Dec
10

Open Thread: Start spreading the news, I’m leaving today

By

In terms of Winter Meetings activity, I’m spoiled. This was my second year attending the event, and both years the Yankees made big moves. This doesn’t happen every year, nor does it happen for every team. I just got lucky, I suppose. The activity definitely made the trip to Indianapolis and the half-mile walks in the bitter cold and wind a bit more enjoyable.

By the time you read this, I’ll be back in the greatest city on earth. If you ever need a reason to further appreciate New York, spend a few days in Indianapolis. It’s not a bad place, but damn, it is not New York.

After a week of spending most of my time parked in the press room, I got to know a few people. I also have many people to thank. So here goes.

First, the readers. Holy crap, guys. Tuesday was our best day ever, over 70,000 page views — better than the day after the World Series. There are tons of Yankees sites out there, and we’re damn glad to have you as readers. If you guys ever need anything from us, our email addresses are in the sidebar. And we have that nifty tip box, too, which goes to all three of us.

As for the people in Indy, I’d really like to thank the Yanks beat writers who sat near me. This wasn’t by design, actually. I came in on the first day and found an ideal spot: kinda towards the front, straight on with the podium. It’s what Mike and I did last year, and it worked. As it turns out, three Yanks beat writers were a row behind me, and about 10 minutes after I got here another one sat down next to me.

The week was much more entertaining thanks to Marc Carig, Bryan Hoch, Chad Jennings, and Pete Caldera. They’re good, funny guys who made the stuffy press room a much better environment. Plus, now every time I hear someone say, “Oh really?” I’ll laugh a little. So thanks, guys, for not excluding me from the conversation when I butted in.

Also, because the Yanks crew wouldn’t let me into the meetings with Cash or the Pettitte and Granderson conference calls, I had to rely on them for quotes. I feel bad poaching them — trust me, if I could have been there recording them myself, I would have. So, in appreciation, here’s some link love.

You can read Bryan Hoch at Bombers Beat and follow him on Twitter: @BryanHoch.

You can read Marc Carig (even though he drinks sissy lattes from Starbucks) at The Star Ledger Yankees blog and follow him on Twitter: @Ledger_Yankees.

You can read Pete Caldera at Pinstripe Posts (though he hasn’t updated since October — come on, Pete!) and follow him on Twitter: @pcaldera.

You can read Chad Jennings at The LoHud Yankees Blog and follow him on Twitter: @LoHudYankees.

Then there are the online guys. Here’s a thanks to Craig Calcaterra of NBC Sports, Maury Brown of The Biz of Baseball, and Keith Law of ESPN (who also has a great personal blog).

A huge thanks to Jon Lane, who edited my features at YES. He’s blogging over there, too, so check out his blog.

Finally, I can’t forget Bob Klapisch, who answered one of my emails four years ago and pretty much set me on this path. You can Read his Record columns or follow him on Twitter, @BobKlap. Thanks for the compliment, Bob.

The Winter Meetings might be over, but the Yanks aren’t done. Neither are we. Even when things slow down in January, we’ve got plenty of stuff planned. Again, if you have any suggestions, email us. And now, your open thread.

Categories : Open Thread

394 Comments»

  1. ultimate913 says:

    Awesome. My own open thread?

    *takes out a knife*

    NO ONE IS TAKING THIS FROM ME! May Mo help you if you try to take it.

  2. radnom says:

    What did the Yankees do last winter meetings? Make Sabbathia an offer? I can’t remember anything crazy going down while the meetings were going on.

    • They basically put the Sabathia deal in place. Remember? Cashman flew out to SF, then got the agreement. Then, by the end of the meetings it was all but a certainty that they’d sign Burnett.

      • Evil Empire says:

        Hah, I still remember how anxious and excited I was when Cashman suddenly left the Winter Meetings in the middle of the night. When I woke up, CC was close to a done-deal. I hoped that move would lead the team exactly to where it has.

        Dec. 23, 2008 was a pretty awesome day too.

        • Salty Buggah says:

          Dec.23 = Tex-mas

          • Evil Empire says:

            Hell fucking yes.

            The Birth of the Curse of Mark Teixeira.

          • Rocky Road Redemption (formerly RAB poster) says:

            That day was so fucking awesome. I remember being really disappointed that the Sox would get Tex. That bummed me out so much.

            And then, not. :-)

            • Evil Empire says:

              Yup. I remember coming home early from work that day since nothing was going on, and I flipped on the TV, which happened to be on the MLB Network.

              “YANKEES SIGN MARK TEIXEIRA”

              Man did I get smashed that night. A few days off from work, Christmas Eve the next day, and a shiny new Mark Teixeira as a $180M stocking stuffer for all Yankee fans to share, while dreams of gumdrops and World Series championships filled my head.

              And it was almost just as fun to enjoy the suicide watch that was Red Sox Nation that next week. All they got was a measly Jason Veritek extension, a broken Rocco Baldelli, and a John Smoltz that was way past his warranty.

              • Kiersten says:

                Pretty sweet that your TV was on the MLB Network on Dec 23rd when the network didn’t even exist yet. You gotta show me how to do that.

                • steve (different one) says:

                  http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mlb_Network

                  The network soft-launched on December 16, 2008 with a rolling automated loop of archival programming and promotions for the network for cable systems that carried the network’s transmissions leading up to the January 1 launch.

                  i’m sure there was a ticker on the bottom.

              • Rocky Road Redemption (formerly RAB poster) says:

                I know, the best part was that it took until July for the Sox to make any sort of counter-move (V-Mart), and even then they weren’t as good as the Yanks.

      • radnom says:


        They basically put the Sabathia deal in place. Remember? Cashman flew out to SF, then got the agreement. Then, by the end of the meetings it was all but a certainty that they’d sign Burnett.

        Ahhhh, yes thats right. I forgot about him leaving the winter meetings. That certainly was exciting.

    • Salty Buggah says:

      It’s because what happens in Vegas, stays in Vegas.

  3. Salty Buggah says:

    Are you guys planning to go again next year?

  4. Salty Buggah says:

    Is Max Scherzer potentially Rich Harden in terms of stuff, ability, and health?

  5. Awesome work by Joe, and awesome work by all the guys he thanked in this post. I’ll definitely be sure to check these guys before checking anyone else for my Yankees fix. See… It can pay to be nice and give some love (or even just professional and personal courtesy) to the lowly blogging scum. Good for all those guys noted in the post above for being cool.

  6. Words that have an interesting connotation when directed at you:

    1) “We’re worried it may be a pulmonary embolism.”

    2) “The guy that was waiting for the CT scan after you got stabbed 10 times with an ice pick.”

    3) “You speak Spanish?” (said with a desperate grin, by a doctor, who, despite working at an ER in the Bronx, cannot understand that his patient was hit by a car and is hungry and has a headache and wants something to eat.

    4) “Is it Lupus?”

    By the way, just for the record, Jamal who comments here some of the time and Brent who reads and never does, are quite possibly two of the three most amazing human beings on the planet. Just so RAB is publically aware of how amazing its readers are.

  7. Hey ZZ says:

    I just read the source fangraphs thing from before and am still laughing.

    I thought you guys might have some fun with this from Lohud:

    Gary
    December 10th, 2009 at 7:16 pm
    DeRosa has a low OBP, but it is still probably double that Russo’s OBP will be.

    And he also hits 20+ HRs and can play good defense at 9 positions.

    My response was:

    DeRosa plays 9 positions? Is he like an Angel in the Outfield or something?

    • Evil Empire says:

      He plays good defense at 1 position?

    • It’s really a shame so many morons latch onto DeRosa… He’s really not a bad player (for a utility-type of guy or a regular on a bad team), but if you want to defend him you kind of have to throw your hat in with all the mouth-breathers who say stuff like he “can play good defense at 9 positions.”

    • Rocky Road Redemption (formerly RAB poster) says:

      The other day I was on LoHud, and I got into a discussion about RAB. It was fascinating, it really was.

      It’s interesting how we here on RAB consider those on LoHud to be uneducated, spoiled, and ludicrous fans, because LoHud has the polar opposite view. They consider RAB to be a site of nerds who don’t get laid enough with people that have no lifes. It was a very interesting discussion.

      • RichYF says:

        Lives even.

        • Rocky Road Redemption (formerly RAB poster) says:

          Took me a while, but I found it.

          RAB conversation starts at 4:59 by Wait till we do it all over Again (me).

          http://yankees.lhblogs.com/200.....-official/

          • Heh… I was hoping for some more acerbic criticism, for some really insulting barbs thrown our way. This is more like schoolyard taunting… Like, when JMK and the rest of the slow kids have recess.

            Tell Bret the Hitman that while he’s dreaming of naked chicks, we’re banging our naked wives and girlfriends.

            /sinking to his level’d

            • PS: Just kidding, obviously, please don’t. The last thing I need is some joker over at LoHud taking shots at me.

              • Rocky Road Redemption (formerly RAB poster) says:

                No worries, I knew you were joking.

                Sneaks off to LoHud and starts posting insulting comments as THCM.

            • Rocky Road Redemption (formerly RAB poster) says:

              Don’t you love how bret spells chick wrong, and then gets other posters to spell chick wrong as well?

              • RRR – Just one thing… Be careful about speaking up for the RAB commentariat as if we’re some monolithic entity. Clearly (see below) there are some people here who think the people over at LoHud are morons… But that’s not necessarily a sentiment shared by everyone, and there are plenty of people here (you included, of course) who comment at both sites (and pretty much everyone is a fan of CJ). Regardless of what people here may think of LoHud or vice versa, I don’t see any need to create some sort of RAB vs. LoHud narrative/fight.

                Ok, sorry, back to dick jokes.

                • Rocky Road Redemption (formerly RAB poster) says:

                  No, I understand. If you notice though, I wasn’t trying to make it a competition. I did post, clearly, that I liked RAB for analysis and LoHud for news. And I mean that. As I say below, I was trying very hard to be civil.

            • I love the anti-intellectualism in that thread.

              Also, guys who say that other guys don’t get laid, probably don’t get laid themselves.

              • Hey ZZ says:

                The “eye test” is the golden rule over there. You would think half the posters on there are major league scouts.

              • Rocky Road Redemption (formerly RAB poster) says:

                I was trying VERY hard to be civil…if you called out the LoHud idiots like you do on RAB, unlike here you’d be outnumbered and would gain the reputation of an arrogant asshole. Here such people are thought of as “knowledgable posters”. As they should be.

                • cmasone says:

                  I used to be a heavy commenter over there, before I found this site (and probably before RAB really got off the ground). I still liked a couple posters (CB, SJ44) over there, but trisha and randyl and some of the other really aggressively anti-intellectual people over there just completely drove me away. You can’t even have a conversation with them because they’re not interested in anyone else’s point of view and are unswayed by data, evidence or analysis.

                  it’s all what their eyes see and how much they like a guy’s attitude and the surface numbers. That randyl guy would talk about Glen Perkins as a shining example of young pitching and get aggressive when I pointed out that every team in baseball would rather have Joba or Hughes. Why? Because that season Glen Perkins was 12-4 at age 25 while Joba and Phil were struggling at age 21/22.

                • Rocky Road Redemption (formerly RAB poster) says:

                  CB should start his own blog. He’s one of the smarter posters I’ve seen on either blog.

                • rbizzler says:

                  randyl is a horror show with all of his irrational nonsense about Cash/Wang and his fixation with the Yankees training staff.

              • Wow, learn something new everyday.

                I always thought that guys who scream childish, inane things at other guys was a major turn-on for most women. That, a bottle of Chivas and a handful of Vicodin always worked for me.

          • “I find OBP boring.”

            Everything in that little rant is asinine. Please, RRR, don’t encourage these people. We try to understand baseball, not say why our preferences (low Ks, high BA) are good.

          • The craziest part to me: not liking the threaded comments. I find it incredibly easier to follow. I guess it’s because the nature of each commenting section is different. We try to have conversations here, while there are many more one-and-done comments over there.

          • Mike Axisa says:

            “Trade Hughes or Joba for a cost controlled starter.”

            Oh, the irony.

      • Hey ZZ says:

        Most people that post on LoHud really are morons. Myself and one other person the other night were the only two people who thought Mike Cameron was a better baseball player than Melky Cabrera. One of the everyday regulars is projecting Melky at .285 with 20 HR and 80 RBIs next year and most people agree that that is a good projection.

        • Rocky Road Redemption (formerly RAB poster) says:

          GB7?

          And he’s one of the smarter posters.

            • vin says:

              He’s always been a fan of the home-grown guys. I think Melky could hit those numbers – but not for a couple of years. He’s shown he can hit in the .270s (for what that’s worth), and if he can reach 20 hrs, 80 rbi isn’t that unrealistic.

              Hell, Brosius hit 19 and 98 hitting 8th and 9th in 1998.

              It’s definitely not the craziest thing GB7 has ever posted.

              • Hey ZZ says:

                My response was that a .285 20 HR 80 RBI line from Melky and his above average defense, he would be one of the best CF in baseball and have some serious value on the trade market to a team that needed a CF.

                To me that is entirely unrealistic to project Melky as one of the best CF in baseball.

    • Keanu Reeves says:

      What do you think was running through Gary’s mind while writing that comment?

      People will be so impressed with my knowledge of teh baseball!!1!!111!!

      Or

      DH is a position, right?

  8. PaaakmaaaN says:

    I found this on MLBTR

    Brian Cashman told Mark Feinsand of the New York Daily News that Juan Miranda could potentially DH for the Yanks next year.

    I don’t think this is a bad idea.. but do you really, really, raelly think that Juan Miranda can DH for us?

  9. Drew says:

    Wow 70,000 views in one day. I think I might have accounted for like 10,000 of them, ha.

    I know you guys started the blog just to express your opinions and shit towards the Yanks but I hope you guys start generating a some serious income from the site eventually. You deserve it. It’s the only site I visit every day, multiple times a day.

    If I had any extra cash, whatsoever(damn education..), I’d donate.

    All your work is much appreciated.

  10. Salty Buggah says:

    Best Dan Shaughnessy (Of Red Sox are resting for the playoffs while Yanks are going full out article fame) article ever:

    http://www.boston.com/sports/b.....ox_bridge/

    • TBL linked to that article today and said the following, which is true and also applies to Yankees fans:

      “It’s a clever appeal to traditional Red Sox fans’ insecurity. ‘We have to beat the Yankees!’ Here’s the thing. The Yankees are irrelevant.
      The Wild Card makes the AL East race redundant. The Red Sox don’t enter the season trying to beat the Yankees. They try to win 95 games, regardless of the opponent, and win the Wild Card. In four of Epstein’s seven seasons, Boston has won exactly 95 games and won the Wild Card. They won the Wild Card with 98 wins in 2004 and won the division in 2007.”

      Every time a Yankees fan reacts to a Sox deal by saying something like ‘well that’s ok, it doesn’t change the balance of power,’ they should remember this. Every single little transaction doesn’t have to be viewed through the prism of some rivalry or imaginary balance of power.

    • radnom says:

      Shaughnessy is not thought of very highly here is Boston, probably because he does not constantly kiss the team’s ass as does everyone else (it is so much different than the NY media).

      I agree with parts of this article. Yes the Sox have money to spend, and yes it is ridiculous when they complain about the Yankees spending.

      That being said, sometimes the market doesn’t exactly match up with a teams needs, and you have to have a quiet offseason (even if your team has holes) to do the best thing for the organizations long term health. I don’t think, as does Shaughnessy, that this is due to ownership being stingy. I think if anything, Theo is having to convince Henry as to why they are not trading the farm for the right to extend Halladay.

      I still think that the best move for the Sox would be to forget Bay and sign Holliday. It just fits so well, he really isn’t that old. I still have a gut feeling that this might happen.

      • ROBTEN says:

        “sometimes the market doesn’t exactly match up with a teams needs, and you have to have a quiet offseason (even if your team has holes) to do the best thing for the organizations long term health”

        +1 for long term thinking over short term panic

      • Kiersten says:

        “I don’t think, as does Shaughnessy, that this is due to ownership being stingy.”

        Maybe not this season, but Teixeira certainly was, and everyone in New England knows it.

    • Just like Juan Bustabad was always a couple of years away.

      The Sox had a prospect named Juan Bustabad?

      How do you draft a guy with “Bust” and “bad” in his name? That’s just begging to be mocked.

  11. J says:

    Welcome back Joe. You did a great job. Perhaps you are the Yankees good luck charm and should make this a habit?

    In regards to scrap heap pitchers, I think the Yankees or Mets have the best shot at Justin Duch. if they want him. Allow me to explain. Speaking as a therapist, if my client (I am an LCSW) was suffering from, or recovering from, a depression based on missing his child after a failed marriage, and the option of moving closer to that child exists, I would recommend it. It sounds simplistic, yet mood disorders do need to be closely monitored as they creep up quickly. I believe (based on reading what he has said on the situation) that he may actually flourish and use his being on a New York team to have a bonding tool with his son. During the intervention period on the planned change process, this would be an ideal goal. My guess is he moves closer to Jersey.

  12. Sleepy Carl says:

    Let’s just say that the Yankees feel confident with Miranda at DH (I know it is highly, highly unlikely). That would leave the lineup with two hitters might struggle vs LHP. Does anyone agree that Conor Jackson seems like the perfect guy to make a minor move for (or sign if non-tendered) to split time with Granderson (lesser extent, move Melky to CF and Jackson to LF) and Miranda (larger extent)? This of course is under the assumption they don’t want to throw much cash around.

  13. PaaakmaaaN says:

    I’m currently studying for a Spanish quiz 2morrow nd i wanna get sidetracked sooo

    name your 2010 Yankee opening day rosters here :D

    Starting rotation:
    1. CC
    2. AJ
    3. Pettitte
    4. Joba
    5. Chiengmingwang(i’m hopin hes better)

    Starting lineup:
    1. Captain
    2. Granderson
    3. Teixeira
    4. A-rod
    5. Matsui(hopefully)
    6. Posada
    7. Cano
    8. Swisher
    9. Melky

    I think that Cano and Swisher can go either 7 or 8 doesn’t really matter

  14. Keanu Reeves says:

    Not sure how I ended up coming across this, but check this out:

    http://www.google.com/trends?q.....fisting%22

    WTF? Haha.

    • king of fruitless hypotheticals says:

      “not sure how i ended up coming across this”

      um…that’s not like saying ‘hey, there’s still a beer in here!’ or ‘hey look, there are TWO slices of pizza left!’

      • Keanu Reeves says:

        Alright, I am sure how I came across it.

        I google image searched WTF? and that was like like the 5th result.

        Then, I went to google trends to see if I could replicate the picture I saw.

        And there you have it.

        • king of fruitless hypotheticals says:

          the funny part (to me) was not that you found it, but that you felt obligated to come back and explain HOW you found it, just so we’d know. plus, your nic is keanu reeves, so i’m sure there was some extra obligation there…

          :D

          i’ve googled worse stuff in my life just to see what would happen…only once do i wish i hadnt, and no, i’m not going to say what it was, cause i dont want anybody else’s eyes burned…

    • Who would have ever thought ATM was that big in the hometown of Disneyland.

  15. Jake H says:

    I love that the Sox move to counter the Yanks is to get Boof Bonser. Love it!

  16. Steve H says:

    In my quest for Ben Sheets, I have a question for all of you baseball enthusiasts out there. Has there ever been a better season by a pitcher with a losing record than Sheets in 2004? He was lights frigging out, and went 12-14. Unreal. Some of the eye popping numbers, 237 innings, 264 k’s, 162 ERA+, 0.98 whip, 8.25 k/bb(not a typo). His BABIP was even .303, so no luck involved. I really wish Keith Law had a Cy Young vote then, as Sheets finished tied for 8th that year. What’s crazier is Randy Johnson was probably a little better, and was only 16-14. Of course he didn’t win the Cy either.

  17. Salty Buggah says:

    Swish is going to be on How I Met Your Mother. Cool

  18. PaaakmaaaN says:

    OMGOMGOMG

    just came out… Yankees traded for Roy “Doc” Halladay…

  19. el hermano de teh Jesús thanked me for my offer to help him with English and then inquired as to where I lived.

    Medical emergencies aside, life is good.

  20. Nathan says:

    MLBTR is saying the white sox are interested in Brett Gardner, what kind of return could the yanks get for him?

  21. Drew says:

    I’m really surprised the Rays are going to acquire Soriano. That’s a big ticket item for them.

    They better hope he has no elbow issues like he did in 08.

  22. Mike Pop says:

    White Sox interested in Brett Gardner?

    http://www.mlbtraderumors.com/.....rdner.html

    Think Cashman could go all ninja again and get some value for this guy?

    • Pretty interesting that there seems to be interest out there in Gardner… First the Royals, now the ChiSox. I guess speed is just that intoxicating.

    • Moshe Mandel says:

      Was about to ask this question. Could you get one of their relievers (Jenks, Thornton)? A guy of his defensive capabilities in CF would probably be league average in terms of overall value, and is a good bet to provide more value than relievers.

      Thoughts?

      • They’ve soured on Jenks, right? or am I making that up?

      • Mike Pop says:

        I don’t think there is any way in hell the Yankees would be able to get Matt Thornton for a package centered around Gardner.

        • Moshe Mandel says:

          Thornton is 32. I’d say that if you are a team that needs a CF, you should be willing to trade a reliever on the wrong side of 30 for a young CF who you have control of for a while.

          • Mike Pop says:

            I’m going to have to disagree. I would agree if we weren’t talking about Brett Gardner. If we were talking about Ellsbury, A-Jax, or some CFers who won’t be superstars but more sure bets to be productive major league players than BG, I could see it happening. Thornton is poised to be there closer for the upcoming season, and is under cheap control. 3 million dollar option for 2011.

            He has just been so dominate the past two seasons. I can’t see it happening.

            • Moshe Mandel says:

              Gardner was a 2.1 win player in part time duty as a rookie this year. Thornton was a 2.5 win player in his best season at 32. I’d say they have similar value, but you get more years of control with Gardner. I’d say it is a longshot because they have soured on Jenks, but if they change their mind there, they should take the everyday player and ship out the reliever. I only advocate it for the Yankees because I think Thornton fills an opening while Gardner might be a bit superfluous.

  23. Steve H says:

    Brandon Lyon: 3 years/$15 million.

    To quote BillyBob in Bad Santa “Are you fucking with me??”

  24. Tigers GM Dave Dombrowski told Steve Kornacki of MLive.com that there’s a chance Phil Coke starts in Detroit.

    Let’s just hope one of those starts is against us.

  25. Drew says:

    Wow. Detroit may start Coke. Imagine the HR total.. At least they have a big outfield.

  26. This is just funny… Via MLBTR:

    “7:36pm: A source tells Joel Sherman of the New York Post that the Mets offered Bay more than $60MM, but less than $65MM.”

    Dude, come on, Mets. At that point, just spit out the f*cking dollar figure. ‘We offered him, as a perk, a luxury box for more than 20 games, but fewer than 23 games. ::wink, wink::’ God the Mets are embarrassing.

  27. PaaakmaaaN says:

    I think that the Yankees are set for 2010 except for the DH spot.

    I think that even LF can be covered by Melky and we don’t have to go out and get someone, it would also be nice if the Yankees can add another starter that isn’t surrounded by ??? such as Joba and Hughes.

    I think the bullpen at the moment is pretty solid, we got of course Mo, Damaso Marte who was exceptionally good in the playoffs, David Robertson who i hope Girardi uses more this season, i hope we get to get a good look at what Michael Dunn can do, and also i hope that either Joba or Hughes stays in the bullpen.

    • vin says:

      If Melky is in LF, then that means either Halladay or Lackey are in pinstripes. I believe the consensus is thatthe Yanks have about 20± mill to spend on a LF, DH, starting pitcher(s).

      Matsui for 7, Lackey/Halladay for 16 keeps the Yanks in their budget’s ballpark.

      • PaaakmaaaN says:

        I think that the Yankees should go out, get Matsui who can most simliary post up the same numbers as Damon can or better, for cheaper. I think that Lackey is a good deal, but i don’t want the yankees giving up Rontero+Hughes/Joba+prospects for Halladay. I mean Halladay is a great pitcher and would make our rotation amazing, but he’s 34, were giving up almost 10 years worth of prospects, and then after the seasons over we have to resign halladay for more $$$.

      • Drew says:

        I’m not sure about that. We’re up to about 185 and still have to name 13 more men to the 25 man. Which means 13 more contracts including some Arb raises.

    • Mike Pop says:

      You had me until Joba or Hughes to the bullpen.

      • PaaakmaaaN says:

        thats the last sentence… lol

        and why wouldn’t u want either Joba or Hughes in the bullpen?

        • Rocky Road Redemption (formerly RAB poster) says:

          Ha, he’s new here.

          • Rocky Road Redemption (formerly RAB poster) says:

            I suppose I should pst why Joba and Hughes in the pen permanently would be a God-awful idea:

            Starters are FAR more valuable than relievers. I’m talking 170 inning, 4.10 ERA starters are more valuable than relievers, every time, without fail, EXCEPT in the cases of Mariano Rivera and perhaps Trevor Hoffman, and the odds of Joba or Hughes being one of them are SO low that it’s far more likely they become good starters.

            • Will in NJ says:

              I really do not understand the mindset of B-Jobber fans. You do not see any other team in baseball do this to their young pitching prospects, yet these fans insist on it. Are the Orioles making Matusz/Tillman 8th inning guys? The A’s and Anderson? Padres and Latos? The list goes on and on. How about Texas and Feliz? They are commited to seeing him start UNTIL he proves he cannot. Just like what the yanks are doing wtih Joba/Phil.

              • Rocky Road Redemption (formerly RAB poster) says:

                I can relate. I am a convert. RAB totally convinced me.

                It’s just illogical to think of Joba and Hghes as relievers.

                • Mike Pop says:

                  But then when you try to explain this to the ‘average’ baseball fan at a bar or something….. They don’t quite comprehend it and tell you to go f yourself. Something of that extent.

                • Rocky Road Redemption (formerly RAB poster) says:

                  Exactly.

                • Keanu Reeves says:

                  Which is of course the only logical way to respond to someone that doesn’t share your opinion.

                  I have no problem telling B-Jobbers/Hughers that I think they’re dead wrong, but if they have put at least some thought into their argument, I’m fine with agreeing to disagree.

                • Mike Pop says:

                  I could see Matt ACTY using WAR, FIP, and tRA at a bar. Just having a RAB like conversation.

                • Keanu Reeves says:

                  I would enjoy listening to that conversation.

                • I actually did use WAR today at work as an example of how awful my math skills are. I said I can’t multiply fractions in my head but I can figure out how many runs over replacement a baseball player is.

                • Keanu Reeves says:

                  Spoken like a true RABbi.

                • Rocky Road Redemption (formerly RAB poster) says:

                  Whenever I listen to two people debate about the Granderson trade, the debate looks like this:

                  Sportsguy(hence known as SG) 1: Granderson is a great trade! He is so much better than Melky and Gardner. He had a great season three years ago and a really good one 2 years ago.
                  SG2: That’s the problem. He’s declining. What makes you think he’ll bounce back. And he can’t hit lefties.
                  SG1: (Evil glare) Well, I think he’ll get better.

                  My question is…when is SG1 going to bring up BABIP? I’ve NEVER, ever heard anybody say, “Well, his BABIP was only 275. That’s well below league average and should definitely go up to bring his average and OBP to more acceptable rates.”

                  Seriously, just ONE person on SNY or MLB netwrok or ESPN, quote an advanced statistic! It won’t bite.

                • That’s because, sadly, the common person doesn’t want to hear about BABIP, UZR, WAR, because it’s not a calculation they can do in their heads easily–which I find interesting because the common fan/pundit readily accepts QB rating despite its difficulty of computation.

                • Keanu Reeves says:

                  I think the people on the air for those networks have some vendetta against that kind of analysis. My dad has coached baseball for 25 years and is about as knowledgeable of the game as anyone I’ve ever met. Yet, he hates talking advanced stats with him. He’ll listen to my point, but when push comes to shove, he leans on BA, low K’s and etc.

                • I think it’s because people who think of baseball in a more traditional sense misinterpret the arguments made by those who think of it in a more advanced sense.

                • Keanu Reeves says:

                  Right. It’s just not generally how they were programmed to think about the game of baseball.

                • Crazy Eyes Killa says:

                  Best discussion I’ve seen on RAB, maybe ever.

                • Yeah, which would be fine if they were willing to learn, but many aren’t. That’s what pisses me off.

                • Keanu Reeves says:

                  Or even if they were willing to listen. And that goes for everything, not just this issue. The mindset of, “I’m right, you’re wrong, end of story”, is one of the most ignorant/dangerous things going.

                • I heard Joe Beningo say he “never wants to learn” a thing about Sabermetrics.

                • Keanu Reeves says:

                  The sad part is these guys are getting away with that stance because there are enough of them left.

                • I find it incredibly sad that people who talk and write sports for a living don’t keep up with the advancements in their field.

                • Keanu Reeves says:

                  Right? Could people that work in the medical field just dismiss new practices because they didn’t want to take the time to understand them?

                  It’s one thing when a fan doesn’t keep up with the latest stuff. But if it’s your job, you have a responsibility to do so.

                • Exactly.

                  It’s like that scene in Scrubs when Kelso fires Dr. Townsend (Dick Van Dyke) for not keeping up with the latest medical stuff.

                  /Season One’d

          • Keanu Reeves says:

            Lol. Joba/Hughes to the pen is the #1 thing to say if you want an angry mob of RABbi’s coming after you.

        • Will in NJ says:

          It’s like drafting a LT first overall and then having him play LG. Positional value. An average/above average starter (which both Joba and Phil have shown flashes of becoming. Give them time to develop)>>>>>>> A dominant reliever.

          • Hey ZZ says:

            Yeah. It is really not a difficult concept to understand. Guys like Randy Wolf get paid 10 million a year while great relievers struggle to get more than 4 million a year.

            Hell Barry Zito makes more than the best closer in the history of baseball.

        • Keanu Reeves says:

          Because both of them are way too talented to be put into the bullpen until they have proved beyond reasonable doubt that they will not succeed as starters.

  28. • Speaking of money drops, remember when Aroldis Chapman was going to get Dice-K money? Not so much. Now it seems like he’ll struggle to get $20 million, though the Cuban defector will have a workout for teams next week in Houston. The Yankees will attend, but one person I spoke to said the team is very leery; they don’t see Chapman as helping anytime soon and don’t want to get stuck with the bill if he doesn’t pan out.

    I agree 100%, but dropping 10-15 mil on someone with his upside is still worth a shot. If he was going to get huge money (50-60 mil), I’d agree. But his price has come down to a level near what he would cost as an IFA or draft pick. I’d think of him as the replacement for the lost 08 Gerrit Cole pick.

    (I hate this argument, but I’m going to use it anyway)

    The Yanks are the team that dropped 40+ mil on Kei Igawa. NOW they have no money to spend?

  29. Moshe Mandel says:

    Odds that Melky starts the season in LF? I’d say 51%. I think that Cash will pick up one more bat for DH (possibly someone who can play LF like Damon) and then focus the rest of his resources on pitching. The 2009 Yankees did fine with Melky in the lineup, and should be better defensively this way. Thoughts?

    (The 49% is if he decides to bring in cheap veteran options in both LF and DH. Unless the LF is Cameron, who probably won’t be cheap, I think I would prefer to just go with Melky(

    • We really could use someone who crushes lefties and can play some defense in the outfield. Granderson’s trouble with Lefties are well known, and we’ll be very susceptible to a LOOGY in the late innings unless we have someone on the bench.

      Hate to say it, but someone like Shelly Duncan.

      • Moshe Mandel says:

        Mike Cameron would really be a perfect fit at this point.

        • There you go. At his age, not playing everyday could be beneficial and I love the power off the bench. But will he accept a bench role?

          • Moshe Mandel says:

            Well, he would play most days, would he not? You arent going to start Melky in left over him.

            • True, but then you might as well deal off Gardner or Melky since one of them will barely play. I’d trade Melky, myself. Gardner’s better defensively and more useful off the bench.

              But that causes a 2011 problem. Say Cammy stays for 1 year, now you need a LF or CF. I know everyone will say Crawford, but he’s not available yet and things can happen where he won’t be. Then what? What’s Plan B?

              • Moshe Mandel says:

                You make a trade, you bring back Cameron, etc. options can present themselves. If they bring in a LF’er like Cameron and a cheap DH (Delgado, Thome?), I would trade Melky. If one of Gardner or Melky is starting in LF, I would start Melky and trade Brett.

        • Accent Shallow says:

          Ehhh . . . now that Granderson is on the team, no need for a CF. I think I’d rather have Damon’s bat, if it comes to it.

      • steve (different one) says:

        a healthy Xavier Nady would be perfect.

    • Keanu Reeves says:

      I wouldn’t have any problem with Melky as the LF. I think others on RAB have said it, but how many teams would be looking to push a guy like Melky out of the starting lineup? Probably just the Yankees and the Sox. So yeah, I think they would be just fine with him in left.

      That being said, I have a strange feeling that there’s going to be another really huge move from Cashman this offseason that does not include anyone named Holliday, Hallady or Lackey. I have no guess, it just seems like something could be coming.

  30. Steve H says:

    For all of you Caddyshack fans out there, the Bio channel has been running Caddyshack: The Inside Story recently, a 2 hour behind the scenes profile of the movie. I watched about 20 minutes last night and it was pretty good (I’ve now recorded the whole thing on DVR but haven’t watched).

  31. Lowell deal is done

    Red Sox Agree To Send Lowell To Rangers
    By Ben Nicholson-Smith [December 10 at 8:11pm CST]

    8:11pm: The Boston Globe reports that the Rangers and Red Sox have agreed in principle to a deal. The two teams have resolved a money issue and the Red Sox will pay some of Lowell’s salary, as expected. Now, the players must get medical clearance.

    http://www.mlbtraderumors.com/.....-deal.html

  32. Hm, semi-bombshell on The Office. As much as I’ve loved this show, it needs to come to an end soon.

  33. Hey ZZ says:

    Lets say for fun Yanks sign Delgado.

    How many HR do him, Grandy, Tex, Arod combine for?

  34. Teix is the Man says:

    Let’s go ‘Cuse!

    • Charles Nicolais says:

      Nice to see the NYC-Cuse connection every now and again. Especially since they play better in the Garden than the Knicks.

  35. Mike Pop says:

    Wow – Browns spankin’ that ass.

  36. Charles Nicolais says:

    Any syracuse fans here at RAB? Good game they got goin right now with Florida.

  37. Keanu Reeves says:

    Apparently, the fans of the NBA feel that Tracy McGrady (that of the microfracture knee surgery and 0 games played this year) is deserving of a starting spot on the Western All-Star squad.

    http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/.....id=4731829

    Kinda sad.

  38. JobaWockeeZ says:

    Bob Lorenz: How about this deal, Joba Chmaberlain, Jesus Montero Melky Cabrera and a couple minor leaguers for Roy Halladay? Do they do it?
    Jack Curry: I think the Yankees will jump on that! I don’t think the Jays would like it though…

    Flip flop that Jack. At this point I could see the Jays accepting but I can not see the Yankees being ecstatic on that package. Otherwise Halladay would be a Yankee by now.

  39. JobaWockeeZ says:

    Ugh the obsession with Halladay is killing me. Curry, Hughes, Joba, Montero and more is not worth a likely declining and expensive Halladay. Cashman said he’ll do it for the right deal and Halladay is not the right deal. Josh Johnson and Felix? Yes. Halladay? No.

    It’s not simply making your team better for one eyar that makes a deal worth it.

  40. aj says:

    Why would Boston eat 9M of Lowell’s 12M salary to give him away to Texas? Is this Catcher prospect that good?

    • Steve H says:

      They see Lowell as a DH at this point, and they already have one of those. Francona also said no way would they flip Youk/Lowell, so that was off the table. Lowell was a statue at 3rd this year. I’m sure the more money they were willing to pay, the better the prospect. I think Ramirez is solid, good hitter, not much defensively. From the Sox perspective it’s a very good trade though, they can easily replace Lowell with a 1b or 3b, plus pick up a good young catcher.

    • Mike bk says:

      they did it to free up the spot so they could sign beltre to be the 3b

  41. Keanu Reeves says:

    Here’s a good, your trade proposal sucks (courtesy the ESPN message boards, which are just awful):

    “Is Tampa looking for additional help? …Trade B.J. and Burrell to Toronto for Halladay.”

  42. JMK THE OVERSHARE's Milton Bradley Fat Park Factor says:

    This is like the VMA awards with all the shoutouts. Oh yeah, you forgot some guy named God. But seriously Joe, sounds like you had a good time.

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