A-Rod: “I walked out and will not participate any further in this farce.”

What Went Right: Joe Girardi
Wednesday Night Open Thread

Every day during Alex Rodriguez‘s arbitration hearing, news outlets have placed reporters outside the building. Ben and I frequently crack jokes about this absolutely pointless assignment. No one is divulging testimonies. Their only purpose is to sit there and wait for something to happen. Today, their efforts paid off. Something happened.

Minutes ago Rodriguez issued a statement — after storming out of the room — which I picked up from the Daily News Sports I-Team Twitter feed. It reads:

“I am disgusted with this abusive process designed to ensure that the player fails. I have sat through 10 days of testimony by felons and liars, sitting quietly through every minute, trying to respect the league and the process. This morning, after Bud Selig refused to come in and testify about his rationale for the unprecedented and totally baseless punishment he hit me with, the arbitrator selected by MLB and the Players Association refused to order Selig to come in and face me. The absurdity and injustice just became too much. I walked out and will not participate any further in this farce.”

According to Wallace Matthews, A-Rod “slammed his hand on the table and told [MLB COO] Rob Manfred he’s ‘full of shit'” on the way out. This is the height of entertainment.

As with every statement from both sides in this case, there is more it than what A-Rod portrays. Given Selig’s heavy hand in this, he absolutely should come in and justify his decision. I can understand why anyone would get upset in that situation.

But let’s not simply assume that Alex’s intentions are pure here. Perhaps this is a ploy to avoid testifying himself. Perhaps his legal team sees the writing on the wall, knows that he’s going to be suspended, and will instead prepare for a larger fight in federal court.

For the moment, I’ll say hats off to A-Rod for calling out Selig. It’s pretty clear — to me, at least, from the evidence we’ve seen publicly — that Selig does indeed have a vendetta against Alex. If the man wants to levy such a heavy punishment and then refuses to justify it, then how can an arbitrator rule that it’s appropriate? Again, just my input on this. I’m sure opinions on this will come down from every possible angle.

Update by Mike (5pm ET): A-Rod just made a live in-studio appearance on Mike Francesa’s show to discuss today’s events and the arbitration hearing in general. A partial video is above and the full audio is right here. I can not recommend it enough. It’s amazing. Among the major points:

  • A-Rod flatly denied all PED allegations stemming from Anthony Bosch and Biogenesis. Francesa asked him directly and the answer was a clear denial, no wiggle room. That’s all on the record. Alex also declined trying to interfere with the investigation.
  • A-Rod also said this is personal for Selig, who is retiring after next season and wants “my head on a mantle on the way out.” He also said this is about the money, that MLB wouldn’t have it in for him like this if his contract was so big. I think he’s right, this whole mess doesn’t happen if the league didn’t go for the kill with a 211-game ban.
  • It’s unclear if A-Rod will testify as scheduled on Friday. It’s basically a “if Selig doesn’t testify, I don’t testify” situation. He did hedge a bit by saying he’ll talk things over with his lawyers once he calms down.
  • Oh, and by the way, Alex is angry at the Yankees. He made that clear. He also said he has an obligation and will play third base for them when the time comes.

Like I said, I can’t recommend the interview enough. Make sure you watch the video. I thought Francesa killed it with his questions and A-Rod scorched every last bit of Earth. Such great theatre.

What Went Right: Joe Girardi
Wednesday Night Open Thread
  • Massapequa Parking

    Hate or appreciate A-Rod, he has been denied the basic principle on which our law and the CBA is based — due process.

    • Dan

      How was he denied due process? He has an evidentiary hearing before a neutral arbitrator, due process requires no more.

      As far as Selig goes, I bet A-Rod’s team tried to get him to come in, Selig then signed an affidavit that said Manfred did the investigation, and he had no involvement (totally plausible), Manfred backed him up saying that Selig wasn’t involved, there was zero evidence to the contrary, so the arbitrator said that he didn’t have to come in.

      I imagine the arbitrator is pretty tired of team A-Rod’s conspiracy theories after Levine came in yesterday and testified for less than an hour–I’d put good money that he came in to testify about some conspiracy theory from Alex’s team about the Yanks’ involvement to try to get him suspended because of the luxury tax. Levine probably offered no testimony to show there was any validity to the theory, and was allowed to leave. He would have been there for a significantly longer period of time if there was any shred of evidence to make it plausible.

      So, no he’s not being denied due process.

      • deadrody

        Hey, here’s a suggestion… Just make up your own story about the whole thing. Why not ? You make enough assumptions in 2 sentences to have already written a fine bit of fiction.

        I bet… I imagine… could be… yeah, THAT’s the ticket

        • Dan

          You’re right, they’re my best guesses. But my best guesses are way more plausible than the notion that the neutral arbitrator who was appointed by MLB and MLBPA is out to get A-Rod and have a biased hearing. Common sense trumps conspiracy.

          • BamBamMusings

            Makes more sense than the old’ Baseball and the Yankees are out to get ARod’!

          • Stan the Man

            The basic issue is why would Bud Selig not testify? He has had no problem publicly speaking about this topic but now MLB is hiding him. If you are fighting for something and believe you are innocent of the accusations then you would probably be pretty pissed.

            MLB by no measure has conducted themselves appropriately in this mess and Selig should have been made to testify.

            • Joel

              Because it’s not about Bud Selig. A-Rod and his lawyers want to make theater of this by pretending it’s a personal vendetta; Bud vs. Alex, but they’re not up against Bud Selig. They’re up against the evidence. Whether Bud Selig testifies or not is irrelevant if the evidence is there. A-Rod and his lawyers are attempting to re-frame and obfuscate the issues, mainly in the court of public opinion.

              If the evidence is there, and the non-partisan arbitrator (picked both by MLB AND the MLBPA) concludes from the evidence that A-Rod’s suspension should be upheld, based on the evidence, that’s that. If the arbitrator rules the evidence isn’t strong enough to warrant the suspension, he or she can lower or remove it. Either way, Bud Selig is irrelevant in the process. It doesn’t matter what he thinks or says, unless he possesses different/specific information that is relevant to the case. Even in that event (and there’s no reason to suppose that’s true), all he’d have to do is submit some kind of affidavit.

              A-Rod isn’t a lawyer and does not, apparently, understand how such hearings work. He wants Selig to “say jt to his face”, but that has absolutely nothing to do with the process, and it doesn’t affect the evidence. Selig acted within the parameters of his office, when apparently faced with evidence of Alex’s cheating. The hearing examines the evidence, there is a ruling based on that, and that’s that. No Bud vs. Alex in a cage match. No shouting. Nothing decided by he said/he said. Evidence. Proof. End of story.

              • BamBamMusings

                ARod is the biggest farce in all of this!

      • Havok9120

        The investigation isn’t the only thing being discussed in the hearings. It’s also about how ARod is getting a punishment completely beyond the scope of every rule, joint agreement, and precedent in the sport.

        An affidavit would have to be pretty impressive to cover all of that to everyone’s satisfaction. Unless it basically said: “I’m a figurehead with no involvement in any non-ceremonial process. The powers of my office have been wholly delegated to my subordinates and I am never consulted about any meaningful decision or event in Major League Baseball.”

        • Need Pitching & Hitting

          Seems to me the relevant part of the hearing is what they are alleging ARod actually did, trying to prove what ARod actually did, and whether what they can prove ARod did warrants the length of suspension he actually got.
          I’m not sure Bud Selig can really add anything to any of those aspects, especially beyond what others who are going to testify can add.
          And the punishment would necessarily have to be unprecedented, because the allegations against ARod are unprecedented.

        • Dan

          Via Ken Davidoff: “MLB contended Selig shouldn’t have to testify since Manfred already testified and explained MLB’s thinking behind the suspension. That argument seems to have persuaded Horowitz.”


          Different from what I thought, but still a similar idea (e.g. Selig would offer nothing new to the process, so he shouldn’t have to come in).

          • Havok9120

            Between what you and NPH are saying, I guess that works. I still disagree with it both on principle and in a tactical sense. If I’m MLB I want this done so above the board, so devoid of any irregularities, that no legal proceeding can ever really get off the ground.

            • Mike HC

              Except that MLB didn’t do things “above the board” and are just as shady liars as ARod when when it comes to PED’s. They can’t all of sudden be transparent in these proceedings. If MLB just stayed within a reasonable punishment for ARod none of this shit would be happening. But everyone is probably a lawyer in MLB, and they thought the idea of suspending him above and beyond and getting into an acrimonious, prolonged legal battle would favor them rather than ARod.

      • Massapequa Parking

        Denied due process in a random 211-game suspension. Now MLB is determining who may or may not testify = NOT due process.
        You may not like witch-hunt and it may not suit this perfectly but he is being railroaded, guilty or not.

        • http://www.penuel-law.com/ Cuso


          It’s clear you have some training (a la a first-year law student), buy your understanding of due process is wildly incomplete.

        • Dan

          MLB isn’t deciding who won’t testify, the neutral arbitrater decided.

          • Stan the Man

            An arbitrator can be wrong whether he is neutral or not.

    • Mister D

      How has he been denied due process? Like it or not, the CBA gives the commissioner wide latitude in handing down suspensions. Given the fact that the suspension was for things beyond using PED’s, there was no reason for Selig to stick to the 50 game limit. A-Rod didn’t like the ruling, and filed an appeal, as provided for by the CBA, and was allowed to continue playing and collecting his salary. If Selig is out of order by refusing to testify in person, ARod should have used that against him, rather than have a tantrum.

      • Stan the Man

        I believe by having the tantrum he is using it against him. How else would AROD use it against by not making a scene about it? I am sure his lawyers will tie it to a closing argument or whatever they do in these proceedings.

        End of the day Selig and Manfred are massive scumbags just like AROD.

        • Mister D

          You use the fact that he wouldn’t appear against him. You don’t become a whiny bitch and curse those who are sitting in judgement. That won’t help him.

    • http://www.penuel-law.com/ Cuso

      He has not been denied due process. An arbitrator’s hearing has no relevance to one’s right to due process.

    • trr

      @Massapequa Parking – that is completely untrue!

  • ggooglyboogly

    Good for A-Rod

    • trr

      …and bad for us

  • Toki

    Bud was never going to testify…Arod and his lawyers knew this. Then he suddenly gets pissed and storm out over something you knew wasn’t going to happen is pretty damning in an arbitrator’s eyes.

    • Havok9120

      They did not know that the arbitrator would take Selig’s side. And there’s no reason to believe ARod was being wholly rational on the issue. I can certainly see him saying “No, once the arbitrator sees what they’re doing for himself, he’ll want to hear what Selig says too.”

      • RC

        They should’ve known that the arbitrator would side with Selig. Selig was the one that hired the arbitrator.

        • Havok9120

          It really doesn’t work that way.

        • Need Pitching & Hitting

          Player’s association has to agree.
          And either side can subsequently fire the arbitrator.

        • MannyGeee

          Someone’s been watching too much WWE, chief.

  • MannyGeee


  • HateMclouth (formerly I’mVernon)

    For a second I thought this was a joke. This is so bizarre.

    What annoys me the most though is that this is going to be all over the news and the reports of MLB knowingly buying evidence and obstructing the investigation in Florida will be completely forgotten. At least in the average fan’s mind.

    I’m not A-Rod’s biggest fan but I sure hope he wins and I sure hope MLB and Selig are held accountable.

    Now, where’s my popcorn..

    • I’m a looser baby so why don’t you kill me?

      Oh I don’t think any of those other facts are going away… Team ARod won’t allow it!

  • John S.

    There’s no way this isn’t made into a movie. Hollywood doesn’t even need to add any extra drama to this. I wonder who will play A-Rod?

    • I’m One

      Some female body-builder … :-)

      • Chris In Maine


    • MannyGeee

      Mcconaughey has the range. Selig played by Jeffey Tambor, and Jonah Hill as Victor Conte, because STEROIDZ!!!

      Obviously Cameron Diaz and Kate Hudson played by themselves.

    • Stan the Man

      AROD will play AROD and the Levine will fork over $30 million for the movie rights.

  • Preston

    More and more I’m finding it hard to see more than a 50 game suspension out of this.

    • Need Pitching & Hitting

      Calling a decision of the person deciding his fate a farce probably isn’t going to help his cause.

      • mt

        Further reason to believe that he is suing after arbitrator rules (still wondering if he will sue if games reduced to 50; anything over 50 I believe he definitely is suing.)

        Arod is not a felon but he certainly has proven to be a liar so he would fit right in with the winesses that have been called so far.

        • Turriddu

          If he gets anything less than 100 games it’s hard to believe AROD would want to go to through that headache. Successfully appealing a binding arb decision would require him to show that arbitrator was knowingly biased and involved in the conspiracy. This would be next to impossible.

  • Kramerica Industries

    There are some .gifs out there that are entirely appropriate for this development.

  • chrisF

    You cannot make this stuff up!

    Federal Court, here we come…

  • Flynn

    Fuck Arod. I find it impossible to feel any empathy for a dude whose career is built on a foundation of cheating.

    • MannyGeee

      So Bud Selig is the Moral Compass here? Ignoring the evidence of PED Abuse for decades and now making an example of one guy while tampering with evidence so he can save face? That’s the good guy here??

      Sure dude

      • Need Pitching & Hitting

        Who says there has to be a good guy in this?

        • I’m One

          Yup, that’s the way I see it. They’re all guilty in this, but since Bud is in charge of MLB, it’s likely he comes out looking the best. Not saying that’s the way it should be, but that’s what I expect of this.

          • I’m a looser baby so why don’t you kill me?

            I don’t. I think he will be remembered as the self serving hypocrite as outlined by MannyGeee’s comment above. That’s certainly how I’ll remember him, regardless of how this plays out.

        • RC

          As much as I think A-Rod is guilty, MLB is trying to portray itself as the good guy. That’s the problem that everyone has with this entire situation.

          • mitch

            Exactly. Selig is trying to make himself look like the guy who cleaned up the steroid era. In reality, he’s the face of the era…more than Bonds, Clemens, Manny, Arod, etc

            • MannyGeee


            • Jim Is A (Bored) Peckerhead

              Can this be the new header of RAB? Please?

              This so hard.

            • I’m a looser baby so why don’t you kill me?


            • I’m a looser baby so why don’t you kill me?

              Totally agree though I think McGuire’s acne scarred mess of a face is sort of the face of the era!

          • Fin

            How is MLB trying to portray itself as the “good guy”? I really don’t understand, explain it to me. From where I sit, MLB is trying to enforce the rules agreed upon by collective bargaining. Arod broke the rules and either he declined to take a deal opening him self up to harsher consequences or MLB never offered a deal feeling his actions were significantly more aggregious than that of other offenders, and thus deserving a stiffer penalty.

            MLB did not unilaterally kick Arod out of baseball as was Selig’s right under the collective agreement. Arod is having his day in court and if MLB over stepped its bounds it will come out. Arod is not alone in his fight. He has a mutually agreed upon arbitrator, the players association and probably the highest paid attorney on the planet protecting his intersts.

            No where do I see MLB looking like a “good guy” but an organization protecting the rules of the game as agreed upon through collective bargaining. I don’t see how, if Arod gets suspended it suddenly makes them a good guy, and washes away the past. Nor do I see Arod’s status in the game changing even if he gets no suspension, his reputation as a cheater is cemented through past actions.

            This case is about this case and what has happened in MLB since banned substances were introduced into the game, not a platform for what came before.

    • chrisF

      He deserves due process like any person. I’m not a fan of his either, but if Selig is allowed to give him the biggest non-lifetime suspension in the history of the sport and then NOT have to at least explain himself, then this process is a joke.

      • Laz

        I agree.
        What exactly is his rationale for this punishment which was so far and away more severe than the cba stated, and what the other players got.

        Braun got 65 games, and Arod got 211, for seemingly the same violation. Melky had tried to hide the evidence too and wasn’t hit with any additional games.

        • Need Pitching & Hitting

          I’m not sure the Braun and ARod violations are seemingly the same.
          And Melky didn’t really try to hide evidence. He just fabricated the cover story.
          I agree Melky probably should have been subject to some additional time because of his actions, but it’s really a different situation.
          The allegations against ARod were that he tried to obstruct and hinder the investigation before suspensions were decided (whether he actually did that or not, I don’t know).
          That, to me, is quite different than offering up or fabricating cover stories after the fact.
          I could definitely see where ARod’s actions (if true) would be dealt with much more severely.
          It’s also possible there is more to the ARod allegations than what is publicly known.
          I doubt the 211 game suspension stands, but I wouldn’t be at all surprised if he ends up with considerably more than 50 games.

          • I’m One

            It’s also possible there is more to the ARod allegations than what is publicly known.

            That seems to be what MLB is saying by their actions. No idea whether or not that’s true and if what he suposedly did warrants the extra 146 games above what Braun got.

            • Chris In Maine

              I think they have video of A-Rod getting his “vitamins” via injection

              • Munson

                In a just cause arbitration, MLB has the burden of proving the players guilt and has to show that its penalty is appropriate. How MLB does that is up to them. It’s the arbitrators role to decide whether MLB met their burden.

                The job of ARods lawyers is to poke holes in MLB’s evidence and to argue that the penalty is excessive. ARod calling Selig as a witness serves no purpose except to cause a distraction. Selig is not the subject of this proceeding. He can be the biggest dirt bag in the world, hate ARods guts, want to create a legacy for himself, etc etc etc. None of that will have any bearing if MLB can prove that ARod is guilty and persuade the arbitrator that the penalty is appropriate.

            • Laz

              And this is what is wrong. Selig should have to explain the basis for the 211.

              • Need Pitching & Hitting

                That’s what the entire hearing is about – trying to prove what ARod allegedly did and justify that 211 games is the appropriate punishment.. Part of the process is MLB has to justify the length of the suspension. It’s not like that aspect is going unfulfilled if Selig doesn’t testify. It’s required.
                I’m not sure how Selig could add anything to that that Manfred or other MLB representatives couldn’t (and likely already have) readily explain.

        • jim p

          MLB claims to have electronic evidence – emails and phone calls — which shows A-Rod was juicing in 2009, 2010, 2011. Further that he steered other players to get their juice. Further that he bought evidence (and this is before MLB bought evidence, because they found out A-Rod was) to impede MLB’s investigation.

          Whatever evidence they did have was enough for 12 players to say ‘ok, no argument from me, suspend me.’

          Whatever they’ve leaked about their evidence on A-Rod, they either have it or they don’t, and that’s what this hearing is about.

          What did Braun or Melky do which was comparable? Have they got Melky for 3 years of ‘roid use?

          Moreover, ARod has placed himself among the all-time leaders in a number of important categories. He made himself one of the most important figures in the game. But if he got there because of juice, … why wouldn’t he be a bigger target? If he did all as charged, and there’s proof of it, why should he get only 50 games?

          He’s been actively subverting the integrity of the sport for years, if the charges are true. In that case 211 games is going easy on him, imo.

          • Jim Is A (Bored) Peckerhead

            The hearing is not about whether they have evidence to suspend him. If they’d offered the 50 games that everyone else has got, there would be no drama. They’re trying to go above and beyond here.

            ” If he did all as charged, and there’s proof of it, why should he get only 50 games? ”

            Seriously? Is he not a member of the players union now? Does he have different, lesser rights than those of his fellow players?

            • jim p

              So Braun cheats one year, but there’s proof (says MLB, which is being presented at the hearing) A-Rod cheated for 3; helped other players to cheat; obstructed an investigation; and leaked the names of other players from evidence he bought to Yahoo Sports… and those are the same things, what Braun did and what A-Rod did? Deserving the same penalties?

              • Mr. Roth

                Braun won an MVP, failed a drug test, got suspended, made up lies about the collector, ruined the collector’s career, successfully appealed his suspension, got caught cheating again, admitted he lied to beat the previous suspension, and then got a sweet 65 game suspension (70% less than A-Rod) that he was able to serve while he was on the DL and his team was way out of playoff contention.

          • Stan the Man

            Are we to believe that any of the 13+ players that have been handed down punishments in this case weren’t using PED’s for multiple yrs? MLB only went after one player for multiple yrs of use here. They could have run investigations on all players to see how extensive their use was and how they evaded testing, but they only did this with one person.

            • I’m a looser baby so why don’t you kill me?

              Exactly. How anyone can fail to see the selective approach of MLB (Selig) here is baffling.

              • Need Pitching & Hitting

                Without knowing exactly how much of the suspension was for which activity, and without knowing all of the details of the allegations, and without knowing the extent of the evidence that they had against ARod vs. what they had against other players, I’m not sure how anyone can determine if it’s selective or not.

              • Fin

                lol are you a troll? You defend Arod like you’re Arod himself. Clearly its the opinion of MLB that his actions were far more serious than the other players. Now they have to prove it, and if they are wrong or cant prove it, Arods suspension will be significantly decreased.

                You Arod defenders would have a strong case if Selig had given Arod a lifetime ban but that hasn’t happened. He is getting to defend himself and force MLB to lay its cards on the table to impartial, mutually agreed upon arbitrator.

                It was MLB’s opinion that through his actions, Arod deserved a much more serious punishment then the others involved. They levied that punishment and now the process will decide if they were right or not. Selig and MLB are not the judge, jury and executioner so to speak.

              • Lets go Yankees

                Who cares. He’s a liar, a cheat, and the worst Yankee to ever put on a uniform. As a Yankee fan, I want nothing more than to never see him in pinstripes again!

            • Need Pitching & Hitting

              I’m not sure the added suspension time was actually for the multiple years of use.
              It doesn’t seem multiple years would justify an additional suspension under the terms of the JDA. They would all be wrapped up under the first use, 50-game ban.
              My guess (and it is just a guess) is that he got 50 games for the PED use, and essentially a 1-year ban (1 game short) for the other stuff – obstruction, possibly getting other players involved, etc.

      • Fin

        “He deserves due process like any person. I’m not a fan of his either, but if Selig is allowed to give him the biggest non-lifetime suspension in the history of the sport and then NOT have to at least explain himself, then this process is a joke.”

        It may be a joke in your opinion but not in the players as they agreed to the process.

    • I’m a looser baby so why don’t you kill me?

      You’re delusional.

  • Laz

    I agree with Arod.
    I can completely understand mlb trying to hand down a punishment to him, but the 211 game ban was absurd. It didn’t fit the punishments that mlb, the owners, and the mlbpa had agreed to in the cba. It also didn’t align with the other punishments handed down to the other players. I hope mlb is put in their place, you can’t just suspend one player more because you don’t like them.

    • Fin

      So Laz, you think that is the evidence that MLB is going into Arbitration with…We don’t like Arod and want to suspend him for 211 games?

      They feel his actions were much more serious than the first time substance abuse, and who knows what Articles in the CBA they are using for all the different rules he is accused of breaking. People seem to be ignoring the fact that Arod appears to being accused of much more than just taking steroids.

  • Kyung

    From a procedural viewpoint, it would be ludicrous to force Selig to testify. That would be like forcing a trial judge to testify before an appeals court and justify his/her decision. MLB is laying out in detail the evidence backing up Selig’s decision. It is up to Arod and his army of lawyers to refute that evidence. Old lawyer’s saying: If you have the evidence, pound on the evidence. If you don’t, pound on the table.

    • deadrody

      Mmmm… no. MLB is one party to this hearing. Period. Who runs MLB again ?

      Right, Bud Selig. Comparing him to a trial judge is completely wrong.

      • Havok9120

        I get what he’s saying to an extent. When someone sue’s a state government and names the governor (or the mayor of a town, etc) and tries to call them in to testify, it’s usually nonsense.

        In this case though, the things done were so unprecedented and/or sketchy as to make it pretty unreasonable to believe that Selig had absolutely no knowledge or involvement in the process. At least decided the punishment would have almost required some input from him.

      • mt

        Is a better comparison the IRS Commissioner (or even the President of the United States) being required to testify in court in a lawsuit against you by IRS for your failure to pay your taxes? Why is that top person required to testify? (assuming the IRS action is explained by other subordinates; if not sufficiently explained, that is IRS fault (MLB in Arod example) and IRS should lose.)

        I like what someone said before: if evidence is in your favor, pound the evidence; if not, pound the table.

        • Kevin

          I think the comparison is way off. The president/IRS Commissioner has almost no contact with your average tax evader. Selig was definitely intimately involved in the details of this, at every stage. To pretend he wasn’t would be ludicrous.

          • Need Pitching & Hitting

            I think a better comparison would be a DA bringing charges in a criminal case.
            The DA wouldn’t be called to the stand to explain why they sought certain charges or punishments. They or their representative would just have to prove it in court, using the testimony of witnesses, not their own testimony.

            • Stan the Man

              The court system is based on precedents and if a DA seeks a life sentence for a crime that doesn’t warrant it then they do have to answer for that decision at some point.

              • Need Pitching & Hitting

                Not by testifying.
                They (or their representatives) would have to argue their case before a judge.
                Isn’t that essentially exactly what MLB is doing now?

    • Laz

      How so?
      trials are about the plaintiff and a defendant.
      Arod is the defendant, and MLB would have to prove something. Isn’t a team vs player where mlb is middle ground. Steroids is something responsible by mlb.

  • Havok9120

    This is the first story in this saga I’ve actually enjoyed. This is great.

    You don’t get to run the entire investigation, and the handing down of punishment which resulted from it, under the table and then not explain your actions afterward. I’m a firm believer that “black” investigations are an integral part of any useful system of justice, but you then have to reveal the evidence uncovered (and how it was uncovered) to the person/people to whom you are responsible.

    What’s more, it’s the offseason, we’re in between baseball-related meetings, and the big rule changes have already been approved. What, exactly, is Selig doing which prevents him from attending arbitration? I understand that calling the highest people in an organization is usually just a stalling tactic meant to burn time and energy, but the Comish was directly involved in setting up this scheme of punishment. He had to be, since no one had ever been punished this way before. Come justify your actions.

    • I’m a looser baby so why don’t you kill me?

      ALL of this.

  • Chris

    Selig makes it his personal mission to get ARod out of the game and then doesn’t bother to show at the appeal hearing? As much as I dislike doing it, I agree with ARod.

  • Mark

    No way should Selig testify. While he runs MLB as CEO; he has nothing to do with the facts at hand. Even if he has some kind of vendetta against A-Rod, which is probably unlikely; it is completely irrelevant to the case against A-Rod.

    A-Rod is also not entitled to due process in a constitutional sense; since this is not a criminal case, and not a government prosecution.

    • Havok9120

      Your last bit is absolutely correct. Thing is…this is heading in that direction. I’m confused why the MLB is trying to do the least it possibly can here when it’s just going to create more irregularities to be investigated when ARod sues.

      Unless the evidence is just so damning that they effectively know the outcome of the arb hearing and any potential legal proceedings and are simply trying to conceal evidence for a trial so it can be used to greatest effect on a jury.

      • Coolerking101

        MLB isn’t doing the least it can. It already put on its whole case, including putting on testimony from the guy who is the #2 in MLB and was in charge of the investigation. Why put on Selig? MLB has nothing to gain by putting on Selig.

        A-Rod has little or no chance of success in the courts. I can say with certainty he pretty much has a 0% chance of overturning the arbitrator’s decision.

        A-Rod’s arguments are a joke. They are an excuse for him to avoid testifying. This was clearly planned ahead of time. Note that his press release made it out 20 minutes after this went down. Very convenient. Also, it’s simply a joke that this guy rips the arbitrator for not having Selig testify, but he himself refuses to testify.

    • Stan the Man

      Selig has been involved in this case from day one and literally ordered the investigation to take place, so his role and his knowledge of the “evidence” is far from irrelevant here. Also, the CBA prohibits many of the things MLB actually did during their investigation including announcing the suspension before the appeals process. So either you slice it MLB did a lot wrong here.

      • Need Pitching & Hitting

        His knowledge of the evidence is extremely irrelevant.
        The hearing is about ARod’s suspension and whether it is justified.
        Things relevant to that would be:
        1)Proof of the allegations against ARod – which Selig could not provide as he wasn’t witness to anything.
        2)Whether the allegations (if proven) warrant the length of suspension to be given. That would be be based on the JDA, CBA, and the severity of the allegations. Selig could testify on that, but so could any other representative of MLB. It would seem Selig couldn’t provide any testimony different than what could be provided by Manfred or others, which would basically make his testimony a redundant waste of time. It’s really no surprise the Arbitrator deemed it unnecessary.

    • I’m a looser baby so why don’t you kill me?

      You’re delusional if you think Selig doesn’t need to testify here. Simply delusional.

      • Coolerking101

        Delusional? Why does Selig need to testify? MLB already explained themselves via their #2 man, who also happens to be the guy who was in charge of the investigation. Selig has nothing to offer, beyond that he reviewed the evidence gathered by someone else and made a decision. Wake up. This is all just an excuse for A-Rod to avoid testifying. It’s not simply a coincidence that he was “too sick” to appear in front of MLB last week (which was a requirement before he would be allowed to testify in this case).

  • Chris Z.



  • mt

    I have a question: does everyone see it as such a big injustice to Arod that Selig refused to testify and arbitrator ruled in Selig’s favor? There are other executive, highly paid MLB people there that can testify as to why MLB did what it did – why is it Selig particularly that needs to be there? So Arod can embarass him and question him about other MLB failures and missteps that are not germane to Arod’s case (like Selig’s “ignoring” the steroid era, which, even if true, is not relevant since this CBA was negotiated after that setroid era.)

    If I were Arod, I would also try to get Selig up there (embarassment factor) but assessing from a neutral perspective I am not sure why Selig should have to testify in a drug arbitration as the commissioner of a sport. As long as MLB explained why 211 games was warrnted in their view and Arod had opportuntiy to lambaste and cross examine that testimony (Manfred provided this probably) why does Selig himself particularly need to get on stand? The only way Selig should have to testify is if MLB said “we have no basis for 211 games; only Bud knows” – then Arod would be totally justified in calling for Selig.

    Anyway if this process is uch a farce now hopefully Arod will stop calling witnesses so we get arbitrator’s decsion and see what Arod does after arbitartor rules. Question is: even if Arod gets 50 games from arbitrator, will he still sue and try to get an injunction to stop 50 games? (He definitely will ue if he gets more than 50 games but wondered if he will even try to bring the whole system down over 50 games.)

    Also this is a smart move on Arod’s part – arbitrator was forced to rule something in MLB’s “favor” (even if it were warranted from a neutral perspective) so now Arod can hope to get a more lenient treatment on the games count so arbitrator is not seen as totally in MLB’s hands – brilliant. Also I totally see the angle that now focus is off Arod’s failure to testify – although I do agree that MLB’ required pre-interview for any players wanting to testify in arbitration so MLB can see whether they should punish the player even more seems overly punitive.)

    What a circus.

    • I’m a looser baby so why don’t you kill me?

      He should have to testify because he runs MLB, oversaw the investigation (in fact I would bet my life’s savings that he personally made it happen and also ensured that it got pursued to the ends of the earth, including extremely shady stuff), and decided the arbitrary penalties.

      Other than that, sure. He shouldn’t have to testify.

      • Need Pitching & Hitting

        How is any of that relevant to whether or not 1)ARod deserves to be suspended, or 2) how long the suspension should be for?

  • TWTR

    Selig may be the worst commissioner in professional sports, at least until Manfred assumes the job.

    They are only good at cannibalizing their own sport.

  • JAG

    I wish there was some way that Selig or MLB as an organization (so not impacting the Yankees payroll) could be forced to pay A-Rod’s salary.

    • mt

      This actually may happen in a convoluted way, I suppose.

      This woud be the scenario: suppose arbitrator rules 100 games or whatever and Yankees get to save on salary (and luxury tax calculation) for Arod’s salary for those games; however Arod sues MLB (I don’t think in this case he can sue Yankees for relief from arbitartor’s decision but who knows with Arod?)

      Let’s say Arod for some reason wins his case against MLB (I assume this will take years to litigate)- MLB will then have to pay damages, including lost salary I would imagine, but the key issue – I am not sure if MLB lost, MLB can in turn go back to Yankees and force Yanks to pay those damages or force Yanks to increase their 2014 luxury tax payroll by the amount of the recoveered salary because Yankees acted in good faith by not paying Arod and taking his suspended salary off their luxury tax calculation.

      Of course Arod can also just go ahead and just sue Yankees directly for conspiring with Dr. Ahmad to ruin his career (and future salaries and bonuses) and try to get damages from Yankees that way. Even in unlikely event that Arod would win, I still don’t think damages will go agaisnt 2014 payroll calculation.

      • I’m One

        If A-Rod is suspended, appeals in federal court and wins (after the season has passed), I can’t see MLB forcing the Yankees to pay back luxury tax based on the salary of a player that wasn’t allowed to play.

        I do like the way you layed this out, though.

  • Now Batting

    Due process…last I checked this matter falls within the CBA not the US Constitution.

    • Steve

      Yeah but it sounds important and moral to shriek “DUE PROCESS” whether you know what it means and where it applies or not.

    • Kevin

      True, but in general we expect organizations (like MLB) that are imbued an almost quasi governmental/public interest aura by their grant of monopoly to behave in ways that gel with our basic moral code as a society (Nation of Laws not Nation of Men, etc.)

    • Stan the Man

      I guess using Steroids between 1986 and 2003 wasn’t illegal either since MLB didn’t have any specific language against its use and distribution…you know since it wasn’t in the CBA at all.

  • http://www.twitter.com/_swarlesbarkley Mark Teixiera – Ghostbuster (formerly Drew)

    Man I am so sick of this. Please MLB/Alex, just go away.

  • Mickey Scheister

    A-Rod will play next year, he will get a 50 game suspension and Bud will continue acting like he’s done no wrong. The media will continue to paint A-Rod as a terrible person and as MLB as Robin Hood, when each party is responsible for less than savory behaviors. No one man is bigger than the sport but targeting one player isn’t the way to “clean up the sport”, it’s their way of painting that perception. Bud should be forced out of this sport before A-Rod for allowing YEARS of turning the blind eye in lieu of profit. Unfortunately the narrative fed by the mainstream media viewers and readers are inconsistent with the truth.

  • 42isNotMortal

    Yes, to me this reads as an overambitious ploy by an opportunistic Selig to distract from his prominent role in PEDs throughout his reign. I think Bud may have under-estimated what he considered an easy out in A-Rod.

    Yes, A-Rod has been publicly mocked for a few years running now prior to Biogensis unfolding, but how could Bud overlook A-Rod’s financial clout and matching ego. And anyways, how much further can A-Rod really be vilified in the public’s eye? Certainly not enough to distract from any transgressions of Selig’s.

    Suspending A-Rod for 100 games would have been close enough to Braun’s 65 and others 50 to stagnate Alex’s career and deprave any claims of injustice. The sillier this clown show becomes, the better A-Rod will come out of this. Selig looks increasingly naive of the process and perhaps presumptuous of the result. Whatever the motivation, A-Rod had already ruined his legacy, now its Selig’s turn to finish sullying his.

  • Improbable Island’s Dirty Midget Whores (formerly RRR)

    This A-Rod porn is better than real porn starring A-Rod.

    • Betty Lizard

      Legal porn is the best.

      • I’m a looser baby so why don’t you kill me?

        I’m in love.

  • steves

    Wondering out loud if Arod’s behavior in the hearing is separately sanctionable by MLB (sort of a contempt of court/process penalty) that would increase his suspension time beyond what is now on the table.

    • Jimmy

      422 game suspension!

      • I’m a looser baby so why don’t you kill me?

        I’ll see your 422 and raise you a lifetime ban!

  • Broll The American

    When one consorts with known criminals and drug dealers (“felons and liars”), one shouldn’t be surprised when those same sorts are called to testify against you. Selig has no first hand knowledge of ARod’s activities, so why should he testify to anything? He didn’t witness ARod buying these substances, the felons and liars did.

  • Pat D

    ARod added this on his way out:


  • Captain Sensible

    ARod has the money to pay trolls to post on these sites, just like he has the money to drum up phony supporters.

    Its the only way I can see ANYONE taking his side. If I lie on my resume, and then get a job, I would then be fired if it came out that I had lied about my qualifications to get the job. Everyone of us lives by that standard.

    Judge Landis’ banning of Shoeless Joe, sent a message that has protected the game since. That success, to me justifies this decision.

    It really is important to the game that he be banned, and not overtake REAL legends on the homer list like Willy Mays. 211 games feels light to me.

    • Kevin

      Obvious troll is obvious.

    • mustang

      This !!!!

      Thank you!!!!!

    • I’m a looser baby so why don’t you kill me?

      Delusional troll is delusional.

    • Kiko Jones

      Your screen name is meant to be ironic, right?

    • pat


  • Farewell Mo

    Selig is a horses ass however I’m glad to see Aroid loss his cool.

    I hope he’s really made to suffer through this process and hopefully get at least 1 year suspension at the end.

  • mustang

    So let me get this right A-Rod is mad for Selig refusing to testify while he has refused himself. He was “SICK” and unavailable to travel last week so he couldn’t meet with MLB to set-up his own testimony. Now he is acting like a kid throwing the league and the union under the bus.

    1- MLB has been bad, but after this A-Rod has managed to look worse.

    2- A-Rod’s acts today are the acts of guilty man who know he is going down and going down hard.

    3-I would be shocked if he gets anything less then 100 games.

    I been here a long time and because of that comments usually don’t shock me, but I must admit I’m taken back by some commentors (some which I hold in high regard) views on this.

    Yes, I agree MLB and Selig have been horrible in this, but anyone supporting A-Rod after this really need to take a hard second look or maybe I’m missing something.

    • mustang

      Thank you to Captain Sensible above because I totally forgot about the trolling. that explains a lot.

    • Farewell Mo

      Pretty much this x 1000.

      MLB and Selig certainly have plenty of blood on their hands but Arod is far more to blame and looks far worse than anyone else. Utimately IMO, he’s gonna end up as persona non grata along the lines of Jose Canseco.

      • JAG

        Given that Jose Canseco ended up being…completely and totally right about steroid use in baseball, I don’t know if he’s the example you really wanted to use.

    • mustang

      I think people’s judgments are being clouded by the fact that the league has never admitted to its obvious role in the steroid era and has always denied know anything about it. However this is about a player who broke a CBA rule and is trying to avoid punishment and as much as we all would like to put the league on trial for it’s past that not what this about.

      • Darren

        It’s kind of ironic that your using words that echo McGwire’s testimony. I guess if you want you can choose to look at this hearing as just a run of the mill disciplinary hearing where a player who wore the wrong piece of equipment and is fined $1,000. But you really don’t see any hypocrisy in MLB and Selig’s actions in this whole charade?

        PS- It seems like 1000 years ago when we were staying up late watching Mariners/ROyals games hoping for a miracle. :(

        • Darren

          *you’re* not your. Sorry. I don’t want Ohio Yankee fan to tell me how stupid I am for using the wrong word.

        • Need Pitching & Hitting

          There’s definitely hypocrisy and shady dealings in this on the part of MLB.
          That’s not what this hearing is about though.
          It’s about what ARod did (or didn’t) do and what the appropriate punishment for that would be.

    • I’m a looser baby so why don’t you kill me?

      Maybe you should consider that the fact that several regular commenters here, including ones you hold in high regard, view things (very) differently than you, ought to give you pause and perhaps cause you to re-examine your own views?

      Don’t confuse identifying Selig as a hypocritical self serving asshole with saying ARod isn’t guilty.

      • mustang

        “Don’t confuse identifying Selig as a hypocritical self serving asshole with saying ARod isn’t guilty.”

        I think that’s problem that people are confusing one with the other.

    • Kiko Jones

      What you’re missing is the following question:

      How does any behavior by A-Rod change what Selig has done?

      A-Rod could make a complete and utter fool of himself but that wouldn’t change Selig and MLB’s shady actions. And many who support A-Rod are actually way more anti-Selig than pro-A-Rod.

      • mustang

        And what your missing is that what does Selig’s behave have to do with what A-Rod done.

        • Kiko Jones

          As A-Rod himself says he has encountered—and I’ve also heard/read here and elsewhere—Selig’s conduct has gotten to the point where folks who despise A-Rod feel he’s being railroaded. And the fact that Selig is legacy shopping on A-Rod’s back is more than obvious.

  • Hearn


    • BronxBomber

      Nice “Animal House” reference! :-)

      • Hearn

        Bud Selig = Dean Wormer

        ARod = Flounder

  • Paul

    Selig did explain why he got 211… Multiple ped use, obstruction, witness tampering etc. he can’t reveal details and evidence because of the cba. The evidence and justification was revealed to arod, the players union and now the arbitrator. What more could they question selig about and who really cares if he likes arod. The only issue at hand is did arod use ped’s, how many times, and did he obstruct the investigation and threaten witnesses. MLB had enough evidence on all the other players that none of them even appealed. So I’m guessing mlb has a ton of evidence on arod. The rules are 50, 100, 150 and lifetime ban. So if they have evidence he used in 2010, 2011, and 2012 plus he obstructed the investigation, why is 211 so unrealistic?

    • I’m a looser baby so why don’t you kill me?

      Yes because Bud says so!

      Lulz. You’re delusional.

  • fin

    What I don’t understand about so many of these posts is that people think the media is painting MLB and/or Selig as the good guys. I’ve seen plenty of articles condemning MLB and Selig for their roles in the steroid era. Also, What MLB/Selig did prior to the CBA in which banned substance rules were put in place is totally irrelevant to the Arod case. Since people think that MLB was complicit in the steroid era (which they certainly were), that MLB then has no recourse to punish continuing abusers of the system, after the rules were changed and agreed to by both MLB and the Players association?

    Arod has been an ongoing, aggressive cheater in MLB’s eyes. Moreso, than anyone else in MLB. Therefore, they are going after him more aggressively than the others. I cant really see how anyone can have any sympathy for Arod who continued to thumb his nose at the rules of MLB basically since day 1. I don’t have any love for the organization of MLB or Selig, but I sure as shit don’t think Arod has any moral ground to stand on, or deserves any of my sympathy.

    The mistake MLB made was not replacing Selig when they “cleaned up the game”. If they had a new commish in place that didn’t actively participate in the steroid era, they would be able to take the moral high ground. That is whats wrong with MLB, they very rarely if ever do whats right.

    • mustang

      Pretty much agree and nice to see some logic in this thread.
      Thank you.

    • I’m a looser baby so why don’t you kill me?

      “The mistake MLB made was not replacing Selig when they “cleaned up the game”. If they had a new commish in place that didn’t actively participate in the steroid era, they would be able to take the moral high ground. That is whats wrong with MLB, they very rarely if ever do whats right.”

      This is why I disagree with nearly everything you said before it. Selig is the wrong guy to lead this. From optics alone it’s terrible.

      • Fin

        I cant comprehend peoples logic. Its Selig’s job to be in charge of this stuff. Whats your other option, ignore steroids until there is a new commish? You’re basically saying you don’t agree with me that Arod should be judged on the rules agreed to by MLB and the Players association because Selig is in charge.

        • Darren

          You don’t find anything wrong with having the guy who let the steroids era happen on his watch all of a sudden becoming this dick swinging sheriff? They didn’t have to ignore steroids until there’s a new commish, they could have just gotten a new commish!! Oy veys meir.

          • Fin

            I certainly do see something wrong with it from a publicity stand point, and certainly feel Selig should have been replaced when they started to clean up baseball. However, that’s not what has happened and since Selig is in charge of MLB its what we got. It doesn’t change anything about Arod. Selig didn’t kick him out of baseball, he collected evidence and sent it to an arbitrator to rule on. My guess if Selig’s hands weren’t dirty in the steroids era, he would have life time banned Arod.

  • BamBamMusings

    Anyone get the feeling Tacopina came up with this strategy back in August? He storms out suddenly, (WITH one of his lawyers at his side) but yet has a statement prepared for the media seconds later outside the courtroom.

  • Dan in Athens

    I am a former lawyer who has handled labor matters in both arbitrations and federal court. Please allow me to clear up some issues that have a patently false premise.

    1. Management and unions are allowed to set up Alternative Dispute Resolution through any Collectively Bargained Agreement. This ADR does not have to comply with the federal rules of evidence and can limit testimony, witnesses, time, documentation, discovery, etc… Also, under the FAA, you can waive your right to access to courts with the exception of extremely limited violations committed by the arbitrator or fraud in the proceedings. To quote Sham Das, the former arbitrator, “They would have to prove bias, something along those lines,” Das said. “Neither party would have much of a chance if it went to court.”

    2. Only the government can deny you “due process.” Non-governmental actors can commit breaches of contract and various torts that you can recover for (tortious interference, fraud, defamation, etc…) in terms of injunction or damages. As a matter of law, this arbitrator or MLB cannot engage in violating “due process.” Please stop typing any comments about this.

    3. It is common for a plaintiff to try to call the head of a company in a labor matter. The defense almost always moves to block this based on the nature of the evidence. The most efficient and successful defense is that another individual has already provided the evidence and it would be cumulative or an absence of personal knowledge. It is more likely than not that the objections of defense counsel are sustained in matters involving large corporations, but it is not so rare that it doesn’t happen, especially when personal actions did occur. However, this is always based on the facts of the specific situation as proffered by the attorneys. No one here know what those were.

    4. ARod himself has not met the requirements to testify and as of now was not going to testify. The grievance proceedings require a pre-interview for discovery purposes for the player to testify. ARod was to do so on 11/15, but produced a doctor’s note claiming his was sick. No interview was ever rescheduled. He has a right to not testify on his behalf in accordance with the proceedings, and having exercised it, looks pretty hypocritical complaining that someone else did not do so. Also, please don’t invoke the Fifth Amendment, as you can be compelled to testify in a civil matter you initiate and then not answer under the Fifth Amendment – but then it is presumed that your failure to answer is an admission against you. This will happen in any state or federal civil matter filed by ARod after the arbitration.

    5. The rules allow testimony by affidavit. This would not happen in state or federal court, except in motion practice.

    6. “The law is what’s in the contract. And in this case, the parties’ joint drug agreement, that’s the law. The drug program itself sets forward the standard. It specifically states what has to be shown by the commissioner in order to have the discipline upheld.” By essentially punting their case if they don’t come back tomorrow, the arbitrator is going to have to decide if MLB baseball made their case in accordance with the requirements by a preponderance of the evidence (which means that it is more likely than not) that either sufficient evidence was produced or an error was committed. No one but the parties in the room know what has been presented.

    Excellent short summary of the process, which I used the quotes from can be found here.


    • Coolerking101

      As a practicing labor and employment attorney, let me just say that everything here is dead on accurate. For clarification purposes I also add that:

      The fact that the Arbitrator ruled Selig does not have to testify will never be considered the kind of error, fraud or misconduct that could get the arbitrator’s decision overturned. This is especially true given that MLB’s #2 guy just testified. By his own admission, the #2 guy was the guy in charge of the A-Rod investigation who knows everything Selig knows.

      • I’m a looser baby so why don’t you kill me?

        And you take that admission at face value? I don’t, which is exactly why I’d want Selig to testify.

        • Tony Bologna

          Huh? This makes no sense.

        • I’m One

          What you or I take at face value doesn’t matter. The arbitrator, who heard the testimony, believes it. That’s what matters here. We can’t change that.

        • Coolerking101

          I’m sorry, but your point makes no sense.

          No one denies that Manfred ran the investigation. A-Rod’s team doesn’t challenge that fact. So clearly, there is no reason for Selig to testify about this. Everything Selig knows about the investigation came from Manfred. Manfred already testified. End of story.

      • Jimmy

        Hey wait a minute…. you guys aren’t planning to bill us for all this, are you?

    • mustang

      “4. ARod himself has not met the requirements to testify and as of now was not going to testify. The grievance proceedings require a pre-interview for discovery purposes for the player to testify. ARod was to do so on 11/15, but produced a doctor’s note claiming his was sick. No interview was ever rescheduled. He has a right to not testify on his behalf in accordance with the proceedings, and having exercised it, looks pretty hypocritical complaining that someone else did not do so”


      So I don’t understand how someone can have this input:

      “For the moment, I’ll say hats off to A-Rod for calling out Selig. It’s pretty clear — to me, at least, from the evidence we’ve seen publicly — that Selig does indeed have a vendetta against Alex. If the man wants to levy such a heavy punishment and then refuses to justify it, then how can an arbitrator rule that it’s appropriate? Again, just my input on this.”

      • Coolerking101

        Mustang, in response to your post I shall repeat the words of an much wiser than I who once said:

        “The world is full of stupid people.”

        • mustang

          I think very smart people can look very dumb when they let what they want come ahead of the facts in hand.
          People want Selig to pay a price for his role in the steroid era and feel that he is being hypocritical for going after A-Rod this hard that’s understandable. However twisting the facts to make to happen is not.

        • Mike HC

          No, the world is full of non lawyers who think rationally and don’t think in legal minutia and politically related bullshit.

          • Dan in Athens

            And which one of those rational non lawyers who don’t think in legal minutiae would you be hiring to represent you if you are ever in an arbitration and court case?

            • Mike HC

              Exactly. You can’t. The politicians and lawyers made it illegal and impractical to do so a very long time ago.

              • Mike HC

                But I appreciated your post and it was very informative. I just didn’t appreciate your “The world is full of stupid people” comment in reference to layman (Joe in particular) not understanding legal principles.

                • Dan in Athens

                  I did not post that, Coolerking101 did. Of course, you may think that basically showing you made false assertions is legal minutiae and politically related bullshit, but I generally like it when people use the truth to attack me.

                  May you never need a lawyer, but if you do, please at least have the courtesy to share your rant prior to signing up for their services. Also, demand that they do not to engage in any legal minutiae or politically related bullshit in your case, such as filing motions or raising objections to procedure.

                  • Mike HC

                    My bad. And no, calling me out for attributing a quote to you that you didn’t write is not legal minutia. That is calling me out on my bullshit, which is what Joe tried to do with Selig. But now I see you didn’t make that comment, so I have no beef with you.

                    And I’m not attacking you. I’m attacking our litigious society. In this case arbitration that is seemingly headed for a lot more. And as I wrote above, your comment educated me.

                    • Coolerking101

                      Well let me defend myself by saying, the world is full of stupid people…and let me assure you, plenty of them are lawyers.

                      Back to Mustang’s point, I believe anyone who doesn’t understand how incredibly hypocritical A-Rod is being is either naive or stupid.

                    • Mike HC

                      “the world is full of stupid people…and let me assure you, plenty of them are lawyers.”

                      haha … I’m in with that, ha

            • Darren

              You sound insufferable.

        • I’m a looser baby so why don’t you kill me?

          Way to endear yourself, douchebag.

  • Gonzo

    Yawn. Wake me when it’s over.

  • mustang

    “If the man wants to levy such a heavy punishment and then refuses to justify it, then how can an arbitrator rule that it’s appropriate?”

    He can rule that it’s appropriate BECAUSE

    “given that MLB’s #2 guy just testified. By his own admission, the #2 guy was the guy in charge of the A-Rod investigation who knows everything Selig knows.”

    • I’m a looser baby so why don’t you kill me?

      Why do you take that admission at face value? I know I wouldn’t. And ARod and his team obviously feel the same way. And that’s why he should be made to testify. I’d also subpoena every bit of communication in and out of Selig’s office, especially but not limited to that between Selig and the #2.

      • Need Pitching & Hitting

        What relevance does any of that have to whether ARod did what is being alleged or whether the length of suspension is appropriate?
        That’s all this hearing is about.
        Adding this other stuff is just ARod and his team trying to distract from the central issue.

        • mustang


        • mustang

          “What relevance does any of that have to whether ARod did what is being alleged or whether the length of suspension is appropriate?
          That’s all this hearing is about.”

          Worth repeating.

  • Newman

    We know so little (and speculate so much!) but walking out of that proceeding and having a fit ain’t helping his case. That kind of behavior never works and casts Mr. Rodriguez in a bad light. If he wants a good decision, he should get his platium-platted butt back in there and apologize to the arbitrator.

    • Fin

      Eeh, I doubt it was a spur of the moment tantrum. Just my opinion but it would seem the case is going badly for Arod, which many suspected it would and that its just a sympathy move on his part. Look how unfair I’m being treated, I cant even get Selig to testify. I’m sure they knew the odds of getting Selig in there were slim to none. Even trying was probably a publicity move in the first place, so they could ask him some embarrassing questions and get those on the record, relevant to the case or not. Either way, he was going to set him self up for a try at public sympathy.

      • mustang


      • Newman

        If that move was strategy, A-rod should fire his whole legal team. Worst possible way to get an arbitrator on your side. Sympathy move? Same lameness.

        • Fin

          That’s my point. In my opinion the Arod team feels the case is lost and trying for public sympathy is the last option, getting the arbitrator on their side is no longer an option.

  • trr

    Will someone please wish A-Rod into the cornfield?

  • David Brown

    When Alex Rodriguez’s career is over, he should go to Hollywood or Univision or Telemundo to do Telenovalas), he might make millions, and at least he will fit in with the multimillionaires who claim to be for the “Working People”. First we see him as “Norma Rae” (all we needed was a sign saying “Union YES!), then he has his own Hispanic cheering section (probably paid the Ad Agency), now we see him as Peter Finch (from his Oscar winning role in “Network”), basically saying “I’m Mad As Hell, And I’m Not Going To Take It Anymore.” Throw in the various “Conspiracy Theories” you might find on “Person of Interest” or “The Mentalist” or of course, “Conspiracy Theory.” All we need is a few “black helicopters” to set the stage. I’m surprised he does not question where Bud Selig was 50 years ago when JFK was shot? I cannot think of a Yankee Player I ever disliked more: Jack McDowell, Carl Pavavo, Kevin Brown, Randy Johnson, even Ed Whitson have nothing on him.

  • I’m a looser baby so why don’t you kill me?

    Loving every minute of it. (Except the part that hurts the Yanks payroll planning for 2014).

  • EndlessJose

    I never like A-rod much and the Red Sox game last year when he was hit made me actually root for him. As much as him being suspended can help the Yankees I think he is being thrown under the bus and take the burden of all Ped users.

    Sad Bud Selig gives the World Series MVP award to Ortiz and yet won’t face A-rod in court for Ped’s.

    • CashmanNinja

      If this was the first time A-Rod had been linked to PEDs then I’d agree, but let’s not forget about his time in Texas. He managed to avoid a suspension because it was before the new CBA/drug testing. Like it or not he was a user and MLB has been trying to crack down on this mess for a while now. Granted it *IS* Selig’s mess, but at least he’s trying to scoop up his own shit. The point of the matter is that A-Rod already screwed up once and I think this was MLB’s way of trying to get back at him for screwing the league previously. He could have taken a deal and been back similar to Braun, Peralta, Cruz, etc, but he decided to fight it and I feel that’s what really snowballed everything. A-Rod wanted to play hardball and Selig obliged.

      I’m not saying MLB and Selig are completely innocent, but A-Rod is the one who cheated. Plain and simple. I loved A-Rod, but I do feel he should just fade away the way Bonds did. It’s not like he’s not going to get his money. He’ll be paid, but it won’t be while being a member of the Yankees.

  • Giuseppe
    • BFDeal

      Is that helmet to protect Ortiz during his dugout roid rages?

      • Mike

        Any team with a roider on their team didn’t really earn their World Series victory.

        That’s why I can laugh at Red Sux fans and tell them ours in 2009 was more legitimate.

  • Ethan

    Is it possible (even if very unlikely) that he could actually be innocent (of taking PEDs that is)? That would certainly make for one hell of a story haha.

  • beachbum

    On decisions of this magnitude within any organization, the CEO sets the direction and makes the decision. This is one of the biggest decisions MLB has made recently and one of the most controversial. Selig undoubtedly was intimately involved, made the call and personally pushed for the unprecedented suspension. Theoretically, nobody needed to testify live – MLB could have just submitted a memo explaining its rationale point by point. But a critical benefit of a trial or hearing such as this is to have the opportunity to directly question the most relevant witnesses, challenge them and give the jury (in this case the arbitrator) the benefit of seeing the human reaction. So I think Horowitz’ decision was incorrect and Selig should have testified. Nonetheless, anybody who thinks Arod’s reaction, prepared statement and subsequent interview is anything other than pure staged theater intended to influence public perception and set the context for the next series of moves after he loses the arbitration – well, I have a bridge for sale.

    • Need Pitching & Hitting

      I’m not sure how Selig’s human reaction to any of this is at all relevant.
      Even if Selig did have a personal vendetta against ARod, it doesn’t change whether or not ARod did what was alleged or whether or not the length of suspension was appropriate.
      It’s up to MLB in this process to prove the allegations and argue for the length of punishment before the arbitrator. Who MLB chooses to present it’s case really shouldn’t matter, imo.

      • CashmanNinja


        I do feel that Selig should have had the balls to face him, but it was pretty unlikely that he would and most people knew that. A-Rod seems so extremely stuck up with all of this. In the Francesa interview he kept talking about his legacy and how Selig/MLB had no evidence against him, and also made claims how the Biogenesis guy was “bought”.

        I really do feel as if this was planned by A-Rod’s legal team. The arbitrator is basically a middle man. He is independent. A-Rod’s lawyers are on 1 side, MLBs’ are on the other, and the arbitrator is in the middle. He ruled that Selig didn’t have to testify and it isn’t the most shocking thing in the world. It’s not as if he made a ruling that 211 games wasn’t strict enough and ruled for a longer suspension. No, all he did was say Selig didn’t have to testify. Don’t forget it isn’t as if Selig acted alone. Hell, there are guys who were MUCH more involved with this than Selig. You don’t expect the big boss to go out and collect all the info yourself do you? The arbitrator is going to go through this with a magnifying glass because he knows if he messes up then he’ll look bad and gain a bad reputation which nobody in that position wants.

        At the end of the day A-Rod got caught and is trying to blame others instead of accepting it. He could have had a smaller suspension, but he wanted to fight it. He wanted 0 days instead of 50. Now he has 211. It’s like a guy getting arrested and having the ability to plead guilty without serving any time, but instead decides to fight it and then winds up in prison for years. He’s just stupid.

  • Mike

    I don’t care about what the truth is here. I just want the cap space so that we can improve the team. We used up Arod in his prime and this is a good chance to drop some dead weight.

  • Mike Myers

    so, whats everyones guess at this point?

    I think he knows its over 50.

    I’m guessing a full season 162 games.

    • mustang


    • Fin

      I would guess closer to 100 games. Even if MLB makes it case and Arod did all he is accused of, the arbitrator will attempt to satisfy both sides. 100 is a stiff penalty and says Arod did more than the first time offender rule. It also makes the Players association happy that 62 games were knocked off (I don’t think 211 is really an option, it’ll be a full season or less). Then the arbitrator will keep his job and not be replaced by either side.

  • RetroRob

    I’ll say one thing. He certainly seems legit in his annoyance and anger.

    Yet, I still think this is scripted. They are laying the groundwork for when it is ruled he is suspended (for however long) that they are then going to challenge MLB in court when Selig will have to testify. It’s not entirely out of question that if A-Rod is suspended and a suit is filed, he may be back on the field until the case is heard…which could take a year, two years, who knows.

    • mustang

      The case will see a court room.

      • Fin

        I’m sure he’ll try but I doubt it goes to court as he had arbitration to fall back on. That wasn’t the case for the saints players that got their day in court.

    • Fin

      LOL, you are right both times. It is scripted and Arod is annoyed and angry.

  • Mick taylor

    Selig is a corrupt scumbag. Ryan Braun should go to jail for trying to destroy a man’s life by accusing him of tampering with his urine sample. Yet he gets only 65 games. Arod has never done anything close to what Braun did And has never tested positiveyet gets 211 games. Selig does have a vendetta.

    • Need Pitching & Hitting

      Selig likely does have a vendetta.
      ARod did test positive (at least once in survey testing, allegedly again for stimulants later).
      How do you know what ARod has done? Or that it’s not anything close to what Braun did?
      Isn’t ARod accusing everyone of making false accusations against him and fabricating evidence?

  • Pasqua

    A-Rod is an asshole, likely lying his ass off, and likely planned this hissy fit way in advance, but that being said, I completely believe he’s being targeted.

    Look no further than the Braun case: Tests positive, lies and defames, continues to cheat, gets caught, gets suspended…and where is the moral outrage? Why was his suspension so lenient?

    As much as it pains me to say it, A-Rod should probably not be facing a suspension any longer than Braun’s, let alone be turned into MLB’s Most Wanted.

    • Fin

      Conflicting reports that Arod was offered the 50 game suspension but turned it down. Its very possible that if Braun turned his 65 game, baseball would have upped the ante on him too.

  • lightSABR

    Best A-Rod quote of the day: “I’m so pissed off right now I can’t even think straight.”

    Alex, you should know that outside of your circle of friends, lackeys, and lawyers – that is, in the real world – most people would question whether you’ve ever thought straight.

  • Fin

    LOL, what a few minutes after storming out he made a statement and a few hours later hes on the Fransceca show?

    • lightSABR

      I know. If there’s anyone out there who thinks the whole outburst wasn’t pre-planned, focus-grouped, and rehearsed, well, I’ve got a baseball team in Flushing I want you to bet on. I’ll give you 1:1 odds that they win the World Series next year. It’s a steal!

    • mustang

      This and I never realize what hate people have for Selig. I mean you really have to hate the guy in order to sell your soul to A-Rod.

      • Kiko Jones

        So, despising the hypocrite in charge of baseball WHO LOOKED THE OTHER WAY in the midst of the Steroid Era = selling your soul to A-Rod?

        Yeah, you’re an objective party. Sure.

  • Short Porch

    Right so along with the continued meddling and stupid decisions of the Steinbrenners — including the A-Rod suspension — and with the bleak prospects for the franchise for the near and middle term, we need to be further undermined by a cheater who just won’t go away? I am sorry my children have to witness this particular Yankees Era.

    I survived the Horace Clarke years, there’s always hope. But when moat of what you have to look forward to is the thin hope that Jeter in his last season, can at least play his position with some skill and dignity, and the team can at least battle to .500, it is going to be a long year. You’d hope that the A-Rod situation is resolved enough so that it doesn’t cast a pall on even that, but it doesn’t look that way now.

    Parity is here, and we are pretty mediocre now unless we manage to get smart.

  • Short Porch

    “The A-Rod extension” — spoiled the rant right there.

  • Chris

    I like arod thinks it’s Bud Selig that destroyed his career.

  • EndlessJose

    Bud Selig created A-Rod,Barry Bonds,Roger Clemens and like Dr.Frankenstein he hates his creation.

    Selig and the owners who hired Selig made billions of dollars knowing what these players took and when they were dragged to congress are now throwing these players under the bus.

    Bud Selig gives the Worlds Series MVP to Ortiz and doesn’t testify against A-Rod.As much as A-Rod being suspended helps the Yankees it’s becoming more clear MLB is on a witch hunt and A-Rod is taking the full burden of PED’S.

    • mustang

      “What relevance does any of that have to whether ARod did what is being alleged or whether the length of suspension is appropriate?
      That’s all this hearing is about.”

      We should start tattooing this on peoples assess.

      • Kiko Jones

        Jesus Christ! You don’t see how a vendetta/witch hunt/personal stake IN CLEARING HIS LEGACY as THE COMMISSIONER UNDER WHOSE WATCH the Steroid Era flourished and during which time HE LOOKED THE OTHER WAY, plus failing to nail Bonds, Clemens, etc. would color his approach towards the A-Rod case?! Really?! Even Stevie Wonder can see that!

        Maybe we should start tattooing THAT on people’s brains.

  • bpdelia

    Wow. Just ……wow.

    Alright I am admittedly always skeptical of authority and granted I generally root for Gary Oldman in movies but…damn.

    Is it possible he didn’t do it? Jeez. That was a fairly convincing performance there.
    I’ve assumed he did it.

    I’ve also thought it was an absurdly draconian suspension.

    I also don’t see ped use as some moral abomination.
    Ped use doesn’t make a guy idi amin.

    I’m confused now.

    Still mostly sad though.

  • Tom

    I have to admit this is brilliant from ARod’s team. While obviously totally planned, this accomplishes several things:

    1) Everything MLB said in the hearing is now on record and admissible in a future lawsuit
    2) ARod sees the entirety of MLB’s evidence.
    3) ARod, because he was “shocked and outraged” by the process (and fortunately just happened to have a press release ready to go?), now has absolultely nothing on record which is admissible for his future lawsuit.

    So he now gets 2 bites out of the apple.
    1) The arbiter will rule and maybe it gets reduced
    2) If it doesn’t or he doesn’t like the new suspension, he can proceed with the lawsuit and then use that as leverage against MLB to reduce the suspension further.

    Obviously this was staged, probably down to how many times he was supposed to slam his fist into the desk, but this was a brilliant play by his team.

  • Nick Social

    Alex loves the city of New York, you guys.

  • Mike B.

    Here’s to Dan in Athens!

  • Kevin G.

    I’m torn. One one hand I want A-Rod to win and stick it to Selig. On the other hand, I want the Yankees to have $30 million to spend on players to improve the team

  • mt

    A couple of other points:

    1) Arod’s team already stated last night that it has thrown up his hands and doesn’t know what it will do except probably go to federal court – seems to me to try to intimidate arbitrator since federal court will be reviewing his decision and since anything over 50 games has always been “judgment” I suppose. I think that would further intimidate arbitrator to reduce suspension as much as possible. I would love to be a fly in arbitrator’s head and know what he truly feels about this whole circus.

    2) I think I have figured out Arod’s sudden “I did not ever do anything” proclamation – ask yourself, if he truly did absolutely nothing why would one wait two to three months to say so (I think his team did calim no steroid use first around a month ago when Tacopina gave an interview to ESPN) – I think this is what happened.

    Arod has done steroids but did not know all of MLB’s evidence when this first came out in August – for example, he had no idea whether Bosch tape recorded or had a hidden camera through any of their sessions. If he denied in August and then there was a smoking gun tape recording or photo, game totally over. But after seeing the MLB evidence, which would be normally compelling to most neutral observers( i.e,, canceled checks, text messages, etc.) he still feels that since there is not 100% documented evidence of him injecting steroids that he can claim, no matter how unreasonable versus the normal compelling evidence, that he never actually took steroids – just that he may have paid Bosch or had conversations with Bosch – that now emboldens him to say “I have never done anything since 2003″ while right after this came out” – he said “we have to wait to hear my story” – if you truly never did any of this stuff, why was this so hard to say when it first came out?

    3) At the end of the day, someone who supposedly 100% never took anything is not going to testify to that effect in his own defense. Now he may be protecting other lies to MLB that he has told on this or similar matters so it could be argued that is why he will not testify. But, from a big picture perspective, this Selig testimony blow-up solidifies Arod not testifying after his “sick-out” last week.

    4) Totally agree with the two bites at the apple theory – he knows he will at least get 50 games and hopes arbitartor through all the noise and drama reduces it as much from 211 games as possible. Whatever arbitrator rules, whether 50, 100, 150 games, etc. he will go to federal court to completely remove any suspension with the advantage that he has no testimony on file that can be examined or contradicted. Intersting to see whether he testifies in federal court case.

  • Craig Sagermetrics

    I just want what’s best for the Yankees as a baseball team at this point. I don’t care about the feelings and/or legacies of crochety, old, NYC-hating Bud Selig, or poor, pure, innocent Alex, who’s being unfairly forced to be in the same room as “liars and felons.”

    So I hope Alex gets hit by a bus and is killed instantly.

  • MannyGeee

    This audio is fascinating.

  • bpdelia

    @tom and MT.

    Very well thought out. You’ve convinced me. Honestly I think the fair outcome is 70 games. Same as Braun plus a bit for being a huge pain in the ass. If I was Alex’s team I’m hoping for 70 and shooting for 60 with 50 being a total win.

    Prediction? 65 games.

  • mike g

    I know I’m totally late for this party but I just realized something. AROD walked away from the arbitration process the day before he was supposed to testify UNDER OATH.

    If he was innocent wouldn’t he love the opportunity to clarify things UNDER OATH. They never got Bonds for steroid use, per se, but they got him for perjury.

    That more than anything else clarifies things for me.

    so sad.