Yanks acquire Javy Vazquez for Melky, Dunn
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After an evening of rumors regarding an impending starting pitching trade, the Yankees have acquired Javier Vazquez from the Braves in exchange for Melky Cabrera. As Jon Heyman first reported the Yankees will also ship Mike Dunn and a prospect to Atlanta, and the Braves will send left-handed reliever Boone Logan to the Bronx. Joel Sherman reports that Arodys Vizcaino will be the prospect.
I first speculated last night via Twitter that Vazquez would be the Yanks’ target, and Joel Sherman’s sources told him as much this morning. Although many Yankee fans have bad memories of Vazquez’s time in New York, since being sold too low and too soon by the team, he has not made fewer than 32 starts in a season and has a K/9 IP of 8.7. Plus, this time around, he would not be expected to front the rotation.
Earlier Buster Olney reported that the Yanks had asked the Pirates about Paul Malholm, Zach Duke and Ross Ohlendorf. The Pirates though have not been too inclined to trade their young, cost-controlled arms, and Vazquez is a much better pick-up — especially at that price — than any of the Pittsburgh trifecta.
Yankee fans are already familiar with Vazquez, who spent the 2004 season in the Bronx. He made the All Star Team thanks to a 3.56 ERA and a 1.15 WHIP in 18 starts, however he slumped to a 6.92 ERA and a 1.49 WHIP in the second half due to a tired shoulder. Joe Sherman says the Yanks are concerned about the heavy workloads CC Sabathia, A.J. Burnett, and Andy Pettitte endured last season, and Vazquez will certainly provide protection for that: he’s made at least 32 starts and thrown at least 198 IP every season since 2000. Vazquez has been worth 21.3 wins over replacement over the last four years, which is nothing short of outstanding.
Logan, 25, is just a lefty specialist. He was actually dealt to Atlanta from the White Sox with Vazquez last offseason, and has held lefties to a .266-.333-.398 line against with his sidearm junk. Not great, but serviceable. From what I can tell, he’s out of options, and is arbitration eligible for the first time this year.
As much as it strengthens the team’s rotation, it also weakens their outfield. The leftfield situation currently looks like a Brett Gardner/Jamie Hoffmann platoon, which doesn’t exactly inspire confidence. Whether the Yanks fill this void by going big (Matt Holliday), going medium (Johnny Damon), or going small (Eric Hinske) remains to be seen. Vazquez is owed $11.5M in 2010 (which the Yankees will pay) and will be a free agent after the season, so the Yanks’ payroll unofficially sits around $208M right now.
Photo Credit: John Bazemore, AP
603 Comments
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So, Swisher +…?
Sherman said that they like Swish and Melky.
I like it. I’d rather not deal Swisher for 1 year of him, though.
Wow…that’s be a real nice #3 starter for this year. And Pettitte would be an even stronger #4… Then a steel cage match between Phil Phranchise and Joba for the 5th spot/set-up role…
Please don’t trade Swisher. That just opens another hole in the OF. I know they could go out and resign JD to play LF and move Melky (if he’s not included in a deal) to RF but that goes against their stated younger/more athletic plans.
If they are trading Swisher then who is going to play RF?
If they trade Swisher, I’d have to imagine the Yanks are going to make a play for Holliday. They can’t limp through 2010 with a giant hole in their outfielder with the expectation that they will sign Carl Crawford when he hits free agency.
This. And Holliday is better than Crawford, so why wait a year for an inferior player?
Maybe because Crawford can hit outside of Coors Fields AND in the AL East?
Crawford career ops: .772
Holliday career road ops: .808
And the vast majority of hitters hit better at home (including Craford at .798), so even outside of Coors Holliday will ops well above .800. Also, ops underweights OBP, and Holliday clearly gets on base more than Crawford, home or away.
Matt Holliday in 2009, the one year of his career that he wasn’t a member of the Rockies: 143 wRC+
Carl Crawford’s best offensive season of his career: 126 wRC+
Vazquez is scheduled to make $11.5M this yr. Adding Holliday would really put them over their “budget”. Do you think they’d do that?
You didn’t ask me, but I guess they would. Or Cash has another Ninja move planned. Otherwise they need somebody to replace Swish in the lineup.
Damon comes back. Melky goes
I agree to get Holliday. And on Crawford: I want nothing to do with him. He’ll likely get an even bigger deal then Holliday and the clearly inferior player.
For whom? Swisher? One of Gardner/Melky? I guess the Braves would want an outfielder back. Swisher might be enough to get Vazquez, but Gardbrera probably not, so the Yankees would have to send prospect(s), too.
Of the names rumored yesterday, Vazquez is the one I would like to have the most.
please dear god don’t trade Swisher. He was fantastic for us last year. DONT DO IT CASH!!!!!
He was good, but I’m not sure I’d say fantastic. When you can get a VERY solid #2 starter for your 8th hitter, I think you have to do it, no? Sign Damon and (although most people would disagree) Xavier Nady and let’s go to war.
JD sucks in the OF and is probably going to continue to get worse. Nady just had a second TJ surgery. I’m not sure I want to “go to war” with these two over Swisher.
Most people disagree for a very good reason. He had his 2nd TJS surgery and Dr Andrews previously said he gives 2nd TJSs a 30% success chance.
That’s why its not a good idea to pencil him in as your starting anything for the season, because chances are you’ll be very disappointed
I don’t really want Damon, but if they trade Swish for Vazquez, he could be an okay replacement if they don’t want to pay Holliday.
trading Swisher leaves a very weak outfield. I don’t like this idea, not for Javier Vazquez and his roller coaster performance.
Could it be only young cheap players (Gardbrerra+) which allows the Yankees to keep Swisher, and allows the Braves to sign a free agent?
Would Melky and McAllister be a starting point?
I like the sound of that.
Vasquez sucks!!!! I want them to get someone better. Just sign Sheets, Chapman for the AAA Yanks, and bring in some low risk high reward guys on minor league deals.
Vazquez sucks? Please explain how.
It’s Sal/Bo/whatever other dumb names he uses. Don’t expect intelligence, and you won’t be disappointed.
Oh I’m certainly not expecting intelligence. I just want to see how he can possibly justify this.
You know, I don’t believe at all that he “sucks,” but I’ll give this a shot…
Vazquez in the American League:
Year: ERA, ERA+
2004: 4.91, 92
2006: 4.84, 98
2007: 3.74, 126
2008: 4.67, 98
His great years have all come in the NL, the guy hasn’t really lit the world on fire in the AL.
I think Vazquez makes a perfectly solid 3-4 type starter for this team.
And Melky if hes the one to go is selling high like they should.
Javi “grandslam” vasquez is a first half pitcher, he is not a big game pitcher and even Ozzie Guillen slamed him for it. now we have another playoff choke artist.
and melky? we lost melky? i love that guy. ever since he robbed manny ramirez of a home run at yankee stadium many moons ago. great defense, power arm and funky at bats. not to mention cano is going to have some serious adjustments.
dammit.
I also love melky. His arm presence in the outfield is huge. Not to mention how clutch he was this year after the 7th inning.
The Yankees should just have signed Benny Blankets(sheets) and have been done with the off season unless they were to sign one or 2 more relievers. Joba should be the one going to the pen.
why does everyone seem to think that chapman’s just going to skip the low minors? At this point he’s got one good pitch and not a whole lot of command. calm down on the chapman, people.
This. I believe I’ve heard baseball people say High-A is a likely starting point for him.
Sheets and Vasquez have the same upside. The only difference is that Vasquez has thrown at least 198 innings every year since 2000. I’ll take the guy that is actually going to pitch.
Sheets would be a straight contract signing. In Vasquez, you get a bigger contract than Sheets will likely sign for plus give up players for a one year rental. Don’t get this since it not needed. If they move Hughes or Joba in another deal for a premier LFer then maybe it makes sense.
If Cashman can pull it off without losing Swisher he is the man, but I doubt it. I called this one last week it just makes to much sense for both the Braves and the Yanks. The second part to this is Holliday and if they lose Swisher I have no doubts that they will head in that direction.
only problem now is that Boras gets all his leverage back with Holliday
Cash as a ninja robbing other gm’s in the shadows of te night. Melky as main player from Yankees
This is disappointing. I was hoping it was Lowe or Josh Johnson. I don’t care what Vasquez did recently, I still remember what he did in pinstripes. Plus, we are going to trade Swisher who helps keep our team loose. Not to mention Damon is gone and the two of them definitely keep things lite in the clubhouse. I hope we don’t get Vasquez.
I don’t care what Vasquez did recently, I still remember what he did in pinstripes.
This makes very little sense.
THANK yoU!!
Amen.
so either empty the farm for Johnson or take on Lowe’s ridiculous contract?
i wouldnt want them to trade Swisher either but Vasquez is a very good pitcher and throwing him in the middle of the rotation would be great. dont know if he’d be real happy to end up in NY again though.
Vazquez > Lowe
Vazquez >>>>>>>>> Lowe
Fixed that for you.
You’d honestly rather have Derek Lowe than Javy Vasquez?
And I’m a little bit more concerned about losing Swisher’s production than losing someone who keeps the team loose.
Vazquez is far superior to Lowe. Sure, I’d prefer Johnson, but he would likely cost Montero and more.
Yes this might make their offense weaker, but you win by saving runs or scoring runs. Their pitching staff would be ridiculous!
CC
Javy
Burnett
Pettitte
Joba/Hughes
That’s insane. Better than the Sox, IMO.
Initial reaction: I don’t like this. Obviously we have to see who the Yanks would give up, but I’d imagine they’d have to give up good pieces for Vazquez, and I don’t think that’ll be worth it. I think I’d rather the Yanks keep those pieces and roll with the current rotation, I don’t see Vazquez as such a big upgrade. Whatever, we’ll see how this develops and who’s involved.
Exactly. Vazquez is a classic “sell high” case..after the Yankees already sold low on him once before…ugh.
Wrong. How many times does he need to give you 200+ innings with 200+ strikeouts for you to believe it?
Dude’s had an ERA+ over 100 exactly TWICE since 2003. Last year, at age 33, it jumped to 146. His FIP is a FULL RUN better than in any other season over the same time period. How is that not a sell-high situation?
Stop thinking the NL East is the AL east.
I don’t even know that you can say that with as much conviction as before. Besides, the Phils are in the NL East and Javy more than held his own vs. Howard & crew…
I would call a Swisher-for-Vazquez trade one of my least favorite possibilities for this off-season. It would blow a hole in the outfield as mentioned above (just when I thought they’d fixed it by picking up Granderson!), Vazquez is coming off a great season but has been solidly mediocre in three of his past five years, and it flies in the face of getting younger. I love the depth Swisher provides to the Yankee lineup too: they can bat a guy 8th who’s good for 90 walks a year.
I think it’s a fantastic idea and they should definitely do it.
SI_JonHeyman #yankees, #braves deal will send vazquez, boone logan to ny for melky, lhp mike dunn and a prospect. si.com story up soon
I can live with this as longs as the prospect is no one major.
If Dunn is considered better then the other prospect in this trade (I assume so because his name is mentioned, but that probably means nothing) then this deal would be unbelievable. It woudn’t be fair. The Yankees would annihilate.
Agree. And even if it’s Zach McA, it would still be a major win for the Yanks.
* better than.
Fixed.
wow love that
cash = untouchable
I just saw that. If this is legit I’m on board.
This is good news. Depends on the prospect of course, but I trust Cash not to do anything sublimely stupid.
Boone Logan suck.
I imagine that the Yanks will be signing a lefty from the market.
That’s not even the good old Melky + IPK package.
Keith Law should love this trade for the Yankees right?
I wonder what it will take to get Javy. I like the idea of adding him to the pen, but moving Swisher sure would create a hole in RF. What could the Braves want?
See above.
This goes against Cashman’s principle of getting younger and staying within budget. Atlanta must be picking up part of the salary and/ or other players are involved.
I agree with others, I would take a chance on Sheets or Duch..instead. The Yanks do not have the deepest farm system.
Amen again.
Update by Mike (9:37am): Jon Heyman says the Yanks will acquire Vazquez and lefty reliever Boone Logan for Melky Cabrera, Mike Dunn, and a prospect. Hah.
Wow. Mr Cashman, I salute you.
Heyman- Yankees will acquire Vazquez and Boone Logan for Melky Cabrera, Mike Dunn and a prospect.
While I like Vasquez, I would much rather see us hold on to Swisher, and our prospects, and sign Sheets or Duscherer (however you spell his name), and I really want to get Chapman for the future. I feel like this is a knee jerk reaction by the Yanks for the Sawks signing Lackey. Stay the course, and don’t panic and deal away crucial pieces for a one year rental.
i’m verrrry shaky on this. This could ostensibly force us into acquiring Holliday (and possibly having to overpay for him). For 2010, a lineup of Jeter-Johnson-Tex-A-Rod-Holliday-Posada-Cano-Granderson-Melkner would be sick, and a rotation of CC-AJ-JV-AP-JC would also be terrific, but I’m worried about the financial implications of this. I’m not wholly unsellable, but as for right now, I’m not sold on that trade, if it is indeed what we’re speculating.
That said, having two guys who, despite their inconsistencies, are fairly productive, high-K performers in between CC and Andy would be great. I don’t like keeping phil in the bullpen another year though. He may have a 2011 innings cap of 130 or something after that.
nevermind, just saw the update. I think we need a bigger Hah, though it could depend on the prospect. but who cares, I’ll jump the gun:
HAH.
Look at the update, Swisher isnt in the deal- Melky and Dunn are.
You really need to relax about the budget. It is not your money. You should be happy they spend money the way they do.
Melky, Dunn and a prospect for Javy? Not a bad deal at all, assuming the prospect is not Montero. It’ll probably be Austin Krum. I’ve heard the Braves really like him.
I like the Melkster, but I like this trade.
Everyone likes a good 4th OF.
Update by Mike (9:37am): Jon Heyman says the Yanks will acquire Vazquez and lefty reliever Boone Logan for Melky Cabrera, Mike Dunn, and a prospect. Hah.
That’s STEAL !!!!!! Cashman is the MAN !!!!!!!
Can’t believe they didn’t have to give up Swisher.
WOW !!!!!!!
Depending on the prospect. It seems a little light so the minor leaguer must be pretty decent.
Swisher had a nice season but will make more money in the next couple of years. I believe that in 2011, his salary will be close to 10 million. If you add the luxury tax than it will be be near 13. He could fetch a few prospects while shaving off some money from the payroll so some better pitching could be acquired. Duch and Sheets don’t excite me nor does Lowe for that matter.
I know he is just a throw-in, but Bonne Logan is ATROCIOUS!!!
Not horrible splits against lefties though:
LHP vs. Logan: .266/.333/.398
Nothing to write home about, but not awful.
Didn’t look at his splits. Still can’t see him having a major impact for the Yanks.
I agree with you.
This certainly gives us another reliable arm in the rotation but now we have a hole to fill in LF.
I would still prefer Damon over a long term contract to Holliday/Bay.
What would the payroll be up to with additions of Javier (11.5mil) and Damon (10mil?)
About $205-210 million. It is at about 189 now, plus 21.5 for Javy and Damon (210), minus about 3 for Melky (207).
Wrong, it’s at 208 right now!!
This trade is definitely as biiig as my big chipotle cheesteak from a local Subway restaurant!
Aren’t you sick of the blood stains on your underwear?
Rosenthal now says it is a two for one deal.
Assuming it is the Vazquez/Logan for Melky/Dunn/Prospect (that Heyman said), then the prospect has to be like McAllister or Nova, right?
Wow. The trade, when examined in a vacuum, is a win for the Yankees, IMO. They only drawback is it has compromised the Yankees OF depth, and this means that as of now, Gardner’s the LF.
sick defense as of right now though
True. Can’t complain really, but it’s our job as Yankee fans to constantly worry.
Maybe Granderson moves to LF and Gardner is CF? Great defensive OF.
Improved yes, great no. Granderson in LF is an unknown quantity and Gardner in CF is good but not great and Swish is a nail biter in RF. All that does not add up to great.
This trade stinks! Vasquez excels in the NL/small markets. He can’t handle New York, and Melky is an important part of our club. Please don’t pull the trigger Cash…….
Oaktag.
Oldie but a goodie.
Dunn + Melky for Javy + Logan.
Cashman ninjas.
We have to wait to see who is officially in it and if the Braves pay any of Javier’s contract (Doubtful).
But this move adds rotation depth, strengthens the bullpen with either Joba or Hughes, and allows them to upgrade in LF. Though I am not sure Damon is the right choice now that we pretty much have a full time DH and #2 hole hitter in Johnson. Having someone in LF that can actually play LF would make more sense.
I’m witch-you.
rmember melky was going to get like 3 mil in Arb. so we are saving that.
i think we should trade Gaudin for some prospect, thus saving another 3-4 mil (he would get in Arb.) and get Damon
and we will be set for the season!
Javier Vazquez will be a Type A Free agent after this year. Just would like to point that out.
Yeah but will the Yankees offer him arb? He’s get around 14 million in arbitration.
Vazquez 1 year $14 million. That’s a steal.
True, but $14M for Javy Vazquez isn’t too bad, considering how much Penny, Harden, and Sheets got this year.
good point
Wow. True. Unbelievable. I just went from 6 to midnight.
Watch the Yankees not offer arb cause they dont want the potential of his money on the books for that offseason spending spree
Could the prospect be jamie hoffman, the rule five guy? He is an outfielder and it seemed weird that cash would target him, maybe he had this in mind the whole time. Or he could just be outfield depth
It’s Arodys Vizcaino. That stings, but so be it.
Ouch! Shit.
Dealing away Dunn, who’s the second lefty in the pen now. I’m guessing this opens up a spot for Damon in LF again now. I don’t know about this deal. Should have stayed with what we had, signed a couple of arms, and waited for Crawford next year. Panic move in my opinion. Our OF defense will be notably worse with no Melky out there. Get ready for 145+ games of Damon in LF. Teams will be running wild.
So much for getting younger and more athletic. I guess Damon guilt tripped them in to re-signing him. I expect to hear that announced before Christmas.
one bad year, in a new stadium(that also gave visting LFs problems) does not make Damon a bad defender. Yes he has a noodle arm, but so did Bernie and we survived…
But it improves the rotation. We were lucky last year that CC, Burnett, and Pettitte were able to stay healthy. Adding a reliable arm in Javier is a big deal. It also allows the bullpen to be improved with Joba/Hughes.
Gardner could start in center for a year if they don’t feel like dishing out the money to another LF. Which would make for a sick defensive outfield. Gardner really isn’t that much of a downgrade from Melky.
Um no. Granderson can move to LF and Gardner is in CF. That’s a superior defensive OF than last year. Gardner is more cost-friendly and has options. This also mean that Hoffmann probably sticks around next year in a possible platoon with Gardner (Hoffman plays LF vs LHP)
Running wild like they did this yr? how did the yanks ever win the title with that noodle arm in left??
While i don’t count Damon out, I think the most likely scenario is Gardner to CF and Granderson to LF.
boone logan? anybody know anything about him?
http://www.baseball-reference......bo02.shtml
IF we get Vazquez for Dunn and Melky that’s a steal, regardless of what he did in NY. A great power arm in our ballpark is needed, and he’s still relatively young – 32. I also like the idea of splitting up Melky and Cano to make sure the latter focuses more on baseball and less on clubs, women etc.
That last sentence is awesome in so many ways.
yea, cano won’t be going to clubs anymore. clearly
Yeah only Cano and Melky go out to clubs… Cannot imagine anyone else on the team hangs out with them right? Especially not the white guys…That would be crazy.
gardner in left, Hughes to the pen, eww.
bien comercio, aunque
This pretty much guarantees the Yankees will go out and get a left fielder. Gardner is not starting in left lol
But he could start in CF…just like he did last yr.
I’m guessing they move to sign Damon for another year to play LF. I agree, his defense is awful, but I’m not sure what else the Yankees would be thinking. Regardless, Vazquez for Melky essentially is a steal as long as “the prospect” isn’t anyone with a particularly high ceiling.
I cant say I’m crazy about this trade. I worried that if we lose Melky it’ll mean that Damon’s coming back. I’d love Damon back, just NOT as the starting LF. I guess we’ll have to wait and see what Cash money has up his sleeves.
i wouldn’t want him as dh, either. so that essentially means no Damon
Deal is done. This is a great morning.
YES! Great move!!
Sherman says the prospect is Arodys Vizcaino:
http://twitter.com/nyp_joelshe.....6930841750
That makes me sad a little bit.
Yeah, that does kinda suck.
Agreed, but you have to give to get.
Seconded.
Makes me sad, too. He is still very far away, so I guess it’s acceptable.
FUCK, this is a wack trade! LOL
Sorry, my tourette kicking in. Damn, at least they selling high on Arodys.
Selling high on Melky, I’d say, too.
If this deal happens the way its been reported no one can tell me that Cashman is not one of the top GM’s in baseball.
With Viz as the 3rd prospect stings a bit more.
That means one of Joba/Hughes will be in the pen. My biggest reason to look forward to next year was to see Hughes and Joba in the rotation.
But I guess I cant be too disappointed because the rotation looks damn good for 2010.
Maybe we can reaquire some other bum pitchers that failed in pinstripes (Kevin Brown, Randy Johnson, Carl Pavano, Jared Wright, etc.)?
Maybe we shouldnt judge pitchers on 1 year stats?
really, a half yr.
didn’t we ship you to Atlanta? this is a great deal… stop worrying homie. worst part is losin Arodys
ok vasquez failed by going 14 and 10 and making the all star team hmm intresting
I’ve waited like, 3 years for Melky to be traded. Not to mention this is a steal assuming the prospect is a no-body.
Gotta add some OF depth now, Cash.
So, Gritt Grittner is the starting leftfielder? I can’t see that, honestly. Cash will probably try to upgrade that spot soon.
It is not even like Melky was guaranteed to get better next year or stay the same. He was good in 2006 then sucked for 2 straight years. He was good in 2009 but who knows what you are going to get from him in 2010.
I agree, Melk’s a good trade chip (especially if we can bring back Damon or get DeRosa on the cheap), but Vasquez? He’s suspect in pinstripes!
Waiting on prospect, because that deal is LIGHT for Javy Vazquez
The prospect is Vizcaino.
i as well have mixed feelings about this trade.
Pros:
- We retained swisher, and our top 3 prospects (Joba Hughes Montero)
- Joba goes to the pen
- More depth in rotation
Cons:
- Outfield defense alot worse without a canon in left field
- team chemistry shoots way down even more (Damon, Matsui AND melk were all contributors to clubhouse atmosphere and attitude)
- we have to shell out money for either Damon or Holliday
- IF DAMON RETURNS, WHERE DOES NICK THE STICK HIT IN THE ORDER??
Johnson should still hit second, with Damon batting fifth or sixth.
Joba to the pen is #1 a con, and #2 not likely.
If this trade is as reported, it pretty much assures Damon will be back or they will go after Holliday. There is no way Gardner is handed the starting LF or CF job.
And so ends Chamberlain or Hughes as a starter for 2010. Son of a fucking bitch.
Co-sign. I just can’t get excited about this deal. I know the Yanks got good value, but I hate losing Arodys and I don’t think this deal was necessary. Whatever, we’ll see what the next move is, it’s not like this is definitely the Opening Day roster.
In Cash I trust.
Yeah, I should be happy about this, but I’m not.
The rotation, is pretty solid, though, with CC/AJ/Javy/Andy/Jophil Chamberhughes.
Jophil Chamberhughes
+1
Agreed. They got great value by sending Melky to the NL (he’s an NL type player because of his defensive flexibility) and trading a low level prospect, but I really hate the idea of a permanent switch to the bullpen for Phil.
These things have a way of working themselves out. With Pettitte and A.J. in the mix, I’ll bet that Joba and Hughes both see significant time in the rotation.
Yeah, but if the Yankees don’t play it the right way, one of them will end up in the bullpen and not be properly stretched out to start if need be. This is a relatively short sighted move by the Yankees, IMO.
Were you awake last year? Wasn’t that what everyone was saying when Phil went to the pen in June to accommodate the worldbeaters otherwise known as Wang, Mitre, and Gaudin?
ARODYS????????
FUCK!
So, who’s playing LF? I can’t imagine they’ll stick Gardner out there for 150+ games. He’d be a decent 4th OF. I have to imagine they have plans for another OF, but once you add in Javy’s $11.5 Million salary there’s not much $$ left for another player (assuming they stick to their budget).
^^Arodys Vizcaino is ALSO in the DEAL! what are we doing!
Vazquez was a BUST the first time around and Cashman got RIPPED for it! Now were bringing him back? UH!
well in cashmans defense they brought in vazquez to be a frontline starter last time.
here hes just a middle guy
big difference
hahahaha what a fucking steal. dunn is an unknown in the bullpen and is immediately replaced by boone logan. kinda sucks melky has to go since it weakens the options for left field, but best of luck to the guy.
Has anyone read this:
http://www.fangraphs.com/blogs.....his-weight
?
Evidently Gardner is a -phenomenal- defensive player. I mean, 3.5 WAR based on defense alone. AND he got his average up to .270 last season.
Maybe moving Melky opens up space for Gardner to be a regular next year, and we kill 2 birds with 1 stone.
SSS
Suddenly this deal is turning from: Great! to Fuck this!
I’m off this bandwagon. Boo to this trade so much.
Why, exactly?
you do have to give up something to get something
Because they should get a quality starting pitcher and surrender nothing??
You know if u screw enough GM’s no one will want to work with u
u give to get
CASHMAN IS THE MAN !!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Cashman is in the midst of one of the most outrageous off-seasons. I really am almost speechless.
a) Didn’t offer arbitration to pay Damon and Matsui. I wasn’t sure this was a good idea at the time but it seems like both were good moves. I love that he wasn’t caught up in any ‘nostalgic’ feelings towards the two. Pure business.
b) The Granderson deal was pretty nice move. I will miss IPK and wish him well, but it was a great deal.
c) Nick Johnson on a one year commitment for $5.5 mil.
d) Javy Vasquez for Melky, Dunn and a prospect is amazing.
Is he just smarter than everyone else?
Just became slightly less excited with Arodys in it, but still a very good deal.
Hrm. I don’t agree about your first point (I think they should’ve offered Damon arb), but aside from that, you’re right. Looks pretty good so far. All that remains (barring any other off-season moves of course – they could use more OF depth) is for everything to work out.
You could be right. But playing it safe wasn’t bad – thats for sure. If Damon was offered and he accepted, paying him $15 mil would look pretty nuts right now. I think it showed good foresight.
A bit conservative…yes. But, I think it worked out.
Well, in hindsight it didn’t work out so bad, did it? Maybe if he accepted the Yankees’ off-season would’ve played out differently… But it looks pretty good right now, doesn’t it?
It most certainly does.
Arodys is the prospect according to Sherman
FUCK YES!
I love this move so much.
Bernard makes a good point. Other than praying Pettitte will never retire the Yanks did nothing to improve the 2010 rotation. I didn’t expect Cashman to let the team begin arrivals at Steinbrenner Field Feb. 2010 with Joba/Hughes pencilled in as 4th and 5th starters.
On the other hand – Swisher is far more than just an 8th place hitter. He admittedly surpassed most (everyone’s?) greatest expectations stat-wise but his attitude certainly enhanced the 2009 team.
Now who will hit teh walk offs?
Curtis Granderson says hi.
Cano’s probably going to hit them, in honor of his good buddy Melky.
I’d imagine this opens the door back up for Johnny Damon.
Arodys turns this from being a steal to being a fair deal.
and that’s what deals are supposed to be.
you knew the prospect had to be good if all we were giving back was melky and dunn
Eh, is Arodys immensely talented, yes. But hes 19 and never pitched above short season ball, so given he’s the main prospect in the deal, hardly that big a deal. Vazquez was 4th in Cy Young voting this past season.
So the loser in spring training of Joba/Hughes for the #5 goes to SWB?
I’d hope so.
Honestly, though, is it really fair to determine that though ST? If we’re being realistic, it should be Hughes to SWB because of his lack of innings in ’09.
hes got nothing left for AAA. he’ll get his innings.
Neither one of them has anything left for AAA, but at least they can build innings there. If they’re in the set up role, they’re gonna pitch what? 5 innings a week? Maybe? if someone goes down, it’ll take at least three starts to stretch them out, and at that point it’s a waste because the rest of the bullpen gets fucked. Either put them in AAA to keep their arms fresh or make sure that when they do pitch in relief, they pitch multiple innings (swingman type thing) and not just the “set up” inning.
I agree with your sentiment about needing to build innings in AAA, but unfortunately don’t see it happening. There would be too much crap stirred up by the NY media if Phil/Joba were in AAA getting innings and 5th or 6th guys in the bullpen blow a game.
Highly doubtful. I know Hughes has to get his innings in, but you can rest assured some one (i.e. Pettitte/Joba/Burnett) will go down for an extended period this season. That’s when you stretch Phil out and plug him in. Cashman’s learned not to rely on the young guys, especially not when you’ve got a team with a $200mm+ payroll. Then, next year, Vazquez and Pettitte are off the books, and both Joba/Phil are DEFINITELY part of the 2011 Opening Day 5 man.
This.
Again, I ask “were you around last season?” Hughes got exactly zero starts after he went to the bullpen and fell well short in his desired number of innings, even though people were loudly making the same argument you are now.
Well – timing is everything.
Vazquez
Arodys
Hate to see Vizcaino go, but he is a long ways away from the majors.
exactly. guarantee if they win the WS again no one is going to say; yeah but we had to give up Vizcaino
This.
Feinsand is reporting that this doesn’t reopen the door for Damon.
The Yankees can’t hold on to every good arm they have in the system. You have to lose a high upside guy once in a while. that’s part of the reason that you build a farm.
Personally, I’m stoked that they made two legit trades this winter and dint give up Hughes, joba, Montero or Romine in either of them. That’s a damn good off season.
At least we still have Manny Banuelos!
And Z-Mac and Nova and a horde of others.
This trade bothers me slightly.
- Arodys looked like a very, very nice prospect
- It’s starting to look like our payroll will go up
- It’s starting to look like we’ve lost a bunch of prospects this year
- It’s looking like we have to bring Johnny back at a decent salary
And yet
- It’s starting to look like back to back championships
The prospects/young players the Yankees traded away this year:
Phil Coke
Austin Jackson
Ian Kennedy
Melky Cabrera
Mike Dunn
Arodys Vizcaino
Yep, that is a lot of decent young talent. But look who they acquired:
Curtis Granderson
Javier Vazquez
And look who they didn’t give up:
Phil
Joba
Montero
I’d call that ‘trimming of the bonsai tree’.
Amen.
+ Romine & ManBan
I am very, very surprised. I know Vasquez has the talent, but he had the talent the first time around, too. I never thought he had the “head” for NY, but that’s obviously just a subjective observation. Anybody else feeling a little trepidation about whether he’s a “NY kind of guy”?
I’m feeling a little trepidation as to whether he’s an AL-kind-of-guy, honestly. But, we’ll see what happens. Hopefully talent wins this time.
In three years with the White Sox, Vazquez posted FIPs of 3.86, 3.80, and 3.74 with excellent peripherals.
He was an All-Star the first half and bothered by a tired shoulder in the second half of ’04. Not nearly enough evidence to claim either way. We’ll wait and see.
You’re absolutely right about the first half. I had forgotten, based on the second half struggles he had that year.
It’s easy to do.
There is a LOT less pressure on him now than there was before. Plus, I’d like to believe that there’s more than one way CC shores up a rotation – I’m sure he’ll try to do his best to make sure he feels welcome and all that, aside from making him comfortable pitching in the Yankee rotation.
Nah, A. I think that stuff is kinda bs
B. As the defacto 3rd or 4th starter on the team in which the Yankees didn’t trade a top prospect to get (yes Arodys is good but not AJAX/Montero/Hughes/Joba) there probably won’t be that much pressure on him, at least compared to 2004 when he was suppose to be an ace or #2
Haha, so Mike Dunn was held out of the three way deal just to be included in this deal. Oh life.
I’m amazed Cash pulled this off without including Eric Wordekemper.
That’s the best part. Eric Wordekemper and Brett for Pujols!!!!
IETC
DO IT DO IT, CASH!
IRETC.
yes, i agree about Damon. Damon is going to have to be brought back at more of HIS price… Well, not really, but more than 2/14 because now we need a leftfeilder.
WHERE DOES NICK JOHNSON HIT THOUGH?
I DON’T KNOW ZOMG!!!11!!!1!11
I really worry about bringing Vazquez back. He has never performed in the AL, and he gives up a lot of homers. Big questions on this deal.
There’s so many things wrong with this statement.
Javy Vazquez was not good in Chicago either. I’m almost hoping he gets flipped again for something.
The homers have been in a steady decline since ’07, so that’s encouraging.
The guy did post a era plus of 126 in chicago 1 year. He was right around league average his other 2 seasons there. Also chicago is a hitters park too.
This package isn’t worth league average…
I should be more excited about this but I’m not.
My thoughts exactly.
Who plays LF?
I dont know how excited anyone could be about getting a 4th starter.
The real fireworks will happen when they get a LF because Gardner is not starting in LF.
It just seems kind of unnecessary, and it seems like a deal made with an eye totally on the short-term as opposed to the long-term health of the organization. I’m sure I’m wrong about this, but my quick reaction without really thinking about it too deeply, is that I’m not sure I like the team/org better post-trade than I did pre-trade.
Yea, exactly. It does seem pretty short-sighted, but I do trust that it will work out. The rotation, 1-4, is pretty nuts now and I think most teams would like to have Hughes or Chamberlain as their fifth starters.
I think you are a very knowledgeable fan. I may be wrong, but with some thought, you will come to really like this deal. Moves don’t have to be necessary.
Here’s my thought process right now:
I should love this deal.
But I don’t yet.
Eventually, I will love this deal.
I hear you. You’ll come around soon enough.
I totally agree.
You’re right… I know the deal, in a vacuum, is a win for the Yanks. I’m sure I’ll warm up to it a lot more… And even if I don’t, it’s not like I hate it. All I meant in my comments in this thread is that I’m not dancing in the street about it, that’s all.
I think I’m coming from this angle… I try to look at things, as a fan, and break them down according to what’s best for the Yankees, but at the same time, I’m a fan. And, right now, I’m a fan of Hughes/Joba and I want to see them in the rotation unless/until they get some other, better option. I guess Vazquez qualifies as that option, I’m just not as in love with him as I would be with some of the other options out there that would cost only money (Sheets, Duchscherer). Now, Vazquez is healthy and those guys might not be, so I know there are a million different considerations to take into account when making these comparisons. I’m just not as in love with Vazquez as a lot of other people around here, I guess that’s what it comes down to.
Whatever, I certainly don’t feel like I’m very anti this deal, even in my very early, reactionary state. I’m just not all that moved by it.
I respect that. There is also no need to be black and white about everything. Grays are okay as well. So you can like the fact that the Yankees got better and also added some nice pitching depth. And you can also dislike (as do I) the fact that the Yankees are again pushing off the Joba and Phil era. But in the context of making the team better, I think this trade accomplishes that.
It’s all part of being a fan. There are emotions involved and some people feel that we can completely ignore that. For example, if Swisher was in this deal I would have been so so pissed because I love the guy; not because that a deal involving him would have been so bad.
So, I guess what I’m saying is that on a deeper level, I agree with you.
Javy cannot be very happy about this. One year away from free agency and you are going from the NL East to the AL East. Ouch…
We go from Cash robbing Atlanta, to Atlanta robbing cash… of A-rod
yeah vazquez is a HR machine… jesus…. gave up 33 dingers at OLD yankee stadium
I like the deal except for the Arodys Vizcaino part. But he is so far away that he might never have made anything of himself. Yet he was their 3rd best prospect.
I have no words for how absolutely incredible these last 3 months have been.
Indescribably awesome?
Atlanta realyy likes Melky and Dunn…….and their combined $2.5 million salary.
Looks like Cashman wants to turn the clock back to 2004 and erase the worse moment in Yankee history. What’s next, Soriano to play left field? Let’s hope Red Sox do not sign Damon so that Vasquez doesn’t have opportunity to cough up another slam in Game 7 of AL Championship to him.
thats funny
not surprisingly, we’re paying vazquez’ entire #12M
Liking the deal much. Thank you, Cash.
Moving on: this opens a whole in left field, which I do not expect to be filled by a hoffman/gardner platoon. There’s about $5-6M left for left field (assuming Chapman’s money can do to another budget). So, what’s next? Gardner+ for DeJesus?
ironic we got both nick johnson and javy vazquez back this offseason.
Hmmm does Randy Johnson still want to pitch?
Now we need to get Juan Rivera and Randy Choate.
Get Choate and Juan Rivera too, Cashman!!!
This might be one of the most aggressive off-season title defenses in a long time. Not since Florida won it all in 1997.
sad to lose the other a-rod.
Very much so but who knows if he ever makes it to the bigs. While I say that it is hard to give up a kid who has low 90′s heater already that touches 95 in addition to a cb who flashes plus at times.
And so ends the great Joba the Starter discussion as he now goes back to the pen.
I wonder how the Joba the Starter people will react to this because hes now a reliever. Like he should be.
Nope, it doesn’t. He’s the #5, Hughes starts in the pen.
There goes Bo, can’t be happy or upset about the trade. More happy ’bout assuming he was right all along.
THIS. This is Bo in a nutshell. Doesn’t care about what’s happening with the Yankees as much as he cares about his petty grudges and fights with other commenters.
I usually don’t let it get to me, but it’s just tiring after a while.
Just pointing out the obvious and wondering how all the joba/hughes start at all costs people will react.
I’m happy they added a good starter to bolster the rotation. And happy the pen will now be just as good.
Over/under, starts for Hughes + Joba in 2010: 40.
Take the over, and be ecstatic if it winds up under.
I was wondering why you would say ecstatic if it was under; but that would mean all 5 starters stay healthy
You have zero evidence to support that claim.
How about we all wait till the season starts rather than jumping to conclusions and trying to prove how smart you are?
You really think they’ll put Hughes or Joba in Scranton to start the yr??
The evidence is right in front of you. Thats why Mitre is back. Gaudin. Aceves.
It is so one of these two can continue the shutdown relief brilliance.
I dont get why some are so unhappy that these guys are shutdown relievers.
Because we prefer a guy pitching 200 innings over 70 innings
I was more arguing your claim that it’s Joba that will be back in the bullpen.
And I’m not unhappy with shutdown relievers; I never said anything about that. I was unhappy that you seemed so giddy to call out everyone who doesn’t agree that they should be relievers.
Bo, you remind me of Mariano Rivera in times like this. Your consistency always shines through.
Ian Kennedy, Phil Coke, Mike Dunn, Melky Cabrera, Austin Jackson and Arodys Vizcaino (not confirmed) for Curtis Granderson, Javy Vazquez and Boone Logan
BAM!
Pffffff. Highway robbery.
What’s this AL stuff for Vazquez? This was his first year in Atlanta. Before that, 2 average years and one very good year in Chicago.
vazquez had the 2nd highest WAR in the NL (and 7th in baseball) last season. yes, it was in the NL, but still mighty impressive
Javy for Melky and two prospects?
HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA…
wait, wait a second…
HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA
IETC, gardy your cf now?
Nah, you gotta keep C-Grand there. I think this opens the door for Damon to come back on a smaller deal.
I think Mike likes this trade.
How was this NOT a salary dump by the Braves?
Totally agree.
I’m in fucking shock !!!!!!!!
I hope Nick the Stick punches him in the face, “Just cause”
Fisticuff
Over or Under: 20.5 minutes ’til we need a spillover thread? I’m going slightly over.
Each trade makes me want to go get a PS3 and get ready for the next version of The Show.
Are Yankees taking on all of Vazquez’ salary?
Yes, it appears so.
Makes sense, that’s probably the only way you could get a guy like him for a Melky centered package. I’m with Mike:
HAHAHAHAHAHAHAA!!!!
Vazquez’s career stats vs. Boston: 2-7, 4.23 ERA, .270 BAA…..and this is a “great” trade?!?
For $11.5 million next year I would have prefered a one year deal with Ben Sheets.
Sorry Cashman, you don’t have my support of this deal….
/sits back and waits for the wolves
I think some things are better left untouched/ignored.
yeah, i read somewhere javy was only making starts against boston this year…
Right, because Boston is the only team he’ll pitch against and he’s absolutely incapable of pitching well against them because the numbers say so.
SSS + Ben Sheets hasn’t pitched in over a year $12MM for him is insane.
pretty good stats
That’s a pretty small sample size to base your judgment on, Mark.
I thought A-Rod’s performance in the playoffs finally put to rest the idea that people’s numbers won’t eventually move towards their career averages over a large enough sample size. So if you don’t like Vazquez based on the entirety of his career record, that’s one thing. If you don’t like Vazquez based on his numbers in approximately 10-12 games, well that’s another thing entirely.
Totally disagree….Boston is the gauge we must measure ourselves by given that we play them about 19 times per year and will battle them down to the wire for the Al East title, if not the AL. There should be no debate to this point.
Cashman didn’t see Vazquez as worthy of a second year in pinstripes back in 2005 after his 14-10 4.91 ERA in ’04. Is his performance in 2009 playing in the NL for a small market team, suddenly the sample size we want to use to justify this as a “good trade?
Fool me once, shame on you…fool me twice, shame on me!
hey
that was against ortiz,(when he was still Big Papi), and Manny being Manny…i think Bostons offense is slightly less powerfull this year….
Cashman didn’t see Vazquez as worthy of a second year in pinstripes back in 2005
It’s more likely that Big Stein flipped out and decreed that they must get Randy Johnson.
Totally disagree….Boston is the gauge we must measure ourselves by
So if they win the season series against Boston but don’t make the playoffs it must be a good year. Right? Right??
Cashman didn’t see Vazquez as worthy of a second year in pinstripes back in 2005 after his 14-10 4.91 ERA in ‘04
Via Mark Feinsand: “Keep in mind, Brian Cashman never really wanted to deal Vazquez away. He was forced into making the Randy Johnson deal by higher-ups.”
Is his performance in 2009 playing in the NL for a small market team, suddenly the sample size we want to use to justify this as a “good trade?
Is his second half in 2004 suddenly the sample size you want to use to justify this as a “bad trade”?
FUN WITH HUMBERS.
Burnett’s 2008 ERA v. Red Sox = 2.60
His 2009 ERA v. Red Sox = 8.85
You can’t predict baseball, folks. If Cashman were to NOT make a deal like this one for Javy based on stats against the Red Sox he would be a fool.
Mark, I would never say that you look only at his performance last year. Rather, I was saying you should look at the ENTIRETY of his career.. The good years and the bad. Make your judgment based on all of the information, not just a piece of it.
Also, obviously the games against Boston are more important the games against the Royals, etc. My point was that his overall career numbers give a better indication of how he will do against Boston in the future than the 10-12 starts he had against Boston in past. Those 10-12 games constitute an incredible small sample size. The hundreds of starts he has had in his career constitute a much larger sample size. Numbers from a large sample size are a better indicator of future performance than numbers from a small sample size.
Just like A-Rod’s overall career numbers give a better indication of how he will do in future playoff games than the four games from his playoff series of 2007.
Considering the Sox averaged ~5.4 runs per game last year, I’ll gladly take a 4.23 ERA. That said evaluating the trade based on the pitchers career numbers against one team is essentially ridiculous, especially given it represents ~2.7% of his career innings.
Ben Sheets on the other hand has never faced the Sox, so who knows how we should evaluate him.
Vazquez’s career stats vs. Boston: 2-7, 4.23 ERA, .270 BAA…..and this is a “great” trade?!?
Firstly, that’s above league average performance against an above-average offense, with most of the stats accrued in two parks (CWS and BOS) that reward hitters. These numbers are GOOD and you are holding them up as bad?
Secondly, your entire attack on the deal rests on a tiny subset of Vazquez’ starts. That’s just silly. Especially when — as mentioned directly above — the numbers are not bad at all.
Boo hiss to you, sir. Boo hiss.
http://newyork.yankees.mlb.com.....id=5273943
See, I can play with SSS too.
One other thought on the Arodys thing: We seem to be big time players in the Chapman sweeptstakes. Could our willingness to include Arodys mean that we feel confident in signing Chapman? If so, then there is little harm in including Arodys in a trade for a starter of Vazquez’ stature who can help the Yankees next year.
In fact, an Arodys for Chapman trade is a net plus for our farm system.
I would expect one has nothing to do with the other. I can’t see how having one prospect would impact the decision to sign another prospect.
I’m with you, Matt. The two concepts are not related. You build your farm system partly so you can make trades like this. If they sign Chapman, it would simply be more of the same, although I expect they’d do it more with an eye to helping the big club.
I could be wrong, but don’t teams look at their farm system as a collection of assets? As such, wouldn’t they be more willing to remove an asset from the farm system if they felt they had a good chance at replacing that asset with one of equal or greater value?
For example, wouldn’t the Yankees willingness to part with Romine or Montero be affected by the fact that the other catcher would still be in the system?
Since I know very little about how teams manage farm sytems, this question is not rhetorical.
Yeah with redundancy teams are more willing to trade young players, we see this frequently.
However given that we’re talking about pitchers no where near the majors, this is less likely to be true, since you need/have room for many more pitchers than any other position and especially given that one pitcher, is not signed, and has a number of suitors, therefore shouldn’t be considered a lock until the ink is dry on the contract
Since its not rhetorical, I’ll offer my opinion. I expect the Yankees have a soft-budget for international and rule 4 signings each year, and they are going to sign the best possible players, as determined by their scouting staff, according to an organizational philosophy handed down by Cashman. Their job is to provide a replenishing source of talent.
Cashman’s, entirely separate from that, will harvest that talent in a variety of ways.
So I don’t think the presence of Aroldis Chapman enters Cashman’s mind when making this trade. In order for him to be a factor, he would need to be in the organization.
My perception is that you’re correct. Obviously, the decision to go after Chapman or not is one more of $$ and talent evaluation. However (though since they don’t have chapman yet, I don’t know that it applies here), having two similar assets, or feeling confident that you can replace one, makes it easier to trade one. Having Pena made it easy to trade Alberto Gonzalez. Having Gardner makes it easier to trade Melky, and so on.
I dunno, I don’t like this deal much at all. Not really so much what the Yankees gave up, but because the Yankees now not only lack a LF, but Javy’s salary should, once and for all, end the Damon and Holliday talk.
And Javy’s not posting a sub 3 ERA again…and we all remember how much of a gutless coward he was in 2004…and 2008 with Chicago.
u are right. he was a gutless coward in the AL. even his own manager in Chicago said it.
that said hes not expected to do the heavy lifting and he can just be a guy. hopefully the less pressure works for him
Ozzie Guillen is a great evaluator of talent, he forced KW to trade Swisher after 1 season, great move
u are right. he was a gutless coward in the AL. even his own manager in Chicago said it.
Unless you had an Ozzie-to-English dictionary handy, I question he actually said that.
And if he did, he’s a dumbass. You’re going to take him seriously? This guy found at-bats for DeWayne Wise, after all.
I’ll take the 200-inning, consistently under 4.00 FIP gutless coward every day and twice on Sundays over the gutty, balls-of-steel pitcher who doesn’t deserve to sniff the gutless coward’s jock when it comes to strikeouts and walks.
2004 dead shoulder post all star.
Ozzie Guillen say that? Oy. A major sphincter. Who cares who he’s berating?
The guy is a very servicable starting pitcher we got on a salary dump, Melky and a someday maybe good prospect.
Life is good.
Well, indirectly, after all these years, and with the addition of a couple of players here and there, we could say we finally traded
Melky + IPK for Javier Vazquez and Curtis Granderson.
Who called this one?
+ Ajax
I had Albert Pujols & Roy Halladay
Ninja.
http://tinyurl.com/yjmpd3n
Ha.
Me three.
we all need to remember that jeter and arod are basically on the bad side of 30 at this point…..this is our 4 year run…. glory days of the 90′s here we come baby
is this definitely a better choice than sheets?
Vasquez: 198+ innings every year since 2000.
Sheets: 200+ innings four out of eight years.
I’m a big Ben Sheets fan, and maybe he’ll come back healthy, but I’d say Vasquez is much more of a sure thing.
their top levels look about the same to me
i just hope they can afford damon now!
Oh they can afford Damon, but I still don’t see them signing him to play LF every day.
As I was advocating, while Sheets has the higher upside, what we need right now is a proven innings eater to sub for when CC/AJ/AP miss starts and/or Joba/Phil hit their innings ceilings… Though have to admit, would`ve taken Marquis at 2yr/15mil than JV for (net) 8mil/1yr and give up Melky/prospects…..
Though have to admit, would`ve taken Marquis at 2yr/15mil than JV for (net) 8mil/1yr and give up Melky/prospects….
No. A thousand times no.
yes and no. sheets = high risk. healthy at his best, a better pitcher. javy = stability. you basically know you are getting 30 starts, which is what i think the yanks wanted.
if sheets was serious about 10+ guaranteed than yes.
at least vazquez is healthy
We were never going to see Arody’s in the majors. The world is going to end in 2012…
probably, we still have a lot of high upside guys on the farm plus chamberlain and Hughes; brackman, betances, stoneburner, warren is blossoming
I’m surprised at myself for even thinking about this, b/c I’m not a big “psychology” guy, but what kind of effect will trading Melky have on Cano? I’d assume (and would like to believe) none, but they were best buds, and Cano isn’t immunes to pouting from time to time.
Am I overthinking this. Probably.
hes a professional. he better get over it. not likes they’re married
Weird rationale, but okay…
What’s a good Braves blog? Judging by comments on one of them, we can better judge this. Hah
http://www.talkingchop.com/200.....vazquez-to
Following up…is it possible we’re getting Montero and then we’ll flip him for a big bat? Then I could live with this…
Lol.
put yourself in a braves fans head. would u be happy about losing a sp who finished 4th in the cy voting for melky? a cf with little power and dunn an erratic lefty and some 19 yr old?
They are not happy
I love the trade. You can never have enough starters and proven veterans. 4th in Cy Young voting is good enough for me.
As for Bret in left, I hope so. How can anyone complain about our defense when Grandy/Gardner is such an improvement over Melky/Damon and we won it all anyway. A few less homers and a few less outfield assists will be more than compensated for with speed and getting to more balls in my opinion.
holliday is very good defensively as well. just saying
Umm … based on?
Source: Fangraphs.com
/barry’d
Cashman, show me the Chapman!
IETC
Everyone says it’s a good deal, and I understand it strengthens us this year. But taking on 11+ million for Vasquez and getting a 5+ ERA pitcher in Logan while giving up a switch-hitting every-day CFer, and two good prospects… how is that a steal for the Yankees?
http://bit.ly/92URtV (safe)
Melky and Dunn were replaceable, somewhat easily too. Arodys stings, but he’s in short season ball. Far from a sure thing.
Agreed, that is the only thing that is helping me cope with the deal.
I agree, and since Melky doesn’t project to be an above average corner outfielder, and Gardner makes a better backup outfielder I see where you are coming from. Just wary of a guy who is mid-30′s and had his breakout season when he moved to the NL. Still a good 4th-5th starter though.
isn’t he in his early 30′s? like 32?
Agree. To me, Vasquesz is an average pitcher whose durability is his main asset. Now, Yanks have a gapping hole in LF-signing Damon makes a great offensive team better, but his defense stinks. Gardner is not a starting LFr. This tells me they either are going after Holliday, signing someone like Damon, DeRosa or Byrd, or trading for a proven OFr.
To me, Vasquesz is an average pitcher whose durability is his main asset.
Whew! Lucky for us, baseball player performance isn’t dictated by Frank’s opinion of the player.
We have mountains of evidence that Vazquez has been league average or better (often far, far better) for several consecutive years, and not just by virtue of his innings/start totals. It’s been a rare off year that Vazquez has dipped *down* to league average.
And here’s your ESPN headline!
“Braves get Cabrera, Dunn”
http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/.....id=4764085
Not sure, but that headline might be missing something significant.
Are you trying to give us a glimmer of hope that Arodys is not included in the trade? I am more likely to believe that ESPN just didn’t include Arodys because they think he’s a throw in scrub.
no. that wasn’t my point.
One could think: “Orlando Cabrera and Adam Dunn?”
OK, let’s try again–the total headline is “Braves Get Cabrera, Dunn.” Most famous on-the-block Cabrera? He’d be in Detroit. So how’d the Braves get Adam Dunn while dealing with Detroit?
The only headline that makes sense here, IF you will mention only one side, is to write “Yankees get Vazquez.”
But I’m not sure why you need mention only one side. What’s wrong with “Yanks get Vazquez for Cabrera, Dunn?”
HAHA, ignoring Vazquez completely. That’s priceless.
Got to give Cashman credit. He sold Melky high.
A 4th OF but a solid 200+ inning starter is good value.
Who knew Melky + IPK would get us Granderson and Vasquez. Thats a pretty decent flip,no? Melky might never be as good as Granderson and IPK might never be as good as Vasquez.
Why are you ignoring the prospects? Am I missing something?
There’s a tradition of people suggesting crazy trades for Melky + IPK.
You’r forgetting A.J. and A.V.
Attn: Brandon: looks like our Melky argument this morning was for nothing!
Gardner is a better fielder than Granderson. I think you’ll be seeing Grandy in LF next year…
I’d rather roll with Gardy in left. The production Granderson would put up at a premium spot on the field is more important than having a bat in LF just because.
This.
I want Gardner in LF.
Gardner is a better fielder than Granderson. I think you’ll be seeing Grandy in LF next year…
With pretty much every team in baseball looking for pitching how the hell is a package centered around Melky Cabrera the best the Braves could do for a guy who finished 4th in the CY Young?
this!
we’re sending 500k along as well? nice.
I like this trade because forget W/L for a moment. Javi is an innings eater and will save our Big 3s arms. Forget the last time he was in the Pin stripes. He was an allstar and pitched 2 solid seasons for Chicago.
I’m not happy we got rid of Melky at all though. I’m fine with the other prospects we gave up.
I’m still skeptical about this deal. LF is a real concern now.
I’m sorry, I don’t understand how anyone can not like this deal.
Cashman traded a replacement level CF, the 2nd lefty in the pen, and a promising yet very young and far away prospect for a solid starter and a token lefty.
Take away all the names and examine the deal based on their actual careers and realistic outlooks.
Arodys hurts, I agree with that opinion, but you have to give up something. And he’s so far away.
shoulda signed damon on the low end before the trade was made though
there’s something in the works. You can count on that.
Actually, I meant something else (not Damon) in the works.
Last I heard Damon wanted 2 yrs $20 mil.
Cashman is good, in fact, he has no equal.
But he can’t bend spoons with his mind and Jedi mind trick players to accept lower contracts, yet.
If he’s still gonna take that 2/$20MM, do it.
According to the post, the payroll is at 208 million.
They can’t go any higher in my opinion.
“I don’t understand how anyone can not like this deal”
Vazquez didn’t exactly set the world on fire in his first stint here (14-10, 4.91 ERA), has shown he cannot beat Boston (2-7, 4.23 ERA)and hasn’t been anything but an average to below average MLB pitcher during his entire career. Those are the facts.
To this I ask, why is anyone thrilled with this deal?
OAKTAG
AJ Burnett’s ERA at Fenway pre-2009–0.53
AJ Burnett’s ERA at Fenway 2009–14.21
why does past performance, especially 5 years ago, matter that much?
pwned
Are you by chance, eating a microwave bean burrito?
He eats ‘em frozen. Can’t wait.
Makes sense.
Don’t go the “can’t beat Boston” route. Please. It’s a waste of time and energy on your part.
Would you have rather given up someone much closer to the bigs like Nova or McAllister or Arodys?
I vote Arodys
Eh, I rather keep the upside regardless of how far they are away. This is the Yankees, no prospect will be making an impact for our team unless they are elite. Arodys could of been elite, lefty type of Roy Oswalt pitcher.
good point. And with Vazquez in the mix, the close to major league ready depth does not really matter anymore.
He’s right-handed.
So he would a right-handed version of a lefty Roy Oswalt? I could see that.
Ha. To be honest I did not even read past the 1st sentence
Kind of early to make that type of statement.
Everyone of you saying how bad Vasquez was for us in 2004 are morons. He was also the “ace” or #2 on ’04…he is now your 4. Big friggin difference. Even coming from NL back to the AL, he matches up well with most of the league’s #4′s. But I’m sure you would love to see Mitre or Gaudid than Javy right? Plus, he is older, I’m sure he knows how to pitch a little more.
Biggest flaw of the trade is no serious LF option. But plenty of mid level sort of players to grab out there…including bringing Damon back if they wanted to exceed their “budget”.
That’s right, because when you are an Ace, you only face the opposing teams #1 lineup. This year, Javy will face the opposing team’s #4 lineup.
What, that’s not how it works?
You’re right about 2004 being mostly irrelevant, but not for the right reason.
I could see the Yankees bring back Xavier Nady now.
How did this trade have any effect on his recovery from TJ surgery? If they though he was ready to contribute, they would have gotten in touch with himbefore, I guess.
He won’t be pitching. He won’t be throwing curveballs or sliders. He will, in fact, be doing the equivilant of long toss. He should be ready by ST.
If he is ready to swing a bat in ST, I’m all for bringing him back. Playing LF he would also not be asked to make too many long throws, I guess. Do you, or anybody else, know, how TJ surgery effects your ability to bat? I honestly have no idea, whatsoever.
Eh…I dunno. Coming back from TJS #2 is rough.
Maybe though. If Nady is healthy that would be cool.
That’d be tough Andy. 2nd TJ, and for 3 or 4 mil more you can get Damon.
Once again, he’s not a pitcher. The 2nd TJ is irrelevant.
Is that the case? I thought it was still tougher to rehab from, even from a position player. I’ll take your word for it though, you know your shit.
So long as Nady is good to go at the start of ST, I agree.
No no, I was only saying that in regards to him being an injury risk. sorry homie.
Now that I stopped laughing long enough at both the people who don’t like this deal and the Braves this was a NO BRAINER.
They are giving up Melky (who I like by the way), Mike Dunn (who somehow has become a deal maker or breaker this off season), and Arodys Vizcaino (a kid from New York-Penn League that I haven’t even heard of to today- Sorry Mike A. I’m still working on learning the minors) for 15-10 /2.87/238 k/44 walks in 219 innings.
Cashman should be arrest.
Arodys ranks in our top 5 prospects. Wirey frame lefty with HIGH upside.
Ok he played in NEW YORK_ PENN LEAGUE last year so come on please. I’m not saying that this kid might not have a great future, but how can anyone be judged by 1 year in the New York-Penn League. This is where you guys lose me with the prospects stuff.
Oh I was just giving you a quick blurb on who the guy was, I thought you were semi-asking. And at some point all great players in the majors was most likely in the low minors. So let’s not right off Arodys like he is just a little shmo who will never amount to anything. The upside is there and thats one of the main factors you go for in prospects.
Didn’t mean to come off rude, but read around you I think people are getting a little carry away. I understand your point and I’m not writing the kid off, but sometimes it seems like every Yankees prospect is winner. Lets try and keep things in proper perspective.
BTW Javier Vázquez will probably get them a Type A if he walks next year that might make-up for the Arodys lose.
GRITner in LF makes no sense.
You have to maximize defensive value and GRITner > Granderson
Where their bats are in the field doesn’t matter at all.
Actually, it matters quite a bit. Why was Bernie Williams so valuable in the late ’90′s? Because his bat was incredible for his position. Now, granted, C-Grand ain’t puttin’ up Bernie numbers in CF, but he’s still putting up good numbers. Move him to LF and he’s an above average hitting LF. Keep him in CF and he’s one of the top hitters at his position.
You’re seriously making that argument?
Whatever optimizes the defense the most is the right move to make.
+98743565
But does Brett in CF really significantly improve our defense? I am not sure the sample size justifies a clear cut statement that Brett is a better defensive CFer than Granderson. I don’t think the minor (if any) defensive cost justifies moving around the more valuable player. Brett is the more replaceable player and it is more likely that an outfield upgrade in 2011 will come from a corner than in center. Keeping Granderson in CF now prevents us from having to move Granderson back to CF if we acquire a corner OF upgrade in the future.
BUt if the roster is the same, it really doesn’t matter, Matt. Granderson in CF may be an elite bat, but Gardner playing LF makes his bat just that much worse compared to average.
That’s true.
Yes, but if you are playing Granderson and Gardner in the same outfield, then you want the best defender playing CF, regardless of bat. Granderson is a good CF who can hit, so if they sign, say, Matt Holliday, then you’re getting above average production from our CF.
But if you’re going to play both Gardner and Grandy in the same outfield, where they play doesn’t mean anything. It’s the same offensive output regardless. Playing Gardner still sacrifices the marginal advantage of Granderson’s offensive abilities.
And for the record, I could live with Gardner is center, so long as he is what he seemed to be last year (.270/.350 bat, plus defender), and I think it’s reasonable to wager that he is. Though I would also be down with Damon in LF, or Holliday at this point.
To sum up: Cashman = Ninja
The binder will have a chapter on Grit vs Grandy in the OF to be determined in spring training including 60 yard dash and throwing contests..
In the binder we trust.
Yanks should let Nady go….
just kinda thinking outloud maybe thinking crazy
but do u think if the marlins called and said we will trade u johnson for hughes and joba and a prospect not named romine or jesus.
Would that ever happen?
Would we do it?
I’m sure the Marlins would ask, but I’m also sure that deal never happens.
Does this make Chad Gaudin expendable? Cutting him saves 2.5 mil and could make it easier to get a real LFer
If that’s true, his pink slip is already in the mail.
They’d have to trade him and get someone to take the money. If they cut him, they’d have to pay him.
They already tendered him a contract, can’t just cut him
Bubba Crosby is our starting CF.
IETC.
Can’t be, Sheffield killed him in the ALDS in 2005.
They will bring Damon back next…
When you consider the Yanks are replacing Dunn with Boone, they obtained Vazquez for Melky and Arodys?
That’s just a WOW!
I’m getting a little weirded out by the constant yammering that we have to get a leftfielder now. Gardner is awfully close to Melky in overall value. Stick Brett in CF and Grandy in left. The lineup is devastating even with Brett batting ninth, and the sick outfield D makes it worthwhile, *particularly* with our new flyball-inducing ace who should never have left in the first place.
Welcome home, Javy. Great to see you back.
You must admit the Yankees now have 2 starting outfielders, and 2 bench outfielders. If you want to say that platooning Gardner/Hoffman could be a productive outfielder because of their defensive value, then fine. But if Colin Curtis makes the 25 man, then the Yankees are short an outfielder.
If Gardner is a bench OF, then so was Melky, at least based on last year’s numbers.
2009 Gardner wOBA: .337
2009 Melky wOBA .331
This helps get to the crux of my point. I’m not sure how to project Gardner and Melky going forward, to be honest. It does look fairly certain, though, that based on all available evidence, the difference between them will not be steep at all. Taking offense and defense into account, Gardner may well prove to be the better player (*and* he’s cheaper).
Last season, Gardner didn’t even need his superior defense to be more valuable than Melky.
We didn’t create a hole in the outfield. If we did, then there already was one, and about the same depth, too. The difference is that we’ve added an excellent, durable pitcher to a rotation that was very lucky health-wise last season. If in the process we dug an existing hole a notch deeper, then I’m fine with that trade-off.
Well, I think our rotation is now on par with the Red Sox, at least 1 through 5
The rotation was on par with the Red Sox before this trade.
IMHO, that’s a slight over estimation, but you can certainly argue for that.
better.
Then again, maybe I’m more than just being slightly pessimistic here. Maybe the top 3 of Lester/Beckett/Lackey just scares me. Haha.
We still have to pick up a 3rd or 4th or 5th outfielder, No?
I’m guessing it’s a 4th OF.
Looks like Hoffmann will make the roster, though.
I think the Yanks now need a righty bat to caddy for Granderson
Let’s see, we take on $11 million in additional salary for a ONE YEAR RENTAL for a guy with an ERA over 4.00 in the AL PLUS give up the third best prospect, a high upside pitcher at that, as well as, a good lefty prospect after having already trader a lefty earlier and the only real LF starter currently on the roster — DO NOT AGREE — WE ARE NOT AMUSED. We did get a lefty in return with less upside than the one we gave up.
-What do we do in LF?
-How are we getting younger if we have trading away our younger players?
-Will we ever give our premier young pitching prospects a chance?
-How does this equal staying within budget? (assuming we absolutely need to get a LFer now.)
Arodys is right-handed and finished the year in a short-season league. It hurts to lose him, no doubt, he was probably my favorite prospect, but Vazquez should provide good value for the one year and then offer him arb, let him walk, and collect the picks.
Yankee fans would have wanted him to become the 7th inning guy so I think Cash got good value for him.
/kidding
//sort of
-What do we do in LF?
Throw Gardner out there for one year. He’s about the same as Melky at the plate–a little more speed, a little more on-base skill, a little less power–but better in the field.
-How are we getting younger if we have trading away our younger players?
It’s a one year deal, not a long term deal, and I doubt that Melky and Mike Dunn were big time pieces to the Yankee future.
-Will we ever give our premier young pitching prospects a chance?
The Yankees haven’t traded Chamberlain, Hughes, Montero, Romine, Nova, McAllister, etc., who have much more of a chance of impacting the big league team than AV did. Those guys are all going to get their chances in the next two-three years.
Throw Gardner out there for one year. He’s about the same as Melky at the plate–a little more speed, a little more on-base skill, a little less power–but better in the field.
Or, swap him and Granderson
Word. Good job laying it down, you summed it up nicely.
http://tinyurl.com/yfmmzm6
You are right it is a one year deal, that is the point ,a one year rental that was not needed – take on large contract and give up players when, again, it is not needed – still don’t get it. Plus deplete OF depth in an organization with almost no OF depth. All while having announced a plan to get younger and stick to a budget, just don’t get it.
Doesnt have to be 1 year.
The problem is, its the nature of the beast, that for Yankees, only the elite pitching prospects will ever make it to the majors as starters. Even Hughes and Joba are having a hard time cracking the rotation. So I would rather keep a high upside guy like Arodys then a McAllister or Nova who will likely NOT ever make his place in the Yankee rotation. Of course, they are good for depth, but we already have Hughes and others for that.
Good point
MattG says:
December 22nd, 2009 at 10:38 am
That’s right, because when you are an Ace, you only face the opposing teams #1 lineup. This year, Javy will face the opposing team’s #4 lineup.
What, that’s not how it works?
You’re right about 2004 being mostly irrelevant, but not for the right reason.
If you believe hitters is what makes you win you can look at it like that, I believe pitching wins and loses ballgames, We couldnt hit Cliff Lee worth a lick, but we beat their 3 and 4, I would take my chances with Javy as a 3 and 4 pitching better than most teams 3′s and 4′s agains’t other teams #1 lineups…as you say.
But Im sure you’re a professional scout somewhere….scouring the RAB comments.
You know, you can reply to MattG’s comments by using the reply button.
IETCVM! BWAHAHAHA
“If you believe hitters is what makes you win you can look at it like that”
You are aware that pitchers pitch the ball to hitters, right? And a pitcher’s performance cannot be separated from the hitter’s performance?
“We couldnt hit Cliff Lee worth a lick, but we beat their 3 and 4″
That might be because their #3 and #4 starters weren’t as good as Cliff Lee. That seems more relevant than saying we beat them because they were the 3rd and 4th starters, as you are doing here.
“I would take my chances with Javy as a 3 and 4 pitching better than most teams 3’s and 4’s agains’t other teams #1 lineups…as you say.”
Yes, so, in those rare occasions, at the very start of the season, and right after the all-star break, where rotations might match up, and where Javy Vazquez might start against the opposing teams #4 starter, he is likely to get additional run support that will lead to a win. And this makes him different from any other pitcher in the league how? This will make him a better pitcher than the 2004 version of himself how? He’ll get more wins?
The pitcher he is pitching against has absolutely no bearing on how Javy Vazquez pitches. None. It is the players with bats in their hands that impact Vazquez’s performance. It doesn’t matter if he is a #1 or a #5. The only thing different might be his w/l record, only when the rotations match up, and only because of run support. Its completely useless information.
What might be relevant is that there will be less pressure on Javy to break a losing streak, or come up big all the time. But he had that pressure in Atlanta and did just fine with it, so one could argue the lack of pressure is a bad thing. Who knows?
He will probably be a type A in the off season next year and we will offer arbitration and he will probably be looking for a long term deal at 33 so we should get a good prospect back. This is all moot after we win our second w.s. in two years
Didn’t even think of this. We’ll get ourselves some draft picks from the guy. Hmm, one more plus.
Isn’t it possible the Yanks could start Hughes in AAA and let him pitch 100-120 innings before they bring him up a little after the All Star break and stick him in the pen for the stretch run/playoffs?
Yes, and I hope that’s what they do. Control his innings a bit, let him hit his limit, then next year he joins the rotation.
Im all about him being a starter, but he has more value setting up, as does Joba if they choose him, in the mlb. If you send either to aaa, boone logan doesn’t fill the hole.
But is the step up to Hughes from a D-Rob/Marte set-up platoon really that big? I don’t think it is and at some point, like they did w/Joba in ’09, they’ve gotta start thinking about the future.
While he may have more value in 2010 setting up for the Major League team, Phil Hughes as a starter has much much more value to the Yankees organization from 2010+ than Phil Hughes in the pen in 2010.
Listen, I totally agree. I want Hughes starting, always have, always will. But if I have to choose between having him in AAA, or in the majors, I’d rather see them do what they did last year. That’s just me though.
Kid is what 23? Won’t exactly hinder his development having him set up, and he helps the team now.
“Won’t exactly hinder his development having him set up, and he helps the team now.”
Except it does hinder him, because then he’s on another inning limit next year
I don’t know why people keeping brining up his “limiot.” Yes I’m sure he’ll have one but I doubt it’s going to be as bad as Joba’s. He’s good for 160 innings at least.
Yes, but if he spends the whole year in the Yankees pen, he’ll pitch like 70 innings this yr and that’ll hamstring him for 2011. That’s letting him be a starter in AAA for half the season makes sense.
Vazquez does the four things you want a pitcher to do.
1) Pitches innings.
2) Doesn’t allow hits.
3) Doesn’t walk many.
4) Strikes out a lot.
5) Doesn’t allow too many homeruns, for a flyball guy.
2004 was a blip. He had one good half season, one mediocre half season (which may have been injury-influenced).
ERA DOES NOT TELL THE WHOLE STORY, PEOPLE.
Bah, 5 things (I added one after writing four).
I = fail.
1.2 HR/9 (career) is a bit high, but it’s been trending the right way.
I’ve seen this kind of comment a couple of times here, but I think it’s a bit of a stretch.
HR/9:
2007: 1.2
2008: 1.1
2009: 0.8
I mean, yeah, it has gone down… But the 2007 and 2008 rates are practically identical, and then the rate went down last year when he was in the NL. Technically, you could call that a trend, but I think that’s a bit of a stretch, really. Calling it a trend without giving any context is a little misleading.
Fair enough.
Hence the ‘for a flyball pitcher’.
Derosa next, coinciding with Gaudin being shipped out?
I’d like to keep Gaudin on, actually. Using he and Aceves as multi-inning options out of the BP would be valuable.
I’d like to keep him as well, but if budget is truly a concern, and they do want to upgrade in LF, something’s got to give soon.
+1
If Gaudin could harness his control better, the way he misses bats could be good for the Yanks.
Sounds good. Maybe get a cost controlled lefty reliever for Gaudin?
Or…could we possibly get like, Matt Thornton for him?
This definitely makes DeRosa more likely. I’d be cool with that team.
Doesn’t Javier Vazquez profile as a Type A free agent? Trading Arodys Vizcaino might be made up for by the draft picks that they may acquire. Melky and Dunn were easily replaceable.
I wonder what Cashman will do about LF.
True, unless something ridiculous happens this year to Javy, they could be looking at two draft picks.
Yeah, he was a type A for the 2008-2009 ranking, and his expiring year is an ERA+ of 98, therefore fairly easy to recreate.
Called it.
Congrats, Kreskin, you were the only one.
::makes wanking motion with hand::
IETC
The move is a little reactionary, but maybe necessary. JV has seemed to improve his craft over the past two seasons, and should be solid for this year.
Gives us a veteran arm that at worse allows us to not pitch AJ on 3 days rest in the playoffs anymore.
His one year contract still lets us sign a big money FA(s) next year.
Corallary to the trade: The Angels now have no where to turn for starting pitching, they overpay for Piniero, and watch Texas and Seattle compete for the division, unless Weaver gives them a Cy Young season.
This is my actual “handle” I think it’s called.
strange to think the Halos couldn’t/wouldnt put together a better deal for him – their need is clearly pitching, and Rivera is better than Melky anyway
I don’t know what they are thinking.
They might be standing pat this year and gearing up for Lee, Beckett, Webb.
Might not be a bad idae, but then again, JV has a one year contract.
If I’m an angels fan right now, besides being a towel waving idiot, I want rip the terrible mustache off of my GM’s face.
I’m just happy I’m not a Halos fan
Like someone else just pointed out, Vazquez should also net us two draft picks after this year since he’ll more than likely be a Type A FA. The helps compensate for the trade just being for a rental.
Do wins go into the compensation calculation? If so, our offense and bullpen can help JV with that.
Vizcaino may not even be in the deal. Only Sherman has mentioned anything about him. Olney has not one other than Melky and unn going to Atlanta.
O’Brien also has Vizciano going to ATL.
Aylanta papers have him as well in the deal, but are calling him a shortstop….
It would be nice if Arodyz wasnt in the deal, but then the Yankees would have definetily just stolen Vazquez
Well, assuming we don’t resign Damon I’ll say this: the Yankees better have Jesus Montero start training in the outfield in Spring Training. As a hitter he’ll probably start in Scranton; defensively he’s not a great catcher. Romine sounds more like the guy of the future. Plus Cervelli will probably be a capable part-timer until Romine is ready. But the outfield is looking a bit thing (not that I was high on Melky anyway). If he’s close to ML ready as a hitter they need to find a spot for him, which could be LF.
Have some patience. The kid is what, 20? He’s has been improving his catching ability give him a chance before wiriting him off. Yankees see him as a catcher and if he proves he cannot handle it then he won’t catch. We have no evidence that he absolutely cannot handle catching.
good deal but i do not trust Javi in any big games. He got shipped out of Chicago because they lost faith in him.
They also shipped out Swisher because they lost faith in him.
Nice, smooth counter.
Ozzie Guillen isn’t the best at handling personalities.
Also they lost faith in him, traded him, and he went on to have his best pro season (albeit in the NL)
This is robbery. Great trade. Isn’t this deal pretty much the same as the Yankees trading CC for Matt Diaz?
Eh, more like AJ for Matt Diaz, but either way, WIN!!
Melky!
We lose Dunn, but Phil is back in the pen (not that I agree with that).
So…Grab an extra outfielder and call it an off season? Maybe grab Chapman as a Boxing Day present?
Any chance we flip JV to the Halos for Juan Rivera?
That’s a joke right?
Rivera was part of the Vazquez trade – very comparable to Melky.
sarcasm…sorry.
Just wanted to be on the same page.
espn’s story doesn’t mention vizcaino or another prospect being involved.
first 2 pararagraphs read:
“The New York Yankees have acquired right-hander Javier Vazquez from the Atlanta Braves for outfielder Melky Cabrera and left-hander Mike Dunn, sources told ESPN The Magazine senior writer Buster Olney.
The Braves also are sending right-hander Boone Logan to the Yankees, sources said, and the Yankees are sending the Braves $500,000 in the transaction.”
is it possible it’s just the 2 for 2?
ESPN is typically the last to report the prospects involved in a trade. They have it as a PTBNL on Sportscenter right now.
it’s funny. they just updated the story (11:05) and still no mention
Feinsand says trading Melky doesn’t mean the team is likely to bring back Damon.
Melky =( Today is a very Sad Day
The only way now that the yankees change my moood is if they go and get a huge addition in LF say Matt Holliday ?
Wait…you’re in a BAD mood after this deal?
Look at it dispassionately: The Yankees just got a bunch better, without making a move that will hamstring them long-term.
You need Holliday signed to make up for the loss of Melky?
Yes i do.
ESPN is saying just money not arodys. That’s even better. Anyone no for sure???
That is indeed better.
I don’t know, every other source has Viz in the deal. If they really got away with Viz in the deal….. it’d be even all more Shaolin Style.
Rosenthal mentions “and a Class-A pitcher”, and Fangraphs specifically identifies Vizcaino:
http://msn.foxsports.com/mlb/s.....uez-122209
http://www.fangraphs.com/blogs.....zquez-deal
Even with the salary relief, the Braves don’t do the deal without Vizcaino. As good as Dunn’s arm is, his control isn’t there just yet, and Melky is Melky.
Losing Vizcaino hurts some, but Javy is an excellent pickup. We can pencil him in for 200 innings and an ERA just south of 4.50 in the AL East.
I finally get it. Last year’s team lacked two things the Yankees have had over the last decade:
1) A high priced pitcher that tanked
2) A player that hit the DL and hamstrung the team in doing so.
So this off season they have taken the steps to address both of those deficiencies.
In Vasquez, you bring back the high priced pitcher that tanked the last time his was with the team.
In Johnson, you bring back a player that is very, very familiar with the Yankee’s DL.
Whew, I’m glad we filled those two needs.
I can’t believe you are complaining this much.
Hey just a passionate fan. BTW, the last piece was just simple humor, lighten up.
Hey don’t tell me to lighten up.
:flips bar stool over:
Nothing about that comment screams ‘this is sarcasm/humor.’ You might want to work on that.
In fact, even after your response, I don’t know if you believe those things you wrote above or if you were being sarcastic. If it was “simple humor,” I would think that means you don’t actually believe the things you wrote in that comment. Is that accurate, or do you actually believe those things? If you believe those things then it wasn’t humorous at all.
Mike Pop, I had a LOL moment, thanks for your understanding humor.
The Honorable Congressman Mondesi, well you tag says it all.
Last time Johnson was looked at as a key long-term player for the Yanks, and Javy was the young anchor pitcher they Yanks needed since Guidry came up to build a rotation around.
This time, Johnson will likely get less than 400 AB’s and Vasquez will be at the back of the rotation eating innings otherwise given away by Mitre/Gaudin/Wang/etc. last year – which not only kills the ‘pen bailing them out but he potentially could win a few games otherwise lost.
Melky likely had his greatest value this year to the Yanks as he would have been the RH caddy to Granderson and played some LF as well with alot less pressure – and with no RH bat for left or on the bench you can be assured another trade/signing is on the horizon for the OF
Arodys best case scenario probably was Javy. Very good # 2 but not a # 1 ace type pitcher.
yes but vizcaino would have been under team’s control for several years at a very cheap price. vasquez is just for one year at 11.5MM. I like the deal but this argument is no good.
But Vazquez is likely to be a Type A, so draft well and you may get two guys under team control.
Yes, Vizcaino would have been, several years from now, under team control for several years. And may — someday — have been as good as Javy Vasquez.
Melkman’s hit off Lidge was one of my favorite moments of the season (not including the playoffs).
That was great , i knew the kid had more potential too =(
“This trade is a steal”
“This is robbery”
Yes. Add this to the list of reasons why the Yanks have an advantage over other teams…
The ability to take on premiere player salary dumps at little to no cost.
Other reasons:
The ability to absorb “bad signings” (Igawa, Pavano)
The ability to outbid other teams for multiple free agents (Burnett, Teixeira)
The ability to retain multiple premiere players post-arbitration (Jeter, Posada, Rivera)
They are abiding the rules of the system, but the system is broken and it’s becoming harder and harder to be a loyal fan.
You know when it’s hard to be a loyal fan? When your team signs Jason Kendall to a 2-year-deal.
Except when they can send him to the minors and sign someone else…Igawa
Self-hating Yankee fan alert.
It’s been covered around here alot.
Only the Yankees eat 90% of their starting SS to move him, then eat 100% of their next starting SS, then 9m of 12m for their 3B, not thats another team.
And when the Royals stop spending 60m+ on Guillen, Jacobs, Crisp, Bloomquist, Kendall, Farnswroth, Cruz then we’ll care.
Seriously, this is my logic. The Royals don’t suck because of thriftiness, but rather because they make the worst decisions ever.
Exactly, the Royals make some terrible moves, which is why they have trouble competing.
So it’s Cashman’s fault that Atlanta took on Vazquez’s salary last year and decided they couldn’t continue to pay it?
So it’s Cashman’s fault that Atlanta took on Vazquez’s salary last year AND grossly overpaid for Lowe, forcing them to move their best pitcher?
Mark DeRosa now seems like a good option for Left Field.
Not at his current asking price.
are we trying to bring back a team from the dead ? 1st Johnson and now Vasquez ?
Redeem team.
I think this deal, together with the Granderson trade, prove the budget talk was nonsense. The Yanks are clearly willing to pay whatever it takes to put the best team on the field next year. And if that’s the case, they should sign Holliday to play LF. The only real argument against him is financial, and we’re seeing that that’s not the consideration many of us assumed it was.
True, but you have to remember the Vazquez is on a one year deal – not quite the situation the Yankees will enter in if they sign Holliday, who will probably at 18M+ over 4 or 5 years. And for what they gave up, you can’t really argue against the trade – sans Vizcaino perhaps, but one can argue that there are plenty of raw, high upside pitchers out there, and besides, having Joba/Hughes, and CC/AJ mean that the farm has plenty of time to restock for arms.
im not sure how i feel about this
arodys was our #3 prospect and melky was an average offensive guy with plus defense. still young.
i like javy but we gave more than seattle gave for cliff lee.
Dave Cameron:
“Vazquez is a quality pitcher and the Braves will miss him, no doubt, but they saved roughly $8 million in salary (once you account for Melky’s arbitration award), added a league average outfielder and one of the best young arms in baseball. Perhaps it isn’t the price that top flight starters used to command, but when viewed in today’s market, this is a pretty decent deal for Atlanta. This is a significantly better return than what Philadelphia got for Cliff Lee, for instance.”
Arodys is a 19 years old A-baller. Yeah, he’s got lots of upside and promise, but he’s still years away with many tests to pass before he’s ready to be brought up to the major leagues. And then he still has to prove that he can be successful there.
Need more Melky and Mary Carey YouTube videos!
Sad to see the Melk Man go… but pitching trumps a 4th outfielder any day of the week.. Love this trade for so many reason… one last thing to do IMO,… pull the Trigger on De Rosa and call it an off season…
54 days till spring training…
We’re also now left to get a bargain bin guy to play LF. perhaps Dye? and swisher to left?
Dye cannot play the field.
don’t be so picky, we don’t have much room to work with
lol, yea we do, believe it or not on most teams the #9 batter sucks.
He’s not being picky. Dye cannot play the field.
Jerimaine Dye UZR last 4 seasons
-22.5
-21.6
-19.4
-20.0
It looks like De Rosa could come for 5-7 Mil… maybe a similar contract to NJ’s
Where is payroll now?
196 or so
Here is to hoping that he is our fifth starter. Joba should hopefully be better than him next year. His AL stats are not exactly overwhelming, although the guy does go out there every fifth day. I guess for Melky and Dunn it is not that bad for a year of Javy.
Since we lost dunn…….and coke now. Whos our lefty besides marte? can’t be boone logan.
Look at his split. Great against Lefties. Horrid again Righties. He’s a Lefty specialist.
Joe Beimel should be cheap and good enough to fill the LOOGY role, especially if Marte is back to being Marte. I wouldn’t mind the team signing him.
Trading for Matt Thornton of the CWS for the right price could also work.
Why did I think Beimel signed?
It is.
A second lefty is a bit of a luxury anyway, no? And, if it’s really that big of an issue, there’s always WDLR, who’s basically Dunn anyway.
Yeah it’s Logan, not that a 2nd lefty is necessary. But Logan just needs to stay away from righties.
its Holliday time… =]
Cash has a plan on getting Holliday or a top LF bat….
I like the deal alot – Vazquez as a #4 starter is pretty incredible. He didn’t want to leave NY, even after the bad second half and the Damon bomb, I think he will be real good and he’s got something to prove.
I do think they now get a LFer – and if they get someone in who can play good D and post a 780 ops, I think that would be more than fine.
Would like to see them work a deal for DeJesus, but they can go so many ways – don’t need a star, just a solid guy.
I’ll miss Melk, but I won’t miss all the griping about him, hope he does well in Atlanta.
Let’s move the Vazquez talk into this new thread. This one’s getting too crowded.
[...] Javier Vazquez back in the fold and the Yanks enjoying a glut of Major League starters, the team may look to capitalize on this [...]
[...] Yankees have brought Javy Vazquez (back) to the Bronx in exchange for Melky Cabrera, Mike Dunn and Arodys Vizcaino. The Yanks will also get lefty [...]
[...] 22, 2009 by William Gibbons Let’s break this down real quick. With the addition of Javier Vasquez this morning, the Yankee rotation became a lot more secure. It’s not CC, AJ, Andy, and then a big old [...]
[...] 22, 2009 by William Gibbons Let’s break this down real quick. With the addition of Javier Vasquez this morning, the Yankee rotation became a lot more secure. It’s not CC, AJ, Andy, and then a big old [...]
[...] this morning the Yankees shipped Melky Cabrera and two prospects to Atlanta for Javy Vazquez and a store brand lefty reliever. It’s no [...]
[...] In a trade involving Melky Cabrera, Mike Dunn, Arodys Vizcaino and Boone Logan, the Yanks had found their starter. With a healthy skepticism of Vazquez’s previous tenure in the Bronx, we thought Cashman was [...]