Anatomy of a trade rumor

Heading to the NL
NY pols bemoan stadium subsidies

So I just read through this thread at MLBTR, talking about the C.C. Sabathia rumors involving the Yanks. Of course, everyone in the comments has their idea of a trade proposal. And, more often than not, anyone who came up with a proposition was called stupid or insane by a slew of other commenters.

We’re going to hear trade talk for the next month and a half, so I figured we could agree on some groundrules for talking trade. These are just points we can bear in mind when we post an irresponsible rumor, so we don’t start flame wars across the board. I’ll start with a few, and we can add some in the comments.

1) We value our own prospects more than the rest of the league. Definitely the most important point on this list.

2) Our trade proposals are never going to happen. They’re fun, for sure. That’s why we think about who we would trade for whom. But so few of them end up happening. Bottom line: You’re not right and I’m not right, so let’s not act like it.

3) C.C. Sabathia is a six-month rental, and brings zero guarantees, in terms of his helping the team, and in terms of him re-signing.

4) As with No. 2, the trade rumors you hear in the paper will likely amount to nothing. We see them every year. They’re neat, but not very useful.

5) The more players you put into a trade proposal, the more certain it is to not happen. The days of trading a bunch of crap for a good arm — like the David Cone trade — are far behind us. Bobby Abreu is the exception, far from the rule.

6) When we’re talking trading prospects, we’re talking about uncertainty. Teams take that into consideration when trading their established players.

I’m sure I’m missing a ton. Fire away in the comments.

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Heading to the NL
NY pols bemoan stadium subsidies
  • dan

    Sabathia is more of a 3-4 month rental, depending on playoffs.

    “You’re not right and I’m not right, so let’s not act like it.

    Correction: I’m always right, and everybody’s wrong, so let’s bow down to dan.

    • KC

      Here is the latest The Yankees have fallen to the back of the line by telling the Indians that they would continue to talk but Phil Hughes is off limits .
      Now it seems that the Dodgers are the front runner with a package of Kemp / Broxton / and 2 to three top prospects Lindsey / Paul / Slults / Mattingly / Jansen / Santana.
      The Red Sox are willing to include Lester / and a host of 3 to 4 prospects
      Thurston / Lowrie / Brown / Pauley / Zink / Pinckney / Bowden.

      The Mets deal could work with Jose Reyes being the key piece with a host of prospects from the grouping of Argenis Reyes / Anderson Hernandez /Brian Stokes / Nick Evans / Dan Murphy / Ambiorix Concepcion / Josh Thole / Greg Vilez / Casey Craig .

    • KC

      Here is your latest on the CC Rumors and how the Indians are going to handle it .

      Jayson Starks latest on ESPN.com that The Indians WILL NOT be giving a negotiation window for a team hoping to sign C.C. Sabathia while acquiring him.

      After reading this today I watched the Indians sports show on Direct TV
      # 657 Bruce Drennen show He stated that the CC trade will be made shortly
      the Indians have talked to all teams interested asking for a Min 3 top prospects and he may only make 1 more start in Cleveland .

      He has said to his Knowledge that they have at least to very atractive offers on the table . The teams he said are believed to be The Rays and The Philles

  • CB

    Sabathia is not going to be dealt until the absolute last date possible. Shapiro will want to see where his team is in the wild card/ division and he’s going to want to take every offer possible to play teams against each other. The trade deadline is July 31.

    That means any team trading for him is specifically trading for 2 months of his services under his current contract and the right to negotiate a long term deal with him.

    That’s it. Just like the Santana situation only CC is nowhere near the pitcher and with Santana you were getting 1 year of his services under contract not 2 months.

    What is 2 months of CC and the negotiating window worth?

    I do think Shapiro would will try to trade him to the NL. They are not going to want to better teams long term that they’ll have to compete with in the NL.

    IMO 2 months of CC and the right to negotiate a contract very, very few teams will be able to afford is going to be worth a limited amount.

    People will start off thinking that the Indians are going to get back multiple premium prospects – especially Inidan fans (just like the Twins did). But the market for Sabathia will be very small both due to the issue of only getting him for 2 months and the money it’ll take to keep him.

    • Count Zero

      Solid analysis — I agree. CC isn’t going to be worth as much in a late trade as some people think he is. He could be a difference maker for a team that’s close to winning it all, but in any other scenario he’s not worth multiple A prospects.

    • Steve

      I disagree. Its not always about leverage, it can often be about selling when the most number of buyers are interested. Supply and demand. You don’t sell a snowblower in the middle of the summertime, and you don’t sell a pitcher when many of the buyers (especially the ones with the most to offer) could very well be out of the pennant race.

      If he waits until the last minute, some of the teams (namely the Rays) who might be able to offer him the most may fall out of contention and no longer be interested.

      • Steve

        And another thing about leverage. It cuts both ways. The seller gets desperate to make a deal when he’s up against the deadline and teams start dropping off since they went with their trade Plan B’s.

        You wait until the last minute, you can easily get caught with your pants down. Just ask Bill Smith.

  • Luke S.

    Good post, CB.

    The only thing I would add is that if you get CC for two months, part of the bargain, if so it can be called, is that you get an additional pick in the first round of draft when some other club signs him.

  • Axl

    I’m not sure if I want Sabathia. He’s no Santana and the asking price is going to be around the same price for him…and (not that we want to trade them…) but Hughes, Kennedy, etc. value has dropped significantly after this season.
    I’m not sure a trade for Sabathia is necessary seeing how he hasn’t exactly been stellar himself all season…and we’re 7 or 8 games back (depending on tonight) already…and I don’t see any significant turn around yet. A pitcher who pitches every 5th day certainly isn’t going to help Robinson Cano and Melky Cabrera find their swings again. Roger Clemens was a bit injection solely because of his name and what he represents and what he could teach the young guys…Sabathia isn’t a Roger Clemens and he’s a lefty…and Pettitte doesn’t need any tips from Sabathia I’m guessing.
    I think we finally need to start building our bullpen like we should have done years ago when we realized it sucked back. Enough with the Paul Quantrill’s and Tanyon Sturtze’s and Scott Proctors…yes, some year they were ok…but we need to start getting some dominant guys…that way we can shorten the innings per game, take pressure off the young guys…and get more wins!

    • Jon W.

      You can argue that Sabathia would not be worth the price, but to say definitively that he’s “no Santana” is just not true. Yes, he has an ERA over 4 for the year, but excluding his first 3 starts (which were awful) he’s actually thrown to a 1.98 ERA. And if I’m not mistaken, they pitched in the same division last year, and Sabathia won the Cy Young, not Santana. You can make an argument that Santana is better, but if he is, the difference is negligible.

      I’m just as leery as anyone of giving up too much for 2 months of work an a window to re-sign him, but there’s no doubt he’s an ace. Plain and simple.

    • Ed

      You do realize that Paul Quantril was one of the best bullpen arms until he came to the Yankees, right? Our bullpen’s greatest fault the past few years was Torre’s tendency to take any reliever doing a decent job and use him relentlessly until he had nothing left, often resulting in injuries.

      The Stanton/Nelson/Rivera era was an anomaly. Relievers that can consistently produce at that level get big money closer jobs. They don’t hang around in low paying middle relief jobs. Remember, 95% of the time, middle relievers are failed starters or failed closers. The rest are rookies without any leverage.

      • mike

        and if we remember the regular season, Stanton could not throw consistant strikes, Nellie would use that stupid slurve over and over again and make us nuts by not throwing a fastball and Torre would want to kill him, and Menodza was a tease except he always killed the Sox!

        However, they all seemed to buckle down in the palyoffs/ clutch, so those are our fondest memories – remember Lloyd when he first came over in ’96 – he was horrible!!

      • JoeC

        Let’s not forget Ramero Mendoza too!

      • Steve

        People have such convenient memory when it comes to the “Good ol days”. Jeff Nelson was a heart attack waiting to happen on the mound. He would often walk the bases loaded and then strike out the side (if he was lucky). He didn’t know where the hell that frisbee slider was going as often as he did.

        He drove me (and Torre) nuts for years, now everyone hails him as an old time great. Ugh.

      • maris’ ghost

        right on. And why your at it, why not turn Kennedy into a reliever this year, take a flyer on Sabathia, which means keeping your position players but giving up pitichingprospects, plus, possibly Hughes?

  • r.w.g.

    If the Front Office thinks CC Sabathia gives us a real shot of making the playoffs this year, they should trade for him.

    How much talent to send back to Cleveland would have to be based on how confident the Front Office is that they would be able to extend or resign Sabathia.

    Outside of Joba, Montero, and maybe Hughes, I don’t think any of the guys in the minors should be off-limits.

    • daneptizl

      I don’t agree with that. If they think he’ll help us to get over the hump and be the WS champs, then yes go ahead and trade for him, but not if he’ll only get us to the playoffs.

      • r.w.g.

        Well I’m kind of going on the notion that once you’re in the playoffs, anything can happen. Ideally.. you’d think some combination of Wang, Sabathia, Pettitte, Hughes, Rasner, Joba, Mussina, either starting or finishing games would have a decent shot if it got in.

  • Russell NY

    “Outside of Joba, Montero, and maybe Hughes, I don’t think any of the guys in the minors should be off-limits.”

    I would hold onto Austin Jackson – Damon, Abreu and Matsui won’t be around forever.

    • r.w.g.

      There are a lot of outfielders in the Yankees system. I like AJack a lot, too. In fact I think he’s going to be a decent player, maybe even for us. But if it takes putting him into a deal to get Sabathia, I probably pull the trigger. If AJack is in the deal, maybe I don’t give up a whole lot else — unless CC has agreed to open negotiations or something like that.

      I mean.. if the New York Yankees need to go get an outfielder, the New York Yankees will go get an outfielder.

  • Manimal

    predicting a trade accurately is like getting a game show question right. Good for you but no one gives a damn.

    If the yankees believe Melky is a better major league player than gardner then they could put him on the trading block or vice versa(imagine an outfield with melky/gardner and sizemore), the yankees have way too many pitching prospects and no guys with MAJOR stuff(like the big 3 had) Karstens could also be on the block. If Hank feels like winning this year is necessary then the yankees should go for him if not they should wait, 09 is going to be a better year anyways.

    • Jon W.

      What would the Indians possibly do with Jeff Karstens?

      And I could be mistaken, but I think the Yanks have a bunch of other pitching prospects (Garcia, Sanchez, Betances, Brackman) with major stuff. They may have other issues, but lack of a power arm is not one of them.

      • http://www.riveraveblues.com Ben K.

        What the hell is anyone going to do with Jeff Karstens? He’s an AAAA pitcher at best.

        • A.D.

          If only they could trade him to Japan….

          In reality Karstens would be useful in a trade for a utility type bat, i.e. if they were trading for another Betemit type player, especially to the NL, that could probably get it done

        • Chip

          Which is exactly what everybody said about Rasner this year. Karstens just has to put it together, not likely but possible

          • steve (different one)

            Rasner doesn’t really have any trade value though either.

            • nmc

              Maybe he does now… A couple more starts and maybe we flip him for something…

            • Chip

              I actually agree with Steve, I was just pointing out that Rasner has been good for us so maybe somebody would take him but I doubt he’d be worth much

  • CB

    CC Sabathia is nowhere near Santana’s league. Sabathia has had two very good years in his career – 2006 and 2007. Those are his only years with an ERA+ of over 140 – and he was only 140 in 2006 and 143 last year. You could argue that given the huge number of innings he threw last year it was a truly great year. But those innings also have to make you leery about how his arm will hold up.

    CC has never had an ERA+ of over 150. He’s had two years with an ERA+ of over 130. His body of work is in no way comparable to a guy like Santana or Webb. Not even close.

    He’s been an outstanding pitcher the past two years. But he does not have the track record of the truly great pitchers as he wasn’t that good his first 5 years (but did throw a lot of innings).

    Could he get better? Sure – he’s only 27. But he also could have had his peak year last year. He’s thrown a lot of innings and his bod will put a lot of stress on his knees and back as the years go on.

    • Jon W.

      The question is not whether or not Sabathia is as good as Santana was in his prime, but how they compare right now. I don’t think anyone would dispute that 2 or 3 years ago, Santana was the most dominant pitcher in baseball. He’s still great, but he’s not as dominant as he used to be. Sabathia had a better ERA+ last year, and excluding his first 3 starts (which I admit, is somewhat problematic) his ERA+ is over 2.

      I know his innings total last year was extremely high, but before last year, he hadn’t thrown over 200 innings since 2002. Anyway, my point was that right now, Sabathia is either as good, or close to as good as Santana. I don’t know if he will be in 2 years, but he is right now.

    • http://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=594331910 Jamal G.

      A baseball player’s peak years are considered right where C.C. Sabathia is. If I am not mistaken it is generally considered to start at 26, ending I am not sure of. It would make sense that his peak years have been in 2006 and 2007 because generally that is when baseball players enter their primes.

  • Number 27

    do you guys think that yankees fans value their prospects a little less now after seeing the less than stellar starts by hughes and kennedy this year? it seems that way to me. names that are being thrown around for c.c. this year are names that never would have been included for santana last year.

    • A.D.

      I think the idea with over-valuing prospects is that a yankee fan would think that something like IPK & Acevs should be enough for CC while Cleveland would probably laugh at that

  • A.D.

    While people rumor a CC trade, the Yanks actually have to do something to prove they really are contendor, CC alone won’t take the Yankees from a game over .500 to the playoffs.

    In terms of players, there isn’t really much reason to trade any of the Yankees small stable of position players, the Yanks have so many pitchers, and will likely contiune to draft pitching that it’s the best to trade that, if you think about the 2011 yanks their rotation could be something like Joba, Brackman, Wang, Hughes, Bleich, with Cole coming up & Garcia, IPK, Horne, McCutchen, Acevs, Marquez, McCallister, Betacanes, Jones, Vindette, etc. outside looking in. Obv thats one scenario, and some of these guys, if not all will probably never be regular major leaguers (except for of course Wang, who already is).

    CC or not the best bet for the Yanks would probably be a prospect swap for a hitter with a pitching starved team, such as the Brewers & others.

    • CB

      Cleveland’s strength is their pitching – both in the majors and minors. Carmona and Cliff Lee alone are young pieces to build their staff around.

      Cleveland’s major problem is that they can’t hit. And they have a real lack of position players in the minors.

      They’ll want pitching back but they are going to ask for Jackson as well. Like Minny, they’ll ask for the moon and hope the yanks panic.

      • A.D.

        Which is why Cleveland isn’t a good trading partner for us

  • r.w.g.

    If the Front Office thinks CC can help this 2008 team make a run, they should pull the trigger. If they don’t believe they can retain him, they should adjust how much talent to send back.

    If they don’t think this 2008 team is going to be a factor, then just make an attempt to sign him in the off-season (if they even want to sign him to a big deal in the first place) and keep the kids.

    I think CC can help us this year, but I don’t want a Santana/Zito deal on the payroll.

  • Andy in Sunny Daytona

    Obviously are entire system will pan out, and in 2011 we will an 8 man rotation.

    • Chip

      Obviously, isn’t that why we keep drafting pitchers? Besides, they’ll all be on inning limits so an 8 man rotation will work out wonderfully!

  • BillyBall

    I have to totally agree with CB in his earler post. Why would we give up our top young positional player like Jackson or Tabata, for CC’s 2 month of service? Why would we give up a Brackman or Horne. Say we make the trade and get knocked out in the wild card, than CC walks and we get a 1st round and a supplement . We just gave up a Jackson, Horne, and another prospect. are those 3 players who are close to being major league ready worth 2 months of CC and 2 draft picks?
    There is no guarantee that making the trade is going to bring a 27 World Series Championship. When your building a top farm team, why would you sacrifice it for this gamble when our more pressing needs are bullpen help, defensive help,
    and offensive help? Is Wang, Petite, Joba, Mussina, and either Kennedy, Rasner, Horne, or Hughes that awful of a staff? That staff on paper is better than many other starting 5 including the White Sox who are in first place!

    Here’s a trade I would do but Seattle would never make it. We trade Matsui, Melky, Kennedy, and Horne for Suzuki, and Bedard! That would be worth a look since we are giving up 3 young players, 2 of which many are down on and gaining an ace Lefty and Suzuki, a 35 year old star with speed and defense. I could only dream! Matsui a Japanese star replaces Suzuki a Japanese star. Gardner comes up and becomes a 4th OF with defense and speed in the late innings. I think Bedard has a higher upside than CC and we don’t have to worry about 2 months of service. Seattle wouldn’t make this deal! But since we are throwing out deals, there is my stupid deal!

    • Chip

      Wow, that’s about all I can say to that

    • http://CCnotforjust3prospects KC

      you will next get CC for 3 prospects , not going to happen Dodgers already have more on the table.

  • BillyBall

    I know, I know, it’s an awful lot to digest. But since we are all in fantasy land playing GM with what IF’s. I threw my hat in the ring cause I have nothing else to do right now but listen to ESPN and Wfan and read about my Yankees!

  • Andy in Sunny Daytona

    By 2011, Joba will pitch every inning of every game.

    • steve (different one)

      as long as he pitches the 8th inning, the yankees will go 162-0.

      • The Fallen Phoenix

        You know what’s awesome about Joba the starter? He can pitch inning 8–after innings 1 through 7! So 162-0 is too conservative an estimate for those Yanks!

  • vinny-b

    Kennedy/Tabata/Marquez, for Sabathia.

    I don’t really care to give up Cano.

    This above deal is made, as a rental. If we don’t re-sign Sabathia, then we take the two Round 1 selections

    • JoeC

      No way!

    • JoeC

      No way! I’d trade cano!

    • JoeC

      No way! I’d trade cano!

    • http://CCnotforjust3prospects KC

      This is what has been rumored .

      Rumors out of cleveland have Indians Gm talking to Yanks Gm Cleveland asking for Hughes / Cano / Francisco Cervelli / Chase Wright / Austin Jackson

      Dodgers have start talks said to have dangled / Steve Kemp / Jonathan Broxton/Andy LaRoche/Marlon Arias/ Russell Mitchell /Juan Gonzalez

      Indians is said to want 4 to 5 and any team must included major league ready pitcher starter or closer type 2nd base / short / or power hitting 1st or tird base type.

      • nmc

        haha. with whom are we going to replace Cano? pass.

      • Chip

        They’ll NEVER get something close to that

      • Steve

        And Bill Smith wanted Cano AND Wang or he wouldn’t talk to us.

        Remember what he ended up with? Garbage, outside of Gomez. And even Gomez is just Melky with more range.

        • Lou

          Gomez will develop power as he grows. And he has more speed than Melky. And he’s got a better average despite being rushed to the majors. So, no, he’s not JUST Melky with more range

      • B

        Forget trying to get Sabathia now. We are most likely gonna get him in the off-season anyway. I would like to see the Yanks try to get Broxton from the Dogders though if possible.

  • The Fallen Phoenix

    In all seriousness, this is something I’ve wondered for a while: whenever you read about Yankees trade rumors, whether it be in the printed media, or in the comments sections of websites like mlbtraderumors.com, why is there always this baseless assumption that the Yankees will get desperate and throw their entire farm system at any given a player?

    Honestly, when was the last time the Yankees “traded the farm” for a player? Even when they’ve brought back high-end talent in recent years, the Yankees have *always* given up mid-level talent, and even when the Yankees traded the best of their system, that was either for special circumstances (e.g., A-Rod) or because the best of their system itself constituted mid-level prospects (e.g., Brandon Claussen).

    I think the closest analog I can think of re: the Yankees giving up big talent for a name would be the two Javy Vazquez trades; in the first place, they gave up Johnson and Juan Rivera (and I think that was a great and reasonable package for a young, ace-level starter entering his prime), and in the second, they traded that player and their best position prospect (Navarro) for Randy.

    That might have been the last time the Yankees “sold the farm,” and while I hated the second Javy Vazquez/Randy Johnson trade, that was three or four years ago, and was at least half-way defensible given the season Johnson had had.

    So where does this narrative of the Yankees always willing to sell their farm, regardless of circumstance, stem from? It’s one of the most frustrating things to read about, it really is. It might have been true ten or fifteen years ago, when George was in his heyday, but the reason why the Yankees had such a terrible farm system in the early aughts wasn’t due to trading it away, it was due to few draft opportunities (due to all the Type-A free agents brought in) and, when the Yankees did have high (or relatively high) draft picks, they were squandred on “talents” like C.J. Henry.

    • http://www.overheardinnewyork.com NC Saint

      While it didn’t involve the farm, I would definitely classify the Contreras-Loaiza trade as a panic move. Contreras was struggling in his first season in the league, and rather than see if he could work it out, we got a pitcher who had built up a big name on the strength of one good season surrounded by a career of mediocrity.

      • steve (different one)

        Contreras was in his second year though.

        that’s not to say i disagree, just saying the Yankees waited 1 1/2 years into a 4 year deal. he didn’t “put it together” until year 3 of a 4 year deal.

    • Steve

      “why is there always this baseless assumption that the Yankees will get desperate and throw their entire farm system at any given a player?”

      Because some people are still living in 1986. The Yanks have rarely made any deadline deals or traded away any prospects since Cashman took over control of the baseball operations 3 years ago. He likes the roster flexibility of the young guys and with as many no-brainer deals (Big Unit, Vasquez, Weaver, etc) that worked out badly he is very cautious about anything other than a Bobby Abreu straight salary dump.

      I think the Yanks should deal off some of these guys, the reality is not all of them will have spots on the MLB team or the time to work through their growing pains in NY. But we really may not be at that point yet, knowing which ones we really want to keep and which ones we don’t.

  • http://itsaboutthemoney.blogspot.com Jason R.

    There’s an inverse correlation between the value of the prospects you have to surrender relative to the amount of the contracts you will have to absorb. Like the Abreu deal. Gave up little since he was due a pretty substantial figure. Some players have escalator clauses in their contracts that trigger if traded. Changes the dynamics of a trade. Can’t forget that.

  • Hybrid Moments

    I think Jackson would have to be in any deal for Sabathia. Tabata’s value has to be dropping rapidly due to all his behavior issues this season. I think a package of Kennedy/Hughes, Jackson, and Marquez might do it.

    • KC

      this is the rumor heard on local Cleveland sports talk show
      Hughes / Cano / Francisco Cervelli / Chase Wright / Austin Jackson

      • nmc

        Well they wouldn’t do less than that for Santana, I doubt they’ll do it for Sabathia. i would be anyone 1 hundred dollars the Yankees don’t trade for Sabathia unless it’s a steal: Rasner and Tabata or something like that.

        • Chip

          That’s exactly correct

      • Hybrid Moments

        I’d do Hughes, Cervelli, and Wright. No way I’d do a five for one trade.

  • yanks99

    just a random question – how do trades with a “player to be named later” work? what if they don’t agree on players at a later date? do they do that in baseball or is that in other sports only

    • Ed

      The “player to be named later” is usually decided on when the trade is made, or at least narrowed down with an agreement on how the final call gets made.

      Anyway, the PTBNL can’t be on the 40 man roster. And if no player is named within whatever the deadline is (it’s a few months), then there’s a fixed cash payment instead. You can’t really trade a player for cash, so if you want to do that, you do a PTBNL deal then don’t name a player later.

    • Ed

      I forgot to mention the other big reason for PTBNL deals. A player signed from the draft can’t be traded within 1 year of the date he is signed. However, he is eligible to be a PTBNL, as long as the deadline for the PTBNL is after that 1 year anniversary.

  • Jon W.

    Unless the Yanks have soured on Hughes or IPK, there’s no way they would trade either one of them for a 2 month rental of Sabathia. Given how protective Cashman has been of his top prospects of late, I can’t imagine the Yankees trading anyone of significant worth for a guy who would be a free agent in 2 months.

    • B

      Keep Hughes. Trade Kennedy, but not for junk so build his value back up first.

      • KC

        The Indians will only deal for Hughes in the package you may be able to pull Cano out if you include Horne in his place but Hughes will have to be part of the deal to make it happen.

        The Indians have no real Interest in what will most likely a number 4 or 5
        starter in Kennedy or at least that is how they view Kennedy . They view Hughes as a 2 or 3 starter

        Paul Byrd will win as many games next year as a 4 or 5 as Kennedy will.

        • B

          Then I don’t do the deal. Any team that asks for Hughes in a trade can take a hike!

  • SMS47

    Tabata’s upside will push past his maturity issues in CLE’s decision making. He’s a kid and with good mentors will be less of a head-case.

    IMHO, Hughes, AJax, Montero and Brackman are the only untouchables, and that includes Robbie and Melky. Adding Robbie might buy time to get an extension w CC too.

    Besides, it appears everyone reading RAB agrees there will only be a few AL team playing if CC were to be put on the block, and Boston will clearly be stepping up. They could afford to offer top prospects, and have trended to pull the trigger in the last few years (though Gagne was a disaster :-)). It would be a worst case scenario to see the Sox grab CC, deal late into the post season, and either re-sign CC or give two high picks to Theo for the draft.

    We should quickly get Kennedy healthy in AAA to make our options brighter. I’d pull the trigger if CC’s available.

    • nmc

      Yeah we don’t want the Sox trading Lester for CC. that would be a steal.

  • Reggie C

    Boston won’t be in play for CC b/c they got to re-sign Josh Beckett. I’m not exactly sure when his contract ends, but i think its after next season. They’re gonna extend Manny’s contract on top of that too for a couple seasons, and he looks great. Honestly, there’s very little Boston has to fix.

    Yanks are in a different boat. As much as Robbie Cano has struggled this season, it’d be foolish to give up on him at the All-Star break! He’s signed to a very affordable contract. If he turned it around next season in an Indians uni , we’d all be spitting mad at the yank brass.

    Melky is expendable. Easy. I say we float a package of Melky, IPK, Betances.

  • KC

    This is the players the Indians are said to be asking for Hughes / Cano / Francisco Cervelli / Chase Wright / Austin Jackson

    • http://www.riveraveblues.com Joseph P.

      This is the exact kind of thing I warn against in this very post.

      • KC

        with wang now down maybe for the season and CC in his last 10 starts with a 2.22 era AL current strikeout leader does that trade still look that bad .

        If those last 10 starts would have come with the Yankees they would have been 10 Wins and you would have forgotten all about those players , and their would have been a new savior risen in New York City

  • dave

    When is this offense going to start hitting when it counts? There is NO WAY with this team scoring 2 or less runs in over 30% of there games like they are that they will make the playoffs.

    This is disgraceful watching this offense against pitchers that every other team is hitting against.

    They have lost numerous games all ready because of the inability to score with a man on third and less than two outs.

    How many games must our pitchers lose by only giving up 2-3 runs to teams we should beat because of an inept offense.

    Where is the hitting coach helping Cano and Cabrera who swing at everything and anything.

  • Andy in Sunny Daytona

    I heard that Boston is offering their entire minor league system, but Cleveland said that they wanted Beckett too.

  • BigBlueAL

    I am amazed at how down people are on Cano, its ridiculous. He is hitting horrible, but has an amazing track record, is only 25 yo, is a homegrow kid which apparently is the most important thing for the people on this site, and believe it or not has become an exceptional defensive 2b. Yet when i bring that up, people usually tell me who cares about his defense, yet all the Brett Gardner fans talk about his range and speed in the outfield as one of his biggest attributes, yet for Cano his defensive value is meaningless???? Amazing. I pray the Yankees dont even give an ounce of thought on trading Cano, and im pretty sure they r smart enough to know what they have in Cano and r not considering trading him.

  • alex

    i might just be one of the only people here throwing out a trade idea but…..how about trading damon and mid-level prospects to kansas city for zack grienke. great arm in grienke, and damon goes back to his hometown and brings some veteran leadership to them. call up gardener and theres the solution to the leadoff spot. how does wang, andy, moose, joba, and grienke sound? and if that dosent work you can put him in the bullpen where he can just throw heat for an inning in the 7th or 8th securing the bridge to mariano.

  • Andy in Sunny Daytona Beach

    How about Brett Gardner straight up for CC?

  • Chris

    I would love to to get the following 2 players CC and Sizmore. Now it might seem crazy but here’s the trade. Yankees trade Melky, Kennedy, and the Indians pick of any 2 triple/double A arms. Plus a few draft picks. If possible to add depth on the bench pick up David Dellucci. Let me dream

    • KC

      how about Francisco Cervelli for David Dellucci would you make that deal ?
      that is the type minor leaguer the Indians would want for that player.

      Sizemore / Francisco may be the only untouchable players on the active roster
      at this point .

  • KC

    Bad news for the Yankees / Good news for the Indians afte Wang went down and could be lost for the season . About 8 GM’s interested in CC all had heart attacks at the same time .

    Cashman just saw the light at the end of the tunnel suddenly become farther away .

    And the remaining 7 GM’s looking to try to pick up CC now realize now the Yankees will be willing to give up more than before , and because of that now they may have to offer player thought untouchable before just to stay in the market for last years cy youg award winner and current AL Strikout leader.

    In The last 10 games CC’s starts ERA 2.22 Not bad.

    Is it time to break the bank for CC or maybe call up Horne and give him 2 or 3
    starts to see what you have before including him in a deal for pitching help.

    So now would this deal look so bad Hughes / Cano / Francisco Cervelli / Chase Wright / Austin Jackson knowing that the team will most likely get 72 hours to try to work out a contract with CC’s agent .

    I feel the team that does make the trade will sign him prior to the deal being completed reguardless of which team ends up with him.

    • Chris

      Hughes and Cano that seems much just for CC, maybe if they add a few more Indians to the mix. Also what do you think about Aaron Cook(Rockies) Jake Peavy(Padres) Derek Lowe(Dodgers) Zack Greinke(Royals) Sidney Ponson(Texas) or Kevin Millwood(Texas) or Jarrod Washburn(Seattle) Ben Sheets(Brewers) Steve Trachel(Free Agent) David Wells(free agent)…..i’d also like to pick up Xadier Nady for depth and trade Latroy Hawkins maybe to the Rockies for Fuentes.

      • KC

        Here is the latest The Yankees have fallen to the back of the line by telling the Indians that they would continue to talk but Phil hughes is off limits .
        Now it seems that the Dodgers are the front runner with a package of Kemp / Broxton / and 2 to three top prospects Lindsey / Paul / Slults / Mattingly / Jansen / Santana.
        The Red Sox are willing to include Lester / and a host of 3 to 4 prospects
        Thurston / Lowrie / Brown / Pauley / Zink / Pinckney / Bowden.

        The Mets deal could work with Jose Reyes being the key piece with a host of prospects from the grouping of Argenis Reyes / Anderson Hernandez /Brian Stokes / Nick Evans / Dan Murphy / Ambiorix Concepcion / Josh Thole / Greg Vilez / Casey Craig .

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