Aug
19

Mailbag: Trading Curtis Granderson

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(AP Photo/John Dunn)

Biggie asks: I love the Grandy Man, but with the 2014 budget in mind do you think it would be wise to re-sign Nick Swisher, pick up Curtis Granderson‘s option and then trade him (similar to Gary Sheffield)? Granderson’s defense, strikeouts, and relying on two things that age saps (homers and speed) makes a long-term deal scary for me. Thoughts?

I’m not a big fan of doing that. When the Yankees traded Sheffield after 2006, they did so because they already had a viable replacement in-house (Bobby Abreu). The internal replacement for Granderson is … Zoilo Almonte? Melky Mesa? Chris Dickerson? Nope, they aren’t cutting it. The free agent alternatives aren’t very appealing either, whether they keep Swisher or not.

Perhaps there’s a scenario in which the Yankees dish Granderson for prospects that they could then turn around and include in a package for Justin Upton — essentially a three-team trade — but that doesn’t seem very realistic. A lot of things had to fall into place to pull off the original three-team deal that brought him to New York in the first place. Doing it again isn’t impossible, just unlikely.

At the end of the day, I have a very hard time seeing a way the Yankees could trade Granderson this offseason while actually improving the team. The goal is still to win now, and Curtis helps them do that. Unless Swisher winds up getting Jayson Werth-type offers, I would prefer to see the Yankees bring him back and let Granderson walk after 2013. He’s a bit younger, I think he’s a better bet to remain productive going forward, and I think the contract will be more palatable. There are a lot of assumptions with that obviously, but that’s all we can do until we see what the market says the value of these two is after the season.

Categories : Mailbag

108 Comments»

  1. Edmond says:

    Maybe we can trade him to Detroit for Ajax? Is that a 1-1 swap?

  2. Will The Thrill says:

    I love Grandy but his approach has deteriorated this past year. Pitchers have figured him out it seems. He has more holes in his swing than a slice of Swiss cheese has holes. As cliche as it sounds he’s become a three true outcomes kind of guy. I’m not sure how he fits in our lineup anymore considering he is piling up those strikeouts at an alarming rate and Swisher seems to flourish in the two spot.

    Also his stolen bases/speed have disappeared. He’s still one of the better outfielders in the game but I’m not sure the Yankees should spend Jayson Werth money to keep him. If Grandy wants to give us a discount then that’s fine. But anything more than $70MM and I say the Yanks should lt him go.

    And Mike what’s with the hate of our farm? I for one am a huge Zoilo Almonte fan and I think that with instruction from Kevin Long and our veterans can take his talent to the next level. Cano had very similar numbers in the minors to Almonte.

    • Havok9120 says:

      Your argument deteriorates when we start thinking Almonte could be good because he had similar numbers to Cano. Robinson Cano is one of the best hitters most of us are likely to see.

      As for the rest…I think Mike’s biggest point (for Curtis and Cano) is that trading them while actually improving the team right now is very difficult to do. There is currently no reason to believe that we’re not in the hunt for the World Series (not just a playoff spot, but a championship) both this season and the next. Why would we make the team worse in response to that? I mean, even if you think Almonte could replace him in the field and/or hit for average, is he going to replace 40 homers a season and the ability to play virtually every single game?

      • dalelama says:

        You are delusional, this Yankee team has choked harder than Mama Cass the last two post seasons and now without Posada and Rivera it is very likely that they will do so again.

  3. Bill Toncic Jr says:

    The only way I see them moving CG for prospects is if they believe signing Josh Hamilton as an FA would be an upgrade( athletically yes,but….) but JH brings his own problems & living in the Big City might be too much for him to handle.They need to fit Cano & CG or JH under 2014 cap so CG gets moved if they pursue/sign JH. I don’t logically see that happening but stranger things have happened!

    • Will The Thrill says:

      The only way we sign Hamilton is if:

      1. He really wants to come to New York and gives us a discount.
      2. We trade Grandy and let Swisher go since it would be hard to have Hamilton along with Grandy/Swish under contract.

      • Robinson Tilapia says:

        The only way we sign Hamilton is if:

        He morphs into another player that will actually be worth his contract, and the damage he’d do to the team’s budgetary constraints, in a couple of years.

        Maybe Plouffy and I can build a Tardis and figure that one out.

        • jjyank says:

          This. Why are people worried about Granderson’s potential decline, and not worried about Hamilton’s?

          • Mike Axisa says:

            Because they don’t watch him play everyday.

          • Ted Nelson says:

            Huh? Every time Hamilton comes up people basically argue that he will definitely decline. I agree it’s a big risk, but if anything I think people tend too much towards overstating the likelihood he declines.

            • jjyank says:

              Plenty of people advocate for Hamilton, Ted. I don’t think it’s a stretch to expect him to decline sharper than many others due to what he put his body through.

              • Ted Nelson says:

                I think that’s a small minority here based on past discussions. Every time Hamilton comes up the vast majority of comments are no way.

                I’m sure it’s had some impact on his body, but how much is speculation. A lot goes into decline and longevity. Some guys like David Wells don’t seem to take care of themselves and have long careers. Some health freaks have nagging injuries they never shake. If Hamilton’s been extremely healthy since his abuse, how is that measured against a Miggy (alcohol) or Braun (PEDs) or testosterone user? Then again, is Hamilton on testosterone or other PEDs?There are reasons to think a lot of top players might not age well. Many won’t, some will.

                I am more concerned with his injury history than drug history. Those might be related, they might not be as much as you’d think. If he hurts his knee or something people tend to link that to drugs, yet a lot of guys with no drug history hurt their knees.

                I am most concerned just with signing any guy to a massive deal into his decline years.

                Anyway, my point wasn’t even about whether he’s more likely to decline decline. (I think it’s very possible, though I think we’d have to look into it deeper.) It’s that people are so sure he’ll decline that I think they go to the opposite extreme.

                • jjyank says:

                  I don’t disagree with anything you said. I was just making a point that advocating signing Hamilton over Granderson doesn’t make sense to me given that the potential for decline MAY (not a certainty, but his injury history and past drug abuse at least allow for some informed speculation) be greater than Granderson’s.

                  That said, I don’t want the Yankees to sign either, to be frank. I’d rather put Gardner in center for the time being and find a corner guy.

                  • LiterallyFigurative says:

                    Even if you are concerned about Hamilton’s decline, you have to ask yourself:

                    Who is the better player? And who do you think would be better in a few years, even after the inevitable decline?

                    Hamilton hits for average, power, has good OBP. Granderson hits for power and has a decent OBP. Hamilton can play center as well as Grandy, and when either declines defensively, you have Gardner/Slade/Mason to play CF.

                    If Hamilton (due to injury/past drug concerns) can be had for, 5/110M, and Granderson can be had for say, 5/90-95M, I’d take Hamilton due to the fact he’s BETTER than Granderson, to the point where Granderson’s best year is one of Hamilton’s good years.

                    • jjyank says:

                      Right, but Granderson stays on the field more and Hamilton’s ability to hold up as he ages is in greater question. Like I said, I don’t really want to sign either of them. Which player will be better over that 5 year period? Hamilton isn’t a slam dunk. He could be better for 2 years but then never play the field again. Too much risk, I would pass.

                    • Ted Nelson says:

                      jjyank, I still think you are overstating Hamilton’s relative risk.

  4. Kosmo says:

    I like the idea of resigning Swisher this off season 3/33-36. I´m on board trading Granderson in a deal that nets Upton. I wonder what a deal like that would look like?
    If Granderson walks after the 2014 season who takes his place at a reasonable value? Resigning Granderson will cost NY, something like a 4 or 5 yr deal 16-17 million per.

    • Will The Thrill says:

      We probably would trade Granderson and prospects to a third team who then would ship a third baseman prospect or player to Arizona. Then they would theoretically trade Upton to us.

  5. blake says:

    I think it depends on a couple of things…..1) what can you trade him for? 2) what can you replace him with? 3)what will it take to extend him?

    Granderson will be like 33 when he hits free agency and with the new CBA and the Yanks new way of operating they can’t afford to just lose guys like Granderson with nothing in return…..they need to turn assets into more assets if they aren’t going to just buy new players in free agency any more.

    You could approach him with a team friendly extension and see if he bites….if not though then I think they should at least see what they could get for him…..but obviously you really can’t trade him unless you can replace him with something pretty good either in that trade or in another deal or signing.

    to me it’s something to explore but tough to know if they should do it without some questions being answered.

  6. Mike HC says:

    My guess is that Granderson will be the better player than Swisher over the next 5 years. But the contract is also a factor. If Granderson is going to be twice the price, or maybe even more, than I would probably prefer Swisher. But maybe the difference in price won’t be so considerable, and then I would prefer Granderson.

    And of course, I would rather keep em both!

    • Ted Nelson says:

      I don’t know. Granderson is no longer a CF and his swing has been very inconsistent throughout his career.

  7. blake says:

    The thing you really want to avoid with Granderson is signing him to a deal that a prime age 30+ homer CFer would warrant…..because while that’s what he’s been the last couple of years….it’s highly unlikely that’s what he’ll be over the course of that new contract…..you don’t want to pay for 2011 and 2012 performance for 2013 and beyond….

  8. viridiana says:

    I have long argued for re-signing Swisher. Valuable contributor, obviously, and reduces pressure the following off-season when decisions must be made on Grnady and Cano. Those two will have Yanks by chops — especially if Swish is gone.

    But i do think these is fallback if Swish goes. And I would not ignore the farm, especcially as it offers platoon options. Both Almontes hit righties well. Z. Almonte destroys them. He has a .315/.357/.576 line that has been improving of late. He has clubbed 16 HR and 17 doubles in 257 ABs against righties. i see him as a very viable platoon option, perhaps with Mustelier swinging against lefties. At some point, Yanks will have to start working in youngsters to meet budget target. This would at least be woth a try as interim option til Austin/Heathcott/Williams wave arrives.

    • blake says:

      the contract is the biggest thing with Swisher….I think he could get over paid by somebody given that there won’t be a lot of good bats available this winter (and that one just got suspended 50 games and caught making a fake website trying to cover it up)…..so it just depends on what he costs.

  9. viridiana says:

    Still might be worth overpaying him a bit. Signing Cano will require humungous overpayment. I figure Boras will ask for 10/$250m and wind up finding a sucker at nine years. Personally, I’d go to something like 4/$60m on Swish if market dictates. Beyound that, though, I too would be wary.

  10. BC203 says:

    Even under the new CBA, we would still get compensation for Grandy if we offered him a 1 yr contract in 2014 (it just has to be more than the average of the top 125 players). So even letting him walk generates some return.

    I would think they would explore trade options, but for all the reasons that were just mentioned, why would anyone else want to dump major prospects into him AND pay him a large 4-5 yr contract? If that was the prudent thing to do, the Yanks would do it themselves.

    I like Bourn as a potential 2013 FA if we can work out a trade with Grandy. While a Boras client, he would be great as a leadoff hitter consistently batting around 300/350. While he’s not going to hit 40 HRs like Grandy would, he can certain bridge that production. The key would be what Boras is trying to get for him.

    • Ted Nelson says:

      My guess is as a top FA OF with a prototypical skills package (leadoff/CF) Bourne gets too much money for too many years… But who knows?

  11. Jose M. Vazquez says:

    I don’t see what the turmoil about Justin Upton is all about. He is a right handed hitter in a park where the ball flies. Put him in YS and he will hit only 15-20 homers if that. I would definitely not trade the farm for him. He is no Dave Winfield or Alex Rodriguez in his prime.

    • Robinson Tilapia says:

      Possible. Sure.

    • viridiana says:

      Agree. Trading farm for Upton would be ridiculosus. Would only open holes in three or four other areas that would eventually have to be filled. No reason to trade farm for anyone in era of free agents — and veteran bargains like the Gray Panthers who’ve led Yanks this year.

      • Mr. Pink says:

        Gary Sanchez and Mason Williams can’t come soon enough. They probably won’t be regulars until 2015 which makes me sad. It’s like waiting for Montero to be promoted all over again.

        • Robinson Tilapia says:

          Burrito.

        • Mike Axisa says:

          They won’t come up and have an immediate impact anyway, few guys do. They might be regulars in 2015, but might not be impact pieces until 2017 or 2018.

          • viridiana says:

            I think Mason Williams can probably help beginning sometime in 2014. Players who offer the speed/defense combo can be valuable even as they adjust to MLB pitching. Leg hits also help on offense.

            • Robinson Tilapia says:

              Two burritos coming up!

              You’re severely underestimating that “even as they adjust to MLB pitching” part.

              • viridiana says:

                Didn’t take Jeter long. Or Trout. Or Harper. Or any number of other youngsters. Have to give them the chance, though. Point is with Mason he can still help even if he hits .250.

                • Havok9120 says:

                  Harper crashed but is considered a superstar. Jeter was and is a superstar. Trout looks to be the real deal.

                  People need to stop comparing random prospects to generational talent and saying “well, hey, look at what this guy did. This random guy we’ve only known existed for 2 years can probably do that too!” Is it possible? Sure. Is it at all likely? Heck to the no. Most of these guys bust and almost none of them are Derek Jeter, ARod, Miggy, Verlander, or Joe DiMaggio.

                  • Ted Nelson says:

                    Harper is 19. Did he crash, or did he slump, or is he adjusting to a much harder level? Overall he’s providing as much value to the Nats as Granderson is to the Yankees according to fangraphs. He’s a contributor. And he’s years younger than any of those guys will be in 2014 anyway. These guys are already older than Harper right now I believe.

                    Those are outliers, but they’re examples to disprove Mike’s equally ridiculous point. The trend is that players are unlikely to come into MLB guns blazing. That doesn’t mean an individual guy can’t or won’t contribute at an early age.

                    It was pretty obvious what viridiana was saying. Not that Williams will definitely be Trout. That he is not a random prospect and does have a chance to be a very good MLB player from an early-ish age, and that he doesn’t have to be Trout to be a solid CF.

                • RetroRob says:

                  Jeter, Trout, Harper? Those are your comparisons?

                • GT Yankee says:

                  Can’t help but see some parallels between Mason Williams and AJax. AJax had one year in AAA and Williams probably needs it too (of course after AA). But how about signing Ichiro for a 1 year deal? I might be high on his Kool Aid right now, but he’s batting over .300 as a Yankee, has been very versatile and agreeable for us. Also seems to be doing well in the clubhouse. Signing him for 1 year buys the team an extra year to find the right fit in RF instead of giving out a contract that is too long to yet another aging post 30 type. You can re-up Jones for a righthanded bat if desired. Also, I’ve seen no mention of Gardy (not Grandy) who would be one of the best defensive CFers out there. He was pretty big for us before getting hurt and will be next year.

        • jjyank says:

          Both those guys are really young. I’d rather the Yankees make sure they are properly developed in the minors instead of rushing them. If Mason or Gary were 23 and repeating AAA for the second time, I would agree with you.

    • Ted Nelson says:

      While his value is far from unlimited, you have to be pretty blind not to see why he has a lot of value.

  12. 28 this year says:

    The Yankees should at least move Granderson off CF this offseason because his defense is no longer great especially compared to Gardner and a corner outfielder is worth less than a CF so at least it does start to limit what his FA value is when the Yankees admit he’s not a CF. If they are looking to trade him, than keep him in CF for trade value but if they aren’t, they really should move him out of CF.

  13. Robinson Tilapia says:

    My opinion’s been said a few times above. While I don’t consider Granderson untouchable, I think you only look to move him now if you actually think you can improve the team by doing so. A dump for prospects because you don’t particularly like that he strikes out too much isn’t the smartest thing to do.

    Would Arizona take his shorter contract in order to have a star player to replace Upton with on a short contract, plus other pieces? Perhaps. I think Jose’s point above is certainly plausible, but the risk would be worth it there, as its certainly just as possible that he exceeds what Jose feels he would do.

    Other than that, though? Keep him for the duration of his contract and figure out the lay of the land then.

    • Ted Nelson says:

      Arizona is very unlikely to take one more expensive year of Granderson for Upton. Maybe as one of several pieces, but even then there’s the $.

  14. Captain Crunch Sabthia says:

    Just a thought. If we do decide to trade Granderson, why not trade him for a pitcher? Then sign Melky to a one- two year deal perhaps? It’s just a thought. If not i’m on board to bring in a guy like Justin Upton.

  15. Mr. Pink says:

    This would be a different story if we had signed Leonys Martin, Yeonis Cespedes,or Jorge Soler. Yanks should’ve signed at least one of those guys if they’re serious about the 2014 luxury tax. Cespedes is putting up a damn good season despite missing some time and playing in a huge ballpark, Martin is putting up monster numbers in AAA showing that he is ready for the show and Soler looks like he’s a legit prospect although he’s a few years away. I’m wondering why the Yankees throw perpetually aging, expensive teams out there every year. When do they plan on infusing some young blood into the team? They better watch out next year. With younger, rising teams like the Blue Jays, Rays, and Orioles they can be overthrown in the near future just like the Phillies were this year.

    • Robinson Tilapia says:

      I always try to make all my decisions in retrospect too. They also should have signed Aroldis Chapman and Minnie Minoso.

      I know of a half-Cuban one year-old who’s already doing a hell of a job throwing a beach ball a few feet. I can even vouch for his actual age since I watched him be born. Get it done, Cash.

      Agreed that the Yankees should have signed Jorge Soler to a 20 year-contract with player opt-outs every other week.

      • jjyank says:

        Haha. Just gotta get your boy to throw lefty, and you’re set.

        Seriously though, Soler is 19 and got a 9 year deal. That’s a hell of a commitment for a glorified prospect. I understand being wary of a relative unknown.

      • TomH says:

        Minnie Minoso! I remember with affection that he could be a pain in the ass for the Indians, the Yanks’ main rival in the 50s.

        I would be really careful about Upton. This lousy year could mean (a) injury of some kind, (b) clubhouse problems, (c) that the fraternity of pitchers, catchers, and scouts have him figured out, or (d) whatever….

        • Robinson Tilapia says:

          Now matter how old/young you are, you tend to get a solid “History of Cubans in the majors” lesson from your old Cuban uncles.

          Cashman should have signed Cookie Rojas as well.

    • GAyankee says:

      Hindsight is 20/20 lots of teams wish they may have anted up and signed those guys but it’s very hard to predict what you are going to get from a player like that. Soler is very young and hasn’t he been out of baseball for a while?? Cespedes YouTube vid alone made me gun shy.

      The Yankees operate in the now 99% of the time so they have to make choices very carefully. The performance of older/established and more expensive guys is easier to predict than taking a flyer on a prospect. Every now and then they make a bold move – see Montero for Pineda. But most of the time that is not business as usual for the Yankees.

    • 28 this year says:

      They are serious about the 2014 thing and they probably look at it like hey, Cespedes is a risk adn if he turns out to suck, now we are down to 180 million dollars to fill out a roster. I think the Yankees want more certainty for that kind of price. Cespedes may be great this year but who knows what will happen going forward. Wait till the league adjusts, hitters have a hard time their second year.

  16. Let's go says:

    No 5 year contracts, Grandy , swish will get that from someone, hopefully not the yanks.
    I’m not under the Hamilton ether, he’s a mental and physical time bomb .
    What do they do? They’ll sign Ichiro to a year, and they’ll have a crap OF for next two tears

    • Robinson Tilapia says:

      I think we need to let go of the “mental time bomb” part a bit, although I agree with you that I don’t see him holding up physically.

      People in recovery have their relapses, and they have their ups and downs. They also can be very serious about their continued rehab. Part of rehab is relapse. It happens. It doesn’t make Josh Hamilton a “mental time bomb” that we know about his struggles.

      I will also admit that I often dream about getting paid as a Dr. Drew type “expert” on talk shows. What a cushy gig that is.

    • RBC says:

      I’d love from Hamilton to be a Yankee, but I don’t think it’ll be good for him. The pressure of playing in this city is a relapse waiting to happen. Also he’s going to want an 8-10 year deal and that’s the last thing the Yanks need. Josh should stay in Texas.

    • Ted Nelson says:

      Agree that they shouldn’t overpay those guys into their decline years. However, there are alternatives to a crap OF.

    • RetroRob says:

      Do we want the Yankees to be contenders, or do we want them to have cost-effective, crap OFers? It’s not like it’s going to be easy to replace Swisher and Granderson. That’s why they are both going to make a lot of money.

      • Ted Nelson says:

        That’s a false trade off. It won’t be easy, but it also won’t be ridiculously difficult. And that is why Cashman makes so much money.

  17. Mick taylor says:

    Hamiton would hit 60 home runs if he played for yanks. You could sign him if you let swisher go, trade granderson, let Martin go, sign ichiro for one year and put Gardner in center.

  18. Neil says:

    I would trade Granderson for a top prospect package. Move Gardner to CF, sign Hunter Pence to play LF, and resign Ichiro to play RF. Re-sign Swisher to DH and spot time in the OF/1B as needed. Sign Martin for a 1-yr cheap money deal. Then sign Cano to an extension.

    Lineup:
    Ichiro
    Jeter
    Cano
    Rodriguez
    Texiera
    Swisher
    Pence
    Garder
    Martin

    Bench:
    Cerville
    Nunez
    Jones
    Chavez

    Keep the AAA Pipeline Stashed: Romine, Adams, and at least one top positional player prospect from Granderson trade

    • GAyankee says:

      How do you get a top prospect unless you do a sign and trade or he is aware of a pending trade and has super-top secret negotiations with said team?

      Otherwise the trade partner has zero incentive to send back a top prospect without being certain CG isn’t a rental.

      • Neil says:

        You pick up his option. Then you trade him. Then he signs as extension with his new team. It’s not uncommon for all-star players with one year left to be traded and then sign and extension with their new team.

        • Ted Nelson says:

          You can probably get a top prospect for Granderson, but his trade value isn’t extremely high. He’s a solid hitting LF this season with only one year on his deal that’s sort of medium priced.

    • Robinson Tilapia says:

      You’re going to sign James Carville for the bench? The Ragin Cajun!

    • Bunt Gardner says:

      How do you sign Hunter Pence in 2013?

  19. genteme says:

    If we want to be competitive in this division, then we shouldn’t trade Grandy, and we should sign Nick as well. Our farm suck this year, though there were good prospects like Willaims, Austin, Sanchez, Slade, but they still far away from being good major leaguer. I would like to let go of Nick and get the payroll under 189M, but unfortunately, we didn’t had good farm to support it. The last good ML outfielder we produced was Brett Gardner(A-Jax never played ML games with us). The last powerful hitter who came from our farm was Cano, since then, nearly zero.(Montero was impressive last year, but he hit 264/305/398 this year so far.)

    • RetroRob says:

      The farm system did produce both A-Jax and Montero. Both, however, are an example that development continues in the majors. When and if Sanchez and Williams and Austin arrive (they probably never will), they also most likely will take a few years before they reach peak performance.

  20. Ted Nelson says:

    I’m really a fan of going out and finding/developing the next Granderson and Swisher rather than overpaying either of the originals through their decline years. There is certainly risk you don’t find the right guy, but there’s also a ton of risk in locking those guys up into their late 30s (depending on market price of course). The Yankees can eat one unproductive spot for a year / fill it with a semi-productive player like Jones, Ibanez, Ichiro. The OF pipeline is looking pretty solid with just a one or two year gap, which could be filled with a stop gap or eliminated with a trade.

    • mike says:

      Iagree with most of the statement, especially seeing how with the changes around ML front offices there are a bunch of veterans every spring who can do a passable job filing in for a season- so long as they aren’t over-exposed or asked to do too much.

      • Ted Nelson says:

        Yeah. Between the bargain bin vets, the young guys who have been given up on (Rasmus or Snider both dealt for a reliever or two), and just regular fair value trades (like Granderson) OF are quite abundant. I guess you could debate it, but prime FAs seem like the least efficient way to acquire OFs to me.

    • viridiana says:

      Good post, Ted Nelson!

  21. Joe says:

    I’m sorry to tell people, but people are off base if they think homeruns are better than a hitter with average power and a high average. Let me give you a perfect example why the homerun is overrated as hell. Granderson has 32 homeruns to go along with 70 RBIS. Adrian Gonzalez has 14 homeruns and 82 RBIS. Now you tell me who’s better, Granderson who is on pace for 40 homers or Gonzalez who is on pace for 19 homers? You would probably take Gonzalez, because why would you want a hitter that hits for more power when you got a guy who’s lower homerun hitting approach is getting it done better as far as driving in runs goes? Forget about where a guy bats. That don’t make a difference. The approach to hitting is what makes the difference to which player is better at driving in runs. And let’s face it Gonzalez better excels at driving in a run with a single or double that’s why he drives in more runs than Granderson, because he can drive in runs much more often using singles or doubles as opposed to homeruns which happen less often.

    I know homeruns to people look interesting, but that doesn’t make it more beneficial to the team. I would trade Granderson to try to get young center fielder who can be a version of this year’s Adrian Gonzalez. And let’s face it, by people’s criteria Gonzalez wouldn’t even be considered a superstar because he doesn’t hit for a lot of power which I find silly, because I would take a hitter like him over 7 of the 9 hitters in the Yankees lineup.

    • Ted Nelson says:

      It’s more complicated than either/or. It’s a balance between several ways a player can provide value. There are measures besides just HRs and BA that try to measure offensive value.

      Interestingly enough, wOBA has both AGon and Granderson at exactly a .353 mark this season.

      • Joe says:

        But that’s the thing Adrian Gonzalez and Granderson aren’t getting paid to be OBA guys. They are getting paid to be run producers. The Yankees didn’t bring in Granderson to be an OBA guy. Maybe guys like Gardner and Jeter OBA is valuable for their role, because they are not guys to be called upon to be run producers and they are not getting paid to be run producers. They are called upon to be top of the order type players who set it up for the middle of the order type guys. Granderson may be 2nd in the order most games, but typically a guy who hits 40 homers isn’t a 2 hitter even if he does have speed. Your 1 and 2 hitter should be your best contact hitters who get on base, not guys who strike out a lot.

        • Ted Nelson says:

          wOBA is not a measure of OBP. It’s a measure of overall offensive production. Check out fangraphs.com for more.

          My point is that a lot of very smart people have put a whole lot of thought into this, and then tried to test their hypotheses. You might want to read what they have to say. You might end up disagreeing. You don’t seem to even be aware of what they’re saying, though.

          Offensive production produces runs, by the way. It’s not an either/or thing. You don’t either get on base or produce runs. You produce runs by getting on base, with XBHs generally producing more runs than other outcomes, all else equal. All else is rarely equal, so you have to try to normalize the contributions of different players across several forms of production to compare them. How much is a SB worth compared to a double compared to a walk? Tough to say.

        • themgmt says:

          I don’t think you understand how this works.

  22. Robert says:

    Come the playoffs the home run hitters will be exposed,2014 brings Mason Williams,Slade,Austin and you can throw in ZMONT,Melky Mesa as well Thats 5 young potential starters to the Yankee outfield. If two make it I will celebrate!!!

    • Joe says:

      Now you know better Robert that the Yankees will be trading all of those guys. They are not main stays here. Even if they are your looking at least until 2020 before they see everyday playing time on a major league field in Yankees stadium for a long time. Hank would die in his grave before he would put guys like this on his team?

      • The Tenth Inning Stretch says:

        Actually at some point I think you’ll probably see three or so of those five reach the majors in pinstripes. With the $189 mil austerity budget, promoting youngsters who could be everyday players becomes essential.

    • Bunt Gardner says:

      Because no one ever hits HRs in the playoffs….

  23. Joel says:

    Mike, it’s “palatable”, not “palpable”.

  24. Greg C says:

    I’m confused. Let Granderson walk because “He’s a bit younger, I think he’s a better bet to remain productive going forward, and I think the contract will be more palatable.”?

  25. LiterallyFigurative says:

    When considering what the Mets got for half a season of Carlos Beltran last July (Zack Wheeler), it’s fair to assume the Yanks could get that level prospect + maybe a little more for Granderson if traded this offseason.

    Ted made an interesting point earlier about trying to find ANOTHER Granderson and Swisher rather than just signing the originals.

    Remember, Cashman (ninja) got Granderson who was on his way to being a platoon player, and Swisher, who was having a terrible season with Chicago. It may not be likely, but I’m sure there are low risk, down-year possibilities throughout baseball that Cashman can take a chance on. Maybe you just sign one of the two and try to find a cheap, risky replacement for the other.

  26. CC Is Not An Ace says:

    It would be stupid to trade Granderson.

  27. Favrest says:

    I’d sign Hamilton. What the hell do we care if he makes a ton of money? Beer is still $12, so f’n spend!

    • Ted Nelson says:

      We care because using that money on him might mean not using it elsewhere in more productive ways. So it might mean more losing and less winning.

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