Rumor du jour: Yanks interested in Lackey

What Went Wrong: Chien-Ming Wang
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We’ll have more on this one as the Hot Stove heats up, but early Yankee word out of the GM Meetings yesterday come to us from Jon Heyman. The Sports Illustrated scribe says the Yankees plan to look at John Lackey as their big free agent acquisition. Reports Heyman, “The Yankees aren’t expected to be as aggressive this winter on the free market as last offseason and they haven’t firmed up all their plans as yet, but one league source said of Lackey, ‘He’s definitely on their radar.’ Word is that the Yankees probably will be willing to repeat A.J. Burnett‘s $82.5 million, five-year contract for Lackey.” The Angels’ ace supposedly wants more than Burnett got. For what it’s worth, Tim Dierkes at MLBTR sees Lackey landing with the Yanks.

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What Went Wrong: Chien-Ming Wang
RAB Live Chat
  • pat

    OOf, I’ll be completely honest I wouldn’t be averse to having big Lack on the team but not for 5 years and more than what Burnett got.

  • http://twitter.com/tsjc68 tommiesmithjohncarlos a/k/a Ridiculous Upside
  • the artist formerly known as (sic)

    No thank you.

    NO. THANK. YOU.

  • jsbrendog

    i am completely against this.

    john lackey will institute death panels!!

    DEATH PANELS PEOPLE!!

    • Tom Zig

      John Lackey will kill your grandparents!

      • JMK aka The Overshare

        I hope so. I’m (already) tired of working to coddle those geriatric babies.

  • mryankee

    About time and I say go for it make big moves. I am all for Lackey any moron who tells you the Yankees are not better off with a rotation of CC-AJ-Lackey-Pettite PHIL-Joba is just not thinking. I hope they make a deal like this you always hvae tobe improving not standing still. Who is the first person to give one of these ” They won this year so they are playing with house money” type posts.

    • CountryClub

      His velocity is down and he’s been hurt the past 2 seasons. not the kind of guy that you want to invest 80 – 100 million in.

      • Mike bk

        i agree. the feeling i have about lackey is kind of like when the yanks let andy walk to houston cause they knew his elbow was going to blow in the next year or two, that’s lackey now.

      • Mister Delaware

        His average FB was the highest in 2009 than any other year of his career. The only warning sign velo wise is that he doesn’t have the spikes now that he did in 2007.

        http://www.fangraphs.com/pitch.....8;pitch=FA

        • CountryClub

          Interesting.

    • the artist formerly known as (sic)

      A six man rotation, eh?

      /crickets chirp

      • http://twitter.com/tsjc68 tommiesmithjohncarlos a/k/a Ridiculous Upside

        BANGWAGON

        • JMK aka The Overshare

          My family died forking the river…

    • Tom Zig

      I have a question…Why did you capitalize Phil? I see people capitalizing random words all the time, usually it’s “AROD”. I don’t get it.

      • JMK aka The Overshare

        His grammar is not sterling, if you’ve noticed. I’d say his his finger momentarily hit CAPSLOCK for a few keystrokes and then—!!!!BOOM!!!!—Hughes is now an uber-pronoun.

    • Doug

      don’t think anyone would argue that he’d improve the rotation in 2010. it’s the cost in terms of years that makes this a very suspect move

    • jsbrendog

      I am all for Lackey any moron who tells you the Yankees are not better off with a rotation of CC-AJ-Lackey-Pettite PHIL-Joba is just not thinking. about long term benefits and team positional/payroll flexibility and actually thinking more then 1 year in advance while realizing he is 30 with injury history, not an ace, and that singing him takes the yankees out of any type of felix, halladay, cliff lee, johnson sweepstakes within the next 2-4 offfseasons and when factoring a raise for jeter and arb raises and swisher’s escalating contract that this is a terrible mvoe that will hamstring you.

      that is one smart moron.

      • mryankee

        Why do you say that? and how do you know that? Do you have the books in front of you? I did not know you were the team accountant. Why dont you tell us exactly how much the Yankees have to spend.

        • jsbrendog

          what you are proposing would send the yankees back to the 80’s version (post 81) you know the one where old fading stars were getting paid too much and the window to win was so narrow they didnt have time for youth to materialize and realize its potential so it was traded for more overpaid aging superstars who were no longer superstars

    • http://twitter.com/tsjc68 tommiesmithjohncarlos a/k/a Ridiculous Upside

      I am all for Lackey any moron who tells you the Yankees are not better off with a rotation of CC-AJ-Lackey-Pettite PHIL-Joba is just not thinking.

      Any moron who doesn’t realize that that is six people for five spots in a rotation is a moron.

      What you just described is an impossible logjam.

      I hope they make a deal like this you always hvae tobe improving not standing still.

      You keep saying this. Saying it over and over again does not make it any less false. It’s false.

      • jsbrendog

        You keep saying this. Saying it over and over again does not make it any less false. It’s false.

        carry on

        • mryankee

          So you dont have to improve? You dont look for ways to improve the team? You dont sign quality players who would make your team better? Then whats the point of free agencey?

          • jsbrendog

            ::facepalm::

            you do not get it nor do rational explanations help your udnerstanding.

            yes you get better. you try to get better without hamstringing the future of your team. Before you sign anyone you look at how it might affect your team AT THE END OF THE CONTRACT as well as before and a 30 yr old guy with elbow injuries the last 2 yrs who never was an ace caliber pitcher anyway and wants 5+ yrs is DUMB! esp with the crop of young pitchers the yankees have and the list of potential free agents within the next 3-5 years.

      • Tom Zig

        Sometimes the best moves are the ones you DON’T make.

    • r.w.g.

      plus lackey will add toughness to our clubhouse and any of these morons telling you that chemistry dosent (sic) matter has no idea what they are talking about. i mean seriously like red sox are getting stronger we have to to or we aren’t going to make the playoffs

      • http://twitter.com/tsjc68 tommiesmithjohncarlos a/k/a Ridiculous Upside

        No, that wasn’t enough spelling, capitalization, and punctuation errors. Try again.

        Try to write it haphazardly fast, as if you have to get the words out of your head before you forget them because you have no short-term memory or higher brain functioning.

        • r.w.g.

          I left out a trade proposal to acquire Adam Dunn so we could turn around and flip him for Pujols. I am really slipping.

      • jsbrendog

        plus ew have to trade fr verlander because he is jut so awesome

        • Tom Zig

          You forgot Sizemore

          • http://twitter.com/tsjc68 tommiesmithjohncarlos a/k/a Ridiculous Upside

            Grady, or Tom?

            • jsbrendog

              tom obv. but only if we can get president palmer/pedro cerrano too to dh.

  • Mike bk

    this is the same thing that happens every year where every big name in the market wants to get themselves tied to the Yanks to raise their price for everyone else.

  • Frank

    Love Lackey and his makeup. Can’t understand why anyone wouldn’t want him. CC-Lackey-AJ- Pettitte is a very nice foursome.

    • Tom Zig

      Not a foursome i’d want to attend

    • Doug

      5 years for starters

    • the artist formerly known as (sic)

      What, exactly, about his makeup do you like? Are you a fan of his tendency to stare down fielders who make errors behind him? Or, like, his mean face?

    • mryankee

      I am with you I dont understand why anyone whould be averse to a quality pitcher like Lackey in the rotation.

    • http://bronxbaseballdaily.com Matt ACTY/BBD

      Arm injuries the last two seasons? Check.
      On the wrong side of thirty? Check.
      Wants a long term, big money deal? Check.

      That’s why I wouldn’t want him. It also pushes the development of one young starter back another year, which the Yankees shouldn’t be doing.

      • Tom Zig

        Sign me up for your newsletter.

      • Frank

        They just signed AJ last year who also had a history of injury. It won’t set back anyone. Pettitte will probably done after next season, assuming he decides to return.

        • Doug

          2 wrongs don’t make a right

          • jsbrendog

            and wyclef never lies

        • http://bronxbaseballdaily.com Matt ACTY/BBD

          Just because they signed Burnett doesn’t mean they should sign Lackey. I wanted them to sign Burnett, but a five year deal for him was probably too much. They could end up paying for that in the end; one iffy signing doesn’t justify another. And, between the two, I’d pick Burnett anyway. His upside, as much upside as a veteran can have, is higher than Lackey’s.

          As for after 2010, a long term deal to Lackey likely hurts the Yankees post-2010 more than it helps them.

    • http://twitter.com/tsjc68 tommiesmithjohncarlos a/k/a Ridiculous Upside

      Love Lackey and his makeup.

      Me too.

      Can’t understand why anyone wouldn’t want him.

      Because we have no room for him in our starting rotation.

      CC-Lackey-AJ- Pettitte is a very nice foursome.

      CC-AJ-Pettitte-Joba-Hughes is a better fivesome, especially from a cost/benefit standpoint.

      • Chris

        Assuming that you save the money by not signing Lackey, what/who are you going to spend it on? If the Yankees just decide to lower their payroll and save the extra money, then that has no benefit for me as a fan.

        • jsbrendog

          andy pettitte, hideki matsui, johnny damon, mike cameron and one of hinske/hairston jr, i go hinske cause we have pena to replace hairston.

          ss jeter
          lf damon
          1b teix
          3b arod
          dh matsui
          c posada
          2b cano
          rf swisher
          cf cameron

          bench:
          pena
          cervelli
          melky
          hairston/hinske (again hinske caus ehe has pop)

          rotation:
          cc
          aj
          pettitte
          joba
          hughes

          with aceves, ipk, hirsh, mitre, gaudin, nova plus random injury flier or two and maybe wang by august waiting behind

          pen
          mo
          aceves
          drob
          + whoever sticks

        • http://twitter.com/tsjc68 tommiesmithjohncarlos a/k/a Ridiculous Upside

          If the Yankees just decide to lower their payroll and save the extra money, then that has no benefit for me as a fan.

          False.

          If the Yankees just lower their payroll and save the extra money BECAUSE WE’RE SAVING IT FOR A BETTER CLASS OF FREE AGENTS NEXT WINTER, like Mauer, Halladay, Crawford, Werth, Lee, etc. (or beyond that, Felix Hernandez, Hanley Ramirez, etc.) then it benefits you as a fan.

          Not spending money on decent-to-good guys right now so we can instead spend it on awesome-to-amazing guys later BENEFITS you as a fan.

          A team that has a long-term strategy for success than demands prudence and patience from time to time benefits you as a fan.

          • jsbrendog

            nitpick, werth signed an extension i believe

          • Chris

            If the Yankees are spending it on other free agents, then they’re not saving it, are they?

            • http://twitter.com/tsjc68 tommiesmithjohncarlos a/k/a Ridiculous Upside

              We’re saving it now so we can spend it later.

              • pete

                which is, of course, the ONLY FUCKING REASON TO SAVE MONEY. for future reference people, when you see somebody considering the option of saving money instead of spending it, assume that this is their reasoning. then think to yourself, what would they intend to spend it on later that they wouldn’t now? Is there something better out there that will be available later? Will it be worth the wait, or do i have no choice but to make the first purchase, despite knowing of a better future alternative, because I cannot cope with my current scenario?
                Think of it this way: you have an ipod. it is not broken. a new one comes out. should you buy that one, or wait until yours breaks and a new, better ipod is available? Ohhhhh now it makes sense….

        • Mister Delaware

          This is the offseason you look for buy low candidates or one year fill-ins. In 2011, Jeter and Mariano are UFAs, we’ll have several potentially costly arbitration cases and some better (albeit older) SPs will hit the market. In 2012, we’ll be looking for a catcher and (assuming no extensions) two of the top 10 SPs in baseball, both on the good side of 30, will be available. Locking up future year money now for the best option in a weak class is bad LT planning.

  • danny

    yuck, no thanks.

  • http://5846.tumblr.com/ ledavidisrael

    Id rather they pay Holliday. If we are going take on a contract with that kind of length.

    • Tom Zig

      +1

    • http://twitter.com/tsjc68 tommiesmithjohncarlos a/k/a Ridiculous Upside

      Agreed, and I don’t want Holliday.

      But, if we’re absolutely, positively determined to add one big-ticket free agent this offseason, it should be Holliday and not Lackey.

      Every day of the week and twice on Sunday.

      • Mike Pop

        It’s Rafael Soriano, Jose Valverde, or Mike Gonzalez!

    • http://bronxbaseballdaily.com Matt ACTY/BBD

      Yeah, I agree with that. If I had to pick between the two, I’d choose Holliday.

  • CountryClub

    Didnt Cash say yesterday that the Yanks havent even had their organizational meetings yet? Anyone from the yankees giving Heyman this info is speaking from his or her own point of view. This isnt an organizational point of view – yet anyway.

    • Doug

      was thinking the same thing. organizational meetings will occur next week before the winter meetings

    • thurdonpaul

      very true, and once they decide on a course of action, they are not gonna blab it to every reporter in sight

    • Andy in Sunny Daytona

      Are you trying to say that sports reporters “make things up”? How dare you, sir? HOW……DARE….YOU?????

      (slaps across face with a glove)

      • jsbrendog

        oh it’s on

  • JGS

    Of course there are rumors that the Yankees are interested

    Rule 1 of Free Agency–never ever ever rule out the Yankees, and when possible, tell people that the Yankees are interested in you

  • mryankee

    I dont get this at all why does anyone care about money? is it your money? are you being perosnally asked to contribute to a f/a contract. I dont car what the payroll is as long as the Yankees are in a position to win it all. I honestly do not get why anyone would be against the team adding quality players. Take te setup role for instance guys like Gonzalez, Putz, possibly Heath Bell might be available and nobody wants to talk about them. Lackey as a three starter would be a great move. Yet because of the money we should not look into this? Makes no sense to me-the Yankeesshould be competing for the top free agenst that can help every year. If they are doing that why would anyone be upset?

    • the artist formerly known as (sic)

      This has to be a troll.

    • Doug

      not the $ with me, it’s the years

    • http://bronxbaseballdaily.com Matt ACTY/BBD

      If they are doing that why would anyone be upset?

      Because some free-agent classes are better than others. This one is a relatively weak class. They should not be spending big on this off-season.

      • mryankee

        Hey I am not opposed to Matt Holliday either. I am saying if they sign Lackey I wont be upset because the payroll is high or because one of Joba or Phil could be upset. If Joba and Phil had pitched better as starters then they would not be discussing adding another starter. Just because they sign a F/A this year does not preclude them from signing a f/a next year.

        • http://bronxbaseballdaily.com Matt ACTY/BBD

          What? I said nothing about the following year. Also, Chamberlain and Phil should be considered because they’re still young, still cheap, and they’re going to be much improved.

          • http://bronxbaseballdaily.com Matt ACTY/BBD

            Correction: I didn’t specifically mention next year, and I didn’t mean to imply it.

          • mryankee

            You are sold that Phil and Joba are going to be great starters next year? you have no doubt? You believe that Johnny Damon, Derek Jeter, and Hideki Matsui will produce at the same level? If so then fine I appreciate your faith and you may very well be right. However I am not going to object to the adding of quality players. You seem to think you know in every trade proposal what other teams would want. Your opposed to even asking about other players. Now you may have blind faith in Cashman and if so fine. I see an opportunity to add some players and get even stronger and win it all again. Stay one step ahead of the competition. What was oneo fo the arguments for signing Tex that we heard subtraction from the sox. Now if I suggest you sign Lackey whom the sox might be intersted in and you subtrac him from the sox. Would you tell me I am being irrational?

            • http://twitter.com/tsjc68 tommiesmithjohncarlos a/k/a Ridiculous Upside

              Would you tell me I am being irrational?

              Yes.

              You’re being irrational. You’ve always been irrational, ever since your first post here. I had hoped that your miserably bad predictions of doom from during the regular season and playoffs would have taught you that you’re pretty much always irrational and always wrong, but I guess not. You just keep soldiering on, thinking that you understand things when you understand nothing.

              • jsbrendog

                You just keep soldiering on, thinking that you understand things when you understand nothing.

                amen

            • jsbrendog

              the red sox signing lackey would be fine because it would do the same thing to them it would do to the yankees, add a large contract on top of what theyve already got and take them out of a sweepstakes for a great starter nxt yr the yr after or the yr after that.

              plus, if they sign lackey then maybe they play hardball and los ebeckett. who knows, i could CARE LESS what the sox do because they are not the yankees. the yankees and brian cashman do what is best FOR THE YANKEES not what might not be good for THE RED SOX

              • mryankee

                Ok then I guess nobody on this site ever mentioned that signing Tex and keeping him from Boston was a benefit. Also if the Yankees stay as compsed and dont win it all then I should not be seeing any complaints from anyone in here.

                • http://bronxbaseballdaily.com Matt ACTY/BBD

                  Sure, it’s a benefit, but it’s no where near the primary reason for signing him.

            • http://bronxbaseballdaily.com Matt ACTY/BBD

              You are sold that Phil and Joba are going to be great starters next year? you have no doubt

              They’re probably not going to be great but they’re probably going to be more than fine.

              You believe that Johnny Damon, Derek Jeter, and Hideki Matsui will produce at the same level

              What does this have to do with John Lackey? Chances are they won’t produce this highly again in 2010, but that doesn’t mean signing a huge FA is the right call.

              Now if I suggest you sign Lackey whom the sox might be intersted in and you subtrac him from the sox. Would you tell me I am being irrational?

              Absolutely. Doing something just because the competition might do it is silly. Would you build a big, elaborate stone wall on your property just because you think your neighbor might do it?

    • http://twitter.com/tsjc68 tommiesmithjohncarlos a/k/a Ridiculous Upside

      I dont get this at all why does anyone care about money?

      Because spending money UNWISELY is a recipe for building a flawed roster than cannot compete long-term. You don’t want to spend money on the wrong people. It prevents you from spending money on the right people later.

      is it your money? are you being perosnally asked to contribute to a f/a contract.

      Irrelevant.

      I dont car what the payroll is as long as the Yankees are in a position to win it all.

      That’s precisely why we care about the payroll. Because mismanaging the payroll will keep us from being in a position to win it all.

      I honestly do not get why anyone would be against the team adding quality players.

      We’re not against adding quality players, provided that there is room to add them.

      THERE IS NO ROOM TO ADD JOHN LACKEY. OUR ROTATION IS FULL. LACKEY HAS NOWHERE TO PLAY. Adding him would not only be expensive, it would create a logjam and lead to a poorly optimized roster construction.

      Take te setup role for instance guys like Gonzalez, Putz, possibly Heath Bell might be available and nobody wants to talk about them.

      People are talking about them all the time. This is false. Plenty of people on here have endorsed adding both Gonzalez and Putz several times already this month.

      You’re the only one who’s interested in trading for Bell, however, because you’re ALWAYS the only one interested in trading for someone. Because the rest of us know that this team does not need any massive overhaul or a gigantic influx of talent (unlike you), and that trading for good players is a poor business strategy when there’s equally good players available in free agency that don’t cost prospects.

      Lackey as a three starter would be a great move.

      A) Lackey’s not going to get a 3 year deal. He’s going to get a 5 year deal.
      B) Lackey would be a great move, IN A VACUUM. Lackey for the 2010 Yankees would be a bad move, BECAUSE WE HAVE NO ROOM FOR HIM IN THE ROTATION.

      I keep shouting at you because you refuse to listen to the plainly obvious truth. Lackey has no spot or role on this team. We already have 5 starters.

      Yet because of the money we should not look into this?

      No. The money is just the secondary reason why we shouldn’t look into it. The primary reason is, Lackey is simply unnecessary.

      Makes no sense to me-the Yankeesshould be competing for the top free agenst that can help every year.

      NO THEY MOST CERTAINLY FUCKING SHOULDN’T. They should be building the best possible team every year. Often, that means we should sign the best available free agent. Often, it means we SHOULDN’T sign the best available free agent, because that free agent does not fit our short term or long term plans to build the best possible team.

      If they are doing that why would anyone be upset?

      Because doing that would be acting reflexively, instead of thinking strategically.

      • Chris

        WE HAVE NO ROOM FOR HIM IN THE ROTATION.

        Actually, there is room: CC, Lackey, AJ, Pettitte, Joba with Hughes in AAA.

        I tend to agree that signing Lackey to a 5 year deal is a bad move, but it’s a pretty safe assumption that it would help the team in 2010.

        • http://twitter.com/tsjc68 tommiesmithjohncarlos a/k/a Ridiculous Upside

          Having Hughes in the big leagues and having 80M in non-Lackey money still on the ledger is a much better roster composition than having Lackey and leaving Hughes in AAA.

          Phil Hughes is a big league pitcher. He’s good enough to start for a big league team. That team is us.

          • Chris

            I agree that signing Lackey to a big 5 year deal is a bad idea, but you keep arguing that there isn’t room in the rotation for him next year. That’s not true. There is room for him, but Joba or Hughes would need to go to AAA or (hopefully not) the bullpen.

            Phil Hughes may be good enough to start for a big league team. So far he hasn’t proven that. I would be comfortable with him starting for the Yankees next year, but I also think he could benefit from more time in AAA.

            • http://twitter.com/tsjc68 tommiesmithjohncarlos a/k/a Ridiculous Upside

              Excuse the unstated assumption.

              There’s no room for Lackey in the rotation because we’re committed to putting Joba and Hughes in the big league rotation for 2010.

              As we should be.

              Sorry for not spelling it out explicitly.

  • mryankee

    I dont get this at all why does anyone care about money? is it your money? are you being perosnally asked to contribute to a f/a contract. I dont car what the payroll is as long as the Yankees are in a position to win it all. I honestly do not get why anyone would be against the team adding quality players. Take te setup role for instance guys like Gonzalez, Putz, possibly Heath Bell might be available and nobody wants to talk about them. Lackey as a three starter would be a great move. Yet because of the money we should not look into this? Makes no sense to me-the Yankeesshould be competing for the top free agenst that can help every year. If they are doing that why would anyone be upset?

    • jsbrendog

      you do realize that they play baseball EVERY year right? they don’t just play next year and MAYBE the year after?

      and in 4 yrs with an almost 40 burnett, a 35 yr old lackey, a late 30s arodm, possibly a 40 yr old jeter, a mid 30s cc that this would be the stupidest thign ever right? when you can possibly get just as good or better production from any combo of joba/hughes/mcallister/betances/insert prospect here for literally 1/10000000 (ok not literally) of the cost?

      dude, you don’t go buy a ps3 right before the ps4 comes out for full price because you know in a yr or 2 ps4 wll come out and it will be better for the same or a little more $$

      • Tom Zig

        dude, you don’t go buy a ps3 right before the ps4 comes out for full price because you know in a yr or 2 ps4 wll come out and it will be better for the same or a little more $$

        Excellent analogy

        • http://bronxbaseballdaily.com Matt ACTY/BBD

          I still haven’t bought a PS3. I’m about to, though. Yay, $299.

  • JeffG

    If the idea is to give yourself the best chance to repeat for a championship, Lackey gives us the best chance. Hughes and Joba should be starters but it doesn’t have to be both this year.
    Lackey is the smart move. The question is whether or not we can bump our payroll up to 220 mil – because that is what it will take.

    • Doug

      but you don’t sign 31-year old pitcher with recent arm problems to a 5 yr/$80M contract because it give you the best chance to repeat

      • JeffG

        Lackey finished the season strong. He looks good and healthy. Phil, Joba, Aj, Andy have had arm problems… Lackey can be fine during his contract. There is nothing in my mind to say he can’t.

        • Doug

          5 years is a loooong time, though. We already have one long-term, high-priced health risk in AJ. Not sure we need another.

          • JeffG

            Eight years is a long time… and you never know maybe the market only dictates that he get four.

  • r.w.g.

    It really depends on what the front office is thinking they want to do with Joba or Phil Hughes.

    If they go this route, one of them is going in the bullpen, maybe for good. Or maybe until Pettitte actually retires, but then that’s yet another year of low innings counts for guys who are creeping up on 25.

    • Chris

      Or they now have the flexibility to send one (or both) back to AAA if they struggle – which they couldn’t do with Joba this year.

      • http://twitter.com/tsjc68 tommiesmithjohncarlos a/k/a Ridiculous Upside

        We currently that flexibility with Kennedy, Gaudin, Mitre, and Aceves.

        I’m all in favor of adding to that flexibility with someone like J-Douche. But Joba and Hughes are ready to start, now. Sure, they may struggle, so we should be looking at insurance policies for them if they do.

        Duchscherer is such an insurance policy. Lackey is not an insurance policy, he’s an overreaction.

      • r.w.g.

        I guess they could do that. They’ve already got Kennedy down on the farm, too. Eventually it becomes shit or get off the pot, you know?

        Lackey already rejected a 3 year deal from the Angels if the reporting was accurate. I wouldn’t cry in my cheerios if we signed the guy, but we’ve already got Burnett signed to a somewhat questionable deal.

        I just don’t want to run into another “let’s get Randy Johnson instead of Carlos Beltran because we jacked up our payroll so much in previous seasons we can only afford one” situation.

        Maybe I’m thinking it out too much, but after the last 9 years and watching very good teams just-barely-lose because of inflexibility at the top level and Alex Gramans and Brad Halseys at the bottom levels.. I’m just a bit gun shy.

  • Mike Pop

    Meh. I don’t think I would care too much if Yankees signed him. As long as this doesn’t mean Hughes or Joba goes to the pen for life.

    I’d rather throw some of that money at Aroldis Chapman, The Duke, and Mike Cameron though.

    • JMK aka The Overshare

      But by signing Lackey, they’d have to not be renewing Pettitte, right? Signing Lackey eats away at flexibility over the course of perhaps a half-decade (you’d be investing at least $60 million annually on THREE rotation guys for four-five years. That renders the Yankees less likely to sign those guys you listed, and possibly re-sign guys.

      • Mike Pop

        I figure Yanks know they don’t ‘need’ Lackey like they did A.J.(not counting CC cause that’s an obvious sign if there is one) so if he ended up here it would be for less that 5 years. Cashman isn’t going to mess with ‘the plan’ for Joba and Hughes by not letting them develop. I’d figure he’d be here for 4 years max. This means – next year it’s CC/AJ/Lackey/Pettitte/Joba or Phil with the other developing more in AAA and being the 6th starter when one of our starters inevitably has an injury. Then in 2011 we have both our boys in the rotation once Pettitte retires after his second consecutive ring.

        Spending time in the minors is NEVER a bad thing, look at Jeff Niemann. Dude was great this year, he had all that time in the minors. Same goes for Buchholz.

        Ultimately, I don’t really expect Lackey to sign here based on I really doubt the Yankees would give him 5 years and that’s what it might come down to.

        • Mike Pop

          Also when I say ‘need’ AJ, it’s based on that the Yankees wanted to win a championship in 2009 and they probably thought he was their best bet by adding him to CC.. then add Teix!!!!

        • JMK aka The Overshare

          “Spending time in the minors is NEVER a bad thing…”

          Not necessarily. Listen, if the player is ready, it’s a poor allocation of resources. The team gets far more value in having a cost-controlled player contribute to the big league team and develop there, if they can handle it. This doesn’t mean I’m advocating taking a bunch of DSL players and throwing them to the wolves. It should be taken on a player-to-player basis. Clearly Hughes is ready. He’s shown he can play at the highest level. Maybe there are some things he can refine, but he can do that with Eiland here. You wouldn’t still have King Felix in AAA, would you?

          • Mike Pop

            I hear you man, but Hughes has shown he can play at the highest level mainly in the pen – just like Joba did and there were definitely times this year that we all thought Joba could of used some extra time in the minors.

            King Felix was in the majors at 19 cause he’s the balls. So no, I wouldn’t, haha.

            I’m not advocating a Lackey signing at all, but mainly I think I would be okay with it because I think that it would be something the Yankees are okay with doing. Like not going 5 years.

            • JMK aka The Overshare

              Felix is an outlier, yes. Niemann and Clay are poor examples, though. I don’t think Joba or Hughes would need to stick around in AAA until they’re 25 or 26. FWIW, I think Clay and Jeff spent far too much time in the minors, anyway, though part of that was because of the supposed “depth” on the Sox. Most guys worth their cleats just don’t need that much development time.

              Sure, perhaps both Joba and Hughes could use a bit of time working on secondary pitches, the running game and other assorted nuances. Say you sign Lackey and Pettitte this year. Your rotation is CC, AJ, Andy, Lackey, Joba/Phil?

              Who do you send down? Lackey won’t sign for 3 years. He’ll get five; he’s the best FA pitcher this year and someone will reach. Say it’s the Yanks. In four years you’re looking at CC, AJ, Lackey all in their mid-30s, making tons of money, and because of that, probably untradable. Meanwhile, you’ve already blocked one of your best pitchers (Joba or Hughes), who are now going to be very expensive, since their arb. clock/free agency advanced a year without any meaningful production.

        • pete

          i really think hughes has more to gain from struggling in the majors than dominating in the minors. With CC, AJ, Andy, and our lineup, i’d be ok with joba and hughes being inconsistent this year. In fact, i fully expect it. I think people just need to come to grips with the fact that neither of them is Felix Hernandez or Tim Lincecum. But if either turns out to be Matt Garza or Jon Lester or Zach Greinke, then who the hell can complain. And by greinke i don’t mean the pedro-esque freak of 2009, i mean the guy who before this year was a guy who might not ever fully realize his potential, but was still a quality pitcher, despite a couple years of struggles when he came up.

    • Tom Zig

      We could probably spend all the money Lackey would get and get those 3 players and then some. I’d consider that an excellent offseason

      • Mike Pop

        Hell yeah! I’m not down for adding Lackey at all. Just saying I wouldn’t lose sleep over signing him.

    • http://twitter.com/tsjc68 tommiesmithjohncarlos a/k/a Ridiculous Upside

      I’d rather throw some of that money at Aroldis Chapman, The Duke, and Mike Cameron though.

      BINGO

    • http://bronxbaseballdaily.com Matt ACTY/BBD

      I’d rather throw some of that money at Aroldis Chapman, The Duke, and Mike Cameron though.

      Nothing to add.

  • Mike bk

    Dierkes also said the Pads are going to spend 7 mil on Cameron for next year.

    • jsbrendog

      like throwing a hot dog down a hallway

      • r.w.g.

        you’ve met my ex-girlfriend?

    • Mike Pop

      Not down with those predictions at all.

  • theyankeewarrior

    I see the Lackey rumors as a vehicle to drive up the price for other teams. The Yankees could easily slide him into the rotation in 2010, and have been prone to big FA signings in the past, so why not pretend they actually want him and make their competition ante up for another year or 30 million extra dollars?

    • pete

      bingo

  • http://kyivpost.img.com.ua/img/forall/a/355/5.jpg Rose

    AJ Burnett and John Lackey in our rotation 5 years from now making what they would be making is a scary thought.

    No reason to have both that long.

    CC, AJ, Pettitte, Joba, Hughes is nice…hoping that both Joba and Hughes can stop it up and stay consistent. Who do we get to take over their roll in the bullpen? Assuming Robertson is going to stay the way he was is nice and all…but he did get hurt…and who else?

    Also, what about Duscherer? Still a good idea? How much would Rich Harden cost?

    • http://bronxbaseballdaily.com Matt ACTY/BBD

      J-Dukes is a good idea because he’ll come cheap and can be a swingman/6th starter. Harden would probably cost too much and he’s not desirable, really. He’s a 5 IP starter in the NL who’s injured frequently. No thanks.

      • pete

        duchsherer is a great idea, but i don’t expect him to sign here. he proved last year that he can be more than a swingman/6th starter. some NL team will offer him a 3rd starter job, and unless he desperately wants to win, then he’ll go there. That said, if the yanks get Duchsherer, Cameron, Damon, and Matsui, i might cry from happiness.

  • JeffG

    To me the big question is what our rotation would look like heading into the postseason if we are lucky enough to get there next year.
    Will Joba be able to find consistency? Will our top three starters remain healthy/effective? Phil won’t even factor in because of his innings limit so I think Lacky is makes the team very, very strong.

    • Mike Pop

      In response to ‘Lackey makes the team very, very strong.’

      This is without a doubt true. The Yankees would be rolling through the next 2 seasons. But would this signing keep the Yankees from being players for Felix/Mauer/insert awesome FA to be here.

      I know it’s not a guarantee that these guys make FA, but they are definitely money better spent than John Lackey is. Also, the one thing I am looking most forward to next year is seeing how Joba and Hughes perform. We’ve been waiting for these guys to be starting on consecutive days for us for a long time comin’ and that’s probably what I am most looking forward to next season. Then there’s always Burnett, always look forward to him.

      • JeffG

        I really think that is the honest answer from most people on this site is that: fans are chomping at the bit to see Hughes and Joba in the rotation. In 2008 Ian and Hughes were in the rotation and many felt that was a good enough team to win.
        The thing is you have to consider that for a team that plans to win every year – there is no need to gamble on youth.
        I look forward to Joba having a full year this year without pitching limitations. If he proves to be a valuable starter then I say 2011 bring Hughes into the mix. For now though, I don’t think you push it with two inexperienced youngsters.

        • pete

          hughes was injured in ’08, though. Kennedy i’m not sold on, but I think hughes can be everything that joba was this year. That is to say, inconsistent, but flashing enough dominance to really prove to me that he is capable of being a front end starter. I think joba next year will be more consistent than this year, but will still have up and down stretches. Just his down stretches will be shorter, his up stretches longer, and he won’t hit the wall he hit last year.
          As for IPK, I really think he can be a quality major league starter, I just don’t see any place for him on this team now or in the future. I think the best thing for him would be to have to struggle through major league lineups for a couple years, but the yankees just can’t afford to do that with him. Some NL team probably could though, and i think that’s eventually where he’ll end up. I hope for 2010, though, that we keep him here and either he starts at AAA and is a serviceable spot starter or finds a significant role in our pen, a la aceves.

  • Glenallen Hill

    Lackey could very well be the second coming of Kevin Brown.

    No need to bring that kind of attitude into a clubhouse that seemed to mesh real well this past season.

    Plus, if you are going to try and sign a quality pitcher with past injury problems there are much cheaper options.

    • r.w.g.

      I know Saint Joe threw Kevin Brown under the bus in his book, but I’m pretty sure Kevin Brown’s back was more the problem with why he didn’t help us win, more so than his attitude. Until he punched the wall or whatever and broke his hand.. but Tulowitzki did something similar, as did Carlos Quentin. Hell I did it a few years ago, there wasn’t an article about it.

      Attitude or chemistry doesn’t affect whether you mean or lose, it just leaves a poor taste in your mouth when you come up short and it’s easy to reach for.

  • aj

    There’s no way that they get Lackey. I don’t think Hal wants to go over payroll or commit to another 31yr old for 4-5 years. Next year we have Halladay, Cliff Lee and alot of great pitchers available. Not to mention King Felix in 2 years.

    • Johnny

      Dont get the 31 year old Lackey so you can sign the 33 old Halladay (in 2010) or the 32 year old Cliff Lee (in 2010).

      Brilliant!

      • http://twitter.com/tsjc68 tommiesmithjohncarlos a/k/a Ridiculous Upside

        Halladay and Lee are both far better pitchers than Lackey.

        Far, far, far, far, far better. If we’re gonna sign an over 30 pitcher, I wanna sign the slightly older but much, much better Halladay or Lee rather than the slightly younger but far, far inferior Lackey.

        • Johnny

          I guess I disagree with you on the amount of “far”s.

          • http://twitter.com/tsjc68 tommiesmithjohncarlos a/k/a Ridiculous Upside

            Cliff Lee, 2008-2009: 455 IP, 154 ERA+
            Roy Halladay, 2008-2009: 485 IP, 155 ERA+

            John Lackey, 2008-2009: 339.2 IP, 119 ERA+

            http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0WhuikFY1Pg (safe)

            • Buddy

              I see what you did there… You cut off Lackey’s Cy Young year 2007… Well done sir.

          • pete

            well you’d be wrong. According to fangraphs, Cliff Lee has been worth 6.1 more FARs/year than lackey over the last two years, and halladay has been worth 5.9 (and has a longer and more dominant track record than lee). Even with some expected age-related dropoff, either of those guys is about 5 FARs better than than lackey. so tommie is right.

  • A.D.

    The Yankees aren’t expected to be as aggressive this winter on the free market as last offseason

    Well that’s big news, given that its essentially impossible due to lack of FA class.

  • Guest

    I’ll throw my lot in with those who like Lackey, but don’t want to give a 30 yr. old pitcher with arm injuries in the last two seasons a big five year contract. I also disagree with the move, as others have, becauseof just how awesome the 2010 and 2011.

    And to those who argue that signing a free agent this year will not preclude them from signing a free agent next year I have two words for you: Carlos & Beltran.

  • Johnny

    So Lackey is too old…

    So a rotation of a

    35 year old David Cone
    33 year old El Duque
    37 year old David Wells
    30 year old Irabu
    23 year old Pettitte

    Would suck then, right?

  • Guest

    Felix Hernandex is 23 years old. I would rather have Felix Hernandez than John Lackey. The odds that the Yanks can sign/ or trade for Felix with Lackey/CC/AJ on the payroll are not as high as they would be with CC/AJ/Joba/Phil on the payroll. Consequently, don’t sign the 30 year old with arm issues and keep the flexibility to sign/trade for the best young pitcher of this generation (non Lincecum division).

    • Johnny

      Your comment really has no grounding until you propose what you give up for Felix.

      If you have to give up Joba, Hughes and Montero for Felix then I’d rather just have Lackey.

      • http://bronxbaseballdaily.com Matt ACTY/BBD

        Or just do neither option.

      • http://twitter.com/tsjc68 tommiesmithjohncarlos a/k/a Ridiculous Upside

        Your comment really has no grounding until you propose what you give up for Felix.

        Here’s what I give up for Felix:

        Money. Stacks and stacks and stacks of money.

        Part of that money will be the money I didn’t spend on John Lackey.

    • pete

      felix is better than timmy. lincecum pitches in the NL west and is 25. Felix had an almost identical year pitching in the AL (the AL west ain’t the AL East, but the rangers offense is sick and the angels aren’t exactly a pushover) at age 23. Even if you don’t think felix is better, he’s certainly in the lincecum division. And by the time we sign him, he will be the best pitcher in baseball. Unless of course we can’t because we have too much money tied up in a john lackey or matt holliday contract.

  • DJ

    The yanks don’t need to tinker with their starting pitching. Just sign Pettitte, and take a flyer on Ducsherer and be done with it. I am completely fine with a rotation of CC/AJ/Andy/Joba/Phil w/ Duke/Gaudin/Kennedy as depth. They should sign Damon,Cameron,and Nick Johnson also IMO.

    • DJ

      Chapman too

    • pete

      i’d be good with matsui or johnson, really. Johnson’s obviously younger, but matsui is still a cursmidgeon better, and we could get him on a 1 year deal, which i’m not sure about with Johnson. I’m also not sure that a 1B of Johnson’s caliber wants to DH for a team that can probably only start him at most 5 games a week.

    • DonnieBaseballHallofFame

      Big fan of Nick Johnson. That said, no way in hell we want or need dude on this team. If we sign him we should just put him straight on the DL to be more efficient.

  • pete

    Dear mryankee:
    You are acting like George Steinbrenner, circa 1980. You mustn’t think that every offseason was created equal, because it wasn’t. The simple fact is, this past offseason a legitimate ace and a legitimate MVP candidate were available via free agency, along with a couple of very good but not great starters. One was Derek Lowe, the other AJ Burnett. Lowe is a consistent workhorse, but not quite an ace. AJ is inconsistent as hell, but at his best can match any pitcher in baseball. With Sabathia and Wang (pre suckitude) on the team already, and Andy Pettitte a likely target, the team had its ace, and it had its innings eater. Cashman went with AJ because there are pitchers who will be able to match CC, come playoffs, but there isn’t a #2 in baseball who can keep up with AJ when he is on his game. Some felt like the 5 years on his deal were too many for a guy with an injury problem, but personally, I’d prefer getting 4 out of 5 years on a burnett deal than 2 of 3. But I digress.

    This year, the free agent crop is not even in the same universe as last year’s. The yankees could pick up a mediocre defensive outfielder who, at 30, is one of the better offensive outfielders in baseball, and a pitcher who, also at 30, is among the better pitchers in baseball, but is not elite by any standard. Both of these players, however, will be looking for big-time contracts. If the yankees got either of them, then in 5 years they would have well over $100 million tied up in a few players aged 35 and up. This would effectively prohibit them from building a team of anything but scrubs or inexperienced guys around them. In other words, after 2010 and maybe 2011, the yankees would be crippled by the moves they made this offseason.

    Now if the free agents this offseason were of the same caliber as last season, then that’d be another story. Chances are, CC, AJ, Tex, and A-Rod will all still be excellent players when they reach their mid-30s. Holliday, however, projects to be more of a matsui/damon type bat, with matsui/damon type defense when he hits his mid-30s. Now matsui and damon are both very productive players, but their value is in the $10-$13 million range, not 15-20, which is likely the kind of contract holliday and lackey are expecting, and will probably end up getting from more desperate teams (hello, mets). As for Lackey, do you expect him to pitch any better than Pettitte in his age 35 season? No? Then why should he earn more than pettitte’s $11 mil?

    Also, standing pat is not as weak of a position as you think it is. The last time the best team in baseball won the world series was 2007, and the sox did very little moving into ’08, yet reached game 7 of the ALCS. If the yankees reach game 7 of the alcs next year, i will certainly be insanely disappointed that they didn’t get further, but i would consider the season in general a success, especially considering the fact that the free agent market of each of the next two offseasons will have lots of toys to choose from, unlike this one. If the yankees financially cripple themselves to ensure that the team is even better than its 103 win counterpart from this year for what will really amount to two years of awesomeness before they start to fall off a cliff without the free agent parachute that not signing lackey or holliday now would have given them, then i’d be pretty pissed.

    To be totally honest, i’m not buying this piece from heyman. He’s just making mountains out of molehills. Of course lackey is on the yankees’ radar, and of course they’re talking to him. That would be insane not to. If the yankees aren’t involved in the negotiations, then neither guy gets the money or the years that they’re going to want. If the redsox have to give one of those guys 5 years and 80 million, that means cashman is doing his job. if somebody snags him for 3 years 50 million, then he’s not.

    The yankees could go into 2010 with their roster exactly as is (i.e., resign damon, matsui, pettitte), and they would probably still be the best team in baseball. Not by as wide a margin as last year, but even that could change if Joba and phil make some strides (which isn’t exactly unlikely). The yankees can’t be the runaway best team in baseball every year. It’s impossible. The nature of free agency, budgets, age, and the draft and IFA pool prohibit that. They can, however, always be one of the best teams, and then when the opportunity presents itself to flex their financial muscle without ruining their future, then they do. that’s what happened last year. this year, that opportunity does not exist. John Lackey is not CC sabathia. Matt Holliday is not mark teixeira. CC was worth not getting johan. will lackey be worth not getting felix or hanley or mauer or another player of that caliber? NO. Use your head, you nincompoop.
    thanks for reading the first three sentences and then deciding that since you disagree, you didn’t feel like reading the rest.
    Pete

  • http://theenlighteneddespot.com NC Saint

    Is Boras going to be jealous that Heyman is now on someone else’s payroll as well? There’s not much point in keeping these people on staff if they hype up other people’s free agents.

    • DonnieBaseballHallofFame

      I almost spit my drink out. Heyman, I think trades his space on his column to Boras for access. Heyman by being in SI, on TV at times and on WFAN can really turn a rumor whispered in his ear by his pal Borass into what people think is fact.

  • DonnieBaseballHallofFame

    I would like Lackey if his years and dollars drop south of that hundo mill 5 year BS. Also any possibility of AJ being dealt to a team like the Braves who were dying for him before if they could get rid of the guy they signed instead and seem to not want in Lowe?

    AJ is always going to be uneven. Great or not so great. I saw AJ pitch in spring training and the regular season 8 times and it seems like I saw 3 different pitchers.

    Lackey has his issues, but he seems pretty consistent to the naked eye.

    To the question of what would you do with Joba and Hughes. Bullpen, backup starter or trade one of them for a good OF.

  • Mike

    i hope they don’t get him for the sole reason of next off-season’s FA class. it is absolutely ridiculous. if they are going to fork over a huge contract, wait a year and get someone that is worth it.