Nov
29

Saturday morning musings: Important Yankees

By

In a moment of Frigid Stove downtime over Thanksgiving, Peter Abraham offered up his thought-provoking list of the top 20 most important Yankees. He starts with Joba, ends with Dave Eiland and touches everyone in between. In a few days, we’re going to have a RAB round table about these picks and offer up our own. In the meantime, what’s your take? Is PeteAbe’s list accurate? Do you disagree? I do, but I’ll save that for another day.

Categories : Asides, Front Office
  • Adrian-Retire21

    How Derek is more important then MO in this orginization when MO was more better and important then Derek back in the 90’s dynasty and last year.CC is gONna be more important then JOba seeing JOba is gonna be on a innings limit.

  • Matt M

    i loved the concept but didnt like the execution. i want to see most important yankees MOVING FORWARD. (and by yankees i mean players; do we really need to waste a spot on randy levine? i’m fine with a separate list of 10 for FO/management guys, but for this list i strictly wanted to see the relative importance to the franchise)

    by my standards i more or less agree with Pete, however:

    11. Nady is far too high.

    14. Levine is irrevelant — id rather hear about Angelini + how we need to replace jeter at SS in a few years and that unless Angelini puts it together…we might have to trade some of our catching/pitching prospects for a SS. — THAT impacts our organization

    16. i’m all for the critical marginalization of Hank, but then if you do that…you cant put him ahead of hughes, jackson or oppenheimer.

    on the nitpicky side. id rate montero and brackman higher as per the parameters of my list. and id slot montero slightly ahead of brackman, both of their ceilings are endless, however, montero id argue is higher because his bat can carry him to 1B if he flops at C while brackman will be more high risk high reward

    • Matt M

      the other issue is Cano. given his horrific season this year, urges by fans to trade him, and the importance of yankees ranked ahead of him…its hard to argue for him to move up.

      on the other hand. he is 25 and the only young positional player of merit on the roster. along with arod at 32, they SHOULD be the fixtures of the lineup (scary somewhat given robbies 2008). but watch, now that PED’s are gone and greenies are gone…mlb teams dont thrive with rosters loaded with players all scratching late 30s and early 40s.

      Cano and arod. love them or not…they’re your crucial yankee everyday players. if not cano…you’d be putting an awful lot of eggs in that Austin Jackson basket or the baskets of XYandZ players from the low-A charleston riverdogs.

  • Baseballnation

    Bracman in front of Montero?? Uh oh. Nady is way to high…

    • Baseballnation

      Brackman*

    • Steve

      Yeah, personally I think Betances is more likely to make it than Brackman. He’s already pitched more at a younger age and shown the ability to make adjustments. All the reports on Dellin are that he’s a hard worker, which makes him more likely to reach his ceiling. I’ve read that Brackman is a hard worker as well, but I just don’t know what to make of him at this point.

      • christopher

        i agree betances has a better chance of making it, but brackman has the better stuff – great stuff in fact a lot like a young randy johnson, if he can learn to repeat his delivery better and comand his pitches he has the potential to be a dominant starter. I like betances, but i dont see dominance in him – I see a guy who will probably make it to the bigs and have avery good career as a number 2 starter at best

        • Steve

          I think you sell Dellin short. Baseball America has said Dellin’s ceiling is as high as anyone in Baseball. If he can control his walks, he will be a tremendous pitcher.

          • Old Ranger

            I agree with both of you to some extent, but not all. Dellin; I think you guys are right, he will be as good as he wants to be, if he can get his Command/Control right. Now Brackman is different; I remember a guy named Sandy Kofax(a lot like Randy) that could throw the ball through a brick wall but (you guessed it) didn’t have any idea where it was going…took him a while but he got it together (HOF). I look at Brackman in the same light, he will light it up someday and then you have three/four star pitchers. Just think of a 2011 or 2012 rotation like this; Joba, CC, CMW, Backman, Dellin, Phil, Aceves just to name a few…killer rotation, if all stay healthy and play up to their expectations.
            I know everyone is weary of me saying this but here goes; I honestly believe #18 should be Brett Gardner…now hold on here! Thinking (as stated above by Matt M) that we should look to the future; IF (big if) Brett could take over in CF and improve his hitting well enough to be league avg. this guy could be an intricate part of this team for the next ten years. Now some may think it is because I like Bretts’ style of play and have backed him from the beginning, NO…I never let anything stand in the way of my assessment of a situation (I’d already be dead), many things I like about him but, number one is Home Grown, number #2 is his ability to play winning baseball and has baseball instincts…there are other things but, I thing you get the idea, let’s judge him after 500 ABs or more. 27/09.

            • Jay CT

              I love how you make your analysis and usually agree with it (I am high on Gardner too- I would love to see him get a real shot. He seems to be similar to Jacoby Ellsbury.) However, I think the whole killer rotation that you posted is a dream rotation. It is hard to count on that many young pitchers turning into star pitchers. I think the Yankees would be lucky to have 1 or 2 turn into aces, and I think 1 is more likely. I can’t say anything factual about Sandy Kofax because I am way too young, but to even mention Brackman and Kofax in the same breath to me is scary. There is a reason no one (outside of maybe Pedro Martinez) has had the same type career as Sandy, and that reason is because they come around once in a lifetime.

              That being said, outside of the 27/09 thing, I look forward to reading your opinion!

              • Old Ranger

                Can’t argue with you on the dream team, because that is exactly what it is. To many thing can (and do) go wrong…2009 is a reminder. 27/09.

                • Jay CT

                  Well like I said, I really enjoy reading your views because I hate the whole “lets trade Matsui for Jay Bruce and Volquez” attitude that some have. Sometimes people forget OTHER teams want to win also. You always have a realistic approach to things though Mr. Ranger.

  • parms

    this is honestly the most pathetic excuse for press i might have ever seen

    p.s. even if this was legit, nobody in their right mind would agree with the list

  • BigBlueAL

    As much as alot of people here hate him, I think by far Arod is the most important Yankee, even moreso now that the offense around him is looking shaky at best. he is getting paid what he is to be the player he was in 2007. It might not be fair, but its the truth and he has to be held to a higher standard than anybody on the team.

    Wang, Joba and Mo are probably next on the list. Last year proved Wang’s importance to the team. Granted if they sign CC, they drop down the list….

    • Steve

      I disagree. After watching this guy for 4 years I’ve come to the conclusion that the rest of the team will carry HIM to his first championship, not the other way around. The monster year he had in 2007 should show us all that he can’t do it himself. Even if he has another big year in him (I think he has a few more) you still need the pitching to make those runs stick.

      • Reggie C.

        A-rod will contribute to a Yankee championship. Bottom line remains that the Yankees will need a terrific 1-2-3 punch in the playoffs. Getting by the Angels, RS, Rays can’t be done without a top-notch rotation.

        I think Nady is over-ranked, but i can see Abe’s emphasis on Nady’s 2009 season b/c its his shot to make a case for himself as a longterm corner OF in the new YS.

      • CLT_JR

        This is baseball, not basketball! 1 player can not carry a team to the playoffs and a championship, no matter how good he is. Their are too many other aspects to the team. Arod can hit 600 with 10 HRs in a series, but it will not matter if their pitching gives up 100 runs. Baseball is a team game.

        • Old Ranger

          True, Yes and No!
          You are right baseball is a team game but, you build a team around a player or two and A-Rod and CMW, Mo and now Joba are those guys.
          The trouble with the Yankees over the last few years is, they had all these stars (Stats are king) an no one would give themselves up for the good of the team. They all wanted to be the hero, that is not a team, that is nine guys playing baseball. 27/09.

          • Mike Pop

            Don’t forget CC.. He should be a Yankee by 3 o clock tomorrow

            • Old Ranger

              We can only hope! 27/09.

  • kenthadley

    the list is nothing but filler for a slow November….something to chat about…..hey Ben (or anyone else)….has anyone considered Felipe Lopez as a possible CF? I keep hearing Hudson, which makes no sense to me….I think Lopez has better tools for the move, and a better offensive ceiling…..just throwing it out there….

  • christopher

    how is dave eiland even on the list?

    on another note, our old friends the pirates are looking to deal some of their veterans and one of the names was quite intriuging – Adam Laroche who put up pretty impressive numbers and could be a guy that the yankees stick at 1st for a few years.

    Obvously we learned from the swisher deal that we can value players much better than we can contracts and Laroche is on his way to making pretty good money especially for the pirates – he made 5 million last seaon and is going to be due for a raise and the pirates may feel he will be tooo expensive to have around once the team, or mor aptly, if the team ever ets better.

    His career totals are pretty impressive and on a better team would surely drive in 100 runs. Career averages of .273/.340/.492/.832 with homerun totals of 20, 32, 21, and 25 (in a season he played in only 136 games).

    He would basically replace Gardner in the line-up and we would have to live with Damon in center for another year, but this is a deal that would both improve the offense and get us younger. He is no Texiera, but for the difference in price of at least 15 million I would say he is a perfect fit.

    What will it cost? As I said we have no idea how GMs value salaries, but i have to believe that if the pirates are williing to shop around a quality firstbaseman in his prime than it must have something to do with what his salary will be next season. Perhaps Ian Kennedy and Melky. I know the offer is low, but Kennedy still has the potentialto be a very good MLB pitcher and you never know how much getting rid of that salary might mean to them. After this season’s arbitration he may be their highest paid player. We could maybe sweeten the deal for them by taking back jack wilson to serve as a utility infielder who has for his production and that team a very bad contract,

    • Chris

      He certainly wouldn’t be a bad pick up, but is he really any better than Nick Swisher?

      • Mike Pop

        Say no to LaRoche after the Swish edition

        • http://www.ilikemygirls.com Billy Beane

          addition

          • Mike Pop

            Lol wow I was not thinking

    • Jake H

      Eiland is on the list because he probably is going to be the pitching coach for some time. Before Guidry we had Mel as the pitching coach for years. Eiland has worked his way up the organization and the Yanks brass seems to love him.

  • christopher

    its good to see so many young guys on the list, but how is the guy who may turn out to be one of the top 2 or 3 guys to ever pplay the game ranked 3rd. he has already won 2 mvps for this team. granted he hasnt performed in the postseason, but a lot of those numbers came in short series so I take little stock in them and fully expect that he is due for an unbelievable post-season and is their best chance at winning a WS.

    I know yankee fans dont like this guy too much, but they sometimes forget just how talented he is. He is absolutly a player that once he is gone, people will truly miss him and realize just what he did for this team

  • Mark B

    After reading the list, you sure get the feeling Pete doesn’t think Joe Girardi will have a long tenure as skipper…..

    • Steve

      . . . or that he doesn’t like him personally, which was fairly evident from his reporting this season.

  • Steve

    Here’s Pete’s list, with my comments

    1. Joba Chamberlain-Agree. The Yanks need him to be their Josh Beckett if they are to make another championship run.
    2. Hal Steinbrenner-Agree. He’s on board with the two pronged strategy of FAs AND farm system. As long as that is the case, we’ll be an elite team.
    3. Alex Rodriguez-Too high. Proved in 2007 that no matter what he does, its not enough if they don’t have the pitching to make those runs stick.
    4. Derek Jeter-A bit high. Aging, declining with the bat and glove. But his clubhouse leadership is essential to the Yankee mix.
    5. Mariano Rivera-I don’t believe closers are as big a deal as other do, but he’s still the best who ever lived.
    6. Brian Cashman-Belongs higher. He’s the ultimate decision maker on all player moves. Belongs after Hal.
    7. Chien-Ming Wang
    8. Joe Girardi-Should be right behind Cashman. His vision and style of baseball is what this team will ulitmately reflect over the next few years, and he’s more Mike Scioscia than he is Joe Torre. Pitching trumps hitting first, last and always. He values fielding more than Torre did. Gardner and Swisher are the first moves in that direction. Torre was a laid back father figure in a room full of big stars with their own agendas, Girardi wants a clubhouse of solid guys who care about winning and will defend each other.
    9. Robinson Cano-Meh, whatever.
    10. Jorge Posada-Should be right behind Jeter. He’s Derek’s hatchet man and we saw last year how sorely he can be missed both on the field and in the clubhouse.
    11. Xavier Nady-Meh, whatever
    12. Andrew Brackman-Sorry, hasn’t pitched enough
    13. Jesus Montero-I can’t count guys in A-Ball. Call me in two years.
    14. Randy Levine-After the stadium is built, I have no idea why he’s on any list. Replace him with Stick Michael.
    15. Hank Steinbrenner-Who?
    16. Phil Hughes-Should be higher. Still think he will be the anchor of our rotation for the next 10 years.
    17. Austin Jackson-Never was a big A-Jax fan. Let him strike out 130x a season for San Diego.
    18. Johnny Damon-Damon? Really? If we have trouble scoring runs again, one of the reason will be our 2 corner outfielders don’t have enough pop, and he’s one of them.
    19. Damon Oppenheimer/Mark Newman-Should be higher. The farm will supply us with bullpen arms, starters, our next catcher and hopefully a replacement for Jeter. Plus fodder for trades. I’d say that’s pretty important.
    20. Dave Eiland-Should be higher. Given the young elements of our pitching staff, he’s going to be very important going forward.

    • Baseballnation

      “Austin Jackson-Never was a big A-Jax fan. Let him strike out 130x a season for San Diego.”

      I assume your hinting to trade him for Peavy…If Yes then yes…Let’s get that deal done….But

      If you think Jackson should be dealt for the sole purpose of 130 k annually then i say nay sir. K’s are overvalued. Ask Adam Dunn. If Jackson can continue to improve his K/BB ratio and continue to progress, swipe some bags here and there, then he has extremely high value in the org as a prime talent at a optimum position of need.

      • Steve

        Yes, that’s what I’m referring to.

        And as far as Dunn goes, I think the lack of interest in him shows that people in the business don’t agree with the bloggers on this one. You can keep the Dunn’s and Jack Cust’s of the world. They always look good when they’re on somebody elses’s team, when they’re on yours you can’t wait to replace them with somebody more consistent. I don’t think he’s a winning player, especially when you factor in his horrendous glove.

        BTW-A-Jax has NEVER shown the type of power that would make those strikeouts somewhat tolerable.

        • Reggie C.

          C’mon Steve.

          Let Jackson show continual improvement in his game in ’09. He’s not being penciled in as a regular just yet. The exciting part, as you know, is Jackson has shown the ability to get better. He held his own in AA, and now he’s ready to take on that last rung in the minors.

          Pete Abe had to place a couple prospects on the list. The future is bleak if Jackson, Montero, and Brackman don’t turn out well. Look how fast the RS have sucessfully integrated their prospects into the bigs giving them a balanced squad to envy.

          • http://www.riveraveblues.com Mike A.

            The Sox starting emphasizing the draft when Epstein showed up in 2002, and they didn’t start seeing significant returns until the second half of 2005.

            • Reggie C.

              So you’d agree that Epstein has walloped Cashman in player development?

              • Steve

                Cashman took over full control of Baseball operations in 05, when he signed his last 3 year deal.

              • http://www.riveraveblues.com Mike A.

                As of right now, yes, but they’ve had a 3 yr head start. Lester didn’t figure it out until this year, his third in the majors. Ellsbury’s done nothing except having one hot month in ’07, and the jury is still out on Lowrie. Papelbon is obviously excellent, as in Pedroia.

          • Steve

            “The exciting part, as you know, is Jackson has shown the ability to get better”

            Not that I’ve seen. His strikeouts have leveled off at 100+/500 ABs for the past 2 seasons. His power is too marginal (13 HRs/07 and 9 HRs 08) to be considered a slugger and his power declined last season. His .354 OBP from last season mirrors his .355 career OBP. The facts just don’t support your assertion that he’s improving.

            He looks like a nice, MLB regular for a small market team, but not the type of player you expect to see starting for the Yankees. Everybody got excited about him after his big showing in Tampa, but he regressed to his career avg’s last year.

            • http://www.riveraveblues.com Mike A.

              Jackson’s K/BB rate has gotten better in each of his three full seasons (2.48-2.25-2.02) as has his AB/K (3.54-4.55-4.60). He’s not a slugger, so don’t get caught up looking at his HR totals.

              He’s a .280 BA, .350 OBP, 20-25 HR centerfielder with very good defense in his prime. What’s wrong with that?

              • Steve

                Sorry, but his AB/K rate improvement for the past 2 seasons is too marginal to draw any conclusions from, and his K/BB rate improvement is largely due to the fact that he SO 150+ times in 06. He did walk a bit more last year, but again, not enough to get his OBP to a level to get excited about.

                Again, the past TWO season are what bug me about A-Jax. I didn’t see him build on his impressive 07 Tampa half season, he took a step back in AA.

                • http://www.riveraveblues.com Mike A.

                  He chopped a full at-bat off his AB/K rate in his career, that’s called progress.

                  He had an absurd half-season in High-A, then a solid but not outstanding year in Double-A. It’s tough to improve upon the kind of numbers he put up at Tampa.

                • http://www.new.facebook.com/home.php?ref=home#/profile.php?id=594331910&ref=name Jamal G.

                  …he took a step back in AA.

                  He did take “a step back”, but what you are failing to realize is that he took this step as one of the youngest players at the Double-A level who was also making the consensus ‘toughest jump at the Minor League level’ (from A-ball to AA-ball). Also, not only is he still just 21-years-old, but he’s only been playing baseball full-time for what, three-and-a-half years?

                • Andy In Sunny Daytona

                  Jamal, no offense, but can we stop saying that Austin Jackson has only been playing ball full-time for however short of a period.
                  He has been playing playing baseball his entire life, just like basketball. Just about every single player coming out of high school played another sport besides baseball.
                  I agree that he is developing as a baseball player, and I believe that he will ultimately become a fine major leaguer, but to use the full-time excuse is weak.

                • http://www.new.facebook.com/home.php?ref=home#/profile.php?id=594331910&ref=name Jamal G.

                  True that, but my overall point still stands: he was a young player for the Double-A level making, arguably, the biggest jump in the Minor League system.

                • Andy In Sunny Daytona

                  No doubt.

            • CLT_JR

              How about the fact that he made the jump from A ball to AA ball?? Those numbers at the same level wpuld not be good, but he moved up to much harder levl!

        • http://www.riveraveblues.com Mike A.

          BTW-A-Jax has NEVER shown the type of power that would make those strikeouts somewhat tolerable.

          Yeah, because he’s 21. Carlos Beltran hit 42 homers total in 5+ years in the minors. Power is the last tool to come, chill out.

          • Steve

            So you’ve given up on him cutting down on his strikeouts? Or you don’t think they matter? He’s whiffing against pitchers who can’t play in the big leagues on a daily basis. What do you think he will do when he gets to the BX?

            Let me be clear, his HR’s don’t bother me all that much if he shows the ability to be a good contact hitter, but his strikeouts argue against that. His OBP is OK, but nothing to get excited about. He needs to excel in SOMETHING as a hitter at the minor league level before I believe in him. I don’t think he adds up to a player good enough to be on the Yanks at this point.

            • http://www.riveraveblues.com Mike A.

              Look at my above post, he has cut down on his strikeouts in each of his three fulls seasons:

              Jackson’s K/BB rate has gotten better in each of his three full seasons (2.48-2.25-2.02) as has his AB/K (3.54-4.55-4.60).

              He’s always going to strikeout, that’s just the kind of player he is. That doesn’t mean he can’t still be a valuable player. They’re just strikeouts, only marginally worse than outs made on balls in play because of the potential to advance baserunners, which is somewhat counteracted by increased double play potential.

        • http://www.new.facebook.com/home.php?ref=home#/profile.php?id=594331910&ref=name Jamal G.

          They always look good when they’re on somebody elses’s team, when they’re on yours you can’t wait to replace them with somebody more consistent. I don’t think he’s a winning player…

          I’m sorry, but the .400 OBP Dunn put up in his first, full Major League season would have looked good on all the other 29 teams in MLB. Oh, and that year (2002) he struck-out 170 times, the third most in his career; do you still think strikeouts matter that much? Strikeouts just look ugly, they are no different from a hard-liner right at the Third Basemen.

          My friend, consistency is the absolute wrong term to use to criticize Adam Dunn. For the last five seasons, Dunn has amassed 40 or more HRs and 100 or more BBs. Also, in that five-year stretch, he has had only one season (2006) where he did not post an OBP of .380 or higher and a SLG% of .510 or higher.

          Lastly, how can you criticize Dunn by saying he’s “not a winning player” when you just said that you can not label Alex Rodriguez as such because of the other twenty-four guys on his team? Luckily, Fire Joe Morgan is not around, therefore I can say this all day long: consistency, my friend, consistency.

          • Steve

            “I don’t think he’s a winning player…”

            and the rest of what I said was

            “especially when you factor in his horrendous glove. ”

            Which is among the worst in baseball at his position. Don’t cherry pick with me buddy, I’ve been doing this too long. I don’t fit in the box you’re trying to cram me into, although I was never much of a fan of FJM. There is such a thing as a productive out, and a walk isn’t as good as a hit. These things add do up over the course of a season, but you’re right in that they don’t trump his other production. But as far as the overall package, I’ll pass. I can do better than 1-dimensional ballplayers.

            • http://www.new.facebook.com/home.php?ref=home#/profile.php?id=594331910&ref=name Jamal G.

              Don’t cherry pick with me buddy, I’ve been doing this too long.

              What box is that, someone who comprehends the definition of “especially”? You said especially, meaning you don’t think he’s a winning player at all, but even less so when you factor in his defense.

              • Steve

                I didn’t mean that in a nasty way. The “Box” is the types that FJM used to sit around shooting darts at.

                I was never a big fan of FJM. First, there are things you need to see with your own eyes that stats can miss. Or maybe someone is looking at or emphasizing the wrong ones. But generally stats will confirm what your eyes are telling you. Its not an either/or between stats and a trained eye, its both. Last time I checked, teams still employ scouts, and do it for a reason.

                Second, you persuade no one on the other side when you sit around deriding people who you disagree with. Its childish, and ultimately gets everybody nowhere.

            • Eric

              Be careful with the “Dunn as horrendous fielder” motif because according to PMR, he was actually 0.68 Runs Above Average this season, so, he was basically average in LF.

              And if the Yankees signed him, I think he’d probably just DH.

              Sure a walk may not always be as valuable as a hit, but the important thing is to just get guys on base. Adam Dunn is one of the best players in baseball in getting on base and hitting for power.

          • Mike Pop

            I would take Adam Dunn’s numbers on the Yankees any year… Id love him on a 3 or 4 year deal

            • Eric

              I’d say three years, option for a fourth, 13-15 per.

  • Steve S

    Couple of issues with this list:

    1) His point about Alex Rodriguez is so passive aggressive. The last sentence of whether the next nine years will be about the homerun record or winning championships, as if that is mutually exclusive. That is the story line distinction but guess what the Yankees need Alex to hit homeruns in order to win. And someone who claims to have baseball sohpistication should understand that Arod’s performance has not been an issue, especially following a year where the team failed to make the playoffs.

    2) Pitching coaches should not show up on this list. They can help but there is no way that he is that important. Especially one that has that small of a track record. There are dozens of guys out there who are probably as qualified who could step in.

    3) Joe Girardi- Old Pete has an agenda with this guy. The premise that he somehow offended people in that clubhouse is rodiculous. Guess what, they were a frustrating team this year and some of those veterans needed a kick in the pants. But all of that is speculation and rumor mongering. Im not a Girardi apologist but he got 89 wins out of a team that had Mike Mussina as its best pitcher this year and lost chunks of his lineup at different stages this year.

    • Steve

      “And someone who claims to have baseball sohpistication should understand that Arod’s performance has not been an issue, especially following a year where the team failed to make the playoffs.”

      Someone who wants to knock others for their level of sophistication should look at Alex’s leverage stats from last year, particularly his OPS. He was an average MLB player (.813) when it mattered most, and Superman (1.112) when it was meaningless. It’s been an issue, especially since he’s your cleanup hitter.

      BTW-Those numbers were worse up to September, as were his RISP numbers. He was below .240 with RISP for most of the season and then ended up at .271. He made them more respectable when the team fell out of it, furthering the case against him for last season.

      To be fair to Alex, he was mostly good in his prior seasons, and great in 07.

      • http://www.riveraveblues.com Mike A.

        Homeruns and RBI doubles count just the same no matter the inning. People focus more on what A-Rod doesn’t do well rather than appreciate everything else he does at an All-World level.

        If anything you have to accuse Alex of trying too hard, it’s not like he dogs it. The guy led the league in VORP and was second in OPS. What do you want, a mediocre player who ramps it up in “clutch” situations? I’d want to know why that player can’t show that effort in every at-bat, rather than just in big spots.

        • Eric

          While I think the A-Rod as un-clutch thing is overrated, he was 88th in the Majors in WPA this year.

          Just sayin…

          • http://www.riveraveblues.com Mike A.

            This is true, but his WPA was better than Mr. Clutch Derek Jeter’s.

            • http://www.new.facebook.com/home.php?ref=home#/profile.php?id=594331910&ref=name Jamal G.

              Mike, be careful, Joey “Four Rings” and his goons might get you!

            • Eric

              Word. Jeter as clutch is overrated as well.

          • Steve H

            Prof. Albert was apologetic about his findings: “Sorry for not giving you better news — no significance is generally not front-page stuff — but this illustrates the dangers of trying to make too much from this type of situational data.” But I wasn’t surprised, because throughout baseball history, clutch hitting, as a measurable ability consistent from year to year, has been near-impossible to detect. In other words, if a player hits lots of home runs one year, he’s likely to do the same the next year (insert obligatory steroids disclaimer here). But if a player does well in the clutch one year, it’s generally a toss-up whether he’ll do better or worse than average the next year.

            http://blogs.wsj.com/numbersgu.....itter-411/

      • Steve S

        Yes because looking at batting average really accounts for everything. Perhaps the fact that he was getting on base 40% of the time in those situations would demonstrate that the perhaps pitchers were pitching around him. Especially when the guy hitting behind wasnt hitting or walking in those sitautions. Look at Jason Giambi’s stats in those same situations, thats awful. And Alex’s mistake was not taking as manay pitches but of course you would never acknowledge him if all he did was walk and pass the baton to guys like Giambi. And by the way an 813 OPS is by no means an average major leaguer. Not to mention the fact your argument is even worse because by the end of the first week of September the Yankees were completely out if it. He wasnt as good as he was in 2007, thats a given and he probably will never be as good as 2007. BUT give me any guy who manages a 1.112 OPS and an .813 OPS in “leverage” situations, and Im hardly going to point th finger at him. Its a ridiculous argument. And by the way Jorge Posada who had a career year in 2007 and protected Alex in the lineup managed that Pedestrian 816 OPS in those late and close situations.

        • Steve

          You apparently have no idea what “leverage” is as a baseball stat and otherwise completely missed just about every other point I made. Oh well.

      • Old Ranger

        Think of who A-Rod had hitting behind him all year. Pitchers knew that A-Rod was trying hard to hit the HR (because that’s his job) or hit it hard somewhere. So, they pitched him hard, knowing he was going to expand the zone…when no one has your back, one presses to much.
        Now, this coming year he will have one of three guys; Matsui, Posada, or maybe Tex…I’m looking for a big year for A-Rod in 2009. 27/09.

        • Mike Pop

          320/45/130 rbis—–MVP

          • Old Ranger

            I’d take that any day. Let’s face it, who one has batting in front and behind one makes a big difference. Tex, A-Rod, Matsui/Posada…no room for error, big year for all of them (barring injuries). 27/09.

  • Austrian Gay TV

    You guys are taking this Pete Abraham list so seriously. He is an admitted red sox fan, who happens to have good info… His info. about the Yanks is top notch… his opinions are shit, because he is biased, and because he holds grudges. (Girardi- for not giving him the first scoop, like Torre did)

    Just to note- Hal is the clear #1 on any list. He makes the decisions, is the chairman of Yankee Global Enterprises, has the final say on budgets and now is in charge of all things Yankee including baseball decisions.

    The rest of the list is who is most important to the Yankees right now, can be summarized easily. The entire farm system is #2, last year a lot of players took steps back and only McAllister and Ajax took giant leaps forward, we need the rest of our high upside guys to take steps forward. Without a rock solid farm in this new era of baseball, any team is doomed. Buying every free agent is proven to not work.

    #3 is Arod
    #4 Joba
    #5 Mo
    #6 Jeter
    #7 Posada (He is the clear players vocal leader and was sorely missed)

    And all you guys hating on Eiland… Did you see what he did with THAT staff last year. A revolving door of crap, and still put together a decent rotation. Imagine what he can do with real top caliber pitchers. As many of you said pitching is so important, then the guy coaching them would be just as important.

  • Tom

    I think the AL East should be split up because its too good and lots of crappy teams are making the playoffs when they don’t deserve it. Considering the Yankees and the White Sox both won 89 games last year. Stick the Yankees in the central and they probably win 93 games. Stick the sox or rays in the central and they probably win 100

    • Steve

      How about instead of punishing the AL East, we get the rest of baseball to raise their standards?

      • Mike Pop

        Or we could just punish everyone in the AL East except us

  • Jake H

    I think that Jeter is higher then Mo because Mo ha 2 years left them will be done. Jeter probably is going to be around longer then that. Also his current contract is going to come into play as everyone has talked about.

  • http://www.riveraveblues.com Mike A.

    Holy crap, Plaxico Burress got shot!

    • Steve

      What an idiot. Carrying a gun and accidentally shoots himself in the leg.

      If he broke any bones, he’s done for the year.

    • http://www.new.facebook.com/home.php?ref=home#/profile.php?id=594331910&ref=name Jamal G.

      Link?

      • http://img.dailymail.co.uk/i/pix/2008/02_01/burressDM0402_468x305.jpg Nady Nation
        • Reggie C.

          that dude is strange….

      • Mike Pop

        Time for the Cowboys to move right in on ya now

        • http://www.new.facebook.com/home.php?ref=home#/profile.php?id=594331910&ref=name Jamal G.

          He was out for this Sunday’s game anyway. Also, the biggest strength outside of their ground game is their depth, we can weather this storm with Domenik Hixon and Kevin Boss stepping their respective games up (which they have done when Plax has missed two games earlier this season).

          • Mike Pop

            Plax is pushing his limits with Coughlin though.. Another incident and he might be gone

        • Reggie C.

          cowboys must look really good by beating on the worst the punk NFC west has to offer.

          • Mike Pop

            The way they played on Thanksgiving, they would of beat alot of other teams do my friend.. Defense was great… They are back, you cannot argue with that

            • http://img.dailymail.co.uk/i/pix/2008/02_01/burressDM0402_468x305.jpg Nady Nation

              They’re back because they beat the Niners and the Seahawks? Whatever you say.

              • Mike Pop

                Did you watch the games ? They beat the Skins too if that counts.. I love how your trying to argue this point… We got Romo back, T-New back… T-New is doing great.. He locked down Santana Moss in that Skins game and Moss usually kills Big D.. Romo gets the ball downfield, something Brad Johnson or Brooks Bollinger does not..W,e dude, they probably still suck in your eyes cause you don’t watch all the games.. Lets see how Romo and the gang do against the Steelers next week

                • http://img.dailymail.co.uk/i/pix/2008/02_01/burressDM0402_468x305.jpg Nady Nation

                  Sorry if I’m not impressed by them beating a decent team and 2 of the worst teams in football. I watched the games. Beat a quality team before you pronounce them as being back.

                • Mike Pop

                  So you do not think they are any threat ?

                • Thomas

                  I think the Cowboys are a definite threat to the Giants (in the playoffs). However, I don’t see how Plaxico’s injury helps the Cowboys dramatically, since O-Line is the Cowboys big weakness and the reason they lost those 4 games (not Romo’s injury).

                • Mike Pop

                  Disagreeing with ya there man… Romo playd, we would of won more of those games.. We did not lose all 4 games while Romo was out.. Romo was in during the Arizona and 1st Skins game and we lost both… O-Line sucked, but we lost Kosier since the beginning and this guy Marcus Holland looked alot better than Proctor did in the other games

                • Mike Pop

                  And I am not saying that with Plax being out, the Cowboys will overtake the Giants for the NFC East.. I do not think that will ever happen.. But lets say Plax broke some bones or is out for the year.. That is a huge advantage for our secondary in a potential playoff game.. You put T-New on Amani or Steve Smith, he is going to lock either down

                • Thomas

                  My bad, I misunderstood you. It sounded like you were saying having Romo back fixes all the Cowboys problems. Obviously, he helps and having Plax hurt helps. But as you acknowledged they lost two games with him, the major reason being the O-Line (also a key reason in their losing of the other two games).

    • http://img.dailymail.co.uk/i/pix/2008/02_01/burressDM0402_468x305.jpg Nady Nation

      …by himself

    • Mike Pop

      Shot himself

  • Reggie C.

    ESPN says it was an accidental shooting but doesn’t say it was accidentally self-inflicted, nor does it say he was carrying it.

    • Reggie C.

      Now they’ve just updated their site to include the Foxsports details. I’ll wait for the official team press report. IF plax was carrying a loaded gun in public, he’s facing criminal charges , but we havent’ heard anything from any law enforcement , so the details aren’t known yet.

      • Mike Pop

        Does he have a gun license ?

        • Reggie C.

          No idea, but I was under the impression that NYS didn’t give out those kind of carry and conceal type licenses/permits. So a citizen can’t carry a gun outside his/her home legally.

          • Mike Pop

            Okay just wondering… He’s screwed with the team either way imo just by bringing that kind of news onto the organization

  • Lanny

    The Pete A list is hilarious. I know its a boring time of year but he could have put a little thought into it.

    It’s almost as bad as ESPN’s Whos Now.

    • http://www.riveraveblues.com Ben K.

      Care to give us yours or are you just going to insult someone else’s work for a change?

    • Old Ranger

      Actually, I thought it gave some of us something to think about and have a little fun with. At least, it was fun for me.
      Stop and think about it, we sometimes get caught up with the players themselves, we tend to forget the rest of the operation…that which keeps the team running. 27/09.

      • Steve

        I mean, seriously. What’s the alternative? Another year of “Does Joba belong in the bullpen” debates?

  • Baseballnation

    WTF PLAX!!! What the hell are you carrying for? The guy has some serious deep rooted behavioral issues that need dealing. Upo investigation, if the Giants find out he was holding just to hold a piece…without license, then I say they push to permanently suspend him for the rest of the season, no matter how fast he can get healthy. Coughlin has done well painting this notion of team over anything else, and the depth the team has is rarely matched by others. It would be a big loss or is a big loss to not have plax, but this team is built on the run game and on the defense.

    Most important people onthe team right now:
    1) Brandon Jacobs
    2) Steve Spagnuolo
    3) Justin Tuck
    4) Fred Robbins
    5) Tom Coughlin

    • http://www.riveraveblues.com Ben K.

      Eli would like to have a word with you.

      • Baseballnation

        No sir, I love Eli but he’s not Brees, he’s really good, efficient guy and more important he runs Coughling’s complex scheme very well…but I’d have to agree with the other guy and say the O-Line anchored by my boy Chris Snee is more deserving of that credit. Again I like Eli but in terms of personal performance I’d say he’es been slightly better than a middle of the pack QB

        • http://img.dailymail.co.uk/i/pix/2008/02_01/burressDM0402_468x305.jpg Nady Nation

          Eli and Tuck are clearly the MVPs on their respective sides of the ball, it’s not even close. If you think David Carr would be doing the same job that Eli is currently doing handling this team, you’re on crack.

          • Baseballnation

            Tuck’s freakishness is a clear to see as day, but don’t be so quick to assert that. Fred Robbins sack total isn’t on par with Tuck’s but if you have watched week in and week out, Fred Robbins is having an all pro year and it seems like anytime a Giant Jersey is around the opposing qb, Fred Robbins is one of those guys.

    • Matt M

      no no no, i have been the biggest brandon jacobs homer since day one when i was him bowl over a defensive back for the first time. with his size and speed he has the potential to be a beast

      but that said, if you’re talking about the giants you start and end with the lines.

      that offensive line opens up massive holes (especially since jacobs’ 6’4 265 frame needs to run through them). when tiki left jacobs filled in without a hitch. when jacobs went down, ward and bradshaw has similiar success.

      i’d go:
      1) Reese (and lets not forget Ernie’s hands in the current team that we have either)
      2) Spagnuolo (last year when the same personel went from tim lewis’ read ‘N react to spag’s defense…everything clicked)

      3) offensive line
      4) defensive line (these two are interchangable, the defensive line won us the superbowl last year, and the offensive line has that much potential this year)

      5) Manning (he is durable, his attitude has translated into being cool and collected, and he has broken his habit of overthrowing the target)

      this gives u an idea of how stacked this team is. i still havent covered earth wind and fire combo nor the receiving corps nor the improved play of Webster and Ross.

      looking forward, the real challenge is knowing what to keep and what let walk. we’ve done a good job with letting mitchell and gibril go for big paydays and shipping out shockey + plugging those through the draft. it will be interesting to see what you do with jacobs ward webster etc this offseason. with the cap, football involves much more ‘tough love’

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