Dec
22
Now Joba’s starting
ByDespite what Buster Olney hears, Kat O’Brien says that “several people within the Yankee organization” told her that Joba will be in the starting rotation come April. At this point, we’ve heard so much back-and-forth on this issue that neither outcome will be much of a surprise.
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Awww… the fickle heart of a teenage drama queen!
I think they’ll go the Santana route and shuffle him between starts and the bullpen all season
You haven’t heard any “back and forth” on this. You’re just repeating what every reporter who just wants to feel like an insider prints. As far as I’m concerned, the Yankees have been absolutely consistent just far in saying he’ll be in the rotation, and that’s what i expect.
At least Kat admits she “heard” what she did from actual NY Yankees employees as opposed to hearing it from Carl the Memphis fry cook where Buster may well have “heard” his info.
I have no idea where the vitriol against Buster Olney comes from.
He’s one of the top baseball writers/insiders in the business.
Is he wrong at times?
Sure, but he’s right more often than most.
Giuseppe, it’s not vitriol, there is no rancor, it’s not mean spirited and I agree he’s generally the best of the national bunch. In this instance he went with something that appeared to be un-sourced. He led a story with “I heard …” which is a nasty Walter Winchell device: come on I did better than that writing for my high school newspaper. It’s precisely because Buster is so good that he’s catching a little crap for this one. I think he can take it and quite frankly I think he deserves it in this instance.
To give Olney the benefit of the doubt, his sources are probably also team officials. Kat O’Brien’s report is unsourced as well. She doesn’t say with whom she spoke.
Right, but at least her sources are within the Yankees’ organization. No one is asking Buster to give his sources away. He’s great, I love him, we love him, I worship the ground he walks on, he’s a paragon of virtue and the very embodiment of American manhood . Again however “I heard …” seems a notch or two below his usual standard. Think I’ll go drink heavily now.
“Sure, but he’s right more often than most.”
I’m not trying to pick a fight but please let me know what he’s been right about. Seriously, has he broken stories that turned out to be correct?
He was the first member of the media (the day Torre rejected his contract offer) who said Joe Girardi was going to be the new Yankee manager.
Virtually everyone else thought Mattingly was the front-runner from the get-go and Olney said that wasn’t necessarily the case.
More often than not, he’s the guy breaking MLB news on ESPN.
Its all bullshit, no one knows whats gonna happen until it does.
I can’t help but think that people’s “predictions” combined with their “inside scoop” is really just a reflection of what THEY think should happen. Joba in the starting rotation versus the pen is another terrific polarizing topic and gets people talking (passionately) about it.
Every time the topic comes up, a person gets to wax eloquently (or not) on their opinion. Perhaps Olney was bored and wanted to create buzz with a topic he knows creates buzz.
LA Times apologized to Clemens and other players for reporting in 2006 that their names were mentioned in Grimsley’s affidavit. Talk about terrible journalism.
Eddie Guardado as a lefty out of the pen?
Buster Olney is a cool dude. He’s usually on the money when he creates a stir.
I like the idea of Guardado if he comes cheap (say 1 yr/$1M), but I can’t see that happening. We know he’s got the guts and all that intangible stuff to pitch in the big spots, but I’m worried that his stuff might be too far gone to last in the AL East.
Tomorrow he’ll be playing third, we’ll see where he is come spring training. I hope the rotation, but I am not a pitching coach.
i would like to see that just to see him throw one across the diamond at 99 MPH.
Guardado woud have been a good signing out of the pen, but the team seems not to cae about the bullpen. I dont undestand why a team with such a high payoll has such glaing holes —- 1st base (a powe position), no set up man in the pen other than Farnsworth-less fo that matte no midde guys either and no Ace. I just dont understand. I like the youth movement, but I also miss the team that saw a weakness and went out and addessed it in free agency
just imagine Johan in Yankee stadium —keeping lefties from that short potch and getting ighties to hit that change off the back foot with azy fky bals to death vaey.
He is the missing link and IMO makes them them the best team in the AL fo that matter baseball. Unless the Twins ae insistant 0n Kennedy in addition to Hughes, and many repots are to the contray stating the twins would take Horne and a young position playe, I cant undestand the logic behind not taking a 28 year ld pitcher who may be the best in baseball and on his way to a hall of fame career.
Hughes may be great, but Santana aleady is. Its like buying a stock at 20 dollas a shae that you know wil remain between 20-28 dollas versuses buying a stck at 5 dollas that has a 50/50 chance of getting up to 20 dollars. True, if Hughes becomes a stud it is more beneficial to the Yanks, but I would pefer the sue thing
The more this has gone on I understand why they are so protective of these kids because young dominant pitching is so hard to find and there is safety in numbers. Johan does see, like the perfect fit. BUT Im not sure if he is worth two of these kids, and aside from one report by the New York Post, the rumor has the Twins asking for both Hughes in Kennedy.
I have said this before but I think Cashman has to see what Cano can get you. If you can get Santana for Cano and something lower end then I think its the right move. I think the value of an all star second baseman is less than a number one pitcher. I can understand why were so protective of the young pitching. But we know what Cano is going to be. A good hitter (great as a second baseman), an above average fielder (at best), who doesnt take a lot of walks and has moderate power (20-25hr). Second base is not a premium position offensively, its a luxury for them. They can make up the offense down the road through the farm or free agency, and for the immediate future they have aenough offense and could use Alberto at second.
I know Im going to get ripped on this but I think you could get a lot with Robbie.
Robbie was more valuable than Johan last year.
Steve
I understand looking at numbers and win shares Cano had more value. But within the dynamic of the team and the needs they have in the postseason, then Johan has greater value to the Yankees. Considering their rotation and the need they have for someone to not only be dominant but to provide innings (for both the sake of a very shallow and young bullpen and a rotation filled with kids). I dont think Santana is such a necessity, nor do I think the Yankees should trade any of their young arms. But I do think on a team that scored 900+ runs, losing offense at second base for a dominant starter is move they should at least consider making. Especially when lookin at the market and seeing there are short term/affordable solutions at second base in the FA market, unlike the starters and relivers.
I think the whole thing with Cano might have been speculative. The Twins have alot of faith in some 2nd base prospect that they have (I can’t remember his name off the back of my head), and considering his name was never ever mentioned in trade talks, it looks like they have the 2nd baseman of the future they want. They do seem to be looking for other positions though.
Putting Cano in the deal, might not do anything, unless we got their kid from them (which kind of kills the point) which they don’t want to seem to do.
Alexi Casilla is the 2B prospect you’re thinking of. The got him from the Angels for JC Romero back in 2006. He’s good, but he’s no Cano.
I think you got the guy, the Twins seem really high on him (I’m not), the question is, why don’t they want to trade him?
I mean, Cano is a all-star, why not package this kid in a Santana deal to the Yanks for Cano and other players?
They seem high on him, so either he is that good, or they value him (at this time, in light of years and future arbitration) ahead of Cano.
Either way, this trade is about santana, so Cano, almost certainly would not make a difference.
i remember writing in the Olney thread that he has a ‘completely unidentified source.’ not unnamed team official, ‘i heard’ could literally be a busboy who cleaned up after a dave eiland meal one night.
O’Brien’s “several people in the Yankee organization” sounds far more reliable (imo) than “i heard”.
This Cano talk is pointless. Utterly pointless. At no point ever have the Twins expressed any desire for him and no point ever have the Yankees said they are willing to trade him. Considering that he’s nearing big arbitration pay days over the next few seasons, I can’t imagine why the Twins would be all that interested in him anyway.
The initial rumors were starting with Cano. How much of that was posturing I dont know. BUT, regardless of how close Cano is to arbitration he would fit them perfectly. I think every report has Cano as “untouchable”, along with Joba. My point is Im not sure why Cano would be untouchable. I understand his value but I think its clear that an all star offensive second baseman is a luxury, when you have three guys in a rotation (none of which you want to give up), that cant go above 180 innings this year. AND the organization has invested $200 M in this team so any thought that its about rebuilding is ridiculous.
Can’t understand why Cano is Untouchable? It seems like Cashman has made every playe on the roster under the age of 25 is untouchable. I heard that two of the bat boys and the guy who washes their jocks is “untouhable:
Building up a great farm system is great, but Cashman needs to realize that all of these guys cannot fulfill their potential with the Yanks – there just are not enough roster spots available
I think Cashman is being wise when it comes to protecting young pitching. Even when it comes to Horne and Marquez. You never know which one of these kids is going to work out and they do need depth even if they have Santana. The thought that one player can make them an instaneous World Series contender is wrong, but that applies as much to Santana as to any one of these kids they are protecting. That said, I think its better to give up a known quantity like Cano, who is replacable on the open market, than a young arm like a Hughes or Kennedy or Joba.
And to call it pointless to discuss Robbie is hilarious to me. There was two weeks of conversation here about protecting the big three, including T-shirts being made. If the Twins had said yes or decide to say yes to the original Hughes proposal, pointless would have been an understatement to all that talk and those T-shirts. Just like it was pointless to discuss Arod’s replacement in retrospect.
serious question:
if the Yankees could trade Jeter to say, the Dodgers, for 2 Blue Chip prospects that could be flipped for Santana, would you do it?
if the answer is “no”, then i don’t see how you can argue to trade Cano.
Cano is younger, much cheaper, and was better than Jeter in 2007. it is HIGHLY unlikely that Jeter will outperform Cano over the next 5 seasons.
that’s my question, would you do that?
Steve:
I understand the value of Cano so the Jeter scenario is fine and of course I dont think they should trade Jeter. In a vacuum, I would say do that trade to get Santana. But the reality is you cant trade Jeter. Its not fantasy or a video game, you cant trade an icon on your team and thats why I think that is not a fair scenario to give.
ALL that being said, I’m just saying why is Cano considered untouchable when he has his greatest value now and can allow you to maintain the young pitching you have developed over the last three years.
With the age of the offensive, this team needs Cano He has shown impovement in hi plate disciline every year and if he ever tuly learns the strike-zone he will ne geat Even Joe Mogan, a yankee hater, thinks Cano has batting tites in his future and could get 3k hits
As fo this talk of abandoning th eyouth movement in a tade fo santana – that is nonsense, In fact that plays into th eyouth movement as he will be great fo another 6 years whie heping them win a WS One player cant make a difference? Look at last season Sanatana stats game 1 and the Yanks beat the Indians
and the problem with the Hughes argument is it is all based on assumptions Santana is a given. I will take 5 years of a given over 8 years of a maybe any day
How is Santana a given? Has he EVER pitched in NY or proved capable of??? All of the 3 young pitchers whom may or not be included in a deal for Santana HAVE! How’s that for an assumption???????????
Trading tommorrow for yesterday is a fool’s game….
[...] Kat O’Brien reported that sources within the Yankee organization said that Joba is expected to be in the started rotation. The back and forth continued when O’Brien issued a report that, when you think about it, [...]
[...] Chamberlain. I know an unsourced report about keeping Joba in the pen, from Buster Olney (props to RAB for this one), was the starting point for many of our more recent concerns. But, Olney’s report [...]