Palmer: Moose might retire

I paid $39.95M, and all I got was a t-shirt
Giambi would come back to the Bronx

Jim Palmer, an old buddy of Mike Mussina’s for his Orioles days, spoke to a MASN reporter yesterday and dropped in a line about Moose’s future. According to Palmer, Mussina told the Hall of Famer that he doesn’t think he’ll pitch in 2009. If Mussina, who goes for win number 20 this weekend, the Yankees would have quite a few rotation holes to fill in the coming months.

I paid $39.95M, and all I got was a t-shirt
Giambi would come back to the Bronx
  • UWS

    I will be sad to see Moose go, and his retirement would indeed create a big hole in the rotation. However, there is definitely something to be said about going out on top and on your own terms. A great last season is a fitting ending to a fantastic career. Go Moose!

  • TurnTwo

    i did find it hard to believe that Moose can pitch any better than he did this season next year, or continue this for a couple more seasons. perhaps he feels the same way.

    i said in a previous thread, there looks like there will be a major overhaul in the starting rotation. taking into a healthy Wang for 2009, you basically have him and Pettitte if he doesnt retire to start the season out of spring training. thats it.

    Girardi said on Francessa yesterday that the rotation was going to get most of the offseason attention, and i dont doubt that from the looks of how this is all shaping out.

  • Relaunch

    Not sure if I have been a hater of Mussina, but I have defintely labeled him for his shortcomings (the Mussina Meltdown – 2 outs not one on, then gives up 6 hits in a row after an error).

    He though has shown alot this year and maybe going out on top is the way he wants to do it. I personally never thought he would be anything near this in 08 and I still dont’ think he will do something like this next year.

    I never thought HOF and Moose should have been in the same sentence a few years back. But looking at him pitching in the AL East, steroid era, his stats are even more impressive.

  • Bo

    Who thought Moose would even be in th rotation on Sept 26?

    They got Pettitte to be the 5th starter next yr. And they can sign two free agents to join Wang and Joba. With Hughes in AAA waiting.

    • Slugger27

      did pettitte commit to pitching in 2009 and tell only u?

  • A.D.

    It would be annoying to loose out on the draft picks

  • Stefan W

    It certainly will make for an interesting offseason discussion. This makes it pretty much a given that we will sign a pitcher this offseason.

    Wang is the only starter under contract guaranteed a spot. Pettitte is likely to re-sign, although who knows what we’ll get out of him. We’re likely signing a free agent, whether it’s CC, AJ, or……uh……BS. That leaves 2 spots open.

    We COULD sign a second starter, but I’m not sure if Cashman is so keen on locking up 2 starters to long-term deals, especially in the same year. Last time that happened we got burned big-time (Pavano and Wright). Besides, I’m pretty sure Wang is eligible for arbitration again, so even with the freed-up payroll, there isn’t going to be THAT much wiggle room.

    So it goes back to the kids: Hughes, Aceves, Joba, and Kennedy. Can we rely on 2 of them? Hughes made a huge statement the other day, and Aceves has done quite well. I think we’ll see them both competing in Spring Training. Kennedy, on the other hand, needs to work on his stuff.

    Mid-season, we could see Jeff Marquez, Phil Coke, and possibly Eric Hacker pushing for a rotation spot if somebody falters. God only knows what’s going to happen with Alan Horne this offseason.

    Is Joba starting the season in the bullpen again? Because if he goes to Winter ball and racks up 40 or so innings, he should be ready for 170-180 innings next season. I don’t see why he wouldn’t go back to the rotation at the get-go. If he needs a break, they can just shut him down for a few weeks with the patented Wilson Betemit conjunctivitis. I may have forgotten about a statement the Front Office made about Joba’s status next year, so remind me.

  • radnom

    Eh, I think this makes it more likely he will come back on a one year deal.

    If I knew he was totally committed to pitching, I would consider him gone, off on a 2-3 year contract in the NL somewhere.

  • kenthadley

    I have no problem signing Oliver Perez if we see him as a #3-4….which means we still need to sign/obtain a primo…..and I dont see Joba as a starter unless we come up with a real potential fill-in for Mo in 2009…..arm miseries tell me he is still great, but also will be 40 and cannot be expected to carry the entire burden himself, at least not for a team that considers itself playoff caliber…..Joba is the logical fill-in for next year, not Melancon (yet)……

    • Ben K.

      Oliver Perez? No way. This is the same Oliver Perez who, in the NL East, has a below average ERA and has allowed over 100 walks in 188 innings.

      • kenthadley

        factor in lefty at Yankee Stadium……I’m going under the assumption that CC wants to use the Yanks to build up his west coast contract, and that we also are looking at AJ……if you dont get CC, you still need arms……and the Yanks prefer to sign them rather than trade for them, since the system is not yet chock-filled with talent that is movable for a significant arm… I am looking at the alternatives…..I’d rather a strong armed Ollie in Yankee Stadium than a sore armed Sheets…..I understand your reservations, and they have merit…but I dont want to go into next year without significant upgrades in talent and depth… more Rasners and Ponsons, please…..

        • Slugger27

          i brought this up yesterday, but i think derek lowe on a say 3 yr 50 mill deal would be a good alternative to not landing CC… hes had success in this division, hes durable, and while not sexy like burnett or sheets, he could post solid numbers and solidify the back end of the rotation

          less risk and commitment than burnett while ((look at the numbers)) pretty similar production

          • Ben K.

            Paying someone nearly $17 million a year to solidify the back end of the rotation seems like a colossal waste of money. If the team’s going to spend that much, they better land themselves a number one.

            • Slugger27

              i agree its overpaying… but its gonna take that same annual salary to land burnett, and burnett will want more than 3 years

              if u take away his games vs the yankees, his stats ((aside from Ks)) arent mind blowing… derek lowe has pitched 200 innings 4 years in a row with a sound ERA usually in the 3.50 range… i realize its in the national league, but thats pretty consistent production

              if the yankees are willing to consider burnett, they should be willing to consider lowe is all im saying…. u can say for 17M u want a no. 1, but u can bring up all the road splits u want and i still wont think burnett has no. 1 numbers

              at the end of the day its still overpaying… but for roughly the same annual salary burnett will want, u will be committing less years ((presumably)) and less risk given lowes impressive track record and health and effectiveness

          • kenthadley

            Lowe will be 37…..if we do that, we might as well bring both Pettitte and Mussina back…..concerns over OP are valid, but match it against the available options…

            • Ben K.

              Lowe also has some very dramatic home-road splits. His ERA shoots up by 2.27 runs on the road, and his OPS goes up more than .200 points. That’s rather alarming.

              • Chris

                Not to mention that he’s pitching in the NL West, which is only slightly better than AAA.

    • Slugger27

      this is the umpteenth person to suggest oliver perez, and i still cant figure out why… the guy sucks, hes walked more ppl ((102)) than any met pitcher in 25 years, and hes been criticized for pitching poorly in big games

      if there was ANY thought in the yankee brass to bring him ((which i cant imagine there was)) his implosion the other night against the cubs confirmed what most of us know…. hes just not that good

    • radnom

      “I have no problem signing Oliver Perez if we see him as a #3-4”

      Fine, fair enough………only thing is he ain’t going to be signed for “#3-4” type money.

      • kenthadley

        I dont think his performance warrents more than that, but you could be right….never underestimate the idiocy of the owners during the winter……

  • Capital T

    My bet is that Moose comes back on a 1yr deal. He reminds me of the vets who at the end of the season are tired and need to get away but by the time Feb rolls around they have no idea what to do with themselves and want to get back in it.

    Add that to needing only 31 more Ws and he hits 300 and it would be tough to walk. 2 Good seasons but most likely 3 would get him there. His current pitching style lends itself to being able to continue for a few more ala Moyer. Its not like throwing low 80s fastball is very taxing.

    • kenthadley

      good points…..a Pettitte type arrangement would get him back in NY…..even the Mets would do that……

  • Bryan

    How many draft picks do the yanks get if they let Giambi, Abreu, and pettite go? and what happens if they sign CC who is a type-A? are they getting at least a 1st round draft pick?

    • Kyle D.

      Yanks will have a first round pick even if they sign a Type-A FA because Gerritt Cole didn’t sign. Those replacement picks are protected. However, their other first round that they have just due to the draft would be gone, as we’re not in the bottom half of the league.

  • ortforshort

    Apparently, Mussina has begun the bargaining already. I’m saying he wants two years at Pettitte money (16M per year).

  • tommiesmithjohncarlos

    Okay, here’s the list again:

    2009 Free Agent Starting Pitchers
    Kris Benson PHI
    A.J. Burnett TOR
    Paul Byrd BOS
    Ryan Dempster CHC
    Jon Garland LAA
    Tom Glavine ATL
    Mike Hampton ATL
    Orlando Hernandez NYM
    Jason Jennings TEX
    Randy Johnson ARZ
    John Lackey LAA
    Esteban Loaiza CHW
    Braden Looper STL
    Derek Lowe LAD
    Pedro Martinez NYM
    Mike Mussina NYY
    Jamie Moyer PHI
    Mark Mulder STL
    Carl Pavano NYY
    Brad Penny LAD
    Odalis Perez WAS
    Oliver Perez NYM
    Andy Pettitte NYY
    Mark Prior SD
    Horacio Ramirez CHW
    C.C. Sabathia MIL
    Ben Sheets MIL
    John Smoltz ATL
    Julian Tavarez ATL
    Steve Trachsel BAL
    Brett Tomko SD
    Claudio Vargas MIL
    Randy Wolf HOU

    A) Sign CC. This has been spelled out many times, no need to rehash it here. We can afford it, nobody can outbid us, and there are no other realistic landing spots for him.
    B) Doomsday scenario, both Moose and Pettitte decide to not come back, we should probably sign a second FA starter. But, with CC, Wang, and Joba in the fold we don’t need another ace, especially with Hughes, IPK, Brackman, Betances, McAllister et. al. still in the pipeline (at least one of those guys is bound to be good, probably two.) And not only should the second starter not be an ace, he shouldn’t be expensive or a Type A either… no sense losing a draft pick for a 4th starter. So cross off Burnett, Sheets, and Perez. I’m thinking something more along the lines of a 2-3 year deal with an AAV in the 6-8M range. Let’s take a look at that list again:

    ’09 Free Agents, organized by tier:

    1st Tier
    CC Sabathia MIL

    2nd Tier
    A.J. Burnett TOR
    Ben Sheets MIL
    John Lackey LAA
    Brad Penny LAD

    3rd Tier
    Oliver Perez NYM
    Ryan Dempster CHC
    Jon Garland LAA
    Derek Lowe LAD
    Mike Mussina NYY
    Andy Pettitte NYY
    Braden Looper STL

    4th Tier
    too shitty, old, or injury prone to list

    So, in looking at how the list shakes out, CC should get his 22M+ up front; Lackey and Penny probably reup with their clubs in LA, IMO, leaving Burnett and Sheets as the only two targets to get frontline starter deals in the 14-19M range. So after the top three names go, now you’ve got 12 to 16 teams willing to spend looking at that third tier… I think all of them could get deals with AAV’s north of 8M. (yes, including Ollie Perez).

    There probably won’t be a good option available to sign a second starting pitcher.

    I think we should just sign CC, try like hell to convince either Moose or Pettitte to come back for one last hurrah, and spend the rest of our mad money on offense.

  • Bill

    This is a kind of surprise I thought for sure that Moose would be pitching next year and that the question was whether or not he’d be willing to take a 1-year deal when he could probably get 2 or even 3 years somewhere else.

    It doesn’t make sense to me. As a borderline hall of famer you’d think he’d want to play a little longer to ensure that. While he won’t get to 300 wins in one more year another solid year and he is still a lot closer. A 20-win season this year would help, but even still I don’t think its enough right now with no rings and no Cy Youngs.

    The plan for the Yankees should be to go all out and offer CC enough to sway him from going to Cali.

    Then they should look to bring in 2 of the following starters:

    If Mosoe and Pettite will sign 1-year deals you forget about Burnett who while talented is a big injury risk and will want a multi-year deal. If Moose or Pettitte decides to retire you look to lock up Burnett and hope he stays healthy. Sheets would be the 4th option as he is also an injury risk and has no AL experience and will likely cost about the same as Burnett.

    • Hitman

      It’ll be something else to ad to his resume. Almost 300 game winner and almost hall of famer. If he retires he would have kept his reputation in tact.

  • Hitman

    The yankees should have let him go in 2006 and taken those two picks for him. But of course they had to re-sign him.

    • tommiesmithjohncarlos

      While I admit I was against bringing Moose back for two more years back in the winter of 2006, in hindsight it was certainly a better option than letting him walk and investing in some of the alternatives, like Adam Eaton, Mark Mulder, Vicente Padilla, Jason Schmidt, Jeff Suppan, Kip Wells, Woody Williams, or Kei Igawa.

      (What’s that you say? We did sign Kei Igawa? Naw, get outta here, we’d never be that dumb…)

  • Hitman

    The yankees got one useful year out of him in a lost season. It wasn’t worth it.

  • dkidd

    any chance lackey or penny could be lured out of socal?