Jul
28

Wang to have season ending surgery

By

PeteAbe’s got the news. The surgery will happen tomorrow morning, presumably by Dr. James Andrews since he performed Wang’s previous shoulder operation back in 2001. No word on the exact injury, but there was talk of a possible rotator cuff tear. Depending on the severity, Wang may miss a big chunk of the 2010 season as well. It’s a shame, hope the surgery goes well tomorrow.

Update (10:21pm): Marc Carig tweets that it’s the same surgery Jorge Posada had last year, confirming that the problem is his rotator cuff indicating that the problem is a labrum tear. Posada had his surgery almost a year ago to the day, and was not able to start Spring Training on time. Given how much more important shoulders are for pitchers than catchers, it’s easy to envision a scenario where Wang is out until the 2010 All Star break.

Categories : Asides, Injuries
  • Accent Shallow

    [redacted]

    This is bad.

    I know shoulder surgery isn’t the kiss of death it was in 2004, but this isn’t Tommy John. I hope I’m wrong, but we may have seen the last of Good Wang.

    • http://twitter.com/tsjc68 tommiesmithjohncarlos a/k/a Ridiculous Upside

      I hope I’m wrong, but we may have seen the last of Good Wang.

      This is why you don’t give young pitchers lucrative extensions, huh?

      Let’s hope this news doesn’t cause us to do anything stupid in a panic move *cough*arroyo*cough*.

      • http://bronxbaseballdaily.com Matt ACTY/BBD

        Or Washburn.

        • gio

          Why wouldn’tyou want Washburn. Outside of Duchsherer, Wash is the best alternative to Mitre our there.

          • http://bronxbaseballdaily.com Matt ACTY/BBD

            Because Washburn is a fly ball pitcher who pitches in front of the best OF defense in the league and pitches in an extreme pitcher’s park (batting park factor of 96 this year, pitching park factor of 97, under 100 favors pitchers). He would most likely not be the same pitcher for the Yankees that he is for the Mariners.

      • Tim

        Well, now people can’t say that Hughes shouldn’t be moved back in the rotation because Wang should be back. Now all the Yankees need to do is sure up the bullpen by adding a good set up man, then it should be safe to move Hughes back in the rotation. But, I don’t think it’s happening.

        • http://bronxbaseballdaily.com Matt ACTY/BBD

          Yeah, they should start that transition. I hope they do.

          • Accent Shallow

            If not Hughes, it’ll at least be Aceves, right?

            (I’m not crazy about Hughes in the pen and Aceves in the rotation, I think that’s weaker than Hughes in the rotation and Aceves in the pen. Of course, as long as it wins games . . .)

        • Mikebk

          hughes is not going back to the rotation this year. if anyone it will be ace.

          • http://bronxbaseballdaily.com Matt ACTY/BBD

            Which, IMO, would be a bad move.

            • http://twitter.com/tsjc68 tommiesmithjohncarlos a/k/a Ridiculous Upside

              Yup. Especially with Joba headed TO the bullpen this year, moving Ace to the rotation in order to keep Hughes in the pen is foolish overkill. A Mo-Ace-Coke-Joba-Bruney-Melancon-Marte pen is way more than sufficient.

              Hughes and Joba should be flip-flopped. One of them should be in the rotation, minimum.

              • http://bronxbaseballdaily.com Matt ACTY/BBD

                Word. I will say, though, that I am excited to watch the two of them in the rotation for the next 10+ years. :)

                • Accent Shallow

                  Hate to kill the buzz, but that is unlikely as hell.

                • http://bronxbaseballdaily.com Matt ACTY/BBD

                  Psh.

                • Accent Shallow

                  Hey, I’d love for that to happen as much as you (since that’d likely mean lots of rings), but young pitching will break your heart.

  • Brian

    Best of luck to him, hate to see this happen to him. Hopefully he gets healthy again and can revive his career. I really feel for him right now.

  • http://bronxbaseballdaily.com Matt ACTY/BBD

    Good luck, CMW.

  • Teix is the Man

    Just take a viagra for that!
    -zzzzzzzzzzzziiiiiiiiiiiinnnnnnnnggggg

    • Teix is the Man

      Reply to accent shallow

  • Zach

    What was Wang’s surgery in 2001 for?

    • http://www.riveraveblues.com Mike Axisa

      Torn labrum & rotator cuff. Missed the entire 2001 season.

  • Mikebk

    shoulder is a lot worse than elbow these days and i would think it probably does mean most if not all of 2010. now since he is up for arb this year, to the yanks non-tender or they sign him anyway?

    • Mikebk

      do the yanks, sorry for the typo.

      • http://twitter.com/tsjc68 tommiesmithjohncarlos a/k/a Ridiculous Upside

        We’re not going to non-tender the guy. We’ll offer him arb at a low number and most likely settle well in advance of the hearing. CMW’s agent won’t push for a raise on the heels of this wasted season.

        • AndrewYF

          Unfortunately the lowest the Yankees can go is 80% of $5 million…which is $4 million.

  • Nady Nation

    Man, what a brutal year Wang’s had, going back to the freak injury in Houston last summer. Here’s to a speedy recovery for CMW, and hopefully he can help us out in the second half of 2010.

  • E-ROC

    Tough news for Wang. He was on top of the world, then a freak injury happens. Leads to poor mechanics and now shoulder surgery. Hopefully, he makes a full recovery.

    I wonder if changes Cashman’s approach at the deadline. Probably not, but Pettitte might be back for another year in pinstripes.

    • Mikebk

      hope not…dont think this will cause cash to panic.

  • Rich James

    Good luck Wang…

  • Lanny

    Looks like we’ve seen the last of Wang as a Yankee. Shows how fragile pitchers are even ones who seem like innings eaters. It is why Philly is nuts if they dont give Drabek for Halladay. And why the Yankees will be adding depth to the rotation.

    • http://twitter.com/tsjc68 tommiesmithjohncarlos a/k/a Ridiculous Upside

      Looks like we’ve seen the last of Wang as a Yankee. Shows how fragile pitchers are even ones who seem like innings eaters.

      Yup.

      It is why Philly is nuts if they dont give Drabek for Halladay.

      Yeah… wait, what? That doesn’t follow from the first statement. The Phillies will have to give up multiple pitchers for one pitcher in the Halladay deal. You’re statement that all pitchers are fragile should indicate that the Phillies should be MORE risk averse about trading for a pitcher and should be LESS inclined to deal more players for fewer ones since each pitcher is just one injury away from a 2+ year odyssey in the wilderness.

  • http://twitter.com/tsjc68 tommiesmithjohncarlos a/k/a Ridiculous Upside

    My immediate, spur of the moment plan:

    1) Give CC/AJ/Joba/Hughes the first four spots in the rotation for 2010
    2) Anoint IPK, Mitre, McAllister, and Nova as the favorites for the in-house 5th starter spring derby
    3) Look for a young/out of favor salary dump starter to add to depth, like Ian Snell (similar to how we bought low on Nick Swisher this year)
    4) Sign one (or preferably two) buy-low rehab starters (like what the Sox did this year to fill out the back of their rotation) to one year incentive laden deals, like Kelvim Escobar, Justin Duchsherer, Tim Hudson (if his option isn’t picked up), Jason Schmidt, or my personal favorite, my boy Ben Sheets
    5) Hope that Wang makes it back by August, but if he doesn’t, know that we’re sitting pretty depth-wise.

    • Steve H

      Sounds great.

      But why not Smoltz and Penny? If Theo signed them, they must be great. Of course the Yanks would have to give Smoltz 6 years/$150 mil. And Penny 5/$82, since he’s the same pitcher as AJ.

      • Mikebk

        i love how every serious comment has to met with a BS one to make fun of ESPN.

        • Steve H

          The scary thing is that alot of the BS comments aren’t that far over the top of what you really do hear/read on ESPN. The Smoltz thing was obviously outreageous, but the Penny=AJ, yet the Yankees paid 16x more for Penny (ignoring contract length of course) was a big thing for ESPN. They had similar stats. No one really wanted to point out Penny was coming off a horrible season in the NL West, while AJ had 3 solid seasons in the AL East (and not for the Sox/Yankees, meaning he had to face them both, a ton.)

          • Mikebk

            i didnt say they didnt say it. im just saying it is not necessary to keep going there in here. we all know how outrageous their bias has been, but a serious yankee conversation can happen without going there, but maybe im just too serious.

            • http://twitter.com/tsjc68 tommiesmithjohncarlos a/k/a Ridiculous Upside

              Yeah, we’re not that serious. We’re all hopped up on goofballs.

              • Steve H

                Those goofy bastards are about the best thing I’ve got going.

                • http://twitter.com/tsjc68 tommiesmithjohncarlos a/k/a Ridiculous Upside

                  - Well, have you been to, uh well, let me see… Santiago, Chile?
                  – Twice last year! Which building’s yours?
                  – Are you familiar with the soccer stadium?
                  – [Awed] Did you build the Estadio Olimpico?
                  – No, just down the street, the Celinto Catayente Towers. It’s quite a fine example, in fact. I recommend that next time you’re up that way that you drop in and… take a gander at it yourself.

    • http://bronxbaseballdaily.com Matt ACTY/BBD

      Matt approves.

    • Thomas A. Anderson

      Not a bad plan at all imo.

      All in favor say “aye.”

    • Accent Shallow

      I don’t necessarily disagree, but while CC/AJ/Joba/Hughes/random 5th in house option has off the charts upside potential, it could also turn ugly pretty quickly. Joba and Hughes are still young enough that we can’t just pencil them in and forget about it, and AJ has had his injury issues. I think they could use another veteran rotation option, but I’m not sure there’s anyone out there who’s any good who’ll come cheap.

      Obviously, CMW would really have solidified that out of ST rotation, so I’m not sure that another starter isn’t happening, and not necessarily of the buy-low/injury recovery variety.

      • Mikebk

        could always sign Duchscherer and he can be a reliever/starter depending on need at any given time sort of like Ace.

        • Accent Shallow

          If he can recover from his surgery.

          ‘course, he had non-TJ elbow surgery, but still.

      • Marcos

        I think you’re right with the fact that while it would be an amazing rotation, it could go sour pretty fast. So I think that the best short term and mid term plan is to trade for Cliff Lee, so that the Rotation now is: CC/AJ/Petttte/Joba/Lee (as much as I want the Yanks to stretch out Hughes this season) so then we pick up Lee’s option for next year (its at or under 10M right? so its pretty cost effective)
        and then next year the rotation looks like: CC/AJ/Lee/Joba/Hughes with the 6th man being the in house option (ZMac, Nova, IPK, etc).
        Then in 2011 well see how things look like, probably CC/AJ/Joba/Hughes/ either in house option or FA pickup

        • http://twitter.com/tsjc68 tommiesmithjohncarlos a/k/a Ridiculous Upside

          Neither your 2009 nor 2010 configurations are possible because we’d have to give up one (or both) of Joba or Hughes for Lee.

    • Ed

      I agree with your plan if and only if Hughes is moved back to the rotation soon and pitches effectively the rest of the way.

      If not, Hughes + open #5 spot is just a repeat of 2008’s Hughes + IPK. While Hughes has been great out of the pen this year, the bullpen is an easier job and he really hasn’t pitched many major league innings since then (or minor league really).

      • http://twitter.com/tsjc68 tommiesmithjohncarlos a/k/a Ridiculous Upside

        If not, Hughes + open #5 spot is just a repeat of 2008’s Hughes + IPK.

        No, because 2008 isn’t 2010. Both Hughes and Kennedy will be two years older. Two years doesn’t always make you a better pitcher, but it usually makes you a better pitcher. I think both Hughes and Kennedy have improved since their 2008 washouts; I can’t see how you can quibble with that statement much.

        • Ed

          I think both Hughes and Kennedy have improved since their 2008 washouts

          Yes, they have, but their 2008 seasons were spectacularly bad, so that’s not really saying much.

          Kennedy missed a good chunk of ’08 with an injury and will miss almost all of ’09. If he hasn’t pitched much in that time, the odds of him improving significantly are low.

          Hughes missed even more of ’08 than Kennedy did. His ’09 has mostly been 1 inning relief stints, and you’ve been pretty big on saying why that’s hurting his development.

          Since his demotion, we’re basically talking half a season of minor league work for Kennedy, all split up due to injuries. Likewise, Hughes has about half a season of starting split between the majors and minors, and a few months of light relief work. Anyone else in consideration for the last spot would have even less experience above AA than these guys.

          And all of this is also ignoring that Joba isn’t a sure thing yet either. Just two weeks ago we were making a case that he should be demoted to AAA for a while.

          One last thing… don’t forget all the innings limits involved. You’re setting up a rotation where spots 3-5 are probably capped at around 180 innings or less.

          • http://twitter.com/tsjc68 tommiesmithjohncarlos a/k/a Ridiculous Upside

            All valid points. But, Joba and Hughes have both shown enough at the big league level that they can be handed rotation spots, and Kennedy (provided he has no setbacks in winter ball) has shown enough in minor league action to warrant being considered for the 5th spot competition (with others).

            But, yes, we should have multiple fallback/supplement options for them. Hence, my suggested Mitre/McAllister/Nova/Snell/Sheets/Escobar/Hudson/Duchsherer/etc.

            • Ed

              The optimist in me agrees with you.

              The pessimist in me sees that approach bombing spectacularly. Even more so when I think of Burnett’s history.

              Considering the team has just been piling up an absurd number of injuries for the last four years, I lean toward the pessimistic side. I’ve gotten tired of saying “The Yankees would be in great shape except for the freak injury to XXX”.

            • Reggie C.

              Absolutely Interesting and far too ambitious to be realized..

              Of all those guys , I’d like to see Cash make a hard run at Tim Hudson. McAllister and Nova will make a mean AAA core and would be available to spot start. Not sure if you simply put all those names down b/c you dont see Cash doing Anything at the deadline, but realistically I think Sheets would have better offers.

              So if it came down to selecting 1 of: Hudson, Snell, and Duchs … its Hudson.

              • http://twitter.com/tsjc68 tommiesmithjohncarlos a/k/a Ridiculous Upside

                Why just one, though? Why not trade for Snell AND sign Hudson (or Dukes)?

    • pollo

      why do i feel like we’ve been down this road before? 2008 anyone?

      we need another front line starter. Young pitchers are volatile commidities. There is no guarantee we get production out of Hughes, Joba and number 5.

      We need a frontline starter + a good hedge Durscher, Kelvim etc.

      • http://bronxbaseballdaily.com Matt ACTY/BBD

        Hughes + Joba in ’10 are most likely going to be much, much better than Hughes + Kennedy in ’08. As for a frontline starter, I’d say a one year deal with a guy like Sheets would be sufficient.

        • Ed

          Hughes + Joba in ‘10 are most likely going to be much, much better than Hughes + Kennedy in ‘08.

          I agree with you on that, but, tommie’s idea was Joba + Hughes + open audition. That’s 3 guys with growing pains and innings limit issues instead of just 2.

          • http://twitter.com/tsjc68 tommiesmithjohncarlos a/k/a Ridiculous Upside

            I agree with you on that, but, tommie’s idea was Joba + Hughes + open audition. That’s 3 guys with growing pains and innings limit issues instead of just 2.

            No, that wasn’t my plan. I wrote several other dozens of words. Please don’t attack a watered down strawman version of my argument.

            • Ed

              Yes, you wrote a lot more words. You suggested a lot of ways to build depth by acquiring pitchers from a list of guys that are either have injury or performance concerns.

              Does it make you happier if I change my words to “That’s 3 guys with growing pains, innings limits, injury concerns, or bad track records instead of just 2.” ?

              My complaint with your plan is that the rotation would only have 2 established, reliable pitchers in it. And that’s assuming Burnett is over his injury issues. The names in the last 3 spots aren’t the issue.

              • http://twitter.com/tsjc68 tommiesmithjohncarlos a/k/a Ridiculous Upside

                The names in the last three spots are the issue if you make it seem like I only have three potential names to fill them and not 7-10 names like I suggested. My plan is:
                1) CC
                2) AJ
                3) Joba
                4) Hughes
                5) Duchsherer/Hudson/Sheets/Escobar/Schmidt
                6) Snell
                7) Kennedy
                8) Mitre
                9) Nova
                10) McAllister
                11) Wang

                Do all nine of those last 11 pitchers have question marks in one way or another? Yeah, probably. Are the odds good that at least four or five of those nine will pitch effectively? Yes, they are.

                Safety in numbers.

                • Ed

                  The names in the last three spots are the issue if you make it seem like I only have three potential names to fill them and not 7-10 names like I suggested.

                  That wasn’t in any way what I was trying to say.

                  Are the odds good that at least four or five of those nine will pitch effectively? Yes, they are.

                  I’ve learned to disagree with that. Look at this season – Wang failed spectacularly, Hughes and Aceves (who may have injury issues) got moved to the pen and aren’t being considered for the rotation, Kennedy got hurt. Kontos (who was probably pretty far down the list) is out with Tommy John surgery. That’s already 5 guys off the depth chart. Joba’s going to hit his innings limit soon, moving us another spot down the list.

                  And all that is with starting the season with only Joba being considered questionable. Maybe Wang too if you were pessimistic.

    • A.D.

      Other option is to hit the panic button and trade for Lee. Then you have CC, AJ, Joba, Lee, whomever is left after the Lee trade.

      Not saying I support the idea, but its an option.

      • http://twitter.com/tsjc68 tommiesmithjohncarlos a/k/a Ridiculous Upside

        As much as it pains me to say this, I’d rather trade one exceedingly mediocre young player for crappy, overpaid Bronson Arroyo than trade numerous exceedingly good young players for great, appropriately paid Cliff Lee.

        • A.D.

          I disagree, I’d rather not have Arroyo then have him if there is a cost.

          • http://twitter.com/tsjc68 tommiesmithjohncarlos a/k/a Ridiculous Upside

            Yes, I’ve always said no Arroyo is better than some Arroyo, but if my either or is trading nothing for Arroyo or trading something for Lee, I’ll choose trading nothing for Arroyo. Lee will be like Halladay: too expensive in prospect cost.

            I’d rather be saddled with Arroyo for a year and change than lose the rest of any of Joba/Hughes/Montero/AJax’s careers.

    • Chris

      You know who woul d make a great cheap pickup as a rehab candidate? Sergio Mitre.

  • zzzz

    i can’t help but think what a 2007 wang would have been like in this rotation right now. its all i’ve been thinking about, and now theres a possibility we’ll never see wang like that ever again. how unfortunate.

  • Rich James

    i don’t think you can expect anything from Wang next year…me may return next season but he can not be in the yankees plans

  • Ed

    According to this, Posada’s injury was the labrum. His rotator cuff was fine.

    Not sure what the difference is in odds of recovery, but, it’s a different injury.

    • Accent Shallow

      I’m under the impression that a labrum injury is even worse than a rotator cuff injury for a pitcher.

      Regardless, this is awful.

  • RollingWave

    Uggggggggggggggggggggggggggggh.

    Thanks for holding down the fort in the Yankees darkest days of prospects. good luck and hope for a full recovery.

    • Accent Shallow

      Yeah. Wang when he’s on is possibly my favorite pitcher to watch.

  • Steve H

    It’s never good when they have to cut into a Wang.

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  • Reggie C.

    I wonder if Cash could contemplate the following:

    Trading for Jarrod Washburn and Brandon Morrow fits both the need of a starter and ‘pen guy in 2009. Going forward Washburn should be allowed to walk. Morrow could either then remain in the ‘pen as the eventual successor to Mariano and ably serve as the “8th inning” go-to-man, or be made a starter from Spring Training.

    The rotation in 2010 could therefore look like: CC, Aj, Morrow, Joba, and Hughes.
    – If the Yanks decide to utilize Morrow’s arm as a reliever, the rotation goes 1 man short and the option of signing Washburn remains. I think whoever gets the #3 spot next season has to be a veteran … and that makes me lean towards keeping Morrow in the ‘pen.

    • Jack

      In this scenario, what are the Yanks giving up for Washburn + Morrow?

      • gio

        Too much. The end.

      • http://twitter.com/tsjc68 tommiesmithjohncarlos a/k/a Ridiculous Upside

        In this scenario, what are the Yanks giving up for Washburn + Morrow?

        Luke Scott.

        BOOM, THAT JUST HAPPENED. IS YOUR MIND BLOWN?

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  • King of Fruitless Hypotheticals

    Dammit you guys have broken me…first thing I thought was OFF TOPIC…

    Ax when are you just going to delete off topics?

    Anyway, I was thinking of taking some flowers or candles down there tomorrow–any special requests?