NLCS Game 1: Dodgers @ Phillies
ByBoth League Championship Series this year are a lesson in player development. The Dodgers flat-out dominated the Cubs using a lineup featuring four homegrown players and a pitching staff again centered around in-house arms. The Phils are built very much in the same way, with five homegrown position players starting for them, as well as staff co-aces Cole Hamels & Brett Myers.
Don’t even get me started with the Rays and Red Sox. Stay the course, built from within. Looks where it gets you.
Just a quick roster note, the Dodgers removed ex-closer Takashi Saito from the playoff roster and replaced him with lights out lefty reliever Hong-Chih Kuo. Saito’s status was questionable because of ongoing elbow troubles, and Kuo (who had a ridiculous season) gives them a third southpaw in the pen (Kershaw & Beimel are the others) to battle Chase Utley and Ryan Howard.
First pitch is scheduled for 8:22pm; Joe Buck & Tim McCarver have the call on FOX. Talk it up here.
Los Angeles
1. Rafael Furcal, SS
2. Andre Ethier, RF
3. Manny Ramirez, LF
4. Russ Martin, C
5. James Loney, 1B
6. Matt Kemp, CF
7. Casey Blake, 3B
8. Blake DeWitt, 2B
9. Derek Lowe, P (14-11, 3.24)
Philadelphia
1. Jimmy Rollins, SS
2. Shane Victorino, CF
3. Chase Utley, 2B
4. Ryan Howard, 1B
5. Pat Burrell, LF
6. Jayson Werth, RF
7. Pedro Feliz, 3B
8. Carlos Ruiz, C
9. Cole Hamels, P (14-10, 3.09)
Hopefully next season the yanks are in the same position with our players like Hughes, Joba, IPK, Melancon or Gardner or even maybe just maybe A-Jax.
I’m sure a lot of people will disagree with me on this, but I honestly don’t want to see Austin Jackson in the Bronx in 2009 (unless it’s just a short, late-season cameo to reward a job well done in the minors). He’s young and hasn’t been playing baseball full-time for too long, I want that guy in the minors, working on his game and just getting more experience and time to develop. (AJax wasn’t a big part of your comment, I just notice people talking about him a lot and I think if he’s not in the Bronx in 2009 some fans will be disappointed. Dude should be a senior in college right now, no reason to even think about him in the majors until 2010 or later (unless he turns into a young Ken Griffey Jr., which he won’t).
I agree. Just because a guy spends a year in AAA doesn’t mean he’s a bust. He’s only been a full-time baseball player for 3 years now.
The only way we see A-Jax is if he straight tears up AAA & there is issues at CF again
Yo, I was reading your chat just now, and you answered one of the questions about who would ya take between Tex or CC, and you picked Tex.
I thought about it, and I said to myself, that maybe it wouldn’t be a bad idea. The yanks despite the poor defense and injuries to the staff, was ranked in the middle in pitching which is quite solid/ok. The yanks didn’t make the postseason because of the offense and the lack of OBP guys.
Maybe, just maybe Tex is the more smarter move. Plus, signing a pitcher like Lowe wouldn’t be a bad idea no.
Rotation
Wang
Joba
Lowe
Pettitte/Moose
Hughes.
Good staff with improve d with Tex.
The lineup looks much better.
Maybe Tex is the right move.
Tex is also the safer move, in terms of health/production for full life of contract
Yeah, I came to that conclusion a couple weeks ago. I was in favor of that path because I felt bringing back Mike Mussina, Andy Pettitte and Carl Pavano were enough to give us a good, pretty deep, short-termed rotation. With Joba Chamberlain penciled in as a starter from April, he and Chien-Ming Wang would lead a somewhat deep rotation with Phil Hughes, Ian Kennedy, Alfredo Aceves and Darrell Rasner as replacement-level starters.
I really think this team needs an overhaul with the glove. The Yankees ranked 27th out of 30-Major League clubs in DIP%. That is absolutely horrific. The defense is really letting these pitchers down.
If you want to use FIP, the Yankees ranked fourth in the Major Leagues in that stat (3.98, second in the A.L. to TOR’s 3.82). The pitching has not been an issue for the Yankees, it’s actually one of the top pitching staffs in all of baseball (independent of the defense, of course). It’s the defense, it’s fucking horrible.
Hell, I could go on. The Yankees convert 68% of all balls put into play into actual outs. That rate ranks 25th in MLB. No matter how you look at it, this team is scary bad on defense.
Brett Gardner.
I dont care what he hits, just catch the ball.
BTW-Dump Abreu, too.
if you look at SG’s work at RLYW, Abreu is MOST of the problem.
Abreu and Giambi.
The Yanks trail the Red Sox by about three years.
They can certainly make the playoffs next year, but the years to really look forward to, if everything works out, are 2011, 2012.
Now thats not very optimistic of you.
I would listen to John Madden and a shitfaced Pat Sumerall call this game over Buck and McCarver. In fact, I would prefer Frank Caliendo as both John Madden and Pat Summerall. I wish truly terrible, awful things on Joe Buck.
Don’t give him anything to hit. Take your chances with Martin.
Told you. That was as far up the wall as possible in the deepest part of the park.
You would think.
You and McCarver are like soulmates.
I would have went with “Butt buddies” but then again, I’m an asshole.
Well, McCarver was a catcher.
Okay, that went way too far.
Wow Manny drove that ball.
Manny es el senor.
Ahahaha.
The Spanish announcers: “We’re in Citizens Bank Park, one of the only banks that has not yet collapsed…”
Seriously? That’s great.
What I heard was:
Estamos en Citizens Bank Park, Citzens Bank, la unica que no he collapsada
My Spanish is far from fluent, but it’s good enough to understand that. (I’m listening in Spanish because I need the practice, and there have got to be young Dominican players in need of translators, since the medieval history job market is kind of thin).
The Dow has lost 40% since last year. Yikes.
It was doing relatively all right today and then lost about 500 points in one hour or so.
My father tells me i should watch out for the jumpers, although I’m in the Bronx and far away from Wall Street.
It went from ~11,000 to ~8,600 in like, 4 days. Scary stuff.
The Economy hasn’t been this bad in like 80 years. Were talking great depression bad Yikes.
It’s bad but let’s hold off on the “Great Depression” talk for a little while, we’re certainly not there yet.
Word. We ain’t seen nuttin’ yet.
Ivan’s right–it’s not been this bad since the Great Depression.
The thing is, the stock/bank cycles haven’t bottomed out yet, and because so much depends on the banks, we can’t just weather this like we could the collapse of the tech stocks.
Well I didn’t mean it was the Great Depression but stats show that it’s worst than what happen in the late 80’s/early 90’s and worst in the 70’s when Carter was president.
Yeah, that’s overdoing it. But you can expect the economy to suck for at least the next few years. Shit like this is years in the making, and it takes years to dig out of it.
The Great Depression was a global economic collapse that lasted for over a decade. People were wandering the country looking for jobs and food. All I’m saying is, it’s very easy for people to say “oh this is like the Great Depression” whenever there’s an economic downturn, but it’s really just not. This is very very bad, what’s going on now. I know first-hand, I work in an industry that is very directly affected/involved in this whole mess. But it’s not like the Great Depression yet.
Annnnd sorry for that little depressing distraction there. Back to baseball, huh?
yeah the average recession lasts about 1-3 years, not the decade of the great depression
Actually, the Dow lost 40% in the early 70’s and it didn’t lead to a depression. But as a kid who grew up back then I can confirm to you that the 70’s did suck for the country for the most part.
But the Yanks won in 1977 and 78, so I was happy.
a lot of that is fueled by nonsense, stocks are dropping that really have nothing to do with either banking, or consumer spending
If Banks cant lend, businesses cant grow and expend. The Stock market is the last place to figure out whats going on, the credit markets have been tightening for weeks now.
BTW-Its not just here. Its happening in Germany, Japan, The UK, all over the place. That’s why this is so bad, there’s nowhere to turn.
Check out Iceland–the entire country is built on the banking industry there…
i understand that, which is why noted that business that aren’t effected by this, such as cash-rich, in-elastic demand groups, such as say Pharmacos, are still down, despite the fact that the credit markets should not effect them.
They shouldnt be down, not to the point they are, but its a wild sell off in which some makes sense, and obv. there are some issues, but some is completely illogical
Manny made Joe Torre a genius didn’t he?
No. Jeter, Rivera, Bernie, Posada and Pettitte did.
Well said.
I’d also add O’Neill and Wells and Cone at their peaks.
“Cone at their peaks”
Ugh.
I HATED those silly Coneheads. Met fans can be so cheesy sometimes.
And some cuban name El’Duke.
What ever happened to el duqecito, the kid that had a similar motion the yanks singed out of cuba
Adrian Hernandez. They released him in 2003. He caught on with the Brewers and made a few terrible appearances for them the next year. He’s been out of baseball since 2004.
Manny Ramirez-Manager of the Year
Love that Lowe was shaking off Martin when Martin wasnt even looking at him
I feel like every scoreless inning Lowe throws brings him closer to being coveted/signed by the Yankees. Ugh. Feel like people are warming up to the idea of signing him, I still don’t want him.
id rather have pavano for 1 yr 13 mil than lowe at 3 or 4
Not sure how I feel about Pavano for 13 mil, but Lowe scares me… And I agree, those last couple/few years of whatever contract he signs are a major risk.
yeah I’d be scared having Lowe in the AL east, theres a reason Boston didn’t resign him
Me neither. Look up his last few years in the AL East. That would be another Kevin Brown situation, an over the hill pitcher who put up good numbers in the weakest division in baseball.
To be fair, I think Lowe is about Plan F for the Yanks, after CC, Andy, Burnett, Mussina, and Peavey. In that order.
What does his last 2 years with Boston have to do with anything? That was 4, soon to be 5 years ago.
Should they sign Esteban Loiaza because he was awesome in 2003? That was in the AL.
Dude I hear you, but at the same time, that was when he was 4, 5 years younger. It cuts both ways. (And you know that Esteban Loiaza thing isn’t relevant lol,)
Because he sucked the last time he was in the AL East, and he’s 4 years older now. He’s still the same pitcher from what I know, so I cant expect him to be any better at an advanced age.
BTW-Maybe you misunderstood, I dont want him.
He meant that his last two years pitching in the relevant decision were not pretty, so now 4, soon to be 5, years later, he couldn’t be expected to put up even those lackluster lines
Yo Mike. Are your for or against the 5 game divisional series?
It doesn’t really matter to me. I guess a 7 game series would be nice, gives us that much more baseball. Plus MLB would make a bunch more money.
I’d be all for a 7 game series, but they’d have to chop some regular season games from the schedule or else the World Series would be played under threat of snow (and we all know they’ll never cut regular season games).
I like the idea of ADDING a wild card, and making the two of them play a Play-in game on the off day.
That would be a huge incentive for WC teams to win their divisions, and would likely screw them up for the ALDS. 3 cities in 3 days, probably used their ace, etc.
I’m so sick of the divisions and leagues meaning little to nothing in the current set up. Having the best record in your league should give you an advantage of some kind that doesn’t disappear after one loss at home.
But the Wild Card team is sometimes the best team in the playoffs. Just look at it, Over the past few years i think the WC winner has gone to and even won the WS in some cases. so thats not fair.
But the Wild Card team is sometimes the best team in the playoffs.
You know I think that is? The WC is usually clinched real late in the season, the last series of the season usually. The team that wins the WC just keeps the momentum going, there’s no letdown period.
Look at the Halos, they clinched the division with a month left in the season, then played nothing but meaningless games for weeks. It’s hard to muster that level of intensity that quick.
Not the best team, AKA most deserving of the playoff spot, but the best team playing in the playoffs. But very fair points.
His point, which I agree with (but it’s subjective), is that there should be more emphasis placed on winning your division. Even if the WC team is the “best team”, he’s saying the division winners should be given more of an advantage as reward for winning their division, whether they’re the best team or not.
And just because a team wins the WS does NOT make that team the “best team.” The Cardinals won 83 games the year they won the WS. That team had no business being in the playoffs. Playoff entrance and seeding should be based on regular season performance, not postseason potential.
(Read what I said in reply to Mikes comment) What I said was out of conteXt.
no worries, i saw the response above
Casey Blake is a FA, who needs Tex when you can have the definition of grit
His grititude will drop significantly when he has to shave off his GritBeard. It’s a shame.
true probably wouldnt come to NY
Thats OK. He could just shave his head and become an instant “Gamer”.
Hamels is gonna dominate the rest of this game….until Manny comes up
Why isn’t there more discussion of Dempster being a FA?
I’ve read that the Cubs are expected to lock him up. Apparently he wants to stay and they want to pay him.
I figured as much, but wanted to check
Also might have something to do with him absolutely sucking in the ALDS.
It was the NLDS, and I disagree. I’m pretty sure he’s been expected to re-sign with the Cubbies since way before the NLDS, and I don’t think teams would be too scared off by a bad start in a playoff series after the season he had this year.
Yeah, considering he was their most consistent regular season starter. Not their best starter, which is Zambrano but their most consistent was Dempster
NLDS ?
Yes.
Still have ALDS on the brain from a Wang post.
CC wasnt amazing and that hasn’t stopped any talk
Take into consideration that he pitched like 5 games in 15days or something around there. The man is human you know.
After throwing a gazillion pitches for MIL since being traded.
Lowe as our 4th starter is fine.. Look at Moose las year he sucked, but this year he turned it around and dominated and turned into our 1.. Who knows if Lowe can do the same.. If he can put an era of 3.80 or lower as our 4th I could be happy with that.. Im all for the idea of signing 2 of those 3 of CC AJ and Lowe
You want to spend 15MM per for a fourth starter? Carlos Silva sucks and he got 12 mil per. Lowe will get 15 easy. If it was a one-year deal, I’d do that. Since it’ll be 3 or 4, hells no.
Fine hes our 3 starter
CC
Wang
Lowe
Joba
Phil
Speaking of sinker ballers remember las year they said it was good Wang was going on short rest so he could get more sink on his sinker lol.. He pitched well that game right ? ……………….
I guess you mean the 2007 ALDS. Yeah he was bad, but he was bad all of September that year and Torre should have took that into account. Instead, he pitched him on the road (where he was bad all year) and at home on short rest (which Wang never did before). Between that and not pulling his team off the field during the midges, it wasn’t one of Joe’s better managerial jobs.
You know we can talk about which pitcher the yanks need/or gonna get but to me the key for the yanks rotation, is Joba and Hughes. You need those arms to pitch well and I think they will.
I posted this up above, not realizing how far the conversation had moved along:
http://riveraveblues.com/2008/.....ent-177371
As that said, I’m really not worried about the pitching staff, it’s the defense. I know Joba and Hughes are important for 2009, but I think the bigger factors are the return of Mike Mussina and a healthy Andy Pettitte. Approximately 400 of league-average or better innings are quite impossible to replace.
that and a full year from Wang
I agree that the D needs to step up. Maybe signing Tex wouldn’t be so bad. He’s arguebaly the best 1st baseman defensively and can save some E’s from infield and make much plays than Giambi.
Signing Tex would bring a smile to every Yankee fans face
It’s not even about the Errors, the Yankees are pretty sure-handed. It’s just that they don’t convert enough batted balls into outs. Melky Cabrera, Alex Rodriguez and Derek Jeter rank second-to-worst or worst in Range Factor (in their respective positions). Jason Giambi is dead last in Zone Rating, Robinson Cano fell off a cliff, defensively, after the ASB, and Bobby Abreu was the worst defensive Right Fielder in the American League.
Wasn’t Melky third in the AL in defense in CF?
Agreed but it sounds worse than it really is.. If we put up the offensive numbers we were suppose to we would of been in the playoffs..I dont know if we would still be there tho
Jamal, Range Factor is worthless.
Jeter, Melky and A-Rod were all fine this year on defense.
Worthless, in my opinion, is reserved for stats like Fielding Percentage and Errors. How many plays a fielder converts – per game – is not worthless.
Range Factor is Put outs plus assists divided by INNINGS.
there is nothing that controls for chances.
if a player doesn’t have a ball hit at him all game, his RF is zero.
that’s worse than worthless.
Yes, but you are taking it to an extreme level. Over the course of a 162-game season, the Total Chances even out. You know the difference between the Third Basemen who led the Major Leagues in TC’s and the Major League Third Basemen with the least amount of TC’s (with 1,100-innings played or more)? 91.
I think bringing one of those guys back is important, whether it’s moose or Pettitte.
Joe Sheenan even wrote about that in his article months back.
You know how you know you’re a bad baseball analyst? When you are dumbfounded by the Robinson-Cano-Carlos-Beltran trade rumors, but from the Mets’ POV.
Oh, Peter.
leave the geezer alone.
its because none of the players in that deal are as good a Jacoby Ellsbury
Manny being defensive.
Double Play FTL.
filthy change
Some of those LA injuries might not have been the worst…. I mean it was no guarentee Nomar or Jones put up amazing numbers
Lmao. Did anyone else notice that IPK’s agent is Boras?
I think I’ve seen that before.
yeah i remember that from when he was drafted, and part of the Cole signing was they have no problem with dealing and understanding Boras, or taking his 1st round players, ie IPK
* Cole pick
Ya I know coming out of college thinking hes hot shit out of USC….they match up well
Not for nothing, but did you read any of his comments after that Angels’ game? He made a mistake, he moved on, he owned up to it, and yet people still belittle him for it?
Who me?
What’s so funny about that?
Just the thought of Boras trying to get IPK a lucrative contract would crack me up.
Just couldn’t hold back, huh. lol
What? What’s so funny with the kid hiring the agent that will get him the most money? I’d want my kid to hire Boras if he was ever in that kind of situation.
Look at the Boras’ clients list on MLBTR, there’s way more crappy players than All-Stars on that list.
No I totally agree, I don’t see what’s funny about it either. I was sitting here, like, forcing myself not to respond. When I saw your comment pop up I figured you were thinking the same thing and just couldn’t stop yourself.
Ah ok. Great minds think alike.
Except when it comes to Derek Lowe. F’ng Derek Lowe.
I know I saw the list and that’s when I noticed it said IPK on it, and immediately I scrolled back up cause I couldn’t believe my eyes. The funny part is me imagining how Boras would probably fire himself.
I thought he really waited for guys to get legitimatized before having them as his client. Are agents particularly involved in the draft? I’m sure they are to some extent but how much? We see it all the time where guys get drafted and decide to not sign for personal/family choice, for example, not too many people realize that Aaron Heilman was drafted by the Yankees years and years ago. In fact i think he was drafted a few times before signing.
The Yankees drafted Mark Prior. I just blew your mind. Boom.
Oh yeah? Well you know who else they drafted?
Ready? Are you ready?
Casey Blake.
Boom. All day baby. ‘Til you throw up.
Nah, Aaron Heilman is more mind blowing.
I think you should do a thread on this some day, the crazy Yankee unsigned draft picks. We can have some real fun with that.
How different the world would be if the Yankees had a little Casey Blake action. You win.
Late bloomer, the guy didn’t start anything special until he turned 30. He was Put on waivers/released a total of 4 times. So that isn’t so fair to say.
It was a joke, as has been this entire conversation.
Better question: Is Boras now a metonym for greedy sports agents?
Even better question: what the hell does metonym mean?
Yeah that’s that I’m waiting for, Then ill throw in my two cents.
She means metonymy.
And calling a sports’ agent “greedy” is not necessarily a bad thing. It’s their job to get the most for their respective clients. I really don’t see why fans and media personnel hate Scott Boras and Drew Rosenhaus.
Oh, forgot to answer your question. Yeah, I guess so.
They’re lawyers, and like the old line about Roy Cohn went “Everybody hated the guy . . until they got arrested”
Just depends what side of the fence your on.
It’s not that their trying to get money for their clients–it’s that their so shameless about it.
Though I guess they’re supposed to be.
Makes them easy and fun to hate.
It’s business, there’s no room for displaying shame and things of that sort. You think the teams worry about that? Baseball organizations literally find everything possible to undervalue a player’s performance in their respective arbitration hearings. Wouldn’t you classify that as shameless?
Oh, of course.
BetterRhetorical question: Is Boras now a metonym for greedy sports agents?(Fixed.)
Ahaha.
You win.
That’s what you get for using fancy words nobody understands.
You get fork-stabbed!!! (Someone’s gotta get that.)
Sounds painful.
And I read regularly about guys that die in very painful ways. I’d give you an example, but it’d violate the comment guidelines.
Funny enough, that’s the second most interesting thing I’ve discovered all day.
(Someone’s gotta get that.)
*** crickets ***
Haha, shut up. Nobody ever gets my references around here. A-holes.
No one got my Family Guy reference. It’s okay.
PS it’s from “It’s Always Sunny…”
Dude, I don’t get references to animal house.
So, uh, good luck with that.
i don’t see the difference between “greedy” and “good at his job”
his job, by definition, is to get the most money for his clients.
why should players settle for less than the billionaire owners are willing to pay?
is he a jerk? yeah.
but greedy? i don’t know. maybe.
Of course he’s greedy, but he’s supposed to be. That’s his job.
Oh he’s so greeeeedy! He makes his clients so much money! What an *sshole!
Whatever. Good for him.
It’s like a metaphor, but more…abstract, maybe?
Wall Street is a metonym for the American Financial System
Buckingham Palace ” ” for the Royal Family
Bristol ” ” ESPN headquarters.
I’m having a hard time thinking of non geographic ones, but they exist.
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Metonymy
learn something every day
I dont believe you. I still think you just made it up.
Oh yeah? Well you are a vestigio. See I can make up words too.
WHAT!?
I will not be called a vestigio by a plontuphenous turducken like YOU!
Isn’t turducken actually a word? I mean, not in the dictionary or anything, but isn’t it that terrifying meat concoction that John Madden eats on Thanksgiving?
Only if it has a Wikipedia page.
Right, Rebecca?
Ahahaha.
Or an Urban Dictionary page.
I’ve tried to post a comment containing the wiki page for turducken twice but my comment won’t go through (caught in a filter or something).
Turducken has a wikipedia page.
A Turducken is a dish consisting of a partially de-boned turkey stuffed with a de-boned duck, which itself is stuffed with a small de-boned chicken.
Haha. I can’t help but laugh at that. Mo bless America.
Does Madden still do one of the Thanksgiving-day games? I’m telling you, the guy has a huge turducken cooking during the game, and then after the game he starts ripping pieces off and eating it and giving it to the crew. It’s, like, amazing and completely revolting rolled into one.
A Noble Spirit Embiggens The Smallest Man.
“You know, I never heard of that word ‘embiggens’ before I moved to this town.”
“I don’t know why, it’s a perfectly cromulent word…”
Victorino trying to take out D-Lowe
Lowe is real solid so far
He’s got a good record in big game situations, apparently.
I believe this qualifies as a big game.
“Red Sox fans will remeber this hit”…. despite the game having nothing to do with the sox McCarver gets it in
Haha victorino tripped, and the grabbed onto Lowe
If A-Rod would have done that…
Nice play
Does Kent retire after this season?
He should.
just joined the thread. i have a sinking feeling we sign lowe and he posts a 5.83 era in 2009
Anyone else picking up on how the FOX commentators are extra sympathetic to the Dodgers for their injury issues but when there is a Yankee game they can give a rats ass?
I don’t think Furcal has seen anything but a change-up.
There was a time I used to confuse Furcal and Pujols.
Not, uh, any more.
I like how nobody mentions Jack McCormick, the famed traveling secretary, belittled Manny Ramirez in front of the entire Boston clubhouse beforehand.
Well, that’s different than being physically assaulted.
thats not what the ‘nation wants to hear
Dude defend Manny all you want, I think he’s an amazing baseball player too… But you can’t defend him for pushing that guy to the ground. That’s something he shouldn’t have done and it can’t be excused.
Dig that. Him & Pedro were much the same in my little black shitlist book. They were both amazing players, who killed the Yanks for the Sox, and were total assholes. While most of my hatred evaporates when they leave Boston, Pedro bouncing Don Zimmer & Manny pushing down an old man who, as Jamal says, belittled him, are both A #1 Not Cool
Oh, no, I’m not saying it justifies it (for the record, neither did Manny). I’m just using it to go against the notion that McCormick was some unassuming guy, and the shove by Manny had nothing to do with the actions of Mr. McCormick.
Eh, agree to disagree here. You’re taking one side of the story as fact and disregarding the other side. I actually never heard that McCormick was getting in Manny’s face in front of the team, I heard that Manny had made a completely unreasonable demand for a ton of tickets to a sold-out game and McCormick couldn’t fill the request and Manny freaked out on him. And honestly, even if McCormick said something inappropriate to him, Manny’s a professional athlete and a young man, he simply can’t act out physically against an old man. I don’t give a shit what McCormick said.
However, I am positive that Ed Wade got into the face of Chacon using profanity while screaming. (link)
Yeah that was widely reported, but we’re not discussing Chacon’s situation here, we’re discussing Manny’s.
No I know but you commented on my take on the situation. I wanted you to see my point, Don’t shy away.
Huh? What did I shy away from?
The comment you responded to was a response to Jamal, not you. Different conversation.
I know it was, I wanted to get your attention to get my point to you.
Actually, I’m just curious, can you provide a link to an article saying that McCormick acted inappropriately? Do you remember where you may have read that? I just never heard that before tonight, curious to read about it.
Shawn Chacon, the guy who nobody ever said a bad thing about until the incident was viewed as Satan when he threw that guy on the floor. When Manny pulled this stunt I think it was covered for about 12 hours. Gotta love that ESPN bias.
Well, Chacon pushed down his BOSS, not a traveling secretary. I agree with you about the bias, but Chacon was infinitely more stupid because it was:
A: His boss
B: He’s not a Manny Ramirez caliber star
First of all… Chacon attacked the team’s general manager. As I understand it, he tackled the guy like he was going to beat him up. Now, I think what Manny did was just as bad, but it’s a little more high-profile when you take a guy down like you’re going to beat him up (and he’s the GM). Also… I think ESPN covered the Manny thing a ton. Sometimes we see bias where it doesn’t exist, just because WE’re biased.
I can care less who it is, You are a highly paid athlete, how much does it take out of you to keep your cool? I mean really. Does it matter whether it was a traveling secretary or a GM? just because his place on the totem pole doesn’t make a heated assault less or more wrong. The Chacon thing was covered for about 3 or so days. The Manny incident got maybe a day’s coverage. And isn’t that contradictory lastclown? Your second point that is.
I don’t think you actually know how much coverage the respective incidents got. Just a hunch.
I’m positive how much coverage the incidents got. It was biased. Bottom line, You have every right to disagree, all I’m saying is that as a face of a franchise who assaulted a person in association with the team, he didn’t nearly get as much negative coverage as he deserved.
Im not sure what you’re saying is contradictory.
I saw plenty of coverage, though I can’t say for how many days, on both stories. The bias I was referring to was the attitude that Manny will get something of a wash in the MSM, while Chacon may have to deal with the albatross of that experience for a while. This is just my conjecture, but I made it.
BUT, the reason for this is Manny is a superstar. Whether in sports or otherwise, superstars get the VIP treatment, and their mistakes are brushed under the carpet on many occasions. I’m not making a point as to whether or not this is right or wrong, but it just is.
That said, Chacon should have known he’d have no chance of getting away with that, I don’t know if Manny would have gotten away with tackling Theo Epstein either. But the traveling secretary can be transgressed with the offending party knowing full-well he’ll get away with it.
Again, not right or wrong, just assessment of the situation.
Your saying Chacon isn’t a Manny type superstar. That’s irrelevant to the situation. Chacon was BASHED by the media for that incident. Manny hardly took any lashes,due to the usual ESPN bias.
Seriously. They wrote it off as Manny being Manny.
Thank you very much.
But that’s my point. It’s exactly relevant to the situation.
Like I said first, I agree with you about the bias. But if I was Shawn Chacon, I would be aware of such a bias, and know that there’s no cushiony, cute little catchphrase to ease my troubles, ergo I would not attack the GM.
Again, I’m not commenting on the fair or unfairness of this
Ok then if that’s the case, Whats the relevance of it being the secretary? Manny was being a straight up brat where Chacon was provoked by Wade.
i don’t know the details. what happened?
Manny wanted 16 tickets at the last minute for a game v. TB
The traveling secretary *according to Jamal* belittled him in front of the clubhouse, and couldn’t get the tickets, so Manny pushed him to the floor.
Think what you will
it was @ TB I think actually
I thought it was at Houston
It was Houston =]
Nice, thanks
All-Star Catcher, Jason Varitek:
http://www.boston.com/sports/c.....ollow.html
Oh, you mean like posting a .183/.286/.300 vital line in September, douchebag?
Damn, forgot to click “Cancel”.
Personally I call him an All-Star Douchebag
Hamels is good.
And he has a pretty nice swing
Hamels is a better hitter than Melky.
That’s not saying much.
Is A-Rod still a Boras client?
I thought he (rather publicly) dumped him during the last contract deal at some point.
Not from my understanding. He signed with this group. He did however praise Boras I think last week.
Someone needs to tell MLBTR. They have him listed as a Boras guy.
J-Roll = teh clutch.
Heh, Derek Lowe did not say one single word, outside of “Yeah!”, that was not a curse.
you think lowe’s this pumped because it’s the playoffs or because he knows he’s upping his FA value?
I really don’t think that he’s thinking about his FA status while pitching in the Championship Series, I’d go with the former
i’m just worried that somewhere cashman is watching and warming up to lowe…
Well then he just saw Utley crushed one
Lowe’s another example of why you shouldn’t give up and trade a young guy just because he struggles in his first go around in the bigs, like the Mariners’ did.
You were saying?
seriously, if the M’s didn’t fucking pull that shit trade Boston would be going nowhere.
those frutista ads are humiliating to bob melvin
Brad Lidge’s season has gone totally under the radar. He was spectacular this year. Some saves weren’t always easy but that’s expected. The guy, not for nothing was a real bargain who turned into a great comeback story.
Oh great, here comes the Victorino lovefest.
Aaaaaaaaand now the Utley love fest.
tie game
Utley earn that money baby !!!
Hey! Someone told Philadelphia (finally) that they had a game!
Chase Utley!
Cano will do that next year
my wife says utley has a “date-rape face”
I bet those “Vaseline for Men” commercials dont make her feel any better, now do they?
Lowe love fest can now simmer down
He was clearly winded from the previously inning. I don’t think he ever recovered.
Previous*
Damn D-Lowe. It all comes crashing down.
Man. The Spanish announcers are so monotone you’d never know it was a home run if not for occasionally glancing up at the screen.
D Lowe wont be a yankee now………..
I don’t want Lowe, but I would hope the Yankees aren’t going to make personnel decisions based on one inning of work.
Of course not. But I see a guy throwing 90 MPH 2-seamers and 83 MPH sliders, and if I want that I’ll just bring back Sir Sidney Ponson.
90 mph 2 seamers sounds ML average. Isn’t it the 4 seamer that you want in 92-93 range? After all, lets not forget Hughes throws a 88 (yes)-90 mph 2 seamer.
Hughes’ out pitch is the curve and he has impeccable control.
Hughes is a very different pitcher. One guy pitches to contact and the other gets swings and misses. Apples and Oranges.
I’m saying that 2 seamers are meant to have motion to them, so velocity isn’t a big issue unless we’re talking about someone who’s in that sub-88 mph territory. That’s why bringing up Lowe’s velocity doesn’t matter.
Lowe gets a lot of ground ball outs and that’s his game plan. It worked out for 5 innings.
5 innings of impressive work. That’s what i’ll take from it. You’re not going to win every battle against Utley. The homer to Burrell is more of a negative in my book.
Lowe shouldn’t be too down on himself. Dodgers can tie it up quick.
“Other than that, Mrs Lincoln, how was the Play?”
Awesome, Im going to take that for sure.
What a gritty play by Blake. No talent, all scrap right there.
He musta talked to pedroia be4 the game
That was Brosius-esque, gritty Blake
Thats why the Phillies are so dangerous
is dewitt for real?
Yes, but he’s no superstar. Solid regular.
I love that Maddux is pitching out the pen. This is so cool.
Word.
You think he finds it degrading to some respect or you think hes a guy who knows what is best for the team..I think hes prob cool with it
At his age, I’d think he’s cool with it.
In his prime he was an all time great, but that was a long time ago.
Yeah, agreed. He’s probably cool with it.
The rocket wouldnt have it.. He’d say hey I’m juicing up for a reason and that reason is to be a starter
How many guys are the Yanks going to poach from the Dodgers? Manny, Casey, Ethier, Loney, and Kemp’s respective names have all been mentioned at some point.
Dodgers got some core unit …
Loney Kemp Ethier Broxton Billingsley and Kershaw..Its a beautiful thing
anyone have a vote for best and worst national anthem/god bless america?
best: smokey robinson in boston
worst: liz phair in chicago
So, should the score hold till the ninth, what’s the over/under on Lidge going back into Pujols-mode?
Wasn’t Park an almost Met? What happened with that?
is the maddux the last player left to show the stirrups?
good question.
i’m old enough to remember when george hendricks was the only player NOT showing them
i think moyer does
A Giambi-esque stretch by Loney.
Is it me or every ball that goes to Furcal does Joe say “..and Furcal, With the great arm”?
Manuel fucked up there taking out Hamels in my opinion
wowsers nice play 2b
Ooof. Looked like Jimmy was safe.
Note the excellent job by FOX, showing us the replay so that we can see exactly what happened.
Ugh.
easily safe, even to the naked eye
Ryan Madson vs. Manny, coming up. I have a bad feeling about this.
0.98 ERA & 0.93 WHIP since August 31st.
Yeah, but it’s Manny.
Well, he got him out on one pitch, so I guess it’s OK…this time, at least.
So what do we know about the Phillies bullpen?
And why is this commercial for the NYSE filling me with a sense of dread?
It’s very strong.
Joe Torre, I might miss him a lil itty bit
Madison has a better change than Hamels ?
No. McCarver’s an idiot.
Figures.
Is Kuo meant to be a starter or reliever?
Not sure why this comment ended up here, I positively didn’t have the above comment clicked to reply….odd
he was a starter most of the time in the minors. and a few times in the majors, the problem is that his elbow is simply glass, he’s Kazmir like awsome when he’s right. a abosalute strike out machine with blazing heat and filthy curve + slider, it’s ashame he’s blown out his elbow so many times that no one dares to keep him as a starter anymore
Manson has the best change up on the Phillies?
Spanish Announcers:
We love American football, but we have no football in Spanish for you.
Oops.
Well that was anti-climatic.
Anyone think Lidge is gonna blow up here in the 9th ?
See my comment from earlier.
Ya noone responded to it so i figured id give it a shot
was madson a starter earlier in his career?
As recently as 2006.
no joba-esque “start or relieve” controversy?
Nope. But Madson sucked as a starter.
Phillies going to the W.S.
Are they serious? The groundball by Victorino that led to him being on second because of a throwing error is the game changing play? Not the homer but Utley? Or the one by Burrell? Oof.
Thats FOX
Thats Grit
well, if he doesn’t get on base, it’s only a one run home run!
Well, if Utley or Burrell doesn’t homer, the game would be tied, or worse.
This is true, but there home run only make the game 2-2 if they don’t have that runner on base!
Mike, Tim McCarver said that he was “shocked, absolutely shocked” when he found out that more runs are scored in an inning led off by a Home Run rather than led off with a walk.
This is the man you are listening to. A man who is “shocked, absolutely shocked” when a play that leads to guaranteed runs results in more runs scored in an inning than a play that results in a base-runner on first base.
That still isn’t as bad as the time Michael Kay was dumbfounded that CMW would have a higher ERA with no one on bases than with runners on.
Am I reading that wrong? Isn’t it shocking that he has a higher ERA with nobody on-base than with runners on-base?
No, I’m an idiot, I have to backwards. He was shocked that it was so much higher with runner on.
Jeez, don’t scare me like that. I was thinking my brain was turned to mush in the 2+ hours I’ve been listening to dumb and dumber.
I think Mike meant the other way around: Kay was shocked CMW had a higher ERA with people on base.
Wait a minute, now I’m dumbfounded as well. Please explain that one to me.
Ohhh never mind.
new fangled stats from truck, damn them
I guess there’s no Baseball axiom about HR’s “always coming around to score”
So many axioms make no sense.
“A walk is as good as a hit”-Really? I’ve never seen a guy go from 1st to 3rd on a walk.
remember in little league when they told the first baseman to play the ball, not the bag? james loney doesn’t
Yeah, I thought he should have caught that.
No reason to pinch hit for pure grit
Could DeWitt end up being the next casey blake?
Im really glad that Lidge is at the level he’s at now. Always been a big fan of his.
Man Phils were lucky Manny wasnt up the way they been crushing these Lidge pitches
Lidge used a fair amount of the park on those first 2 outs
Brad Lidge sez to haters: Bite me.
Hey! Phillies win! This makes me happy.
this is gonna be a fun series
Chase really looks like he is a good guy
Despite the “date-rape face”.
This is definitely our new nickname for Utley. DateRapeFace™.
LMAO IS BURRELL STANDING ON A LADDER!?
Pat Burrell makes Ken Rosenthal look like Vern Troyer.
^^
Pat the bat rakes
Pat Burrell for CF ‘09?
Let’s not go overboard, here…