Yankees set to acquire Curtis Granderson, pending physicals


The rumor started late last night and developed throughout the day. Now it’s close to official: the Yankees have agreed to acquire centerfielder Curtis Granderson from the Tigers in a three team trade. Here’s the breakdown of who will get what:

To Yankees: CF Curtis Granderson

To Tigers: LHP Phil Coke, CF Austin Jackson, RHP Max Scherzer, LHP Dan Schlereth

To D-Backs: RHP Edwin Jackson, RHP Ian Kennedy,

Joel Sherman says that removing lefty reliever Mike Dunn was a key for the Yankees, who now have some leverage to use against free agent Johnny Damon. Sherman adds that the trade may not be finalized today because “minor details, mainly medicals, take time, must be worked thru.”

In Granderson, the Yankees will get a 28-year-old centerfielder coming off a 30 homerun, 20 steal season. However, he can’t hit lefthanded pitching at all (.210-.270-.344), and his once superb defense is now just slightly above average. The Yanks also pick up some major cost certainty, as Granderson is signed through 2012 for a total of $25.75M, plus there’s an option for 2013. He’s also familiar with Derek Jeter, having played with him during the WBC.

To get Granderson, the Bombers gave up their top prospect coming into 2009 in Austin Jackson,  who hit .300-.354-.405 in Triple-A this year. Ian Kennedy’s last act as a Yankee will be pitching a scoreless 8th inning in a meaningless late season game against the Angels, while Phil Coke will be remembered as the guy that gave up two homers in one World Series inning. The move makes a dent in the Yanks’ pitching depth, however the Yanks can make up for some it with the player they take first overall in Thursday’s Rule 5 Draft.

Dave Cameron at FanGraphs calls the deal “almost too good to be true” for the Yanks.

Categories : Transactions


  1. AJ says:

    YES! This was a great move by Cashman!

    • Chris C. says:

      “YES! This was a great move by Cashman!”

      LMAO!!!! It’s an aweful move. Aweful! Dombrowski has been picking Cashman’s pockets for years now!

      Granderson is a so-so hitter (.242, .327 obp, .780 ops) and he’s not even a good base-stealer anymore (20 sb’s….big deal). He is overhyped as a defensive player, and he can’t hit lefties for shit!

      That is really worth Jackson, Kennedy, and Coke? No way.
      THIS is the guy they chose to move Austin Jackson for???? Ridiculous. I mean, the numbers don’t lie. Are the Yankees really stroking themselves that hard over this guy’s 30 dingers? Because everything else he brings to the table is pretty pedestrian.

      • LMAO!!!! It’s an aweful move. Aweful! Dombrowski has been picking Cashman’s pockets for years now!


        And, what are these other moves where Dombrowski picked Cashman’s pockets? Elucidate, please. Details.

        • scoopemup says:

          Yea, They really fleeced us on Farnsworth.

          • Chris C. says:

            As hard as it is to believe, the Yankees actually got less value from IROD than the Tigers did from Farnsworth. I know…..I can’t believe it either.

        • Chris C. says:

          Let’s see……..the Yankees have handed Dombrowski Mike Lowell, Ted Lilly, and Gary Sheffield. Can you name the players the Yankees got in return, and how A SINGLE ONE of them contributed positively to the Yankees?

          Dombrowski built two DIFFERENT WS winners in Florida, then came to Detroit and pulled the Tigers out of the basement and into respectibility. And he did it all without a 200 million dollar budget, so I don’t think I need to further ELUCIDATE why the man doesn’t give too many bargains to his fellow GM’s.

  2. AJ says:

    AND I Want him in CF not in LF, itd be great to have a good CF with speed.

  3. Mike Pop says:

    Sucks to give up A-Jax but you have to give to get.

  4. I’m rather annoyed that the Yankees’ aren’t getting back any prospects. Why involve the D-Backs at all if they give nothing back?

    • Brian says:

      maybe Cashman just wanted to be nice?

    • A.D. says:

      Agreed, seems more like the Tigers doing 2 deals at once, where they needed the Yanks deal to go down first.

    • Keanu Reeves says:

      Yeah, it seems a little odd.

    • BklynJT says:

      The problem is we cannot just give up Jackson and Coke to get Granderson. We had to part with Kennedy too, which the Tigers flipped and sent to the Dbacks. And that is why it is a 3 team deal…

    • Reggie C. says:

      B/c the Tigers must’ve really wanted to unload Edwin jackson that bad. The Scherzer / Schlereth return is solid for a dominant half-season wonder.

    • Michael says:

      I agree. I would have liked to have gotten away with a deal without losing AJAX and IPK.

      But I guess Detroit had Scherzer > Kennedy and thats why they were involved.

    • Why involve the D-Backs at all if they give nothing back?

      They did give something back. They gave the Tigers Scherzer and Schlereth.

      Without that, this deal probably doesn’t happen. From Detroit’s perspective, if you eliminate Arizona entirely, the deal changes from this:

      GIVE: Jackson and Granderson
      GET: Scherzer, Schlereth, AJax, Coke

      to this:

      GIVE: Granderson
      GET: AJax, IPK, Coke

      … now, maybe they could flip Edwin Jackson to someone for two arms of Scherzer and Schlereth’s caliber in a separate deal, but… maybe they can’t. For a team strapped for cash trying to move two guys who are either expensive or soon to be expensive, and who have red flags, I’d much prefer to move them both together and get the Scherzer/Schlereth arms instead of the Kenendy arm by itself.

      Scherzer and Schlereth are great arms. (I don’t understand why the Diamondbacks moved them, but whatevs.)

  5. mustang says:

    Bottom line:

    Great move by Cashman now he can think about pitching and let Damon and Scott Boras look for the meaning of life if they want to.

    I told a friend the other day I wouldn’t be surprise if they end up with both Granderson and Halladay. He called me a greedy Yankees fan.

    I say “The point is, ladies and gentleman, that greed, for lack of a better word, is good. Greed is right, greed works”
    Gordon Gekko in Wall Street.

  6. Keanu Reeves says:

    I’m okay with this…but it sounds like the Yanks aren’t getting any prospects in the deal, which was something I was hoping for.

  7. Reggie C. says:

    I will continue to follow Austin Jackson’s career with much interest, and now, trepidation.

  8. pat says:

    Even though I really should be, I’m not a fan of this. Granderson has been trending downward in everything except HR the past few years. My unbridled love and optimism for AJAX keeps me from liking this. Oh well, I hope I’m wrong.

    Good for IPK tho, he gets to pitch closer to home and in a much easier division.

    • Reggie C. says:

      I agree. IPK is a clear winner from this trade. He could very well make the AZ rotation as the 5th starter.

    • IPK gets to pitch about 2 hours closer to home (but he still has to fly there, either way), but he has to live in Detroit instead of New York. He’d probably prefer to sit on an airplane for a couple of extra hours here and there than live in Detroit over NY. (Not that this really matters.)

      On more important matters- I agree about Granderson. It’s hard not to like this trade from a transactional standpoint, but I definitely worry about Granderson’s recent trends. Hopefully 2009 was the outlier.

    • IRememberCelerinoSanchez says:

      I agree, Pat. I really respect the insight of a lot of people who comment here, so I want to know what I’m missing, since I see this deal as horrific. Not meh, not bad, but horrific.

      As Pat noted, Granderson has been worse every year than the year before. And his lefty-righty splits are Mo-awful.

      A Jax is one of the few legit OF prospects in the system, and IPK, though he takes a lot of abuse, is a legit back-of-the-rotation starting prospect. I don’t give a damn about Coke. He’s fine but eminently replaceable.

      If this is a straight Granderson for Damon move, then I am depressed.

      Plus, we can no longer make the IPK and Melky for everyone jokes.

      I hate this.

      • UNION YES. says:

        If you’re going to point out Granderson’s decline, what about AJAX’s decline in power numbers.

        • Bo says:

          Dont make it sound like Jackson is a sure thing all star here.

          He looks like a solid player but not a star especially with lacking any kind of power.

  9. emac2 says:

    Terrible deal!

    Just because we have a great infield doesn’t mean we should be overpaying a bunch of outfielders who can’t hit.

  10. AndrewYF says:

    The Yankees also opened up 2 spots on the 40-man roster.

  11. Ted H says:

    What do people think about Reed Johnson as a platoon-mate for Granderson? Last 3 years he’s hit .329 .395 .483 against lefties and plays a beastly left field (when healthy). Obvious issue is having 5 OF.

  12. NYCOUG says:

    Sorry to lose Jackson but Granderson will be a huge pickup for our outfield. Move the Milk to LF and have Granderson at CF and Swish at RF. Sounds good to me!

  13. A.D. says:

    Dear Curtis Granderson,

    Please start hitting LHP.

    The Fans

  14. rbizzler says:

    Just read the blurb by Chad at LoHud about A-Jax and I would be lying if I didn’t feel just the slightest twinge of regret.

    I hope he blows up in Motown.

  15. whitey says:

    Pretty juiced on this deal.
    Granderson in the #2 hole against righties
    Swisher in the #2 hole against lefties

  16. Evil Empire says:

    Good move. Hard to argue with getting a known commodity like Granderson in his prime for unknown commodities that may or may not pan out. Now we can dream of K-Long getting him to hit at a respectable level vs lefties.

    Nonetheless, I’d expect a power surge from him next in YSIII. He’s an excellent fit for us, definitely the best option we have for the 2-hole.

    Thanks AJax and IPK! You fellas did your job as trade bait.

    Who’s the common sense platoon partner for him? Melky?

    • sciorsci says:

      He’s not going to hit at a respectable level vs. lefties without the opportunity to hit vs. lefties. So the common sense platoon partner for Granderson is Granderson.

  17. Tom Zig says:

    It saddens me that there will be no more IPK + Melky trades

  18. Beamish says:

    So, really, the Yankees traded AJax, IPK and Coke for Curtis Granderson. The fact that Detroit essentially spun IPK and Coke to AZ is irrelevant to the Yankees; so it is not really a three-way trade.

    They say even a good trade should hurt. This kinda hurts. I think they sold low on either Jackson or IPK by sending both for one OF, or the Yankees see their ceilings as lower than the many of the rest of us.

    • BklynJT says:

      No, it is a 3 way trade because it would not of happened without 3 teams involved… You can’t make these trades as 2 separate trades because you can’t be sure the latter team wont back out of it… you know, after you already completed the first trade, leaving you with a player you didn’t want in the first place.

    • sciorsci says:

      This is the way the vast majority of “three-way” trades go down. Very rarely does Team A get players (or money, or PTBNL) from B and C, B from A and C, C from A and B, etc. Usually, it can be broken down, in a sense, into two separate two-team trades, but there’s so many backchannel contingencies involved that it is very much a three-way trade.

  19. Cam says:

    I do like Granderson, but part of me is definitely dissapointed that we won’t get to see what Jackson will become. I know he’s just a prospect but after hearing about him all this time, definitely sucks a little. But that’s some kind of outfield the Yanks have now!

  20. barry says:

    I don’t like giving up IPK but getting rid of A Jax before his value tanks is a godsend, plus this stabilizes the outfield for a while.

  21. Bill R says:

    Haha now Damon’s probably crapping his pants cause his stock just went Waaayyy down in the Yankees eyes

  22. danny says:

    im excited/sad, i hate trading away prospects after watching them develope. all the best to a-jax.

  23. Omg!Zombies! says:

    Giving up AJax hurts but it should. You are getting a very good player in Granderson. Plus defense and Plus power, all reasonably price and at the ripe at of 27. That would allow the Yankees to not give Damon the 2+ years hes looking for.

    Best part of all hopefully no more Halladay to the Yanks.

  24. ABS says:

    Jackson and Kennedy was a lot to give up for a guy who declined two straight years to a bad .249/.327/.453 line (worst than Melky) who can’t hit lefties a lick – check out his splits, 2008 is the only year he was even passable against lefties. Maybe it works out, and he reverts back to 2007 or even 2008 form, but Kennedy is a legit starting pitcha and Jackson is their second best prospect (I could care less about Coke).

    • AJ says:

      What makes Kennedy legit? And Melky’s slugging was under .420, and he hasn’t shown to be any better than that. This is a great deal.

      • ABS says:

        I say. Watch him this year in Arizona. As for Melky, you’re missing the point – he was not a good hitter last year – I’m sorry, but .327 OBP is just BAD for a guy hyped as much as Granderson, much less one who hit leadoff. Last year, he would have been (production wise) the 9 hitter in the Yankee lineup, or maybe the 8 hitter, if you want to get picky.

    • Dwnflfan says:

      You know who else couldn’t hit lefties a lick when we traded for him?

      Paul O’Neill

      O’Neill’s career OPS vs LH’ers was 0.598 when he came over from Cincy

      Granderson’s career OPS vs LH’ers is 0.614.and a year younger than O’Neill was when traded.

      Granderson also has OPS’d 84 pts higher on the road over his career.

      I remember wondering what the Yankees were thinking when they dealt Roberto Kelly for a platoon RF’er.

    • Mr. Max says:

      Melk was OPS+ 99. Grand was 100. Grand’s peak/average: 135/113. Melk: 99(this season)/88.

      Melk also can’t hit lefties.

  25. Rage says:

    I am pissed off

  26. whitey says:

    Who gets added with Melky+Igawa+? for a superstar haha

  27. PaaakmaaaN says:

    good work by cashman…

    Now the question is….who hits leadoff???? Jeter or Granderson…

    We also got to sign Andy Pettitte, and Matsui/Damon on of the two, and were set for 2010:)

    • ABS says:

      You’re kidding, right? Look at Granderson’s OBP last year, and ask that question again.

      • ColoYank says:

        I was just doing that, and I’m not fond of the idea of slotting him in second, either.

      • Look at Granderson’s OBP last year, and ask that question again.

        Counterargument: His OBPs the two years BEFORE last year are solid. .361, .365.

        • Ghost of Scott Brosius says:

          Exactly. The Yankees are betting that last year was a statistical outlier, and that Granderson had a bad year and not a nose-dive. Considering he was only 28 last year, not typically an age where you start a rapid decline in skill, I don;t think it’s a bad bet.

          • Ted Nelson says:

            Fair point, but shouldn’t you get a discount when you’re taking a risk? If Granderson reverts to form the Tigers did them a favor, if he keeps up his 2009 numbers the Yankees did them a HUGE favor by eating his salary through 2012…

            Maybe the Yankees in fact wanted to trade major league ready prospects they aren’t high on to clear spots on the 40 man roster, but it just seems like there’s a lot of value you can get from major league ready prospects from teams having a fire sale. Since Jackson has the potential to be better than Granderson and the Yankees included 2 young arms, I’m not thrilled.

    • Klemy says:

      I almost expect some juggling to occur in that respect. If Grandy bounces back this season he’s a valid leadoff option, though Jeter is solid there too. It’s a great problem to have!

  28. Reggie C. says:

    Best part of this deal? NO MORE ipk / melky trade scenarios.

  29. Mike Pop says:

    Who said IPK had no value!

  30. PaaakmaaaN says:

    Just look at our outfield now…

    Melfky- LF
    Granderson- CF
    Swisher- RF

    2/3 can hit 30 homeruns… this is what the yankees were missing all these years a power hitting outfielder

    • anon says:

      I dont think Melky can put up the numbers needed at a corner outfield position. His offense is passable at a position like CF because of the defense that is required of the position. They still need to sign an offensive asset to play LF

      • ColoYank says:

        Named Johnny Damon, perhaps.

      • pat says:

        When you’re getting 30+ HR from CF the need for a big bat in one of the corners is nullified. That’s what makes Granderson so appealing. Granderson in CF and Melk in LF is pretty much bthe same as Melk in CF and Damon in LF except the first one is much, much better defensively.

      • sciorsci says:

        The whole “numbers needed at a corner outfield position” is such a fallacy when considered in this context. Doesn’t Granderson put up numbers that would be acceptable for a corner OF? (hint: yes) Didn’t Melky put up numbers that were adequate enough for the Yankees to win the WS last season? (hint: yes) So if you’re ok with having them both in the lineup, shouldn’t you base your defensive alignment on defense and your offensive lineup on offense?

        Don’t get me wrong, I’m still hoping that they bring back Damon in a LF/DH combo role, but I just don’t like the flaccid “numbers needed at a corner outfield position” argument because the idea of numbers required at certain positions is based largely around having average production at other positions. In other words, so long as the Yankees are getting superior offensive production from other traditionally non-slugger positions (C, SS, 2B, CF), they can carry someone like Melky, even in a corner OF role.

        I hope Damon comes back – it makes the team that much stronger – but they can play that negotiation on their own terms now.

  31. Alright, let’s play fantasy manager here.

    I think there are a few permutations we could see:
    LF: Cabrera
    CF: Granderson
    DH: Damon

    LF: Damon
    CF: Granderson
    DH: Matsui

    LF: Granderson
    CF: Cameron
    DH: Damon OR Matsui OR outside hire.

    Which do you guys think will wind up happening? I’d like #3 a lot.

  32. Scott Lagano says:

    I’m not a big fan of this trade, basically we gave up Austin Jackson, Phil Coke and Ian Kennedy for Curtis Granderson. I don’t mind parting with Coke and Kennedy but Jackson is the real deal. Granderson may have speed but his batting avg last year was garbage. He is also not as great in Center as people think. Does anyone remember the 2 fly balls to center the last week of the season that Granderson misplayed and cost the Tigers a trip to the postseason. I think this trade was uneccessary. Should have left well enough alone. Everyone dogs Melky, but I will take .280/15/75 out of my #9 hitter in a lineup. This trade will backfire for the Yanks

    • AJ says:

      I prefer the .250/30/71 with the 20SB.

    • Granderson may have speed but his batting avg last year was garbage.

      A) There’s more to a player than just batting average
      B) There’s more to Curtis Granderson than just his batting average from 2009
      C) There’s evidence that his 2009 batting average was depressed by plain ol’ bad luck and/or a poorly altered plate approach, two things that will either regress to the mean or be fixed with proper coaching

      He is also not as great in Center as people think. Does anyone remember the 2 fly balls to center the last week of the season that Granderson misplayed and cost the Tigers a trip to the postseason.

      Large samples >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> small samples. Two badly played balls during one week of one season that you vividly remember in your mind does not make Granderson a poor defensive centerfielder. He’s quite good.

      • Evil Empire says:

        TSJC, sounds like you like the move.

        I know I do.

        • I was always against trading for Granderson when the deal included one of Joba or Hughes.

          Getting him for AJax and IPK is palatable. I’ll miss AJax a lot, because he’s a full 7 years younger than Granderson, but AJax also had some legit concerns about his bat, so I can see why we sold on him.

          • Evil Empire says:

            Eww, yeah for Joba or Hughes I’d be fucking furious. But I’m rather pleased. Yankees look to get net value in the trade the way I see it.

            Its not going to be the megadeal of ridiculous impactfulness that ESPN will make it out to be, but its a solid move.

            And something tells me John Kruk will like it for us. Not sure if that’s a good thing or a bad thing.

    • Bob Stone says:

      I’m trying to like this trade but I agree with you. Coke,Austin and IPK are just too much for Granderson. Perhaps I am too emotionally attached to “OUR” guys but my gut tells me this is not a good trade for the future. It might work well for 2010 and maybe 2011 but after that I think this trade will be viewed as a bust for the Yankees.

  33. anon says:

    I still think they need to sign Damon… Melky is not a LF, the production you just gained in CF will be lost in LF is Melky there

  34. MS says:

    I still hope we sign Damon as DH and sometimes fill in for the outfield. He is still a clutch hitter and we can use Granderson in the 9 spot. Plus, I like Melky better in left field with his descent arm. Hate to see AJax go, but honestly I only knew what I read about him or saw in highlight clips.

  35. vin says:

    Hello, New Yankee Stadium! Granderson will be Damon 2.0

    • whozat says:

      Or, he’ll do what Giambi did and give up the rest of his offensive game in favor of trying to put everything in the RF seats. And he doesn’t have the batting eye to do that.

      There’s upside to this deal, but there’s downside too. Granderson could continue his slide, falling in love with the homer. Or, the Yanks could get him back to using more of the field and he could rebound in a big way.

      We’ll see :-)

    • Bob Stone says:

      That graph helps me like the trade a little bit but not enough.

  36. Kiersten says:

    I like it. I think IPK will be a solid 3/4 starter for some other team (lucky for him, that team’s in the NL West), but I wasn’t sold on him being successful in NY.
    Sucks to lose AJax, but he has the potential to become what Granderson is now, so I don’t see much of a loss there. Although he has a cooler nickname. Can’t wait for all the “Grandys” coming from Girardi.

  37. A.D. says:

    I’m not a big Granderson fan, and not as excited as some to get him. But I’m good with the trade because I believe they got value in the deal. Basically I feel the Yanks could wait, and potentially (not that they would) trade Granderson for something we couldn’t trade Coke, IPK, and AJAX for.

  38. Reggie C. says:

    Don LaGrecca(?) (WFAN) sounds like a big fan of the deal.

  39. I just hit a HR w/Ajax in MLB ’09.


  40. Raf says:

    i think losing Kennedy as SP depth next season kinda stinks. other than that, good deal for Cash.

    • That’s a good point.

      We’re gonna need someone like Justin Duchscherer even more now.

    • Januz says:

      I happen to LOVE this trade. IPK was NEVER one of my favorite Yankees (I remember his rotten attitude in 2008). Coke was a servicable lefthander out of the bullpen (I remember how uncomfortable he was about closing, so not a lot of upside). Losing Jackson may very well hurt, but you have to give something to get something.
      As for Granderson, he is only 29 years old, and he has power, and speed. I agree he does not hit lefthanders well (But how many teams have left handed starters that scare anyone?). Assuming the fact, he will hit second, you can throw in the fact that he is surrounded by Jeter, and Teixeira, and Rodriguez hitting cleanup, you can bet he will get a lot more fastballs to hit in the Yankee lineup. Finally, this guy is supposed to be a good guy in the clubhouse (So they are not bringing in a Milton Bradley-type cancer).
      Finally, it gives the Yankees more leverage with Damon/Boras, when it comes to his contract demands, while holding on to the most important prospects (Montero, Hughes, Joba & Romine).

  41. Reggie C. says:

    Okay … so now which prospect cracks the Yankees top 10 prospects list? I’d love to see Mike’s revised list later today? No rush tho.

    • king of fruitless hypotheticals says:

      Okay … so now which prospect cracks the Yankees top 10 prospects list? I’d love to see Mike’s revised list later today? No rush tho.


  42. Neon Noodle says:

    Have any teams made this official? I’m on board with not liking this trade. Not sure how IPK and Jackson will turn out, but I like their potential better than getting a guy who has been trending worse for the last 2 years, ending this year with an exactly league average OPS+ of 100.

    • AndrewYF says:

      Do these people follow the Yankees? Did they not see what happened with Nick Swisher? Granderson’s career is very good. One year overrides all of that?

      • Zack says:

        It’s not 1 year, it’s a downward trend. Plus his inability to hit LHP.

        Nothing wrong with pointing out a player’s flaws or having concern

      • whozat says:

        No. but Swisher’s bad year looked almost entirely BABiP driven, and it was a one-year outlier. Granderson’s been on a downward trend, especially against lefties. It could be an approach thing, and that could be fixed…but it could also NOT get fixed and he could wind up being useless in every game against Lester, Price, Romero, Kazmir, etc. I’d love it if they got Cameron to add another righty bat to the lineup.

  43. John says:

    just imagine if damon re-signs.
    Jeter SS
    Damon DH
    Teix 1B
    A-Rod 3B
    Posada C
    Granderson CF
    Cano 2B
    Swisher RF
    Cabrera LF

    • king of fruitless hypotheticals says:

      Jeter SS
      Teix 1B
      A-Rod 3B
      Posada C
      Matsui DH
      Granderson CF
      Cano 2B
      Swisher RF
      Cabrera LF

    • vin says:

      Damon and Matsui…

      Jeter SS
      Damon LF
      Teix 1B
      A-Rod 3B
      Matsui DH
      Posada C
      Granderson CF
      Cano 2B
      Swisher RF

      Murderer’s Row.

    • Doug says:

      isn’t that the same lineup as this year, except granderson instead of matsui

    • Rose says:

      Screw Damon…you get Matsui now. Our outfield is somewhat set…unless you want to get Cameron to offsight the entire outfield being awful against lefties. Otherwise, you grab Matsui for DH. Melky is in LF.

      That way we’re the same team with a younger faster better Granderson instead of Damon…

      Not Granderson instead of Matsui…

      • Bob Stone says:

        I agree.

      • sciorsci says:

        I’d prefer Damon to Matsui just because I’d feel more comfortable with Damon’s OBP skills in the #2 spot and let Granderson hit lower in the lineup. I know he spent a lot of time as the leadoff man in Detroit, but in my eyes, he could be a solid #6 guy with power to support good RBI opportunities as well as the speed to reset the table for the bottom of the order.

        I think trying to keep Damon and Matsui is overdoing it, but that was the case even before acquiring Granderson. I think we all suspected that it was going to likely be one or the other. I’d like to see this lineup in 2010:

        Jeter SS
        Damon LF/DH
        Teixeira 1B
        Rodriguez 3B
        Posada C/DH
        Granderson CF
        Cano 2B
        Swisher RF
        Cabrera(/Cervelli) LF(/C)

        Damon would play left when Posada (or anyone else besides Damon) is DHing, with Cervelli occupying the “scrappy #9 hitter” role when Posada isn’t behind the dish.

  44. I love having Granderson but I HATE losing both IPK and A-Jax. We can forget trading for Halladay now. Toronto will ask for Joba/Hughes & Montero and there is no way CASH will give up our top 2 (3 if you count IPK) prospects in the same offseason. Looks like we will be going the free agent route for another starter. I hope we sign Lackey but more than likely we’ll be seeing Harden, Sheets, or the Duke in pinstripes next year.

  45. miketotheg says:

    so i guess we are letting go of johnny damon?

    i’ll never forget screaming my ass off when he stole those two bases on a tex AB. balls to the wall.

  46. Mike bk says:

    can we put dunn back in and take schlereth instead?

  47. Andy in Sunny Daytona says:

    Now sign any 2 combo of Matsui, Damon or Cameron. Melky goes to the revered 4th outfielder spot, and Brett the Jet lands in Scranton.

    Yay, Cash Money Trillionaire.

    • Heh, +1 to all of this.

    • Tom Zig says:

      3 Ws (dot) C-H-A-Millionaire (dot) com

    • I’m with you 100%, but Brett wouldn’t go to Scranton, he’d stay with the big club.

      13-man position player Opening Day Squad:


      • Andy in Sunny Daytona says:

        Scranton needs a hero!

      • king of fruitless hypotheticals says:

        who is that bench dude?

        Aren’t we missing an IF with that roster?

        and, from the ‘its-not-my-money’ file, why not trade leche or landscaper and make Matsui the DH with Damon or Cameron the 4th OF? i mean, if money has no object… :)

        what’s the major drawback (besides $) to Matsui and Damon-Granderson-Swisher with Melky?

        How much cheaper would we get Damon now that we don’t ‘need’ him? OR will Boras make him go somewhere else?

  48. Rose says:

    I’m still wondering why the Diamondbacks were so adament about doing this trade. I’m confused. It seems like they got the worst of the deal and they were the originators of it all.

    Tigers made out pretty handsomely though.

    I’d say the order of winners in this are Tigers, Yankees, D’backs.

  49. eegradstudent says:

    I think the rule 5 pickup the Yanks will get from the Nats will make this look like a better trade. I am guessing we pickup a LHP to replace Coke in the pen.

  50. Reggie C. says:

    So does this qualify as a fire – sale on the part of the Tigers? What’s the chances that the Tigers are putting Miggy Cabrera on the block now?

  51. BklynJT says:

    A lot of Tiger fans are loving the deal, mainly cause they sold high on Granderson. I don’t like the sound of that… Hopefully this is not the Xavier Nady trade part 2.

  52. radnom says:

    1. Jeter SS
    2. Johnson DH
    3. Tex 1B
    4. Arod 3B
    5. Damon LF
    6. Granderson CF
    7. Posada C
    8. Cano 2B
    9. Swisher RF

    • We can’t have both Damon and Johnson. You have to remember we need to sign a free agent pitcher also.

      • Says who? And why? The only FA pitchers to be signed would be depth moves anyway.

      • radnom says:

        Why exactly?

        This trade does not cost much for next year and I think prior to the trade it was reasonable to assume the Yankees would sign two bats to replace Damon and Matsui.

        Although they might not now, but that doesn’t mean they can’t.

        • sciorsci says:

          I’m not sure that it was ever a given they would sign two bats. There has been a lot of talk about using the DH spot as a place to rotate their aging players through to keep them in the lineup offensively but give them a break in the field. I think they’d like to keep Damon or Matsui (and I think they still would like to keep one of the two), which makes Granderson more of an upgrade over Melky than a replacement of Damon.

      • You have to remember we need to sign a free agent pitcher also.


        His name is Andy Pettitte, and he’s gonna take a 1/12ish.

    • Dirt says:

      1. Jeter SS
      2. Johnson DH
      3. Tex 1B
      3. Arod 3B
      5. Cameron CF
      6. Posada C
      7. Granderson LF
      8. Cano 2B
      9 Swisher RF

      I would also be happy with Damon DHing

  53. nathan says:

    gave up too much, would have loved to see AJax come thru and develop in NY… totally conflicted on IPK… I hope this means no Damon… time to get younger.. bite the bullet and go with Gardbrera in LF.. cant have the best everywhere… or i will never believe that the word ‘budget’ exists in thir dictionary

  54. dino says:

    this is a total coup for the yanks

  55. Justin(Raleigh) says:

    What do you guys think of signing a guy like Dye? He seems like he could be a good candidate to play left and provide even more pop to the lineup. Then all you need after that is Andy coming back and we would be all set. You could also DH Dye if you needed to. Thoughts. Maybe im just a greedy Yankee fan but Andy and Dye seem like a good fit to fill out that DH/pitching problem.

  56. Nady Nation says:

    Grandy 2010 = Swisher 2009. Book it.

    • radnom says:

      I’m all aboard on this.

    • Neon Noodle says:

      This, is what I am hoping for. I can’t agree with the book it, but that there’s a chance makes the trade better than I felt 10 minutes ago.

      • Nady Nation says:

        I’ve seen some of your comments above. I don’t think “regressing” is a fair way to assess Granderson’s past few seasons, mainly for this reason: In 2007, he exploded for a 135 OPS+. In 2008, he “regressed” to a 123 OPS+. As far as I’m concerned, when you’re regressing to a 123 OPS+, I’m not going to be upset. 2009 was really the only year that he’s struggled. Which gives me confidence that it was an isolated down year and he should be able to elevate his performance back to ’07, ’08 levels.

        (Yes, I’m aware of his LHP splits. My retort would be, even with those splits, he still had 135 and 123 OPS+’s in ’07 and ’08 respectively as a CF. I’ll take that.)

    • Grandy 2010 = Swisher 2009. Book it.

      Really, though, when you think about it:

      Grandy 2010 = Damon 2009. Book it. He’ll take HUGE advantage of that friendly porch and put up a nice offensive line, even if his LHP split isn’t pretty. But, he’ll be doing it from CF, and with sterling defense.

  57. jp says:

    i would like if the yanks resigned matsui now that it looks like granderson is in cf… damon would have taken his share of DH days and now you wont need to rotate at DH as much and matui will have a bigger role. as far as LF goes i may be the only one left who likes gardener over melkey but i like speed.

  58. The Three Amigos says:

    Granderson should be getting a visit from Kevin Long shortly.

  59. Mike bk says:

    fangraphs analysis:

    loves the deal for us, good for tigers and awful for d-backs.

    “From the Yankees perspective, this deal is almost too good to be true. Heading into his age 29 season, Granderson is a legitimate +4 win center fielder signed to a bargain contract for the next four years. I ranked him as the 22nd most valuable asset in terms of trade value in baseball over the summer, and the Yankees are getting him for a variety pack of role players. He instantly makes their team better, giving them a legitimate all-star center fielder who should thrive in Yankee Stadium. For as much as the Yankees have a payroll advantage, they continue to win because Brian Cashman targets the right players. Granderson is a fantastic acquisition for them.”

  60. Andrew S. says:

    If Granderson hits .249 next year, where does that get us? I know, I know, he hit 30 HR… but assuming he leads off or hits second a .249 BA .329 OBP won’t cut it. Dudes only hit .300 once…

    We’ve been waiting for AJax for so long now *POOF* gone. And everyone is in love with our new stud in town…

    Not sure if this is a win for the Yanks…

    • radnom says:

      Yes, if Granderson only hits at his career low points for the rest of his career then its not that great of a deal.
      Why would you assume that is what is going to happen?

      The Yankees obviously see some potential in this guy and he is entering his prime years. Yeah, they have to pay a bit more, but this guy is essentially what they wish Ajax could be. They are just paying a little extra money to guarantee a player of that caliber, and getting him in his prime right now.

    • Mike bk says:

      if you want to talk about .249 BA you have to consider the fact he was only .276 BABIP which is 40 pts lower than his career average, pick that back up to around .315 which is more than reasonable and he is a .275 hitter.

      on the flip side A-Jax .300/.354/.405 at SWB but his BABIP was .390 which is obscene. Take him down to just a .345 BABIP (still well above avg) and he is a .270 hitter.

  61. dkidd says:

    the only thing that gives me pause is why is detroit trading a guy with such a team-friendly contract? whatever, granderson should hit 35 hrs in ys3 and by all accounts is a hard worker/good teammate

    i hope this doesn’t preclude bringing damon back. i would sign damon to be the primary dh and bat second. when jorge dh’s (30+ games hopefully), damon rests or plays left

    • jsbrendog says:

      detroit has soo much money tied up in miggy, dontrelle willis, bonderman, robertson, and theyre gonna have to pony up for verlander. they traded their two most marketable assets to bring in cost controlled replacements. ajax will be there in a yr or 2 and be there for awhile and for cheap and the y got 2 pitchers who can start/relieve for them now when they will get nothing and/or not want what they get from willis, bonderman/robertson.

      for them this worked out amazingly. now they prob have a little breathing room to fill out a roster with quality backups/one mroe mlb starting caliber player and nto go bankrupt. and now, they can pony up for verlander long term and mryankee will weep

      • Steve H says:

        Agreed. There is plenty of reason for why the Tigers made this trade. The D-Backs, on the other hand, not sure what they’re doing.

        • Mike bk says:

          the tigers got two excellent arms for 11 cost controlled years a future cf for 6 and coke for 5, excellent deal for them long term.

        • Mike Pop says:

          Feel like something’s missing.

          • sciorsci says:

            What’s missing is the fact that you’re not considering that the current economic situation in Detroit is similar to a third-world nation. They tried to be a pillar of the community in 2009, but Ilitch can’t just bankroll red numbers forever. They need to bear down and prepare for a few years of down attendance and down revenue.

      • dkidd says:

        forgot about the looming verlander signing. it’s still tough to wrap my brain around the fact that having a bunch of bad contracts means having to trade away your only great one

        because i like ajax/coke/ipk and jackson, this is one of those deals i hope works out for all 3 teams (as long as ajax holds off on league domination until 2012 or later)

    • A.D. says:

      Its team friendly, but not super cheap overall. I.e. whomever has Granderson is getting value in terms of production vs salary, but still has to pay him 8m+ per year 11-13, and the Tigers have a budget that already includes a ton of terrible contracts.

  62. Mister Delaware says:

    So anyone worried about Scherzer or IPK’s medicals or are we all assuming this one is going through as is?

  63. Salty Buggah says:

    Holy fuck! This is happening? I have to wake up earlier this week so I don’t miss any Hot Stove action.

  64. Mike Pop says:

    He has to be the CF unless they sign Mike Cameron, right?

  65. dark1p says:

    I just can’t understand why they didn’t go after an outfielder who can hit. We have outfielders who are fast and can’t hit.

    Wonder what Bernie is doing next year….

  66. So now that we lost 2 of our most valuable trade chips. Who do you think our free agent starter will/should be?

    1. Sheets
    2. Lackey
    3. Harden
    4. Duchscherer
    5. Bedard
    6. None of the above

  67. Rey22 says:

    Wow, very impressive haul for the Tigers IMO.

  68. The Three Amigos says:

    Detroit is clearly unloading their people… If they are trying to rebuild, it seems a Miggy Cabrera trade is next.

    • jsbrendog says:

      they weren’t unloading their people. they were unloading their best trade chips that wouldnt cripple the team but would allow for other needs. scherzer will replace edwin jackson fine, they added 2 bullpen pieces after losing rodney and lyon,and all three pitchers they got are league minimum. They added a comp for granderson who is also league minimum and by freeing up that money they can afford to pony up for verlander and continue to bite the bullet on dontrelle willis, bonderman, robertson, and anyone else they are paying who sucks.

    • Mike bk says:

      that is the beauty of this deal for detroit because it saves them 10 mil this year and they lose a bunch of payroll in a year with Ordonez, Bonderman, Willis, Robertson, Inge (59.1 million) all coming off the books after ’10 and having replaced a couple of those spots in this deal with upside cost controlled players.

  69. Mike bk says:

    any chance the option now if you have damon leverage would be sign 2 of damon, cammy, matsui and deal melky to someone like the cubs?

  70. MattG says:

    70% of people in the RAB chat either don’t like the deal, or don’t really care.

    That’s a lot of love for Austin Jackson, Ian Kennedy, and Phil Coke. I don’t get that.

    The plan is coming together:

    1. retain Pettitte–almost there
    2. trade Jackson+ for Granderson, check.
    3. unload Melky or Gardner
    4. sign Cameron
    5. pickup Murton or equivalent
    6. sign one of Damon or Matsui as cheaply as possible

  71. [...] physicals, the Yankees have apparently agreed to a three-team trade todaywith Arizona and the Tigers. They filled the void in center by acquiring Curtis Granderson, but [...]

  72. ADam says:

    I guess Granderson comes relatively cheap, basically 3 yrs 25 Mill on the books… Have to hope he improves against lefties… and does he bat second in the order behind DJ?

    Not crazy about giving up on IPK mostly… was really hoping to see him contribute this year.

  73. Mike Pop says:

    Drew sheds a tear.

  74. pete says:

    the only thing i dislike about this is the LHP splits. Love the lefty power in YSIII, love the very good defense (career-wise). In the worst year of his career (swish had a terrible year at roughly the same time in his career, so I’m not too worried about him suddenly not being a good player), he was as good as melky was in the best year of his (admittedly at age 24, but also during a season in which the presence of brett gardner and girardi’s careful production-maximizing style of management probably helped his numbers). We know, based on what he’s done in the majors in previous years, that Granderson’s capable of something along the lines of 115OPS+, +10 UZR, neither of which has ever been attained by melky.
    That said, I had an idea that might not ring nicely with a lot of other people here, but what would you think of an outfield of (left to right) Granderson/Cameron/Melky, with Swish at DH? I know it makes more sense historically to have a better bat in RF than melky’s, but I don’t think it’s unreasonable to expect Melky to play superb defense in right, and put up roughly league-avg offensive numbers for the next few years. It’s unconventional, but it could turn the yanks OF for 2010 into something close to a +25 machine, with a collective 105-110 OPS+. If you consider the wayyyy above average offense the yankees get at every position in the infield, having three hitters not that far above league average in the bottom of your order would not be the worst thing in the world, considering the defensive upgrade.
    It doesn’t work as well as a long-term solution, considering the impending decline of Mike Cameron, but for 2010, you’d be getting solid offense and excellent defense at a very good price for your outfield, not to mention having a DH who, unlike damon/matsui, could fill in at either corner position and provide roughly league-avg. defense. I would still say that a lineup of
    Jeter SS
    Swisher DH
    Tex 1B
    A-Rod 3B
    Posada C
    Cano 2B
    Granderson LF
    Cameron CF
    Melky RF

    would get the job done offensively (somewhere in the neighborhood of 850 runs), while improving the defense by something in the neighborhood of 30 runs, which could be boosted further by defensive rebounds from A-Rod and Cano and (controversy alert) Tex. Thoughts?

  75. dch says:

    Great trade. Look Kennedy while one of our best prospects is not in the Hughes/Joba strata. His ceiling is probably a #3 pitcher. A-Jack hurts but by the time he is in the league making a real difference-late 2011 maybe 2012. This trade improves our defense, saves money vis a vis Damon, improves our team’s chances of a repeat while the Old Guard core is still with us. Now we can resign Matsui or hell we can use this as leverage to resign both Matsui and Damon to 1 year deals. Basically, the same lineup with Granderson for Melky and Melky gets a whole bunch of at bats as the 4th OF. Now lets get Pettite on board and sign Sheets.

  76. BklynJT says:

    To those completely ecstatic about the trade, what do you think of the declining CF defense and splits against lefties?

    • pete says:

      granderson’s D isn’t really “declining” – really i think he just had an off UZR year last year. I think he is probably around a +5-+10 defender.

    • Keanu Reeves says:

      I was concerned, but as JMK pointed out last night, he’s been playing the massive outfield at Comerica alongside Magglio Ordonez and Carlos Guillen. And he still managed a positive UZR rating this past season.

      I don’t think there’s as much to worry about there.

      • A.D. says:

        he’s been playing the massive outfield at Comerica alongside Magglio Ordonez and Carlos Guillen. And he still managed a positive UZR rating this past season.

        OF size & who he’s playing with doesn’t impact his UZR.

        • Keanu Reeves says:


          Even if I take the UZR part of my comment away, the point is still that playing in smaller park, along side say, Swisher and Cabrera, or Swisher and Cameron, should help his defense.

    • ledavidisrael says:

      Defense is always swaying. The fact that he has performed well on defense means he has the body type and talent to do it again. Look @ Mike Cameron. from 04-07 he produced one + URZ season. And he rebounded to become a double digit defender. This is trade is good money.

  77. Free Mike Vick says:


  78. LosingOurHeads says:

    what about garbrera?

  79. Rob says:

    We have to remember that Detroit’s ballpark and YSIII are two different beasts. That helps.

  80. Oz says:

    Like a few people, I have reservations about this trade – it seems a pretty high price to pay for Granderson given how high they seemed to be on Jackson.

    Jackson’s numbers in AAA this year were similar to Granderson’s (ignoring the HR totals) in 2005, but Granderson was 2 years older when he hit that level.

    I know that can’t really be used to predict Big League performance, but I can’t help thinking we’ve just traded Granderson mark II for the original model, whilst also giving up a useful rotation/bullpen piece in IPK.

    • A.D. says:

      ignoring the HR totals

      Which is the biggest problem with AJAX game.

      • Oz says:


        However, at age 22 Granderson hit 11HR in a full season of A+ ball.

        At age 20, Jackson hit 10HR in half a season of A+.

        Not saying that Jackson WILL develop power, just that at 22 years old I’m not willing to give up on the fact that it still has time.

        • Chip says:

          Thing is, Granderson turned into a best-case scenario. That’s very rare, you can’t assume AJax follows the same path. If he does, he turns into Granderson anyways

          • Oz says:

            I agree to a point, although I think that assessment still undervalues where Jackson is now, in relation to where players his age generally are.

            If Granderson’s best case was to develop to where he is now from hitting AAA at 24 I think Jackson’s best case is potentially higher.

            But I’m also a sucker for over-valuing Yankee prospects! :)

            I think Granderson is a good siging, I’m just sorry that it took Jackson to get it done.

            • Bo says:

              How do u ignore the HR totals when comparing Granderson???

              You going to ignore Jeters hit totals when comparing him to SS’s?

              • Oz says:

                Because I was comparing his AAA season to that of Jacksons’ and discussing how the development of both players might compare.

                So comparing Jeter’s hit totals to other SS’s doesn’t even make sense in that context.

  81. JohnC says:

    Yanks are hoping Kevin Long can work some of his magic on Granderson as far as his hitting better vs. lefties.

  82. Chip says:

    For those of you seriously concerned about this trade, keep this in mind.

    Granderson’s 2009 line on the road- .267/.345/.516

    Now keep in mind that 2009 is the worst season in Granderson’s career and that YSIII is awesome for left-handed pull hitters.

  83. Hey ZZ says:

    Ya know what is funny?

    The Yankees were supposed to be quiet this winter and once again they are the talk of the town at the winter meetings.

  84. Mike Pop says:

    Oh how I’ll miss Phil Coke.

  85. I have mixed feelings about the trade. I thought Jackson was their top prospect? Maybe he’s not progressing the way they had hoped.

    • Chip says:

      Jackson was their second-best prospect next to the man-beast that is Jesus Montero. Granderson>>>>AJax in terms of upside and current production

    • Steve H says:

      Top prospect?

      Nope, meet Jesus Montero.

      And even though he’s a loooong way away, it sounds like Slade Heathcott has more upside than Jackson, but obviously much less of a sure thing.

      What makes this trade work is Granderson’s age, for the next 3 years he should outproduce A-Jax, and then they Yankees figure it out from there down the line.

  86. Mike HC says:

    In Cashman I trust!

    I don’t see this as such a steal though. I guess I see it as a fair deal. I liked Ajax and having a guy like him play outfield on the cheap while we used Granderson’s money to go toward another player. You could have ended up with two impact players, plus Kennedy too.

    But, I guess you can’t pass up a +4 win 29 year CF when you don’t have to give up any sure bet prospects, just one projected to be above average and still needs time.

    It will be fun to watch Granderson play for Yanks. That is for sure.

    • Mike HC says:

      The big concern is the lefty splits though. When teams through the lefty specialist at him every time he hits from the 7th inning on, he may be a liability in crunch time, let alone when a lefty starts the game.

    • Mike HC says:

      Another advantage is that with Granderson only making 5.5 million this year and only 8.5 next year, it also allows the Yanks to maybe sign someone to a large(r) one or two year deal they might not have otherwise done.

      Overall, this deal helps the Yanks immensely the next two years, when we get Granderson on the cheap and AJax and IPK still developing and going through growing pains.

      After those two years it gets a bit more murky. If AJax and IPK start producing, and Granderson gets paid either 12 million for one, or 23 million for two, then it might swing out of our favor. That does not even take into account the extra years of production AJax and IPK would give under team control.

  87. MattG says:

    With AJax gone, and Granderson’s salary a known quantity, the Yankees are now free to offer Cameron two years if they want to.

    Put Cameron and Granderson in the OF, and you can play 5 infielders.

    OK, so that’s a little exaggeration.

  88. Charlie says:

    fuck no. i can’t watch this. i fucking love ajax. coke i dont care about. and ipk is just okay. but goddamn i really didnt want to lose ajax. granderson’s good, but still

  89. dkidd says:

    useless but fun comparison:

    granderson 2009 ops at comerica


    granderson 2009 ops at ys3


  90. Aj says:

    i hate following the farm and then they get traded! last year when we traded Tabats i was sad but this year i feel like it hurts more wait until A-jax becomes better than granderson. i heard comparisons of a-jax being compared to auston jackson. as long as the yanks farm is better than system im happy but its not so im not happy! does the yanks farm still rank in the middle now what do you think mike??

    • Chip says:

      You heard that A-jax might one day be as good as Austin Jackson? That’s high praise for a guy to be as good as himself. All kidding aside, I assume you meant Reggie Jackson and honestly Granderson has a lot more potential to turn into Reggie Jackson.

    • military vet says:

      auston jackson is good

      • Bo says:

        This guy is why you dont fall in love with prospects. Some people would rather see a worse player because he came thru the system.

  91. Jake H says:

    Good trade. You have to give up something to get something. I think next year Yanks will put more premium on position players since the system is lacking unless someone falls to them in the draft.

  92. Andrew S. says:

    Since when is batting .270 considered great?

    I mean… he might get a huge BA/HR boost from Yankee Stadium if fly balls at Tiger Stadium -or whatever it is these days- (Comerica?) become homeruns.

    I understand he’s in his prime, and he is what the Yanks want AJax to be, and he’s a good defender, hits for power etc etc… but he better actually hit. And I’m not bringing any fancy splits or statistics into this… no BA on balls in play, no home vs. road, vs. lefties, vs. righties… His BA OVERALL, the one that you see in the newspaper when they post the lineups, better be up near .300 (or at least a higher OBP)…especially if he’s hitting in the one or two hole.

    That being said, is this just an example of the Yankees being too impantient to wait for AJax to develop, or do they really see Granderson as an upgrade?

    • Mike Pop says:

      Jesus man. There is more to a player than his BA. Also – there is evidence to believe that this past season had a lot to do with bad luck.

      For the final time.

      • Steve H says:

        For the final time.

        Wishful thinking.

      • Andrew S. says:

        I know there’s more than BA that matters… but if he’s batting leadoff, or second, don’t you want him on base? One of his best assessts are his legs. He gets on more, he steals more, he scores more runs. That’s what we need him to do. We have other guys that can hit home runs for us, we don’t necessarily need him to go up there swinging for the fences- surely it will be tempting with the short porch. It might actually be damaging if he has that kind of mind set, but Girardi and Long probably won’t let him think that way…

        • pete says:

          i don’t want him batting second. damon or swisher would be much better in that spot. Grandy’s power/speed combination, out of the #7/#8 spot in the lineup, would be SICK.

        • Dirt says:

          Then couldn’t you just look at OBP? If you want him on base more…I realize it wasn’t great last year either, but still, being on base would seem to correspond to to OBP, not BA.

    • Since when is batting .270 considered great?

      It’s not and never has been. However, Curtis Granderson does other things aside from hit for contact that make him a valuable player.

      That being said, is this just an example of the Yankees being too impantient to wait for AJax to develop, or do they really see Granderson as an upgrade?

      Curtis Granderson is most definitely an upgrade over Jackson.

    • Chip says:

      Dude, last year their were only four center fielders in the league who hit .300+ and none of them had a third of the home runs that Granderson hit. That’s not fancy splits or statistics, you don’t need to hit .300 in order to be a superstar as long as you have power

    • MattG says:

      Maybe he was injured. A few leetches will fix him right up.

    • Mike HC says:

      They might consider Slade Heathcott better than AJ and Slade is not that much younger than AJax. Assuming the Yanks will only need one cost controlled outfielder, the other two coming from other means, the Yanks may not have really lost anything real on their future Major League roster.

      • Steve H says:

        But what’s the 1st part of that? Batting average of course. Must be the most important, that’s why it’s first. Just ignore the other 2.

  93. Tony says:

    Not saying it’s the plan, but if this means Melky is in a corner spot, the trade is bad. Period.

    • Not necessarily.

      I’m not a huge fan of Melky on a corner, but with a legit DH, that scenario is much more foreseeable.

    • Chip says:

      Yeah playing Chad Curtis in left field in 1998 really killed that team.

    • Tony says:

      If they didn’t actually upgrade the outfield, the trade is bad. They had very good DH and a better hitting OF last season… and it didn’t cost Austin Jackson to get them.

      • We have no evidence yet that this trade factors into the decisions made about LF or DH yet. Too soon to tell.

        • MattG says:

          We know they’d prefer to have Melky relegated to the bench. But there is a budget now, 29 other teams, and not an unlimited amount of options. I am sure they are working on Damon and Cameron.

      • Chip says:

        No, Damon was worth only 3.0 WAR last season (which was a career year and he’s getting old) while Granderson was a 3.4 WAR last season despite playing in a park that killed his offense, corner outfielders that make his defensive stats look worse and the fact that he’s signed for fairly cheap and in the middle of his peak years.

        This is an upgrade even if we play Melky in left.

        • Tony says:

          You can’t directly compare Granderson and Damon’s WARs. Give me a break, guy.

          Fact: Damon and Matsui are better hitters than Granderson.
          Fact: Melky Cabrera is barely adequate as a CF. He drops from there in a corner.
          Fact: Damon/Matsui didn’t cost Jackson/Kennedy/Coke.
          Fact: As it stands, Damon/Matsui/Coke/Kennedy/Jackson have been “traded” for Granderson.
          Fact: As it stands, that’s not a good “trade”

          • Fact: As it stands, Damon/Matsui/Coke/Kennedy/Jackson have been “traded” for Granderson.

            That’s just not how to analyze a trade properly. The Yanks turned two guys everyone overrates and Phil Coke into Curtis Granderson. Matsui and Damon have absolutely nothing to do with it.

            • Tony says:

              Everyone overrated Austin Jackson? He just netted a significant player didn’t he? Or is Granderson overrated? You can’t have it both ways.

              The question is whether Jackson the player or trade chip was worth expending here. My argument is that at the moment this is a downgrade, since we don’t have a LF or DH, and we lost two significant trade chips/depth pieces.

              • A.D. says:

                We’ll the Yankees have gained 20M+ in cash, which cannot be overshadowed.

              • My argument is that at the moment this is a downgrade, since we don’t have a LF or DH, and we lost two significant trade chips/depth pieces.

                Counterargument: The winter isn’t over; there’s plenty of LFs and DHs we can buy to fill those holes. You’re acting like this Granderson trade ends the pursuit of an LF or DH, and it just doesn’t yet. That’s a leap of logic you can’t do.

          • MattG says:

            Damn, we should’ve just signed Matsui and put him in CF. Cashman is a moron.

          • Chip says:

            Fact: You like to substitute opinion for fact and pass it off as a fact.

            Fact: You can’t assume that Damon will keep up his offense as he ages

            Fact: Damon is old

            Fact: Granderson is not

            Fact: Granderson’s numbers are awesome outside of Comerica Park

            Fact: You redefined the word “traded” and attempted to ignore that fact to cite a fact that is really an opinion

            Fact: Chicks dig the long ball

            Fact: Damon and Matsui WERE better hitters than Granderson LAST YEAR

            Fact: Matsui can’t play centerfield

            Fact: The Yankees COULD sign somebody else to play left field

            Fact: We’re hearing that Damon may want a 2 year deal

            Fact: Next year’s free agency class is studly

            Opinion: You’re overvaluing Jackson

            Opinion: Granderson will bounce back and be a stud next season

            • Tony says:

              Granderson/Melky in left or center is irrelevant. The point is that simply jettisoning Damon PLUS Jackson PLUS Kennedy PLUS Coke for Granderson doesn’t make sense. The AAAA spot needs to be improved upon or this is a dumb transaction in the short term and in the long term.

              • Chip says:

                I give up, you can’t base the success of the trade on what the team does in the future. If somebody signs Damon to a stupid big contract, this doesn’t mean it’s a bad trade. It’s still a good trade and somebody simply outbid us for Damon.

              • The point is that simply jettisoning Damon PLUS Jackson PLUS Kennedy PLUS Coke for Granderson doesn’t make sense.


                You can’t keep including that as fact when it’s not.

    • Mike bk says:

      scenario to kill ur idea. sign cameron.


      • Mike Pop says:

        A rotating DH maybe?

      • Tony says:

        Two things:

        1. I didn’t write “if they don’t re-sign Damon…” I wrote, “If Melky (who is barely competent as a CF, and would be a joke in a corner) is playing a corner, this is a bad trade.”

        2. I’ve seen nothing real to indicate the Yankees will be adding Cameron. In fact, I thought he was almost a given for the Cubs.

        • Mike bk says:

          then you dont read after the headlines get debunked cause the cameron to the cubs was debunked at least 3 times by sunday. they have soriano, bradley and fukudome’s big salaries and all the scenarios i have seen where they unload bradley they end up with burrell so not exactly removing a huge of salary or any salary at all really. maybe they send bradley to the mets and get castillo, but at that point the interest they had in melky would make more sense to the cubs saving some money.

        • Paul says:

          Can you explain to me how Melky becomes worse when playing a corner spot. I’m not aware of this rule that players become even worse when playing a corner outfield spot.

          Let’s forget about Melky for now, he was a full time outfielder last year, and as of now he is a full time outfielder this year.

          Basically you are filling the void Damon left with Granderson, which I think is great. But, to make it better. There is still the possibility of resigning Damon. I don’t see why it matters if Melky is in left, right, or center, any way his offense is going to be the same, and its not like he is an outstanding fielder who needs to be in center.

    • Not saying it’s the plan, but if this means Melky is in a corner spot, the trade is bad. Period.

      So, lemme get this straight:

      Scenario A: We trade AJax, IPK, and Coke for Granderson and put him in center. Melky slides to right. The trade is thus bad.

      Scenario A: We trade AJax, IPK, and Coke for Granderson and put him in left. Melky stays in center. The trade is thus… not bad?

      • Tony says:

        Holy failed logic, TSJCman!

        If you didn’t get AAAA Melky out of the lineup, you didn’t improve by “essentially” trading Damon and/or Matsui, IPK, Coke, and Austin Jackson for Granderson. That’s a horrible transaction.

        • Chip says:

          Actually, that’s not a horrible transaction. The fact that the Yankees haven’t resigned Damon and/or Matsui doesn’t mean they won’t. And if they don’t, it could be a precursor to signing Crawford or Mauer next season.

          Also, you don’t need to have a superstar at every position if you can play good defense and have a good starting rotation.

          • Tony says:

            I didn’t say this means they will or won’t sign Damon/Matsui. Try responding to what I wrote and not what you would have liked me to have written to ease your witty reply.

            Matsui/Damon/Melky/Swisher to ?/Melky/Granderson/Swisher is a pretty significant downgrade, and that’s before even mentioning the loss of Jackson, Coke or Kennedy.

            • Chip says:

              I’d have no problem signing Damon to be a DH and running Melky out into left field everyday.

              Also, you can’t know what the Yankees will do at either DH or LF yet. What you can know is that the Yankees just added an above-average CFer with good range and a ton of power who is cost-controlled for the next 4 years with the upside of a MVP candidate

            • I didn’t say this means they will or won’t sign Damon/Matsui.

              But that’s 100% what you implied.

              You said that if we didn’t sign one of Damon/Matsui/Cameron/whomever to play LF, thus keeping Melky out of the LF starting spot and back on the bench, than THIS trade for Granderson was a bad idea.

              You’re making the Granderson trade evaluation totally contingent on what happens with the Damon/Matsui/Cameron LF/DH situation.

            • A.D. says:

              But what actually happened was the offseason came, Damon and Matsui became free agents, and thus today was:

              Melky/Swisher/AJAX/Coke/IPK to Melky/Granderson/Swisher

              which in my opinion is an improvement.

              Of course if the Yankees sign no one else then yes the team has been downgraded from the year previous as Granderson/Miranda unlikely to replace production of Matsui/Damon/AJAX/IPK/Coke

              • Chip says:

                Exactly. And really, I don’t think Matsui/Damon/AJAX/IPK/Coke were likely to replace the production of Matsui/Damon/AJAX/IPK/Coke. Damon and Matsui are on the decline side of their careers and none of AJAX/IPK/Coke were likely to make huge contributions to the major league club (being a second lefty in the pen or a 6/7 starter aren’t huge contributions in my book)

        • If you didn’t get AAAA Melky out of the lineup, you didn’t improve by “essentially” trading Damon and/or Matsui, IPK, Coke, and Austin Jackson for Granderson.


          You’re accusing ME of failed logic, but you’re shitting on this trade for doing something it didn’t do and doesn’t logically preclude.

          Gimme a break, Tony.

          What ACTUALLY happened and what you claim “essentially” happened are not related.

          • Tony says:


            If you make a move and the idea is NOT to replace Melky, you simultaneously decided not to pursue Damon/Cameron/anyone else. That’s certainly a fair point to make.

            • Unless this deal wasn’t made specifically coupled to an idea of “we don’t need to replace Melky” like you’re portraying by including Damon/Matsui in the “essentially trading” concept.

              It was simply “This is a good deal that helps us; Granderson is a starting caliber CF. If we can get Damon/Cameron/someone at a rate we like, we’ll put them in LF, and if not, we’ll slide Melky over there and deal.”

      • MattG says:

        No, silly. He wants Damon back, or Cameron, or some such thing, in addition to Granderson.

        Cameron looks like an even better idea to me now.

  94. dch says:

    Guys like I referenced above- 3 years from now-Posada and Pettite will be gone. Maybe even Rivera-we will have a 38 year old Jeter and what 37 year old A-Rod-we have 2 years, tops, with the core and A-Rod.

    Offer Damon and Matsui-1 year deals. In 2011-move Jeter to LF

    • Mike Pop says:

      Yes but you’re not factoring in the emergence of the younger players and future free agent signings. This team – like the past 16 years, is going to be a perennial championship contender for a long time.

    • dkidd says:


      this move gives them the best chance to repeat. if ajax turns into a beast (and heathcott is a bust) we sign him in 2014!

  95. I wonder if Jackson will break camp with the Tigers.

    Good luck to him.

  96. BklynJT says:

    To those completely ecstatic about the trade, what do you think of the declining CF defense and splits against lefties? It seems that UZR values are pretty sporadic, so I’m just hoping that the downward trending UZR ratings on Granderson are just a statistical fluke.

  97. Marsha says:

    Hang on to your Save The Big 3 t-shirts. They are now officially collector items.

  98. MattG says:

    IPK needs to be replaced, no? I’m not all that comfortable with Nova/McAllister as the 6th starter.

    What is the status of Gaudin and Mitre?

    • Mike bk says:

      you were comfortable with IPK as the number 6?

      Gaudin is still under team control so he will go to arb. Ace is still here. Mitre they declined the option but will probably pick him back up. Also plenty of injury starters out there like the Ben Sheets of the world.

  99. Mike Pop says:

    Peter Gammons to leave ESPN according to MLBTR.

    He can’t take anymore of Yankees pwnage.

    • YankeeGaGa says:

      Good…I mean good bye.
      Now maybe I can watch ESPN again. Nah, when they get rid of that waste of human life Kruk, then maybe.Maybe.

  100. Bo says:

    Kennedy should have been moved 2 yrs ago. He is why you shouldnt fall in love with the youngsters.

    • Mike Pop says:

      No, because 2 years ago it would have been for Johan. Therefore that would mean no CC and quite possibly no 2009 World Series champs. Also, it just wasn’t the right trade to make at the time.

      This, this was the right trade to make at the time.

  101. 007 says:

    terrible trade for the yanks, we were the clear losers of this one!!
    on the flip side the d-backs and the tigers made out big time!!
    i rather had the better young cfs play every day in the outfield.
    well i guess you cant win every year!!!

  102. [...] Granderson has been traded to the New York Yankees for a handful of magic beans, according to River Ave Blues, a Yankees blog. The Tiger also sent Edwin Jackson to the Diamondbacks as part of the trade. In [...]

  103. Charlie says:

    the problem with this trade for me is I think they could have still won the W.S. next year with an OF of Damon/Gardbrera/Swisher. And in that scenario they’d stiill have a good CF prospect that could start out there at no cost for years.

  104. BklynJT says:

    Granderson HR scatter chart. Wonder how many fly ball outs would now be HRs in YS3.

  105. Guest says:

    Love this deal. Dunn might be ready to replace Coke next year as it is. Ganderson is 28 and incredibly cost controlled. Great leverage re: resigning Damon.

    Question: does this deal guarantee that we don’t resign matsui and damon? If that is not the case and we do resign them both, how about this potential lineup:

    1. Jeter
    2. Damon
    3. Tex
    4. ARod
    5. Matsui
    6. Posada
    7. Granderson
    8. Swisher
    9. Cano

    I dont see them resigning Matsui and Damon after this trade, but a fan can dream…

  106. pollo says:

    SoSH comment:

    <blockquote cite="
    Ian Kennedy. Could Theo even give away Michael Bowden at this point?"


  107. Guest says:

    Also, lets not forget that Granderson helped get us homefield advantage with that sick catch in the all star game!

  108. dkidd says:

    my gut says they’re still targeting damon or cameron

    i believe melky will be the 4th outfielder in 2010

  109. Mike bk says:

    prediction for curtis next year



    • Mike Pop says:

      I think he hits more than 25 home runs.

    • Reggie C. says:

      I think the slugging should be closer to .500.

      Granderson could leg out 10 triples easy.

    • Mac1 says:

      If he puts that triple slash out of the two hole, he’s gonna have closer to 100 rbi.

      I love the trade, especially if he gets his obp closer to 07/08 levels – give him 550 pa – 1/2 taking aim at the short porch in LF and he could be an absolute monster.

      Hope the defensive yips and 3 year downward trend are ameliorated by playing in YS which should be a better park both offensively and defensively for him.

    • Chip says:


      37 HR
      90 RBI

      I’m a huge optimist but the slash line is his career line away from Comerica.

  110. Charlie says:

    also, idk why everyone is thinking dunn can easily be the 2nd lefty next year. his control is awful and his command is nonexistent

  111. Marc says:

    Huge win for the Tigers on this trade.

  112. Charlie says:

    i was gonna buy an austin jackson shirt once he got his number. i guess i’ll never know what that would have been

  113. Bo says:

    This trade just means that now Matsui/Damon get to battle for one spot. And Bay/Holliday wont be using the Yankees for leverage unless the Yankees really love Holliday.

    • Reggie C. says:


      What do you think of Shifting Melky to LF, and signing Damon as the full-time DH. If Damon objects to the pay cut, we still got Delgado, Mats, and Thome available.

      • Tank the Frank says:

        Forget Damon. He wants too much. If you move Melky to LF then just sign Matsui. Then that leaves one less body for the DH spot with Damon gone.

  114. Jamie says:

    General question to all:

    How’s Grandy’s arm? Accurate? Strong? Weak?

    And have we all agreed on calling him Grandy?

  115. Ben S says:

    Sorry if it has already been asked but how many years are left on Granderson’s contract?

  116. Mike HC says:

    Scherzer is already 25 years old and his best season was a 4.12 era 1.34 whip in 170 innings in the NL West. That is not exactly the next coming of Roger Clemens. He may be getting overrated here.

    Edwin Jackson is only 10 months older than Scherzer and put a 3.62 era 1.26 whip in 214 innings in the AL Central.

    It seems like Edwin Jackson in the far superior pitcher and they get him plus IPK, a former first round pick whose value is at an all time low due to an injury plagued 2009. He will be a Major League pitcher. Seems like the DBacks did not come out as bad and Fangraphs made it seem.

  117. Hey ZZ says:

    Can anyone name a single prospect the Yankees have regretted trading?

    • Mac1 says:

      Willie McGee, Doug Drabek, Mike Lowell and Jay Buhner but I doubt I’ll be adding to the list from this trade.

      p.s. Fred Mc Griff

  118. pete says:

    i have never agreed with bo more than in this thread.

  119. Tank the Frank says:

    IMO…the Tigers got a fucking haul. They improved their bullpen (greatly), their rotation, made off with our top outfield prospect and dumped a good amount of payroll.

    Great move by the Tigers. I won’t even get in to the Yankees. If you’re excited about Curtis Granderson…more power to you. It’s been debated to death. The Yankees are taking a huge gamble. If Granderson continues his downward trend he’ll be increasingly difficult to move as his salary increases year-to-year. This has the potential to be a major bust for the Yankees.

    The right move would have been to re-sign Damon or Matsui with Cameron as a stop-gap in CF until we can figure out more accurately what AJax might accomplish at the ML level…then wait until the 2011 free agent class (hello Carl Crawford).

    But I digress….

    • Mac1 says:

      Its probably not a “huge” gamble for the Yanks (unless the Tigers know something no one else does). He’s a LHH in YS in a big time lineup.

      He’s owed a total of 25.75 mil – its not much different from the gamble they took on Swish.

      The upside however is pretty awesome, even a slight bump in obp makes him a pretty nice offensive player.

      • Tank the Frank says:

        The Tigers don’t know anything we all don’t know. It’s right there in his numbers. They are all over the place. The protractors of this trade point to the SSS of his 2009 season. Well he’s basically only had two good seasons with which to draw conclusions as well. The only consistency you can point to in his career is his power.

        And it’s much different than the Swisher trade b/c we gave up Wilson Betemit for him, not Austin Jackson +.

        The outcome of this trade depends on IF KLong can work with Granderson on his approach especially against LHP. That’s just a big IF for me, especially given the alternative I outlined above that I’m much more comfortable with.

        • Steve H says:

          The Tigers made this trade because they also got back Scherzer and Schlereth, of course they made the trade. It’s a great trade for the Tigers, a good trade for the Yankees, and a bad trade for the D-Backs.

    • Rose says:

      then wait until the 2011 free agent class (hello Carl Crawford).

      You’re worried about Curtis Granderson…but you’re excited about a much older and expensive Carl Crawford in 2011?


      • Charlie says:

        carl crawford is younger than granderson. and he wouldn’t have cost ajax + ipk/coke

        • MattG says:

          One year younger. He will cost $70M over 5 years, and he is not worth that. He’s a corner outfielder with a career .772 OPS. .800 or so in recent years. Why is that special?

          He does run fast and play great defense…but Granderson does that too.

          Giving up AJax is a tough pill to swallow, but doing so got a superior player and saved a ton of money. And that money will really come in handy if Mr. Mauer makes it to free agency.

          • Charlie says:

            why does everyone think that the yanks will go hard after joe mauer? I mean, obviously he’s one of the best hitters in baseball. But he’s got back problems so he might have to move from catcher. u don’t want to pay a DH a fuckload of money for 8-9 years. Also the yankees have a ton of depth behind the plate. if montero doesn’t make it, romine/higashoika/some other prospect will. joe mauer’s a monster, but he’s not really a great fit on the yanks

      • Charlie says:

        also, crawford has shown absolutely no signs of decline, while grandy has

    • Mike HC says:

      I agree with you. We could have signed Cameron for nothing. I guess the Yanks feel Granderson, who can be the CF for the next 4 years, is a far superior option to Cameron for one or two years.

      I probably would not have the balls to make this move, but you gotta trust Cashman. Maybe AJax and Kennedy and just not that good and never will be.

    • Charlie says:

      agree mostly, but i don’t think granderson is quite as much of a gamble as you think

    • MattG says:

      I just want to say:

      Granderson >>> Crawford


      Crawford’s contract will be >>> Granderson

      Carl Crawford is as overrated as Granderson has become underrated.

      • Tank the Frank says:

        I disagree. He stole 60 bases last season. The only place Granderson has him beat is power, and it’s not like Crawford couldn’t knock 20+ playing at YSIII. Like I said that’s the only consistent tool Granderson has shown in his career. Crawford has been much more consistent and is the better player.

        Granderson’s WAR has been all over the map, from 7.4 (his one good year) to 3.4. Crawford has been consistently around 4.5 to 5.5 as a high (except for 2008 when he missed time due to injury).

        • MattG says:

          No, the only place Crawford has Granderson beat is stolen bases.

          Career OBP: .344 > .335
          Career SLP: .484 > .437
          Career OPS: .828 > .772

          CF > LF
          $37M over 4 years < $70M over 5 years (at least)

  120. Rick James (YEAAAA) says:

    i love to see RAB nerds be upset when Prospects are traded.

    its like someone just took away their calculators.

  121. Pasqua says:

    Way I see it, best case scenario, AJax becomes Granderson. So, they just got the real one instead.

  122. Steve H says:

    This works a lot better if Melky ends up the 4th OF, you can just start him against tough LHP, small dropoff in defense, and big upgrade on offense (vs. Granderson vs. LHP).

  123. Charlie says:

    does anyone know if there are any CF prospects in the rule V? maybe that’ll replace ajax

  124. Bob Stone says:

    Granderson’s number in Detroit was #28. A good omen perhaps?

  125. T-Dubs says:

    As the day goes on I like this trade more and more. Two minor things I wonder: if Damon resigns who hits in the 2 hole. If Damon doesn’t resign, who hits in the 5 spot?

  126. Ivan says:

    This is pretty solid deal for the yankees. Granderson yes has severe splits against lefties, however, he has potential to bounce back in 2010 in a huge way.

    This trade tells me that their is little chance that the yanks will trade for halladay.

    A-Jax,IPK and Coke for Granderson>>>>>>>>>>Hughes/Joba, Montero and another prospect for Halladay.

  127. EB says:

    i like this deal. for me it hinges on IPK.
    i do believe that IPK will be a legit starter, especially in the NL west. I think theres a chance he’ll become Dan Haren lite
    but he was not in the yankees plans.

    This really is the swisher blueprint. buy low on skilled players in their primes

    • Steve in PDX says:

      IPK, Coke AJax>>>>>>>Betemit and whoever else it was. Granted, Granderson is better than Swish, but this will not be nearly the steal that was.

  128. Damaso Garcia completes the double play says:

    Good deal for the Yanks if this materializes – believe I mentioned this @ 5 days ago in the Cashman Loves Cameron post(s). I only wish they could have substituted David Parrish for Austin Jackson!


  129. Bronx Cheer says:

    At this point, I think having Damon and Grandy on the same team would make the default starting lineup a little too vulnerable to lefty starters, so I consider Cameron to have a slight edge over Damon at this point. If you sign Damon, you almost have to bring in AT LEAST a platoon quality RHH (i.e., lefty masher) for the corner OF.

    My best case scenario going forward (? Belt and suspenders. Bring in both a starter caliber RHH OF, and a RHH OF backup with a LHH DH.

    Given the “usual suspects” currently associated with the Yankees in the press, this works out to:
    1) Sign Cameron for 1 years
    2) Sign Damon for 2 years
    3) obtain RHH bench player that mashes lefties (I would prefer someone with IF/OF positional flexibility, but that is a tall order. Would settle for a corner OF)

    This gives you the opportunity run out a default lineup of Damon@DH, Cameron@LF, Grandy@CF, Swish@RF for most of the games, and swap in RHH guy and/or Melky into the lineup to protect Grandy/Damon against tough lefties.

  130. larryf says:

    Sterling is working on his calls now:

    A Dandy from Grandy!!!

  131. Drew says:

    I get home and this is the news I get!


    Hopefully everyone passes their physicals.

  132. BigBlueAL says:

    Like I said last night (or I guess earlier this morning) this is a no-brainer for the Yankees. Now all of a sudden trading IPK is a bad move?? WTF?? All the fans here who probably have never seen AJax play have a much higher opinion of him than most things Ive read about him.

    Cashman is the man and has pulled off another great move.

  133. Joe D. says:

    I’m thrilled with the deal. Very good player at a great price for a few years. Fungible lefty relievers add zilch to the value of the deal, so this is C-Grand for Kennedy and Jackson.

    I’m not nearly as high on Jackson as many Yankee fans seem to be. I’ve viewed him for a while as Melky Cabrera with a touch more speed and a ton more strikeouts. Now that he’s somebody else’s problem, I can feel good about being truthful: his BABIP-mirage, low-wattage slop won’t play in the majors. Kid has about a 5% chance of being…Curtis Granderson. Good riddance.

    • Brian Cashman is Watching says:

      Derek Jeter’s career BABIP: .362. Curtis Granderson? .323. They have longer track records of maintaining it, but this point is fairly important: BABIP is used to evaluate pitchers, not hitters.

      Everything else might be right, just can’t let that BABIP reference go.

      • sciorsci says:

        But .390? Are you suggesting that he’s 8% better than Derek Jeter at hitting ‘em where they ain’t? Sorry, I’m not buying it. Yes, BABIP is more significant in evaluating pitchers, but it can still be used to spot someone who is producing at an unsustainable rate offensively as well.

      • Joe D. says:

        BABIP is used to evaluate pitchers, not hitters.

        I disagree, sort of. I’m not evaluating him based on his BABIP, but rather pointing out his numbers were boosted by something that looks to be luck more than skill. I simply don’t think he’ll pull off a .370+ BABIP (his career minor league BABIP) in the majors, and I haven’t seen (and haven’t seen scouts note) that Jackson has some Ichiro-like ability to pull that off.

        That’s been a huge part of his game, particularly last season.

        Looking at a hitter’s BABIP to help forecast what one can expect going forward indeed *is* important. Recognizing a BABIP fluke was crucial in stealing Swisher from the White Sox. And I expect Cashman was well aware of Granderson’s dumb luck in that department and made that part of his C-Grand forecast going forward. BABIP can indeed be used correctly to say something about hitters.

    • larryf says:

      I agree with JoeD. I have seen AJax in Scranton, Durham and Tampa and there is no way to predict what kind of major leaguer he will be. He can fly and has a good/not great arm. Could be 3-5 years away from whatever he may be or he may never be. I love the trade. Granderson can lead off against righties and a great threat for steals and hit and run with Jeter and you can move him down against lefties. We have plenty of firepower anyway. At least Grandy won’t have to face CC or Andy. I believe he hit 2 HR’s in one game at YS this year…

  134. Pasqua says:

    On her updates as part of Michael Kay’s radio show, Bonnie Bernstein keeps saying that Kennedy is going to Det. and AJax / Coke are going to Arizona. It’s absolutely driving me crazy. No one is correcting her. Irrelevant, yes, but grating nonetheless.

  135. mike c says:

    okay, say you now buy Johnny Damon at a lower rate because he now has no leverage. would you trade granderson + hughes for halladay at that point? i say YES

    • Mac says:

      ahhh yes this must be part of the plan to get johnny damon at a lower rate

      Its all clear now.

    • Brian Cashman is Watching says:

      So you basically trade Hughes, Jackson, Coke, and Kennedy for Halladay? Don’t know if it would work before, and without Jackson or Kennedy being cost controlled (and Granderson already at seven figures), why would Toronto do that?

      • mike c says:

        because they get a good arm in hughes & a great outfielder who is making 5m i believe. minus halladay that leaves plus or minus 11m that they could sign a decent FA arm with too. i doubt boston will top that offer either

  136. [...] are still some minor details left to hammer out, but the Yanks, D-Backs, and Tigers have all agreed on the framework of a three-team trade that will send Curtis Granderson to the Bronx, Edwin Jackson to the desert, and various prospects [...]

  137. [...] got interrupted by a minor move yesterday, so let’s give this thing another go today. Same time (1pm ET), same place (here). [...]

  138. [...] clear on Day 1 of the Winter Meetings, and with the reported signing of Andy Pettitte and trade for Curtis Granderson, we can see he’s serious. There are multiple instances of “pitching” in that [...]

  139. [...] Sherman tweets that the three-team deal that will bring Curtis Granderson to New York is now official. All the medicals checked out, and [...]

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