Open Thread: The best in New York


Later tonight on MSG, a new original series with an interactive fantasy game component entitled The Lineup: New York’s All-Time Best Baseball Players will make its debut. The idea is simple and one that baseball fans can appreciate: A panel of sports analysts will debate the best players in New York history.

Tonight’s episode — the first of ten — will focus on the backstops. Which catcher is the best in the storied history of New York’s baseball past? The Yankees, Mets, Giants and Dodgers all have plenty to offer, but Yogi Berra should probably come out on top. Tonight’s panelists set to debate something we often discuss here include Gary Carter, Sparky Lyle, Will Leitch of Deadspin fame and Elias Sports Bureau’s Steve Hirdt. Fran Healy will moderate the discussion. At the end of the pisode, the top player at each position will be named to the “Lineup.” See what they did there?

In conjunction with the TV show, fans can follow along online at the show’s website and nominate their own baseball greats. As the panel names its top five at each position, online participants earn points for each correct guess, and a few lucky will win some baseball memorabilia each week. The first episode airs tonight at 10:30 p.m., and this week’s prize is a ball signed by Donnie Baseball himself.

Meanwhile, here’s your open thread. You know the drill. The Knicks are in action tonight, and the Devils are playing right now. LOST is new as well. Be good to each other.

Categories : Open Thread


  1. Drew says:

    Red Sox Twins on MLBN

    • bexarama says:

      apparently Buchholz walked a guy then threw like four consecutive wild pitches or something? TO THE PEN!!!

      • bexarama says:

        oh actually:
        1.2 IP, 6 R (5 ER), 4 H, 4 BB, 3 WP

        If Joba did that I don’t think the Post would allow him to live.

        • Accent Shallow says:

          Still not sure Buchholz will have a worthwhile career as a starter.

          /definitely wearing pinstriped glasses here

          • JGS says:

            and yet

            Buccholz (starter only): 186.2 IP, 4.97 ERA, 4.69 FIP, 1.500 WHIP, .759 OPS against, .310 BAbip

            Joba (starter only): 221.2 IP, 4.18 ERA, 1.480 WHIP, .759 OPS against, .322 BAbip

            too lazy to calculate out Joba’s starter only FIP (Buchholz has just 4 relief innings, I figure his overall FIP is close enough to starter)

            • JGS says:

              Buchholz, that is

            • Accent Shallow says:

              I’m mostly basing this off second and third-hand scouting reports, where Buchholz’s trouble is locating his fastball. Very tough to win pitching backwards.

              Half-hearted attempt to use numbers:

              Joba has 160 more PA as a starter, and has allowed 1 more home run. Joba has a better K/BB ratio, 2.04 to 1.88. Additionally, Buchholz hasn’t had a run of success in the majors as impressive as Joba’s 2008. Joba is also a full year younger.

              Like I said, I’m absolutely wearing homer-glasses here, but I’d rather have Joba, even if the big fastball never comes back.

  2. WIlliam says:

    In my 12 team Yahoo league, I have succesfully traded Josh Johnson and Rafael Furcal for Scott Kazmir and Hanley Ramirez.

    I now still have a good starting staff of Lee, Hirokuda, Kazmir, and Blackburn, plus awesomeness with

    c- Martinez
    1- Ortiz
    2- Pedroia
    3- Young
    SS- Ramirez
    OF- Braun
    OF- Victorino
    OF- Burbon

    • WIlliam says:

      Kuroda, not Hirokuda, my bad.

    • WIlliam says:

      Forgot to say Pineiro was my 5th starter.

    • Tom Zig says:

      1- The corpse of David Ortiz


    • Dirty Pena says:

      Call me a dick or whatever, but by posting fantasy teams, you’re asking for an honest assessment: this team is pretty bad.

      • WIlliam says:

        I’m OK with an honest assessment, but can you explain your opinion some more

        • Dirty Pena says:

          OK, I think you are going to have a lot of trouble with power. You’re looking at 170 HR (MAX) with that lineup, which in a 12 team league of that set-up is probably bottom 4. I just feel like you have below average to bad power guys at too many spots (2 OF, Util, 3B) where these things are needed at least somewhat. There’s a severe lack of K’s given that your 4 and 5 are both below 4.5 K/9 and Lee and Kuroda are both at or below 7. The one K guy you do have (Kazmir) will destroy your WHIP. You are really good in some areas (steals, runs) but unfortunately you can only max out at 12 points per category and I don’t think you have enough in the other categories to win.

          • Dirty Pena says:

            Then again, I haven’t seen your bench/closers, and given the trade you pulled off, I’d have optimism about the competition and their use of the waiver wire.

          • WIlliam says:

            Doesn’t the category thing only happen in Rottisire leagues? Maybe I’m misinterpreting head to head matchup.

          • WIlliam says:

            This is my entire team-

            Víctor Martínez
            (Bos – C,1B)
            97% -/- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
            David Ortiz
            (Bos – 1B)
            64% -/- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
            Dustin Pedroia
            (Bos – 2B)
            97% -/- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
            Michael Young
            (Tex – 3B)
            88% -/- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
            Rafael Furcal
            (LAD – SS)
            54% -/- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
            Ryan Braun
            (Mil – OF)
            98% -/- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
            Shane Victorino
            (Phi – OF)
            87% -/- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
            Julio Borbón
            (Tex – OF)
            59% -/- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
            James Loney
            (LAD – 1B)
            36% -/- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
            Nick Johnson
            (NYY – 1B)
            9% -/- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
            J.D. Drew
            (Bos – OF)
            18% -/- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
            Magglio Ordóñez
            (Det – OF)
            22% -/- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
            Maicer Izturis
            (LAA – 2B,SS)
            26% -/- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
            Scott Podsednik
            (KC – OF)
            9% -/- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
            Milton Bradley
            (Sea – OF)
            3% -/- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
            Brett Gardner
            (NYY – OF)
            3% -/- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -

            Cliff Lee
            (Sea – SP)
            93% - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
            Josh Johnson
            (Fla – SP)
            95% - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
            Hiroki Kuroda
            (LAD – SP)
            60% - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
            Nick Blackburn
            (Min – SP)
            7% - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
            Joel Piñeiro
            (LAA – SP)
            21% - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
            Phil Hughes
            (NYY – SP,RP)
            45% - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
            Mike Adams
            (SD – RP)
            43% - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
            Jason Frasor
            (Tor – RP)
            19% - - - - - - - - - - - - - -

  3. Steve H says:

    So has anybody seen the Swish/Buchholz commercial yet?

  4. Accent Shallow says:

    Anyone as complete burnt out on the fifth starter competition as I am? I just hope the loser works multiple innings, and is ready to go to the rotation if necessary.

    I’ll burst a few blood vessels if Chan Ho Park or Aceves or Ivan Nova is making starts instead of Chamberlain/Hughes.

  5. Andy In Sunny Daytona says:

    Sad day on the Yankee farm…..Marvelous Seth Fortenberry was released today.

  6. CS Yankee says:

    Missed out on the 5th starter talks today but in doing research on based opinion, insider information and MSM facts I offer the following;

    1) Second all-time Yankee great in grunts-n-farts behind Clemens (note: most won’t count Clemens record due to his use of Icy-Hot on the boyz between innings).
    2) Has irked fellow teammates in cutting in front of CC on several post-game buffet lines.
    3) Started mid-season to shake off Posada in an attempt to befriend AJ and learn how to pie teammates.
    4) Is more prepared to handle the load due to innings pitched in 2009.
    5) Is Hank’s main claim to fame in the “right” department when he said it was stupid to have him as a setup guy versus a SP.

    1) Is very eco-friendly
    2) Impressed front office in not coming out of his trailer to talk to the MSM during the Johan trade days.
    3) Like Andy, will throw anything Posada signals
    4) As a fifth starter, he can go all year whereas the 5th guy will only get 25 starts (25 times 6 IP equals 150…or 25 @ 7 IP equals 175).
    5) Injured himself to avoid facing the Rangers lineup a third time through his no-hitter a few years ago (non grit indicator)

    Am I missing something (besides an Pinstripe Ace Cerveza with a lime wedge)?

  7. 1) Thoughts on the new NFL overtime rules?

    2) My fantasy team via autodraft (excepting rounds 1-4)

    Mauer, Cuddyer, Hill, Stewart, Andrus, Cruz, Rasmus, Drew, Ortiz, Wells, C. Young

    F. Hernandez, J. Johnson, Porcello, Joba, Kawakami, Qualls, Lilly, Lohse, Richard, Lyon.



    •Full name is Jeffrey Seth Fortenberry
    •Born Sept. 1, 1983, in Woodville, Texas
    •Son of Jeff and Becky Fortenberry
    •Has a twin sister, Nicole
    •Father also attended Baylor
    •Chose Baylor over Texas A&M, Rice and Tulane
    •Majoring in history
    •Can complete a Rubic’s Cube in less than three minutes

    He can solve a Rubic’s Cube in three minutes? WE GAVE THAT TALENT AWAY?!?!?!??!

    That’s it, I’m cancelling [sic] my tickets.

  9. Johan Iz My Brohan says:

    King Felix and Longo for Matt Cain, Chris Perez. Chipper, and Berkman

    Should I accept it? (I have King Felix and Longo)

  10. pete says:

    god i hate non-mac keyboards/mousepads

  11. Drew says:

    Haha. Span could’ve walked to second and stolen the bag. Captain America ftw.

  12. I’m writing my first paper in almost a year. This is going to hurt.

  13. Zack says:


    “At the Scouting Combine, the Wonderlic exam is administered to players in groups. The 12-minute test is preceded by some brief instructions and comments from the person administering the test.

    Per a league source, after the person administering the test to Tebow’s group had finished, Tebow made a request that the players bow their heads in prayer before taking the 50-question exam.

    Said one of the other players in response: “Shut the f–k up.” Others players in the room then laughed.”

    • Drew says:

      Haha. Love it.

    • Per a league source, after the person administering the test to Tebow’s group had finished, Tebow made a request that the players bow their heads in prayer before taking the 50-question exam.

      I can’t believe that actually happened. I know Tebow’s a super-passionate (borderline intrusive) acolyte, but that story seems apocryphal. I doubt he would actually interrupt the Wonderlic and call for a prayer before a test of people who weren’t his friends or teammates.

      I call bullshit.

      • Zack says:

        It didn’t say he interrupted the person, it said after the person was finished. You can’t see the person asking, “Ok, any questions?” And Tebow making that request?

      • CS Yankee says:

        I call 5th round availability for Tebow

      • I don’t know, man. He ends every interview with “God bless” doesn’t he? Most of the time, that’s with complete strangers so I wouldn’t be shocked if he did the same thing on a bigger scale.

        Again, fantastic use of a vocab word.

        • Leading a team prayer as captain of the Gators: understandable
          Ending an interview with a religious statement of praise to your god: understandable

          Asking the guy who’s conducting part of your job interview to stop doing what he’s doing for a moment so you can organize an impromptu, unscheduled, not-previously arranged mass religious prayer of a bunch of other guys you don’t know who are also applying for a job and probably either aren’t religious or aren’t publicly so, and inviting the uncomfortable religious discussion that would ensue and giving the guys conducting the job interview questions about your leadership and decisionmaking skills for such a wacky and ill-conceived idea: bizarre to the point that it probably didn’t happen

          I disagree with Tim Tebow about some things, but I don’t think he’s a total idiot. And calling for a group prayer before the Wonderlic at the combine would be an idiotic move.

          Still think it’s bullshit. I want more corroboration of this story.

      • Elwood says:

        Hey, Tommy- You do realize Tim’s passion for his faith has help nspire and achieve far more than you’ll ever accomplish right? I know you hate anyone showing faith- because I just love watching you leftists foam at the mout. Also, your close-minded little mind can’t comprehend how anyone can use that dumb ole’ Christianity for good purposes. Get over it, Tommy… Timmy is the real deal and hero to all…. except bitter and intolerent athetists like yourself. You sir are full of bullshit.

        • Meat Loaf says:

          I hope that made you feel better. I have read here for awhile, and TSJC generally brings one of the most sane arguments to the table. You are just angry that you feel your religion was insulted, and I don’t think that is what Tommy was saying at all. But alas, you needed an excuse to be a dick and try and piss someone off ove the internet. Well good for you, you look like a douche.

          Now, let us take a look at your argument just a wee bit.

          Timmy is the real deal – Last I knew, there were serious doubts about his ability to be a NFL player.
          Timmy is a hero to all – Not me. -1.
          Bitter and Intolerant – I consider Tommy to be funny and quite open minded.

          And Tommy is not full of bullshit. You, sir, can go fuck yourself, because RAB does not need people like you.

          So says The Loaf.

    • I badly want it to be true but I’m going to also call bullshit.

    • Said one of the other players in response: “Shut the f–k up.” Others players in the room then laughed.”

      Another reason why this story seems bullshit.

      Who would respond in this way? If you were in a job interview and some religious nutjob asked all the applicants to pray together, would you respond with a public “shut the fuck up”? Do you think your potential employers would look well upon this action and give you bonus points for taking a principled stand? Or would they dock you for not being able to respond in an intelligent manner and for being needlessly profane?

      And the “league source” drops Tebow’s name but not the name of the player who said “Shut the f–k up”? Why not? I want to know who that guy is before I draft him and he flips the bird to my paying customers, Mike Vick style. He’s part of this story too.

      Still call bullshit.

      • Zack says:

        Well are the coaches/GMs watching when they’re taking the test or is it just League Employee X that’s giving the test?

        It was a group of 12 people, if the employee was looking just at Tebow when the person said “Shut the f–k up” then how would the person be able to ID which of the 11 other players said it?

        And depending on what group took the test together, if you had to hang out with Tebow all day, or for multiple days in a row, then I think he’d get on all of our nerves and atleast one person would say something.

        You can have your doubts, obviously it’s just one side of the story. But I dont think your job interview scenario is that great of an example.

      • Accent Shallow says:

        Think back to when you were 20-24. In a room of >50 of your peers, if someone made a request like that, you’re telling me someone isn’t going to respond like that?

  14. Andy In Sunny Daytona says:

    It’s been on a week, so it doesn’t matter, but what Police Department would let a detective sleep with a suspect to get to her husband?

    Come On!

  15. Cecala says:

    Does anyone else have trouble with ESPN360? Every other sports streaming works on my computer but the ESPN popup loads but the video never plays. I really hate ESPN sometimes, disney and sports just does not mix.

  16. (Here’s a preview of my Wed AM post. Let me know what you think)

    I must admit I was a bit surprised at the reaction I got on my Carl Crawford piece yesterday. People seem to think more highly of Carl than his numbers would suggest, and underrate Werth for some reason. So I wanted to take a minute to lay out some numbers, offensive and defensive, and then discuss contract status.

    First, let’s look at both players offensively. I’m going to use ESPN’s 3 year average, since both players have made strides in recent years and the 3 year numbers are more representative of who they are at this point in their careers. Here goes:

    Jayson Werth-
    Three year (2007-2009) Batting Splits
    Total 1244 214 343 53 7 68 215 192 14 348 47 5 .276 .376 .494 .870

    Carl Crawford-
    Three year (2007-2009) Batting Splits
    Total 1633 258 490 77 27 34 205 113 15 271 135 33 .300 .349 .443 .792

    No surprises here. Werth is way ahead in power numbers and OBP while Crawford blows away Jayson in Hits and Stolen Bases. It’s also worth noting that Werth has produced his totals in 310 fewer Plate Appearances.

    Now let’s look at both players defensively using UZR/150:


    2007 -1.4

    2008 +25.6

    2009 +17.5


    2007 +35.3

    2008 +35.3

    2009 +3.4

    Of course, Werth plays the more valuable defensive position in RF. It’s also interesting to note that Crawford has played a grand total of 54 games in CF in his 8 year career. It’s not as if he was always blocked and hasn’t had an opportunity, the Rays 2005 starting CF was Damon Hollins and up to 2007 it was the often-injured Rocco Baldelli.

    Now let’s compare their value using total 3 year WAR and 2010 CHONE projection-

    Crawford-11.3 total WAR/3.8 CHONE

    Werth-14.6 total WAR/3.2 CHONE

    Werth’s CHONE gets pulled down by being fairly useless early in his career, and Crawford’s 3 year WAR gets taken down a bit since he was hurt in 2008 and missed roughly 1/3 of the season. But even if you give him a 50% bump on his 2008 2.7 WAR, that would increase his total to 12.65, still well behind Werth over that period.

    Finally, onto contract demands. Of course the marketplace will dictate what either player will get, but given their age (29/31) heading into free agency, it would stand to reason that Crawford will garner the longer deal. A good comp for Werth would be Jason Bay’s 4 year/66 mil deal. Crawford will likely get more years at a lower AAV, something in the 6 years 80-90 mil range. Carl’s value could shoot up even further with a big 2010 campaign, especially if he matches last year’s production. If he puts up another 5.5 WAR season, his price tag will likely soar north of 100 mil.

    • bexarama says:

      It’s pretty good. I think – and correct me if I’m wrong – people just think Werth might be looking for more than four years, especially if he has another season like last year.

      Also, Crawford’s stats are, IIRC, thrown off by a pretty bad 2008 in which he was injured. He still played through those injuries, though; Werth missed all of 2006 due to injury and he’s had a few things pop up over the past couple of years. He’s still a very good player, at least right now.

      Frankly I’d be happy with either as long as it’s the right deal.

      • I mentioned CC lost 1/3 of a season when discussing his WAR. Even if you adjust for that, Werth is still 2+ wins ahead.

        What surprised me was people were acting like Crawford’s the better player, and I just don’t see it.

        • bexarama says:

          It’s not so much that he lost time as that he just wasn’t that good when he was there.

          I do agree Werth is the better player, but he’s also older and provided he doesn’t have a steep decline this year I think he’ll be looking for similar years as Crawford. But the people that are like “eeeuch Werth? No thanks” and I’ve seen a few… yeah, I don’t get it.

    • Accent Shallow says:

      But Werth has only played one big league season with a full complement of games — 2009. Additionally, he wasn’t worth a damn until 2007.

      Crawford is really dragged down in your comparison by his awful 2008 — can we expect him to put up that season from time to time, or is he going to be more along the lines of ’07 and ’09?

      • I adjusted for that. See above comment.

        • Accent Shallow says:

          Sorta — you adjusted for him only playing 110 games, but he was bad in those 110 games. I was wondering if he can be expected to be that bad again, or if we think he’ll be better than that.

          Personally, I think he won’t be that bad again, but that’s just a feeling, nothing more.

          (Also, if you use the CHONE WAR data for ’07-’09, it’s a lot closer — 10.2 – 9.6 WAR. Granted, Werth accumulated that in much less playing time, but I feel like TZ is more stable year-to-year than UZR)

          Of course, I say that and I notice that Werth’s TZ went from 17 to -12 from 2008 to 2009. Eeek.

          • Accent Shallow says:

            My bad, +10 to -12. Regardless.

          • Bad for the whole 110 games? That’s not my recollection. Actually, IIRC he hurt that wrist and went on the DL soon thereafter. Don’t think you can argue it affected his whole season.

            • Accent Shallow says:

              I’m just saying he had a bad season. I don’t know how much of it you can blame on the wrist, if he was going to get hot, but he had a .319 OBP in 110 games. Ick.

            • bexarama says:

              2008: .273/.319/.400/.718, 89 OPS+, 95 wRC+

              the three years before that:
              .307/.344/.472/.812, 114 OPS+, 123 wRC+
              his OBP had also increased every year and his SLG had gone up as well.

              2009: .305/.364/.452/.816, 113 OPS+, 126 wRC+

    • A few things:

      1.) The notion that Werth should get bonus points for playing RF, “the more valuable defensive position” instead of LF is a bit sketchy, IMO. The difference between RF and LF is virtually nil. Teams often put better throwers in RF, but the value of that superior throwing arm is severely overstated. Both Crawford and Werth could play either LF or RF for the Yankees with aplomb.

      2.) Your bit about Crawford not playing much CF despite “It’s not as if he was always blocked and hasn’t had an opportunity” is disingenuous. He played LF EXACTLY because he was always blocked and didnt’ have an opportunity. He came up as an LF because the Rays back in 2002-2004 had Randy Winn (a legit stud CF still in his prime) and Ben Grieve (the then-jewel of their system and franchise). Baldelli, also an elite prospect and stud CF quickly replaced Winn. The bit about Damon Hollins is a red herring; Baldelli was still in the team’s plans at the time (but was hurt), and uprooting Crawford from his now accustomed LF spot would have been an overreaction. You’re trying to make it seem like the club moved Crawford off of CF because he’s not a good defender and never moved him back to CF because he’s flawed. That’s not true.

      3.) Werth is two full years older. His prior three years includes more of his athletic peak, which partially explains why he’s produced better. He’s also two years closer to LEAVING his athletic peak. This point wasn’t addressed, but it’s important. Very important.

      4.) Calling Jason Bay’s contract a “4 year/66 mil” deal isn’t accurate. Bay’s 5th year is almost certain to vest. It’s not a 4/66, it’s a 5/83. Werth would ask for a vesting 5th year, probably get it too.

      • 1) That’s fine, but I think a better argument would be that YS3′s LF is huge, so CC’s speed would play well there. You can live with less range in RF with the short porch. I also think CC in RF would be a disaster. He doesn’t have the arm for RF, and again his range plays better in LF.

        2) 54 CF games in 8 seasons, and you still haven’t explained 2005. Needing a CF for the whole year isn’t an “overreaction”, that would have been the perfect time to do it. The fact that he’s played those 54 games tells me they’ll move him around, they just never seem to stick with it. Must be a reason. I suspect there’s something else going here, he probably doesn’t pick up the ball well out there.

        3) Power hitter age better than speedsters. That’s a wash.

        4) If CC gets 4 years, fine. I still prefer the flexibility but I won’t complain. But he puts up a good 2010 campaign and he’ll easily get 5 or 6 years, maybe more. Now you’re talking 100+ mil and I think that should give folks cold feet.

    • Frankly, I like each player but not enough to give out the type of deals either will command. Both have serious long-term questions.

      Although Crawford’s slugging numbers have gone up (excepting his bizarre 2008, which screams outlier), he’s a speed/D guy. I’m not confident he’ll be the type of player that ages well. Corner outfielders that don’t have good power and make up for it in superior defense and speed are not the type of guys you want to sign for 5-year deals. He’ll probably be solid for the first three years (if a bit overpaid), but the last two are wildcards (assuming a five-year). I’d probably be talked into a four-year deal at around $14 mil. But I don’t think he’d take it.

      Werth has really only had two complete seasons. While I think he’s legit and criminally underrated, having MatsuiKnees scares the crap out of me. That’s a serious risk as he ages. And he’s already past 30.

      I’d actually be happier with Brett Gardner or whoever out there and targeting Sizemore in 2012.

      • I’d actually be happier with Brett Gardner or whoever out there and targeting Sizemore in 2012.

        That’s my flexibility point. Leaving LF open means you can target a RF or CF, and then move one of Grandy/Swish (or Werth) and upgrade at 2 positions defensively. I have a bias against signing LF for that reason.

        If someone proves that Crawford could play CF and play it well, that would change the entire equation for me. TSJC’s tried, but I’m not there yet.

      • Hey ZZ says:

        Sizemore has a club option for 2012 that I assume will be picked up.

        However after that season, Sizemore, Kemp, Ethier, and BJ Upton project to hit the market. They all will not make it there, but that is some serious OF if the Yankees feel comfortable with what they have for a couple extra years and are willing to risk that at least 1-2 of those guys hit the market.

    • I commented on your post on Crawford and Werth and I’ll reiterate here what I said there… I think you can definitely make an argument for Werth over Crawford, I just think some of the points you tried to make in your post were stretches and made you look like you were trying to build a case for Werth over Crawford more than you were looking at the evidence and trying to determine the best answer.

      One thing I think you should probably be cognizant of when you examine this issue, though… Take a look at how Werth hits at home in CBP. By my count, 12-13 of his homers at CBP in 2009 would not have been homers at YS3. That’s a pretty sizable chunk of his power output in 2009 that might be neutralized by a move to YS3. On the other hand, only 1 of Crawford’s homers at the Trop looks like it wouldn’t have been a homer in YS3.

  17. bexarama says:

    genuine question, because I was thinking about it earlier and couldn’t really come up with the conclusion – who was the better team, 2009 Angels or 2009 Red Sox? I honestly don’t know.

    Fun fact: the 2009 Indians and Brewers had team ERA+s of 83… ow

    • I’d love to see the 09 Indians Bullpen ERA+

      • bexarama says:

        somehow someone with a 7.31 ERA (the 4.81 FIP is less totally ugly but nothing to get thrilled about), a 1.896 WHIP, and a 1.28 K/BB ratio went 4-3

      • Accent Shallow says:

        Fun fact: the 2009 Indians had a team ERA of 5.06, and an ERA+ of 83. Take out Cliff Lee, and the ERA ballons to 5.29, which is an ERA+ of about 80. The non-Lee rotation was so bad (ERA+ of ~79), that the bullpen was slightly better.

        • bexarama says:

          Fausto Carmona’s 2009 numbers make my eyes bleed

          • WIlliam says:

            I remember him being good in 2007 before the playoffs. Now….ouch.

            • bexarama says:

              he was great against the Yankees (in one game. He was gonna be the hard-luck loser against Pettitte, and then… bad things happened) then sucked against the Sox. Seriously, 3.167 WHIP in the 2007 ALCS, Carmona? Way to show up.

    • Accent Shallow says:

      I think the Sox were a slightly better team:

      Red Sox: OPS+ of 105, ERA+ of 108
      Angels: OPS+ of 106, ERA+ of 101

      I’d take the back of the Sox’ pen over the back of the Angels’ pen, FWIW.

      • bexarama says:

        I’d take the back of the Sox’ pen over the back of the Angels’ pen, FWIW.

        There’s absolutely no doubt about this.

  18. Reggie C. says:

    Jenrry Mejia … are the Mets handling this kid’s future if he gets made a set-up from the get-go? Imo Mejia is second only to Montero in terms of WAR potential among the ny teams’ prospects.

  19. Steve H says:

    So Andy in SD, I’ve been waiting all day.

    Has He accepted your friend request yet?

  20. Chris A says:

    I’m really sick of all this 5th starter business. All along I’ve felt that there is no way Joba will not the 5th starter, but in the past few days I’ve been harboring doubts. I know the MSM is in general irrational, but with all the hype given to Hughes and all the articles saying that he has been the favorite all along and that he will be the 5th starter without a doubt, I’ve started to wonder if they are actually right. Would they really say all this without knowing anything and then look really stupid when Joba is named the 5th starter? Maybe I’m just getting sucked in by it all, I just can’t wait until all this insanity is over.

    • Steve H says:

      The pathological B-Jobbers will continue to say it over and over, just hoping it becomes true. I’m still waiting for someone in the organization, with their name attached, to say that Hughes is in the lead, or was ever in the lead. Neither of them has “won” it in Spring Training, so they’re likely to go with the one they wanted all along. I hope, and still think, it’s Joba.

  21. jramey says:

    How am i looking?


    Brian Wilson
    Dave Robertson

    Nick Blackburn
    Joba Chamberlain


    Mauer C
    Butler 1B
    Kendrick 2B
    Cantu 3B
    Theriot SS
    Kubel OF
    Rivera OF
    Guttierez OF
    Nick Johnson UTIL

    Xavier Nady
    Melky Cabrera
    Casey Mcgeehee
    Delmon Young


  22. bexarama says:

    Did anyone else see the really short guy on the Twins who wore the giant helmet? I had to laugh because I think whoever was catching for the Sox at the time was nearly as tall as he was while squatting. Also, I’m super short, so SHORT PEOPLE POWER WOO!!!

  23. Alex S says:

    okay guys i need some help finding the “douche-iest” picture of a sox player. its for a video that i will post

  24. bexarama says:

    this should not make me laugh as much as it does. ANDREW!

  25. bexarama says:

    BTW The Lineup was actually pretty good. I wish it had been a little longer, actually. (TWSS)

  26. Stryker says:

    need some fantasy trade proposal help. looking to trade one of haren/king felix/verlander for one of mark reynolds/david wright. who would you trade and for whom?

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