Hal Steinbrenner confirms Yankees will try to get under luxury tax threshold in two years

RAB Live Chat
Open Thread: March 20th Camp Notes
(Presswire)
(Presswire)

As expected, Hal Steinbrenner has confirmed the Yankees will try to get under the luxury tax threshold in two years or so. The team tried and failed to get under the $189M threshold last year. If you’ve been paying attention at all the last few years, this should be no surprise. Hal is very focused on the bottom line.

Here’s what Steinbrenner told Bill Madden:

“I found (being called cheap) very interesting,” he said, smiling, “given that we offered $25 million (for Moncada) and spent substantially in the international market (a reported $26.82 million in bonuses and penalties for greatly exceeding their bonus allotment). I’m not saying we’ll never give another seven-year contract, but going in you know you’re probably only going to get three-four good years out of it. It remains my goal to get under that $189 million (luxury-tax threshold), but it’s not going to happen for at least two more years when these big contracts we have expire. But I’ve continued to say you shouldn’t need $200 million to win a championship.”

Hal has really worn out that “you shouldn’t need $200M to win a World Series” line in recent years. I guess no one has told him there have only been 12 individual teams with a $200M+ payroll in baseball history, with nine going to the postseason and one winning the World Series (2009 Yankees). One out of 12 is a helluva lot better than whatever the odds have been for all the non-$200M payroll teams in history, but I digress.

Anyway, the current Collective Bargaining Agreement expires after the 2016 season and I expect the luxury tax threshold to be raised at that time. It has to go up. The league’s revenues are through the roof and a dozen teams will open this season with a payroll at or above $120M (six will be at or above $160M). With salaries and revenue only going up, a $189M luxury tax threshold doesn’t make sense anymore. It did when the current CBA was ratified in 2012, but come 2016 it should be at $200M at the very least, if not $210M.

Unlike the last time the Yankees tried to get under the luxury tax, they do have a lot of expensive contracts coming off the books soon. Mark Teixeira ($22.5M luxury tax hit) and Carlos Beltran ($15M) will be gone after 2016, maybe CC Sabathia ($24.4M) too. Alex Rodriguez ($27.5M) and Sabathia will definitely be off the books after 2017. Between shedding those big contracts and the inevitable raising of the luxury tax threshold, the Yankees will have a much better chance of getting under the tax threshold in two (or three) years than they did last year.

I totally understand why Hal wants to get under the luxury tax threshold — luxury tax is basically wasted money and no one likes throwing money away — and it’s his team, so he’s free to do whatever he wants. That said, the Yankees have a distinct advantage over the rest of the league because of their market, and focusing on getting under the luxury tax threshold is essentially tossing that advantage aside and leveling the playing field. The other 29 teams should send Hal a nice thank you note for that.

Whether you like it or not, the Yankees are going to try to get under the luxury tax threshold in the near future. My advice to Hal: stop talking about it. The media is going to ask, I know, but just say you’ve discussed it already and move on. Believe it or not, the fans don’t want to hear the owner talking about reducing payroll in the future, especially coming off back-to-back postseason-less years and with the team hardly a lock for October this year. So Hal, please just keep it to yourself the next few years. You’re the only one in favor of this.

RAB Live Chat
Open Thread: March 20th Camp Notes
  • Jerkface

    Hal sucks. Revenues will continue to rise, the blatant profit money grubbing is exactly the problem with corporate america.

    • Still Stucky

      Actually, it’s why corporate america exists. But that’s beside the point.

      The irony of the comments sure to come is they’re all about greed too. Wins and losses is a zero sum game. One team’s/citiy’s success is inversely another’s lack thereof.

      Sports teams don’t serve a public need, service or trust.

      People want Hal Steinbrenner to spend more because THEY want more success .. they want to see more success for their individual selfish, greedy reasons. Which is fine in of itself… until the above happens.

      You want to criticize his handling of the team from a profit and loss angle, okay, but to criticize him as being greedy because he’s not serving your greed is the height of hypocrisy.

      • The Great Gonzo

        Stucky gets it, man…. he just fucking gets it.

      • blake

        fans want their team to be good…..thats basically it. It’s not complicated.

      • Jerkface

        I think there is a difference in the ‘greed’ between lining an owners pocket & winning a game. Beyond wins & losses I also want teams to put more money into minor league operations providing housing & food for their prospects so they can live & eat healthily. Pay analysts & tech people more. Maybe fund their own stadiums. Pay their employees more.

        There are plenty of ways beyond the baseball payroll for owners to spend money. The 189 is just one symptom of the larger greed that i find so distasteful.

        • The Great Gonzo

          Translated to ‘There is a difference between my greed and a Steinbrenner’s greed’.

          Gotcha

          • Jerkface

            There is of course. My greed results in the improvement of life for many people. HAL’s greed results in the improvement of life for HAL. I am the way & the light. HAL is a nerd.

            • The Great Gonzo

              Isn’t resetting the payroll luxury cap and in turn not signing uber expensive players that will result in being albatross contracts helping the health of the team?

              • The Big City of Dreams

                that will result in being albatross contracts helping the health of the team?

                ——————
                That’s the hope but this team isn’t good when it comes to developing their own to replace the lack of big money contracts.

  • blake

    shut up Hal

  • blake

    I find it interesting that youre getting all this money for soccer to screw up the field and you wouldn’t spend 13 more million dollars to get the best young player in the world…..but thats just me!

    The Yanks are in the position they are in for a lot of reasons…..but one of the biggest ones is Hal Steinbrenner…..who with his brother gave Arod his new contract that they complain about all the time….and who also shut down spending for like 4 years and let the roster rot so he could get under the luxury tax in 2014…..and then didn’t even get under the luxury tax!!! Fire yourself Hal….or let someone that knows what the heck they are actually doing make the decisions.

  • Dick M

    No surprise here. Hal’s an 85 win owner. The only thing he’ll respond to are further drops in ratings and attendance. New ownership is the preferable end game here. For all parties.

  • Sir Didi Nakamura

    Basically if the Yankees spend 20m next year on a start pitcher for some years, that’s not going to happen in 2017. I think this is a good plan. As long as in 2017 they get under, get their tax reset and then in 2018 are willing to spend over it, I’m good.

    • The Big City of Dreams

      It’s a good plan if you have faith in what they are doing. With the way they have been in recent yrs it would be hard to believe they can pull it off.

  • ScottinSJ

    Hey Hal, why don’t you try talking about the championships you plan to win. Maybe the team’s fans might be a tad more interested in that. You think any fan gives a shit about whether you are or are not over the luxury cap? What a tool.

    • The Great Gonzo

      He’s not being asked about the championships he plans on winning, just about the payroll. Don’t h8 teh player….

      • ScottinSJ

        The savvy leader would deflect questions on payroll and emphasize that his goal is to win championships, REGARDLESS of whether that is or isn’t his ultimate goal. Perception matters, and this guy is clueless.

        • The Great Gonzo

          So…. deflection was the move? That doesn’t make you seem swarmy at all

        • Moncada’s Codpiece

          What does it matter if fans will bash anything he says about championships as lip service?

        • Moncada’s Codpiece

          What does it matter if fans will bash anything he says about championships as lip service?

  • NullHitter

    The highest television deal above the Dodgers and the largest market of all of baseball. Yet, Hal wants to cut money? complete and utter disgrace of an owner.

  • blake

    I don’t know Hal at all….but he comes across in these interviews he does like he thinks he’s the smartest guy in the room……being a “finance geek” doesn’t mean you’re good at finance or specifically good at knowing how to run a baseball business…..which is much different than running a Hampton Inn

    • Chip

      Hal never wanted to nor should he have ever been put in position to run a baseball team.

    • Evan3457

      Barry Switzer once said in describing someone, “He was born on 3rd base and thinks he hit a triple. Lately, ” I’ve been thinking the same can be said of Hal.

  • Bertin Lefkovic

    Do you think that it would be possible to crowdfund/kickstart $3B to buy the Yankees from Tweedle Hal and Tweedle Hank? I wonder if Bill DeBlasio could be conviced to take both the Mets and the Yankees away from their owners under eminent domain laws.

    • slim

      Any mention of Bill DeBlasio’s name in a positive light completely kills your point.

      • Bertin Lefkovic

        He is the Mayor of NYC. Who else would make an eminent domain claim? Chris Christie?

    • Moncada’s Codpiece

      No. And no.

      I know eminent domain has been used for damn near everything these days, but taking ownership of some sports team is maybe a bit of stretch.

      • Bertin Lefkovic

        Maybe, but it would guarantee him re-election. If Giuliani was still Mayor, he would do it. He would publicly slap these two children around, tell them that they are an embarrassment to their father, who is rolling in his grave, give them 10 cents on the dollar to walk away, and then sell the Yankees to Cashman Jeter, Cuban et al for five times that much, turning a tidy profit for the city. Mind you, I am no fan of Giuliani in general, but he was never shy about his love for the Yankees. During the Subway Series in 2000, he didn’t even try to be diplomatic

        • Evan3457

          Giuliani would never have done anything like this to a major NYC private enterprise, especially one with many dealings with city government.

    • Moncada’s Codpiece

      No. And no.

      I know eminent domain has been used for damn near everything these days, but taking ownership of some sports team is maybe a bit of stretch.

  • Chip

    This is where Cashman’s job is on the line I think. Hal wanted to get under $189 before but couldn’t because he had too much money tied up in too few players and because the farm system didn’t produce.

    Two years from now, like Mike says, the massive contracts of dead money are off the books leaving (right now) Tanaka, Ellsbury, McCann as the big money makers…only way that works though is if the farm system is producing quality players.

    If the Yankees can roll into 2017 with a lineup of:

    Sanchez – C
    Bird – 1b
    Refsnyder/Pirela – 2b
    Headley – 3b
    Didi/Mateo – SS
    Gardner – LF
    Ellsbury – CF
    Judge – RF
    McCann – DH

    That’s a representative team that I think we would all enjoy and would give them wiggle room under that tax threshold which, also as Mike points out, will be higher.

    There might even be room under that scenario to add Heyward this offseason and still make it work.

    All of that being said, if the farm system doesn’t produce, if the development of those guys is stalled and the Yankees have to employ the same dumpster diving that they have the last couple of years before the big outlay last year – then Cashman will be canned.

    • RetroRob

      The problem is MLB is moving towards a model that will consistently reward the teams at the bottom. Being good as the Yankees were for years, or mediocre now, limits access to drafting the truly elite players. The international draft is coming with the next CBA, which is really going to hit home. It’s why the Red Sox have been going in big on international and spent big on Moncada. That’s where Hal is failing. He’s pulling up short. It’s not that he’s cheap; it’s that he’s not fully understanding the market and where and how to spend in the new world order.

      • Chip

        that’s 100% correct. Hal understands the dollars – he doesn’t the sport.

        What will be interesting will be how he deals with players like Pineda, Eovaldi and even Didi in the next year or two. Does he sign them to the kinds of long term deals that teams are giving to their best young players to keep them cost controlled or does he stick with the model of not handing out extensions and instead going year to year.

        The Yankees, as an organization, have been painfully slow to catch up to the new paradigms in the sport – from flexing in the international FA pool so you can sacrifice picks to even over spending in the draft on guys with signability issues. Now those loopholes are closed to them.

        • Moncada’s Codpiece

          The no extensions model that produced contracts before free agency to Sabathia, Gardner, and Cano?

          I think it’s possible there will be deals in line for those folks, but they all need to prove themselves worth the multi-year commitment.

        • Moncada’s Codpiece

          The no extensions model that produced contracts before free agency to Sabathia, Gardner, and Cano?

          I think it’s possible there will be deals in line for those folks, but they all need to prove themselves worth the multi-year commitment.

      • Havok9120

        I agree with this completely.

      • Havok9120

        I agree with this completely.

    • chris hines

      Well yeah if 4 of the top 10 players in the system develop into at least big league starters you’d be pretty well off, it’s just so extremely unlikely.

    • chris hines

      Well yeah if 4 of the top 10 players in the system develop into at least big league starters you’d be pretty well off, it’s just so extremely unlikely.

  • ÅndyInSunnyDB

    Hal should ask the Dodgers how they are able to have a payroll that’s $50M more than his and still turn a profit.

  • TC1

    This is really gonna piss off all those free agents and their representatives next year as they try to bring NYY up as a negotiating ploy.

    • The Great Gonzo

      Screw those guys. I don’t think having the guy who is using NYY as a negotiation tactic should have the privilege. Use the Dodgers as your ace in the hole.

  • Chasening A Shreve

    “I found being called cheap very interesting” he said smiling. Guy comes across as a dick, who lacks the passion to run a baseball organization like his father did. All he cares about his putting asses in the seats and making profits, solely in it for business purposes and not putting a winning product on the field. Hes starting to become like…Daniel Snyder bad

    • Still Stucky

      Fans that lionize George Steinbrenner don’t know a thing about George Steinbrenner. His entire body of work is characterized by blatant mismanagement.

      • The Great Gonzo

        FALSE! Papa Bear had the passion to win!!!!!

        • Jesse

          Well, he did. He made his many mistakes in the act of trying too hard to win.

          • The Great Gonzo

            Yeah, that wasn’t much better though…

          • Still Stucky

            Trying to hard to win…. his bullying of players and managers was about HIM, not winning.

      • Chasening A Shreve

        And Hal hasn’t shown blatant mismanagement? like constantly changing on a dime? claiming to go full on youth yet skipping out on what would have probably been New Yorks best prospect since the early 90s? cmon

        • Still Stucky

          I wasn;t making a comparison, i was correcting a falsehood.

          • Chasening A Shreve

            George tried his damnest to win, sure it got out of hands at times but he wanted to win..which should be the goal of every sports owner. He was very aggressive, and it is what made the Yankees…the Yankees. Hal doesn’t give a shit

            • Still Stucky

              Again, you’re rebutting things I didn’t say. George Steinbrenner badly mismanaged the Yankees for much of his tenure, the correct credit he gets for the dynasty is being suspended for allowing it to begin and finally ceding the decisions to better, more qualified people.

              But at the height of his power he was a ridiculous figure in the whole.

    • The Great Gonzo

      Spend your money how I want you to or else you’re a dick!

  • Still Stucky

    Yankees have won the most championships in professional sports but we all WANT MORE, at the expense of others teams/fans getting some

    Is that not the very definition of GREED?

    Don’t misunderstand me, it’s what professional sports is all about. No argument.

    But why is our greed different or better than his?

    Just because it’s ours’?

    • blake

      probably because we aren’t making millions and millions and millions of dollars off of the team. You play to win the game Stuckey

      • The Great Gonzo

        False. They own a franchise to put a proper product on the field and make money. You want them to make less profit by spending their money YOUR WAY. Rings are not guaranteed.

        • Moncada’s Codpiece

          Hal’s a Communist by not spending all the monies and by acting in a manner than another team may also act.

      • Still Stucky

        Yankees fans ARE sports millionaires. We’re the relatively wealthy, if you actually want to express a fair, relevant analogy.

        We’ve had our fair share, we want more.

        Which is again, fine and well, it’s what sports is about. But I’m not calling anyone else greedy.

        What we want is personal greed, by definition.

        • blake

          You’re reaching big time…..Iinstead of playing devils advocate for once just say HAL SUCKs! It’ll feel good I promise

          • Still Stucky

            How is it a reach. Its all about perspective. Fans see wanting a championship EVERY year as some sort of virtue. You don’t think corporate CEOs see their greed as virtuous? They create jobs, they stimulate the economy.

            What’s NOT greedy about wanting to win EVERY year that’s different than wanting your profit margin to improve EVERY year?

            Explain the difference.

  • The Great Gonzo

    OK here’s my gripe with this post…

    “One out of 12 is a helluva lot better than whatever the odds have been for all the non-$200M payroll teams in history, but I digress.”

    But, I counter with one question: How many times in the past 10 years has the team with the highest payroll actually won the World Series? Past 25? History of the game?
    I get what you all are saying. Hal and Hank owes it to the team to field a group of players that can compete for a ring every season. I understand that. BUT: Spending more than everybody on only what Blake, Chip, Dick, and all other first name only males want does not guarantee you a ticket punched to October.

    And for what its worth, in 2012-14, when the ‘roster was rotting’, I would love to hear every single one of your suggestions on who they shoulda signed then. I, for one, think it was a necessary pause in spending, and the dry spell of 2016 will be the same, in order to prevent destructive behavior from continuing…

    • Dick M

      A few things Gonzo: 1 — No one’s asking for a guarantee on October. What we want is efficient use of our ample resources. Why should we have to watch the Chris Stewarts and the over the hill Brian Roberts of the world when we have the deck stacked in our favor? 2 — The argument about “who was available” in 12-14 is really tired. We know there was no one to be had. The question is, “how did it get to that point”? 3 — Good organizations don’t get into the whole “destructive behavior” thing.

      In the big picture, it’s getting pretty obvious that Hal’s a bean counter first and foremost. The Yanks deserve better in my opinion.

      • Havok9120

        The issue being that many people tend to equate “efficient use of our ample resources” with “they’re spending their money in the manner and amount that I want to see.”

        The fact that an argument has been had doesn’t make it irrelevant. At least not until someone comes up with a reason for why it should be. Not only were there not the players available, the nature of the game, not to mention team building, went through a pretty drastic change during that time period. That’s not something that should be waved away simply because we’re dissatisfied with the results.

        Meanwhile, what qualifies as “destructive?” Is an organization in constant “boom-bust-rebuild” cycle more or less destructive than a team that can only field what the fanbase finds acceptable by constantly raising payroll at a faster rate than the rest of baseball? What about a team that effectively sells off all its recognizable parts and is constantly retooling, thus rarely (if ever) putting itself in a position to go “all in,” is that destructive?

    • Moncada’s Codpiece

      This is also true with roster spots, which are also a rare (in the economic sense) resource. Yankees spending has gotten them in a jam with particular individuals earning particular sums of money and taking up particular roster spots. There is a possible window of opportunity for resetting the luxury tax so that the $25 million+ spent each year can go back to something more productive than paying the very rich owners of the Minnesota Twins.

      Well said from someone whose first name is “The.” If that even is your real name.

    • Moncada’s Codpiece

      This is also true with roster spots, which are also a rare (in the economic sense) resource. Yankees spending has gotten them in a jam with particular individuals earning particular sums of money and taking up particular roster spots. There is a possible window of opportunity for resetting the luxury tax so that the $25 million+ spent each year can go back to something more productive than paying the very rich owners of the Minnesota Twins.

      Well said from someone whose first name is “The.” If that even is your real name.

    • hrbomber1113

      Russell Martin? Not banking on Ichiro’s fan draw? C’mon

    • hrbomber1113

      Russell Martin? Not banking on Ichiro’s fan draw? C’mon

    • http://riveraveblues.com Mike Axisa

      I was being facetious.

  • RetroRob

    My hope is that Hal is a smart man, and I do believe he is. That means he will learn. Unfortunately, he has ceded the Yankees distinct market advantage. He appears to be treating the Yankees as a family annuity that was built on the back of his father’s investments. I hope I’m wrong.

    • blake

      its impossible to know…..I think he thinks he’s smart…..and sometimes that leads to people making bad decisions. The smartest people know their limitations and have great people around them and listen to them.

      • RetroRob

        Yes, it is impossible to know, but there’s also an area here where I can’t make a good guess. I don’t really know what’s going on in the Yankees FO. I think fans make assumptions, for example, that Randy Levine is heavily interfering with player decisions, but I’m not sure we have clear evidence of that. Yes, he did on Soriano, which in retrospect wasn’t exactly the worst decision. He seemed to have input on A-Rod, which has had a deep downside. Yet what we do know from these snippets is he seems more likely to be in the George camp of increased spending, not reducing spending. That all started when Hal showed up.

        All FO’s have multiple voices and some interference from non-baseball ops people. Comes with the territory. In the end, it has to fall on Hal’s desk. If there were conflicting opinions on Moncada to use a recent example, he’s the one who needed to lean back and say this is on me. You’ve already convinced me to place a $27MM bid, let’s up our offer. I wouldn’t expect this to go on forever because there is a point you pull back. The issue is he didn’t try, which makes me question how serious he was.

        The one point that definitely resonates with me from Mike’s write-up is the PR angle. Why is he even talking about this? It’s an A-Rod level social tone death.

    • ScottinSJ

      The man needs to be shown there are repercussions for his (in)action. Until he feels it in the wallet, he will run the enterprise in his ultra-conservative, myopic manner. He knows no other way. Shame.

  • Chasening A Shreve

    And, you do need a 200 million payroll to win, or at least be highly competitive from year to year. That’s just the way I see it, especially with an organization that has a cloudy history of developing mediocre talent, it’s not smart to do..when your in such a large market

    • Still Stucky

      Is having multiple contracts like Tex, Arod, Sabathia;s in perpetuity a good idea?

      • Chasening A Shreve

        When your the New York Yankees sure, whatever happened to having all the money in the world?

    • The Great Gonzo

      False. There has historically been teams with payrolls less than $200M that win games at a higher rate than they lose them .

      • Chasening A Shreve

        Im saying, this franchise as a whole needs to have a high payroll. Fans, mostly casuals in a huge market will not have the patience for mediocrity and a team with a small market mentality

      • Chip

        But when you’re paying approximately 100 million to 4 players who aren’t really performing, it’s very hard to find 21 high quality guys for another 100 million if your farm system also isn’t producing.

    • Carl Anon

      Posada, Pettitte, Jeter, Bernie, Donnie Baseball, Cano, Rivera, etc. You can’t tell me that the Yankees develop mediocre talent… They merely developed a habit of trading it all away like a bunch of shortsighted buffoons.

  • lightSABR

    The reason people get nostalgic for the Boss isn’t that he was some perfect owner who never made mistakes. It’s that we knew, deep down, that he owned the Yankees because he was a Yankees fan.

    If Hal didn’t own the Yankees, I’m not sure he’d watch baseball. Heck, I’m not sure he does now.

    • gageagainstthemachine

      Didn’t George become a Yankee fan when his bid to buy the Indians (I believe) didn’t happen?

  • Jason Hirsch

    *You shouldn’t need to* sell your stake in YES for $4,000,000,000…look, he has every right to make as much cash as he wanted, but Hal…begging you…just shut up. As Mike points out, spending $200M certainly can help if done properly – if you have a plan…which it really didn’t appear you had for so long.

  • ScottinSJ

    If people want a corporate analogy, Hal is great at cost-cutting and expense management, but at the expense of investing in R&D. Today’s R&D investments are meant to yield tomorrow’s breakthrough products and the future stream of cashflow and profits. If you tighten the screws on development, you risk the long-term health of the organization.

    • Still Stucky

      So their international spending spree is what in your analogy?

      • Dick M

        Small potatoes.

      • Dick M

        Small potatoes.

    • lightSABR

      The right corporate analogy is the BCG Matrix: http://www.netmba.com/strategy/matrix/bcg/

      Hal has (quite correctly) concluded that the Yankees are a cash cow, not a star. Further investments in winning are not likely to increase their market share substantially, so they’re not worth it—if you want to maximize profits, you don’t reinvest, you just ride your brand.

      • ScottinSJ

        Apple could easily ride its brand, but it doesn’t. Its objectives are delivering cutting-edge products and achieving market dominance. As an investor, that’s what I want from corporate management.

        • Still Stucky

          “delivering cutting-edge product” IS Apple’s brand.

          The word “A-p-p-l-e”, the color white and it’s logo isn’t it’s “brand.”

        • lightSABR

          Different markets, different logic. Developing a new killer device or app could make Apple tens of billions.

          In contrast, producing the best baseball team of all time wouldn’t be much more valuable to the Yankees than pulling a 2014 Royals–i.e., sneaking into the playoffs and getting lucky for a few weeks.

          (And, incidentally, what do this year’s Yankees look like? Dominant bullpen, solid defense, youth… just add some steals and you have the 2014 Royals.)

          • ScottinSJ

            By youth, you surely mean the starting lineup, right? With A-Rod, Beltran, Tex, and everyone 30+ except for Didi.

        • lightSABR

          Different markets, different logic. Developing a new killer device or app could make Apple tens of billions.

          In contrast, producing the best baseball team of all time wouldn’t be much more valuable to the Yankees than pulling a 2014 Royals–i.e., sneaking into the playoffs and getting lucky for a few weeks.

          (And, incidentally, what do this year’s Yankees look like? Dominant bullpen, solid defense, youth… just add some steals and you have the 2014 Royals.)

      • Dick M

        I prefer “take advantage of the brand”. And when that happens it’s time for the buying public to vote with their pocketbooks and stay away.

      • Dick M

        I prefer “take advantage of the brand”. And when that happens it’s time for the buying public to vote with their pocketbooks and stay away.

  • Carl Anon

    Hopefully he relies on a few of the youngsters down on the farm to make it happen. If that’s the case then I think we are in good shape.

    • The Big City of Dreams

      Hopefully he relies on a few of the youngsters down on the farm to make it happen.

      ——————-
      They will roll with the youngsters until they stumble. Then they’ll pull the plug.

  • Chip

    As I said when talking about NYFC playing at the Stadium…George was all about money too…but never at the expense of the product on the field.

    Having said that – if the Mets improve and the Yankees miss the playoffs again I fully expect Hal to be forced to reverse course. The Luxury Tax is small potatoes compared to diminished ticket sales and ad revenue.

    • ÅndyInSunnyDB

      George inherited his father’s shipping business then later sold it, hopefully the Family Trust sells the Yankees and concentrates their efforts on the MLS

      • Havok9120

        I’m not at all certain I want to play roulette with a new ownership group.

        • Dick M

          I’ll take my chances. Hal’s blowing my brains out right now.

          • Havok9120

            No, that’s you letting yourself agitated over a sports franchise.

            There are far more of what you seem to consider “bad” owners in the sport than good ones. At least Hal and Co. are still spending at extremely high levels, both on the MLB club and in the ancillary areas (stadium, minor leagues, support facilities, draft, IFA). It’d be very, very easy to get an owner that refrained from doing any of that. Most of these guys play their franchises as investments far more than the Steins do.

            • Chasening A Shreve

              Hal constantly contradicts his methods, specifically this past offseason

            • Chasening A Shreve

              Hal constantly contradicts his methods, specifically this past offseason

        • Dick M

          I’ll take my chances. Hal’s blowing my brains out right now.

        • Bertin Lefkovic

          If Tweedle Hal and Tweedle Hank were interested in selling the team, I would not be surprised if Brian Cashman and Derek Jeter called Mark Cuban and were able to put a very good group together very quickly.

          • Havok9120

            Even if we go with this fantasy world where we know Cashman, Jeter, and Cuban are all in instant agreement with what the best way to run a baseball team is, Mark Cuban will likely never own an MLB franchise. The other owners have a say, too, you know.

            • Bertin Lefkovic

              You speak of a fantasy world as if it is a bad thing. This is a blog. What we what doesn’t have to operate within the realm of reality. The fact that you confine your thinking to what is possible or not is your business. Don’t make it mine.

              • Havok9120

                With yourcrazy trade proposals, that line of thinking is one thing. In this case, you specifically said “I would not be surprised if Brian Cashman and Derek Jeter called Mark
                Cuban and were able to put a very good group together very quickly,” in the event that the Steins wanted to sell.

                As in, you posited this as a response to a possible real world event.

                • Bertin Lefkovic

                  It was a Yankees front office guy who arranged for Steinbrenner et al to buy the Yankees from CBS. Cashman would probably be the first to get the chance to try to put together an ownership group if the Steins decided to sell. Jeter has been talked about as somebody who would like to be an owner someday. Yes, I know that Cuban is more or less blacklisted by MLB, but that doesn’t mean that I cannot dream of having him own the Yankees. Call it an alchemy of fantasy and reality.

  • just_add_bacon7

    I’d love to rail against Hal on this one, but since I’m a firm believer in not pissing money away I can’t.

    Maybe if MLB was turning that money into some sort of humanitarian good things would be different, but instead it just seems to go back into their already stuffed coffers.

  • Moncada’s Codpiece
  • captainmike

    I think it is great to get the payroll down
    screw all the greedy players and their agents
    you don’t need to spend lots of money foolishly
    you need to put together a team intelligently, that’s all

  • Chip

    Hal’s issue is this: he sees the bottom line of the payroll but refuses to look at how that money is being spent.

    It’s true, you don’t need a $200 million payroll to win. However, if you have four players making close to half of that money then you have a problem. That problem is compounded if you don’t have any faith in your farm system and instead spend a couple of million here and there on ML retreads like Ryan, Young and Capuano rather than allowing players like Pirela, Flores and Mitchell to play for the ML minimum.

    You can field a team for under $200m but you need to spend smarter and spread the money around and allow your prospects to…you know…actually play.

    • Chasening A Shreve

      Exactly, 15 million devoted to three career mediocre players is just wrong use of your supposed budget.

      • Chip

        Throw in Stephen Drew and you’re talking what – $20 mil on sub-par players? Not to stir the pot, but if you have that money to spend you can easily go higher for Moncada who will be a lot more helpful to the Yankee plans than Capuano, Young, Ryan and Drew will.

        • Chasening A Shreve

          It’s incredibly dumb that such money is devoted into below average players. 5 million for a guy coming off one of the worst years in major league history

          • Still Stucky

            Wait, is Hal dumb or greedy/cheap? Because right now, you guys can’t seem to decide…..

            • Chasening A Shreve

              I was thinking this topic was on Cashman, but I guess Hal qualifies since it’s really his money going to waste

            • Chasening A Shreve

              I was thinking this topic was on Cashman, but I guess Hal qualifies since it’s really his money going to waste

            • Chip

              I didn’t call him dumb, greedy or cheap. I said that his current strategy doesn’t mesh with his business model.

              If he wants to get under a tax threshold that’s fine, I don’t care. But if you’re going to do it, then it’s not just about spending vs. not spending it’s about spending smarter.

              If you only have X dollars to spend, spend it on players who will generate results that are far superior to those you could get from the players currently in your system for a fraction of the cost. The Yankee refrain under George and it is one that Levine has trumpeted in more recent years, is that Yankee fans only want stars and will only accept star names – thus rookies don’t play.

              If the budget is that big a deal then you have to break that paradigm and deal with the growing pains of a Refsnyder or Pirela at 2b for $500k rather than sign Stephen Drew who may not be any better for $4.5 mil more…then you allocate that $4.5 mil to a player like Moncada or Tomas or Lopez because the potential they bring to the system is so much greater than what you currently have.

            • Chip

              I didn’t call him dumb, greedy or cheap. I said that his current strategy doesn’t mesh with his business model.

              If he wants to get under a tax threshold that’s fine, I don’t care. But if you’re going to do it, then it’s not just about spending vs. not spending it’s about spending smarter.

              If you only have X dollars to spend, spend it on players who will generate results that are far superior to those you could get from the players currently in your system for a fraction of the cost. The Yankee refrain under George and it is one that Levine has trumpeted in more recent years, is that Yankee fans only want stars and will only accept star names – thus rookies don’t play.

              If the budget is that big a deal then you have to break that paradigm and deal with the growing pains of a Refsnyder or Pirela at 2b for $500k rather than sign Stephen Drew who may not be any better for $4.5 mil more…then you allocate that $4.5 mil to a player like Moncada or Tomas or Lopez because the potential they bring to the system is so much greater than what you currently have.

          • Still Stucky

            Wait, is Hal dumb or greedy/cheap? Because right now, you guys can’t seem to decide…..

          • Wicomico Pinstripes

            In a vacuum, yes, but you also need to account for relative need, and what can be expected of said players going forward.

        • Chasening A Shreve

          It’s incredibly dumb that such money is devoted into below average players. 5 million for a guy coming off one of the worst years in major league history

  • captainmike

    if people like gene michael hadn’t talked the boss out of so many moronic trades the yanks would have been losers most of the past 30 years

  • Still Stucky

    We all don’t just want more championships, we want ALL the championships.

    We don’t care if it’s at the expense of the good of the league’s other teams.

    We don’t care if it’s at the expense of the good of the league.

    We don’t care how the Yankees do it, if they flex financial power that the other teams simply don’t have.

    Now replace “championships” with “profits” and “league” and “other teams” with “people.”

    Isn’t this the “greedy corporate America”, the “1%” we’re critical of?

    • Chip

      Yeah, the league really suffered in the late 90s with the Yankees winning titles…it was a dark dark time for baseball revenues.

      Oh wait…no it wasn’t.

    • Chip

      Yeah, the league really suffered in the late 90s with the Yankees winning titles…it was a dark dark time for baseball revenues.

      Oh wait…no it wasn’t.

      • Still Stucky

        You didn’t read it correctly. I said every year.

  • Dalek Jeter

    Head, meet desk. Desk, meet head. I’m in full agreement with Mike. It’s Hals team, and he’s free to do as he will, but for the love of Mo, please stop talking about it. All it does is make fans who think you can be a competent owner sigh and make fans who long for the days of your dad angry. Just say “I’ve spoken about that and have nothing new to add.”

  • Chip

    If I’m Cashman then here is the come to Jesus meeting I have with Hal.

    “Look, I can get you under $200 million in a couple of years, but you need to tell Randy Levine to shut the hell up. You need to ignore him when he spouts off the old George fear that no one wants to see young players play. Throwing good money after bad to sign re-treads isn’t helping your bottom line. I can sign top quality players like Heyward or Upton in the coming year and still get you under there if you will just let me augment the lineup with kids. Sure, they may stink coming out of the gate, but they’ll stink for $500k vs. Stephen Drew stinking for $5 million.”

  • blake

    Hal failed

  • blake

    Hal failed

  • Chasening A Shreve

    We talk about Refsnyder and Pirelas bad fielding costing the Yankees games, as opposed to say Stephen Drews awful hitting

  • Chasening A Shreve

    We talk about Refsnyder and Pirelas bad fielding costing the Yankees games, as opposed to say Stephen Drews awful hitting

  • SweetSpot

    Hal is right and he is far from the only one for financial restraint. If I was the owner of the Yankees I wouldn’t want to pay a luxury tax after those albatross contracts are off the books. You’re talking about taking $20 million dollars or so and ripping it up. It is insane. This is a different era with the additional wild card and more parity, less quality free agents and more pitchers getting hurt. You cannot buy a championship. I think Hal making this clear when asked, is appropriate as the whining about him being cheap is incessant. Tell the writers to stop asking if you don’t want to hear his truthful answer. You win by drafting intelligently domestically and internationally, developing those players, promoting them or dealing them for established players or other prospects that fill a positional need. Once in a while you go big for a free agent you value but not if it’s an older player for an extended term. If you don’t learn from past mistakes you’re stupid and obstinate. The bottom line here is that some Yankee fans feel entitled based on having won 27 championships. Well news bulletin, time moves inexorably on and market and game realities change. If you can’t win on an even playing field, so be it.

    • The Original Drew

      So they won in 2009 not because of Alex Rodriguez, CC Sabathia, AJ Burnett, Mark Teixeira, Damon, Swisher and the others? But because of the draft? I will never understand someone defending a billionaire who cares more about profit margins than winning games.

      • Still Stucky

        “I will never understand someone defending a billionaire who cares more about profit margins than winning games.”

        As will I never understand someone who cares about more complaining, whining and being bitter and perpetually dissatisfied than finding an alternative recreational activity that doesn’t involve complaining, whining and being bitter and perpetually dissatisfied.

        • Chasening A Shreve

          Fine, Hal is perfect and does nothing wrong

          • Still Stucky

            Irrelevant.

          • Still Stucky

            Irrelevant.

        • Now Batting

          You can’t understand people have invested their entire lives in the Yankees and don’t want to find an alternative?

          • Still Stucky

            Not when it involves being perpetually bitter, no.

            That defeats the purpose, literally.

            • Now Batting

              So Hal is going to be the owner forever, even outliving the Yankees brand. If you don’t like it find something else. I recall James Dolan saying something similar in a written letter recently.

              • Still Stucky

                I don’t recommend that. I recommend keeping things in healthy perspective. As a KNicks fan I can be dissatisfied with James Dolan, but I’m not going to let it poison me.

                Healthy criticism is fine and enjoyable to read. Calling Hal greedy is hypocrisy.

                • Chasening A Shreve

                  More clueless than greedy if anything

                  • Still Stucky

                    Okay… and constantly complaining on message boards but still watching the team on TV and going to the games is what…?

                    I call your “loyal” and raise you “clueless” and “counterproductive.”

                    • Chasening A Shreve

                      Im just stating what I see with the organization is all, if it’s complaining so be it. It’s a Yankees blog where we discuss the team. Nothing positive has surrounded this franchise the last few years. I call it like I see it, if I stopped watching nothing would change, one person alone isn’t gonna drastically create a movement

                    • Still Stucky

                      So why do you CHOOSE to participate in something where there is no positivity?

                    • Chasening A Shreve

                      I suffered through the 80s, no turning back now

                    • Still Stucky

                      Fine, so maybe you can man the F up and stop whining about it.

                    • Chasening A Shreve

                      I suffered through the 80s, no turning back now

                    • Still Stucky

                      So why do you CHOOSE to participate in something where there is no positivity?

                    • Chasening A Shreve

                      Im just stating what I see with the organization is all, if it’s complaining so be it. It’s a Yankees blog where we discuss the team. Nothing positive has surrounded this franchise the last few years. I call it like I see it, if I stopped watching nothing would change, one person alone isn’t gonna drastically create a movement

                  • Still Stucky

                    Okay… and constantly complaining on message boards but still watching the team on TV and going to the games is what…?

                    I call your “loyal” and raise you “clueless” and “counterproductive.”

                • Chasening A Shreve

                  More clueless than greedy if anything

              • Still Stucky

                I don’t recommend that. I recommend keeping things in healthy perspective. As a KNicks fan I can be dissatisfied with James Dolan, but I’m not going to let it poison me.

                Healthy criticism is fine and enjoyable to read. Calling Hal greedy is hypocrisy.

            • Now Batting

              So Hal is going to be the owner forever, even outliving the Yankees brand. If you don’t like it find something else. I recall James Dolan saying something similar in a written letter recently.

          • Still Stucky

            Not when it involves being perpetually bitter, no.

            That defeats the purpose, literally.

          • Havok9120

            It’s one thing to be a lifelong fan of something and to love it intensely.

            It is quite another to let one’s source of entertainment become dominated by agitated complaints about something completely outside our control.

            • Now Batting

              Try marriage.

              • Havok9120

                If sports and marriage are on the same level for someone, there may be a deeper problem.

                • Now Batting

                  Joke

                  • Havok9120

                    Mine too. I probably should’ve added a :P

                    Sorry if it came off as rude.

                • Now Batting

                  Joke

            • Now Batting

              Try marriage.

          • Havok9120

            It’s one thing to be a lifelong fan of something and to love it intensely.

            It is quite another to let one’s source of entertainment become dominated by agitated complaints about something completely outside our control.

        • Now Batting

          You can’t understand people have invested their entire lives in the Yankees and don’t want to find an alternative?

        • Chasening A Shreve

          Ummm..welcome to the life of a sports fan bud

          • Still Stucky

            And Hal’s is a world of corporate margins.

          • Still Stucky

            And Hal’s is a world of corporate margins.

        • Chasening A Shreve

          Ummm..welcome to the life of a sports fan bud

        • The Original Drew

          Hal Steinbrenner is that you?

      • SweetSpot

        They had to make those moves because they failed developing their own players and are now paying the price for A-Rod, Sabathia and Tex’s contracts. And the point about a billionaire caring more about profits than winning is pure bullshit. Hal committed to almost a half a billion in free agent contracts last year. Plus almost $30 million in international deals blowing every other team out of the water and another $100 million this off season and a $220 million payroll the second highest in baseball.

        • The Original Drew

          But their spending is not relative to their revenue stream. They have never been richer in the history of the franchise and NOW is when they want to scale back payroll? Every other team in baseball is taking that extra money and reinvesting it into the team. The Yankees are taking that money and putting it into their pocketsz It’s such a cop out for him to recite what they would have spent on Moncada and last offseason., it’s completely irrelevant.

          • SweetSpot

            Here we go again with the revenue canard. You do not know what their revenues are and please don’t quite Forbe’s guesstimate. Even if you did know, without also knowing what their cost of doing business is – revenue numbers are meaningless. And what do you call “extra” money?

            • The Original Drew

              So don’t use facts? I am confused. TV deals, growth in MLB, and growth from the previous year? You don’t think the Yankees became less popular last year did you? I don’t know the exact numbers of the Yankees books, but you don’t either so the argument you are making is flawed. Just because you think the Yankees revenues are smaller than I think they are, doesn’t make you right. I just see a trend through out major league baseball. Payrolls of all the other teams are rising, and the Yankees are staying the same. So the richest most popular franchise isn’t generating as much revenue as the Royals? That doesn’t make any sense.

              • SweetSpot

                I don’t know what they are, that’s the point Drew. Neither does anyone else. I don’t believe Forbes but if you want to, they said the Yankees lost money. So, which is it?

  • Chasening A Shreve

    Once the Mets get better, which isn’t really far fetched now. What happens then? you can throw this out the window and watch yet again as Hal changes course with no long term planning

    • Still Stucky

      So you were born in the 90s and didn’t live through the 80s, eh?

      • Chasening A Shreve

        This team is probably in the worst shape they have been since the 80s. Mediocre talent on the main roster, and mediocre talent in the minors

        • Still Stucky

          You seem to have a habit of replying with non sequitiors.

          The Yankees ceded NY to the Mets in the 80s. They won it back by being better in the 90s. No permanent damage is being done. Each team will produce positive revenue if they win.

          it’s that simple.

          The fortunes of the Mets and Yankees are independent of one another.

          • Havok9120

            He’s on his newest screen name. This is his style.

            • Chasening A Shreve

              Sure, assume I am a troll for going against the grind of everything is rainbows and unicorns in Yankee land.

              • Still Stucky

                YOu’re not going against the grind or the grain. The grains of Yankee fandom is 84 wins is an affront and unless the seasons ends with a parade, somethign is wrong.

                You aren’t just going wit the grain, you ARE the grain.

                • Chasening A Shreve

                  And that is the worst position you can be in, not even a good draft pick, dwindling attendance and ratings show the Yankees aren’t the team anymore. Congrats, 20+ years of .500 seasons.

                  • Still Stucky

                    Thank you for agreeing with you. You’re the grain.

                    You’re commonplace.

                    • Chasening A Shreve

                      Sigh

                    • Still Stucky

                      I know, sorry I had to be the one to tell you.

                    • Chasening A Shreve

                      Enjoy having Scott run laps around you

                    • Still Stucky

                      If you mean running in circles, thank you.

                    • Chasening A Shreve

                      Enjoy having Scott run laps around you

                    • Still Stucky

                      I know, sorry I had to be the one to tell you.

                    • Chasening A Shreve

                      Sigh

                  • Still Stucky

                    Thank you for agreeing with you. You’re the grain.

                    You’re commonplace.

                • Chasening A Shreve

                  And that is the worst position you can be in, not even a good draft pick, dwindling attendance and ratings show the Yankees aren’t the team anymore. Congrats, 20+ years of .500 seasons.

              • Still Stucky

                YOu’re not going against the grind or the grain. The grains of Yankee fandom is 84 wins is an affront and unless the seasons ends with a parade, somethign is wrong.

                You aren’t just going wit the grain, you ARE the grain.

              • Havok9120

                Yeah. That’s why I’m assuming that. Sure.

                Not that you’re using a handle that once belonged to someone else. Not that you’re a brand new account that seems to know the lay of the community. Not that you have a writing style similar one or more of our serial account switchers. Not that all you’ve done is insist that the team and organization are doomed, with nary a silver lining to report.

                And surely not because this handle appeared shortly after the latest iteration of another frequent troll was banned.

              • Havok9120

                Yeah. That’s why I’m assuming that. Sure.

                Not that you’re using a handle that once belonged to someone else. Not that you’re a brand new account that seems to know the lay of the community. Not that you have a writing style similar one or more of our serial account switchers. Not that all you’ve done is insist that the team and organization are doomed, with nary a silver lining to report.

                And surely not because this handle appeared shortly after the latest iteration of another frequent troll was banned.

          • Havok9120

            He’s on his newest screen name. This is his style.

        • Still Stucky

          You seem to have a habit of replying with non sequitiors.

          The Yankees ceded NY to the Mets in the 80s. They won it back by being better in the 90s. No permanent damage is being done. Each team will produce positive revenue if they win.

          it’s that simple.

          The fortunes of the Mets and Yankees are independent of one another.

        • SweetSpot

          Draft and develop better or lose. Simple.

        • SweetSpot

          Draft and develop better or lose. Simple.

        • Dalek Jeter

          Get a job, BGT.

      • Chasening A Shreve

        This team is probably in the worst shape they have been since the 80s. Mediocre talent on the main roster, and mediocre talent in the minors

      • ScottinSJ

        You obviously don’t recall that the Yankees had many good years in the 80s, despite a paucity of capable pitching. It was only at the very end of the decade and the early 90s that they were truly awful.

        • Still Stucky

          not after 1982.

          • ScottinSJ

            LOL You’re not very good at this, are you? After 1982, when they won only 79 games, here are their win totals for the following years: 91, 87, 97, 90, 89, 85. That’s 1983 through 1988.

            • Still Stucky

              Did they make the postseason?

              I assumed that’s the criteria Yankees fans use. Am I wrong?

              • Now Batting

                Did they have three rounds of playoffs?

                • Still Stucky

                  No, two.

                  • Now Batting

                    Fine I’ll spell it out for you. Making the playoffs pre-strike was immensely more difficult than it is now. Apply the current system to the Yankees season win totals in the ’80s and they make it to the playoffs most of those years.

                    • Still Stucky

                      So just having good years is good enough then? Not necessarily winning a postseason series? Is that what you’re saying

                    • Now Batting

                      What I’m saying is you sounded stupid saying they didn’t have good years after 1982 and now you’re trying to change the discussion.

                    • Still Stucky

                      What I have been saying is 85 and 84 wins isn’t so bad. After an unprecedented streak of success things are a little down. The team is resetting a bit and maybe there is some indecision about how to go about doing that.

                      The consensus seems to be, however, that is unacceptable. I think this lacks perspective.

                      In context, what I replied to above is the FEAR the Yankees are going to cede NY to the Mets. What I wrote (accurately) was during those years you cite, the Yankees were indeed eclipsed by the Mets, specifically during the years 1986-88.

                    • Chasening A Shreve

                      It is bad, that is the worst spot you can be. Does world series or bust not ring a tune anymore? what happened to that? we accept crap now?

                    • Still Stucky

                      “Does world series or bust not ring a tune anymore”

                      Never did.

                      Was always a idiotic platitude people fell for.

                    • Still Stucky

                      So just having good years is good enough then? Not necessarily winning a postseason series? Is that what you’re saying

                  • Now Batting

                    Fine I’ll spell it out for you. Making the playoffs pre-strike was immensely more difficult than it is now. Apply the current system to the Yankees season win totals in the ’80s and they make it to the playoffs most of those years.

                • Still Stucky

                  No, two.

              • Now Batting

                Did they have three rounds of playoffs?

              • ScottinSJ

                I think you don’t know that much, frankly, but it’s still great to have you here.

                • Still Stucky

                  Oh, we’re playing dodgeball?

                  Let me get my sneakers.

                • Still Stucky

                  Oh, we’re playing dodgeball?

                  Let me get my sneakers.

              • ScottinSJ

                I think you don’t know that much, frankly, but it’s still great to have you here.

          • ScottinSJ

            LOL You’re not very good at this, are you? After 1982, when they won only 79 games, here are their win totals for the following years: 91, 87, 97, 90, 89, 85. That’s 1983 through 1988.

        • Still Stucky

          not after 1982.

      • ScottinSJ

        You obviously don’t recall that the Yankees had many good years in the 80s, despite a paucity of capable pitching. It was only at the very end of the decade and the early 90s that they were truly awful.

    • RetroRob

      Actually, the Mets getting better would be a good thing for the Yankees.

      • Macho Man “Randy Levine”

        No, because Hal obviously isn’t George and it wouldn’t annoy every fiber of Hal’s being if the Mets started dominating the back pages again.

        Duh.

  • blake

    Didi,

    Can you repost your list from a few weeks back or at least the parts pertaining to Hal? Because that sums it all up

  • Moncada’s Codpiece

    I think this is a plot by Hal to drive fans away, so that he could justify literally all the spendings, leading to more profits!

    http://2.bp.blogspot.com/-RKZCABt1k0Y/VOtR9fGDEiI/AAAAAAAAAKo/cUcSVQPiTOc/s1600/Hal.jpg
    http://bronxbaseballdaily.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/03/HANK-STEINBRENNER-MAKES-IT-RAIN.jpg

  • HoopDreams

    Apparently we have accountants and conspiracy theorists on RAB.

    • Havok9120

      We have experts in every field on here. Doctors, lawyers, Indian chiefs, researchers, statisticians, dietary experts, cardholding members of the tinfoil hat brigade, and even one guy that says he’s a brain surgeon.

      Which I used to make fun of more until I realized that I was one of the resident history experts, and had no way to prove that over an anonymous forum.

      • Now Batting

        Judge on the content of a post and to hell with the alleged background of the poster.

        • Havok9120

          That’s the idea, yep. That’s why I’ve never understood why so many people try the “appeal to authority (which is me)” tack.

          Just say what you have to say and leave it there.

        • Havok9120

          That’s the idea, yep. That’s why I’ve never understood why so many people try the “appeal to authority (which is me)” tack.

          Just say what you have to say and leave it there.

      • Now Batting

        Judge on the content of a post and to hell with the alleged background of the poster.

      • Jorge Steinbrenner

        GUILTY!!!

      • Jorge Steinbrenner

        GUILTY!!!

      • HoopDreams

        All of whom, live in their mothers basement

        • Moncada’s Codpiece
          • Havok9120

            Really though. I mean, I’ve agreed to move back in with my parents for a bit following May, but I won’t get to live in a basement.

            • Moncada’s Codpiece

              You’re also quite a bit younger than I am, if I remember, so I’ll get you a pass. Not like I hadn’t been there myself, though, it was more in the form of cash helping to pay for my own apartment.

              • Havok9120

                I got bribed into the private sector for 15 months in the town my parents live in. The house is huge (at least for two people and a dog), so there’s no reason for me to be paying for an apartment while I work instead of paying off more of my bloody student loans.

                • Macho Man “Randy Levine”

                  14 years later, still paying off loans for a college I didn’t finish.

                  And will continue to pay them for probably at least another 2 years.

                  • HoopDreams

                    My brother has about 22k in loans

                    • Macho Man “Randy Levine”

                      My statement is a tad misleading. I haven’t been paying off those loans throughout the previous 14 years. In fits and spurts, really.

                      But I do still owe 9 grand. For a school I attended for only 2 years.

                    • Havok9120

                      I wish.

                      Welcome to Tulane.

                    • HoopDreams

                      I here you, Im a junior at Syracuse. Have two younger sisters currently in HS who are already applying. The money is pooring

                    • Moncada’s Codpiece

                      Coming up on seven years after graduation and I still have a bit under $16K to pay off. And will probably add to it with post-graduate studies.

                      Still, I think the path I was on was slightly better than shacking up with my parents in a two-bedroom in North Carolina.

            • HoopDreams

              I still do too, when Im home from school. #brokecollegekid

      • Dalek Jeter

        Shush up, you prove that by your constant incredible knowledge of history, especially relating central Europe in the 12th-15th century.

        • Havok9120

          Eeek. At least get the time period closer to correct.

          I’ll have someone trying to come in and quiz me on the Hundred Years War or the Second Crusade or something.

          • Moncada’s Codpiece

            Name all the participants in the Siege of Acre.

            • Havok9120

              Oh dear God. Without looking it up?

              That isn’t even fair. Way too many nobles from way too many houses. It was the Who’s Who of the late 12th Century.

        • Moncada’s Codpiece

          For Prussia!

    • Havok9120

      We have experts in every field on here. Doctors, lawyers, Indian chiefs, researchers, statisticians, dietary experts, cardholding members of the tinfoil hat brigade, and even one guy that says he’s a brain surgeon.

      Which I used to make fun of more until I realized that I was one of the resident history experts, and had no way to prove that over an anonymous forum.

    • Moncada’s Codpiece

      Also wisecrackers/surprise TJS surgeons like myself.

      • HoopDreams

        And fathers bro

      • HoopDreams

        And fathers bro

    • Moncada’s Codpiece

      Also wisecrackers/surprise TJS surgeons like myself.

    • Macho Man “Randy Levine”

      I’m an accountant.

      Kinda.

      • RetroRob

        I was going to write that there’s a better chance we have accountant and related types here than all the supposed doctors and attorneys, although I do believe there one or two of the latter.

        • Moncada’s Codpiece

          Some are even doctor attorneys. I think it’s automatic membership in the Mafia if true.

          • RetroRob

            The mafia? There’s no such thing.

            Writing to you now from a backroom in the Bada Bing.

            • Moncada’s Codpiece

              Just like how you can’t find a good opium den these days.

        • Macho Man “Randy Levine”

          My job title right now is “staff accountant,” I’ve been doing it for exactly 8 weeks, and it’s mostly consisted of me processing tax returns. I also, unfortunately, have no assurances it’s a permanent job.

          Glamorous, ain’t it?

          • RetroRob

            We all must start somewhere! Accountants have good employability track records.

            • Macho Man “Randy Levine”

              That’s one of the reasons I picked it when I had the chance to go back to school after my call center closed.

  • HoopDreams

    Apparently we have accountants and conspiracy theorists on RAB.

  • Jorge Steinbrenner

    There is some shady screen name shit going on here which is extremely not cool. I’ll just leave it at that.

    Easily the worst of the RAB comment section below, which is why I would have rather read a write-up on just about any other topic. Really. Jeff Pentland’s sperm count, in graph form, would have been better.

    • HoopDreams

      The bed was made when Hal Steinbrenners name was uttered in the article title.

      • Havok9120

        Every single time, too.

      • Havok9120

        Every single time, too.

    • HoopDreams

      The bed was made when Hal Steinbrenners name was uttered in the article title.

    • Mustang and The 2015 Upsiders

      “There is some shady screen name shit going on here which is extremely not cool. I’ll just leave it at that.”

      I find this a strange statement from you since you support the king of the “shady screen name shit’ game.

      But I do agree on the “extremely not cool” part.

      • Macho Man “Randy Levine”

        “I find this a strange statement from you since you support the king of the “shady screen name shit’ game.”

        How so?

        • Havok9120

          I believe he’s referring to YakaTed.

          • Macho Man “Randy Levine”

            Wait, YakaTed is an actual thing? I thought it was code for BGT or some other troll.

            I guess maybe I should pay more attention to the comments.

            *thinks*

            Nah.

            • Moncada’s Codpiece

              Automatic aneurysm if you do.

            • HoopDreams

              Oh it sure is, just scroll down. It’s real obvious

            • Jorge Steinbrenner

              “Chasening a Shreve,” or whatever, was obviously a tag used by YakaTed below, and is now being used by BGT.

              I just think that’s a bunch of shit, but whatever. I don’t expect many to care.

              Just dump this entire thread in th ocean.

      • Havok9120

        In this case, it isn’t just a new handle. It’s reusing a handle that very clearly belonged to someone else not that long ago.

        But yes, I wish he’d quit with that.

    • Moncada’s Codpiece

      I had something on Pentland’s sperm count correlating to an increase in bedsheet deaths and ice cream murders, but it’s gone forever.

      I’m just amazed at how passionate people can get over someone else’s money.

    • Bertin Lefkovic

      I guess that it is just too much to ask that everybody use their actual name instead of all of these pseudonyms.

  • Jorge Steinbrenner

    There is some shady screen name shit going on here which is extremely not cool. I’ll just leave it at that.

    Easily the worst of the RAB comment section below, which is why I would have rather read a write-up on just about any other topic. Really. Jeff Pentland’s sperm count, in graph form, would have been better.

  • Mustang and The 2015 Upsiders

    “My advice to Hal: stop talking about it. The media is going to ask, I know, but just say you’ve discussed it already and move on. Believe it or not, the fans don’t want to hear the owner talking about reducing payroll in the future, especially coming off back-to-back postseason-less years and with the team hardly a lock for October this year. So Hal, please just keep it to yourself the next few years. You’re the only one in favor of this.”

    I been here since 2008 I have never agree more with anything that Mike written.
    As fan I also don’t want hear it when the team is worth 2.5 billion and prices are ridiculously high.
    So please, please do what you need to do and SHUT THE FUCK UP while your doing it.

  • Mustang and The 2015 Upsiders

    “My advice to Hal: stop talking about it. The media is going to ask, I know, but just say you’ve discussed it already and move on. Believe it or not, the fans don’t want to hear the owner talking about reducing payroll in the future, especially coming off back-to-back postseason-less years and with the team hardly a lock for October this year. So Hal, please just keep it to yourself the next few years. You’re the only one in favor of this.”

    I been here since 2008 I have never agree more with anything that Mike written.
    As fan I also don’t want hear it when the team is worth 2.5 billion and prices are ridiculously high.
    So please, please do what you need to do and SHUT THE FUCK UP while your doing it.

  • TCF16

    Fuck him in his wallet

  • TCF16

    Fuck him in his wallet

  • Dalek Jeter

    Phase 1: Put Foot in Mouth while cutting payroll
    Phase 2: ???
    Phase 3. Profit

    I’m sorry, but I’m bored.

  • Pkyankfan69

    Can’t fault Hal for not wanting to waste money on the stupid luxury tax in an attempt to help the team win… Hank and Hal need that extra money for important things like sweet water jet packs and gold plated Lamborghinis

    • Havok9120

      I wish I still had the video of the guy trying to watch a….Giants (?) game with a water jetpack. That was hilarious.

  • Dan A.

    My big problem with this, is it means we might be shut out of the 2015-16 FA class, which figures to be extremely strong (probably the best in a 3-4 years). They need to sign at least one elite guy from that class. Signing a guy or two is going to bump the payroll to LAD levels and higher, so I’m not sure if it will happen, which is very unfortunate.

    • dickylarue

      We’ve already spent out allowance for next season. But don’t worry, Tex, Arod, Beltran and CC will all come to camp in the best shape of their lives.

  • dickylarue

    The amount of ball washing that goes on on this message board for management and ownership is mind boggling.

    This man inherited the most prestigious and profitable franchise in all of sports. The biggest brand. For him to be clamoring to pull that 189 shit again is unbelievable. He’s basically blaming his minor leagues and major leagues at the same time for not being perfect. Think about that for a second. Because the minors didn’t give him more low cost Mo’s & Jeter’s he’s upset. Because the majors gave him players who declined he’s upset. So he’s closing the checkbook, taking his ball and going home until he can stop paying taxes.

    He’s worse than his old man. Far worse. This is a spoiled entitled twat of a man who won the genetic lottery and shows no realization of that.

    The game is flush with money. More teams are spending and the Dauphin wants to spend less while still charging the most in the largest market?

    He’ll make Wilpon look like Daddy Warbucks before all is said and done.

    • SweetSpot

      The sense of entitlement of some Yankee fans is equally mind boggling. No one would believe this. A $230 million payroll, outspending everyone in the international market last July plus another $100 million this past winter — and he’s accused of spending less. Unbelievable.

      • dickylarue

        Question sport – Do you use a loofah or your bare hands when you wash Hal’s balls?

        • SweetSpot

          Question for you, do you manage to slop down the jello yourself or does someone assist you. What facts I just posted backs up your contention that Hal spends less? Hmmm?

          • The Original Drew

            The actual fact that MLB and the Yankees have never been more flush with cash and that payroll has stayed the same, while almost every other team outside of the Mets are taking that extra money and reinvesting it into the team.

            • SweetSpot

              The Yankees payroll is the second highest in baseball plus they spent almost $30 million in the international market.

              • dickylarue

                And they’ve missed the post season 2 seasons in a row while the owner publicly laments spending that much to fix what’s broken and wants to spend significantly less in the future.

                • SweetSpot

                  OK, so did the miss the post season last year because they added a half billion in free agent contracts or not?

                  • dickylarue

                    They missed the post season last year because they got the franchise in a situation where they had to overspend to fill holes they chose not to adequately address over the years trying to win their 189 game.

                    The spending spree last year was a direct result of poor planning and a rapid change in direction from a plan they had in place for years.

                    • SweetSpot

                      So it wasn’t Hal being cheap or not spending then – it was poor planning and a change in direction.

                    • dickylarue

                      If he hadn’t been cheap the prior seasons and tried for 189 and kept supplementing the talent with players who wanted more than a 1 year deal, he would never had to have the spending spree in the first place. His penny pinching, shooting for 189, is what caused the spree. So he spent in a panic to win back fans rather than strategically build the team year after year while he chased payroll slashing like it was a championship that he eventually lost in the bottom of the 9th when he gave up on 189.

          • Now Batting

            There’s this thing called inflation.

            • Moncada’s Codpiece

              Of BALLS!!!
              I have nothing to add here. I think I can safely say the debate has gone downhill when we’re talking about jello rubs and ball washing.

            • SweetSpot

              Which has been non-existent for years now.

              • Now Batting

                Seriously wtf are you talking about. Payroll inflation is rampant in baseball because teams are making more money than ever. The Yankees payroll has been more or less static for over a decade.

                • SweetSpot

                  You didn’t qualify it as payroll inflation.

                  • dickylarue

                    Yes, please in the future remember you’re dealing with a nit picking semantics loving savant here who can’t make the jump in what you were talking about.

                    • SweetSpot

                      Different perspective “sport.”

                  • Now Batting

                    I should have realized you especially would assume I was referring to the Federal Reserve’s core inflation index on a Yankees blog.

                    • SweetSpot

                      I assume nothing. You said what you said. Plus, I don’t accept the premise. Shields wound up getting far less than projected as did others.

                    • Now Batting

                      From one of Mike’s posts. ~$70 million to $110 million since 2005. That’s over a 50% increase. If you don’t accept the premise then take your blinders off.

                    • SweetSpot

                      Look how much more they spend. Why is evening off a bad thing? Why is a budget and financial restraint a bad thing?

                    • Now Batting

                      Because it hurts the product on the field. I’m not rooting for the Yankees to win the World Series of resource allocation.

                    • SweetSpot

                      Why can’t the Yankees compete with a payroll that’s more or less close to what others spend. It won’t be mind you; they will always be right at or near the top when it comes to spending.

                    • Now Batting

                      Because their the most valuable sports brand in North America in the largest market in a cutthroat competition every year against 29 other teams to win a championship.

                    • Basil

                      In their glory years, going back to the 1920s and since: have the Yankees always been viewed as just one of the guys when it comes to spending?

                    • Still Stucky

                      So what are you rooting for? The Yankees to “win” the World Series between November through January by every and any means necessary?

                    • Now Batting

                      I won’t be jumping up and down smiling ear to ear like after the 2009 World Series if they come in under the luxury tax threshold.

                    • Still Stucky

                      I think I asked a fair, relevant question.

                      Isn’t there a reason sprinters run the same distance? Golfers tee-off from the same tie and can only used approved equipment?

                      I’m really asking. Isnt the essence of sports winning ON a somewhat even playing field?

                      You say you’re not a fan of coming under the luxury tax threshold and fair enough. But conversely, aren’t you in fact arguing a fan of spending?

                      What is the fun of winning monopoly if you’re given Boardwalk and Park Place. What’s the thrill of winning a 100 meter dash of you only have to run 80 of them?

                      I’m not suggesting spending $300 is against the rules. It is not. Yankees would be well within their rights and the rules to buy a championship.

                      The appeal of it is genuinely lost on me, however.

                      Why play the reason if the game is won in December.

                      A 6-month long coronation?

                    • Bertin Lefkovic

                      The fun is in watching your team pitch really well, hit really well, and field really well. Seems simple enough to me.

                    • Now Batting

                      The players still have to play and win the games, comrade.

                    • Mustang and The 2015 Upsiders

                      Because they have shit load more money everyone else.
                      Ok Maybe when comes to Lester, but not when comes to guys like Moncada!

                    • SweetSpot

                      Agree about Moncada. That was a unique opportunity. I don’t think that was about the money alone – they didn’t think the risk was worth more. I would have taken it.

                    • SweetSpot

                      Yet, the Yankees still spend significantly more than almost every other team except the Dodgers. Why can’t the Yankees compete in this environment. They spend too much in the past – they are coming back down to earth.

                  • Basil

                    He didn’t need to, since “payroll inflation,” as mentioned in the Axisa post, is the context here.

        • UnKnown

          BWHAHAHAHAHA

      • Mustang and The 2015 Upsiders

        The sense of entitlement does come when the the team you follow over chargers you for just about everything and has a 2.5 billion net worth.
        If I’m buying a Porsche I expect Pirelli tires not Geostar.

        • SweetSpot

          Net worth has nothing to do with it. That valuation is a guess and only is real when someone pays that for it if the club is sold. And $230 million in payroll is not a Porsche?

          • Mustang and The 2015 Upsiders

            You want to do this dance with me again really?
            Because the last time you step off the floor when i popped with Forbes annual revenues gains for the Yankees.

            I know, know according to you know really knows the numbers.

            • dickylarue

              It’s all an illusion! An illusion I say!

            • The Original Drew

              Don’t let your facts get in the way of his narrative!

            • SweetSpot

              I have no idea what the numbers are and neither do you. But since you embrace Forbes, which I don’t, they contend the Yankees lost money last year. So, do you believe that?

              • Mustang and The 2015 Upsiders

                First you have said that you think the Yankees are losing money hand over fist where you got that idea i just don’t know.

                Then you went on about something about lost revenue int the 2000’s.

                I showed you this;

                http://www.statista.com/statistics/196673/revenue-of-the-new-york-yankees-since-2006/

                Here more for Forbes:

                http://www.forbes.com/sites/mikeozanian/2014/03/26/baseball-team-values-2014-led-by-new-york-yankees-at-2-5-billion/

                “Even after kicking in $95 million towards the league’s 34% local revenue sharing pool and their $64 million PILOT bond payments for Yankee Stadium last season, the Bronx Bombers led the league in revenue ($461 million). But there is clearly pressure on the Yankees to regain their form on their diamond: the team finished in fourth place in the AL East last season and missed the postseason for only the second time since 1994. A drop in ticket revenue last season resulted in overall revenue falling by $10 million from 2012, and in November Moody’s lowered their outlook on the bonds from positive to stable, while leaving its investment grade rating unchanged.”

                Please find me the site where Forbes said they lost revenue?
                Find me anything anywhere with creditably that says the Yankees lost overall revenue.

                • SweetSpot

                  I never said they were losing money hand over fist. Look at Forbes Yankee valuation figures.

                  • Mustang and The 2015 Upsiders

                    Yea, you did. Wasn’t here, but you have made that exact comment in the past. I can’t begin to know how to find it so we leave at that.
                    Just find the site paste it here as I have done with my FACTS.

                    • SweetSpot

                      Sorry that is a lie. I never said that. I have said over and over I have no idea what the Yankee books show and neither does anyone else. I will consider it an innocent mistake on your part.

                    • Mustang and The 2015 Upsiders

                      No it wasn’t but we will leave at that because I can see by this comment section that your think on this subject is a bit off let just say.

                    • SweetSpot

                      Not to me. Here’s my position clearly stated and consistent with everything else I have written. Hal is not cheap the Yankees spend more money than any other team except the Dodgers. The Yankees are a private corporation and no one has seen their books. Forbes is conjecture but they are a qualified respected financial news organization. According to them, the Yankees lost $9.1 million last year.

                • SweetSpot

                  I didn’t say lost revenue. I said Forbes suggested a net loss. Revenue minus operating expenses.

                  • Mustang and The 2015 Upsiders

                    Again reference PLEASE!!!!

                    The only thing I think you maybe referring to is this:

                    http://www.forbes.com/mlb-valuations/

                    Which states a 9.1MM Operating Income loss but that against a 461MM in total revenue!

                    They walking of 451.9MM

                    • SweetSpot

                      That’s correct. I don’t accept Forbes figures but IF YOU DO. These numbers show a $9.1 million loss on revenues of $461 million. Meaning operating costs were $470 million.

                    • Mustang and The 2015 Upsiders

                      What are you taking about???!!!!

                      Revenue is money they made $461 total they lost $9.1 operating costs that’s taken off the $461 not add to $461.

                      The Yankees team loss $9.1MM operating but the Yankees organization (YES, MLB TV shares,etc.) made over 451 million.

              • Mustang and The 2015 Upsiders

                Btw way I hope you realize that there is a difference between ticket revenue and overall revenue .

                • SweetSpot

                  Sure. Ticket revenue is only part of what makes payroll.

        • Still Stucky

          Don’t pay it.

          If you buy a Porche with Geostars, that’s on you.

          • Mustang and The 2015 Upsiders

            Agree 100%.

            • Still Stucky

              There you go.

              Now make the connection. Do you know what you REALLY pay premiums prices for?

              The sense of entitlement. THAT’s the product you want to own. The IDEA that being a Yankee fans is more special. That you deserve it more and have higher standards than other fans.

              It isn’t about winning games, it’s about self-image.

              Kind of f-ing twisted at the end of the day, isn’t it?

              • Mustang and The 2015 Upsiders

                Bottom line- the guy who trying to sell me the Porsche with Geostar tires is trying to pocket a few 100 dollars on the sale $100,000 car.
                And that all Hal doing!
                Its up to me or any fan if we want buy into that after years
                of driving on Pirelli.

                • Still Stucky

                  And I’d add that a good majority of people driving around in Porche’s are doing so because it makes them feel good about themselves to drive around in a Porshe, and not because of it’s handling or acceleration, which most people will never take anywhere close to full advantage of.

      • Bertin Lefkovic

        I will take a sense of entitlement over ball-washing (unless it is my schwedy balls being washed) any day.

    • Moncada’s Codpiece

      I would say there are a lot of commenters here that are upset the minor league system hasn’t been serving up Riveras and Jeters. Maybe Hal is one of them. Same for the veterans.

      It would seem odd that there’s agreement up until the point of whether to double down on spending or not. Where would the spending be if not on more likely declining veterans? Internationally, yes, but until the Moncada fiasco, the Yankees by and large did that.

      I find this departure between Steinbrenner and the previously mentioned commentariat fascinating, if only for a moment.

    • Guest

      The white knighting of the front office that occurs here is frightening.

      • dickylarue

        It’s got to be a joke, right? Like it’s all one guy in a room with six computers on the Yankees payroll. This is like black ops government level propaganda in here.

        • Chasening A Shreve

          Low 80 win seasons with no playoff appearances are apparently okay. It’s been a long last 3 years

          • Macho Man “Randy Levine”

            So many song lyrics I could direct at you.

        • Still Stucky

          What’s most alarming is the lack of reading comprehension. As a reader with an appropriate adult skill level I can tell you I haven’t read much in the way of anyone defending Hal’s executive acumen.

          I for one have simply said calling him greedy is hypocritical, which again, if you possess moderate reading comprehension skills, isn’t even denying he’s greedy.

          But sure, go ahead, make up stuff.

    • RetroRob

      I agree regarding Hal’s belt tightening and why that’s bad. I’m not sure I agree there’s much ball washing going on here. There’s a few, which causes a debate, but I think most Yankees fans absolutely want the Yankees to use their financial advantage and are not happy with Hal’s approach.

      • The Original Drew

        Why anyone is totally okay and even advocating to the belt tightening when the franchise and baseball is beyond my comprehension.

      • Pete22

        I am Ok with the ball washers, I know what they are. Its those who don’t express their unhappiness and are just so accepting that I don’t get. Its their money Hals pocketing and forcing them to watch a mediocre team and watch other teams in the post season.

  • dkidd

    i can go to dodger stadium at sit in the top deck behind home plate with a gorgeous view of chavez ravine for…

    $12

    not sure what this has to do with the luxury tax

    hal sucks!

    *runs from room

    • dickylarue

      The Tigers have seats in the OF where you get a slice of pizza and a pepsi for $8 with your ticket. If you bring a $20 to the game with you, you can buy a house with the change.

      • dkidd

        anyone making a go of it in that city deserves a good deal at the ballpark

        • Pete22

          They all work for Kmart

  • calripyankee

    If it means young players like Judge, Bird, Refsnyder, Severino, Murphy, Mitchell, Warren, Pirela, Cave, Jagielo etc. are gonna get a serious look and chance, I m for it.. If it means more bottom of the barrel cheap signings like Ichiro, Ryan, V Wells, T Hafner, B Roberts, K Johnson, Capuano etc.. I will be a very disgruntled fan..

  • Andrew Zercie

    “…the Yankees have a distinct advantage over the rest of the league because of their market, and focusing on getting under the luxury tax threshold is essentially tossing that advantage aside and leveling the playing field. The other 29 teams should send Hal a nice thank you note for that.”

    The combination of the luxury tax, revenue sharing, and the influx of new revenue streams have chipped away at the Yankees’ market advantage as well. There was a time when the Yankees crossed the $200M payroll mark while all other 20 teams wouldn’t cross $110M. The Yankees have stayed around $200M in the decade since then while everyone else has caught up and some (the Dodgers) have passed them.

    Now, this doesn’t mean that payroll is everything, but it helps cover up mistakes (bad contracts, player development failures, injuries, etc.), and the Yankees were the best at throwing their financial weight around. Now? They’re just another baseball team.

    I think the sentiment of spending less but having better quality is a great idea in theory, but it requires more than talk. The Yankees have more interesting guys in the minors than they’ve had in some time, and I like the direction they’ve taken at the ML level this season (defense, bullpen, banking on comebacks/health), but if they’re actually in the hunt this season and don’t pull the trigger on a trade to improve the team at mid-season because of luxury tax concerns, that will be more disappointing than anything Hal Steinbrenner is saying here in March.

  • Still Stucky

    http://www.cnn.com/2015/03/19/opinions/ganim-fear-fan-base/index.html

    Make the connections…

    “Psychologists tell me that’s because this is rooted in something selfish, not selfless. Fans who behave so terribly do it because they want desperately to feel like they are a part of something that they can brag about. Something that makes them look better.”

    “Wann told me it’s a desperate attempt to protect something extremely important to them: the team brand.

    “‘Their fandom is very central to their identity, and we defend those things central to our identity even in the face of logic,’ he said.”

    • dickylarue

      Narcissistic personality disorder is a mental disorder in which people have an inflated sense of their own importance, a deep need for admiration and a lack of empathy for others. But behind this mask of ultraconfidence lies a fragile self-esteem that’s vulnerable to the slightest criticism.

      A narcissistic personality disorder causes problems in many areas of life, such as relationships, work, school or financial affairs. You may be generally unhappy and disappointed when you’re not given the special favors or admiration you believe you deserve. Others may not enjoy being around you, and you may find your relationships unfulfilling.

      • Still Stucky

        Yup, describes a lot of fans of historically successful franchises like the Cowboys, Celtics, Yankees, and Duke.

        Thank you.

        • dickylarue

          Hey, I’m just here to help. After all, “Narcissistic personality disorder treatment is centered around talk therapy (psychotherapy).”

          • Still Stucky

            Exactly, so we should all talk it out together.

            “We’re just fans of a baseball team. There is nothing special about me, us or about being a Yankee fan”

    • dkidd

      make what connection?

      not cheering when your team’s owner cuts payroll = covering up sexual assault?

      • dickylarue

        Shhh dkidd. Quiet. We’re about to make a breakthrough here.

        Stucky? It’s not your fault. It’s not your fault.

      • Still Stucky

        No, the part I took care to specufically excerpt.

        • dkidd

          the problem with any thread involving hal and the luxury tax is it devolves into an argument over the “best way” to be a fan

          • Still Stucky

            Indeed… but facts are facts. We want Hal to spend for selfish, greedy reasons. For no other purpose than our own personal satisfaction.

            We should all be able to agree on that because it happens to be indisputable.

            And I include myself in that, just for the record.

            • dkidd

              i’m guilty for sure, but I disagree with your “personal satisfaction” wording

              for me, the best part of sports fandom is feeling like part of a community. when the yankees win, i’m happy for everyone on this board, not just me

  • gageagainstthemachine

    #halischeap #cashmanfailed #moncadaischristarisen #justgiveusanothertelevisedspringtraininggamesowedonthavetorehashthisalloveragain

  • blake

    When the game isn’t televised and There is a post about Hal then it’s bound to get ugly

    • RetroRob

      The most important question of the day: Did A-Rod hit the HR off of Rondon’s fastball? I don’t think he’s capable of throwing under 95. Or was it some off speed pitch he’s working on?

      • http://cnn.com/ Magic Rat

        Alex Rodriguez homered off Bruce Rondon in the Yankees’ 11-2 drubbing of the Tigers on Friday.
        Getting around on a Rondon fastball — even if it wasn’t quite all of the way around (it was an opposite field homer) — is the most impressive feat of the spring so far for A-Rod. His bat seemed slow at times in his early plate appearances, so making contact against a guy throwing in the high-90s is a good sign.

        • Basil

          How has his bat “seemed slow”? Has his bat speed been measured? Judging from a tv screen seems a pretty dubious method of assessing bat speed.

          • http://cnn.com/ Magic Rat

            Yeah, don’t know. Copied from RotoWorld

        • RetroRob

          He doesn’t have to get around on it. Most players aren’t going to pull a high 90s or possibly even triple digit fastball. He’s always had good power to the opposite field. If he drove a good fastball out to any part of the field that’s significant. Rondon is a pure-gas pitcher.

          My very amateur assessment of A-Rod has been his plate discipline remains intact, but his timing has been off, but slowly improving every game. Has been able to hit the other way effectively, but I haven’t seen him square up velocity, so this would be encouraging.

          • Bertin Lefkovic

            Being a right-handed batter with declining bat speed in Yankee Stadium, hitting to the opposite field as much as possible is probably the way to go for A-Rod. It might also benefit Tex if he gave up batting left-handed.

      • blake

        Alex doesn’t need to catch up to 95 mph straight up…..because he’s gonna guess a lot ….he’s good at it

  • Pete22

    Boo, boo, boo!

    But hey, no surprise. Hals first priority has been reducing payroll since he took over full control, and he has done that by keeping it flat and letting payroll inflation eat at the Yankees financial advantage. Sooner or later the LT threshold will increase enough to get him under.

    Sons always want to do better than their Dad. His Dad won a boat load of championships, but there is a perception he spent his way to these championships, which is not true except for 2009. Hal only seems to want to win if he can do it on a budget.

    I don’t rule out that there is a bit of collusion at play as well, with large market teams being pressured by other teams in the legal collective to restrain spending for the good of the game. Perhaps there is a carrot bing dangled in front of Hal we don’t know about, like a reduced revenue sharing burden. People forget that his daddy went along with the collusion of the 80’s.

  • Evan3457

    Is it possible that Hal is trying to position himself as a Wellington Mara, in that he could try to maintain the Yankees’ status as the Daddy Warbucks of MLB, but isn’t going to “for the good of the sport”?

  • Y’s Guy

    Shut up, Haircut!

  • cashmoney

    Got np with it, draft better, sign fa wiser, but ny can’t be a mediocre team and have a 230 payroll after 17,that’s all.

  • cashmoney

    Give cash a clean slate, see what he can do with what most likely be a LT of 210 range. Put up or shut up.

  • dkidd

    open the pod bay doors, hal

    i’m sorry, dave. i’m afraid i can’t do that

  • Y’s Guy

    Happy Spring to everyone in the Eastern Time Zone!

    • Bertin Lefkovic

      What is this Spring of which you speak?

  • RetroRob

    Just an alternative thought, and it’s one I don’t believe, but can’t 100% discount so I’ll throw it out. With the CBA upcoming, one of the biggest battles is supposedly going to center around the percentage of money the players are now making as revenues skyrocket. Some have suggested the MLBPA will request a substantial increase in the luxury tax threshold along with other changes, including a DH in the NL, and in return they’ll grant an international draft. Could Hal be purposely encouraging and supporting this line of thinking, which will help the Yankees, by publicly stating the Yankees intent to get below the threshold? He wants a much higher threshold.

    • Dan A.

      I’d love it if that’s true, but Hal doesn’t strike me as very diabolical. Hank on the other hand . . .

      • RetroRob

        …and that is one reason I don’t believe it, since it would indicate a much more complex approach than I’ve seen from him to date.

        • cashmoney

          Rob I think you are overthinking on hal’s thought process, now they need to demonstrate they can win under LT going forward. The problem is they want to sell a championship team even when it’s not. Look 13 os, can anyone truly say this team would not been better off in just signing tanaka, save 3 picks and got under the cap.

          • RetroRob

            I don’t think I’m overthinking it since I don’t believe that’s what he’s doing, but just tossing it out for discussion since every other theme has been beaten to death below!

            • cashmoney

              Gotcha. You are a smart guy, I should read more carefully.

              • RetroRob

                Not sure how smart, but sometimes I’ll just toss ideas out for consideration, even being contrarian, but not without thought.

        • dave_8

          Sometimes a cigar is just a cigar.

    • Havok9120

      I was thinking earlier about how all this talk of staying under the threshold is probably an easy way to score points with the League and with and smaller market owners as we get toward “time to start talking about the CBA” time.

      But there’s really no way to know. *shrug*

    • Bertin Lefkovic

      If I thought that Hal was capable of such Machiavellian brilliance, I would totally buy that idea, but I don’t think that he is, so I won’t.

    • cashmoney

      that might be a byproduct, but sorry I don’t buy that’s hal thought process… what they have done and said reflects hal wants no part of LT. Short of him hanging a sign in front of him.

    • Pete22

      If you look at the LT threshold, it has not kept up pace with revenue inflation since the last CBA, not even close. It used to increase yearly and at a faster rate. Percentage of revenue spent on payroll have dropped from 54% at the turn of the century to 44% in 2014. Players need to make up some ground but MLBPA and the players are complacent

      Increasing the LT threshold would be the same as increasing the income tax threshold, a reduction in tax. Anyone who pays tax is always in favor of that. Hal certainly would be. The problem for MLB as a collective, is only 3 teams pay any tax, and raising the threshold could boost salary inflation which increased 8% last year, so MLB would like to keep the LT threshold from being raised too much

      • RetroRob

        I agree with that, and I believe the MLBPA was fine with it in recent CBA negotiations. Lots of money to go around so not a battle to be fought on that day. Yet it’s clear that revenues have spiked substantially in just the last few years, with a smaller percentage of the pie now going to the players. The LT threshold has been largely irrelevant since the Yankees were the only team sitting above it. Yet now a second team has smashed past it to an even greater degree, while the Yankees have been trying to get below it. Meanwhile, other teams that approach it immediately retreat from it, and that’s happening more frequently now. That’s why I’ve maintained that MLB has instituted a cap, but it’s simply a soft cap, but it’s one that’s becoming increasingly effective as the LT threshold drags.

        The owners desperately want an international draft. I think it’s one of the worst things that can happen related to the expansion of MLB, but that’s an entirely different issue. I don’t believe the MLBPA gives one damn about the international draft but they know the owners want it so they will use it to negotiate and get what they want, which is a greater piece of the revenue pie. They also know Manfred is not going to want a strike on his first time through this process as Commissioner, so I believe they are in the driver’s seat. Now the question is what are they going to ask for?

    • Deep Thoughts

      It would be a remarkable and out-of-character bluff for Hank to avow “sensible spending” and feign helpless resigned acceptance of another low LT threshold, with the secret goal regaining and applying Yankee financial leverage by blowing away the next threshold with other teams unwilling to do so.

      I daresay part of why the other owners resented George at first is because he wouldn’t get with the salary collusion program (at least until much later in the 80s). There is no doubt Bud and the other owners stacked the deck against the Yankees to stem the rising tide of salaries, and it worked until the big RSN deals came along.

      I wish your alternative thought (i.e. Hal thinks like his dad did and sees overspending as a competitive advantage) were so, but I really really doubt it.

  • Y’s Guy

    That haircut looks at least as stupid as daddy’s turtleneck with blazer look (that lasted like 20 years)

    • Dan A.

      You watch your mouth. That look was a classic!

    • Havok9120

      Have you ever seen The Bronx is Burning? Some of the outfits they put Oliver Platt in for that are just hilarious.

  • LazerTown

    I don’t necessarily see it as wasted money. Everything costs more in NY, except maybe San Fran. Many typical companies have to pay much higher salaries to employees in NY, except you don’t really see that in baseball. Teams seem to be more on a level playing field, and some players will take slightly less to play in NY(Miller). Start taking away that team that is a constant contender and playing in NY doesn’t seems quite so attractive. You could end up in the long run having to pay more for some players.

    • Havok9120

      That never really came to pass in the 80s and early 90s, did it? I wouldn’t know, but I’ve never heard such a thing.

  • Mustang and The 2015 Upsiders

    Amid Alex Rodriguez Controversy, Yankees Tickets Up 35% From 2014
    http://www.forbes.com/sites/jesselawrence/2015/02/20/amid-alex-rodriguez-controversy-yankees-tickets-up-35-from-2014/

    Good read.
    Alex and the core helping Hal save himself from himself.
    LOL

    • Pete22

      That’s on the secondary market. Many Yankee tickets are actually being sold for 5 dollars some games with MC in April. I think direct ticket prices are flat with last year. Of course, maybe the Yankees are selling unsold tickets on the secondary market and booking the extra revenue elsewhere to avoid revenue sharing

      • LazerTown

        AND……. there is Pete!

        • Havok9120

          The MLB takes a cut. Collusion! PERFIDY!!

          • Pete22

            Its all just standard business practice now, even in industries without anti-trust protection. The war against trusts is over.

  • Farewell Mo and Jeet

    Since he’s not really committed to winning, he should just sell the team.

  • YankeeDJW

    I’m curious how much decreased ticket sales/tv ratings from having a mediocre season and missing the postseason cost the Yankees every year.

    • feztonio

      they’re still the 3rd most valuable franchise after the Cowboys (NFL) and Manchester United (Soccer). i’ve seen articles of “insiders” that estimate the team could spend upwards of 500 million dollars per year on payroll and still at the least break even, if not turn a small profit. the YES network is still a financial juggernaut and the team is even increasing revenues by smashing soccer, NHL, college football, concerts, and other various civil/sports/political events into the stadium on every conceivable off day – just to make even more money on the 283 days there aren’t MLB games in there.

      by getting below 189, if that 500 number is accurate, then they would be putting over 300 million dollars per year into their own pockets, plus all the rent, vending, parking and various fees they get from all the other stadium rentals for those other various events.

      then the team is work a couple billion dollars, plus the value of the stadium and the YES network. the Steinbrenner boys are basically scrooge mcduck swimming in his piles of money.

  • YankeesJunkie

    It is not a commitment to not winning, but rather a re-allocation of spending money. While the Yankees did not sign Moncada, they did wipe out the IFA market this year which if even one player makes an impact or makes the major and performs it easily justify the costs of going all out for one year rather than staying in the rules. This is the shift in MLB as spending tons of money on older players on longer contracts is not proving beneficial. The only long term contract that have worked for the Yankees in the last 15 years is Mussina and A-Rod and CC prior to the extension. The future of success in baseball is young prospects since they are under control for six years and players like Brett Gardner who are consistently good but not great players and extending them until they are 33-35 (think value in Lindgren). Even a contract like Ellsbury after year one does not look spectacular. This team over the next four years has a chance to change its identity from older more expensive players to a younger core with veterans filling secondary roles. The Yankees do not need to spend 260 million dollars but as long as they continue to exploit the younger players and opportunities to sign them then it will put the Yankees in a good situation to win.

    • feztonio

      sure is. it’s a reallocating giant piles of money into Hal and Hank’s pockets. it’s the same reason they’re cramming soccer games, NHL games, college football games, concerts, papal masses, and other various sporting and civil events into the stadium every off day year-round as they possibly can. i bet theyre cursing their father for not putting a dome on the stadium so they could have flea markets and monster truck ralleys all winter long when it’s too cold or snowy outside to do an outdoor event.

      they are in full suck every last nickel out of the team while spending the absolute minimum in order to maximize profits. they’re just going to drain it dry and then sell the rinds for even more billions when they’re done.

      if they’re really smart they’ll small-print some manner of retaining the YES network or some partial ownership of the stadium so they can continue to siphon money off of the team even after they cash in on it’s sale.

  • Mike

    We are disadvantaged with always being in the bottom of the draft because of our success and other teams try to gouge us on trades.

  • Mike

    We are disadvantaged with always being in the bottom of the draft because of our success and other teams try to gouge us on trades.

    • feztonio

      we’re at a disadvantage because sometime around 2006 or so most teams realized – hey why pay some 37 year old former star 18 million to hit .238-13-47, when we can call a similarly skilled 22 year old prospect who will put up a comparable stat line, but for the league minimum! we can save 17.6 million dollars per year, per position.

      a year or two after that these same teams realized, hey instead of watching our prospects sign for mega contracts with other teams when they’re 27 and about to reach their peak production years, why not offer them a fraction of that amount when they’re 24 so we can sign them through all those peak years at a discount!

      a year or two after that teams realized – hey instead of signing a guy for 300 million dollars because he’s about to reach his peak production years, why not develop his replacement prospect, so we can let him walk for free agency and someone else can pay that stupid money, while we just assembly line the next 24 year old kid into the vacated position/rotation slot!

      These three revelations and paradigm shifts in baseball front offices went completely unnoticed by the NY Yankees and Brian Cashman. Cashman has – at least until 2015 completely been disinterested and unable to grasp the prospects are the new way to do things, and signing 36 and 37 year old guys for 30 million dollars a year just so they can be on the DL or putting up barely 35% of their peak production value isn’t going to do anything except tie the team up in massive dead contracts and prevent any meaningful change or improvement.

      the sad thing is even in 2015 when Cashman appears to be moving away from the mega contracts for players and attempting to go younger and to a more prospect valuation mode, it’s not because he finally “gets it”, it’s merely because Hal and Hank want to put much larger wads of cash into their pockets rather than give the NYY a contender.

      • Stan

        It did not go unnoticed until 2015.

        The Yankees were in the midst of 22 year run of +.500 baseball and making the playoffs 18-of those 22 years. You don’t go with youth when you’re trying to win a world series. Experience wins.

        Now I want you to go look at the rosters of the last 10 world series winner.

        Players over 30

        2014 Giants 3 position players and 3 starters

        2013 Red Sox 5 position players 2 starters

        2012 Giants 2 position players and 2 starters

        2011 Cardinals 5 position players and 3 starters

        2010 Giants 5 position players and 2 starters

        2009 Yankees 5 position players and 2 starters

        2008 Phillies 2 position players and 2 starters

        2007 Red Sox 6 position players and 2 starters

        2006 Red Sox 5 postion players and 2 starters

        Only 2 teams won a Wolrd Series title with less than 5 regular players (starting pitchers and position players) in the last 10 years. The 2008 Phillies (who had no starting positional player under the age of 27) and the 2012 Giants (who had only 1 starter under 27)

        You can talk about teams having young players instead of vets all you want, young teams do not as rule win in the post season. And during this 22 year run the Yankees were playoff team almost every year. (and in 2012 a healthy Yankee team would probably still be a playoff team)

        Is the getting under 189M Luxury Tax Threshhold simply a financial manuever? Mostly yes, you need to keep in mind that one way or the other its a business. But once the Yankees get under that number (if really) then the cap hit resets and the Yankees can go back to thier free spending ways. when the Yankees arent paying 2-1 on tax penalties.

        People keep saying if the Yankees put out an inferior product (though again even during the last 2 *bad* years they were still a +.500 team and in playoff contention) that people will stop going to games. That money will be easily offset by the savings they make getting under the cap long term, and once they start spending again those same fans who stopped going will have returned.

        Deal with the fact that the Yankees will have another two maybe three years where they hover in the mid 80s in wins, maybe miss the playoffs for those years, and maybe they are a boring team to watch while they reset. Yankees from 26-64 had a run of 39 +500 seasons and winning 20 World Series. Following that run they had a losing record in 4 of the next 5 years. In 1993 the Yankees started this 22 year run of excellent baseball… before it they suffered through a 4 year run of sub .500 baseball. All teams need to reset now and then. Now is the Yankees turn.

  • Looser Trader FotD™

    Can’t be bothered to read the comments (sorry friends) so I will simply say FUCK YOU, YOU FUCKING FUCK HAL. The “we sort of have a plan but oh never mind it’s not working so we’ll do other stuff but then next time oh never mind we’ll try this again and likely once again field middling teams with BS up and down the roster” shit is getting old. And I’m old (get off my lawn!) I’m also not entirely sober. By which I mean simply not sober.

    Also, Hal, IF YOU’RE GOING TO DO IT, DO IT! DON’T PUSSY FOOT AROUND. Jeez.

  • kikojones

    That last paragraph was gold.

  • feztonio

    so the plan for the Yankees – spend less on the MLB side, while shoe-horning soccer, hockey, college football, concerts and other various events into the stadium on baseball off-days to really maximize income. WTF steinbrenners – you cheap bunch of greedy twats. sell the team please, to someone else that actually wants to win rather than just cash in.

  • Deborah

    It’s a shame Georges kids didn’t inherit their father’s love for the game, the team and winning! They should sell the team to someone who knows the pride of being a Yankee! George in turning over in his grave! Sad…

  • Garry and Lisa

    This is GREAT news as it is always fabulous for fans to hear the owner of the greatest and richest franchise is the history of sport is only interested in putting MORE fan money in his already over-flowing pockets! Charge all you can Hal while spending as little as needed. We will keep coming….maybe.