Sunday Night Open Thread

David Phelps will replace Freddy Garcia in rotation
Marshall strong in Trenton loss
Almost awesome. (Mike Stobe/Getty Images)

After nine games against the Red Sox, Rangers, and Tigers, the Yankees come away with a 5-3 record and one rain out. Not too shabby considering the mostly terrible starting pitching. Thankfully the schedule lightens up over the next few weeks, which will hopefully allow the Yankees to fatten up their win total before the second half.

Here is your open thread for the night. The ESPN Sunday Game is in Texas for the Rangers and Rays (Holland vs. Price), plus there’s also NHL and NBA action on various networks. Use this thread to talk about whatever’s on your mind. Go nuts.

David Phelps will replace Freddy Garcia in rotation
Marshall strong in Trenton loss
  • flamingo

    fatten up their win total before the second half

    Let’s not rush the season that much!

  • Plank

    So the Yankees ended up going 7-5 (with a rainout) against the Twins, Red Sox, Rangers, and Tigers. I thought going 7-6 would define a successful outcome in that tough stretch. They did slightly better.

    Good job Yankees.

    • jjyank

      Agreed. The overall record during that stretch is perfectly acceptable. Considering the starting pitching struggles and a few key slumps in the lineup, I will most certainly take 7-5. The fact that the Yanks are 12-9 overall is actually pretty impressive considering the problems they’ve had.

  • GardnergoesYardner

    So April is largely over, aside from tomorrow’s win… I mean game against the Orioles. I think we all have to be relatively satisfied with the team’s record right now, considering some of the starting performances that we have turned into wins. CC, as demonstrated today, still is our best guy, and Kuroda turned in a solid outing in Texas, and should pitch well against Baltimore tomorrow. Nova has been good all year, aside from Friday’s game. Hughes and Garcia have sucked, but at least steps are being taken to solve the problem, ie Phelps starting and a quick hook for Hughes. The pen has been lockdown, no exceptions. The offense has been hot and cold, but generally has given the team enough, especially Jeter and Granderson.

    I don’t think there’s a reason to be disappointed with April, if you expect the starters to improve. We should be able to overtake Baltimore, and even Tampa is that much of a problem. A good month overall.

    • jjyank

      You pretty much just elaborated on the point I made above. I agree with your assessment.

  • DUgan

    It’s about time Girardi woke-up!!!

  • John “Bradshaw” Layfield

    I feel sorry for the poor sucker GM who he lured in by Hamilton’s inevitable monster year and gives him 10 years. Just hope it’s not us…

    • first name only male – Retire 21

      I’m not big on absolute statements, but there is no way Hamilton gets 10 year deal. I do think someone will severly overpay, but more likely in money than years. Say 6 years/$150 million.

      • GardnergoesYardner

        You’ve obviously never met Jack Zduriencik.


  • first name only male – Retire 21

    I’ve noticed that lately the most successful Yankee prospects are surprises (ie players who surpass their ceilings). Who was the last highly ranked Yankee prospect to reach their ceiling with the Yankees?

    • the other “D.J” of the Yankees (formerly STONE COLD Austin Romine)

      Alphonso Soriano not Cano.

      Before him Jeter

      • first name only male – Retire 21

        I had forgotten about Soriano. I went all the way back to Jeter. As long as more players like Nova, Gardner, Nuñez, Robertson and Cano keep coming out of “nowhere” I’ll be perfectly fine.


  • willx


    • http://none Bernard

      Actually, Cano wasn’t that well thought of when he was in the minors. Scouts thought that his easy going style meant that he was lazy, that he lacked serious effort. Then he was included in a trade, but the trade fell through because one of the other prospects in the deal was injured. That’s a true story. Lucky for us.

      • pistol pete

        Cano was also offered up in the Arod for Soriano deal. Cashman gave Texas the choice of Cano or Joquain Aries. Texas choose Aries, whew.

  • Clyde Barrow

    CC did what an ace does, give us innings when the rest of the staff struggles and also get us the W. There are no more excuses for Hughes. We’ll be facing Baltimore KC and Seattle, not Detroit, Boston and Texas. He has to step it up or Andy will take his spot. Phelps has already replaced Freddy and Hughes will be next if he doesn’t turn it around.

    • Midland TX

      Which excuses are you talking about, exactly?

      “I left too many balls out over the plate” isn’t an excuse.

      And doesn’t it make sense to hold off discussing the circumstances of Pettitte’s return until after his start tomorrow?

      Just calm down dude.

  • Clyde Barrow

    And with Swisher down let’s dispel this rumor that we’ll sign Bobby Abreu. Why don’t we just coax Bernie Williams out of retirement so that Ibanez, Bernie and Abreu can man the outfield? We need a defensive replacement who can play the field.

    • jjyank


    • Bunt Gardner

      Where have you seen that rumor?

      • G

        I said it, mostly in jest.

  • willx

    He asked who was the last… So that was cano, if he had asked, who was the 2nd to last player to reach his ceiling with the yankees, then yes it would be soriano

    • first name only male – Retire 21

      Bernard’s point, and my own, is that Cano surpassed his ceiling. There weren’t any scouts who thought Cano could do what he is currently doing.

      • jjyank


        Cano is like the Nova of position player prospects, only better. Cano was not a top prospect at all, but he surpassed that. The question was how many “blue chip” prospects have the Yankees produced. Cano was never a sure thing, blue chip prospect.

        In fact, Cano represents the Yankees’ strength. Obviously the failure to develop blue chip prospect, like Joba and Hughes, is a problem. But the Yankees seem very adept at taking guys like Cano, Robertson, Nova, Gardner, etc., and helping them achieve more than the scouts thought the could.

        I actually ran a very small Yankee blog back in my undergrad days, and during that time I was beating the drum for Robertson as a sleeper prospect. If we knew what Robertson would become, would we be calling him a sleeper in hindsight?

  • first name only male – Retire 21

    I am in no way a Cashman basher, but I find it strange that he gets crucified for the Pineda trade/injury which he really couldn’t forsee, but nobody seems to beat him up for signing Sweaty Freddy and letting Bartolo walk.

    • Clyde Barrow

      People always counter it by saying, “But Bartolo wore down last year!” Of course he did. He came back from the dead and threw more innings than he did in years. Of course he got tired. Which is why this year you manage his innings better and make sure he can last until October. At this rate Freddy won’t make it to May.

      • jjyank

        Okay enough of this nonsense.

        “He came back from the dead and threw more innings than he did in years.”

        Yes. That does not mean he was simply tired. It could have been a HUGE red flag that the Bartolo renaissance was over. The dude spend YEARS away from the game, and such a large increase in innings, combined with his “tiring” could easily be interpreted as “his shoulder is about to explode again”. Jeez, Bartolo wasn’t even good enough in the second half to make the bullpen of the post season roster. Can we stop playing hindsight GM please?

        How do you know this was the right decision? Garcia isn’t working out, but at the time he was a safer bet than Colon was. What if Colon blows his shoulder up 2 weeks from now and he was on the Yankees? Would we all be screaming for Cashman’s head for not heeding the warning sings from the second half of 2011?

        • first name only male – Retire 21

          In Clyde’s defense, from a fan’s persepective everything you’ve stated is correct, but that’s why the Yankees have a medical staff and a pro scouting department. The idea is to minimize speculation and make the most informed decision possible. While it was possible that Bartolo’s shoulder was blown to hell, the Yankees shouldn’t base a decision on a maybe.

          • GardnergoesYardner

            Your reasoning is off, and it’s because of what the Yankees were looking for. Last year, Garcia proved to be an innings eater, while Colon, while dynamic early on, slowed down majorly in the second half. The Yankees weren’t trying to catch lightning in a bottle again. They preferred to pay for the stability of Garcia and save a spot in the rotation for a later acquistion. I think it was pretty much universally agreed that they weren’t going to bring back both.

            jjyank’s reasoning is exactly right. Why would they take the guy who hadn’t been successful in years and whose arm was probably tired as hell due to the big innings increase over the sure fire (before the year) innings eater? Hindsight is 20/20, and those who try to make their argument by saying that it isn’t come off as misinformed.

            • jjyank

              Right. Bart’s huge innings increase after years away from the game is not a redeeming factor, it’s a red flag. Sure in hindsight, you can say that, but there is no way, with any certainty at all, you can say that Colon was the safer bet at the time. Do you think it’s a coincidence that Colon both signed late in the offseason and with a non-contender? I don’t believe so. That’s likely because most other teams were thinking the same thing.

              If there’s one thing I hate about discussing baseball, it’s the armchair, hindsight would-be GM’s.

            • MannyGeee

              You guys realize Bart played a full season in the Domincan league before he showed up to ST last season right? Dude was at 250IP in and 300 pounds. No shit he was tired!

              • Need Pitching

                but wouldn’t 250 IP (that seems higher than reality, but I’ll go with it) in a season after years of barely pitching a huge red flag for the next season, especially for a pitcher with Bart’s injury history

                • jjyank

                  This. I always thought the mantra with these scrap heap guys was to try to catch lightning in a bottle for a couple of months to a year and then let them go. We did that, and now we’re giving Cashman shit for not resigning him? What reason did Colon give anyone to make us believe he could repeat last season?

                  Please, please please, take hindsight out of the equation. I swear if I see Colon’s 2012 stats one more time, Imma kill a bitch. Stop GMing from your special time machine arm chair.

              • Mike Axisa

                He threw 37.1 innings in winter ball, not 100.

  • Clyde Barrow

    Colon’s pen let him down in the 9th but he had a shuutout going until the 9th, something Freddy won’t do ever again. I still don’t know why we let a guy go that can throw a 93-95 mph two seamer and kept an over the hill junkballer who can’t throw an 85 mph four seamer.

  • RetroRob

    Did the Yankees ever consider Luke Scott for the DH role? He’s a lefty and can play the OF, fitting both of Cashman’s needs. I’m guessing he either signed before the Montero trade, and/or was too expensive.

    • GardnergoesYardner

      Both, I think. Although I agree, he would have been a good fit.

    • Need Pitching

      he signed the day before the trade news broke
      he signed for 6M guaranteed (too high for the Yanks apparently)
      he’s a confirmed asshole, iirc

      • GardnergoesYardner

        Forgot the asshole part. But then again, he has called out the Sox and their fans multiple times, something no one else in MLB seems to have the balls to do.

        • murakami

          Gary Matthews Jr essentially called them racist, said they always directed epithets at him. I’d say that’s calling them out.

        • RetroRob

          He’s a bit out there, although I don’t know if he’s viewed as a problem in the club house. Seems actually just the opposite. I did find it odd as I typed his name into Google search that the instant results listed Luke Scott racist as the second choice.

          I didn’t dig too deep, but it seems he’s on the more far right-wing, likes guns, hunting animals and is a birther. That of course means he’s a racist to the far left. To me it means he’s a bit, ummmm, oh never mind, this could degenerate into a political discussion in which I end up insulting everyone.

          I don’t care if a player is extreme right or left, as long as he can hit or pitch, and is not a clubhouse cancer. Seems that Luke’s teammates like him.

          If the choice is Delmon Young or Luke Scott, from what I can tell, I’ll take Scott.

          • JohnnyC

            If you don’t think he’s a racist, look up what he admits he said to Felix Pie (and considered “helpful” advice). Whatever. Maybe you like plantains as well.

            • RetroRob

              Oh, I would never attempt to defend a man based on bloggers commenting on bloggers commenting on bloggers from orginal source material that has itself come under question. Nor would I convict him based on that same material.

              Soctt is a dumb shit based on what I’ve read, but I’ve never met him, and his teammates like him, including Felix Pie. The Rays and Joe Maddon didn’t have an issue bringing him on board, so I guess they were comfortable that he’s not a raging racist who is going to cause problems on the team.

              I’m glad you got it all figured out, Johnny, just like all the racists who think they got it all figured out too.

              Plaintains? Nah. Never liked them.

      • jjyank

        Yeah, pretty much this. He might have been a good fit, but he was unavailable at the time, too expensive, and yes, a dick. And from what we’ve seen of the Yankee drafts, they like good character guys. Say what you will about that strategy, but that might also apply to MLB talent to a degree.

  • GardnergoesYardner

    Has anyone found it interesting how Tex’s April woes have not been talked about at all this year?

    I’d imagine it’s because of his hot April last year and his hot stretch last week, but still, I just thought that was funny considering that’s pretty much the number 1 thing Kay and co. said when he started off slow in 09-10.

    • Bunt Gardner

      Do you mean in the mainstream media? Because it’s been mentioned a lot on here.

      • GardnergoesYardner

        Yep, that’s what I meant.

  • ThatstheMelkyMesaWaysa

    Seems like Austin Jackson has panned out pretty well for the Tigers. Obviously he’s no Grandy, but he certainly has time. I saw him in Spring Training in ’08 and he looked promising. I got a couple autographs from him and I’m hoping he does well so they’ll be worth something.

    • jjyank

      He’s a nice player, but he strikes out way too much for a guy with no power. I like A-Jax and I wish him well as a former farm hand, but I would do that trade over every single time.

    • GardnergoesYardner

      Gotta work on those over the fence catches, or he’ll never amount to anything.

      He’s got potential, but he needs to cut down on the K’s. From what I saw this weekend, he seems to have done that a bit. It’s funny though, it seems like that trade impacts every Yanks-Tigers game. Scherzer and Coke both gave up homers to Granderson, who nearly had one of them robbed by Jackson.

      I’d take Grandy 10 times out of 10 though. Not worth it for them to trade him. If it was due to monetary issues, how come they were able to sign Valverde that same year, and then V mart and Prince in the next two years?

      • jjyank

        Yeah my thoughts exactly. A-Jax is like Brett Gardner with strikeouts instead of OBP ability. Losing IPK sucks in hindsight, but considering we got an MVP candidate back, that’s a trade you make every day.

  • Duh Innings

    If the Yanks don’t at least reach the World Series, especially if they get swept or win only one game in the ALDS or ALCS, Cashman should be fired because this is what he should’ve done but didn’t do in the offseason which might’ve produced a better outcome even if it was only an extra win in the ALDS or ALCS:

    – Re-signed Colon for the $2M Oakland signed him for ($1.1M raise.)

    – Kept Montero and Noesi.

    – Passed on Kuroda and a guaranteed contract to Ibanez ($10M saved since the raise for Colon would’ve been equal to what the Yanks signed Ibanez for – no need for them with Colon re-signed, Montero and Noesi kept.)

    – Offered Ibanez a minor-league contract he probably would’ve taken to be insurance for Montero in case Montero absolutely sucked or got injured in spring training. If Ibanez turned down the offer, fine, Montero is the DH.

    – Offered Garcia a minor-league contract where he makes $4M base if he makes the club. If he turned down the offer, thanks for 2011, Freddy.

    That’s it. Montero would’ve been the DH. The rotation to start 2012 could’ve been Sabathia / Nova / Hughes / Colon / Noesi or Garcia. The Yanks probably would’ve still re-signed Pettitte, made Phelps their long man / mopup man / rotation insurance, and traded for Stewart. If Hughes, Colon, or Noesi/Garcia sucked, just replace him with Pettitte (or Phelps if Pettitte wasn’t ready yet.) If any two from Hughes, Colon, and Noesi/Garcia sucked, just replace them with Pettitte and Phelps (Noesi if he didn’t make the rotation.) Hughes and/or Noesi could be sent to AAA (Noesi to the bullpen if not AAA), and Colon could be easily traded (his taker pays the remainder of his already pithy $2M.)

    Cashman basically spent $15.1M ($10M for Kuroda + $4M for Garcia + $1.1M for Ibanez) on one-year contracts for players who are 35 years old or older and most likely won’t be Yankees after this season to do jobs which would’ve cost less than $3M had Ibanez and/or Garcia not made the team ($2M to Colon + slightly more than the rookie minimum to Noesi + the rookie minimum to Montero.) What a @#$%ing idiot.

    • Need Pitching

      GM’ing sure is easy after the fact, aint it

    • GardnergoesYardner


      2. If Pineda was pitching well, than everyone would thank Cash. But just because he’s injured, everyone wants a do over on the trade. Not gonna happen. Of course, with hindsight, you want Montero.

      3. Your ideas are basically this year’s team, switching out Colon for Garcia and not doing the Montero trade. I don’t see where anyone could have issue with the Kuroda signing. Money is not an issue right now, as even if we had extra money, there is no upgrade to allocate it to. The rotation would be noticeably weaker in your scenario. And calling Cash a blanking idiot is ridiculous for any person, as he has put together a great team. So basically you’re like every other Pineda trade hater.

      Nice try.

    • jjyank

      Alright then. Point by points of why you should be fired from commenting on a blog:

      “- Re-signed Colon for the $2M Oakland signed him for ($1.1M raise.)”

      There is no doubt in any rational person’s mind that Freddy was the safer bet at that time. Colon faced a monumental innings increase after spending years away from the game and fading terribly down the stretch last year. Do you really think it’s a coincidence that it took a non-contender until the end of the offseason to sign Colon? Because I don’t. I think just about every other team thought the Yankees caught lightning in a bottle for a year and stayed away from Colon for fear of his shoulder blowing up after the workload increase.

      “- Kept Montero and Noesi.”

      Nobody knew Pineda would get injured. It is a fact that most baseball evaluators thought this was a fair trade, so the fact that Pineda got injured after the trade has NOTHING to do with the original decision. And who cares about Noesi? I liked him just fine, but he is completely replaceable.

      “- Passed on Kuroda and a guaranteed contract to Ibanez ($10M saved since the raise for Colon would’ve been equal to what the Yanks signed Ibanez for – no need for them with Colon re-signed, Montero and Noesi kept.)”

      And if/when Colon blows out his shoulder? Kuroda was a far, far safer bet than Colon. Noesi probably wouldn’t be any better than Phelps/Warren/Mitchell.

      “- Offered Ibanez a minor-league contract he probably would’ve taken to be insurance for Montero in case Montero absolutely sucked or got injured in spring training. If Ibanez turned down the offer, fine, Montero is the DH.”

      Okay, then Ibanez probably doesn’t sign with us at all. If we’re playing the hindsight GM game though, Montero hasn’t been much better than Ibanez so far.

      “- Offered Garcia a minor-league contract where he makes $4M base if he makes the club. If he turned down the offer, thanks for 2011, Freddy.”

      Similar to what I said above, then Garcia doesn’t sign with us. After last season, if you think Garcia would accept a minor league deal, you’re insane.

      Dude. You suck at GMing. This is why you comment on a damn blog. Cashman is smarter than you.

    • Bunt Gardner

      Have bothered to look at Noesi’s stats this year, or does that ruin the tale you’re trying to weave?

    • RetroRob


  • http://none Bernard

    Are there any of you with Irish ancestors? Just wondered. I discovered an amazing web site: and click onto Search Church Records. Then enter a last name.

    • http://none Bernard

      Colon? No! Garcia? No. They’re not Irish. Try another name.

  • http://none Bernard

    Where did everybody go????

  • darren

    Has Prince surpassed Big Daddy yet?

    If not, how much more would it take?

    Use any criteria you wish in answering – rings, money, stats, clutchiness, WS performance, VORP, looks, not gambling, weight.

  • Plank

    The Yankees are on pace to win 92.5 wins. With their team, I would say 94 wins is a realistic total. So basically exactly as they’ve played so far.

    • Kevin

      I will say this year..I don’t know if 92 or 93 wins will be enough to win the division. Tampa is the biggest threat to that IMO.