Yankees set to acquire Curtis Granderson, pending physicals
ByThe rumor started late last night and developed throughout the day. Now it’s close to official: the Yankees have agreed to acquire centerfielder Curtis Granderson from the Tigers in a three team trade. Here’s the breakdown of who will get what:
To Yankees: CF Curtis Granderson
To Tigers: LHP Phil Coke, CF Austin Jackson, RHP Max Scherzer, LHP Dan Schlereth
To D-Backs: RHP Edwin Jackson, RHP Ian Kennedy,
Joel Sherman says that removing lefty reliever Mike Dunn was a key for the Yankees, who now have some leverage to use against free agent Johnny Damon. Sherman adds that the trade may not be finalized today because “minor details, mainly medicals, take time, must be worked thru.”
In Granderson, the Yankees will get a 28-year-old centerfielder coming off a 30 homerun, 20 steal season. However, he can’t hit lefthanded pitching at all (.210-.270-.344), and his once superb defense is now just slightly above average. The Yanks also pick up some major cost certainty, as Granderson is signed through 2012 for a total of $25.75M, plus there’s an option for 2013. He’s also familiar with Derek Jeter, having played with him during the WBC.
To get Granderson, the Bombers gave up their top prospect coming into 2009 in Austin Jackson, who hit .300-.354-.405 in Triple-A this year. Ian Kennedy’s last act as a Yankee will be pitching a scoreless 8th inning in a meaningless late season game against the Angels, while Phil Coke will be remembered as the guy that gave up two homers in one World Series inning. The move makes a dent in the Yanks’ pitching depth, however the Yanks can make up for some it with the player they take first overall in Thursday’s Rule 5 Draft.
Dave Cameron at FanGraphs calls the deal “almost too good to be true” for the Yanks.
YES! This was a great move by Cashman!
“YES! This was a great move by Cashman!”
LMAO!!!! It’s an aweful move. Aweful! Dombrowski has been picking Cashman’s pockets for years now!
Granderson is a so-so hitter (.242, .327 obp, .780 ops) and he’s not even a good base-stealer anymore (20 sb’s….big deal). He is overhyped as a defensive player, and he can’t hit lefties for shit!
That is really worth Jackson, Kennedy, and Coke? No way.
THIS is the guy they chose to move Austin Jackson for???? Ridiculous. I mean, the numbers don’t lie. Are the Yankees really stroking themselves that hard over this guy’s 30 dingers? Because everything else he brings to the table is pretty pedestrian.
LMAO!!!! It’s an aweful move. Aweful! Dombrowski has been picking Cashman’s pockets for years now!
A-W-F-U-L
And, what are these other moves where Dombrowski picked Cashman’s pockets? Elucidate, please. Details.
Yea, They really fleeced us on Farnsworth.
As hard as it is to believe, the Yankees actually got less value from IROD than the Tigers did from Farnsworth. I know…..I can’t believe it either.
Let’s see……..the Yankees have handed Dombrowski Mike Lowell, Ted Lilly, and Gary Sheffield. Can you name the players the Yankees got in return, and how A SINGLE ONE of them contributed positively to the Yankees?
Dombrowski built two DIFFERENT WS winners in Florida, then came to Detroit and pulled the Tigers out of the basement and into respectibility. And he did it all without a 200 million dollar budget, so I don’t think I need to further ELUCIDATE why the man doesn’t give too many bargains to his fellow GM’s.
AND I Want him in CF not in LF, itd be great to have a good CF with speed.
Sucks to give up A-Jax but you have to give to get.
Don’t worry Pop, when AJax becomes Granderson in 4 years, we can trade for him.
haha oh so true. FA c/o 2014
How bout when Scherzer becomes A.J. Burnett?
I would think IPK would of bother you more.
I’m rather annoyed that the Yankees’ aren’t getting back any prospects. Why involve the D-Backs at all if they give nothing back?
maybe Cashman just wanted to be nice?
Agreed, seems more like the Tigers doing 2 deals at once, where they needed the Yanks deal to go down first.
Yeah, it seems a little odd.
The problem is we cannot just give up Jackson and Coke to get Granderson. We had to part with Kennedy too, which the Tigers flipped and sent to the Dbacks. And that is why it is a 3 team deal…
B/c the Tigers must’ve really wanted to unload Edwin jackson that bad. The Scherzer / Schlereth return is solid for a dominant half-season wonder.
I agree. I would have liked to have gotten away with a deal without losing AJAX and IPK.
But I guess Detroit had Scherzer > Kennedy and thats why they were involved.
Why involve the D-Backs at all if they give nothing back?
They did give something back. They gave the Tigers Scherzer and Schlereth.
Without that, this deal probably doesn’t happen. From Detroit’s perspective, if you eliminate Arizona entirely, the deal changes from this:
GIVE: Jackson and Granderson
GET: Scherzer, Schlereth, AJax, Coke
to this:
GIVE: Granderson
GET: AJax, IPK, Coke
… now, maybe they could flip Edwin Jackson to someone for two arms of Scherzer and Schlereth’s caliber in a separate deal, but… maybe they can’t. For a team strapped for cash trying to move two guys who are either expensive or soon to be expensive, and who have red flags, I’d much prefer to move them both together and get the Scherzer/Schlereth arms instead of the Kenendy arm by itself.
Scherzer and Schlereth are great arms. (I don’t understand why the Diamondbacks moved them, but whatevs.)
They obv have concerns about the injury history of Scherzer and doubt his ability to start long term.
http://twitter.com/BenBadler/status/6471531950
wooo
Bottom line:
Great move by Cashman now he can think about pitching and let Damon and Scott Boras look for the meaning of life if they want to.
I told a friend the other day I wouldn’t be surprise if they end up with both Granderson and Halladay. He called me a greedy Yankees fan.
I say “The point is, ladies and gentleman, that greed, for lack of a better word, is good. Greed is right, greed works”
Gordon Gekko in Wall Street.
For the bajillionth time, no on Halladay!
We will see my friend let just enjoy having a great CF
It’s not about whether you’re right or wrong that it happens: it’s a bad deal for us.
Like I been told a 100 times here believe in Cashman if he does it then its because thats the best thing for the Yankees.
That’s not what you’ve been told a 100 times here.
Sorry but Montero is not going anywhere. Only to AAA Scranton Yankees mid 2010.
I think you might have missed the moral message of that movie.
Well, there’s only one thing to do about that:
Go see the sequel this April to try and figure it out.
http://www.imdb.com/title/tt1027718/
I didn’t but i enjoyed the line and in the real world the Gordon Gekko types win most of the time i’m sorry to say.
in the real world the Gordon Gekko types win most of the time i’m sorry to say.
Counterargument: The 2008-2009 GFC
Yes and how many Gordon Gekko types went to jail ?
The rich stayed rich and the working class bailed everyone out.
SOME of the rich stayed rich. Far from all of the rich stayed rich.
Many of the Gekko types, the actual traders and money managers, they lost everything because they were totally personally leveraged.
I’m okay with this…but it sounds like the Yanks aren’t getting any prospects in the deal, which was something I was hoping for.
but we get to keep Dunn!
True.
Prospect we received in the deal:
Curtis Granderson
Fair enough.
I wanted more names to follow on DOTF.
Humberto and Romulo Sanchez.
Honestly dude, how good do you think Granderson really is? I guarentee that he’s about half the player you believe him to be.
I could care less if the Yankees kept Austin Jackson or not, but the fact is, he’d become a valuable trade chip…….and so had Kennedy. Now they’ve just been wasted on Granderson.
How many trades must Dombrowski make with Cashman before you finally realize that the Yankees are never getting any bargains from him?
The Yanks are getting a first round draft pick from the Nats. (Brian Brunney) ie. prospects
I will continue to follow Austin Jackson’s career with much interest, and now, trepidation.
+1. I’ll be insanely conflicted.
+1 to this.
I hope he has a solid career, with a few seasons over league average, with maybe 1 or 2 all star appearances, while making millions of dollars. That seems like a fair compromise.
+24
Even though I really should be, I’m not a fan of this. Granderson has been trending downward in everything except HR the past few years. My unbridled love and optimism for AJAX keeps me from liking this. Oh well, I hope I’m wrong.
Good for IPK tho, he gets to pitch closer to home and in a much easier division.
I agree. IPK is a clear winner from this trade. He could very well make the AZ rotation as the 5th starter.
IPK gets to pitch about 2 hours closer to home (but he still has to fly there, either way), but he has to live in Detroit instead of New York. He’d probably prefer to sit on an airplane for a couple of extra hours here and there than live in Detroit over NY. (Not that this really matters.)
On more important matters- I agree about Granderson. It’s hard not to like this trade from a transactional standpoint, but I definitely worry about Granderson’s recent trends. Hopefully 2009 was the outlier.
IPK’s in Phoenix, not Detroit.
F me, disregard this comment. IPK to ARI, not DET.
::shoots self in head with finger-gun::
I agree, Pat. I really respect the insight of a lot of people who comment here, so I want to know what I’m missing, since I see this deal as horrific. Not meh, not bad, but horrific.
As Pat noted, Granderson has been worse every year than the year before. And his lefty-righty splits are Mo-awful.
A Jax is one of the few legit OF prospects in the system, and IPK, though he takes a lot of abuse, is a legit back-of-the-rotation starting prospect. I don’t give a damn about Coke. He’s fine but eminently replaceable.
If this is a straight Granderson for Damon move, then I am depressed.
Plus, we can no longer make the IPK and Melky for everyone jokes.
I hate this.
If you’re going to point out Granderson’s decline, what about AJAX’s decline in power numbers.
Dont make it sound like Jackson is a sure thing all star here.
He looks like a solid player but not a star especially with lacking any kind of power.
Terrible deal!
Just because we have a great infield doesn’t mean we should be overpaying a bunch of outfielders who can’t hit.
Huh?
Granderson is a 4+ WAR player
and he is not that expensive either
I don’t care if he is a plus 10 peace player.
Hit better then .250 or I’m not insterested.
and cheap for how long?
1 year?
We get rid of a handful of minimum wage players for a very average hitter just entering his overpaid years.
Lame
/rant’d
http://images.starcraftmazter......e_here.jpg (safe)
yo props on the (safe) tag btw
Hit better then .250 or I’m not insterested.
FACT: Curtis Granderson has hit better than .250 every single year of his career, except for 2009. In 2009 he hit .249. FACT.
Well done stat master!
I assume we agree that .249 is less then .250 and we just aquired someone who hit under .250 for the entire season.
I assume we agree that you sound like an idiot quibbling over one-one thousandth of a point of batting average.
Do you remember last year when we traded for a guy who hit .219? How’d that work out for us?
SMART!! Kevin Long may be a big factor here as well.
Well said, but I still feel uneasy about this deal.
“Hit better then .250 or I’m not insterested.”
Not a Swisher fan, eh?
Not even sort of.
Good guy to help you get to the playoffs but not good enough to make a difference against good pitching.
Neither guy is bad at 3-5 mil per year but not over that.
Swisher is a career .333/.458/.444 hitter off Cliff Lee. Cliff Lee is “good pitching”. Thus Swisher is awesome and you are wrong.
How do I get the dumbest post comments?
You must be part of that Jr High click that hands out the awards.
I remember last week when you were scoopemup.
batting average is a lame statistic
Granderson gets on base a lot, plays good defense and has lots and lots of pop that will be amplified in new Yankee stadium
worth as many wins as Damon has been, and he is younger and cheaper
Batting average is a lame stat if you look at that alone but ignoring it is dumber giving it weight.
It also means more to me then just batting average. It also says something about the ability of the batter to make contact when needed.
You know what’s even dumber than either of those things?
Being mad at someone for not hitting .250 or better when they hit .249.
The statistical significance of .250 over .249 is nil. Nothing. Zero. Bubkis.
under .280 is my cut off. under .250 is simply stating the facts. I’m not sure why you would assume one extra point would matter.
If under .280 was your cutoff, you should have said that. What you said was:
In any event, I hope you thoroughly enjoy your little moving argument game.
The only game is the one you are playing in your mind.
Instead of trying to understand a simple point you are going to try to pin me to a standard I have disagreed with?
If your life is as pointless as your arguments you really need help.
Someday try a baseball argument for a baseball point. it might shrink your wee a bit but you also might not be one.
Granderson is also coming cheap, so to speak. He signed a 5 year extension in the Winter of ’08 for 30ish mill. I think that’s a good deal given Granderson probable production.
Hahah I just got that, “+10 peace player”.
Good stuff.
Paul O’Neill 1992 (CIN NL) age 29 – BA = .246; OPS+ = 102
I think that worked out OK for the Yankees. If anything O’Neill was a bigger risk going forward than Granderson is now. Before coming to the Yanks O’Neill was also terrible against LHP. By 1994 his age 31 season he became a passable hitter against LHP.
O’Neil OPS vs. LHP (CIN) 1988 – 1992 (621, 548, 721, 575, 565)
O’Neil OPS vs. LHP (NYY) 1993 – 2001 (597, 1011, 820, 739, 766, 760, 543, 836, 732)
Just for comparison
Granderson OPS vs. LHP (DET) 2006-2009 (671, 494, 739, 484).
Paul O’Neill came with a prospect and cost the Yankees Roberto Kelly… Granderson is costing the Yankees 3 major league ready prospects.
O’Neill is also one guy, would be interested to see if he’s an aberration or if this is a fairly regular phenomenon.
Then why are the Tigers dealing him if he’s so great and inexpensive?
Because he was part of a deal that netted them Max Scherzer, among others. And because, in case you hadn’t noticed, Detroit is pretty much the epicenter of the recession. What’s cheap to the Yankees, and, in a relative sense, compared to the free agent market, is not necessarily cheap to the Tigers right now. I’m sure they’d much rather move Magglio Ordonez’s contract, but that’s not necessarily reasonable. They’d have to eat a large portion of the contract AND pay a replacement. This move allowed them to shed Granderson’s contract and acquire a pitcher of Scherzer’s caliber as well as taking a chance on AJax’s development for far less money.
They’re flat broke.
Have you seen Baghdad West lately? Went there for a business meeting a few weeks ago. Wow!
What are you talking about
Ladies and gents, your dumbest comment of the day!
the day is still early and we have many idiots on hand
I think this tops it:
http://riveraveblues.com/2009/.....ent-708674
Um, what? Granderson can’t hit? Despite his struggles against lefties, he’s got a career OPS+ of 113. Melky: 88.
But his value over Melky is not really the debate.
When did Milk become the standard for major league hitting?
I thought he defined AAAA hitter.
What part of a .249 average is being about to hit? the fact that he does OK in a few secondary stats means he has some skills but he isn’t an above average hitter.
AAAA? He hit league average last year. How is MLB league average AAAA?
When you are the Yankees
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/No_true_scotsman
http://media.photobucket.com/i.....n/stop.jpg (safe)
You really need to get off the batting average thing
Secondary stats? Like HR and IsoP? Those aren’t any more secondary than BA, which has been shown, repeatedly, to be far overvalued as a stat, as I’m sure you know.
http://tinyurl.com/yo9cor
Wrong on multiple levels. $8.3 million on average for 3 years is hardly overpaying, and last I checked, Granderson could hit a little bit…which is probably why they just f’ing traded for him.
http://www.chicagonow.com/blog.....derson.jpg
heh…i have two images in my head…one is bobby abreu cringing before he hits the fence, and johnny damon running into the mesh part of the fence with his face!
ok…but we can still bring back johnny right?
Leaping catches at the wall like that is what makes a man a superstar!!!
Sincerely,
The People who hate Mike Cameron but love Torii Hunter
The Yankees also opened up 2 spots on the 40-man roster.
great point
+1 big win.
Wasn’t Ian Kennedy also on the 40 man roster? Meaning it’s 3 spots are cleared up on the 40 man roster?
Add one for Granderson.
Wow. How did I not notice that? lol
But Granderson will take 1.
What do people think about Reed Johnson as a platoon-mate for Granderson? Last 3 years he’s hit .329 .395 .483 against lefties and plays a beastly left field (when healthy). Obvious issue is having 5 OF.
Yanks just gave up their best, closest to ML-level OF prospect for Granderson. Highly doubt he will be used in a platoon.
Yeah.
Even though he’s struggled mightily against lefties (every other year), you’ve got to let him keep trying and see if he can solve the problem. He’s too young and too important to become a part-time player.
Go check Granderson’s splits. He is the epitome of platoon player.
Just because you say so doesn’t mean the Yanks view him as that. In fact, I’d say it’s quite obvious the Yanks do NOT think of him as a platoon player considering what they gave up to get him.
The question is whether they are right… and whether finding out is worth what they gave up.
Only in odd number years. Check the splits. If nothing else, that should tell you something about the unreliability of single-season platoon splits.
You dont trade for Granderson to platoon him.
Sorry to lose Jackson but Granderson will be a huge pickup for our outfield. Move the Milk to LF and have Granderson at CF and Swish at RF. Sounds good to me!
Dear Curtis Granderson,
Please start hitting LHP.
Sincerely
The Fans
+1
Just read the blurb by Chad at LoHud about A-Jax and I would be lying if I didn’t feel just the slightest twinge of regret.
I hope he blows up in Motown.
Pretty juiced on this deal.
Granderson in the #2 hole against righties
Swisher in the #2 hole against lefties
Thoughts?
This whitey, the sox fan?
sounds like an expensive platoon?
Doesn’t sound like a platoon at all.
Shh…you’re making sense.
Maybe he’s a Mets fan.
http://riveraveblues.com/2009/.....ent-704007
your brain = fail
one plays rf one plays cf. where they hit in the lineup has nothing to do with a platoon PLUS swisher is a switch hitter.
Good move. Hard to argue with getting a known commodity like Granderson in his prime for unknown commodities that may or may not pan out. Now we can dream of K-Long getting him to hit at a respectable level vs lefties.
Nonetheless, I’d expect a power surge from him next in YSIII. He’s an excellent fit for us, definitely the best option we have for the 2-hole.
Thanks AJax and IPK! You fellas did your job as trade bait.
Who’s the common sense platoon partner for him? Melky?
He’s not going to hit at a respectable level vs. lefties without the opportunity to hit vs. lefties. So the common sense platoon partner for Granderson is Granderson.
It saddens me that there will be no more IPK + Melky trades
End of an era.
Any predictions for the new combo du jour?
I’ll go with Melky + Z-Mac for (insert superstar here).
ZMac + Gritner get Pujols.
I vote for Anthony Claggett and Shelley Duncan.
Duncan has to be in this deal to play on his dad’s team.
Fat Sanchez #1 + Fat Sanchez #2?
that’s what prospects are for…time for a new era!
For real.
Actually, since they are now even more impossible, and therefore ridiculous, I think the entertainment value of them is even higher.
Well, from the people not seriously suggesting it, I should say.
So, really, the Yankees traded AJax, IPK and Coke for Curtis Granderson. The fact that Detroit essentially spun IPK and Coke to AZ is irrelevant to the Yankees; so it is not really a three-way trade.
They say even a good trade should hurt. This kinda hurts. I think they sold low on either Jackson or IPK by sending both for one OF, or the Yankees see their ceilings as lower than the many of the rest of us.
No, it is a 3 way trade because it would not of happened without 3 teams involved… You can’t make these trades as 2 separate trades because you can’t be sure the latter team wont back out of it… you know, after you already completed the first trade, leaving you with a player you didn’t want in the first place.
Agreed.
A HUGE, HUGE part of this for Detroit was getting the Scherzer and Schlereth arms in the deal. Without that, the thing probably does not happen.
Good point. I sit corrected.
This is the way the vast majority of “three-way” trades go down. Very rarely does Team A get players (or money, or PTBNL) from B and C, B from A and C, C from A and B, etc. Usually, it can be broken down, in a sense, into two separate two-team trades, but there’s so many backchannel contingencies involved that it is very much a three-way trade.
I do like Granderson, but part of me is definitely dissapointed that we won’t get to see what Jackson will become. I know he’s just a prospect but after hearing about him all this time, definitely sucks a little. But that’s some kind of outfield the Yanks have now!
You’ll see plenty of what he’ll become, just not in pinstripes.
I don’t like giving up IPK but getting rid of A Jax before his value tanks is a godsend, plus this stabilizes the outfield for a while.
Austin Jackson’s value is going to tank?
Not for certain, but there is a very good chance that he will never be worth more than he is right now (not unlike most prospects at the same moment in their career).
Yup. Knock his BABIP down to even .350 and that slash line dips big time.
Jax has been seriously playing baseball for what??? 4 years? He is only going to get better. His value is only going to increase. There are 16 year olds with more baseball experience that Jax. Give him some time, he may really blossom into something.
Yeah he may but odds are against him.
The odds are against every prospect.
http://www.dailymotion.com/vid.....dds_dating (safe)
Haha now Damon’s probably crapping his pants cause his stock just went Waaayyy down in the Yankees eyes
im excited/sad, i hate trading away prospects after watching them develope. all the best to a-jax.
agreed
agreed
Giving up AJax hurts but it should. You are getting a very good player in Granderson. Plus defense and Plus power, all reasonably price and at the ripe at of 27. That would allow the Yankees to not give Damon the 2+ years hes looking for.
Best part of all hopefully no more Halladay to the Yanks.
Grandy is going to be 29 in March.
Thanks for the correction. I should have looked it up.
Jackson and Kennedy was a lot to give up for a guy who declined two straight years to a bad .249/.327/.453 line (worst than Melky) who can’t hit lefties a lick – check out his splits, 2008 is the only year he was even passable against lefties. Maybe it works out, and he reverts back to 2007 or even 2008 form, but Kennedy is a legit starting pitcha and Jackson is their second best prospect (I could care less about Coke).
What makes Kennedy legit? And Melky’s slugging was under .420, and he hasn’t shown to be any better than that. This is a great deal.
I say. Watch him this year in Arizona. As for Melky, you’re missing the point – he was not a good hitter last year – I’m sorry, but .327 OBP is just BAD for a guy hyped as much as Granderson, much less one who hit leadoff. Last year, he would have been (production wise) the 9 hitter in the Yankee lineup, or maybe the 8 hitter, if you want to get picky.
Granderson is a star player the Yanks are getting because he had a bad year… Long and the Stadium will rejuvenate him.
That’s the hope, but there’s no guarantee.
Just like there’s no guarantee with Kennedy or Jackson
You know who else couldn’t hit lefties a lick when we traded for him?
Paul O’Neill
O’Neill’s career OPS vs LH’ers was 0.598 when he came over from Cincy
Granderson’s career OPS vs LH’ers is 0.614.and a year younger than O’Neill was when traded.
Granderson also has OPS’d 84 pts higher on the road over his career.
I remember wondering what the Yankees were thinking when they dealt Roberto Kelly for a platoon RF’er.
We’d be extremely lucky if Grandy turns into O’Neill.
Please, don’t compare O’Neil with Granderson. Just stop.
Why? I think it’s a very valid point made about it.
YES BUT I DON’T LIKE IT BECAUSE IT CONTRADICTS MY PERSONAL GRANDERSON HATE!!!!
You can find a credible exception to any rule, though. Is O’Neill the exception or the rule? I have no idea, but my gut tells me he is the exception. If so, maybe Granderson is another exception, but the odds are against him just like the odds are against Austin Jackson.
Request denied…
Why not? He’s giving a reasonable statistical analysis to suggest Granderson might turn around and be someone special. He’s not saying Curtis Granderson today is Paul O’Neill.
Can’t compare black and white baseball players. Cardinal rule of blogging.
Melk was OPS+ 99. Grand was 100. Grand’s peak/average: 135/113. Melk: 99(this season)/88.
Melk also can’t hit lefties.
I am pissed off
Rage
Would you say you’re “enraged”?
Who gets added with Melky+Igawa+? for a superstar haha
Melky + Nova/Z-mac
good work by cashman…
Now the question is….who hits leadoff???? Jeter or Granderson…
We also got to sign Andy Pettitte, and Matsui/Damon on of the two, and were set for 2010:)
You’re kidding, right? Look at Granderson’s OBP last year, and ask that question again.
I was just doing that, and I’m not fond of the idea of slotting him in second, either.
He’ll feast on fastballs in front of Tex.
Look at Granderson’s OBP last year, and ask that question again.
Counterargument: His OBPs the two years BEFORE last year are solid. .361, .365.
Exactly. The Yankees are betting that last year was a statistical outlier, and that Granderson had a bad year and not a nose-dive. Considering he was only 28 last year, not typically an age where you start a rapid decline in skill, I don;t think it’s a bad bet.
You’re my boy, Scotty Bro.
Fair point, but shouldn’t you get a discount when you’re taking a risk? If Granderson reverts to form the Tigers did them a favor, if he keeps up his 2009 numbers the Yankees did them a HUGE favor by eating his salary through 2012…
Maybe the Yankees in fact wanted to trade major league ready prospects they aren’t high on to clear spots on the 40 man roster, but it just seems like there’s a lot of value you can get from major league ready prospects from teams having a fire sale. Since Jackson has the potential to be better than Granderson and the Yankees included 2 young arms, I’m not thrilled.
I almost expect some juggling to occur in that respect. If Grandy bounces back this season he’s a valid leadoff option, though Jeter is solid there too. It’s a great problem to have!
Best part of this deal? NO MORE ipk / melky trade scenarios.
That’s the worst part.
Not to Axisa:
http://twitter.com/mikeaxisa/status/6471678256
The big three has been broken up.
Who said IPK had no value!
Well, I am pretty peeved that the Yankees get nothing back for him. If all it took was Coke/Jackson, they should’ve just done that trade w/Detroit and left Arizona out of it.
Can’t assume the fallacy of the predetermined outcome there though.
it took more than coke/jackson…it took coke/jackson plus whomever the d’bags sent to detroit too…
Well, I am pretty peeved that the Yankees get nothing back for him. If all it took was Coke/Jackson, they should’ve just done that trade w/Detroit and left Arizona out of it.
You’re looking at this wrong, Matt. It didn’t take only Coke/Jackson. It took a good position player and THREE good arms to convince the Tigers to ship away Granderson AND Jackson.
You can’t divide the trades like that, it doesn’t work that way.
Agreed, there is no way the Tigers trade Edwin Jackson for Scherzer & Schlereth, they needed IPK, therefore they would have asked for him in the Granderson trade.
Yup.
Just look at our outfield now…
Melfky- LF
Granderson- CF
Swisher- RF
2/3 can hit 30 homeruns… this is what the yankees were missing all these years a power hitting outfielder
I dont think Melky can put up the numbers needed at a corner outfield position. His offense is passable at a position like CF because of the defense that is required of the position. They still need to sign an offensive asset to play LF
Named Johnny Damon, perhaps.
I agree, I think you still bring Johnny back, but play it like he’s lost some leverage at the negotiating table
MI-IKE! CAME-RON!
(clap clap clap-clap-clap)
MI-IKE! CAME-RON!
(clap clap clap-clap-clap)
Mike Cameron, Curtis Granderson and Nick Swisher….that outfields nickname??
Soul Patrol (Swisher is cool enough to be black)
FACT: Nick Swisher ghostwrote Michael Jackson’s hit “Black or White”, as well as the entire “Off The Wall” album. FACT.
When you’re getting 30+ HR from CF the need for a big bat in one of the corners is nullified. That’s what makes Granderson so appealing. Granderson in CF and Melk in LF is pretty much bthe same as Melk in CF and Damon in LF except the first one is much, much better defensively.
The whole “numbers needed at a corner outfield position” is such a fallacy when considered in this context. Doesn’t Granderson put up numbers that would be acceptable for a corner OF? (hint: yes) Didn’t Melky put up numbers that were adequate enough for the Yankees to win the WS last season? (hint: yes) So if you’re ok with having them both in the lineup, shouldn’t you base your defensive alignment on defense and your offensive lineup on offense?
Don’t get me wrong, I’m still hoping that they bring back Damon in a LF/DH combo role, but I just don’t like the flaccid “numbers needed at a corner outfield position” argument because the idea of numbers required at certain positions is based largely around having average production at other positions. In other words, so long as the Yankees are getting superior offensive production from other traditionally non-slugger positions (C, SS, 2B, CF), they can carry someone like Melky, even in a corner OF role.
I hope Damon comes back – it makes the team that much stronger – but they can play that negotiation on their own terms now.
Alright, let’s play fantasy manager here.
I think there are a few permutations we could see:
LF: Cabrera
CF: Granderson
DH: Damon
LF: Damon
CF: Granderson
DH: Matsui
LF: Granderson
CF: Cameron
DH: Damon OR Matsui OR outside hire.
Which do you guys think will wind up happening? I’d like #3 a lot.
3 would be great but what about the nonsense of lowering payroll? And don’t we need a starter?
Option 3 with Matsui as DH.
BINGO
Lineup analysis time, using CHONE projections:
5.608 per game.
Ron Burgundy massive erection time, CHONE projections:
100%
And that’s with a .320/.418 OBP/SLG projection for Cameron, that he could easily out do.
Definnitely
#3 sounds ideal.
I love 3 but I think 1 is more realistic. But hell, we’re the Yankees. 3.
Wind up happening? No idea. Personally I think #3 with Matsui is ideal from an offense/defense/payroll standpoint.
#1. Damon gets some LF ABs too to open up DH ABs for Posada, A-Rod, etc.
I’m not a big fan of this trade, basically we gave up Austin Jackson, Phil Coke and Ian Kennedy for Curtis Granderson. I don’t mind parting with Coke and Kennedy but Jackson is the real deal. Granderson may have speed but his batting avg last year was garbage. He is also not as great in Center as people think. Does anyone remember the 2 fly balls to center the last week of the season that Granderson misplayed and cost the Tigers a trip to the postseason. I think this trade was uneccessary. Should have left well enough alone. Everyone dogs Melky, but I will take .280/15/75 out of my #9 hitter in a lineup. This trade will backfire for the Yanks
I prefer the .250/30/71 with the 20SB.
Granderson 2009 OPS+ 100
Melky 2009 OPS+ 99
Granderson, 2004-2008 OPS+: 188
Melky, 2005-2008 OPS+: 84
Large samples >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> small samples
Sorry:
Granderson, 2004-2008 OPS+:
188118Melky, 2005-2008 OPS+: 84
I’ll give you:
Larger sample >>>>>> Large sample
One full season is not a small sample.
In 4 full seasons, he’s had 2 very good OPS+ years and 2 average OPS+ years.
Unfortunately, one of the average ones is most recent.
After reading everything, I feel better about this trade then I did before. I’ve gone from pessimist to optimist here, and I dod look forward to seeing him play in pinstripes.
Yeah, but that is with Melky’s best year coupled with Granderson’s worst.
Granderson may have speed but his batting avg last year was garbage.
A) There’s more to a player than just batting average
B) There’s more to Curtis Granderson than just his batting average from 2009
C) There’s evidence that his 2009 batting average was depressed by plain ol’ bad luck and/or a poorly altered plate approach, two things that will either regress to the mean or be fixed with proper coaching
He is also not as great in Center as people think. Does anyone remember the 2 fly balls to center the last week of the season that Granderson misplayed and cost the Tigers a trip to the postseason.
Large samples >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> small samples. Two badly played balls during one week of one season that you vividly remember in your mind does not make Granderson a poor defensive centerfielder. He’s quite good.
TSJC, sounds like you like the move.
I know I do.
I was always against trading for Granderson when the deal included one of Joba or Hughes.
Getting him for AJax and IPK is palatable. I’ll miss AJax a lot, because he’s a full 7 years younger than Granderson, but AJax also had some legit concerns about his bat, so I can see why we sold on him.
Eww, yeah for Joba or Hughes I’d be fucking furious. But I’m rather pleased. Yankees look to get net value in the trade the way I see it.
Its not going to be the megadeal of ridiculous impactfulness that ESPN will make it out to be, but its a solid move.
And something tells me John Kruk will like it for us. Not sure if that’s a good thing or a bad thing.
He’ll like it, and then say that it means we’re abandoning the youth movement since we traded away Jackson and Kennedy, and say that Coke’s absence means one of Joba or Hughes has to go back to the pen because we’ve created a huge hole back there and we’re in “win-now” mode.
Watch.
I’m trying to like this trade but I agree with you. Coke,Austin and IPK are just too much for Granderson. Perhaps I am too emotionally attached to “OUR” guys but my gut tells me this is not a good trade for the future. It might work well for 2010 and maybe 2011 but after that I think this trade will be viewed as a bust for the Yankees.
I still think they need to sign Damon… Melky is not a LF, the production you just gained in CF will be lost in LF is Melky there
I still hope we sign Damon as DH and sometimes fill in for the outfield. He is still a clutch hitter and we can use Granderson in the 9 spot. Plus, I like Melky better in left field with his descent arm. Hate to see AJax go, but honestly I only knew what I read about him or saw in highlight clips.
http://www.hittrackeronline.co.....ype=hitter
Hello, New Yankee Stadium! Granderson will be Damon 2.0
Or, he’ll do what Giambi did and give up the rest of his offensive game in favor of trying to put everything in the RF seats. And he doesn’t have the batting eye to do that.
There’s upside to this deal, but there’s downside too. Granderson could continue his slide, falling in love with the homer. Or, the Yanks could get him back to using more of the field and he could rebound in a big way.
We’ll see
That graph helps me like the trade a little bit but not enough.
I like it. I think IPK will be a solid 3/4 starter for some other team (lucky for him, that team’s in the NL West), but I wasn’t sold on him being successful in NY.
Sucks to lose AJax, but he has the potential to become what Granderson is now, so I don’t see much of a loss there. Although he has a cooler nickname. Can’t wait for all the “Grandys” coming from Girardi.
I’m not a big Granderson fan, and not as excited as some to get him. But I’m good with the trade because I believe they got value in the deal. Basically I feel the Yanks could wait, and potentially (not that they would) trade Granderson for something we couldn’t trade Coke, IPK, and AJAX for.
Well said, and I agree 100%.
I have reservations about Granderson.
I like AJax and I’m bullish on his future.
I didn’t want to trade AJax in the abstract, or acquire Granderson in the abstract, but the trade value is good, so I support the deal in totality.
I’d like to feel the same way but I don’t.
I understand that. AJax and IPK are good, solid youngsters who are tough to give up.
I’m not super-duper pumped about the deal, because it’s not a Swisher-steal, but I think on the whole, it’s a slight victory for us.
Slight.
Don LaGrecca(?) (WFAN) sounds like a big fan of the deal.
I just hit a HR w/Ajax in MLB ’09.
Just hit another one w/him to give us the lead in the 9th.
MLB ’09 seems to be a bit bullish on his power.
i think losing Kennedy as SP depth next season kinda stinks. other than that, good deal for Cash.
That’s a good point.
We’re gonna need someone like Justin Duchscherer even more now.
Agree. I expect Cashman to go after pitching fairly hard now.
I happen to LOVE this trade. IPK was NEVER one of my favorite Yankees (I remember his rotten attitude in 2008). Coke was a servicable lefthander out of the bullpen (I remember how uncomfortable he was about closing, so not a lot of upside). Losing Jackson may very well hurt, but you have to give something to get something.
As for Granderson, he is only 29 years old, and he has power, and speed. I agree he does not hit lefthanders well (But how many teams have left handed starters that scare anyone?). Assuming the fact, he will hit second, you can throw in the fact that he is surrounded by Jeter, and Teixeira, and Rodriguez hitting cleanup, you can bet he will get a lot more fastballs to hit in the Yankee lineup. Finally, this guy is supposed to be a good guy in the clubhouse (So they are not bringing in a Milton Bradley-type cancer).
Finally, it gives the Yankees more leverage with Damon/Boras, when it comes to his contract demands, while holding on to the most important prospects (Montero, Hughes, Joba & Romine).
Okay … so now which prospect cracks the Yankees top 10 prospects list? I’d love to see Mike’s revised list later today? No rush tho.
Okay … so now which prospect cracks the Yankees top 10 prospects list? I’d love to see Mike’s revised list later today? No rush tho.
Fixed.
Have any teams made this official? I’m on board with not liking this trade. Not sure how IPK and Jackson will turn out, but I like their potential better than getting a guy who has been trending worse for the last 2 years, ending this year with an exactly league average OPS+ of 100.
Do these people follow the Yankees? Did they not see what happened with Nick Swisher? Granderson’s career is very good. One year overrides all of that?
It’s not 1 year, it’s a downward trend. Plus his inability to hit LHP.
Nothing wrong with pointing out a player’s flaws or having concern
No. but Swisher’s bad year looked almost entirely BABiP driven, and it was a one-year outlier. Granderson’s been on a downward trend, especially against lefties. It could be an approach thing, and that could be fixed…but it could also NOT get fixed and he could wind up being useless in every game against Lester, Price, Romero, Kazmir, etc. I’d love it if they got Cameron to add another righty bat to the lineup.
just imagine if damon re-signs.
Jeter SS
Damon DH
Teix 1B
A-Rod 3B
Posada C
Granderson CF
Cano 2B
Swisher RF
Cabrera LF
Jeter SS
DamonDHLF
Teix 1B
A-Rod 3B
Posada C
Matsui DH
Granderson CF
Cano 2B
Swisher RF
Cabrera LF
the 10-man lineup might not work
hmm…none of my markups came through…
i guess you may be able to tell i was making jd the LF and matsui the DH with either the milkman or the landscaper gone.
i prolly should have just stuck to the ‘fruitless hypothetical’ meme instead
You can’t just use the (s)(/s) strikethrough HTML tags, you have to use the (strike)(/strike) ones.
Damon and Matsui…
Jeter SS
Damon LF
Teix 1B
A-Rod 3B
Matsui DH
Posada C
Granderson CF
Cano 2B
Swisher RF
Murderer’s Row.
isn’t that the same lineup as this year, except granderson instead of matsui
worked well, didn’t it?
Screw Damon…you get Matsui now. Our outfield is somewhat set…unless you want to get Cameron to offsight the entire outfield being awful against lefties. Otherwise, you grab Matsui for DH. Melky is in LF.
That way we’re the same team with a younger faster better Granderson instead of Damon…
Not Granderson instead of Matsui…
I agree.
I’d prefer Damon to Matsui just because I’d feel more comfortable with Damon’s OBP skills in the #2 spot and let Granderson hit lower in the lineup. I know he spent a lot of time as the leadoff man in Detroit, but in my eyes, he could be a solid #6 guy with power to support good RBI opportunities as well as the speed to reset the table for the bottom of the order.
I think trying to keep Damon and Matsui is overdoing it, but that was the case even before acquiring Granderson. I think we all suspected that it was going to likely be one or the other. I’d like to see this lineup in 2010:
Jeter SS
Damon LF/DH
Teixeira 1B
Rodriguez 3B
Posada C/DH
Granderson CF
Cano 2B
Swisher RF
Cabrera(/Cervelli) LF(/C)
Damon would play left when Posada (or anyone else besides Damon) is DHing, with Cervelli occupying the “scrappy #9 hitter” role when Posada isn’t behind the dish.
I love having Granderson but I HATE losing both IPK and A-Jax. We can forget trading for Halladay now. Toronto will ask for Joba/Hughes & Montero and there is no way CASH will give up our top 2 (3 if you count IPK) prospects in the same offseason. Looks like we will be going the free agent route for another starter. I hope we sign Lackey but more than likely we’ll be seeing Harden, Sheets, or the Duke in pinstripes next year.
We can forget trading for Halladay now.
I’m more than okay with that.
+1
I’m practically jumping for joy at the idea that the trade for Halladay is now off the table.
It would have been a bad trade for us.
Makes me like the trade more when this is added to it.
I forgot about trading for Halladay a while ago.
I don’t mind losing IPK, he’s fairly replaceable. I’m sure Z-Mac will be happy to take all the NYY prospect hype that came from Kennedy and take it for himself. Honestly, quite a few things would have had to have happened for him to make the 2010 or 2011 starting rotation, most of them things that we wouldn’t hope to happen.
As for A-Jax, I thought Mike put it very well in the chat. Who could we hope A-Jax turns into? Curtis Granderson?
Sooooo…yeah. I fully support the move, very glad we kept Mike Dunn. He’ll be next year’s Phil Coke, but hopefully with more Ks.
I forgot about trading for Halladay a while ago.
You’ve come so far.
/sheds tear
I know!!!
I’m all growed up now
Hey I’m a man who listens to reason and logic. I assess, evaluate, listen to counterarguments, and then repeat as needed.
ietcvm
so i guess we are letting go of johnny damon?
i’ll never forget screaming my ass off when he stole those two bases on a tex AB. balls to the wall.
can we put dunn back in and take schlereth instead?
No. That was never an option, BTW. Never. Not for half a second.
Now sign any 2 combo of Matsui, Damon or Cameron. Melky goes to the revered 4th outfielder spot, and Brett the Jet lands in Scranton.
Yay, Cash Money Trillionaire.
Heh, +1 to all of this.
3 Ws (dot) C-H-A-Millionaire (dot) com
I’m with you 100%, but Brett wouldn’t go to Scranton, he’d stay with the big club.
13-man position player Opening Day Squad:
C-Posada
1B-Tex
2B-Cano
SS-Jeter
3B-ARod
LF-Cameron/Damon
CF-Granderson
RF-Swisher
DH-Damon/Matsui
Bench
C-Cervelli
UTI-Peña
4thOF-Melky
25thMan-Gardner
Scranton needs a hero!
who is that bench dude?
Aren’t we missing an IF with that roster?
and, from the ‘its-not-my-money’ file, why not trade leche or landscaper and make Matsui the DH with Damon or Cameron the 4th OF? i mean, if money has no object…
what’s the major drawback (besides $) to Matsui and Damon-Granderson-Swisher with Melky?
How much cheaper would we get Damon now that we don’t ‘need’ him? OR will Boras make him go somewhere else?
I’m still wondering why the Diamondbacks were so adament about doing this trade. I’m confused. It seems like they got the worst of the deal and they were the originators of it all.
Tigers made out pretty handsomely though.
I’d say the order of winners in this are Tigers, Yankees, D’backs.
Diamondbacks just got 2 decent starting pitchers.
Man, I type slowly.
If Brandon Webb is truly recovered, the NL West just got tighter. Edwin Jackson is going to hold up alot better. The D-Backs could use bounce-back seasons from Drew and Conor Jackson.
Haren-Webb-Jackson is a nice little trio.
And gave up a potential ace.
There are worse sins than risk-mitigation.
If you project they got 2 starting pitchers that will be in their rotation, which I do, they got a good deal.
Tigers > DBacks > Yanks…
Dont like this deal at all
+1
Unless, Granderson stops regressing and starts progressing
Agree.
A-D-A-M-A-N-T
I agree, though. I hate this trade for Arizona.
Adam Ant was an awesome 80′s singer!
Bet he draws more than Jay-Z if he sings opening day!
I think the rule 5 pickup the Yanks will get from the Nats will make this look like a better trade. I am guessing we pickup a LHP to replace Coke in the pen.
we already did that w a healthy marte.
and by kleeping dunn
Yup.
Marte-Dunn-WDLR on the 40-man already, with Kroenke (if not taken in the R5, or if returned) and possibly Bleich right behind him… we’re good on LOOGY depth. No need to make the R5 pick a lefty reliever.
So does this qualify as a fire – sale on the part of the Tigers? What’s the chances that the Tigers are putting Miggy Cabrera on the block now?
Doubt it, on both questions.
A lot of Tiger fans are loving the deal, mainly cause they sold high on Granderson. I don’t like the sound of that… Hopefully this is not the Xavier Nady trade part 2.
Curtis Granderson is not Xavier Nady, for a variety of reasons. And that was a good trade when it was made.
The Nady/Marte trade turned out to be very similiar to the Graham Lloyd trade from 1996. A guy coming out of nowhere (Marte), to get huge outs in big situations. That trade really benefited both the Yankees and the Pirates.
G-R-A-E-M-E
Dude, if I was a Tiger fan I would love this deal too. They got a major haul, regardless of how Granderson works out. This isn’t like the Nady deal, where they traded for a player coming off a career year. If you want to compare it to anything, it would have to be Swisher–getting a younger guy signed for a few years who is coming off a down season but has tons of potential.
Cashman traded spare parts for Swisher. Ajax was a legit prospect.
I don’t think this is a good comparison.
Apples to oranges.
For Swisher, they gave up NOTHING and got 29 homers, the most walks in the AL, and one handsome cat– and I knows handsome.
Sold high on Granderson??? He had an OPS+ of 100 this past year. If anything, they sold low.
Tigers are the clear winner in this trade.
Yes, but that has more to do with the DBack’s puzzling moves then them fleecing the Yankees.
My initial thoughts are great move for the Tigers, good move for the Yankees and bizarre move for the DBacks.
Bingo.
Swapping Granderson for AJax/IPK/Coke is a pretty even trade for both sides. Turning around and swapping IPK and Edwin for Scherzer and Schlereth is a fleecing. Huge win for the Tigers on THAT part of the three-way.
2 years back they wud hv sold high.. now they have sold at his low and gotten a lot… and he has a heavy contract too… dont get this deal
Heavy contract? $8.3M per year for 3 years including a buyout/option for year 4? That’s downright reasonable for just about any team (just not Detroit in this economy) if not outright cheap in relation to the Yankees budget.
They sold high on Edwin Jackson, that’s where they got the most value
Yeah. Good haul for the Tigers and Yankees. It’s the D-Backs who on the surface don’t look so hot.
I liked the Nady/Marte trade a lot when it took place. I still like it.
I still like it too.
1. Jeter SS
2. Johnson DH
3. Tex 1B
4. Arod 3B
5. Damon LF
6. Granderson CF
7. Posada C
8. Cano 2B
9. Swisher RF
We can’t have both Damon and Johnson. You have to remember we need to sign a free agent pitcher also.
Says who? And why? The only FA pitchers to be signed would be depth moves anyway.
Why exactly?
This trade does not cost much for next year and I think prior to the trade it was reasonable to assume the Yankees would sign two bats to replace Damon and Matsui.
Although they might not now, but that doesn’t mean they can’t.
I’m not sure that it was ever a given they would sign two bats. There has been a lot of talk about using the DH spot as a place to rotate their aging players through to keep them in the lineup offensively but give them a break in the field. I think they’d like to keep Damon or Matsui (and I think they still would like to keep one of the two), which makes Granderson more of an upgrade over Melky than a replacement of Damon.
You have to remember we need to sign a free agent pitcher also.
Yup.
His name is Andy Pettitte, and he’s gonna take a 1/12ish.
1. Jeter SS
2. Johnson DH
3. Tex 1B
3. Arod 3B
5. Cameron CF
6. Posada C
7. Granderson LF
8. Cano 2B
9 Swisher RF
I would also be happy with Damon DHing
gave up too much, would have loved to see AJax come thru and develop in NY… totally conflicted on IPK… I hope this means no Damon… time to get younger.. bite the bullet and go with Gardbrera in LF.. cant have the best everywhere… or i will never believe that the word ‘budget’ exists in thir dictionary
this is a total coup for the yanks
What do you guys think of signing a guy like Dye? He seems like he could be a good candidate to play left and provide even more pop to the lineup. Then all you need after that is Andy coming back and we would be all set. You could also DH Dye if you needed to. Thoughts. Maybe im just a greedy Yankee fan but Andy and Dye seem like a good fit to fill out that DH/pitching problem.
Jermaine Dye?
Hell.
Fucking.
No.
Dye can’t field anymore and 2 out of the last 3 years has been an average hitter. So no.
I said it last night and I’ll say it again:
I’d rather eat vomit than have Jermaine Dye on the Yankees.
There’s literally dozens of DH candidates better than Dye.
(Well, maybe one dozen and not dozens.)
Sounds like a friday night in my college days.
Grandy 2010 = Swisher 2009. Book it.
I’m all aboard on this.
This, is what I am hoping for. I can’t agree with the book it, but that there’s a chance makes the trade better than I felt 10 minutes ago.
I’ve seen some of your comments above. I don’t think “regressing” is a fair way to assess Granderson’s past few seasons, mainly for this reason: In 2007, he exploded for a 135 OPS+. In 2008, he “regressed” to a 123 OPS+. As far as I’m concerned, when you’re regressing to a 123 OPS+, I’m not going to be upset. 2009 was really the only year that he’s struggled. Which gives me confidence that it was an isolated down year and he should be able to elevate his performance back to ’07, ’08 levels.
(Yes, I’m aware of his LHP splits. My retort would be, even with those splits, he still had 135 and 123 OPS+’s in ’07 and ’08 respectively as a CF. I’ll take that.)
Grandy 2010 = Swisher 2009. Book it.
Really, though, when you think about it:
Grandy 2010 = Damon 2009. Book it. He’ll take HUGE advantage of that friendly porch and put up a nice offensive line, even if his LHP split isn’t pretty. But, he’ll be doing it from CF, and with sterling defense.
Absolutely. I just meant Grandy = Swisher in the sense that they were both acquired for relatively cheap (given previous values) due to a down year, but will come back to produce at their career norms as Yanks.
Yes, but Granderson was acquired for a blue-chip prospect. Two of them, actually.
Swish wasn’t. Huge difference.
That’s fair – but rewind to one year ago today. Is there any chance in hell we acquire Granderson for Kennedy, A-Jax, and Coke? That’s mainly my point. Yes, Swisher was more of a steal, but taking into account Granderson’s previous value, we were only able to snag him for this particular package due to a poor 2009 (IMO).
Okay, fair enough.
i would like if the yanks resigned matsui now that it looks like granderson is in cf… damon would have taken his share of DH days and now you wont need to rotate at DH as much and matui will have a bigger role. as far as LF goes i may be the only one left who likes gardener over melkey but i like speed.
Granderson should be getting a visit from Kevin Long shortly.
Yup. K-Long just got himself a shiny new toy to work on as a Christmas gift.
i enjoyed this comment and its inference
fangraphs analysis:
http://www.fangraphs.com/blogs.....-big-trade
loves the deal for us, good for tigers and awful for d-backs.
“From the Yankees perspective, this deal is almost too good to be true. Heading into his age 29 season, Granderson is a legitimate +4 win center fielder signed to a bargain contract for the next four years. I ranked him as the 22nd most valuable asset in terms of trade value in baseball over the summer, and the Yankees are getting him for a variety pack of role players. He instantly makes their team better, giving them a legitimate all-star center fielder who should thrive in Yankee Stadium. For as much as the Yankees have a payroll advantage, they continue to win because Brian Cashman targets the right players. Granderson is a fantastic acquisition for them.”
For as much as the Yankees have a payroll advantage, they continue to win because Brian Cashman targets the right players. Granderson is a fantastic acquisition for them.”
::swooooooon:: cashman….
concluded with:
A+ for the Yankees, who continue to show that they know what they’re doing.
concluded with:
A+ for the Yankees, who continue to show that they know what they’re doing by letting cashman handle everything and just shutting up and signing his checks.
missed that, but yeah
as for ajax: “Jackson should be a decent player, though not a star”
If Granderson hits .249 next year, where does that get us? I know, I know, he hit 30 HR… but assuming he leads off or hits second a .249 BA .329 OBP won’t cut it. Dudes only hit .300 once…
We’ve been waiting for AJax for so long now *POOF* gone. And everyone is in love with our new stud in town…
Not sure if this is a win for the Yanks…
Yes, if Granderson only hits at his career low points for the rest of his career then its not that great of a deal.
Why would you assume that is what is going to happen?
The Yankees obviously see some potential in this guy and he is entering his prime years. Yeah, they have to pay a bit more, but this guy is essentially what they wish Ajax could be. They are just paying a little extra money to guarantee a player of that caliber, and getting him in his prime right now.
if you want to talk about .249 BA you have to consider the fact he was only .276 BABIP which is 40 pts lower than his career average, pick that back up to around .315 which is more than reasonable and he is a .275 hitter.
on the flip side A-Jax .300/.354/.405 at SWB but his BABIP was .390 which is obscene. Take him down to just a .345 BABIP (still well above avg) and he is a .270 hitter.
word
the only thing that gives me pause is why is detroit trading a guy with such a team-friendly contract? whatever, granderson should hit 35 hrs in ys3 and by all accounts is a hard worker/good teammate
i hope this doesn’t preclude bringing damon back. i would sign damon to be the primary dh and bat second. when jorge dh’s (30+ games hopefully), damon rests or plays left
detroit has soo much money tied up in miggy, dontrelle willis, bonderman, robertson, and theyre gonna have to pony up for verlander. they traded their two most marketable assets to bring in cost controlled replacements. ajax will be there in a yr or 2 and be there for awhile and for cheap and the y got 2 pitchers who can start/relieve for them now when they will get nothing and/or not want what they get from willis, bonderman/robertson.
for them this worked out amazingly. now they prob have a little breathing room to fill out a roster with quality backups/one mroe mlb starting caliber player and nto go bankrupt. and now, they can pony up for verlander long term and mryankee will weep
Agreed. There is plenty of reason for why the Tigers made this trade. The D-Backs, on the other hand, not sure what they’re doing.
the tigers got two excellent arms for 11 cost controlled years a future cf for 6 and coke for 5, excellent deal for them long term.
Feel like something’s missing.
What’s missing is the fact that you’re not considering that the current economic situation in Detroit is similar to a third-world nation. They tried to be a pillar of the community in 2009, but Ilitch can’t just bankroll red numbers forever. They need to bear down and prepare for a few years of down attendance and down revenue.
forgot about the looming verlander signing. it’s still tough to wrap my brain around the fact that having a bunch of bad contracts means having to trade away your only great one
because i like ajax/coke/ipk and jackson, this is one of those deals i hope works out for all 3 teams (as long as ajax holds off on league domination until 2012 or later)
Its team friendly, but not super cheap overall. I.e. whomever has Granderson is getting value in terms of production vs salary, but still has to pay him 8m+ per year 11-13, and the Tigers have a budget that already includes a ton of terrible contracts.
So anyone worried about Scherzer or IPK’s medicals or are we all assuming this one is going through as is?
Holy fuck! This is happening? I have to wake up earlier this week so I don’t miss any Hot Stove action.
He has to be the CF unless they sign Mike Cameron, right?
Duh.
I just can’t understand why they didn’t go after an outfielder who can hit. We have outfielders who are fast and can’t hit.
Wonder what Bernie is doing next year….
Unless they got Granderson as trade material for a better deal….now that would be interesting…
Lol.
I love when big things happen, all the random people start showing up.
In theory they could centerpiece him for Halladay
Are you in the right blog?
Not hitting?
2006 .260
2007 .302
2008 .280
2009 .249
CAREER .272
Eh.
Yes, batting average. Great metric.
.358.
Career wOBA.
Granderson can hit.
Hideki Matsui hit .274 last year.
Wait:
Both Hideki Matsui AND MELKY CABRERA hit .274 last year.
Your mind, it is blown.
And I meant Bernie, as of this year, would probably not be hitting…
I just can’t understand why they didn’t go after an outfielder who can hit.
We went after an outfielder who could hit. His name is Curtis Granderson. We landed him. There was much rejoicing.
So now that we lost 2 of our most valuable trade chips. Who do you think our free agent starter will/should be?
1. Sheets
2. Lackey
3. Harden
4. Duchscherer
5. Bedard
6. None of the above
The Duke fits the best.
I like all of them except Bedard.
Yep. I’d like Sheets, but someone will offer him a guaranteed starting job.
We should be one of those teams.
No, we shouldn’t, unless Pettitte calls it a career, which is doubtful.
They should plan to roll with CC/A.J./Andy/Joba/Phil as their 5 starters.
That.
I like Duke even more now that A) IPK is gone and B) we have more room on the 40 and 25 man rosters and can give him a spot in the pen waiting for an opening in the rotation.
I just don’t know if he’d agree to that.
We have ways of making him agree.
http://tinyurl.com/5qlrxc (safe)
I highly doubt Duchscherer goes to the Yankees. He has said he wants to start and could probably get a gauranteed spot elsewhere.
Regrettably true.
One of Sheets or Harden are whom I would most prefer.
If Pettitte comes back though, we in theory already have a 1-5 ready for opening day (CC/AJ/Andy/Joba/Phil)
One of Joba/Phil will be in the pen. Hopefully its Joba.
No.
No thank you.
Wow, very impressive haul for the Tigers IMO.
Agreed. I love Scherzer; Verlander, Porcello and Scherzer is pretty nasty 1-2-3
Detroit is clearly unloading their people… If they are trying to rebuild, it seems a Miggy Cabrera trade is next.
they weren’t unloading their people. they were unloading their best trade chips that wouldnt cripple the team but would allow for other needs. scherzer will replace edwin jackson fine, they added 2 bullpen pieces after losing rodney and lyon,and all three pitchers they got are league minimum. They added a comp for granderson who is also league minimum and by freeing up that money they can afford to pony up for verlander and continue to bite the bullet on dontrelle willis, bonderman, robertson, and anyone else they are paying who sucks.
Wouldn’t be surprised if they gave Coke a shot in the rotation.
that is the beauty of this deal for detroit because it saves them 10 mil this year and they lose a bunch of payroll in a year with Ordonez, Bonderman, Willis, Robertson, Inge (59.1 million) all coming off the books after ’10 and having replaced a couple of those spots in this deal with upside cost controlled players.
Provided that Ordoñez doesn’t vest his option again, yes.
Miggy’s not going anywhere. This was the deal they needed to do to be able to NOT have to trade Miggy.
Alright, fair enough. I just wouldn’t be surprised to see the Red Sox make a strong push for a big hitter. Adrian Gonzalez doesnt seem likely, but Miggy maybe.
any chance the option now if you have damon leverage would be sign 2 of damon, cammy, matsui and deal melky to someone like the cubs?
70% of people in the RAB chat either don’t like the deal, or don’t really care.
That’s a lot of love for Austin Jackson, Ian Kennedy, and Phil Coke. I don’t get that.
The plan is coming together:
1. retain Pettitte–almost there
2. trade Jackson+ for Granderson, check.
3. unload Melky or Gardner
4. sign Cameron
5. pickup Murton or equivalent
6. sign one of Damon or Matsui as cheaply as possible
Murton is off to Japan.
Perhaps, I don’t think that is final, but he is not all that unique.
Love it…. But would want dye over Cameron, if I had the choice… which I clearly don’t..
2010 Mike Cameron >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 2010 Jermaine Dye
Not harldy!!! You started off nice with retaining Pettitte and trading for Granderson but unloading Melky/Gardner and signing Cameron/Murton only makes us older. Remeber we need to think young stars not old stars. And besides Murton is on his way to Japan.
Right, so we should’ve just called up Kevin Russo, and let him play CF. He’s young.
[...] physicals, the Yankees have apparently agreed to a three-team trade todaywith Arizona and the Tigers. They filled the void in center by acquiring Curtis Granderson, but [...]
I guess Granderson comes relatively cheap, basically 3 yrs 25 Mill on the books… Have to hope he improves against lefties… and does he bat second in the order behind DJ?
Not crazy about giving up on IPK mostly… was really hoping to see him contribute this year.
damon or swish will probably hit 2nd at least against lefties. if damon is gone granderson probably hits 2nd vs righties.
4 yrs 39 mill if they exercies the option, which unless he falls off a cliff a 33 yr old outfielder who can play center at 13 mil a yr is great…cameron made what, 10 mil this year???
check that math it’s 9.75 a year.
mlbtr has it at 25.75 guaranteed, they were off by 2, it is 23.75, so then it would be 37 mil. EVEN BETTER!
right because the 2 mil is a buyout of the option.
Drew sheds a tear.
the only thing i dislike about this is the LHP splits. Love the lefty power in YSIII, love the very good defense (career-wise). In the worst year of his career (swish had a terrible year at roughly the same time in his career, so I’m not too worried about him suddenly not being a good player), he was as good as melky was in the best year of his (admittedly at age 24, but also during a season in which the presence of brett gardner and girardi’s careful production-maximizing style of management probably helped his numbers). We know, based on what he’s done in the majors in previous years, that Granderson’s capable of something along the lines of 115OPS+, +10 UZR, neither of which has ever been attained by melky.
That said, I had an idea that might not ring nicely with a lot of other people here, but what would you think of an outfield of (left to right) Granderson/Cameron/Melky, with Swish at DH? I know it makes more sense historically to have a better bat in RF than melky’s, but I don’t think it’s unreasonable to expect Melky to play superb defense in right, and put up roughly league-avg offensive numbers for the next few years. It’s unconventional, but it could turn the yanks OF for 2010 into something close to a +25 machine, with a collective 105-110 OPS+. If you consider the wayyyy above average offense the yankees get at every position in the infield, having three hitters not that far above league average in the bottom of your order would not be the worst thing in the world, considering the defensive upgrade.
It doesn’t work as well as a long-term solution, considering the impending decline of Mike Cameron, but for 2010, you’d be getting solid offense and excellent defense at a very good price for your outfield, not to mention having a DH who, unlike damon/matsui, could fill in at either corner position and provide roughly league-avg. defense. I would still say that a lineup of
Jeter SS
Swisher DH
Tex 1B
A-Rod 3B
Posada C
Cano 2B
Granderson LF
Cameron CF
Melky RF
would get the job done offensively (somewhere in the neighborhood of 850 runs), while improving the defense by something in the neighborhood of 30 runs, which could be boosted further by defensive rebounds from A-Rod and Cano and (controversy alert) Tex. Thoughts?
and by superb for melky, i meant in the +5-10 range, not in the Frankie G range
I wouldn’t hate it, but I’d rather see Melky or Gardner sent packing (nothing personal, just business), the other as the 5th OF, Swisher in RF, and a legitimate bat (Matsui/Damon/Johnson/Delgado/there are others I am forgetting) at DH.
In this hypothetical situation I’d slide Cammy between Cano and Granderson.
I would rather sign just re sign Damon and Matsui.
Great trade. Look Kennedy while one of our best prospects is not in the Hughes/Joba strata. His ceiling is probably a #3 pitcher. A-Jack hurts but by the time he is in the league making a real difference-late 2011 maybe 2012. This trade improves our defense, saves money vis a vis Damon, improves our team’s chances of a repeat while the Old Guard core is still with us. Now we can resign Matsui or hell we can use this as leverage to resign both Matsui and Damon to 1 year deals. Basically, the same lineup with Granderson for Melky and Melky gets a whole bunch of at bats as the 4th OF. Now lets get Pettite on board and sign Sheets.
To those completely ecstatic about the trade, what do you think of the declining CF defense and splits against lefties?
granderson’s D isn’t really “declining” – really i think he just had an off UZR year last year. I think he is probably around a +5-+10 defender.
does UZR factor in the ballpark?
No, I believe all parks are considered equal.
UZR does not discriminate!!
Thanks. But obviously not all parks are equal, so wouldnt suprised to see a jump in his UZR.
I was concerned, but as JMK pointed out last night, he’s been playing the massive outfield at Comerica alongside Magglio Ordonez and Carlos Guillen. And he still managed a positive UZR rating this past season.
I don’t think there’s as much to worry about there.
he’s been playing the massive outfield at Comerica alongside Magglio Ordonez and Carlos Guillen. And he still managed a positive UZR rating this past season.
OF size & who he’s playing with doesn’t impact his UZR.
Alright.
Even if I take the UZR part of my comment away, the point is still that playing in smaller park, along side say, Swisher and Cabrera, or Swisher and Cameron, should help his defense.
If he was being poorly positioned in Detroit to try and make up deficiencies by the people around him, then sure.
Defense is always swaying. The fact that he has performed well on defense means he has the body type and talent to do it again. Look @ Mike Cameron. from 04-07 he produced one + URZ season. And he rebounded to become a double digit defender. This is trade is good money.
LOVE IT LOVE IT LOVE IT
what about garbrera?
How does a pinch runner and a 4th OF figure into this?
We have to remember that Detroit’s ballpark and YSIII are two different beasts. That helps.
Like a few people, I have reservations about this trade – it seems a pretty high price to pay for Granderson given how high they seemed to be on Jackson.
Jackson’s numbers in AAA this year were similar to Granderson’s (ignoring the HR totals) in 2005, but Granderson was 2 years older when he hit that level.
I know that can’t really be used to predict Big League performance, but I can’t help thinking we’ve just traded Granderson mark II for the original model, whilst also giving up a useful rotation/bullpen piece in IPK.
ignoring the HR totals
Which is the biggest problem with AJAX game.
Understood.
However, at age 22 Granderson hit 11HR in a full season of A+ ball.
At age 20, Jackson hit 10HR in half a season of A+.
Not saying that Jackson WILL develop power, just that at 22 years old I’m not willing to give up on the fact that it still has time.
Thing is, Granderson turned into a best-case scenario. That’s very rare, you can’t assume AJax follows the same path. If he does, he turns into Granderson anyways
I agree to a point, although I think that assessment still undervalues where Jackson is now, in relation to where players his age generally are.
If Granderson’s best case was to develop to where he is now from hitting AAA at 24 I think Jackson’s best case is potentially higher.
But I’m also a sucker for over-valuing Yankee prospects!
I think Granderson is a good siging, I’m just sorry that it took Jackson to get it done.
How do u ignore the HR totals when comparing Granderson???
You going to ignore Jeters hit totals when comparing him to SS’s?
Because I was comparing his AAA season to that of Jacksons’ and discussing how the development of both players might compare.
So comparing Jeter’s hit totals to other SS’s doesn’t even make sense in that context.
Yanks are hoping Kevin Long can work some of his magic on Granderson as far as his hitting better vs. lefties.
Or just hoping that he improves. Good hitters don’t struggle against left-handers for ever.
They should give him number 21.
Or #6.
+1
I hope they give 6 to someone truly deserving… like Phil Coke’s replacement.
For those of you seriously concerned about this trade, keep this in mind.
Granderson’s 2009 line on the road- .267/.345/.516
Now keep in mind that 2009 is the worst season in Granderson’s career and that YSIII is awesome for left-handed pull hitters.
Ya know what is funny?
The Yankees were supposed to be quiet this winter and once again they are the talk of the town at the winter meetings.
Oh how I’ll miss Phil Coke.
This made me laugh.
Coke won’t miss NY. He’ll probably close in that bullpen.
The ball pointing, lol.
Lol. Oh my god yeah. Every foul ball.
Perfect time to get rid of Coke.
His value will never be as high as it is right now.
I have mixed feelings about the trade. I thought Jackson was their top prospect? Maybe he’s not progressing the way they had hoped.
Jackson was their second-best prospect next to the man-beast that is Jesus Montero. Granderson>>>>AJax in terms of upside and current production
Top prospect?
Nope, meet Jesus Montero.
And even though he’s a loooong way away, it sounds like Slade Heathcott has more upside than Jackson, but obviously much less of a sure thing.
What makes this trade work is Granderson’s age, for the next 3 years he should outproduce A-Jax, and then they Yankees figure it out from there down the line.
With Granderson under control for three years, I am betting the Yanks view Heathcott as probably being ready for the majors by then to take over.
Seems a little soon.
And if not, they’ll be a 40 year old Mike Cameron still ops+’ing at least 104 with stellar D….
In Cashman I trust!
I don’t see this as such a steal though. I guess I see it as a fair deal. I liked Ajax and having a guy like him play outfield on the cheap while we used Granderson’s money to go toward another player. You could have ended up with two impact players, plus Kennedy too.
But, I guess you can’t pass up a +4 win 29 year CF when you don’t have to give up any sure bet prospects, just one projected to be above average and still needs time.
It will be fun to watch Granderson play for Yanks. That is for sure.
The big concern is the lefty splits though. When teams through the lefty specialist at him every time he hits from the 7th inning on, he may be a liability in crunch time, let alone when a lefty starts the game.
throw, not through
You’re worrying about a team bringing in a lefty specialist to face a guy who will probably be hitting 6th or 7th?
Well, he is being touted as an all star top hitting centerfielder, so one would assume he should be effective in late innings. I already said I think the deal is fair for the Tigers and Yanks.
Another advantage is that with Granderson only making 5.5 million this year and only 8.5 next year, it also allows the Yanks to maybe sign someone to a large(r) one or two year deal they might not have otherwise done.
Overall, this deal helps the Yanks immensely the next two years, when we get Granderson on the cheap and AJax and IPK still developing and going through growing pains.
After those two years it gets a bit more murky. If AJax and IPK start producing, and Granderson gets paid either 12 million for one, or 23 million for two, then it might swing out of our favor. That does not even take into account the extra years of production AJax and IPK would give under team control.
The last thing anyone should worry about is a lefty specialist being brought into face the 8th hitter.
well said, bo.
With AJax gone, and Granderson’s salary a known quantity, the Yankees are now free to offer Cameron two years if they want to.
Put Cameron and Granderson in the OF, and you can play 5 infielders.
OK, so that’s a little exaggeration.
well if you sign cammy you could go with an of of granderson lf cammy cf, melky rf and swish dh. could also deal melky or gardner to get some prospects back.
OF D will be sick if/when they sign Cameron.
I’m very aroused.
fuck no. i can’t watch this. i fucking love ajax. coke i dont care about. and ipk is just okay. but goddamn i really didnt want to lose ajax. granderson’s good, but still
I feel ya.
You have to give to get, though, and of our 5 best prospects (Joba/Hughes/Montero/AJax/IPK), we gave the two worst and most flawed by far.
Unless you no longer consider Joba and Hughes “prospects” anymore. Then it’s 2 of the top 3.
In fairness, I would consider those our 5 best young, cost controlled players. They’re not our 5 best prospects.
Its an issue of semantics, but still. Would you consider Evan Longoria to still be a Rays prospect?
I’m including Joba and Hughes in the “prospects” category, because they’re being targeted as players other teams want in trades just like the younger, non MLB vet players of Montero, AJax, etc.
The fact that they’re trade targets makes them “prospects”, in a way.
Anyone not arb eligible is considered a prospect.
useless but fun comparison:
granderson 2009 ops at comerica
.696
granderson 2009 ops at ys3
1.203
if his ops at ys3 in ’10 is 850 it’s a great deal.
i hate following the farm and then they get traded! last year when we traded Tabats i was sad but this year i feel like it hurts more wait until A-jax becomes better than granderson. i heard comparisons of a-jax being compared to auston jackson. as long as the yanks farm is better than system im happy but its not so im not happy! does the yanks farm still rank in the middle now what do you think mike??
You heard that A-jax might one day be as good as Austin Jackson? That’s high praise for a guy to be as good as himself. All kidding aside, I assume you meant Reggie Jackson and honestly Granderson has a lot more potential to turn into Reggie Jackson.
auston jackson is good
This guy is why you dont fall in love with prospects. Some people would rather see a worse player because he came thru the system.
Good trade. You have to give up something to get something. I think next year Yanks will put more premium on position players since the system is lacking unless someone falls to them in the draft.
I’m already envisioning a Crawford – Granderson – Swisher outfield for starting day 2011.
You do that. I will envision another Championship for the Yankees in 2010.
You buy or trade for position players. You draft and focus on premium pitchers. The safer bets
Since when is batting .270 considered great?
I mean… he might get a huge BA/HR boost from Yankee Stadium if fly balls at Tiger Stadium -or whatever it is these days- (Comerica?) become homeruns.
I understand he’s in his prime, and he is what the Yanks want AJax to be, and he’s a good defender, hits for power etc etc… but he better actually hit. And I’m not bringing any fancy splits or statistics into this… no BA on balls in play, no home vs. road, vs. lefties, vs. righties… His BA OVERALL, the one that you see in the newspaper when they post the lineups, better be up near .300 (or at least a higher OBP)…especially if he’s hitting in the one or two hole.
That being said, is this just an example of the Yankees being too impantient to wait for AJax to develop, or do they really see Granderson as an upgrade?
Jesus man. There is more to a player than his BA. Also – there is evidence to believe that this past season had a lot to do with bad luck.
For the final time.
For the final time.
Wishful thinking.
I know there’s more than BA that matters… but if he’s batting leadoff, or second, don’t you want him on base? One of his best assessts are his legs. He gets on more, he steals more, he scores more runs. That’s what we need him to do. We have other guys that can hit home runs for us, we don’t necessarily need him to go up there swinging for the fences- surely it will be tempting with the short porch. It might actually be damaging if he has that kind of mind set, but Girardi and Long probably won’t let him think that way…
i don’t want him batting second. damon or swisher would be much better in that spot. Grandy’s power/speed combination, out of the #7/#8 spot in the lineup, would be SICK.
Then couldn’t you just look at OBP? If you want him on base more…I realize it wasn’t great last year either, but still, being on base would seem to correspond to to OBP, not BA.
yeah, should have put OBP probably.
Since when is batting .270 considered great?
It’s not and never has been. However, Curtis Granderson does other things aside from hit for contact that make him a valuable player.
That being said, is this just an example of the Yankees being too impantient to wait for AJax to develop, or do they really see Granderson as an upgrade?
Curtis Granderson is most definitely an upgrade over Jackson.
Reggie Jackson’s career BA – .262
So, no worries Andrew S, Granderson’s obviously better than Reggie!
Dude, last year their were only four center fielders in the league who hit .300+ and none of them had a third of the home runs that Granderson hit. That’s not fancy splits or statistics, you don’t need to hit .300 in order to be a superstar as long as you have power
Maybe he was injured. A few leetches will fix him right up.
They might consider Slade Heathcott better than AJ and Slade is not that much younger than AJax. Assuming the Yanks will only need one cost controlled outfielder, the other two coming from other means, the Yanks may not have really lost anything real on their future Major League roster.
Three years isn’t much longer?
Younger that is
my bad, I thought it was a two year difference. The Yanks could still think that Slade is better, and will replace AJax in the next two or three years. As long as we have Granderson, we can wait, meaning there is nothing really lost in the long term.
T-R-I-P-L-E S-L-A-S-H
But what’s the 1st part of that? Batting average of course. Must be the most important, that’s why it’s first. Just ignore the other 2.
Not saying it’s the plan, but if this means Melky is in a corner spot, the trade is bad. Period.
Not necessarily.
I’m not a huge fan of Melky on a corner, but with a legit DH, that scenario is much more foreseeable.
Well it isn’t much of a difference, you’re getting 30 HRs in CF, while downgrading at the corner.
while improving defense at the corner
Yeah playing Chad Curtis in left field in 1998 really killed that team.
If they didn’t actually upgrade the outfield, the trade is bad. They had very good DH and a better hitting OF last season… and it didn’t cost Austin Jackson to get them.
We have no evidence yet that this trade factors into the decisions made about LF or DH yet. Too soon to tell.
We know they’d prefer to have Melky relegated to the bench. But there is a budget now, 29 other teams, and not an unlimited amount of options. I am sure they are working on Damon and Cameron.
No, Damon was worth only 3.0 WAR last season (which was a career year and he’s getting old) while Granderson was a 3.4 WAR last season despite playing in a park that killed his offense, corner outfielders that make his defensive stats look worse and the fact that he’s signed for fairly cheap and in the middle of his peak years.
This is an upgrade even if we play Melky in left.
You can’t directly compare Granderson and Damon’s WARs. Give me a break, guy.
Fact: Damon and Matsui are better hitters than Granderson.
Fact: Melky Cabrera is barely adequate as a CF. He drops from there in a corner.
Fact: Damon/Matsui didn’t cost Jackson/Kennedy/Coke.
Fact: As it stands, Damon/Matsui/Coke/Kennedy/Jackson have been “traded” for Granderson.
Fact: As it stands, that’s not a good “trade”
Fact: As it stands, Damon/Matsui/Coke/Kennedy/Jackson have been “traded” for Granderson.
That’s just not how to analyze a trade properly. The Yanks turned two guys everyone overrates and Phil Coke into Curtis Granderson. Matsui and Damon have absolutely nothing to do with it.
Everyone overrated Austin Jackson? He just netted a significant player didn’t he? Or is Granderson overrated? You can’t have it both ways.
The question is whether Jackson the player or trade chip was worth expending here. My argument is that at the moment this is a downgrade, since we don’t have a LF or DH, and we lost two significant trade chips/depth pieces.
We’ll the Yankees have gained 20M+ in cash, which cannot be overshadowed.