’s going to suck.

              Let’s go back a bit further and say they trade Jeter, Bernie, Mo, Jorge, and Pettitte all for one starter… how would that have worked out? Pretty crap, huh?

  • Tampa Yankee

    To me the salaries coming up over the next few years plus the holes that will need to be filled if they let players like Swisher and Graderson walk (now way Robbie goes anywhere) is the reason why it is important to continue to build the farm and not trade away key pieces that will be needed as low-cost options. Players like Manny, Jesus, Slade, Murphy, Sanchez need to be held on to to fill those spots.

    • mike

      there is no reason they would let Granderson walk, and Swisher’s production is replaceable (with perhaps better D to boot).

      AAA players / stars in the minors are wonderful to have, but tend to be fragile and most never pan out….plus with the Yanks recent history of demonstrated inability to develop young players to their potential….ill take a Felix any day

      • Ted Nelson

        Swisher was the 3rd best hitting RF in MLB last season according to wOBA. His overall fWAR was 8th among RFs. He can be replaced, but it’s not going to be easy and probably not going to be cheap.

        I’m not sure that Tampa Yankee was talking about Felix. As far as we know the Mariners have not offered Felix to the Yankees.

        “AAA players / stars in the minors are wonderful to have, but tend to be fragile and most never pan out”

        How about quantifying that a little before throwing out blanket statements like that?

        By this logic you also would have traded away Felix, A-Rod, Pujols, etc., etc. when they were prospects too. They don’t all work out, but some do. And while I don’t totally agree with Tampa Yankee, if you fill every position with a $15-20 mill player, you’re looking at a a payroll that may approach $300 mill.

        “plus with the Yanks recent history of demonstrated inability to develop young players to their potential”

        This is not what they should be thinking about in making decisions. The fact that Hughes and Joba haven’t worked out as well as hoped but have still worked out before turning 25 doesn’t have anything to do with whether Manny, Dellin, Brackman, etc. work out.

        • mike

          The reason you go “all-in” for Felix is- unlike Swisher -having an ace/horse at the top of the rotation is huge in terms of the production they provide and the trickle-down effect on the rest of the team ( ie bullpen, other starters etc.).

          every offseason there are a few FA outfielders who can match/exceed Swisher-like production, whereas players like Felix are never going to hit the open market in their prime.

          And do we really need to discuss the Yanks inability to develop young players, or their poor job in developing positional players, or their butchering of young pitching?

          • JobaWockeeZ

            Going all in for Felix won’t work. Despite people believe there’s no such thing as an overpay giving up Montero, Sanchez, Heathcott, Romine, Hughes, Joba, Betances, Brackman and Banuelos and Cano is foolish.

            Keep the elite and trade the rest for someone good in their own right.

          • Ted Nelson

            I wasn’t comparing Swisher to Felix in any way whatsoever. I was just saying that replacing Swisher isn’t just in the bag. He’s been a damn good RF for the Yankees for two seasons.

            “whereas players like Felix are never going to hit the open market in their prime.”

            Do you even think about these things before you write them? Just in the past few years CC and Lee have both hit the open market. Lee was better than Felix just last season.
            Of course Felix is valuable. No one is saying otherwise. I am saying that your stance that Felix is invaluable and no price is too high for him is totally illogical and ridiculous.

            “And do we really need to discuss the Yanks inability to develop young players, or their poor job in developing positional players, or their butchering of young pitching?”

            I guess we do… What the hell are you talking about? You are not actually analyzing their player development as such, you are just examining the results. You have to consider the inputs and context for that to have any meaning at all. No org has a perfect track record of turning out 5 HOF players from their farm every season. You have to establish what is good, the norm, and bad before even discussing the subject. You also have to consider what talent went in before discussing how it was developed. That teams take top 5 picks that everyone knew were stud amateurs and would have loved to draft and they become successful MLB players doesn’t necessarily mean they did anything right in developing them. Likewise that they get hurt or bust doesn’t necessarily mean they did anything wrong. They can’t control a prospects genetics, personality, or upbringing. They can’t control luck.

            The Yankees have turned out the best 2B in baseball and a starting CF coming off a 5 WAR season recently. They’ve turned out Hughes, Joba, Robertson, Nova. They have arguably a top 5 farm system. They’ve traded away tons of prospects they acquired as amateurs and developed: AJax, IPK, Coke, Vizcaino, Tabata, Dunn, Clippard, Melky, Melancon, McAllister… The results have been fine.

            • mike

              Where to begin…

              Cano is not the best 2B in baseball….that little pesky fella with that title happens to work in Boston, and Cano has far exceeded any projection when he was in the minors – good for him, good for the Yanks. It certainly has helped cano grow as a player to be in this stacked lineup since he was a rookie, so i think the environment as you stated is important as well.

              I didint say you were comparing swisher to felix….my point is with revenue sharing and greater risks being taken by GM’s in locking up young talented pitching there is going th be a dirth of young pitching talent available for trade/FA in coming years, and proof of that is the pathetic FA class of this and next year, as well as the overpayments given to lackey, CC, AJ, Lee etc. in terms of years.

              To quote…
              Hughes, Joba, Robertson, Nova. AJax, IPK, Coke, Vizcaino, Tabata, Dunn, Clippard, Melky, Melancon, McAllister…

              I think you forgot Pena too :)

              all this talent since 2007?? I think the point is pretty clear. I dont mean to disparage these guys, but this is hardly proof of a team’s ability to develop top talent

              • The Big City of Dreams

                Cano is not better than Dustin?????? No disrespect to Pedroia but c’mon now.

                • mike

                  I love Cano, and i do think Pedroia takes great advantage of Fenway and will not age that well, but his range is incredible and he hits everyone.

                  If i were starting a team I’d take Cano, but Pedroia is something else

                  • The Big City of Dreams

                    Dustin is a good player no doubt about it but I think Cano is on a different level.

                • Ted Nelson

                  The guy is just a Red Sox troll.

    • Tank the Frank

      Agreed. You’re looking at a hole at SS, 3B (A-Rod will most likely DH at this point) and possibly two OF spots. That’s why I believe in Cashman’s stance that he’s not going to trade top prospects unless it’s for top flight pitching.

      • Rick in Boston

        I’m thinking we’ll still be seeing A-Rod playing the field in 2013. At that point, Montero will probably be splitting time with someone else (Martin/Cervelli/Romine/etc.) and DH’ing when he’s not behind the plate.

    • Ted Nelson

      Prospects working out would be huge, but that doesn’t mean you just hold onto every prospect in your system every year. Especially with guys in the low minors. You can get better value from trading prospects for proven players in some situations.

      • Ted Nelson

        Basically, I don’t see why it has to be such an extreme either/or… either they trade everyone or keep everyone… There’s a lot of middle ground where they can strategically move players in what they feel are good value trades.

        • mike

          i totally agree, and I doubt the Yanks would go that high to get him in terms of prospects as i suggested, especially since they didnt do it for Lee last year, who likely would have secured them another WS appearance and made his FA a done-deal as well.

          however, when you have a chance to get a top player, you dont let Eduardo Nunez stand in the way and break the package – the one thing the Yanks have shown is an ability to overpay when needed, and if Felix comes up – > that is the time to empty the farm

          • Ted Nelson

            A. I don’t think Lee is at all comparable to Felix. The Yankees knew they were getting a shot at Lee a few months later. They figured they’d offer the most money and if they built his bank account he would come. Didn’t happen. Felix’s trade value would be MUCH higher because he’s dirt cheap and 25. The M’s HAD to trade Lee or lose him for nothing but comp picks in the offseason. They don’t have to trade Felix for years and years unless they choose to. He’s stuck there if they want to hang onto him.

            I also don’t think Nunez stood in their way of anything, but Jesus and really Smoak. Nunez is just a media narrative. The M’s apparently cut the Yankees out as soon as the Rangers offered Smoak. The Yankees would have given up their best prospect in a decade when his value was low after a slump for 1/2 a season of Lee. GREAT non-deal.

            B. You also look for value. The Yankees have arguably a top 5 farm system. You don’t just indiscriminately offer prospects for anyone. Again, your logic would lead teams to just deal Pujols, Felix, etc. as prospects for whatever veteran they could get because they might fail. It’s not a science, but you hope an org has some feeling for how likely their guys are to succeed. For example, everyone questioned the M’s for putting Pineda in the rotation to open the season and he’s dominated.

            • mike

              A. As i recall, the fact that the Yanks didnt immediately substitute Nunez when the M’s rejected Adams allowed the Rangers to get ionto the process with Smoak/others. IMO, and according to the narrative, if Nunez went to Seattle immediately, Lee was a Yankee.

              True, everyone thought Lee would come to NY for $, and true, Felix is worth more to the M’s than Lee was….and True the Yanks will have to pay more to get him than they would have Lee – i dont recall saying a similar package as offered for Lee would get the job done -> in fact, my arguement is that you blow the M’s away so they cannot say “no” because of the immense talent of Felix and his worth to the Yanks.

              B. The Yanks have a “top 5 ” farm system because their ML roster is loaded and thus their minor league players are suppressed- most every other team in baseball would have Laird/Montero playing ( or as a september call-up last year) or one of the B’s in the bullpen etc, rather than spending $35mm on an 8th inning guy, or other money on Chavez/Jones to sit on the bench 5 days a week.

              If any one of the top guys came to the ML roster, their rank would take an immediate hit – and the ML roster might not be any better because of it.

              I personally agree with the strategy of the Yanks to give the young players more time to mature and hone their skills, and substitute value-ML players to fill the gaps -> but that does skew the minor-league rankings as well

              • Ted Nelson

                That was the media narrative of what happened. Not a testified version of what happened. Might have been the case, but the RAB narrative from what has been heard is that when Smoak came onto the table it was a done deal and the M’s backed out on the Yankees.

                “have Montero, Adams, Laird, Brackman, Betances and Gardy/Joba/Nunez”

                You’re not even offering Manny here, and you later said that it would probably take less given what they let Lee go for.

                “The Yanks have a “top 5 ” farm system because their ML roster is loaded and thus their minor league players are suppressed”

                That’s not true. Even if Montero or Laird had been jumped from AA in September (and Laird isn’t much of a prospect anyway…), they’d still be considered prospects as they’d still be counted as prospects entering 2011 as they’d still have rookie elibibility. So, fail there. And Manny, Betances, Sanchez, Marphy, Slade, etc., etc. would not have been called up by hardly anyone. There’s tons of talent. The Royals are not good, and they aren’t rushing their prospects either. The Yankees are often accused of rushing their top prospects, actually, so your theory holds no water with me.

                • Ted Nelson

                  Basically you say the Yankees should blow the M’s away, then make an offer that I don’t think the M’s would consider.

                  • mike

                    the royals are not bringing people up because of financial considerations, which is further proof that GM’s are locking up their talent for as long as possible. Other teams are being more aggressive with their young guys… but we all know this.

                    I can’t recall the last prospect the Yanks were accused of rushing ( by someone other than Francessa or Wally Matthews) other than Joba….since Jose Rijo or Leiter, maybe??

                    The Yanks really high ranking is predicated on 2-3 guys ( Montero, sanchez and Manny), and if one of those guys were on the ML roster right now the Yanks system rank would be lower than it currently is, correct? Rookie eligability is not being discussed – the relative strength of the minor league talent when compared to other teams is the issue, and in a closed set like this when the talent gets promoted, the minor league rankings will suffer. Not that hard.

                    also – if we are speaking of logic, why would the Mariners dismiss an overwhelming offer for a player? That is illogical.

                    • Ted Nelson

                      “the royals are not bringing people up because of financial considerations”

                      Come on. You’ve got an excuse for everything. The Yankees do something and it doesn’t count. The Royals don’t bring their AA players up and they’re smart. The Yankees have a damn fine farm system. No matter what you Red Sox fans think.

                      “I can’t recall the last prospect the Yanks were accused of rushing”

                      Umm… Jesus, Sanchez, Hughes, IPK, Eric Duncan… Do you know anything about the Yankees, or do you guys not find these things out in Boston?

                      “The Yanks really high ranking is predicated on 2-3 guys ( Montero, sanchez and Manny)”

                      A. No. They’ve got strong depth. Betances is top 100, so is Brackman. Romine is borderline top 100. Murphy, Slade, and Flores are all outproducing Sanchez as we speak on the same team.
                      B. They are not holding those guys back. They are all VERY young for their levels. Jesus is 21 in AAA. Manny is 20 in AA. Sanchez is 18 in low-A. They’re all among the youngest at their levels in baseball. Do you think about these things before you type them? Half your points are demonstrable lies.

                      “Rookie eligability is not being discussed”

                      Yes, it is. Those prospect rankings all rank players who still have rookie eligibility. Freeman counted for the Braves and Pineda for the Mariners. They both were in MLB to start the season. Hellickson for Rays. Drabek and JP for Jays. And the difference between a guy being in AAA and on the roster is not really that great anyway. Their value isn’t greatly impact by it in most cases.

                      “why would the Mariners dismiss an overwhelming offer for a player?”

                      Because it’s not at all overwhelming. Manny is not in it. Sanchez is not in it. No MLB proven talent. Your saying the Yankees don’t have a good farm outside Manny, Gary, and Jesus, then saying an offer that doesn’t include 2 of the 3 would overwhelm the M’s… which is it? Can’t have it both ways… (I’d say it’s neither by the way… have a great farm and that offer would cause the M’s to laugh and hang up until you included at least Manny.)

    • viridiana

      Exactly. Yanks can very possibly fill four or five pitching spots internally. Maybe just one or two starters but plent of bullpen options eventually.

      Having a little trouble with premise of article. Who are the
      six players that will get upwards of $130 mill? CC, Tex, ARod, of course — that’s about $70 mill. Who are the other three $20 million ballplayers signed for 2013?

      • Ted Nelson

        Jeter, Burnett, Soriano.

  • Joe

    Some other options are Haren, Floyd, and Guthrie. The last two are obviously worse than the first.

    • Joe

      Haren has a team option for 2013.

      • Mister Delaware

        I keep hoping Anaheim shot themselves in the foot with Wells and his contract and will have to move Haren sooner rather than later.

  • awy

    why do you have doubts about jeter’s useless status

  • Reggie Jackson’s Candy Bar

    screw these guys…we have Bartolo Colon…he can pitch forever

  • Alfredo

    the yankees top flight prospects will develope to be very good its just a gut feeling. i also think the yankees will go out and get Yu darvish to help the rotation and how bout worrying about our team getting old when they are old.

  • Alfredo

    the yankees will do something this year but they will still go out and get Darvish.

  • JobaWockeeZ

    Out of that list I see one option barring injuries that the Yankees will be able to pursue.

    And before you scream out I mean that most of those guys will be locked up before hand.

  • viridiana

    Wow, I hadn’t realized ARod will still be sucking down $29 mill in 2013.

    Still, this is much too pessimistic a post. With Hughes going down and disappointment with Joba, this is the highest level of frustration and negativity I’ve seen towrds the farm system since before the Core Four (plus Bernie) changed everything.

    And it comes at a time that we have every reason to think system can
    fill 8-10 roster spots with young talent by 2013. I’m counting on just one or two starters and perhaps three bullpen arms (very reasonable cosidering number of arms we have). Add to that Montero as DH/ back-up catcher, Romine as catcher, Nunez, maybe two among Adams, Murphy, Laird, perhaps Flores and you have perhaps eight or nine guys contributing but earning short money. That would help alot, though the Yanks would still have to be wise in where they fill holes system can not plug. But it seems doable so long as the farm is not foolishly surrendered in unwise deals.

    • The Big City of Dreams

      “With Hughes going down and disappointment with Joba, this is the highest level of frustration and negativity I’ve seen towrds the farm system”

      ————————-

      And it’s not just RAB go to any other blog/board and you will see legit anger about how the big 3 has turned out. And the whole time I thought I was the only one :D. But all jokes aside you’re right ppl are really upset with how things have gone with the big 3.

  • Alfredo

    some of those guys will still be available by 2013 and hopefully we get one. I have really falling inlove with Yu darvish everytime i see one of his video i fall in love even more. the yankees should go after him hard.

  • JobaWockeeZ

    It also assumes that Rafael Soriano won’t be using either of his opt outs.

    Why not though? Granted his suckiness doesn’t last? Everyone uses their opt out.

    Please for my sanity opt the fuck out.

    • MikeD

      Soriano will opt out no later than the end of 2012.

  • Reggie C.

    With the fall of Phil franchise picking up speed, i see Yu Darvish set up for the biggest pay day in Japanese baseball history.

  • David in Cal

    Better factor into the 2013 budget another $15 million for a shortstop. It’s hard to believe that Jeter will still be a viable big league SS in 2013. Then the Yanks will have to pay Jeter another $6 million for him not to play in 2014. Bad, bad contact.

  • MikeD

    The new CBA needs to be set so they know what they’re dealing with around the luxury tax.