Open Thread: Rob Cano
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(AP Photo/Gail Burton)
Over the last two season, no player has been more integral to the Yankees’ success than Robinson Cano. Well, maybe CC Sabathia, but we’ll stick to position players tonight. Cano, who turned 29 back in October, has hit .311/.365/.533 with 87 doubles and 57 homers since the start of the 2010 season. In terms of fWAR (12.1) and bWAR (10.9), Robbie’s been the 10th and 11th best position player in all of baseball over the last two seasons, respectively.
Eleven years ago today, the Yankees signed Cano as an international free agent out of the Dominican Republic for just $150k. That’s $25k less than they gave Melky Cabrera the very same year. Cano has been the Yankees’ best homegrown position player since Derek Jeter and Jorge Posada, an MVP candidate who’s come into his own as one the game’s best players over the last few seasons. Is there a player on the team more fun to watch hit? I don’t think so.
* * *
Here is tonight’s open thread. The only local team in action is the Rangers, who Time Warner customers still won’t be able to watch because the Dolans pulled MSG. Use this thread to talk about anything your heart desires, it’s all good.
144 Comments»
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I love Robbie. Hopefully they get an extension done soon. Couldn’t picture him in another uniform.
And as bad as it may sound, I don’t want him to use his leverage to make the Yankees overpay for him. The Yankees track record with this sort of thing hasn’t been great.
Best MLB comparison for Brad Meyers and Cesar Cabral?
Robert Fish and Daniel Turpin.
Haha.
Realistically where would he go, rather who else could afford him and accomodate a 2nd baseman?
The Yankees can’t compete financially with the Marlins
The Marlins are ruining baseball.
‘Too Much DineroBall…..’
Rob Cano? Sounds like when the Pirates insisted on referring to Roberto Clemente as “Bobby” so he would appeal more to the white audience. Crazy.
Except that it’s not the same at all… Robinson is not a Latin name, his father wanted to name him after Jackie Robinson, so there is no cultural bias for the shortening. Mike was just saving space.
Yeah, I know Mike wasn’t doing that. And if Cano was playing 40+ years ago, I definitely wouldn’t put it past someone doing that back then.
Robbie Cano, when all is said and done: more or less of a household name than Jeter?
Much, much less. My mom knows Jeter, she probably doesn’t know Cano.
Cano is much more likable in my eyes, however.
Did Jeter send your Mom and “memorbilia”?
That was uncalled for.
I actually enjoyed it.
And: Yes, yes, he did.
Less…. By far. The Derek Jeter Machine was well underway by the time he made it to this point in Robbie’s career.
That said, I think I’ll remember Cano as a better player, unfairly overshadowed by megastars in pinstripes and midget douches in Boston
You’ll remember wrong then, and its really not close. Don’t let the over hyped ‘intangibles’ blind you to how good Jeter was.
Yeah, no shit. Jeter’s career has become so overrated in popular opinion that I think it’s underrated now. If that makes sense…
How can you really overrate one of the top 5 SS ever? I think the saber crowd (which I consider myself a part of) mostly hates him because the media hype over his intangibles and the silence on his defensive issues. As a pure talent, he is worthy of his status.
And by ‘hates’ I obviously don’t mean hates, I mean underrate. Not that there weren’t plenty of people absolutely relishing writing him off earlier this year, however.
I think the backlash is because he’s really not top 5. He’s more like top 10. He’s clearly in a group below the top echelon of SSs. He’s in the Barry Larkin/Alan Trammell group just below the Honus Wagner/Arod group.
The constant argument is one group saying he’s top 5, and another group quite rightly is saying he’s not quite in that group.
He won’t even be top 5 as a Yankee.
Ruth
Gehrig
DiMaggio
Mantle
Rivera
Ford
A-Rod
Berra
Maybe we can have a debate about Berra, but there’s no way he cracks the top 5.
None of those other players were shortstops…
(And I’d put Jeter ahead of Rivera)
“as a Yankee”
The earlier comment was about Jeter being a top-5 all time shortstop, not top-5 player overall.
I would take Jeter over Rivera.
That’s fair, and if you go by career WAR Derek will get the nod. But Mo has been so dominant at his position from a historical perspective that I’d take Mo.
True, but comparing a closer to a SS isn’t a 1:1 comparison.
Jeter IS a Top 5 SS… maybe even Top 4.
Mo is a Top ONE Reliever.
The Jeter vs ARod as a SS is interesting. At this point, Jeter has accumulated more WAR (or had a better career if you’re not sabermetrically inclined) as a SS than ARod did. Obviously ARods peak is much higher, but he was a SS for roughly half as many games as Jeter.
When discussing the relative merits of each player as a SS, I think it’s necessary to mention that Arod moved off the position in the prime of his career to massage Jeter’s ego.
Arod is still 1 HR away from the all time lead at the position.
Well no shit since ARod has half the time at SS as Jeter. ARod even being in the discussion in terms of WAR speaks to how great he was as a SS.
I think the backlash is because he’s really not top 5. He’s more like top 10. He’s clearly in a group below the top echelon of SSs.
Go ahead, back that up if its so clear.
I personally would put him in the top 5, but I will admit that an argument could be made to put him just outside it – but not very far. Regardless, you’re splitting hairs to prove my exact point. Exact personal rankings aside, we are talking about one of the all time greats, how overrated can he be.
Despite your schoolyard taunt and the fact that you are the one making the claim that he’s in the top 5, ok.
SSs clearly better than Jeter:
Honus Wagner
***Gap***
Arod
***Gap***
Cal Ripken
***Huge Gap***
George Davis
Robin Yount
Next group:
Jeter, Appling, Cronin, Larkin, Trammell, PeeWee Reese, Ozzie Smith
Nothing wrong with saying he’s top 10, even saying he may be a top 5 SS is fine, but when he gets put in the upper pantheon as a no brainer top 5, it is just wrong.
I’d take Jeter over Cal. Even if you disagree he isn’t “clearly better”.
I think he is clearly better when you factor in the offensive eras they played in and the replacement SS in their respective eras, but okay.
Did you factor in Jeter’s clearly superior OBP/BA? Also has him edged in SLG and OPS+ (to account for eras).
I did.
Ripken played in an era when offense from SS just didn’t happen. Jeter didn’t.
http://www.3-dbaseball.net/200.....ecade.html
Ok? If Jeter played in Ripkens era he’d still be better and vice versa. Not his fault he played in the era of roided up shortstops
I’m not getting into a steroids debate, but every era immediately after expansion is accompanied by an explosion in offense. Jeter benefited just as much as every other player of that era from playing at that time.
Steroids were known and used for the entirety of Ripken’s career as well. So were amphetamines. Testing was not used during his era.
I understand Wagner at the top, and A-Rod at #2 because of his dominance. I would draw the line after those two. I would rate Ripken above Jeter, yet I’m not too sure. After that, I can not rate George Davis ahead of Jeter. A turn-or-the-century player who played about 1300 games at SS, while spending lots of time in third and the OF. The problem with a lot of top-ten lists is they rate a players total career value, or even WAR value, and give all that credit to the position the player is identified with. So Davis gets all WAR credit at SS, even though his career was split at three positions, with SS being the most. Same with Robin Yount, is he really ahead of Jeter? His career as a SS ended at age 28 when he played 120 games there. Jeter’s already played 1,000 more games at SS and was highly productive as a player through his age-35 season. I can see why some might rate them ahead, but one can argue that the “next group” is all those players, and Jeter’s case is just as strong.
I would actually have Arky Vaughan at #3, and I rate Larkin ahead of Jeter, although I seem to be in the minority on this.
I have Jeter at #5.
The media and the common fan treated him like a top 5 player during his peak years. He wasn’t which is why you can argue he has been overrated.
I understand that, and years back I used to have these debates with non-Yankee fans on that very point. Jeter may be overrated by Yankee fans, but he was underrated by non-Yankee fans who would never recognize he strengths, and always focus on the negative.
When you enter a debate with someone who uses the word “overrated,” just end the conversation, because the very word is a conversation stopper. It says nothing about the player, but about perception. It’s the quicksand of debates. Anyone who uses it really isn’t serious about the debate.
Should be:
Wagner
Nomar
A Rod if the Sox had acquired him
Scutaro
Jose Iglecias
Pedroia’s potential at SS
Spike Owen
Edgar Renteria
John Valintin
****wicked lahhhgh gap****
Jeter
/BoSox’d
Rick Burleson, the Rooster, demands to be added no lower than 4th!
Bravo. Yogi would understand perfectly what you are saying. I collect Yogisms. Tis one is very good.
He has a long way to go before he can be on the same line as Jeter as a Yankee. His stats have been there so far, but Jeter has a been a Yankee for 17 years — the likelihood of Cano doing the same is slim. Cano at age 39 just doesn’t sound that appealing, but I’d love for him to prove me wrong.
Love Robbie, but Jeter has hit for better average, taken more walks, ran the bases better, plays a more premium defensive position, as of right now has four more rings and put up an MVP caliber season at age 35. Robinson would have to maintain his peak well into his 30′s and be the best player on a lot of WS winners to top the Captain.
I think the new Yankees strategy should be to sign a player like Robert Cano every year from DR for $150K. Maybe even 2 or 3 players like that. They should go back to basics like they did 11 years ago today.
Sounds simple enough, what can go wrong?
I wouldn’t be so quick to exclude Panamians in that strategy as well… at least for relievers.
Good point. They should also employ the same draft strategy that they used in the 22nd and 24th rounds of the 1990 rule 4 draft. I don’t understand why they don’t.
As a wise man once said…
“Stay classy, Cashman.”
Twice said!
Ravel Santana was signed for a similar amount, and he’s all over the Top 10 prospect lists.
It’s almost as if you can’t predi….nah.
If this Robert Cano can hit like Robinson Cano we’ll be sitting pretty for a long time
I’m unfamiliar with this Robinson fellow.
Here’s to you, unknown Robinson.
Didn’t know YES supported a country that wants to destroy the U.S.
Come again?
Do explain your random comment…
They are running ads from Citgo which is owned by the Venezuela government whos “president” has a stated goal to destroy the U.S.
Yawn.
Hugo Chavez? Didn’t the Cubs just trade him to the Marlins?
He has a YouTube video in which he outruns a cheetah and hits a ball over Space Needle. Why haven’t the Yankees signed him yet? Cashman is cheap.
No but Venezuela did. They are getting Logan Morrison and cash in the deal.
Fernando Venezuela?
He’s part of the deal too. Going to serve as a mentor to LoMo in his twitter campaign to rule the country of Venezuela.
Toss in Hector Villenueva and you’ve got yourself a deal!
Done and done.
They somehow just threw in Paul VuvuZuvela. I’m going to miss that guy.
Wait, the guy with no eyebrows? When did the Pistons get involved? Does Isiah know?
Ozzie Guillen is a spy.
more importantly, the company whose logo looms over the green monster
it’s doubly evil
venezuela or goldman sachs
which has come closer to destroying the united states?
Ha!
+1, but I really don’t want to talk about it.
Spare me. What’s next, boycotting a town that allows a Citgo gas station to be built.
Yawn is right Plank…
They also run Fox Business Network ads. Your point again?
Yeah, I’m sure Hal is a closet socialist.
I’ve never seen Hal and Bernie Sanders in the same place.
This Bernie character…. Happen to be in the military? Coronol by chance?
/hungryforKFC
I guess those WAR numbers are why Dave Cameron said Cano was “not even in the discussion” for best player in baseball?
Of course, can we really trust Ryan Braun now…?
Dave Cameron’s said a lot of dumb shit lately. Or at least he’s voiced one-sided arguments that have proven to be wrong.
I doubt if Dave Cameron were blogging, say, the Yankees, the BBWAA would have accredited him.
Any word if Yankees have any interest in giving Prior another shot? He looked pretty good before going all MARK PRIOR on them.
He pitched 12 innings (4 above rookie league.)
Saying he looked good last year is like saying Eddie Gaedel looked good before he was cut.
I thought he looked good in spring training, take that however you wish.
I am incredibly sad at the Eddie Gaedel line going over people’s heads.
Eddie Gaedel is Pedroia’s Great, Great Grandfather.
Gammons had Gaedel on his HOF ballot.
It went over Eddie’s head too, but then again, that was Veeck’s plan.
If only he could cut down on the bad pitch swings and draw more walks, he’d easily win an MVP award.
He can look great and look down right terrible the next at-bat.
Best swing in baseball when he effortlessly turns on one and hits a rocket 400+ feet. One of the best things about Cano is right in that picture. That smile…the dude just loves playing the game.
I find it wildy ironic that Cano and Pedroia are playing for rivals in the same era. There couldn’t be two more opposite players. Cano makes everything look effortless and gets viewed as a slacker. Meanwhile Pedroia puts all 47 inches and 126 pounds of his body into everything he does. I bet he wears eye black to bed.
Cano clearly spent too much time dozing under the banana plants. Pedroia ekes every single shred of ability he can.
I do wonder how Pedroia’s career will play out. Great player, but I wouldn’t be surprised if his production tails off a lot after 2-3 more years.
You mean wear down? Yeah, I suspect Pedroia was a six-footer in Junior High.
So, how about those Flyers fans beating up on two Rangers fans, one of which happens to be an ex-marine and cop? Apparently, a “fan” posted a confession on a fb fan page for the Flyers.
http://www.broadstreethockey.c.....er-classic
Stay classy Philly phans.
Every now and then I venture over to Boston.com to read the Sox threads…mostly for laughs.
Well, today was just great. They got idiots on there saying they need to have Nava as the starting RF this year. Another poster said to move Pedrioa to SS.
You can’t make this stuff up….
Any dumber then the people you see on here clamoring to move Nunez to catcher?
A serious question. Should the Yankees consider trading Bob Cano (just trying the name on to see how it feels!)?
If CoJo continues to advance, and/or David Adams shows he’s fully recovred in 2012, then the Yankees could have a cheap 2Bman in house. The Yankees can then do what other teams have done, which is trade their high-end star just before his decline, and get back a package of top prospects who can help the Yankees and do it more cheaply. They can then take the money they were going to spend on Cano and direct it toward other players. If done properly, the Yankees can have a cheaper team, and a better team, and not pay Cano $20+ million a year for his age-32 to 38 seasons. I really think Cano’s lack of plate discipline will lead to a rapid decline by the time he hits 33/34.
The Yankees never do things like this, but times are a changin’. Maybe they should. Thoughts?
His initial decline may be better than Adams and CoJo’s peak combined.
I agree with that. I don’t expect them to replace Cano’s production, but suggesting it might make sense for the Yankees to trade him at peak and the overall impact of the players received back, and the Cano money spent elsewhere would make the Yankees a better team.
Not saying they have to, but they may want to start considering moves like this if they really intend to remain competitive while controlling costs.
Hypothetically speaking, you don’t let him walk for nothing…
You’re nuts, the Yankees are not going to ever trade Cano, he’s their best player and is still getting better. He will be a Hall of Famer and go down as one of the greatest second basemen ever.
http://cdn0.sbnation.com/impor.....medium.gif
And people still argue in favor of pitchers hitting.
Not a fuck was given about running out that dribbler to second!
Awesome!
Who made up a trade rumor today?
Saw some reference to it on twitter.
I’ll make one up!
Mason Williams, Manny Banuelos, and Brett Gardner for Justin Upton.
BOOM!!!
Your trade proposal sucks.
Found it. Some guy said Gavin Floyd for Drabek and Deck McGuire was going down.
Wait, wouldn’t you say “My trade proposal sucks” since you were the one to say it?
Skippy Cano for Melky, IPK, and Tyler Clippard. Use money saved to re-place less offensive bid for Japanese player.
Watching baseball players age is like looking in the mirror.
Rob is 29 ya all… Remembering him coming up back in Columbus Clippers days. Like yesterday, wow.
Robbie has been my favorite player since Bernie retired. I loved him since day one, his swing is the sweetest I have seen since the heyday of Ken Griffey Jr. Disclaimer: I’m not saying he’s as good as Griffey Jr., but in my lifetime, those are the two guys who stick out in my mind with the most beautifully smooth swings.
Daryl Strawberry would like a word.
What fish related player names are there?
I’ll start:
Tim Salmon
Mike Trout
Robert Fish
Steve Trout
Robinson Tilapia
I made one of those up.
Does Johnny Pesky count?
I heard Joe Pesci had a mean changeup.
Dude… That’s cracking me u. Thanks for that
Mike Carp of the Mariners.
Not sure if just active, but of course Catfish Hunter.
Do phish related count? like Kuroda?
Fluffhead Fielder
Brandon Bass! Of the not baseball playing Celtics!
Not sure if anyone has seen this, but I got a good kick out of this…
That’s hilarious. Who made that?
No idea, but you can make your own: http://www.youtube.com/create_detail/Xtranormal
And you can post it on the web.
Love that. If the roles were reversed, I’d be in love with that gal. As it stands, she made me laugh and barf at the same time.
Just something I’ve just realized. Not that such a thing is necessarily bad, but is this one of the least changed from the previous year 25 man rosters in recent years? I certainly don’t remember having the exact same rotation going into the year, the exact same top end of the bullpen, and the exact same position players. Only change is Montero for Posada. even the bench may turn out the same. Kinda cool. What do you guys think?
Last year’s team was fairly similar to the 2010 Yankees, too.
I think it’s just a by-product of having lots of long term contracts and arb eligible guys, not necessarily by design.
The rotation isn’t the same. No Colon.
Yeah but 60% of the rotation changed last year. And Colon didn’t start in the rotation last year.
It’s going to hurt not having a Colon.
Over/Under on Ronnie/Sammi fake breakups this season:
Zero.
Oh sorry, I mis read the question. I thought you asked how many fucks we give about Ronnie/Sammi fake breakups this season…
Don’t act like you don’t care.
How dare you check my TiVo when I am not looking.. I mean, I don’t…..
I’m glad I have no idea what you guys are talking about. I presume it’s reality TV.
(Please don’t tell me)
Bobinson Cano…that just happened.
WTF?