Quick Hits: Teixeira, Nady, Mel Hall

Blaming the stadium for the pitching woes
Japanese clubs interested in Matsui

Updated 1:54 p.m. with Mel Hall news: We’ve got a few short items for a mid-morning wrap-up. Let’s jump in.

Youkilis jumps out to slim All Star Game lead over Teixeira
Starting with bad news, we find out that Kevin Youkilis holds a 1,314-vote lead over Mark Teixeira for the All Star Game. While Youkilis is definitely worthy of the start — perhaps more so than Teixeira by a slim margin — the Yankee fan in me doesn’t want to see some Red Sox player starting for the AL at first base. So Yankee fans, let’s get on that. Vote here for Teixeira. Vote early. Vote often. This injustice will not stand.

Nady making rehab progress
From exhibition games to injuries, we turn our attention to the rehabbing Yankee outfielder Xavier Nady. According to NJ.com’s Colin Stephenson, Nady has ramped up his throwing program. He threw from around 100 feet prior to last night’s game and will do so again today. After this afternoon’s session, the Yankees will determine whether Nady will stick with the team or return to Tampa to finish his rehab. There is still no timetable for his return.

In a way, Nady presents an interesting case for the Yankees. The team is committed to bringing him back only when he can be a viable on-field contributor. With Hideki Matsui limited to DH duties, the team doesn’t need another no-field player impacting their roster flexibility.

The only question about Nady’s return concerns the roster move. Who goes down when Nady comes up? Most likely, Angel Berroa will be the odd man out. He has amassed a whopping five plate appearances over the team’s last 31 games and doesn’t do much in the field. He’s pure dead weight and should have been jettisoned a while ago. That leaves the Yankees a little outfield-heavy on the bench, but I’m OK with that.

Mel Hall convicted on charges of sex abuse
In March 1989, Dave Winfield went down with a back injury, and the Yankees had an outfield void to fill. They attempted to do so by acquiring an overrated Mel Hall. While the team attempted to spin the move as a positive, Hall was an underwhelming contributor who managed to stick around for four years. He hit .273/.303/.437 for the Yanks from 1989-1992 and was out of the Big Leagues and in Japan until attempting an American comeback with the Giants in 1996.

Two years ago, he was arrested on allegations of sexual abuse, and his trial took off this week when his accuser took the stand. The Associated Press has the details, and they are disturbing. If convicted, Hall could face a life in jail.

Update: It seems that Hall was found guilty as well. The jury took 90 minutes to convict him, and sentencing will continue today and tomorrow.

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Blaming the stadium for the pitching woes
Japanese clubs interested in Matsui
  • mvg

    Slightly nitpickey, but I thought Mel Hall went to Japan after he was done w/ the Yanks (or they were done w/ him). Arguing semantics here, but that’s not completely out of baseball in my book.

    • http://www.riveraveblues.com Benjamin Kabak

      You’re right. Corrected. Good catch.

    • Andy in Sunny Daytona

      He must have been in heaven in Japan, especially with the Japanese infatuation with chicks in school girl uniforms.

      • Tim

        That’s wrong.

  • Chris A

    Seriously? Youk? Screw red sox nation, We need to see MT representin. Better glove, better stick….No way Youk is more deserving.

    • whozat

      Well…Both “better glove” and “better stick” are completely debatable. I’d say Tex has a longer track record of excellence, but Youk has been legitimately great this year and last.

      • Andy in Sunny Daytona

        I would be happy if only one Yankee went to the All-Star game. That would let everyone get a nice vacation.

        • King of Fruitless Hypotheticals

          angel berroa. he’s rested and ready to go.

    • http://bronxbaseballdaily.com Matt ACTY/BBD

      2009 only:

      wOBA:
      Youk: .459
      Tex: .422

      UZR/150:
      Youk: 7.6
      Tex: 1.2

      Obviously, I want Tex to start, but Youk is having a hell of a year and, so far, it’s been slightly better than Tex’s.

    • http://twitter.com/tsjc68 tommiesmithjohncarlos a/k/a Ridiculous Upside

      Meh, between Tex, Youkilis, Morneau, or Miggy Cabrera, any of those four guys would be a fine All Star first baseman, they’re all raking pretty equally.

      The real traveshamockery of justice is Josh Hamilton and Ichiro Suzuki being in 2nd and 3rd for the three starting OF spots over Torii Hunter (#5) and Adam Jones (#9).

      Torii Hunter leads all AL outfielders with a .432 wOBA. Jones is third with a .398. Ichiro’s only at .375, and Josh Hamilton’s hurt, and he’s got a .324 wOBA.

      For cripes sake, Hunter and Jones are both playing the hardest of the three outfield positions and they’re putting up lines of .319/.397/.616 and .322/.371/.557 respectively.

      How is a centerfielder who’s slugging .616 not leading all outfielders in votes, for cripes sake? Because Josh Hamilton won the home run derby? Ever since that derby, he’s sucked balls, and he was just a creation of Arlington’s bandbox before that.

      Josh Hamilton = one of the most overrated players in the game

      • http://bronxbaseballdaily.com Matt ACTY/BBD

        Josh Hamilton = one of the most overrated players in the game

        Thaaaaaaaaaaaaaaank you.

      • YankeeScribe

        The All-Star game is based 40% on merit and 60% on popularity…

        • Chris

          I agree.

          It should be 100% popularity.

          • http://bronxbaseballdaily.com Matt ACTY/BBD

            As long as the game determines HFA for the WS, it shouldn’t.

            • http://twitter.com/tsjc68 tommiesmithjohncarlos a/k/a Ridiculous Upside

              I love how we use best record to determine home field advantage for the LDS and LCS, but not the World Series. Because that makes so much damn sense.

              Let’s take it a step further. Winners of the AAA and AA All Star games will be used to determine home field for the LCS, based on farm-team affiliation. And for the LDS, we’ll use best head to head record in Grapefruit and Cactus league action.

              • http://bronxbaseballdaily.com Matt ACTY/BBD

                Someone get Selig on the phone.

                • dkidd

                  selig doesn’t own a phone. you have to contact him via telegraph or pony express

              • http://farm1.static.flickr.com/153/413671602_daded72a81_m.jpg The Honorable Congressman Mondesi

                “I love how we use best record to determine home field advantage for the LDS and LCS, but not the World Series. Because that makes so much damn sense.”

                Well, to be fair, the difference between the LDS and LCS and the WS is, in the LDS and LCS, you’re dealing with teams within one league, so using best record to determine home field is maybe more equitable than it would be if you used it to determine home field in the WS. Using the ASG as the determining factor is stupid, and home field would be better, of course. Just pointing out that there is some sort of rationale there.

              • Andy in Sunny Daytona

                Whatever league wins the most interleague games should have home field advantage in the World Series.
                The All-Star Game is a travshamockery

                • http://bronxbaseballdaily.com Matt ACTY/BBD

                  But that’s BS, too. What if this year it’s an NL West team vs. an AL East team? The NL West got to beat up on the AL West in interleague while the AL East team had to play the NL East, which is definitely better than the AL West. Of course, if it’s Phillies/Mets vs. Red Sox/Yanks, then I guess it doesn’t matter.

                • Chris

                  I assume he’s saying that total records for both leagues (not each individual team). Basically, the better league gets home field advantage.

                • Andy in Sunny Daytona

                  true

                • http://bronxbaseballdaily.com Matt ACTY/BBD

                  Ah, I gotcha.

                • http://farm1.static.flickr.com/153/413671602_daded72a81_m.jpg The Honorable Congressman Mondesi

                  I think Moshe said this a while back, the last time we had this conversation, and I think he was right… I don’t have a huge problem with the ASG determining home field advantage in the WS, because it’s no more arbitrary than any other method would be. I don’t know, I just can’t get worked up about determining home-field through a stupid exhibition over a coin-flip or an alternating-years scheme or any other scheme they could come up with. Whatever they choose, it’ll be arbitrary.

                • Chris

                  Maybe the pennant winners should play a 7 game series in a neutral park, and the winner of that series gets home field advantage for the world series.

                • http://twitter.com/tsjc68 tommiesmithjohncarlos a/k/a Ridiculous Upside

                  I don’t have a huge problem with the ASG determining home field advantage in the WS, because it’s no more arbitrary than any other method would be.

                  Giving home field advantage to the winner of the ASG, or alternating leagues year by year: arbitrary

                  Giving home field advantage to the team with the best record during the regular season: a meritocracy

                • http://farm1.static.flickr.com/153/413671602_daded72a81_m.jpg The Honorable Congressman Mondesi

                  That’s fair enough, I guess awarding home field advantage to the team with the best regular season record would be better. Whatever, I just can’t get worked up about it either way.

                  Just for the sake of conversation… I think MLB would argue that using best regular season record is somewhat arbitrary, too, since the two teams in question will not have compiled their record in the same league against the same competition. (Obvious response – the schedule is unbalanced, so it’s not like teams within the same league compile their records against the same competition, but that’s neither here nor there.) I would assume MLB would build on that argument by saying that they want to treat the two league champs as equals starting on equal footing going into the WS, and they want some sort of arbitrary method to determine home field advantage. So, since they’ve gotten their argument to a place where they’re saying they want something arbitrary, they’d argue, why not base it on the ASG, supposedly making the game more compelling for the fans and players alike, and kill two birds with one stone.

                  Actually… I think the “intent” portion of my theory above is probably the important thing here. We assume they want the most fair way to determine home field advantage, but maybe they want it to be arbitrary. They want to treat the AL and NL champs as total equals, and awarding home field advantage based on an arbitrary scheme is in keeping with that intent.

                • http://twitter.com/tsjc68 tommiesmithjohncarlos a/k/a Ridiculous Upside

                  If they want it to be arbitrary, they should just draw names out of a hat to pick the four playoff teams each year.

                  One of the reasons we watch sports because we value the inherent crafting of meritocracy into the game. Do well, win, and you get rewarded. Do poorly, lose, and you don’t.

                  I didn’t watch the Finals and think to myself, “You know, the Orlando Magic were Conference Champions just like the Lakers were, they should have arbitrarily received equal footing of some sort for this Championship round. This method the NBA uses for their playoff structure is flawed and detracts from the game by placing too much emphasis on regular season wins and losses. The Magic should have gotten home court advantage because LeBron and Dwayne Wade play in the East, and that should count for something here.”

                • Chris

                  Here is my rankings for preferred method of determining home field advantage:

                  1. Head-to-head record
                  2. Overall regular season record
                  3. League record in interleague play
                  4. All-Star game voting
                  5. Alternate league each year
                  6. Coin-flip

                  So we’ve now taken one step up the ladder to improve how it’s decided, and we’ll take another step up in the next 90 years.

                  Also, this is very different from picking the playoff teams at random. Since the All-Start game was used to decide home field advantage, the AL is 6-0. In that time, the AL and NL have each won the world series 3 times.

                • http://farm1.static.flickr.com/153/413671602_daded72a81_m.jpg The Honorable Congressman Mondesi

                  Yeah, but baseball still clings to the illusion that the two leagues are separate but equal and entities distinct from each other. They cling to the illusion that they’re taking the two champions of completely separate leagues and throwing them into a series between champions.

                  Now, maybe they should do away with that illusion. But, if you just accept that that’s how they’re operating, it makes some sense to want an arbitrary method to determine which of these two separate but equal champions should be awarded home field advantage.

                  And just to reiterate – I’m not making these arguments because I necessarily believe them, I stipulated above that awarding home field advantage to the team with the better record probably makes the most sense. Just fleshing out what their argument probably is.

                • Chris

                  I went back and looked at it and there have been 34 World Series that have gone 7 games (none went 9 games when it was best of 9). In those series, the team with home field advantage – and thus playing game 7 at home – is 16-18.

                • Fire Selig

                  Aren’t we forgetting the reason the ASG was made the basis for home field advantage? It had nothing to do with the World Series and everything to do with trying to get interest up in the ASG. 7-7 tie, no pitchers left, a HUGE TV contract……..

              • Chris

                So you’re saying that the old system of swapping between AL and NL was better than the current system?

                Sure, there are better ideas out there, but the All-Star game is better than what we had so it’s at least a step in the right direction.

                • http://bronxbaseballdaily.com Matt ACTY/BBD

                  Both are definitely arbitrary, but the ASG allows players who are definitely not going to be involved in the WS to influence who gets HFA.

                  There’s no perfect system, really, but I’d be fine with better team record.

      • http://farm1.static.flickr.com/153/413671602_daded72a81_m.jpg The Honorable Congressman Mondesi

        Totally agree. Torii in particular has got to be suffering from a bit of West Coast lag since fans in much of the country don’t see his highlights every night. He’s turning in a great season out there.

        • YankeeScribe

          And Adam Jones is suffering from the lack of interest in baseball from the Baltimore fans. I live in the Balt/Wash area and it’s pretty sad how their fans lose interest in their teams by mid-May when all hope of finishing anywhere but last place is gone…

      • Evan NYC

        Meh, who cares. I would rather have my team take 3 days off than play in the All-Star game. And I hope Tex takes a pass on the HR Derby if it’s offered to him.

        • Andy in Sunny Daytona

          I’m going to miss Big Sloppi trying to upstage the Home Run Derby by walking off, or handing water to, or cooling down with a towel, or waving a white flag (did I miss anything) whenever a competitor gets on a Home Run roll.

          • http://twitter.com/tsjc68 tommiesmithjohncarlos a/k/a Ridiculous Upside

            Big Sloppy = baseball’s Dikiembe Mutumbo

            • Andy in Sunny Daytona

              Yeah, but Dikembe doesn’t walk across the court, trying to steal a players thunder during the slam dunk competition. Ortiz is a joke.

              • http://twitter.com/tsjc68 tommiesmithjohncarlos a/k/a Ridiculous Upside

                You = preaching
                Me = the choir

  • nirzhor

    hey what about a ALLSTAR push for Cano ? he has played well and at least should be ahead of Pedroia.

    • whozat

      Pedroia’s got him on OBP by 40 points or so, and their SLG is comparable. And they both play in parks that inflate their numbers a bit, so…

      • http://bronxbaseballdaily.com Matt ACTY/BBD

        DP’s also fielding a lot better at this point, 8.5 UZR/150 to -5.8 UZR/150.

        • ChrisS

          I really dislike the UZR/150. I understand it, but it’s a just like extrapolating a hitter’s hot streak into a season. Especially with defensive metrics, which are full of noise to begin with. All the /150 does is amplify the noise.

    • Bill R

      Cano was included in my 100 votes along with Jeter, Arod, Swisher, Damon and Posada, If i see Jason Veritek on that field again this year i might have a conniption!

  • Bill R

    You can vote up to 25 times per Email address. I have 4 email address so I’ve literally voted 100 times for Tex! I hope there are enough of you die hards out there to help me in my quest!

  • I Remember Celerino Sanchez

    I voted my 25 times for Tex (and Jeter and Posada, too).

    I voted for Kinsler, because I couldn’t bring myself to vote for Pedroia.

    I also voted for Adam Jones, who I think should start.

    • Reggie C.

      I think i’ve voted 15 times or so by now. I should get to 25 by end of business today.

      I too voted for Adam Jones. Dj, Damon, and Teixeria are the only home town position players i can vote for without having my baseball conscious stab at me.

      • http://twitter.com/tsjc68 tommiesmithjohncarlos a/k/a Ridiculous Upside

        Precisely, and I don’t even think Damon really has all that strong of a case. He’s like CC, he’s had a great season, but there’s just way too many other seasons of others that are even greater.

  • http://twitter.com/tsjc68 tommiesmithjohncarlos a/k/a Ridiculous Upside

    Holy crap.

    Justin Upton is not in the top 15 in the NL outfield balloting. He’s not in the top 15.

    Upton’s batting .301/.386/.562. He’s got 29 extra base hits. He’s playing a sparkling rightfield (+4.4 UZR). He’s got a cannon arm. His wOBA of .411 is 4th among NL outfielders, third if you dock Brad Hawpe for his Coors-Field inflation.

    And Shane Victorino, Corey Hart, RIck Ankiel, Ryan Ludwick, Adam Dunn, Andre Ethier, Matt Kemp, and FUCKING KOSUKE FUKUDOME all have more votes than he does.

    This is insane. People disgust me.

    • Andy in Sunny Daytona

      Tell him to get addicted to drugs, waste 6 years of his life, get alot of tattoos, get sober, make a comeback and then come in second in a home run derby. Then people will respect and love him.

      • Bill R

        Touche!

      • http://twitter.com/tsjc68 tommiesmithjohncarlos a/k/a Ridiculous Upside

        He should also become white, just to make sure all his bases are covered. Couldn’t hurt.

        • http://bronxbaseballdaily.com Matt ACTY/BBD

          And thank “God” (why Hamilton doesn’t say “Mo” and “Melvin” when he says God and Jesus is beyond me) at every opportunity.

        • Andy in Sunny Daytona

          Yeah…I didn’t want to touch that.

        • ChrisS

          You mean Hamilton isn’t hurt?

          Suh-weet, he’s no longer a freaking black hole on my fantasy team.

          /suckered

  • YankeeScribe

    Off topic. Now that Sosa has been revealed as another guy who failed those 2003 “anonymous” drug tests does anyone think he’ll get penalized for lying to Congress?

    And Bud Selig’s phony outrage is getting old…

    • Bill R

      You bet he’ll be summoned by congress, Tejada was. I’m just waiting for Ortiz’s name to show up next.

      • YankeeScribe

        They should just release all the names and get it over with. It’s only fair to the guys who were clean and don’t want suspicion clouding their careers.

        • Bill R

          I agree if Arod and Manny and now Sosa have to deal with it everyone else should have to suffer as well. It could get very very very ugly for awhile but i think it needs to happen to clean the game up. I’m just afraid of what we might find out on that list. If Mo o Jeter ever showed up I’d probably become a hermit and live in the mountains of Oregon alone forever.

        • http://twitter.com/tsjc68 tommiesmithjohncarlos a/k/a Ridiculous Upside

          They should just release all the names and get it over with. It’s only fair to the guys who were clean and don’t want suspicion clouding their careers.

          I guarantee you that if they release the other 102 names, the “clean” players who aren’t named on the list will still have suspicion clouding their careers, and they should, because that list isn’t remotely exhaustive.

          There’s plenty of guys who used who won’t show up on any list or in any book.

          • http://farm1.static.flickr.com/153/413671602_daded72a81_m.jpg The Honorable Congressman Mondesi

            Agreed. Nothing will clear the suspicion from anyone who played in that era (or moving forward, which is yet to be seen).

            Like was discussed yesterday, I do think they should release the list after this season, but not because it’s “fair” to the guys who were clean, but because those names are going to come out at some point anyway and it’s better for the fans and for the game to just get it overwith and start to move on.

            • http://twitter.com/tsjc68 tommiesmithjohncarlos a/k/a Ridiculous Upside

              Rule #1 of Public Relations:

              Get out in front of the story

              • http://farm1.static.flickr.com/153/413671602_daded72a81_m.jpg The Honorable Congressman Mondesi

                That was the point I was trying to make a couple of weeks ago when we had that discussion about Cashman’s evasive answers about the fence heights and distances in the new stadium. There was a lot of “well they can’t admit anything, yadda yadda” going on. I think that, when the facts are obvious to the public and can’t be denied, you get out in front of the story, like you just said… “Yeah, we hear what people are saying and we’re monitoring the situation, and if need be we’ll deal with it appropriately in the offseason.” Done, we can all stop asking them the questions all summer.

  • Charlie

    I remember in the offseason TommyJohn… had a lengthy discussion about how the trade for Nady/Marte cannot be deemed a failure because at the time, they were the best players on the market (or something along those lines.)

    I am curious TJSC, at which point can you deem this trade a bad deal, or do you never feel that you can consider it a bad deal? I enjoy reading your points of view and so I would really like to hear it, because I would like someone to talk me out of believing that we got taken to school in this trade.

    • http://farm1.static.flickr.com/153/413671602_daded72a81_m.jpg The Honorable Congressman Mondesi

      If you don’t mind my stepping in… There’s a big difference between whether the trade was a good deal when it was made and when you look back at it in retrospect a few years later. You can think it was a good deal when made and still look back at it a few years later and say “well that didn’t work out as well as hoped,” they’re two different analyses altogether.

      So, if it was a good deal when made, that doesn’t change. I think it was fine, and that won’t change. Now, if Nady’s and Marte’s arms literally fall off and they never play again and McCutchen and Tabata and Ohlendorf turn into HOFers? Yeah, I’ll look back and say “well that didn’t work out as well as hoped.” But that doesn’t change my analysis of the trade when it was made.

      • Charlie

        I agree. I just thought that I remembered Tommy having a different opinion, and I was unsure what exactly it was. I felt the deal was OK at the time, but I was not excited about giving up on Tabata. I realize that he was a bit of a headcase and stuff, but I still didn’t like dealing one of the few positional prospects, especially one as highly regarded as Tabata, and I was curious if TJSC had an opinion… ok, well he ALWAYS has an opinion, but I was curious what it was.

        • http://farm1.static.flickr.com/153/413671602_daded72a81_m.jpg The Honorable Congressman Mondesi

          Gotcha… I think, if anything, there might be some disagreement between certain commenters here about whether you can blame the people responsible for making the trade, a few years later, when you see how things shake out. I think that’s pretty tough – I think that you have to analyze the decision they made at the time they made it, and that’s how you grade their work. Maybe that was what the discussion you’re referring to was about.

          • Charlie

            Yeah I agree. It is tough to blame people who make a deal for the most part because we all forget that its a hobby for us, but a job for others. Not that it is a good reason, but I think if someone knows they either bring in a part to help them look a little better and save their job, or stick it out and suffer while the prospects grow and risk losing their job, they elect to save their job. I realize that its a bad approach, but I think that many (Jim Bowden, Matt Millen) do it.

            • http://farm1.static.flickr.com/153/413671602_daded72a81_m.jpg The Honorable Congressman Mondesi

              “Not that it is a good reason, but I think if someone knows they either bring in a part to help them look a little better and save their job, or stick it out and suffer while the prospects grow and risk losing their job, they elect to save their job.”

              I think that’s an oversimplification and, since you brought it up in a conversation that began with a reference to the Nady deal, I think it’s completely wrong to insinuate that Cashman made that deal in part to help himself in the short-term and save his job instead of sticking it out and suffering while the prospects progressed. Cashman’s job wasn’t on the line, he didn’t even have that motivation, nor has he really ever given us any reason to think he would act that way. The guy catches flack from a lot of people for not being willing to trade prospects, not for dealing them away too quickly.

              The Yankees made that deal because they acquired a solid MLB outfielder in his prime and a proven-effective MLB left-handed reliever in exchange for 3 pitchers who probably never would have gotten any further in the organization than bullpen/occasional spot-starter roles and one very young minor league outfielder with gobs of talent but also with injury, performance, and attitude issues. They thought the two MLB players they acquired could help them make a playoff push last year, and that didn’t work out they way they hoped, and then they hoped those two guys would be productive players and help them get to the playoffs this year (which they may still do). That’s why they made the trade, it wasn’t some cynical move to save Cashman’s job and trade the future for a short-term fix.

              • Charlie

                I brought it up because you said “certain commenters here about whether you can blame the people responsible for making the trade, a few years later, when you see how things shake out.” It had nothing to do with Cashman, which is why I didn’t mention Cashman. I do, however, believe that when someone knows that their neck is on the line, they think about the present more then the future. I did not once say anything about Cashman though, nor did I “insinuate that Cashman made that deal in part to help himself in the short-term and save his job instead of sticking it out and suffering while the prospects progressed.” I do not believe that it is over-simplication though because I do believe that in all walks of life, when someones livelihood is on the line (and not all the people who are in the front office are wealthy enough to just never work again, but I am extending this to all walks of life), they look out for themselves. Fight or flight.

                • http://farm1.static.flickr.com/153/413671602_daded72a81_m.jpg The Honorable Congressman Mondesi

                  “I brought it up because you said ‘certain commenters here about whether you can blame the people responsible for making the trade, a few years later, when you see how things shake out.'”

                  Nothing in the language of mine that you quoted should have led this discussion to the “maybe the GM is making short-term moves at the expense of the long-term future to save his job” territory. Sorry… there’s just no connection there.

                  “It had nothing to do with Cashman, which is why I didn’t mention Cashman.”

                  Like I said above… This conversation started with a reference to the Nady trade and has really been a thinly-veiled discussion of how fans/observers determine whether that particular trade was a success or failure, so bringing up the “maybe the GM is making short-term moves at the expense of the long-term future to save his job” thing out of left field could only be read as a statement that that theory might apply to Cashman. If that stuff had nothing to do with Cashman and, as I said above, couldn’t have been brought up as a result of anything I said, then I don’t understand why it would appear in this conversation.

                  Look… I don’t mean to be a jerk or anything… If you didn’t mean for it to apply to Cashman then I’ll take you at your word. I just don’t see why it would come up, if it’s irrelevant to the discussion we were having, and think maybe you could have explained yourself a little more clearly if that was the case.

                • tommiesmithjohncarlos a/k/a Ridiculous Upside

                  Look… I don’t mean to be a jerk or anything…

                  I don’t wanna sound like a queer or nothin’, but I think Depeche Mode is a pretty sweet band.

    • radnom

      I understand some frustration, but “taken to school”?

      Who in that trade do you want back? It isn’t like anyone we included in that trade is performing well enough where they would actually be contributing to the Yankees this year.

      Get back to me when Tabata actually becomes something.

      • Charlie

        You are missing the point, which is why I asked Tommy. HE had a very interesting thought process on the deal, and I cannot remember what it was. Some friends and I were talking about Nady the other day, and I was trying to remember the discussion.

        And I would like Tabata back, since you asked. “Get back to me when Tabata actually becomes something,” with logic like this, how do you ever evaluate a prospect or a draft? I realize at this point he is nothing, but he is very very young, hit well with Pitt, looked good before he got hurt earlier this year. I just don’t like the attitude of “Get back to me when he does something…”

        • http://twitter.com/tsjc68 tommiesmithjohncarlos a/k/a Ridiculous Upside

          I liked the deal then, I like the deal now.

          Tabata may end up being a good outfielder, but Nady’s been very valuable and Marte has as well.

          The three pitchers frankly have some ability but they’d be so far down our depth charts that they’re way more valuable to the Pirates than they’d ever be with us.

          • Charlie

            Can you elaborate on how Nady and Marte have been valuable? Marte I can kind of see because we didn’t have to give up another draft pick since he would have been a type A, and we didn’t have to question if he would have been available period to us. But what have they done to show their value? Maybe I am wrong, but it seems like Nady only caused us to have a slightly lower draft pick last year, lol, which kind of hurts more then helps.

            • Charlie

              we may not have made the playoffs last year, but nady was very good for us and got lots of clutch hits. He will come back to the team pretty soon this year, and when he’s healthy he’s shown he can be very productive, same with Marte. They haven’t been very valuable yet, but by the end of the year we will have gotten our crappy prospects worth out of them. Maybe i’ll change my name, must be weird to see charlie replying to charlie. IDENTITY THEFT!! I’M THE ORIGINAL!!

            • http://twitter.com/tsjc68 tommiesmithjohncarlos a/k/a Ridiculous Upside

              Maybe I am wrong, but it seems like Nady only caused us to have a slightly lower draft pick last year, lol, which kind of hurts more then helps.

              It’s not Nady and Marte’s fault we missed the playoffs last year. They made us better.

              Hard to label the guys brought in via a trade as “not valuable” when they did their job but other guys on the team didn’t.

        • Charlie

          any chance you could change your name?

        • radnom


          You are missing the point, which is why I asked Tommy.

          No I didn’t. I ignored the main portion of your question and specifically addressed a certain belief you mentioned.


          And I would like Tabata back, since you asked. “Get back to me when Tabata actually becomes something,” with logic like this, how do you ever evaluate a prospect or a draft? I realize at this point he is nothing, but he is very very young, hit well with Pitt, looked good before he got hurt earlier this year. I just don’t like the attitude of “Get back to me when he does something…”

          Perhaps I worded it poorly, but I didn’t think it had to be explained. We got X amount of production out of Nady and Marte last season and we will get Y amount additional production out of Nady this year when he gets back. X + Y, equaling the total value of the deal, may not be as much as we originally had hoped but it is certainly well above zero.
          On the flip side, the amount of value the pieces we gave away would have produced for the Major League roster is 0 (or quite close to it, considering the current roster construction).

          I realize you were asking about judging a trade at the time compared to in the future, but in asking you also made the assertion that we got hosed on the deal. What I am saying is that X + Y > 0 meaning we still made out better on the deal as of today. Now, perhaps someday Tabata becomes an all star and greatly increases the right side of that equation but right now that is a very, very slim possibility. I still, as of today, like my X and Y over the chances of Tabata.

      • ChrisS

        would actually be contributing to the Yankees this year.

        I think this is a poor way to evaluate prospect trades. Montero isn’t going to do shit the Yankees this year or next likely. Ship his ass to Colorado for Street.

    • Stryker

      eh. all 4 of the players we traded for nady and marte are/were practically spare parts. karstens is trash (and pitching to an ERA+ of 81 thus far). don’t let ohlendorf’s 6 wins deceive you – in his time in pittsburgh he’s got an ERA touching 5. tabata, if you’ll recall, was being a bit of a baby about his development (or lack thereof) and was injured much of 2008. dan mccutchen wasn’t that much of a prospect on the yankees and he isn’t much of a prospect on the pirates(!) either.

      in acquiring nady and marte we got a fairly solid left fielder with some pop and one of the best relievers in the game – injuries to both notwithstanding. getting 2 above average players for 3 spare parts with no future on the team and a top prospect seems like a solid deal to me.

      • jsbrendog

        “in acquiring nady and marte we got a fairly solid left fielder with some pop and one of the best relievers in the game”

        But marte Stinks!!

        \ignorant’d

    • Chris

      We gave up four players that would not have made the team. Karstens, Ohlendorf and McCutchen could have helped Scranton, but there was no way they were making this team as starters, and probably only Ohlendorf would have had a shot as a reliever. And Tabata is currently hitting .257/.333/.300 in AA.

      So basically, the deal was that we gave up one potential right handed reliever for a left handed reliever and starting outfielder. I’ll take that deal every day.

    • http://twitter.com/tsjc68 tommiesmithjohncarlos a/k/a Ridiculous Upside

      Here’s the deal on the deal:

      We traded a decent OF prospect and three filler guys who we had no use for for a half season of one of the very best lefty relievers in the game and a season and a half of a very good power-hitting corner outfielder. We then used our inside negotiating advantage of having Marte in-house to lock him up for three more years, which was probably a year more than I liked, but still is a good deal, all things considered (since lefty relievers always have decent trade value).

      That trade made a ton of sense. The only reason it’s viewed unfavorably in retrospect is because both guys ended up getting injured. And, neither of them really had any recent injury history to be concerned with, so both injuries were basically unpredictable.

      Had Nady and Marte both been healthy right now, the trade would probably look like a slam dunk, as opposed to an alley-oop.

      It wasn’t a bad trade then, it’s not a bad trade now.

      • Charlie

        Gotcha. Thanks man. I just remember some people fighting you about the points, but I pretty much agree with you. I do wish Tabata was still in our system, but you have to give up something to get something in this world.

      • Jake K.

        Isn’t an alley-oop a type of slam dunk?

        • Charlie

          lol, yea

          • http://twitter.com/tsjc68 tommiesmithjohncarlos a/k/a Ridiculous Upside

            Touché.

            Call it a finger-roll, then.

      • I Remember Celerino Sanchez

        I agree 100 percent.

        Also, you have to judge a deal at the time it takes place if you want to be fair to the GMs. Like, I don’t care if Humber and Gomez become HOFers, the Minnesota GM should have been fired for the Santana trade. At the time of deal, he took a sorry looking package for arguably the best pitcher in the league.

        Applied to 2008, Nady was one of the most in-demand bats out there, and Marte was the premiere lefty reliever on the market, and Cash got them both for a troubled prospect who probably had to be moved for his own development, and three pitchers that would have had trouble retaining 40-man roster spots before the Rule V draft (Ohlendorf would have, but the other two probably wouldn’t have made the cut). In essence, he had to trade three of the four guys (and the fourth guy, Ohlendorf, probably wasn’t making the 25-man coming out of ST).

        So, at the time of the trade, it was a very smart one for the Yankees.

      • ChrisS

        I really wouldn’t call Nady a very good hitter. He’s a little better than league average (105 career OPS+) with a 4:1 K:BB ratio. According to B-Ref, last year there were 39 (46) OFers that qualified for the batting title with a 105 (95) OPS+ or higher.

        My only concern with the trade had been whether this was the best that Cashman could do talent-wise and whether he paid more for Nady than he had to because Nady was having an other-worldly first half, or if that was the best he could do with what he was willing to give up. And it was a case of buying high and selling low. Tabata’s value, as as much as he had, was as low as it had ever been and Nady was at his peak. Did this affect who was swapped? I don’t know, I wasn’t involved, but I never thought it was a great trade.

        so both injuries were basically unpredictable.

        Except Nady having Tommy John surgery before, albeit 7 years ago, and before his age-29 season he had never played more than even 130 games. And Marte was a 32-year old reliever. Pitchers breakdown. If a certain starter that’s big and burly broke down tomorrow with a torn labrum, I wouldn’t be surprised. Because despite him not having recent injury history, pitchers are brittle.

        • Chris

          Having already had TJ surgery does not increase his likelihood of injury. The reason he hadn’t played a full season is that until the last couple years, Nady exhibited a significant platoon split that slowly disappeared (I don’t know whether this was just luck or actual skill).

          As for Tabata, the question is whether his trade value would be higher now (or any time in the future) than it was last year. Based on his performance since the trade, I’m not convinced that he would regain significant value in the next couple of years.

  • Chris G

    Mel Hall was always a creepy guys. He lived in Fairfield CT during his time with the Yankees and was dating a Junior at Fairfield High where I was going. I always thought it was BS until he picked her up after school one day and kissed her. I was slacked jawed. The girl was 16 or 17 and no one cared. This was 1992 but it was creepy to me even then.

    • http://bronxbaseballdaily.com Matt ACTY/BBD

      Could’ve been worse.

      (Insert tasteless Alex Kelly joke here)

  • Mattingly’s Love Child

    Mel Hall….my father hated him so much for his penchant for not hustling, ever. One of my funniest memories of my childhood. 1990, Yanks losing to the Sox in the ninth, base loaded, Mel Hall vs Jeff Reardon. My father says, “Mel if you hit this out I’ll never call you a dog again.” And BOOM, grand slam, Yankees win. One of the VERY few bright spots of 1990….

    • Andy in Sunny Daytona

      Did your Dad keep his promise?

      • Mattingly’s Love Child

        Amazingly yes. Though it pained him to watch Hall continue to not demonstrate any hustle whatsoever.

    • I Remember Celerino Sanchez

      Plus, IIRC, Hall was horrible to a young, shy rookie named Bernie Williams. Supposedly, he was so hard on him for being different (Bernie committed the unpardonable sin of being, gasp, smart), it affected Bernie’s performance early on.

      I remember something along the lines of Mattingly finally deciding to step in and protect Bernie from Hall.

  • ARX

    I don’t claim to understand how UZR is calculated but I really don’t get how Teix’s is only a 1.2 with the defense he’s played so far this year.

    • ARX

      Bah that was meant to be a reply….

    • V

      I’m not terribly thrilled by UZR, myself, but I might be in the minority.

      Btw, though, I think Teixeira’s #1 asset on defense is his glove (all of the bad throws he scoops up). He’s caught a LOT of horrid throws from Jeter+Cano that would be errors with Giambi at 1B.

      • http://twitter.com/tsjc68 tommiesmithjohncarlos a/k/a Ridiculous Upside

        Good point.

        Giambi was bad both in terms of zone rating/range AND in terms of glovework. Tex may be only average thus far in terms of range, but he’s great with his glovework.

        Any way you slice it, though, he’s a big upgrade in both departments.

        Tex has a +0.3 UZR. Last season, he finished at +10.6. He’ll pick it up over the course of the season. From 2002-2009, Giambi has yet to post a single positive UZR at 1B.

      • Andy in Sunny Daytona

        I haven’t seen Derek or Robbie or really anyone make that many bad throws at all this year. I’m sure Teixeira’s UZR is penalized because Robbie can go to his left so well.

        • http://twitter.com/tsjc68 tommiesmithjohncarlos a/k/a Ridiculous Upside

          Meh, not that much. The zones toward Tex’s right and Robbie’s left will have some overlap, sure, but they’re weighted in terms of how much each player is actually expected to make a play there.

          So, the balls that Robinson gets to at the far edges of Tex’s 1B zones that Tex thus doesn’t have opportunity to field do negatively impact his UZR (since he didn’t make an out there), but since the average 1B is only expected to field maybe 10% of those balls in the first place, the negative impact is pretty small.

          Read the “How a Player’s UZR Runs is Calculated in each Zone” section of the following for more detail.

          http://www.baseballthinkfactor.....3-03-14_0/

          • Andy in Sunny Daytona

            So what are the repercussions if a shortstop makes a play way left of second base on a shift? Or a 2nd baseman fielding a ball in deep right field? Or a 3rd baseman at short?

            • Ed

              1) Shortstop gets a large boost to his rating while the second baseman’s rating goes down.

              2) Nothing, as for infielders only ground balls are tracked. Probably lowers the right fielder’s rating though.

              3) Third baseman’s rating goes up, shortstop’s goes down.

        • ChrisS

          Teixeira made a couple of nice picks just last night stretching for throws in the dirt north of the bag. The last being a throw from Cano that I thought was going to be an error.

  • Dominik

    Haha, I originally read this story as being Mel Allen and started to plan out numerous “How about that?” jokes before I discovered the error of my ways.

  • Joba the Hut

    Pete Abraham doesn’t seem to think the All Star game matters.

    I’d have agreed if Selig didn’t give home field advantage during the World Series to the winning league.

    Another Selig failure.

  • http://myspace.com/lincolnsworld Link

    I will always remember Mel Hall for when he blew his hamsring running home and crawled to try to score. They used to have a commercial and showed that clip when saying ‘the agony of defeat’ lol…also when he was on the Yankees I used to play baseball on the side of my friends house and we would mimic the starting lineups of the Yanks and he would be the Mutts..I mean Mets…good times…

  • dick

    Mel Hall is innocent. Where is the OJ jury when he needed them?

  • Vote Teixeira

    I have to be honest. I have a job which allows me HOURS upon HOURS of time and I have been voting for the All Star Game with every email address in my company’s book. I voted a lot. I may not be a bot. BUT let’s say I maybe cut that lead in half the past two days…like the T SHIRTS say F YOUK and BUCK FOSTON!!!

  • dc1874

    Jury gave him 45 years…..has to do 22 before parole…..

  • http://melhall mel hall

    melhalljr.com

    This is the truth for you true New Yorkers….as the prosecutor quoted in her closing argument, hands raised high above her chubby frame “we’ll show those NY Yankees how Texas does it!”…..please read the racist and appalling civil rights broken to get Mel where he is today. Texas enjoys and is proud of doing everything “different” more “arrogant” and “bigger” than the rest of America. WEll, I believe a racist, alcoholic judge sleeping with the prosecution would about slant the tables for any professional black athlete. Shannon’s mother had a 2 yrs long affair with Mel and Chastity was an adult when her family & mother prostituted her out (quoted from her rant on the stand for an hour). “YOU NEVER LOVED ME MEL!” was all the jury heard for 45 minutes in court. She brought her shoebox of decade old memorbelia lamenated pretty by the classy prosecutor. Remember now…Chastity wanted to be a MODEL….never lived in Trump Tower, and gained over $600k from Mel ……hhhhmmm sounds like a family therapy session is in need…..Fernandez look up Dr. Drew Please…….good luck!