Just say no to Sergio

Yanks start strong but can't fend off Jays
Eric Hinske 'having a great time being a Yankee'

A few days ago, the Red Sox cut ties with John Smoltz because he couldn’t get Major League hitters out. Over eight starts spanning 40 innings — just 5 IP per start — Smoltz had allowed 59 hits, 39 earned runs and eight home runs. While his proponents pointed to a decent 33/9 K/BB ratio, Smoltz had nothing, and the Red Sox knew it.

Last night, Sergio Mitre made his fifth start in Yankee pinstripes, and he is nearly Smoltzian in his efforts. In his five starts, Mitre is averaging 4.6 innings pitched per outing. He has allowed 38 hits in 23 innings. He has surrendered 4 home runs and has a K/BB rate of 15/6. That 1.91 WHIP is helping no one.

Staked to a lead he could not hold, Mitre got off to a decent start last night. He recorded six of his first nine outs via the K, but in the fourth, he couldn’t make his pitches. He threw an easy double play ball into center field for a costly error and needed 96 pitches to record 15 outs. His own error aside, it was an ugly outing.

In recapping the game last night, Joe wrote, “There’s no shame in having a seven-game win streak snapped with your fifth starter on the mound.” He also expressed his belief that Alfredo Aceves could wind up drawing the start on Saturday in Seattle against the Mariners instead of Mitre. I’d like to take that argument a bit futher: Sergio Mitre should not be the starting pitcher come Saturday.

Right now, Mitre is offering up the same nothing for the Yanks that Smoltz gave the Red Sox. The best I can say is that he hasn’t walked too many hitters. As a supposed sinkerball specialist, he’s given up too many home runs. As a pitcher, he has allowed far too many hits. He is fooling nobody, and while the Yanks have a 5.5-game lead and some leeway, they shouldn’t be trotting out a five-run handicap every five days.

During the post-game show, Joe Girardi seemed more than willing to commit to Mitre going forward. Joe’s reason? Outside of his own error, Mitre would have tossed a great game. That’s revisionist analysis if I ever I heard it. Mitre still give up the hard-hit balls later in the inning that plated the unearned runs. He still gave up a booming home run that led to the Yanks’ loss.

Right now, the Yankees have a few better options idling away in the bullpen. Aceves could get another shot. Phil Hughes is throwing one inning or less every few days out of the bullpen. Chad Gaudin hasn’t done anything since arriving in the Bronx, and even Russ Ortiz and the recently-DFA’d Josh Towers could be at least as good — or as bad — as Sergio Mitre.

We praised the Yanks for the strong bench and bullpen yesterday afternoon. As long as Sergio Mitre continues to pitch every five days and as long as better pitches sit in the pen, the same cannot be said of the back end of the Yankees’ rotation. It’s time to cut ties with Mitre. His presence gave the Yanks some depth, but the results just aren’t there.

Yanks start strong but can't fend off Jays
Eric Hinske 'having a great time being a Yankee'
  • http://Youcan'tincreaseyourrange TLVP

    But we don’t only need a 5th strater but we also need someone to spot a few starts for Joba so I think Mitre will hang around for a while longer and get more starts but maybe not the next one up

  • jsbrendog

    awesome. this means he will go like 6 or 7 shutout next time. IT’S THE ANTI RAB CURSE!11!!1!!1

  • jsbrendog

    you know who I (honestly and seriously) think would be a better 5th starter option than mitre?

    Sidney Ponson.

    THAT JUST HAPPENED.

    Move Gaudin into the 5 hole see how he does but cut mitre and bring in snacks pontoon and he can be the 5 guy or spot start for joba. Come on, Ponson could totally handle seattle/kansas city and some other teams.

    • Russell NY

      He has a 7.36 ERA in Kansas City. No thanks lol

    • Bo

      I hope the Ponson thing is a joke but I doubt it.

  • Tony

    I’m loving this new “Let guys rehab in the MLB rotation” thing. Quite innovative.

  • http://bronxbaseballdaily.com Matt ACTY/BBD

    Matt says: I’m done with Sergio.

    • jsbrendog

      does he treat you like a rag doll?

      • Jorge Steinbrenner

        best reply ever

  • Klemy

    I’m praying to Mo that they don’t let Mitre start anymore.

    Watching him pitch is painful. We have Aceves and Gaudin who can’t be any worse then what he’s doing currently. Move him to the bullpen for now if they don’t want to release him, but please don’t let him start another game.

  • Chris

    Mitre is less than 13 months removed from TJ surgery. It’s possible that he won’t improve, but it’s far to early to release him. If he has options, then sending him to AAA is a possibility. If not, I don’t think it’s the end of the world to let him get a few more starts.

    • http://Youcan'tincreaseyourrange TLVP

      +1

    • http://bronxbaseballdaily.com Matt ACTY/BBD

      I’d be more inclined to agree with this if there weren’t other guys that could be given a shot. I’d much rather run Ace out there or give Gaudin a shot. The best option, however, is still stuck as a set-up man. If it was between Mitre and, say…Igawa, then, yes, I’d prefer Mitre. However, there are other options that should be tried at this point.

      • Chris

        I wouldn’t be against Gaudin or Aceves, but we need to be realistic about how much of an improvement they would be.

        Mitre ERA as a starter: 7.04
        Gaudin ERA as a starter: 5.23 (in the NL west)
        Aceves ERA as a starter: 8.10 (in 1 start)
        Hughes ERA as a starter: 5.45

        I believe Hughes and Aceves would be upgrades over Mitre, but I’m not so sure about Gaudin. No matter who we run out there, you’re not talking about a great pitcher, and the games we’ll win are the ones where the offense goes nuts.

        • http://bronxbaseballdaily.com Matt ACTY/BBD

          Sure, Gaudin over Mitre probably isn’t much of an upgrade. However, it’s worth taking a shot considering how poorly Mitre has pitched to this point.

          • Klemy

            That’s exactly my point and I’d bet on Aceves if he were given the amount of time that Mitre has had.

    • http://www.twitter.com/shaked RichYF

      I don’t really want him starting again, but I also don’t want him off the team for the same reasons you mentioned. He’s what, 28 years old? When his sinker sinks, he’s actually a decent looking pitcher. When it doesn’t, well ask Wang about that. I’m not ready to give up on the guy, but I am not sure what the Yanks can do other than leave him on the roster until September.

      As an aside, I’d really like to know what Gaudin’s role on this team is other than taking Melancon’s spot next to Harkey on the bench.

      • http://bronxbaseballdaily.com Matt ACTY/BBD

        But the thing is, he doesn’t get his sinker to sink with any sort of regularity. Plus, his secondary pitches don’t seem good enough to keep hitters off balance, a la vintage Wang, so guys sit on it; thus, when Mitre gets hit, which is very often, he gets hit very hard.

        • Chris

          He’s 13 months removed from TJ surgery – struggling with his stuff is not surprising.

          • http://bronxbaseballdaily.com Matt ACTY/BBD

            Which is fair enough, but he should be working those kinks out in Scranton, not the Bronx. I never thought that I’d ever say this ever in the history of forever but…Josh Towers might be a better option for the Yankees. Wow. I cannot believe I just said that.

            • http://www.twitter.com/shaked RichYF

              Seriously, you kiss your mother with that mouth?! Do not speak of Josh Towers ever again. Ever.

              (But you’re right)

              Problem with Mitre is he has to clear waivers AND accept a minor league deal to go back to Scranton this year. That’s POOMA but I’m pretty confident it’s valid. Mike, can you confirm/deny? Does Mitre need to take a minor league deal if he clears waivers or can he stay on his current deal?

              • http://bronxbaseballdaily.com Matt ACTY/BBD

                Haha, this had me rolling. Well played, Rich. Well played.

        • http://www.twitter.com/shaked RichYF

          He’s not fully recovered from TJ surgery. An excuse? Yes, but a good one. His secondary pitches are lacking, that’s for certain. But Wang had terrible secondary pitches his first year in the league too and he actually managed to do quite fine.

          I’m not saying I want Mitre in the rotation any more this year. Definitely not. But he’s signed through next year and it’d be an absolute shame to just dump him now and let him pick up somewhere else and become a decent 4/5 guy (which, by the way, the Yanks will need next year).

          He’s shown flashes, you have to give him that. He’s inconsistent. But with Wang and Pettitte having uncertain futures and Hughes not logging enough innings this year, the Yanks will have a 5th starter problem next year too.

          • Klemy

            That’s fine, I don’t want to see him released outright either, but I’d like to see our other options have a shot starting to see if there is an improvement, even a quality start to be had. If Mitre can’t be sent to AAA, then work him from the bullpen, but forcing his work through starts…ehhh.

            I guess as long as our other pitchers are running hot, it’s not awful to have a bad start every 5. It’s something we can afford given the division lead right now.

            • http://www.twitter.com/shaked RichYF

              Roster flexibility is going to be the biggest issue. If Mitre is taking up a spot on the 25 man, the Yanks are really limited in what they can do. Assuming they want to try out a Josh Towers or Igawa :shudder: or Hirsh, they’re going to have to DFA someone on the 40 man and then send Robertson or Pena down.

              It’s really just a big pain in the ass. If Aceves or Gaudin can handle starting, Mitre can be the new, incredibly expensive Brett Tomko. Yay!

          • http://bronxbaseballdaily.com Matt ACTY/BBD

            But Wang had terrible secondary pitches his first year in the league too and he actually managed to do quite fine.

            Which shows the merging of two things: a decent amount of luck and the fact that Wang’s sinker, when right, is that much better than Mitre’s.

  • JeffG

    Mitre is a turd.

    • http://Youcan'tincreaseyourrange TLVP

      Pretty harsh statement – he might be a bad pitcher but if that makes him a turd, then what are you?

      People who try and fail are not bad people, people who take on a task and then are too lazy to do a good job? That is more questionable

      • Say Hey Willie

        So what you are saying is:

        Mitre = Not Turd

        Pavano = Turd

        • Klemy

          …and boom goes the dynamite. +1

        • http://Youcan'tincreaseyourrange TLVP

          correct

        • Russell NY

          Isn’t an idiot defined as someone who does the same thing over and over and expects different results?

          • icedtea

            that would be crazy..not idiot

      • JeffG

        Wow – you are taking it way too seriously. Is Mitre related to you?

        • V

          I’m not allowed to call you names because it’s against the guidelines, but yeah, whatever Mitre is, you’re two levels of excrement worse.

          • Charlie

            why? He was taking it way too seriously. Why would it offend you to say that Mitre is a turd?

          • Klemy

            Well, calling him names back really doesn’t further your point.

            • V

              What is my point? That Mitre is not “a turd”?

              • Klemy

                Exactly. What is your point? You just insulted him. I should’ve been more clear.

          • JeffG

            I can’t belive the over-reaction but that’s ok. Thank God for those guidlines… I was worried that you would call me a name.

            Mitre isn’t a very good pitcher and should be off of the team. Does that work better? I was just trying to conserve words. You have ruined that.

            • jsbrendog

              THIS IS WHY WE CAN’T HAVE NICE THINGS!11!!1!!1!1

            • V

              I guess you’re in the ‘Give Kei Igawa a chance, he can’t be THAT bad’ camp.

        • http://Youcan'tincreaseyourrange TLVP

          I don’t know – i just feel that someone who is doing their best to help their team shouldn’t suffer personal abuse

          I’m completely fine with criticism but i think “Mitre is a turd” goes beyond saying he’s a bad baseball player

      • thebusiness

        Failing at anything makes you a loser for even trying.

  • Ghost of Scott Brosius

    Would it be totally crazy to let gaudin have his next start, and if he’s worse than mitre, just go back to sergio? They’re both on the roster anyway, they could simply switch roles for a bit. I agree that Mitre could probably take a few more starts, but maybe we should check first if we have something better?

  • Jorge Steinbrenner

    I think Aceves went four last night for a reason. He gets the nod on Saturday. And he should.

    • Ghost of Scott Brosius

      +1

    • Klemy

      I pray you are right.

      • King of Fruitless Hypotheticals

        …so if the mexigangster starts, you need to pray for, you know, world peace and stuff.

        • Klemy

          I will and do already!

  • Say Hey Willie

    What enraged me the most about watching Mitre last night was the way Phil Hughes was used in the Boston series. He pitched 0.2 innings, faced two batters, and threw 9 pitches in four games. Then we get Sergio in the starting rotation. I wonder how Cashman explains to Mo that the Yankees are likely to lose every five days?

    • zack

      Further proof, as if we need more, of the value of starters over relievers. The idea that the Yanks NEED Hughes in the pen and/or can’t win without him was on full display in the Sox series and the benefit of keeping Ace in the BP and starting Hughes was on display yesterday. They use Aceves the way they SHOULD use Hughes, for multiple innings. They won’t do that with Phil now that he is “the 8th inning guy,” but wouldnt’ it make more sense to have Hughes in the rotation, and Ace logging the 7th AND 8th innings, combined with Coke/Robertson/Bruney/Melancon/whomever?

      Eh, whatever, obviously not going to happen. Clearly having Hughes pitch a few innings here and there is more important than maximizing his value…

      • Klemy

        That’s what rubs me wrong about Hughes in the BP. They say he’s so valuable there and then he’s used that much against the Sox? Come on…

    • King of Fruitless Hypotheticals

      I wonder how Cashman explains to Mo that the Yankees are likely to lose every five days?

      dude, that’s crazy talk…wtf makes you think $man is allowed to talk to Mo?

  • Charlie

    Thank you, I completely agree with everything in this post. Girardi never has good explanations for the stupid decisions he makes. Since we know hughes is stuck in the bullpen, I’d like to see Gaudin start next time out. I’m a little worried about Aceves starting and how his spot start might have hurt his shoulder. I hope I never see Sergio Mitre’s face again, though i’m not sure that’ll happen

  • Mac

    I’m not at the point where I’m going to worry about Mitre – although if the Yanks want to swap him and Gaudin right now that would be fine.

    Mitre is odd, he’s comming off TJ surgery and his stuff looks good in bursts – I’d like to see what he looks like in the Spring – if his stuff gets sharper.

    Mitre doesn’t make that error, its a Yankee win.

    If the Yanks only lose 1 out of every 5 days, Cashman has no explanations to make.

    • Charlie

      Mitre doesn’t suck, its a Yankee win. And you can’t expect them to win 4 out of every 5. Why handicap yourself when there are options that give you a better chance to win?

      • Tony

        No, actually he does suck. This is quite obvious to anyone that has seen him pitch this year. In fact, he has always sucked.

        • Charlie

          read the statement again. I know he sucks. i was saying if he didn’t suck, the yankees would have won. you can’t just read one sentence out of context and expect to understand what i’m saying.

    • thebusiness

      “If the Yanks only lose 1 out of every 5 days, Cashman has no explanations to make.”

      Right, because the other 4 starters win 100% of the time.

  • V

    Ah, Yankee fans, overreaction. Glad I’m used to it at his point.

    28 year old a year away from TJS vs. a 42 year old. Hmm, yeah, perfectly comparable.

    I think Mitre should still be rehabbing in the minors, not pitching for the New York Yankees in the majors, but I don’t think releasing him is a good idea. Heck, he looked alright for a few innings last night before the tires came off. Move him to the bullpen?

    • Mac

      I was thinking pen as well for Mitre, I actually like his stuff, but he’s so erratic, strikes out the first two and then gives up back to back hits – one minute he looks dominant, the next he’s missing the zone and having to put one over the plate.

      Again, he’d be a good guy to invite to ST next year – as a 6th/7th starter.

      • Charlie

        Let’s not worry about 2010 ST. The yankees are trying to make the playoffs now, and the best thing for them to do with mitre is to get him off the team

        • V

          Oh, yes, let’s DFA everyone who won’t help us win RIGHT NOW, so next year we can fill in holes with the Cody Ransoms and Sidney Ponsons of the world.

          Let us all know when you get a GM job, so we can watch you work.

          • Tony

            The absolute best case scenario for Sergio Mitre is long man out of the bullpen. I’m not prepared to give away games every 5th day for the sake of preserving a 19 year old 12th pitcher in 2010.

            • Tony

              29 year old*

      • billbybob

        The reason he struck out the first two and then gave up back to back hits is this; the first two batters were right-handed, the next two were lefties. Mitre gets owned by left-handed batters.

    • Charlie

      Nah, I’d DFA him. And I think he will be on Saturday, or at least by the start after that. He wouldn’t be much better in the bullpen. The guy was never that good befor TJS anyway. He’s just really hittable and is unable to consistently keep his sinker away from the middle of the plate. That’s a bad combination. Its not an overreaction, this is a team in a pennant race. Mitre has to go

      • V

        For the ONE HUNDRED MILLIONTH F-ING TIME:

        Pre-Injury 2007, he put up half a season of a 2.8 ERA.

        Boom, the ligament gets injured, he sucks for 10 starts, gets relegated to the minors, where he sucks, and eventually they figure out he needs surgery.

        • Tony

          Let’s count a stretch of eight starts to years ago over everything else he has ever done.

          • Tony

            2*

            • Mike Pop

              Why can’t we?

              We do when we look at other pitchers in our organization that we think are improving?

              He has decent stuff, I think he could make it as a 5th starter in the AL. Why DFA him? The dude’s been out of the game for a year and a half.

              He’s 28, it just sounds like a stupid idea to me. If he gets pwned by LH, then put him in the pen for a while when you switch him and Gaudin. Then when Gaudin bombs his first start, people will call for Mitre again.

              Just seems silly, those 2 are the guys I want in the 5th spot. Not Aceves.

              • thebusiness

                Why DFA him? He has a 5.6 career era and you can find forty starters like him in the off season.

        • Ed

          Perhaps he’s only capable of pitching well if he alters his mechanics into a way that leads to injuries.

        • Charlie

          wow, you said that one hundred million times? plenty of bad pitchers can have good stretches, too. half a season is not a good enough sample size of success

    • zack

      Um, how is it an overreaction? He’s done nothing but stink since being called up. He has NO track record of ever being good. None. He wasn’t good with the Cubs. He wasn’t good with Florida, aside from two months in 2007.

      At least Smoltz has a long history of being very very good. Mitre? Well, he isn’t Igawa I guess…

      • Mac

        I think a live arm and a guy who is under 30 has some value – especially if he’s not making a ton.

        If the Yanks want to give Gaudin and possibly keep finding guys through waivers or maybe signing a IFA – that’s great.

        Mitre isn’t worth getting too upset about YET.

        • Tony

          He has value to whom? He has a 7 ERA. You think the Red Sox are going to jump on it?

          • jsbrendog

            yes.

            he is 28 and only 13 months removed from tjs.

            he has value because a lot of people recoverin from tommy john take ALOT longer to not only heal but to regain their feel for pitching. He has value IMO until he is 30 at this rate. If, after a full yr of such suckitude next yr he hasnt improved much, then he has no value.

            does he have as much value this year as he will mroe than likely have next year? probably not. but he does indeed have value and SOMEONE will pick him up.

        • zack

          Sure, some value. You could say that about a lot of players though. But if it looks like a duck, quacks like a duck etc…The simple fact is that Mitre has never shown much of an ability to get hitters out, and that is unlikely to change this season or next. If they could get him back the minors without losing him, great. If someone else claims him, meh, no big loss. Gaudin is basically the same thing, except probably a bit better.

          Potential 6/7 starters who kind of suck are a dime a dozen, no matter their age…

          • Mac

            You guys need to chill – I get your point, all I’m saying is the guy actually has some velocity and movement on his pitches and he K’s guys.

            Yanks lost 5-4 last night – he didn’t get shelled like Smoltz and his stuff is better and he’s 28 not 42.

            Lets hope Gaudin gets the next start.

            • Tony

              Mitre does not K guys. Your K/9 needs to be over 4.50 to be seen as someone who “Ks guys.” He throws sloppy “sinkers” that are actually grooved 92 mph fastballs 60% of the time. Whenever teams start swinging the bat against him the liner party begins. When he’s lucky he gets scorched groundballs that happen to go to a player.

              Maybe it’s a thing where people are still missing Wang and have some crazy idea that Mitre will magically becomes his replacement because they both throw sinkers. There’s a key point being missed…

              Wang was good, Mitre isn’t.

              • jsbrendog

                Mitre does not K guys. Your K/9 needs to be over 4.50 to be seen as someone who “Ks guys.”

                Sergio Mitre k/9:

                2004 – 6.4
                2005 – 5.5
                2006 – 6.8
                2007 (tommy john year) – 4.8
                2009 – 5.9

                Tony = Fail

                • Tony

                  I’ve been looking at his ESPN page, which seems to be… partially updated? 5.9 doesn’t qualify for “He Ks guys” either.

                • jsbrendog

                  your comment:

                  Your K/9 needs to be over 4.50 to be seen as someone who “Ks guys.”

                  so now youre changing your tune after being proven wrong?

                • Tony

                  I thought his K/9 was 4.5, thus the statement. That did not imply that 4.6 qualifies as a strikeout pitcher.

                • Ed

                  That did not imply that 4.6 qualifies as a strikeout pitcher.

                  Actually, it did.

                  I think you’re just trying to say that he doesn’t strike out anywhere near enough guys, but you went about it really awkwardly.

    • Klemy

      How is everyone overreacting? I would say that most people here are just requesting that he me removed from the rotation and put in the BP. Not very many people are asking he be released. That is the essence of RAB…sensible people discussing the topic.

    • Bo

      A 62 yr old Smoltz is better than Mitre.

  • Tony

    I would REALLY like an explanation for all these Mitre loyalists. It’s mind-boggling. He has always sucked and he sucks now. Maybe you guys are Gameday watchers, but he has never actually looked good. Not even for a second. Toronto seemed to be pissed off (Rios) when that game started and was watching his grooved fastballs/”sinkers” for strike three until about the fourth inning. The guy is TERRIBLE.

    • Mac

      I can’t speak for anyone else – as to the Mitre loyalists, but in the interest of full disclosure, I am his agent and he owes me a lot of $.

      I’m kidding of course.

      • Arman Tamzarian

        Keep in mind that Mitre is realistically probably our 8/9 starter. After Wang (injured), Hughes (who’s not being switched back this season), Kennedy (injured), and Aceves (who’s pretty valuable in the bullpen). It’s what you get from your 8/9 starter.

        • Mac

          Yep, no arguement – he’s an “in case of emergency” guy.

        • Klemy

          “and Aceves (who’s pretty valuable in the bullpen)”

          See? That comment will start a discussion (again) about a starter being more important than a bullpen arm.

          We have other options for starters, that’s the only point most people are pushing IMO.

          • http://www.riveraveblues.com Benjamin Kabak

            Value in rotation > Value in the bullpen.

            ‘Nuff said.

            • Klemy

              Exactly.

            • Chris

              Not necessarily. Looking at the actual value, a reliever with an ERA under 3 (like Aceves) is about as valuable as a 4th starter.

              • Ed

                That’s probably about right if the reliever gets a workload like Aceves has been getting. For a typical reliever’s workload, it’s still too small of a workload for the value to even out.

            • http://Youcan'tincreaseyourrange TLVP

              Regular season yes, post season not true if you are the no 5 starter.

              Not saying that is the reason management is keeping Aceves and Hughes in the penn, but if we reach the post season Hughes and Aceves in the penn are worth more than as back up starters assuming we’ve still got Joba as a starter

              There is a lot of ifs in such reasoning but hopefully in a couple of weeks there will be fewer of them

          • Arman Tamzarian

            No, the argument is 4 valuable starters with a solid bull pen will produce a pretty good record. Pulling from one to accommodate the other will only serve to level out both. 5 runs, it’s what you get from a guy who’s so far down the tree. Be glad he’s not going 2 and giving up 8, there just isn’t many solutions without giving up a lot.

        • mike HC

          Except as you wrote, we have healthy starters who are better than him not starting by choice. We wouldn’t rather start Aceves, even though we used him for four innings last night anyway. None of this is making sense. It is almost like Cashman wants to stick with Mitre and Girardi is forced to support him, but Girardi’s actions say otherwise. We have a phenom starting pitcher who the Yanks have been talking up for years, and when push comes to shove, with a rotation spot open, they keep him in the pen. It is mind boggling really

  • kevin

    He had a decent amount of K’s last night and seems to do well in short bursts. I think that the pen would just be a better fit for him now and switch with gaudin,also if he needs to make a spot start he can.

    • jsbrendog

      problem is apparently neither one of them can get lefties out. TEACH THEM THE CUTTER MO!!!

    • Mac

      The thing we all should hope for is that the Yanks play well enough to make the 5th starter a non-issue. Doesn’t mean the Yanks shouldn’t try to upgrade with some guys they already have or what they might be able to get before Aug 31st.

      I watched Mitre pitch, I like his stuff – its a bit puzzling how inconsistent he can be batter to batter – but there are bunches of guys like that – look at Ollie Perez – at least Mitre makes a pro rated 1.25 mil in the bigs.

    • Tony

      Mitre got 3 Ks on guys watching fastballs down the middle. For the love of Mo do not try to tell us Mitre has “good stuff” now.

      • mike HC

        He does have good stuff. He just has zero control over where it goes.

        • Tony

          There is no factual basis for that statement.

          • mike HC

            He throws upper 80’s to low 90’s with nasty downward movement. If you don’t think that is Major League stuff, I’m really not sure what you consider “facts.” That pitch gets batter out when placed correctly. It is the fact that he is all over and in the strike zone that he gets crushed.

            • Tony

              You’d think a guy with “nasty” stuff wouldn’t have a 2+ WHIP right now, a career .300+ BAA, or a career 5.48 ERA. That’s just me.

              • Chris

                He’s 13 months removed from TJ surgery. Most guys are barely throwing from flat ground at this point.

              • mike HC

                I’m not really sure how you turned me into a Mitre supporter, because I want him out of the rotation. I just think that his sinker can get Major League hitters out in some capacity if he can consistantly locate it. He has not been able to consistantly locate it, so he has gotten hit hard. I did not say he has “nasty stuff,” but the pitch does have “nasty” movement to it. The problem is that that nasty movement moves the pitch right down Broadway

              • jsbrendog

                he is only 13 months removed from tjs. what about that dont you understand? he may not be good. but it takes most ppl a lot longer to get a feel back for pitching after such a surgery. calm yourself.

                and hsi whip is not 2+. it is 1.9

                /nitpick

              • Tony

                Sergio Mitre sucked before TJ. He sucks now. He will suck next season. There will never be a time when he does not suck.

                • http://www.twitter.com/wahbjo01 Jordan

                  So Josh Towers, Chad Gaudin, Russ Ortiz don’t qualify as having sucked for the better parts of their careers?

                • Tony

                  More guys that have always been better than Sergio Mitre.

        • Mac

          That’s how I see it as well – 5 of his 6 K’s came in the first two innings – 3 swinging, 2 looking.

          I’m glad we are to the point that we are upset over an emergency starter.

          Yanks have trotted out alot worse the last several years. Not saying they should keep him in the rotation or even on the team – just I saw why they gave him a shot and he might be worth looking at again next year.

          • Tony

            Yanks have trotted out alot worse the last several years.

            Again. He has a SEVEN POINT FIVE ERA. The Yankees have not trotted out alot worse the last several years. That’s damn near impossible to do.

            • Mac

              Did you see what Wang gave us this year?

              • Tony

                So your standard is now 2009 Chien-Ming Wang? That’s pathetic.

                Darrell Rasner was better. Sidney Ponson was better. Carl Pavano was better. Dan Giese was better. Matt DeSalvo was better. Tyler Clippard was better.

                • King of Fruitless Hypotheticals

                  any statement that has ‘carl pavano was better’ is automatically suspect!

            • Chris

              Sergio Mitre ERA in 2009: 7.04

              Wang ERA in 2009: 9.64
              IPK ERA in 2008: 8.17
              Phil Hughes ERA in 2008: 6.62
              Igawa ERA in 2008: 13.5
              Karstens ERA in 2007: 11.05
              Chase Wright ERA in 2007: 7.20
              Chacon ERA in 2006: 7.00
              Small ERA in 2006: 8.46
              Ponson ERA in 2006: 10.47

              • jsbrendog

                +one milliooooon dollars…

                • Mike Pop

                  Pwnd.

      • V

        Down the middle? Huh? What strike zone are YOU looking at?

    • Bo

      Just what we need. mitre coming out of the pen to get lit up. The first 4 innings arent enough for some people.

  • mike HC

    It is almost unbelievable that Hughes did not get the starting nod right after Wang went out. Why even give Mitre the first shot? Letting Wang work things out in the rotation, while Hughes sits in the pen playing catch with himself is one thing. Just putting scrubs into the fifth starter role and crossing your fingers, while Hughes sits in the pen and plays catch with himself, is a whole other story. This is really not starting to make any sense to me at all.

    • VO

      +1 It makes no sense to me either. There pro ball players. Why wont anyone play catch with him?

      • King of Fruitless Hypotheticals

        nobody wants to hang out with the Home Run Gnome.

        +a lot for the editor who inserted ‘catch’ into Mike HC’s comment…

        • mike HC

          hahah

        • Charlie

          IETC, and vo’s one above it too

  • kevin

    ya but Hughes is now for this season one of the most dominate 8th inning guys in the league. Its not like he comes in for blowouts, he is there in high stress situations. Ever since he got to the bullpen the yanks have been playing a lot better.

    Although I do hope next year he is back in the rotation.

    • mike HC

      Yes, Hughes is an excellent reliever. And I feel like this argument has been made for so long that is pointless to even go on, but so would CC, AJ, Joba … They would all make excellent relievers. Joba is really our 5th starter during the regular season. You gotta rest him as much as possible. Skip as many starts as possible. Mitre’s position in the rotation should be jsut as important as CC, AJ and Pettitte’s. It is foolish to keep Hughes in the pen for the regular season. It is really that simple. When playoff time comes around, Hughes will be just fine in the bullpen. He went from starter to dominant bullpen guy in the flash of an eye. He does not need to adjust.

    • Klemy

      Actually, through this past 5 or 6 days, it’s not like he comes in at all. lol

    • http://bronxbaseballdaily.com Matt ACTY/BBD

      he is there in high stress situations

      This, IMO, is another myth of the bullpen. How come a one run game in the 8th is a high pressure situation but a one run game in the 5th isn’t? The game is much more in flux during the earlier situation.

  • Doug

    The 5th starters isn’t expected to do much. Give me 5 or 6 innings and keep them under 4 runs and I’m happy.

    I say give Gaudin a shot at it. Why did we get him? Or bring up Josh Towers who used to start for Toronto

    • Klemy

      The 5th starters isn’t expected to do much. Give me 5 or 6 innings and keep them under 4 runs and I’m happy.

      I’d be happy with that IF he did it.

      • Chris

        Mitre’s average start: 5.6IP and 4.2R (23IP and 21R in 5 starts).

        So he is doing that, but you’re not happy.

        • 27 this year

          4.6 IP, check your math and thus he isn’t doing the job.

          • Chris

            me + math = fail

            Still… he’s not that bad.

            • Klemy

              Would you perceive what Smoltz did this year as “not that bad?”

              Smoltz’s ERA for his 8 games is just over 1 higher then Mitre’s, pitching 1/3 of an inning longer. He averaged 5.0 innings pitched over 8 starts with a better WHIP, though still awful (Mitre 1.913 vs Smoltz 1.70). So, comparing the two, I would say they have been fairly similar, no?

              I agree that we can have different opinions on what is an bad performance and that’s fine, but since I personally perceive Smoltz as bad, I’d have to think the same for Mitre.

              • Chris

                One difference is that Smoltz is 42 and coming off shoulder surgery. Mitre is 28 and coming off of Tommy John surgery. The chances that Smoltz recovers his stuff before age gets the better of him are much less than for Mitre.

                The only way for Mitre to get better is to pitch. He was having success at AAA, so it wasn’t a stretch to call him up. Now (I believe) they can’t send him back. Letting him take his lumps as the 5th starter could pay off in the long run because he could help fill a rotation spot next year. The cost of letting him start for the rest of the season is only about 1-2 wins (assuming he doesn’t improve). I think that’s worth it.

                Of course I want him to pitch better, but I taking a rational look at the situation I don’t think running him out there is such a terrible thing.

                (The other difference between Mitre and Smoltz is that the Red Sox have question marks at 3 of their rotation spots, whereas the Yankees are only questionable at 1. You can afford to struggle once every 5 days, but not 3 times every 5 days. Also, the Yankees have a better offense and should be able to cover up some of the bad pitching.)

                • Klemy

                  I wouldn’t argue that, I’m not even really here to argue with you at all.

                  All I’m doing is supporting my first statement that I wasn’t happy with his output and that it wasn’t meeting what the prior person said we should expect from a 5th starter. Your interjection that he was meeting my expectations without me realizing it is what prompted the back and forth posts.

                  Smoltz was just a stat to show that Sergio’s current 5 starts aren’t good. I wasn’t trying to draw a parallel to being an equal situation between teams. Obviously, Mitre has the possibility of getting a little better or at least more of a chance then Smoltz does.

        • Klemy

          Mitre’s average start: 5.6IP and 4.2R (23IP and 21R in 5 starts).

          So he is doing that, but you’re not happy.

          No. He’s not quite hitting it. Your numbers are wrong.

          An ERA of 7.04, after 5 starts:

          1 – 5.2 innings
          2 – 5.0 innings
          3 – 3.0 Innings
          4 – 4.1 innings
          5 – 5.0 innings

          That’s about 4.6 innings average, not 5.6 innings; you’re off by an inning. 4.6 innings is not equal to “5 or 6”, it’s less.

          And to be absolutely clear, what I expect of him is something closer to a quality start, which is nowhere near.

  • fscott19

    what about swinging a trade for harang? he just cleared

    • Klemy

      He’s averaged 215+ innings for the last 4 years, at a 4.02 ERA…though down last year and this year. I’d say it depends completely upon the cost, but a better option then we currently send out every 5th day. Doubt it happens.

      • Mike Pop

        Too much money, paid like a 1-2.

        • Klemy

          True. I didn’t bother looking it up, but I remember someone mentioning before the trade deadline that he contract wasn’t very friendly.

    • Dela G

      aaron harang = big pile of stinking garbage

      • Bo

        They’re going to nickel n dime now when they got all their chips pushed to the middle?

  • E-ROC

    I don’t think Sergio Mitre should pitch on Saturday. I would designate him for assignment because no one will claim on waivers, and hope he accepts a trip to Scranton, unless he has options. Mitre is striking out enough batters, somewhat. It just that his sinker is up much too often.

    Chad Gaudin can’t get lefties out so staying in the bullpen would be his best option. I’m all for Aceves pitching on Saturday, or someone else.

  • Andrew M.

    I would rather have Cody Ransom start at 3rd base and hit cleanup every day than have Mitre make another start for the Yankees.

  • Bo

    it’s ridiculous a trade wasnt made for a competent back end starter especially since they knew they had to skip Joba every other week. To have faith in guys like Mitre and Igawa is laughable.

    • adeel

      No, they wanted a back end starter. Problem was that every GM out there wanted Austin Jackson for the back end starter. Would have given up Jackson for Washburn?

  • Mike C.

    The Yankees are 5.5 games up. Would it kill all of you to have just a little patience with Mitre? The guy had tommy john surgery just last year and into form. He showed great stuff early on last night. If it weren’t for the missed double play he may have only surrendured a couple of solo shots. If you guys were expecting a 4th straight 7 scoreless inning performance you need to get real and get a clue as well. The Yankees have won 3 of his 5 starts and I have a good feeling you’ll all be feeling stupid 3 starts from now.

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  • adeel

    I don’t care what happens to Mitre, have Gaudin take his spot.. What I would not like is for Aceves to start. We tried that already. You destroy the bullpen to get a 5th starter (and yes, taking Aceves out of the bullpen does destroy it).

    Starters are always better than relievers, but I feel that Aceves is a much better reliever than a starter. If anything, his recent tired arm and sore back make me think he needs to be used EVEN LESS if you want him to be available in October.

  • Mike C.

    Plus, where were all of you when joba was only going 5 innings for the yankees? For the entire first half of the season joba was bailed out by the Yankee offense.

    • adeel

      +100000000

      Look at bright side, At least Mitre is doing a better job for us than Wang did this year.

      • http://www.riveraveblues.com Benjamin Kabak

        There’s so much wrong with both of these comments. The only five-start stretch of Joba’s in which he averaged only 5.0 innings per start came because he threw 0.2 innings and left one start with a leg injury. He also never had an ERA anywhere near Mitre’s 7.00 mark. That’s a terrible comparison.

        Meanwhile, that Wang comment is laughable. I take it you’re not being serious?

        • adeel

          Noone is saying that Mitre is anywhere near Joba, but someone that is coming off tj sx needs some time to get back to form; it’s safe to say that we haven’t seen mitre at his full ptoential yet. The fact that he has to do this as a fifth starter on the yankees is not fair to him or the fans; as what should be a quiet recouperating process is thrown into the limelight.

          Pitching is a very delicate thing, and after so many years we finally have a decent bullpen; I would rather continue the mitre experiment than break something that we already fixed.

          The Wang comment was laughable.. I was just saying Mitre’s starts weren’t as bad as wang’s in the beginning of the year. In no way did I mean to imply that Mitre has 50% of wang’s ability or 10% of his history.

  • ShuutoHeat

    Hell no we won’t go, we dont want any Sergio!

    Okay seriously, what the fudgepacker is Gaudin doing?

    We need to bring Igawa up and have him on hand to eat innings. We pay this guy a few mil so that he can OWN the triple A? Have him clean up or give starters some rest when they’ve done their 5 inning and the offense is on fire. Make him pitch till his arm falls off, take a stapler…staple his arm back and make him pitch some more. I’m dead serious about this Igawa business.

    • jsbrendog

      you’ve just lost all your credibility.

  • Barry

    Gaudin’s high ERA mostly earned in a very pitcher friendly ballpark (Petco in San Diego). It’s a little scary to think of him pitching here in the Bronx.

    • A.D.

      Yeah but he has a good FIP & K rate, slightly high BABIP, and a decent ground ball rate. So one would guess that he sucks less then he does.

      Actually Gaudin is way better on the road this year than at home…go figure.

      • A.D.

        200 pts of OPS better

  • Ray

    Mitre hasn’t shown anything, like they said, “he’s not fooling anyone”! Aceves has looked good to great lately and if they stop babying Hughes, he could help out alot more either as a starter or reliever! GO YANKS!!!!!!