Aug
25

More praise for Phil Hughes

By

Dave Allen at FanGraphs is the latest to pen a piece complimentary of Phil Hughes, who has emerged as a bullpen force for the best team in the land. Allen explains how the move to pen has allowed Hughes’ stuff to play, which is exactly what you’d expect to happen. After dealing with this for the last two years, it looks like we might end up having another starter-or-reliever debate on our hands next year. Thankfully, this is not debate to the guys calling the shots.

Categories : Asides
  • sabes

    I’d imagagine so would Ian Kennedy (when healthy,) MCallister, heck even Alan Horne if they were removed from the rotation and put into the pen to only get 3 outs. I really hope this conversation doesn’t linger like with Chamberlain but at lest were treading familiar waters.

    • JMK

      Eh, Hughes’ stuff is much, much better than the three you listed. Sure, they’d all be better under such circumstances, but to think they’d come near replicating Hughes’ performance in the pen is very presumptive. Those guys rely more on control than stuff (at least IPK and Z-Mac). Clearly, though, Hughes belongs in the starting rotation.

      • Lanny

        Those guys arent even in the same league as Hughes.

        • http://twitter.com/tsjc68 tommiesmithjohncarlos a/k/a Ridiculous Upside

          The fact that IPK, McAllister, and Horne are not in the same league as Hughes does not mean that sabes is wrong in his theory that their stuff and effectiveness would improve were they moved to the pen.

          Sabes never said that they were as good as Hughes. In either the rotation or the pen.

          • King of Fruitless Hypotheticals

            TJSC, proud of you for not making that an MLB/AAA/DSL etc joke.

        • JMK

          No one said they were. That has nothing to do with the points made.

  • Tom Zig

    it looks like we might end up having another starter-or-reliever debate on our hands next year.

    Thankfully we already coined a term for those people.

    • JMK

      Idiots? That’s not it, is it? Something with a “b”. Man, I can’t remember!

    • http://twitter.com/tsjc68 tommiesmithjohncarlos a/k/a Ridiculous Upside

      You’re welcome.

  • jsbrendog

    i dont know if i can go through another b-jobber-esque debate. when it all boils down I might have to (however hard) stay away (probably making some posters quite happy :-P)

    • http://bronxbaseballdaily.com Matt ACTY/BBD

      I’m looking at this possible B-Hughes argument in a similar fashion to an Allied soldier in Europe on May 9th, 1945: if I have to go fight in Japan, I’ll do it, but I’d prefer not to. Obviously, this situation is way less dire and won’t require any more atomic bombs but you get the idea.

      /I’m watching Band of Brothers

      • http://twitter.com/tsjc68 tommiesmithjohncarlos a/k/a Ridiculous Upside

        Obviously, this situation is way less dire and won’t require any more atomic bombs…

        I don’t know, nuking these bastards is starting to sound like the smartest plan.

  • Camilo Gerardo – your inception? fuck perception, go with what makes sense

    stretch him out at the facility before winter ball (and b4 ST)???

    • Chris

      There is really no point in having him pitch in fall or winter ball. He won’t get enough innings to increase his innings cap for next year, so why bother increasing his risk of injury?

  • Grandma Karkan

    Hughes=the new Joba. smh

  • Little Bill

    There is no argument. Hughes is a starter and even Mike Francesca knows it. Next year Joba and Hughes will be in the rotation and they will stay there for a very long time.

    • Drew

      I’d like to believe you (the part about francesa), but I don’t. Next year, when Philly goes through natural growing pains and the pen isn’t lock down straight out of the gate, Mikey F will raise hell saying Hughes should be in the pen. “He was untouchable in the pen. He was a phenom.” Joba part deux all over again…

      • Chris

        Whether Francesca believes that Hughes should be a starter or not is pretty irrelevant. He’s going to argue that he should be in the pen because it get’s people riled up and gets listeners to his show.

        • gio

          Thank you for pointing that out. The fact that everyone on this site blasts him for saying it just goes to prove that irrespective of his actualy beliefs, he’s doing his job.

  • Joba or Hughes to the pen

    Hughes ain’t gonna be better.He throws 95-96mph as a reliever but as a starter he throws 92-93.He ain’t gonna be better.I mean as a reliever he needs 40 pitches nearly a inning thats why you don’t see him two days in a row.

    Hughes like Joba is gonna be solid as a starter but he ain’t gonna be better.I rather have Joba in the pen then a starter.Hughes is good but like Joba he hasn’t lived up to the hype.And isn’t a phenom anymore.

    • Drew

      What I’ve gleaned from this glorious write-up is that he “ain’t gonna be better.” Not sure I understand who exactly he won’t be better than but I guess it doesn’t matter. He just ain’t gonna be better.

    • Jose

      What about having both of them in the pen? Rotate them so each one pitches every other day in the 8th. The 8th inning will be unbeatable. We all know that an unbeatable 8th leads to championships.

      • Little Bill

        And eventually Hughes will be the heir apparent to Mo and Joba the heir apparent to Hughes. The last two innings will be locked down for a decade. Mitre and Gaudin should be able to fill the 4th and 5th starter roles just fine.

        • Jose

          I’m already selling World Champion t-shirts for 2017.

      • JMK

        You’re stopping there? Might as well have CC and Burnett rotate the 7th and just have a rotation of IPK, Z-Mac, Nova, Igawa and Gaudin. Mitre can pitch the 6th with Towers.

        (I know you were kidding).

        • JGS

          SERGIO MITRE IS A STAHTING PITCHAH

    • http://twitter.com/tsjc68 tommiesmithjohncarlos a/k/a Ridiculous Upside

      You know what I like most about you, Joba or Hughes to the pen?

      Your consistency.

      Sincerely,
      Theoretical Joe Morgan

      • JMK

        You forgot to say the term “I think” every three words.

    • gio

      Stop. Please, just stop commenting, dude.

      • JMK

        He’s entitled to his opinion. Unfortunately, you telling him not to voice it won’t make any impact.

      • http://twitter.com/tsjc68 tommiesmithjohncarlos a/k/a Ridiculous Upside

        He’s comic relief.

        What’s that? Comic relief needs to be funny? Oh, nevermind then.

  • Macphisto

    Sure am happy today that the Yanks have Phil Hughes, CC Sabathia, Nick Swisher, and Melky instead of Santana.

  • http://twitter.com/tsjc68 tommiesmithjohncarlos a/k/a Ridiculous Upside

    Phil Hughes can speak French. In Russian.

    • JMK

      His blood smells like cologne.

    • UWS

      I hear women hang on to his every word, even the prepositions.

    • Jose

      Joba can count to a million. In letters.

      • JMK

        That’s a good one. Haven’t heard that one. The prepositions line is also a favorite.

        The marketing behind those commercials are so simple, yet so effective.

      • http://twitter.com/tsjc68 tommiesmithjohncarlos a/k/a Ridiculous Upside

        I like that one.

    • Sam

      Phil Hughes hung a curveball once…just to see what it felt like

  • Lanny

    Would it really be so bad if Hughes became a lights out late inning reliever? But you have seen the MO of the front office. They’ll segue him into the rotation. The stints in the pen have done wonders for him and Joba.

    • gio

      Yes, yes it would, because then he’s not a lights out starter.

      • gio

        Or even an above-average starter, which is still more valuable than a lights-out reliever.

    • http://twitter.com/tsjc68 tommiesmithjohncarlos a/k/a Ridiculous Upside

      Would it really be so bad if Hughes became a lights out late inning reliever?

      No, but it would be a massive waste of resources, because he can become a lights-out starter and those are way more important, way harder to find, and way more expensive to buy.

      But you have seen the MO of the front office.

      I have seen it. It’s pretty damn smart, as evidenced by the fact that we’re currently the best team in the league and we’ve been annual World Series contenders for almost two full decades now.

      I’m not sure where you’re going with this.

      They’ll segue him into the rotation.

      As they should, and as every other organization in the history of baseball would do.

      The stints in the pen have done wonders for him and Joba.

      Yes, they have. Again, not sure where you’re going with this.

  • Joba or Hughes to the pen

    People need to understand this ain’t the 60′s.Your rotation doesn’t need to be dominate.Your bullpen does.The Phillies proved that with a 4 era ace in Hamels and a 50 year old Moyer but a locked down pen with Madison and lidge.

    WE have a ace(CC) a number 2 guy(AJ) and a solid middle guy in Joba.Anybody can pitch as #4 and #5 guys.Who cares about Jeter and Jorge there replaceable Mariano isn’t.And he is 39 coming off surgery and is here for one more year.

    But who care’s to the people here anybody can be Mariano.

    • UWS

      OK, now I know you’re just trying to rile people up.

      Jeter and Jorge are replaceable but Mariano isn’t? OK. Field a lineup containing Ramiro Pena and Jose Molina on a regular basis and see how many games Mo gets to save them.

      • JMK

        We always fall for it, too. He must be a troll.

    • JMK

      Can we try again in English? I doubt the content would improve, but it sure would be easier to follow the inane reasoning.

    • The Fallen Phoenix

      No.

    • http://twitter.com/tsjc68 tommiesmithjohncarlos a/k/a Ridiculous Upside

      Batshit insane.

    • JGS

      the Yankees had a pretty excellent bullpen last year.

      If the starters are no good, you could have the greatest bullpen in history and it wouldn’t matter

    • Sam

      “Anybody can pitch as #4 and #5 guys”

      Sure, anyone can pitch out of the 4 and 5 hole, but it would be nice if it was someone who could pitch effectively out of those slots

      • http://twitter.com/tsjc68 tommiesmithjohncarlos a/k/a Ridiculous Upside

        Exactly.

        We’re not keeping Joba and Hughes in the rotation so they can be #4 starters. We’re keeping them in the rotation so they can be aces.

        Our long-term strategy is to have four ace pitchers in CC, AJ, Joba, and Hughes. It’s a good strategy.

    • POCKO

      I have have 5 aces and no bullpen … WEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE

      • POCKO

        *rather have

    • Macphisto

      That is the funny thing about the Pen Lovers. Most think that because a Hughes or Joba does well in the pen that they can be the next Mo. Arguably the greatest closer of all time. Another one just like him. In our midst. Wow. we are lucky.