New month, same results for Rasner

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Posted by mobile phone:
Sometimes, I hate being right.

Five days ago, after Darrell Rasner and the Yanks lost a tough game to the Mets, I threw up a red flag concerning Rasner’s performance. Sure, he had limited the Mets to two earned runs in five innings, but he allowed far too many baserunners to expect future success. Similar to Sidney Ponson’s poor performance against the Rangers after a good outing against the Mets, Rasner’s start was just as discouraging on Friday.

Rasner again lasted five innings and again gave up way too many baserunners. This time, the Red Sox made him pay, and when the dust settled – sadly, an oft-used proverb on RAB these days – Rasner had allowed six earned runs on 10 hits and three walks.

For Darrell and the Yanks, this is nothing. He was a terrible 1-5 with a 6.47 ERA and a whopping 1.81 WHIP in June. His one July start – yesterday’s – was worse.

At this point, the fourth-place Yanks can limp into the All Star break without another Rasner start. They plan to hand the ball off to the equally ineffective Sidney Ponson on Wednesday with Pettitte set to start twice before the break. But we’re getting way ahead of ourselves.

Following yesterday’s game, the Yanks lost more ground and their All Star left fielder. They’re in fourth place, percentage points behind the Orioles, six behind Boston and nine behind a Tampa team that never loses anymore. Darrell Rasner isn’t the problem, but he’s not the solution. I don’t know what is right now.

The Yankees suck
New York State Assembly questions Stadium bond requests
  • MoBoy

    Unlike last year there’s no one in the minors who is good enough or healthy.Like Joba,Hughes and Kennedy.

    Unless Cash can find a free agent pitcher or trade.WE could be seeing a really bad team in the second half.Every yeay we are in this positition.But with so many injuries and Cashman being to overprotective of he’ prospects he can and has hurt this team.

    • Jamal G.

      If the top three starters pitch the way they have all season, the bullpen continues what it has done all season and the offense plays up to par I can’t see how this isn’t in fact a better team than the 2007 edition.

      Also, don’t underestimate the impact Freddy Garcia might have. I would think the Yankee brass maybe a bit more aggressive in their negotiations with the Garcia camp seeing as how they want Phil Hughes and Ian Kennedy to earn their way back, Alan Horne is on the shelf, same for Alfredo Aceves and Daniel McCutchen has not yet earned a call-up.

      • Joltin’ Joe

        Weird Al should be returning from the 7-day soon, correct?

        • A.D.

          You would think he already would have, hopefully next week

  • zzzzz

    i feel like we really get screwed on injuries.

  • Yankees=warriors

    Not only are we lacking in SPs this year, there are no longer many players I would say living up to my account name.
    The biggest warrior of them all, Damon, might be headed to the DL.
    Isn’t it an irony that Damon, who won a ring with the Sox, is the only player that appreciates and understands the pinstripes anymore?

    • Joltin’ Joe

      I’m hoping only a W.S. can keep Abreu in the Bronx next year, there has got to be a better option out there once the season is over. Maybe a trade even.

      • Yankees=warriors

        I agree. After yesterday’s game I’ve officially given up on Abreu.
        2 HUGE chances for him and…NOTHING.
        Plus he’s been slowly declining since coming here.
        Last year his numbers were down from 2006, and this year it’s even more apparent he’s a shell of his former self.

        • Jamal G.

          .305/.390/.528 Is Bobby Abreu’s vital line for the second half of last year with an OPS of .918. In fact Abreu’s sOPS+ was 137 (stat measures the player’s OPS+ against the relative split, in this case being the second half of the 2007 MLB season) so he was actually a monster in the second half of the season.

          This season Bobby Abreu has posted a not so stellar .800-OPS (still 15% better than league average) and a IsoP of .170 (which is not way far off of his career IsoP of .199) but he does have 55-RBIs which ranks fourth amongst American League OFers (Josh Hamilton is #1 with 82 but Abreu is just 9-RBIs short of Jose Guillen’s 64). Behind Alex Rodriguez and Jason Giambi he has been our most productive hitter, you can not write him off because of two ABs. Where is the perspective guys?

          • Jamal G.

            That first paragraph was in response to the belief that Bobby Abreu is a shell of his former self (if that self is his 2006 form). It is not that dramatic and this year he has 10-HRs a week and a half before the All-Star break when last season he had 16-HRs in total and in 2006 he had eight and seven HRs in the first and second halves, respectively.

            • Steve

              I agree, and the numbers bear it out. Abreu is a player in decline, but its the slow, steady decline of a patient contact hitter. Power hitters tend to fall off a cliff, that hasn’t happened with Bobby. You have to dig into his secondary stats and peripherals to see whats going on with Abreu.

              His OPS and OPS+ have steadily declined each of the past 3 years, and thats largely a function of his walk rate declining steadily over the same period. That tells you that he’s lost a little bat speed, and has to cheat a bit to make contact. If you start your bat a bit sooner, you can’t be as patient and draw as many walks.

              He’s still a good, productive player. But its time to let him walk when his contract expires at the end of this year.

            • Hybrid Moments

              I hope they let Abreu walk. Hes a horror to watch in the OF and declining yet again at the plate. He is going to command a multi-year deal on the open market and for that, the Yankees need to thank him for 2006 and say goodbye. Save the money, sign Juan Rivera or explore options for a trade.

          • Yankees=warriors

            You’re right, I jumped the gun too fast.
            Guess yesterday’s game was just such a devastating loss, I lost my head a bit.
            But Abreu really needs to pick it up. He is, after all, our 3rd hitter in the line up and yet he’s hitting .277.

    • JeffG

      I think Giambi puts the effor in.

  • raymond samuels

    Time to get c.c. sabathia . time to trade jeter if anybody wants him. abreu is gone after next year good riddance .andy is not what he used to be.the whole team needs a shake up.please assign rasner to minors just not getting it done.

    • Stryker

      trading jeter, the face of the franchise?! what have you been smoking? jeter is as untouchable as can be.

    • Jamal G.

      It’s comments like these that just boggle the mind. Andy Pettittte has been one of the best starters in baseball over his previous four starts entering into Thursday’s game but yet you’re complaining about him. Derek Jeter entering July vaulted himself to basically the second best offensive SS in the AL behind Michael Young. The team does not need a shake up, this was the same fucking team that was the best team in baseball for like a 90-game stretch in 2007. They made up 12.5-games in the fucking division last year but you are ready to give up the season when they are just five losses behind a playoff spot?

  • Steve

    I have some Rasner stats for you.

    His ERA is approaching 5.

    He’s 1-7 after starting out 3-0.

    He has allowed 52 baserunners in 23.2 IP in his past 5 starts, giving him a WHIP of 2.24 for those games.

    Oh, and our #5 starter is a guy named Sidney Ponson. I can’t imagine anyone thinking we don’t need a starter as our #1 priority right now. I’ll be surprised if Rasner makes his next start. If he does, its only because they have no one else to go to.

  • Bart

    Rasner is the problem and is emblematic of the problem

    — starting pitching is woeful and has been getting worse

    — the aging offense is banged up and less effient than last year in part because they are trying to do too much to offset crappy starting pitching – note Abreu’s AB/swings with bases loaded – his failure as the rains came adds pressure to ARod

    -defense is aging
    — the Damon injury – two years ago maybe he is there with a timed jump – conjecture I know but father time is a thief of athletic prowess
    — Abreu has missed balls many other Yankee outfielders would catch – looking at TV he simply can’t get himself back to the wall – I think a must in RF at Yankee Stadium
    — Jeter I think is hurt – he has not thrown well since spring training, has shown no power, and with the latest (three weeks ago?) HPB has been simply useless at bat – scuffling is the nice term
    — ARod, Giambi, Damon have had lostgame hurts – age will not improve on this
    — CMW is catastrophic given the youth age mix of the pitching
    — Posada and Matsui both may be done as posiiton players

    the failuire to sign Santana (not for Hughes and IPK but for IPK Melky and something from the minors equal to or slightly better than the Mets) left the strating pitching exposed to developing rookies, old arms and CMW — who was exposed to an OJT 3B coach

    Without Mussina’s resurgence the team would be toast already and while the samle is samll neither He nor Pettit have been effective against the good lineups — a big question – can the cerebralMussina reinvest himself – is he a work in progress who wil get better -more TJ, Jimmy Key like??

    Maybe there is a pitching rabbit in Cashman’s hat – maybe something happens and the Ynakees settle in while Tampa hits a patch that undermines their confidence enough to close the gap. Whatever the rabbits we need jeter and CF to hit some and we need Power from Posada, Damon, and Abreu

    Maybe we have to simply look forward to Joba every 5th day just to see what he can do as he matures

    How IRONIC is it that Damon and Giambi – hated by so many Yankee fans are the stand up guys in Pinstripes and right sfter Damon speaks of Pinstripe Pride and gets the game stared well – he gets knocked out — on a pitch of awful location

    Oh on that pitch and the one to Lowell — STUPID — not just Rasner’s lack of precision but the location — Lowell pulls everyhting – You need/desire a DP — what was the Bench Molina Rasner THINKING

    Consider that in the great Championship years since 96 — the Yankee core strength – way above nealry any other team in either league – was C – SS – CF – RF , 1B -and that is now less than league average
    – over those years the team patched around LF, 3B, 2B, and DH and pitching which was often stop gap and patched around — but there was alway Pettit plus 2 – sometimes a Cone or Clemens – sometimes less. Pitching failed in chmpionship play every year from 2002 on – a case might be made for 2001 with the Mariono error

    Now we have
    — a CF that can’t hit — otherwise serviceable or better. A SS, C, and IB aging, hurt not playing — only 1B is upplying offense

    — LF is better than OK – and RF Ok but corner power is down, less than average

    — Pitching is aging faster than the kids can be brought along

    –The looming question is how to go forward — July Trading deadline putting more presure on the regulars
    — saving (if that is possible) 2008 requires pitching
    — the price may be higher than it was last winter based on talent gained/salary – talent lost — thus the Front Office would do in a Panic Summer what planning failed to do in the fall (what I feared and continue to fear most when they did not work a reasonable Santana deal but walked away leaving the Twins to the Mets is that if the strategy failed the Front Office would panic now — fingers crossed that they don’t — pitching can’t do it alone

    So looking forward and not panicking what can be done for the future

    — unless Hughes Joba and IPK (or someone else) are dazzling next year then being championship competitive will be tough – we don’t want towrite it off, we want a chance within the strategy to build from within
    — we (the team) have to surreound the pitchers with players who can do their offensive/defensive share — who are these players

    — LF – you may want and actually need Damon – he continue to hit and play a serviceable LF — Matsui is sone and with his contract not tradeable excpet as a DH – would he go who in the AL woul dtake him for fair value

    — CF – Melky is not the answer — do you stick with him another year

    — RF – Abreu not a very good RF – can’t seem to get back to the wall a must in Yankee Stadium — doesn’t come in well either
    — he has done well with the bat this year but is not a 3 hole — probably will want a contract with too much age risk (he Jeter, Damon, Matsui will all age at the same time and rate — that is a lot of risk to 2009 and 2010). Need to reduce that risk by offloading half of it which may not be possible since Matsui wil be a DH and not Tradeable and there is already a potential hole in CF – can’t take both RF and LF apart at the same time — odds are Abreu can’t stay

    — 3B – set

    — SS Jeter less than avergae if he can’t hit. Biggest replacement problem on Yankees due to ICON staus and runs at major Yankee records – 1st Yankee with a real shot at 3000 hits etc — I think you trade Melky and move Jeter to CF — who replaces Jeter st SS — nothing in minors fixes SS

    — 2B set with Cano – unless you have big brass ones to trade him while he is hot this fall – staistically he much better than avergae and maybe one of top 5 2B in game when hitting – can you stand the o for Aprils/May wil he mature out of that
    — nothing in minors fixes 2b if yiu trade Cano

    — 1B – Giambi has done all you can ask but he too is aging — it may be that there is a three way DH between he Matsui (most of the time) and Posada and a 1B solitbetween Posada and Giambi. Maybe Giambi leaves and Posada is 1B — assuming the shoulder injury does not allow Posada to be everyday C
    There are 1B choices available – some at great cost – but the team can’t shelter both Posada and Matsui and Giambi – who is still one of the most productive hitters in the game. Matsui has been great with the bat – down on power but he — Knees – and Posada — shoulder have to be condisered unknown risks and their contracts do not allow much – nothing in minors fixes 1b

    C – Need a C – the guys in minors are too far away but you may not want more than a stop gap

  • Hybrid Moments

    They need to just have a huge house cleaning this off season. Say goodbye to:

    Abreu – He will command a multi year deal, horrible defense, and declining offense. Let him walk, take the draft picks, and use the money elsewhere. Juan Rivera will be a FA at the end of this year. Give him a shot or explore a trade.

    Moose – I read somewhere that he was done after this year but I would still let him walk in favor of using the money that would be dedicated to him to pursue Sabathia.

    Giambi – Replace him with Teixeria.

    Farnsworth – No reason for him to stick around now that Melancon and Cox are almost major league ready.

    I wouldn’t mind Cashman leaving either. An article in the Newsday recently that NoMaas posted had me shaking my head. This guy is absolutely obsessed with building from within. Its ridiculous. You have a large payroll, you have the resources to get players, do it. Nice to see Johan mowing down the NL while Hughes injures himself, Marquez sucks, Hilligoss sucks, and Melky sucks.

    • Steve

      As much as I like to build from within, you have to make deals to fill your needs. Preferably from excess you have in your farm system, which the Yanks currently could afford with relievers and outfielders.

      That being said if you check the history of deadline deals, they rarely have the big impact that fans hope they will. Often they completely backfire, as we saw with Eric Gagne last year. Also, a recent article on MVN tracked the history of Yankee trades and free agent signings over the past 8 years, and found that each time they made a deal, they created a future need down the road. Lefty reliever Damaso Marte was traded for Enrique Wilson. Reliever Yhency Brazobán was traded with Jeff Weaver for Kevin Brown. For every Bobby Abreu salary dump, there’s two bad deals.

      I think the organization is in a better position to make deals now, and has some excess to deal. But you have to give something to get something, and whatever you give you’ll probably miss sooner or later.

      • Hybrid Moments

        Brazoban had one good season with the Dodgers. The trade of Damaso Marte looks bad right now but other then that, whats come back to bite the Yankees? They won without Lowell and now they have A-Rod at 3B.

        I’m not advocating against utilizing the farm system. I am advocating against holding onto guys like Jeff Marquez and Alan Horne like they are future aces when their ceilings are middle to back end of the rotation starters. The Yankees had a large amount of quality arms right now. Why aren’t some of them being used as trade chips? And why is Cashman talking like money is a big issue with the Yankees? They have something like $65M coming off the books next year, have a television network, and are opening a new stadium. Whats going to be his excuse if Teixeria and Sabathia land elsewhere?

        • Jamal G.

          Alan Horne has front-line stuff but command issues are what projects him to be a #3 starter, if he were to ever fix his command issues then he does have a ceiling has a future ace.

          • Steve

            Horne’s 25 years old. If he was going to find his control, he would have done it years ago. And 25 is pretty much the cutoff age on prospects. After that, they’re generally considered career minor leaguers. I know Horne was injured, but that’s one of the reasons some guys never make it.

          • Hybrid Moments

            I ran Horne’s 2007 line in Trenton through an MLE spreadsheet I downloaded off of Baseball Think Factory and his numbers aren’t pretty (5.46). This same spreadsheet had optimistic numbers for Aceves though (4.11).

            Guys like Horne are a dime a dozen (good stuff, poor control). He is exactly they type of guy the Yankees should be using as a trade chip.

    • Rich

      Yet Santana rarely throws his slider anymore and only touches 94 mph a few times a game. While he is still a very effective pitcher, whether or not he will be for the life of his 6 year $137.5 million contract is an open question. So I don’t think it’s particularly useful to conclude that they should have traded Hughes for him only three months into Year 1 of the first season of that deal.

      • Hybrid Moments

        Hes 28 years old with a clean bill of health. This isn’t Kevin Brown or Mike Hampton. The proposed Hughes, Cabrera, Marquez, and Hilligoss deal is a no brainer. I’d be willing to say that Santana would still give the Yankees above average innings toward the end of his deal.

      • Hybrid Moments

        And what about Hughes’ reduced velocity and diminished control? Theres no concern about that?

        • Rich

          Santana is 29. I’m really not sure what a clean bill of health means given the change in his approach that I mentioned.

          Again, you can call the trade a no brainer three months into the first season of the deal, but the drop in velocity (he used to sit at 95) and the reluctance to use his slider are red flags.

          Whether you are willing to say it or not, we have no idea what Santana will be able to do in the least year of his deal.

          I don’t think we can use this season as a baseline of Hughes’s ability given that he pitched with a broken rib.

          • Hybrid Moments

            Hughes has been hitting 92-93 ever since he returned from his hamstring injury. That includes spring training of this year. If Hughes sniffs Santana’s realm of success I will be overjoyed. I can understand not getting bent over a barrel and having to give up Hughes and Kennedy. I can’t understand not giving up just Hughes. The Yankees even had a back up in place (Cameron) in the event that Cabrera had to be traded. But I am not going to go in circles on this. Its obvious you were in favor of keeping Hughes and I am not trying to be rude when I say nothing I say will change your mind.

            • Rich

              According to Hughes, that has always been his velocity, so that’s his baseline, and there is no cause for concern because there has been no change.

              Hughes doesn’t have to “sniff” Santana’s level of success for the deal to have been ill conceived because: 1) Santana’s best years are probably behind him so the Yankees wouldn’t have been getting that level of success anyway, and 2) Hughes will be MUCH cheaper for the next six years, so you could get more value even if he is just good.

              • A.D.

                Agreeing with Rich, every legit scouting report I’ve read is his FB as 92-93, maybe he’s juiced 95 a few times, but not regular.

                A trade for Santana would have been for what he has been, not necessarily what he’s going to give your team (see Randy Johnson), Santana’s velocity is down, and he costs a boatload + the prospects, if your going to trade Hughes it better be a big time player at a position of need

                • Hybrid Moments

                  You can’t compare a trade for old Randy Johnson for 29 year old Johan Santana. Trying to do so is really reaching. Randy had knee and back issues coming to New York. Santana has no known health issues. You consider Hughes, Cabrera, Marquez, and Hilligoss a ‘boat load of prospects’ for one of the most dominant starters in baseball? How is the SP not a concern for the Yankees? Mussina is gone after this year and no one was too excited about him coming into this season.

            • Jamal G.

              You can’t understand giving up a 21-year-old projected ace?

              • Hybrid Moments

                Actual Ace > Projected Ace

                Had the trade been made the Yankees would have had Kennedy and Joba still on their team and one of the best pitchers in the game anchoring their staff. If you’re not going to trade for Santana then who are you going to trade for? When did this team start worrying about money? Payroll would have been obnoxious for one year. With the guys coming off the books it would have regulated itself in 2009. I think it was a poor non-move for the Yankees and its costing them right now. I get that Cashman shouldn’t have to prepare for 3/5ths of his rotation to go down but he should have at least acknowledged the notion Hughes, Kennedy, and even Joba might suck this year. I guess when it comes down to this trade you either loved the Yankees passing on it or hated that they Santana go to the Mets.

  • Steve

    As bad as this team has played lately, we still have a ton of very productive players on this team and outside of the Red Sox I don’t think I’d trade our roster for any other team in the league.

    Despite our problems, we should be better than this. Our bullpen is good, we have an elite lineup and 3 solid starters. Maybe we don’t make the playoffs this year, but this is not a 4th place .500 team.

    • Rich

      The Rays probably have a better roster than the Sox or the Yankees. especially when you factor in age and salaries..

    • Mike A.

      I would certainly miss Mo, but I would trade the Yanks’ current 25-man roster for the Rays’ current 25-man roster in a heartbeat.

      • Jamal G.

        You know in my mind I was thinking that it would depend if I would receive their front office personnel and/or farm system as well but even if I didn’t I would still take Tampa’s 25-man squad. I think I would miss Alex-Rodriguez more, I know the drop off of Mariano Rivera could have potentially a bigger impact but A-Rod is the best player in the history of baseball, any drop off from that trumps all.

      • Steve

        I disagree. Look at the Tampa roster again.

        Their starting rotation is better right now, but 3/5 of ours is on the DL. They still get the edge since Price will likely be called up by the end of the year-Edge Rays

        Our lineup is so much better its not even close-Edge Yanks

        The bullpens are comparable, and the 2 closers aren’t-Edge Yanks

        Bench-Both teams suck.

        Overall, I still like our roster. But if they do a Joba and put Price in the back of the bullpen this year, then all bets are off.

  • Bryan

    I have a question about last nights game. What are the rules if the ball that Damon almost caught stayed on the wall? What is it, a home run or what?

    • Mike A.

      Gotta be over the wall to be a homer. I’m guessing it would have been a ground rule double, but don’t quote me on that.

  • Andy In Sunny Daytona

    Injuries, you get alot of them when you get older and you get a lot of them when you are younger. If this makes sense, the Yankees are a team that is too old and too young. The main problem is that the stopgaps they are using for the injuries aren’t very strong and they are exploiting the weaknesses. In the past, Cashman could find someone to hold down the fort, this year nothing seems to be working. It could turn out that this team is destined for mediocity, I think that at some point this team will make a run.
    The sunny side of injuries is that it gets a chance for younger players to show some of the skills that they have, unfortunately the younger pitchers have been injured so they have to rely on the Ponson’s of the world.
    So raise your glass, and toast the Yankees. If they come back and play like Champions, great. If they don’t, well, at least we can be drunk.

    • Jamal G.

      The Yankees are the 19th oldest team in baseball, the Chicago Cubs, Boston Red Sox and Philadelphia Phillies are the 26th, 27th, and 28th oldest squads in baseball, respectively, but they all lead their divisions. That age crap is overrated.

      • Jamal G.

        Sorry, obviously Boston does not lead its division but they currently qualify for a playoff spot. So 60% of the five oldest squads in MLB all currently qualify for a playoff spot, again that age stuff is overrated.

        • Andy In Sunny Daytona

          I’m not saying they are playing bad because they are old, I’m saying they are playing bad because they are injured.

    • A.D.

      Also Yankee injuries this year:

      The biggest Yankee injuries from people missing extended time are IPK, Hughes, Wang, A-Rod, Posada, and Matsui. I’d consider Posada & Matsui “old” in that group, A-Rod is above the team avg of 29.6, but not in a age bracket where I would consider him a greater health risk, so many of the injury problems have been younger pitching

  • Jamal G.

    Mike, is there any way that Zach McCallister is not a consensus Top 10 Yankee prospect right now or by the end of the season? I wouldn’t be shocked if he wasn’t because of the sexier names in the system but I assume that if he is not a Top 15 guy there needs to be an investigation so why not hope for Top 10?

  • http://RiverAve.Blues Joseph M

    It’s been said by many of you, the key problem is starting pitching. Bad luck with Wong for sure but it is alot more than that. George in his prime would have blown his stack if a front end of the rotation guy like Santana had gone to someone else let alone the Mets. If C.C. Sabathia is available, get him. I’d keep Hughes for another go round but this injury thing is a real issue. Hughes could turn into a pitching version of Nick Johnson so over the course of the winter I would definitely listen carefully to any offers. Kennedy should be in the minors, let him work it out down there. I do not have aa great deal of hope he will be anything more than just another major league pitcher.

    The team is too old that’s for sure. Too many players past their prime and I would be reluctant to sign any of them as their contracts come up.

    The biggest single disappointment to me has been Cano. Cano should be batting third right now, he is an impact talent. He is about half of what he should be and that is a sin. Girardi and the front office have got to get inside this kid’s head and get him focused. Maybe a younger spanish speaking coach or veteran player (Posada or Rodriguez) could be spoken with to see if they can take him under their wing. Cano batting 7th is a waste of talent and someone inside the organization needs to get to the bottom of it.

  • A.D.

    Getting back to the original topic: Rasner is reverting to essentially what Ponson is, and it would be okay if Rasner got hit around by the Sox (he is a bottom of rotation guy) but with the mets game, and the A’s game, and the other games he’s been poor in, this is obv more of a trend than a quality opponent thing.

    Rasner isn’t the pitcher that earned the call-up, by having redic command and dominating AAA, so either something is wrong, i.e. mechanics are out of whack, or he was just in a groove/the league has adjusted.

    Right now the only real substitute for the Rasner/Ponson bottom of the rotation is Karstens, who’s been pitching real well in AAA of late, and is still only 25 (though it seems like hes been around forever) probably worth a look with the way hes been pitching (I think he should have gotten the call-up over Ponson, but that didn’t happen).

    We will see but some type of solidification of the bottom of the rotation would be nice, even if its something like 6 innings and giving up 4 runs a game, at least we know what were going to get

  • Bart

    Great game from Moose
    Nice play from Gardner and nice at bat — if you check the blogs from january you have a small samole of why i thought Melky could be traded — and here Melky makes a greatdefensive play and has been a big part of the Offense since his 1 game benching / off day

    Still Yankee offense handcuffed by a guy who has been terrible the last four starts

    I don’t want to offend my fellow Ynakee fans but this team is not the same team as last year and next year won’t be the same as this year even if you keep the same players.

    Pete Abe says last year we were 44-44 at this point don’t write team off — NO ONE IS DOING THAT — but there needs to be a recognition that the team is both a yearolder and with age more suceptible to injuries

    I maintain that Jeter is hurt and not showing it- e was never a patient hitter but his in-out swing and hand eye coord are HOF stuff — now he is being exposed for lack of patience and has lost a little of the stroke — often his in game judgement at the plate seems glaringly wrong — is that a comnination of a lost 1/100 of a second to age and some hurts – or the beginning of the inevitable decline.

    Posada is hurt and would have been pressed to repeat last year’s stellar season – he was a big part of the 900 plus run projection — not gonna happen this year and if that injury robs him a little bit – next yeareither.

    As a defensive catcher he imnproved greatly – hard work dedication warrior instinct Jorge is wonderful but he may noe be physically limited

    Jose Molina can’t hit his weight but he has an amazing CS%. I think the Red Sox and other speed teams really pressure the Yankees except for Molina

    Can Jorge get back to 70% of Molina — can his bat make up the difference if he does not.

    Melky on Offense has not played to last year’s standard.

    Abreu got off to a much needed start but his 2nd half lat year was monster and part of the reason Pet Abe’s 44-44 gap was closed — who wil have the monster 2nd half to make up the deficit

    ARod had aa monster year — this year is fine — the difference is mainly lost games — can he have a 2nd half eqaul to last year’s second half.

    Cano seems to be doing his Cano thing — we need all of it

    Giambi – last 20 games not so great we need the Big G to be “even more” — is that fair to make up for the loss of the Posada contribution (equal to last year) and the loss of Matsui — the best cllutch RBI guy

    Pettit was the GOOD ANDY fo rmost of the 2nd half last yearwe need all of that again – BECAUSE we don’t have any WANG — we need another pitcher — Joba looks to be it – WE LOVE IT — but IPK and the Franchise contributed 8 wins down the stretch last year and the TIGERS folded

    Where do we get the 8 wins and do the Red Sox or Rays help us –

    So the offense is not the same and the Starting piching can’y krrp creating 4-0 6-0 holes in the firts 3 innings.

    July has to be a stellar month to place the team in contention – to be slective buyers before the trading deadline.

    The question is what if the Team Is not in position — the strategy is commited to grow from within – to work the Franchise and IPK to go with Joba — do you let the offense age another year at these costs HOPING father time does not steal effectiveness – more- again – or do you deal — and who

    Hope is not a plan — either we are where we need to be oat the end of July or we are not — we need a plan for both realitities.

    Can the team make up 8 games in September? — See last year’s Mets – YES if everyhting goes right — Rays hit a wall – a different wall than last week’s series against the SOX

    The Yankees have to play 10 games better than the Rays to control the East, and at least 6 games better than Boston — which hopefully will take care of the other Wild Card potentials — if Okalnd or the Twins make a run it wil get harder yet

    All of these teams may be lloking to improve the one player they need — remember David Justice — if you are close enough one player can be enough

    What is the plan —

  • Bart

    I am a lifelong Yankee Fan — and I see the passion of all of you who contribute to this thread.

    My fiends you keep arguing the merits of the Hughes Sanatana Trade –

    The deal would not have been Hughes if Cashman had stayed at the table – the Mets did not Give up a Hughes equivalent

    It might have cost IPK but maybe not and Melky for sure plus others — it would have been a good trade

    It is not that IPK and Hughes got hurt — just bad luck – it was bad decision making and bad luck followed

    Cashman blew it – the way he blew Beltran — given Bernbie’s decline and the subsequent need to get Damon for 3 years, and play Melky – Beltran was a steal and maybe just enough of a difference maker that the Yankees do nor fail in successive playoffs — if you don’t like the idea go do so a million runs where the only chnage is Beltran.

    Santana is a difference maker for at leat 3 years and possibley four of his contract — go do a million runs where Santana is the only change in the #1 slot and you use last year’s Moose stats

    Santana is a LEFTY in YANKEE Stadium – Santana is a LEFTY in a league where average lefties are trouble for otherwise good teams

    Santana shelters Joba and Hughes, other 1st/2nd year Pitchers as they mature

    Santana is both cornerstone and bridge to the future

    Santana solidifes the pitching so that you can replace the aging offense – defense in a planned and responsible manner

    AGE most certainly is an issue and always has been – the Orioles declined around Ripken, the Yankees around Mantle and Ford and again around Jackson and Tommy John. See Reds, Pirates, — the Braves sustained excellence in a mediocre division – centered on pitching and changing other parts — they did not grow Maddox. They did not domnate post season play.

    After the DBacks in 2001 – the Yankees became the Braves but with sustained offense and patchwork pitching

    – the Yankees have not had the youth age mix on the Offense or Defense side at the same time to make a solid representation in the Play-Offs/World Series
    — almost there but could not make up for questionable/stupid in game management. Overuse of MO in the first three games against Boston
    — reach for Weaver against the Marlins
    — play Crosby in Ceneter
    — reinsert Matsui and Sheffiel into the lineup against Detroit —

    Think on it — each situation was due to an unbalanced team with a flaw that St Joe made worse — HOPING

    Santana was the right trade – not for HUGES IPK Melky plus others — But for IPK and Melky plus others you do the deal — and this is NOT HINDSIGHT – I advocated as much in December January– and my objective is to get a focus on CASHMAN – for this year and for the future — what is plan A? what is plan B?

    it is Cashman now – George did not interfere — we have to evaluate Cashman’s smarts on their own — what he does in July is critical — what he did with Santana was stupid and arrogant – it was not negotiating

    So please – you do our team a disservice by falling into the Hughes Santana major premise trap