Yankees set to acquire Curtis Granderson, pending physicals
ByThe rumor started late last night and developed throughout the day. Now it’s close to official: the Yankees have agreed to acquire centerfielder Curtis Granderson from the Tigers in a three team trade. Here’s the breakdown of who will get what:
To Yankees: CF Curtis Granderson
To Tigers: LHP Phil Coke, CF Austin Jackson, RHP Max Scherzer, LHP Dan Schlereth
To D-Backs: RHP Edwin Jackson, RHP Ian Kennedy,
Joel Sherman says that removing lefty reliever Mike Dunn was a key for the Yankees, who now have some leverage to use against free agent Johnny Damon. Sherman adds that the trade may not be finalized today because “minor details, mainly medicals, take time, must be worked thru.”
In Granderson, the Yankees will get a 28-year-old centerfielder coming off a 30 homerun, 20 steal season. However, he can’t hit lefthanded pitching at all (.210-.270-.344), and his once superb defense is now just slightly above average. The Yanks also pick up some major cost certainty, as Granderson is signed through 2012 for a total of $25.75M, plus there’s an option for 2013. He’s also familiar with Derek Jeter, having played with him during the WBC.
To get Granderson, the Bombers gave up their top prospect coming into 2009 in Austin Jackson, who hit .300-.354-.405 in Triple-A this year. Ian Kennedy’s last act as a Yankee will be pitching a scoreless 8th inning in a meaningless late season game against the Angels, while Phil Coke will be remembered as the guy that gave up two homers in one World Series inning. The move makes a dent in the Yanks’ pitching depth, however the Yanks can make up for some it with the player they take first overall in Thursday’s Rule 5 Draft.
Dave Cameron at FanGraphs calls the deal “almost too good to be true” for the Yanks.
YES! This was a great move by Cashman!
“YES! This was a great move by Cashman!”
LMAO!!!! It’s an aweful move. Aweful! Dombrowski has been picking Cashman’s pockets for years now!
Granderson is a so-so hitter (.242, .327 obp, .780 ops) and he’s not even a good base-stealer anymore (20 sb’s….big deal). He is overhyped as a defensive player, and he can’t hit lefties for shit!
That is really worth Jackson, Kennedy, and Coke? No way.
THIS is the guy they chose to move Austin Jackson for???? Ridiculous. I mean, the numbers don’t lie. Are the Yankees really stroking themselves that hard over this guy’s 30 dingers? Because everything else he brings to the table is pretty pedestrian.
LMAO!!!! It’s an aweful move. Aweful! Dombrowski has been picking Cashman’s pockets for years now!
A-W-F-U-L
And, what are these other moves where Dombrowski picked Cashman’s pockets? Elucidate, please. Details.
Yea, They really fleeced us on Farnsworth.
As hard as it is to believe, the Yankees actually got less value from IROD than the Tigers did from Farnsworth. I know…..I can’t believe it either.
Let’s see……..the Yankees have handed Dombrowski Mike Lowell, Ted Lilly, and Gary Sheffield. Can you name the players the Yankees got in return, and how A SINGLE ONE of them contributed positively to the Yankees?
Dombrowski built two DIFFERENT WS winners in Florida, then came to Detroit and pulled the Tigers out of the basement and into respectibility. And he did it all without a 200 million dollar budget, so I don’t think I need to further ELUCIDATE why the man doesn’t give too many bargains to his fellow GM’s.
AND I Want him in CF not in LF, itd be great to have a good CF with speed.
Sucks to give up A-Jax but you have to give to get.
Don’t worry Pop, when AJax becomes Granderson in 4 years, we can trade for him.
haha oh so true. FA c/o 2014
How bout when Scherzer becomes A.J. Burnett?
I would think IPK would of bother you more.
I’m rather annoyed that the Yankees’ aren’t getting back any prospects. Why involve the D-Backs at all if they give nothing back?
maybe Cashman just wanted to be nice?
Agreed, seems more like the Tigers doing 2 deals at once, where they needed the Yanks deal to go down first.
Yeah, it seems a little odd.
The problem is we cannot just give up Jackson and Coke to get Granderson. We had to part with Kennedy too, which the Tigers flipped and sent to the Dbacks. And that is why it is a 3 team deal…
B/c the Tigers must’ve really wanted to unload Edwin jackson that bad. The Scherzer / Schlereth return is solid for a dominant half-season wonder.
I agree. I would have liked to have gotten away with a deal without losing AJAX and IPK.
But I guess Detroit had Scherzer > Kennedy and thats why they were involved.
Why involve the D-Backs at all if they give nothing back?
They did give something back. They gave the Tigers Scherzer and Schlereth.
Without that, this deal probably doesn’t happen. From Detroit’s perspective, if you eliminate Arizona entirely, the deal changes from this:
GIVE: Jackson and Granderson
GET: Scherzer, Schlereth, AJax, Coke
to this:
GIVE: Granderson
GET: AJax, IPK, Coke
… now, maybe they could flip Edwin Jackson to someone for two arms of Scherzer and Schlereth’s caliber in a separate deal, but… maybe they can’t. For a team strapped for cash trying to move two guys who are either expensive or soon to be expensive, and who have red flags, I’d much prefer to move them both together and get the Scherzer/Schlereth arms instead of the Kenendy arm by itself.
Scherzer and Schlereth are great arms. (I don’t understand why the Diamondbacks moved them, but whatevs.)
They obv have concerns about the injury history of Scherzer and doubt his ability to start long term.
http://twitter.com/BenBadler/status/6471531950
wooo
Bottom line:
Great move by Cashman now he can think about pitching and let Damon and Scott Boras look for the meaning of life if they want to.
I told a friend the other day I wouldn’t be surprise if they end up with both Granderson and Halladay. He called me a greedy Yankees fan.
I say “The point is, ladies and gentleman, that greed, for lack of a better word, is good. Greed is right, greed works”
Gordon Gekko in Wall Street.
For the bajillionth time, no on Halladay!
We will see my friend let just enjoy having a great CF
It’s not about whether you’re right or wrong that it happens: it’s a bad deal for us.
Like I been told a 100 times here believe in Cashman if he does it then its because thats the best thing for the Yankees.
That’s not what you’ve been told a 100 times here.
Sorry but Montero is not going anywhere. Only to AAA Scranton Yankees mid 2010.
I think you might have missed the moral message of that movie.
Well, there’s only one thing to do about that:
Go see the sequel this April to try and figure it out.
http://www.imdb.com/title/tt1027718/
I didn’t but i enjoyed the line and in the real world the Gordon Gekko types win most of the time i’m sorry to say.
in the real world the Gordon Gekko types win most of the time i’m sorry to say.
Counterargument: The 2008-2009 GFC
Yes and how many Gordon Gekko types went to jail ?
The rich stayed rich and the working class bailed everyone out.
SOME of the rich stayed rich. Far from all of the rich stayed rich.
Many of the Gekko types, the actual traders and money managers, they lost everything because they were totally personally leveraged.
I’m okay with this…but it sounds like the Yanks aren’t getting any prospects in the deal, which was something I was hoping for.
but we get to keep Dunn!
True.
Prospect we received in the deal:
Curtis Granderson
Fair enough.
I wanted more names to follow on DOTF.
Humberto and Romulo Sanchez.
Honestly dude, how good do you think Granderson really is? I guarentee that he’s about half the player you believe him to be.
I could care less if the Yankees kept Austin Jackson or not, but the fact is, he’d become a valuable trade chip…….and so had Kennedy. Now they’ve just been wasted on Granderson.
How many trades must Dombrowski make with Cashman before you finally realize that the Yankees are never getting any bargains from him?
The Yanks are getting a first round draft pick from the Nats. (Brian Brunney) ie. prospects
I will continue to follow Austin Jackson’s career with much interest, and now, trepidation.
+1. I’ll be insanely conflicted.
+1 to this.
I hope he has a solid career, with a few seasons over league average, with maybe 1 or 2 all star appearances, while making millions of dollars. That seems like a fair compromise.
+24
Even though I really should be, I’m not a fan of this. Granderson has been trending downward in everything except HR the past few years. My unbridled love and optimism for AJAX keeps me from liking this. Oh well, I hope I’m wrong.
Good for IPK tho, he gets to pitch closer to home and in a much easier division.
I agree. IPK is a clear winner from this trade. He could very well make the AZ rotation as the 5th starter.
IPK gets to pitch about 2 hours closer to home (but he still has to fly there, either way), but he has to live in Detroit instead of New York. He’d probably prefer to sit on an airplane for a couple of extra hours here and there than live in Detroit over NY. (Not that this really matters.)
On more important matters- I agree about Granderson. It’s hard not to like this trade from a transactional standpoint, but I definitely worry about Granderson’s recent trends. Hopefully 2009 was the outlier.
IPK’s in Phoenix, not Detroit.
F me, disregard this comment. IPK to ARI, not DET.
::shoots self in head with finger-gun::
I agree, Pat. I really respect the insight of a lot of people who comment here, so I want to know what I’m missing, since I see this deal as horrific. Not meh, not bad, but horrific.
As Pat noted, Granderson has been worse every year than the year before. And his lefty-righty splits are Mo-awful.
A Jax is one of the few legit OF prospects in the system, and IPK, though he takes a lot of abuse, is a legit back-of-the-rotation starting prospect. I don’t give a damn about Coke. He’s fine but eminently replaceable.
If this is a straight Granderson for Damon move, then I am depressed.
Plus, we can no longer make the IPK and Melky for everyone jokes.
I hate this.
If you’re going to point out Granderson’s decline, what about AJAX’s decline in power numbers.
Dont make it sound like Jackson is a sure thing all star here.
He looks like a solid player but not a star especially with lacking any kind of power.
Terrible deal!
Just because we have a great infield doesn’t mean we should be overpaying a bunch of outfielders who can’t hit.
Huh?
Granderson is a 4+ WAR player
and he is not that expensive either
I don’t care if he is a plus 10 peace player.
Hit better then .250 or I’m not insterested.
and cheap for how long?
1 year?
We get rid of a handful of minimum wage players for a very average hitter just entering his overpaid years.
Lame
/rant’d
http://images.starcraftmazter......e_here.jpg (safe)
yo props on the (safe) tag btw
Hit better then .250 or I’m not insterested.
FACT: Curtis Granderson has hit better than .250 every single year of his career, except for 2009. In 2009 he hit .249. FACT.
Well done stat master!
I assume we agree that .249 is less then .250 and we just aquired someone who hit under .250 for the entire season.
I assume we agree that you sound like an idiot quibbling over one-one thousandth of a point of batting average.
Do you remember last year when we traded for a guy who hit .219? How’d that work out for us?
SMART!! Kevin Long may be a big factor here as well.
Well said, but I still feel uneasy about this deal.
“Hit better then .250 or I’m not insterested.”
Not a Swisher fan, eh?
Not even sort of.
Good guy to help you get to the playoffs but not good enough to make a difference against good pitching.
Neither guy is bad at 3-5 mil per year but not over that.
Swisher is a career .333/.458/.444 hitter off Cliff Lee. Cliff Lee is “good pitching”. Thus Swisher is awesome and you are wrong.
How do I get the dumbest post comments?
You must be part of that Jr High click that hands out the awards.
I remember last week when you were scoopemup.
batting average is a lame statistic
Granderson gets on base a lot, plays good defense and has lots and lots of pop that will be amplified in new Yankee stadium
worth as many wins as Damon has been, and he is younger and cheaper
Batting average is a lame stat if you look at that alone but ignoring it is dumber giving it weight.
It also means more to me then just batting average. It also says something about the ability of the batter to make contact when needed.
You know what’s even dumber than either of those things?
Being mad at someone for not hitting .250 or better when they hit .249.
The statistical significance of .250 over .249 is nil. Nothing. Zero. Bubkis.
under .280 is my cut off. under .250 is simply stating the facts. I’m not sure why you would assume one extra point would matter.
If under .280 was your cutoff, you should have said that. What you said was:
In any event, I hope you thoroughly enjoy your little moving argument game.
The only game is the one you are playing in your mind.
Instead of trying to understand a simple point you are going to try to pin me to a standard I have disagreed with?
If your life is as pointless as your arguments you really need help.
Someday try a baseball argument for a baseball point. it might shrink your wee a bit but you also might not be one.
Granderson is also coming cheap, so to speak. He signed a 5 year extension in the Winter of ‘08 for 30ish mill. I think that’s a good deal given Granderson probable production.
Hahah I just got that, “+10 peace player”.
Good stuff.
Paul O’Neill 1992 (CIN NL) age 29 – BA = .246; OPS+ = 102
I think that worked out OK for the Yankees. If anything O’Neill was a bigger risk going forward than Granderson is now. Before coming to the Yanks O’Neill was also terrible against LHP. By 1994 his age 31 season he became a passable hitter against LHP.
O’Neil OPS vs. LHP (CIN) 1988 – 1992 (621, 548, 721, 575, 565)
O’Neil OPS vs. LHP (NYY) 1993 – 2001 (597, 1011, 820, 739, 766, 760, 543, 836, 732)
Just for comparison
Granderson OPS vs. LHP (DET) 2006-2009 (671, 494, 739, 484).
Paul O’Neill came with a prospect and cost the Yankees Roberto Kelly… Granderson is costing the Yankees 3 major league ready prospects.
O’Neill is also one guy, would be interested to see if he’s an aberration or if this is a fairly regular phenomenon.
Then why are the Tigers dealing him if he’s so great and inexpensive?
Because he was part of a deal that netted them Max Scherzer, among others. And because, in case you hadn’t noticed, Detroit is pretty much the epicenter of the recession. What’s cheap to the Yankees, and, in a relative sense, compared to the free agent market, is not necessarily cheap to the Tigers right now. I’m sure they’d much rather move Magglio Ordonez’s contract, but that’s not necessarily reasonable. They’d have to eat a large portion of the contract AND pay a replacement. This move allowed them to shed Granderson’s contract and acquire a pitcher of Scherzer’s caliber as well as taking a chance on AJax’s development for far less money.
They’re flat broke.
Have you seen Baghdad West lately? Went there for a business meeting a few weeks ago. Wow!
What are you talking about
Ladies and gents, your dumbest comment of the day!
the day is still early and we have many idiots on hand
I think this tops it:
http://riveraveblues.com/2009/.....ent-708674
Um, what? Granderson can’t hit? Despite his struggles against lefties, he’s got a career OPS+ of 113. Melky: 88.
But his value over Melky is not really the debate.
When did Milk become the standard for major league hitting?
I thought he defined AAAA hitter.
What part of a .249 average is being about to hit? the fact that he does OK in a few secondary stats means he has some skills but he isn’t an above average hitter.
AAAA? He hit league average last year. How is MLB league average AAAA?
When you are the Yankees
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/No_true_scotsman
http://media.photobucket.com/i.....n/stop.jpg (safe)
You really need to get off the batting average thing
Secondary stats? Like HR and IsoP? Those aren’t any more secondary than BA, which has been shown, repeatedly, to be far overvalued as a stat, as I’m sure you know.
http://tinyurl.com/yo9cor
Wrong on multiple levels. $8.3 million on average for 3 years is hardly overpaying, and last I checked, Granderson could hit a little bit…which is probably why they just f’ing traded for him.
http://www.chicagonow.com/blog.....derson.jpg
heh…i have two images in my head…one is bobby abreu cringing before he hits the fence, and johnny damon running into the mesh part of the fence with his face!
ok…but we can still bring back johnny right?
Leaping catches at the wall like that is what makes a man a superstar!!!
Sincerely,
The People who hate Mike Cameron but love Torii Hunter
The Yankees also opened up 2 spots on the 40-man roster.
great point
+1 big win.
Wasn’t Ian Kennedy also on the 40 man roster? Meaning it’s 3 spots are cleared up on the 40 man roster?
Add one for Granderson.
Wow. How did I not notice that? lol
But Granderson will take 1.
What do people think about Reed Johnson as a platoon-mate for Granderson? Last 3 years he’s hit .329 .395 .483 against lefties and plays a beastly left field (when healthy). Obvious issue is having 5 OF.
Yanks just gave up their best, closest to ML-level OF prospect for Granderson. Highly doubt he will be used in a platoon.
Yeah.
Even though he’s struggled mightily against lefties (every other year), you’ve got to let him keep trying and see if he can solve the problem. He’s too young and too important to become a part-time player.
Go check Granderson’s splits. He is the epitome of platoon player.
Just because you say so doesn’t mean the Yanks view him as that. In fact, I’d say it’s quite obvious the Yanks do NOT think of him as a platoon player considering what they gave up to get him.
The question is whether they are right… and whether finding out is worth what they gave up.
Only in odd number years. Check the splits. If nothing else, that should tell you something about the unreliability of single-season platoon splits.
You dont trade for Granderson to platoon him.
Sorry to lose Jackson but Granderson will be a huge pickup for our outfield. Move the Milk to LF and have Granderson at CF and Swish at RF. Sounds good to me!
Dear Curtis Granderson,
Please start hitting LHP.
Sincerely
The Fans
+1
Just read the blurb by Chad at LoHud about A-Jax and I would be lying if I didn’t feel just the slightest twinge of regret.
I hope he blows up in Motown.
Pretty juiced on this deal.
Granderson in the #2 hole against righties
Swisher in the #2 hole against lefties
Thoughts?
This whitey, the sox fan?
sounds like an expensive platoon?
Doesn’t sound like a platoon at all.
Shh…you’re making sense.
Maybe he’s a Mets fan.
http://riveraveblues.com/2009/.....ent-704007
your brain = fail
one plays rf one plays cf. where they hit in the lineup has nothing to do with a platoon PLUS swisher is a switch hitter.
Good move. Hard to argue with getting a known commodity like Granderson in his prime for unknown commodities that may or may not pan out. Now we can dream of K-Long getting him to hit at a respectable level vs lefties.
Nonetheless, I’d expect a power surge from him next in YSIII. He’s an excellent fit for us, definitely the best option we have for the 2-hole.
Thanks AJax and IPK! You fellas did your job as trade bait.
Who’s the common sense platoon partner for him? Melky?
He’s not going to hit at a respectable level vs. lefties without the opportunity to hit vs. lefties. So the common sense platoon partner for Granderson is Granderson.
It saddens me that there will be no more IPK + Melky trades
End of an era.
Any predictions for the new combo du jour?
I’ll go with Melky + Z-Mac for (insert superstar here).
ZMac + Gritner get Pujols.
I vote for Anthony Claggett and Shelley Duncan.
Duncan has to be in this deal to play on his dad’s team.
Fat Sanchez #1 + Fat Sanchez #2?
that’s what prospects are for…time for a new era!
For real.
Actually, since they are now even more impossible, and therefore ridiculous, I think the entertainment value of them is even higher.
Well, from the people not seriously suggesting it, I should say.
So, really, the Yankees traded AJax, IPK and Coke for Curtis Granderson. The fact that Detroit essentially spun IPK and Coke to AZ is irrelevant to the Yankees; so it is not really a three-way trade.
They say even a good trade should hurt. This kinda hurts. I think they sold low on either Jackson or IPK by sending both for one OF, or the Yankees see their ceilings as lower than the many of the rest of us.
No, it is a 3 way trade because it would not of happened without 3 teams involved… You can’t make these trades as 2 separate trades because you can’t be sure the latter team wont back out of it… you know, after you already completed the first trade, leaving you with a player you didn’t want in the first place.
Agreed.
A HUGE, HUGE part of this for Detroit was getting the Scherzer and Schlereth arms in the deal. Without that, the thing probably does not happen.
Good point. I sit corrected.
This is the way the vast majority of “three-way” trades go down. Very rarely does Team A get players (or money, or PTBNL) from B and C, B from A and C, C from A and B, etc. Usually, it can be broken down, in a sense, into two separate two-team trades, but there’s so many backchannel contingencies involved that it is very much a three-way trade.
I do like Granderson, but part of me is definitely dissapointed that we won’t get to see what Jackson will become. I know he’s just a prospect but after hearing about him all this time, definitely sucks a little. But that’s some kind of outfield the Yanks have now!
You’ll see plenty of what he’ll become, just not in pinstripes.
I don’t like giving up IPK but getting rid of A Jax before his value tanks is a godsend, plus this stabilizes the outfield for a while.
Austin Jackson’s value is going to tank?
Not for certain, but there is a very good chance that he will never be worth more than he is right now (not unlike most prospects at the same moment in their career).
Yup. Knock his BABIP down to even .350 and that slash line dips big time.
Jax has been seriously playing baseball for what??? 4 years? He is only going to get better. His value is only going to increase. There are 16 year olds with more baseball experience that Jax. Give him some time, he may really blossom into something.
Yeah he may but odds are against him.
The odds are against every prospect.
http://www.dailymotion.com/vid.....dds_dating (safe)
Haha now Damon’s probably crapping his pants cause his stock just went Waaayyy down in the Yankees eyes
im excited/sad, i hate trading away prospects after watching them develope. all the best to a-jax.
agreed
agreed
Giving up AJax hurts but it should. You are getting a very good player in Granderson. Plus defense and Plus power, all reasonably price and at the ripe at of 27. That would allow the Yankees to not give Damon the 2+ years hes looking for.
Best part of all hopefully no more Halladay to the Yanks.
Grandy is going to be 29 in March.
Thanks for the correction. I should have looked it up.
Jackson and Kennedy was a lot to give up for a guy who declined two straight years to a bad .249/.327/.453 line (worst than Melky) who can’t hit lefties a lick – check out his splits, 2008 is the only year he was even passable against lefties. Maybe it works out, and he reverts back to 2007 or even 2008 form, but Kennedy is a legit starting pitcha and Jackson is their second best prospect (I could care less about Coke).
What makes Kennedy legit? And Melky’s slugging was under .420, and he hasn’t shown to be any better than that. This is a great deal.
I say. Watch him this year in Arizona. As for Melky, you’re missing the point – he was not a good hitter last year – I’m sorry, but .327 OBP is just BAD for a guy hyped as much as Granderson, much less one who hit leadoff. Last year, he would have been (production wise) the 9 hitter in the Yankee lineup, or maybe the 8 hitter, if you want to get picky.
Granderson is a star player the Yanks are getting because he had a bad year… Long and the Stadium will rejuvenate him.
That’s the hope, but there’s no guarantee.
Just like there’s no guarantee with Kennedy or Jackson
You know who else couldn’t hit lefties a lick when we traded for him?
Paul O’Neill
O’Neill’s career OPS vs LH’ers was 0.598 when he came over from Cincy
Granderson’s career OPS vs LH’ers is 0.614.and a year younger than O’Neill was when traded.
Granderson also has OPS’d 84 pts higher on the road over his career.
I remember wondering what the Yankees were thinking when they dealt Roberto Kelly for a platoon RF’er.
We’d be extremely lucky if Grandy turns into O’Neill.
Please, don’t compare O’Neil with Granderson. Just stop.
Why? I think it’s a very valid point made about it.
YES BUT I DON’T LIKE IT BECAUSE IT CONTRADICTS MY PERSONAL GRANDERSON HATE!!!!
You can find a credible exception to any rule, though. Is O’Neill the exception or the rule? I have no idea, but my gut tells me he is the exception. If so, maybe Granderson is another exception, but the odds are against him just like the odds are against Austin Jackson.
Request denied…
Why not? He’s giving a reasonable statistical analysis to suggest Granderson might turn around and be someone special. He’s not saying Curtis Granderson today is Paul O’Neill.
Can’t compare black and white baseball players. Cardinal rule of blogging.
Melk was OPS+ 99. Grand was 100. Grand’s peak/average: 135/113. Melk: 99(this season)/88.
Melk also can’t hit lefties.
I am pissed off
Rage
Would you say you’re “enraged”?
Who gets added with Melky+Igawa+? for a superstar haha
Melky + Nova/Z-mac
good work by cashman…
Now the question is….who hits leadoff???? Jeter or Granderson…
We also got to sign Andy Pettitte, and Matsui/Damon on of the two, and were set for 2010:)
You’re kidding, right? Look at Granderson’s OBP last year, and ask that question again.
I was just doing that, and I’m not fond of the idea of slotting him in second, either.
He’ll feast on fastballs in front of Tex.
Look at Granderson’s OBP last year, and ask that question again.
Counterargument: His OBPs the two years BEFORE last year are solid. .361, .365.
Exactly. The Yankees are betting that last year was a statistical outlier, and that Granderson had a bad year and not a nose-dive. Considering he was only 28 last year, not typically an age where you start a rapid decline in skill, I don;t think it’s a bad bet.
You’re my boy, Scotty Bro.
Fair point, but shouldn’t you get a discount when you’re taking a risk? If Granderson reverts to form the Tigers did them a favor, if he keeps up his 2009 numbers the Yankees did them a HUGE favor by eating his salary through 2012…
Maybe the Yankees in fact wanted to trade major league ready prospects they aren’t high on to clear spots on the 40 man roster, but it just seems like there’s a lot of value you can get from major league ready prospects from teams having a fire sale. Since Jackson has the potential to be better than Granderson and the Yankees included 2 young arms, I’m not thrilled.
I almost expect some juggling to occur in that respect. If Grandy bounces back this season he’s a valid leadoff option, though Jeter is solid there too. It’s a great problem to have!
Best part of this deal? NO MORE ipk / melky trade scenarios.
That’s the worst part.
Not to Axisa:
http://twitter.com/mikeaxisa/status/6471678256
The big three has been broken up.
Who said IPK had no value!
Well, I am pretty peeved that the Yankees get nothing back for him. If all it took was Coke/Jackson, they should’ve just done that trade w/Detroit and left Arizona out of it.
Can’t assume the fallacy of the predetermined outcome there though.
it took more than coke/jackson…it took coke/jackson plus whomever the d’bags sent to detroit too…
Well, I am pretty peeved that the Yankees get nothing back for him. If all it took was Coke/Jackson, they should’ve just done that trade w/Detroit and left Arizona out of it.
You’re looking at this wrong, Matt. It didn’t take only Coke/Jackson. It took a good position player and THREE good arms to convince the Tigers to ship away Granderson AND Jackson.
You can’t divide the trades like that, it doesn’t work that way.
Agreed, there is no way the Tigers trade Edwin Jackson for Scherzer & Schlereth, they needed IPK, therefore they would have asked for him in the Granderson trade.
Yup.
Just look at our outfield now…
Melfky- LF
Granderson- CF
Swisher- RF
2/3 can hit 30 homeruns… this is what the yankees were missing all these years a power hitting outfielder
I dont think Melky can put up the numbers needed at a corner outfield position. His offense is passable at a position like CF because of the defense that is required of the position. They still need to sign an offensive asset to play LF
Named Johnny Damon, perhaps.
I agree, I think you still bring Johnny back, but play it like he’s lost some leverage at the negotiating table
MI-IKE! CAME-RON!
(clap clap clap-clap-clap)
MI-IKE! CAME-RON!
(clap clap clap-clap-clap)
Mike Cameron, Curtis Granderson and Nick Swisher….that outfields nickname??
Soul Patrol (Swisher is cool enough to be black)
FACT: Nick Swisher ghostwrote Michael Jackson’s hit “Black or White”, as well as the entire “Off The Wall” album. FACT.
When you’re getting 30+ HR from CF the need for a big bat in one of the corners is nullified. That’s what makes Granderson so appealing. Granderson in CF and Melk in LF is pretty much bthe same as Melk in CF and Damon in LF except the first one is much, much better defensively.
The whole “numbers needed at a corner outfield position” is such a fallacy when considered in this context. Doesn’t Granderson put up numbers that would be acceptable for a corner OF? (hint: yes) Didn’t Melky put up numbers that were adequate enough for the Yankees to win the WS last season? (hint: yes) So if you’re ok with having them both in the lineup, shouldn’t you base your defensive alignment on defense and your offensive lineup on offense?
Don’t get me wrong, I’m still hoping that they bring back Damon in a LF/DH combo role, but I just don’t like the flaccid “numbers needed at a corner outfield position” argument because the idea of numbers required at certain positions is based largely around having average production at other positions. In other words, so long as the Yankees are getting superior offensive production from other traditionally non-slugger positions (C, SS, 2B, CF), they can carry someone like Melky, even in a corner OF role.
I hope Damon comes back – it makes the team that much stronger – but they can play that negotiation on their own terms now.
Alright, let’s play fantasy manager here.
I think there are a few permutations we could see:
LF: Cabrera
CF: Granderson
DH: Damon
LF: Damon
CF: Granderson
DH: Matsui
LF: Granderson
CF: Cameron
DH: Damon OR Matsui OR outside hire.
Which do you guys think will wind up happening? I’d like #3 a lot.
3 would be great but what about the nonsense of lowering payroll? And don’t we need a starter?
Option 3 with Matsui as DH.
BINGO
Lineup analysis time, using CHONE projections:
5.608 per game.
Ron Burgundy massive erection time, CHONE projections:
100%
And that’s with a .320/.418 OBP/SLG projection for Cameron, that he could easily out do.
Definnitely
#3 sounds ideal.
I love 3 but I think 1 is more realistic. But hell, we’re the Yankees. 3.
Wind up happening? No idea. Personally I think #3 with Matsui is ideal from an offense/defense/payroll standpoint.
#1. Damon gets some LF ABs too to open up DH ABs for Posada, A-Rod, etc.
I’m not a big fan of this trade, basically we gave up Austin Jackson, Phil Coke and Ian Kennedy for Curtis Granderson. I don’t mind parting with Coke and Kennedy but Jackson is the real deal. Granderson may have speed but his batting avg last year was garbage. He is also not as great in Center as people think. Does anyone remember the 2 fly balls to center the last week of the season that Granderson misplayed and cost the Tigers a trip to the postseason. I think this trade was uneccessary. Should have left well enough alone. Everyone dogs Melky, but I will take .280/15/75 out of my #9 hitter in a lineup. This trade will backfire for the Yanks
I prefer the .250/30/71 with the 20SB.
Granderson 2009 OPS+ 100
Melky 2009 OPS+ 99
Granderson, 2004-2008 OPS+: 188
Melky, 2005-2008 OPS+: 84
Large samples >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> small samples
Sorry:
Granderson, 2004-2008 OPS+:
188118Melky, 2005-2008 OPS+: 84
I’ll give you:
Larger sample >>>>>> Large sample
One full season is not a small sample.
In 4 full seasons, he’s had 2 very good OPS+ years and 2 average OPS+ years.
Unfortunately, one of the average ones is most recent.
After reading everything, I feel better about this trade then I did before. I’ve gone from pessimist to optimist here, and I dod look forward to seeing him play in pinstripes.
Yeah, but that is with Melky’s best year coupled with Granderson’s worst.
Granderson may have speed but his batting avg last year was garbage.
A) There’s more to a player than just batting average
B) There’s more to Curtis Granderson than just his batting average from 2009
C) There’s evidence that his 2009 batting average was depressed by plain ol’ bad luck and/or a poorly altered plate approach, two things that will either regress to the mean or be fixed with proper coaching
He is also not as great in Center as people think. Does anyone remember the 2 fly balls to center the last week of the season that Granderson misplayed and cost the Tigers a trip to the postseason.
Large samples >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> small samples. Two badly played balls during one week of one season that you vividly remember in your mind does not make Granderson a poor defensive centerfielder. He’s quite good.
TSJC, sounds like you like the move.
I know I do.
I was always against trading for Granderson when the deal included one of Joba or Hughes.
Getting him for AJax and IPK is palatable. I’ll miss AJax a lot, because he’s a full 7 years younger than Granderson, but AJax also had some legit concerns about his bat, so I can see why we sold on him.
Eww, yeah for Joba or Hughes I’d be fucking furious. But I’m rather pleased. Yankees look to get net value in the trade the way I see it.
Its not going to be the megadeal of ridiculous impactfulness that ESPN will make it out to be, but its a solid move.
And something tells me John Kruk will like it for us. Not sure if that’s a good thing or a bad thing.
He’ll like it, and then say that it means we’re abandoning the youth movement since we traded away Jackson and Kennedy, and say that Coke’s absence means one of Joba or Hughes has to go back to the pen because we’ve created a huge hole back there and we’re in “win-now” mode.
Watch.
I’m trying to like this trade but I agree with you. Coke,Austin and IPK are just too much for Granderson. Perhaps I am too emotionally attached to “OUR” guys but my gut tells me this is not a good trade for the future. It might work well for 2010 and maybe 2011 but after that I think this trade will be viewed as a bust for the Yankees.
I still think they need to sign Damon… Melky is not a LF, the production you just gained in CF will be lost in LF is Melky there
I still hope we sign Damon as DH and sometimes fill in for the outfield. He is still a clutch hitter and we can use Granderson in the 9 spot. Plus, I like Melky better in left field with his descent arm. Hate to see AJax go, but honestly I only knew what I read about him or saw in highlight clips.
http://www.hittrackeronline.co.....ype=hitter
Hello, New Yankee Stadium! Granderson will be Damon 2.0
Or, he’ll do what Giambi did and give up the rest of his offensive game in favor of trying to put everything in the RF seats. And he doesn’t have the batting eye to do that.
There’s upside to this deal, but there’s downside too. Granderson could continue his slide, falling in love with the homer. Or, the Yanks could get him back to using more of the field and he could rebound in a big way.
We’ll see
That graph helps me like the trade a little bit but not enough.
I like it. I think IPK will be a solid 3/4 starter for some other team (lucky for him, that team’s in the NL West), but I wasn’t sold on him being successful in NY.
Sucks to lose AJax, but he has the potential to become what Granderson is now, so I don’t see much of a loss there. Although he has a cooler nickname. Can’t wait for all the “Grandys” coming from Girardi.
I’m not a big Granderson fan, and not as excited as some to get him. But I’m good with the trade because I believe they got value in the deal. Basically I feel the Yanks could wait, and potentially (not that they would) trade Granderson for something we couldn’t trade Coke, IPK, and AJAX for.
Well said, and I agree 100%.
I have reservations about Granderson.
I like AJax and I’m bullish on his future.
I didn’t want to trade AJax in the abstract, or acquire Granderson in the abstract, but the trade value is good, so I support the deal in totality.
I’d like to feel the same way but I don’t.
I understand that. AJax and IPK are good, solid youngsters who are tough to give up.
I’m not super-duper pumped about the deal, because it’s not a Swisher-steal, but I think on the whole, it’s a slight victory for us.
Slight.
Don LaGrecca(?) (WFAN) sounds like a big fan of the deal.
I just hit a HR w/Ajax in MLB ‘09.
Just hit another one w/him to give us the lead in the 9th.
MLB ‘09 seems to be a bit bullish on his power.
i think losing Kennedy as SP depth next season kinda stinks. other than that, good deal for Cash.
That’s a good point.
We’re gonna need someone like Justin Duchscherer even more now.
Agree. I expect Cashman to go after pitching fairly hard now.
I happen to LOVE this trade. IPK was NEVER one of my favorite Yankees (I remember his rotten attitude in 2008). Coke was a servicable lefthander out of the bullpen (I remember how uncomfortable he was about closing, so not a lot of upside). Losing Jackson may very well hurt, but you have to give something to get something.
As for Granderson, he is only 29 years old, and he has power, and speed. I agree he does not hit lefthanders well (But how many teams have left handed starters that scare anyone?). Assuming the fact, he will hit second, you can throw in the fact that he is surrounded by Jeter, and Teixeira, and Rodriguez hitting cleanup, you can bet he will get a lot more fastballs to hit in the Yankee lineup. Finally, this guy is supposed to be a good guy in the clubhouse (So they are not bringing in a Milton Bradley-type cancer).
Finally, it gives the Yankees more leverage with Damon/Boras, when it comes to his contract demands, while holding on to the most important prospects (Montero, Hughes, Joba & Romine).
Okay … so now which prospect cracks the Yankees top 10 prospects list? I’d love to see Mike’s revised list later today? No rush tho.
Okay … so now which prospect cracks the Yankees top 10 prospects list? I’d love to see Mike’s revised list later today? No rush tho.
Fixed.
Have any teams made this official? I’m on board with not liking this trade. Not sure how IPK and Jackson will turn out, but I like their potential better than getting a guy who has been trending worse for the last 2 years, ending this year with an exactly league average OPS+ of 100.
Do these people follow the Yankees? Did they not see what happened with Nick Swisher? Granderson’s career is very good. One year overrides all of that?
It’s not 1 year, it’s a downward trend. Plus his inability to hit LHP.
Nothing wrong with pointing out a player’s flaws or having concern
No. but Swisher’s bad year looked almost entirely BABiP driven, and it was a one-year outlier. Granderson’s been on a downward trend, especially against lefties. It could be an approach thing, and that could be fixed…but it could also NOT get fixed and he could wind up being useless in every game against Lester, Price, Romero, Kazmir, etc. I’d love it if they got Cameron to add another righty bat to the lineup.
just imagine if damon re-signs.
Jeter SS
Damon DH
Teix 1B
A-Rod 3B
Posada C
Granderson CF
Cano 2B
Swisher RF
Cabrera LF
Jeter SS
DamonDHLF
Teix 1B
A-Rod 3B
Posada C
Matsui DH
Granderson CF
Cano 2B
Swisher RF
Cabrera LF
the 10-man lineup might not work
hmm…none of my markups came through…
i guess you may be able to tell i was making jd the LF and matsui the DH with either the milkman or the landscaper gone.
i prolly should have just stuck to the ‘fruitless hypothetical’ meme instead
You can’t just use the (s)(/s) strikethrough HTML tags, you have to use the (strike)(/strike) ones.
Damon and Matsui…
Jeter SS
Damon LF
Teix 1B
A-Rod 3B
Matsui DH
Posada C
Granderson CF
Cano 2B
Swisher RF
Murderer’s Row.
isn’t that the same lineup as this year, except granderson instead of matsui
worked well, didn’t it?
Screw Damon…you get Matsui now. Our outfield is somewhat set…unless you want to get Cameron to offsight the entire outfield being awful against lefties. Otherwise, you grab Matsui for DH. Melky is in LF.
That way we’re the same team with a younger faster better Granderson instead of Damon…
Not Granderson instead of Matsui…
I agree.
I’d prefer Damon to Matsui just because I’d feel more comfortable with Damon’s OBP skills in the #2 spot and let Granderson hit lower in the lineup. I know he spent a lot of time as the leadoff man in Detroit, but in my eyes, he could be a solid #6 guy with power to support good RBI opportunities as well as the speed to reset the table for the bottom of the order.
I think trying to keep Damon and Matsui is overdoing it, but that was the case even before acquiring Granderson. I think we all suspected that it was going to likely be one or the other. I’d like to see this lineup in 2010:
Jeter SS
Damon LF/DH
Teixeira 1B
Rodriguez 3B
Posada C/DH
Granderson CF
Cano 2B
Swisher RF
Cabrera(/Cervelli) LF(/C)
Damon would play left when Posada (or anyone else besides Damon) is DHing, with Cervelli occupying the “scrappy #9 hitter” role when Posada isn’t behind the dish.
I love having Granderson but I HATE losing both IPK and A-Jax. We can forget trading for Halladay now. Toronto will ask for Joba/Hughes & Montero and there is no way CASH will give up our top 2 (3 if you count IPK) prospects in the same offseason. Looks like we will be going the free agent route for another starter. I hope we sign Lackey but more than likely we’ll be seeing Harden, Sheets, or the Duke in pinstripes next year.
We can forget trading for Halladay now.
I’m more than okay with that.
+1
I’m practically jumping for joy at the idea that the trade for Halladay is now off the table.
It would have been a bad trade for us.
Makes me like the trade more when this is added to it.
I forgot about trading for Halladay a while ago.
I don’t mind losing IPK, he’s fairly replaceable. I’m sure Z-Mac will be happy to take all the NYY prospect hype that came from Kennedy and take it for himself. Honestly, quite a few things would have had to have happened for him to make the 2010 or 2011 starting rotation, most of them things that we wouldn’t hope to happen.
As for A-Jax, I thought Mike put it very well in the chat. Who could we hope A-Jax turns into? Curtis Granderson?
Sooooo…yeah. I fully support the move, very glad we kept Mike Dunn. He’ll be next year’s Phil Coke, but hopefully with more Ks.
I forgot about trading for Halladay a while ago.
You’ve come so far.
/sheds tear
I know!!!
I’m all growed up now
Hey I’m a man who listens to reason and logic. I assess, evaluate, listen to counterarguments, and then repeat as needed.
ietcvm
so i guess we are letting go of johnny damon?
i’ll never forget screaming my ass off when he stole those two bases on a tex AB. balls to the wall.
can we put dunn back in and take schlereth instead?
No. That was never an option, BTW. Never. Not for half a second.
Now sign any 2 combo of Matsui, Damon or Cameron. Melky goes to the revered 4th outfielder spot, and Brett the Jet lands in Scranton.
Yay, Cash Money Trillionaire.
Heh, +1 to all of this.
3 Ws (dot) C-H-A-Millionaire (dot) com
I’m with you 100%, but Brett wouldn’t go to Scranton, he’d stay with the big club.
13-man position player Opening Day Squad:
C-Posada
1B-Tex
2B-Cano
SS-Jeter
3B-ARod
LF-Cameron/Damon
CF-Granderson
RF-Swisher
DH-Damon/Matsui
Bench
C-Cervelli
UTI-Peña
4thOF-Melky
25thMan-Gardner
Scranton needs a hero!
who is that bench dude?
Aren’t we missing an IF with that roster?
and, from the ‘its-not-my-money’ file, why not trade leche or landscaper and make Matsui the DH with Damon or Cameron the 4th OF? i mean, if money has no object…
what’s the major drawback (besides $) to Matsui and Damon-Granderson-Swisher with Melky?
How much cheaper would we get Damon now that we don’t ‘need’ him? OR will Boras make him go somewhere else?
I’m still wondering why the Diamondbacks were so adament about doing this trade. I’m confused. It seems like they got the worst of the deal and they were the originators of it all.
Tigers made out pretty handsomely though.
I’d say the order of winners in this are Tigers, Yankees, D’backs.
Diamondbacks just got 2 decent starting pitchers.
Man, I type slowly.
If Brandon Webb is truly recovered, the NL West just got tighter. Edwin Jackson is going to hold up alot better. The D-Backs could use bounce-back seasons from Drew and Conor Jackson.
Haren-Webb-Jackson is a nice little trio.
And gave up a potential ace.
There are worse sins than risk-mitigation.
If you project they got 2 starting pitchers that will be in their rotation, which I do, they got a good deal.
Tigers > DBacks > Yanks…
Dont like this deal at all
+1
Unless, Granderson stops regressing and starts progressing
Agree.
A-D-A-M-A-N-T
I agree, though. I hate this trade for Arizona.
Adam Ant was an awesome 80’s singer!
Bet he draws more than Jay-Z if he sings opening day!
I think the rule 5 pickup the Yanks will get from the Nats will make this look like a better trade. I am guessing we pickup a LHP to replace Coke in the pen.
we already did that w a healthy marte.
and by kleeping dunn
Yup.
Marte-Dunn-WDLR on the 40-man already, with Kroenke (if not taken in the R5, or if returned) and possibly Bleich right behind him… we’re good on LOOGY depth. No need to make the R5 pick a lefty reliever.
So does this qualify as a fire – sale on the part of the Tigers? What’s the chances that the Tigers are putting Miggy Cabrera on the block now?
Doubt it, on both questions.
A lot of Tiger fans are loving the deal, mainly cause they sold high on Granderson. I don’t like the sound of that… Hopefully this is not the Xavier Nady trade part 2.
Curtis Granderson is not Xavier Nady, for a variety of reasons. And that was a good trade when it was made.
The Nady/Marte trade turned out to be very similiar to the Graham Lloyd trade from 1996. A guy coming out of nowhere (Marte), to get huge outs in big situations. That trade really benefited both the Yankees and the Pirates.
G-R-A-E-M-E
Dude, if I was a Tiger fan I would love this deal too. They got a major haul, regardless of how Granderson works out. This isn’t like the Nady deal, where they traded for a player coming off a career year. If you want to compare it to anything, it would have to be Swisher–getting a younger guy signed for a few years who is coming off a down season but has tons of potential.
Cashman traded spare parts for Swisher. Ajax was a legit prospect.
I don’t think this is a good comparison.
Apples to oranges.
For Swisher, they gave up NOTHING and got 29 homers, the most walks in the AL, and one handsome cat– and I knows handsome.
Sold high on Granderson??? He had an OPS+ of 100 this past year. If anything, they sold low.
Tigers are the clear winner in this trade.
Yes, but that has more to do with the DBack’s puzzling moves then them fleecing the Yankees.
My initial thoughts are great move for the Tigers, good move for the Yankees and bizarre move for the DBacks.
Bingo.
Swapping Granderson for AJax/IPK/Coke is a pretty even trade for both sides. Turning around and swapping IPK and Edwin for Scherzer and Schlereth is a fleecing. Huge win for the Tigers on THAT part of the three-way.
2 years back they wud hv sold high.. now they have sold at his low and gotten a lot… and he has a heavy contract too… dont get this deal
Heavy contract? $8.3M per year for 3 years including a buyout/option for year 4? That’s downright reasonable f