Jul
22

To need a DH or not to need a DH

By

When Nick Johnson went down with a wrist injury in early May, the Yankees found themselves with a lineup problem. As with any team, they had no back-up plan for the designated hitter spot, and although Brian Cashman and Joe Girardi had spoke of their desires to use the DH as a rotation half-day spot for their aging veteran core, that move meant far too many at-bats for the likes of Francisco Cervelli and Ramiro Pena. It does the team no good if having an above-average designated hitter for a day leads to, in the cases of Pena and Cervelli, a combined 307 plate appearances of well below-average hitting.

As Johnson’s injury morphed into something that will probably be season-ending, the Yankees have scrambled a bit to fill the DH spot. Jorge Posada has earned the bulk of at-bats over the last few weeks, and while Marcus Thames can hit against lefties, his production against right-handed pitcher leaves him on the bench until the late innings. And so a meme emerged: The team needed a more permanent solution to the DH hole.

Recently, those rumblings have turned into full-fledged dissent by the Yankee faithful. Even with the arrival of Juan Miranda — a career minor league slugger with little Major League experience or success — commentators believed the Yankees would look to upgrade the designated hitter spot before the July 31st trade deadline. Adam Dunn could be had for the right price, and if the Yanks got creative, a few other hitters could wind up on the open market.

A funny thing happened on the way to trade deadline though. Down in Scranton, Jesus Montero got hot. His streak isn’t just your average hot streak; it’s a blistering, sweltering, Yankee Stadium-on-Old Timers’ Day hot. In 50 at-bats since the start of July, Montero is hitting .420/.531/.740 with four home runs. He’s walked 13 times and struck out just seven, the last K coming 10 days ago. After a horrendous cold stretch, Montero has, since June 1, poured it on. He’s hitting .329/.402/.584. He’s 20. He’s at AAA. Chew on that.

The drumbeat grew louder. Bring him up to DH, they say. He’ll hit at least as well as Juan Miranda and probably better. He’s truly the real deal, they say. I’ll admit it: I’m very, very tempted by the idea.

Yet, promoting Montero may just be an attempt to solve a problem that doesn’t really exist. It’s true that the Yankees could use a more permanent solution at designated hitter, but their offense isn’t suffering. As their positional splits reveal, the Yankees have been above average at every position this year except three: 1B because of Juan Miranda and Nick Johnson’s production while in the field; 3B because of Kevin Russo and Ramiro Pena’s inability to hit; and CF because Curtis Granderson is having a disappointing season. Notice that for two of these positions, the rotating DH actually drags down the overall production to below-average totals. Mark Teixeira and Alex Rodriguez individually are both putting up above-average OPSs relative to the league average at their positions.

At the DH spot, the Yankees aren’t suffering. Their make-shift DHs are putting together an sOPS+ of 111, far above the league average. (Considering the combined batting line of .244 with a .779 OPS for Yanks’ DHs, that’s a sad commentary on the state of American League DHs, but I digress.) Take a look at the positional breakdown:


On an individual level, the numbers are too small to draw many conclusions, but Juan Miranda’s and Marcus Thames’ production doesn’t look bad when we isolate their DH totals. In fact, both hitters are faring better than average in very limited plate appearances. At the very least, this platoon deserves an extended look.

This DH/Jesus Montero conundrum doesn’t end there. Right now, I have little doubt that Montero will be a productive bat in the Majors. I’m not sure the Yankees are convinced he’ll be a catcher, and I’m not sure there’s much to gain keeping him behind the dish at AAA for the sake of appearances. The Cliff Lee dealings illustrated how the Yankees value Montero, and if they truly saw him as the catcher of the future, he wouldn’t have been included in that trade. That title will be reserved, for now, for Austin Romine.

But the compelling reason to keep Montero in AAA is one of track record. Take a look at the list of 20-year-olds in the expansion era who had at least 200 PAs at the Major League level. With a few notable exceptions, these players all put up below average numbers. It’s just not easy to be 20 and a Major Leaguer. The Yanks need Montero to be great in the long run; they don’t need him to be merely adequate in 2010.

Barring a big deal, the DH spot will remain in flux for the Yankees. If Montero’s torrid stretch continues throughout August, we can reconsider the issue for September. But the Yanks keep winning, Montero keeps mashing, and we’ll patiently await a designated hitter and eventually Jesus Montero too.

Categories : Analysis

144 Comments»

  1. Douglas says:

    Thus, the Yankees most pressing need remains filling out that vulnerable bullpen instead of overpaying for Adam Dunn.

    Jesus incredible hot streak does pose the lingering question for the Pinstripe Universe, can he stick with the big club as a primary DH. Probably not with the foreseeable time A-rod will need to lean upon it.

    Still, I patiently await the day Girardi pencils in a lineup featuring a middle of the order that resembles- 4)Rodriguez, 5) Cano, 6) Montero

    • Hasn’t this year shown that relying on the DH spot for someone to “lean” on it is a bad idea? A-Rod will be the third baseman for a while, and suffering through A-Rod’s decline is no reason to trade Jesus Montero just to keep the DH spot wide open.

      • Ted Nelson says:

        I don’t think it’s been such a bad idea. The DHs have done fine. Ramiro Pena is not an adequate utilityman, or at least not this season… .441 is his OPS. Cervelli has actually posted an OPS that is right in line with both Nick Johnson and Curtis Granderson this season (though it’s declined considerably of late). If the Yankees had a real utilityman, maybe even Eduardo Nunez, the rotating DH would not be a problem.

      • Yesterdays Wine says:

        A-Rod’s decline? Second in RBI’s in the AL? 17 home runs, 24 doubles already, and will likely end up with about 100 runs scored – probably ending up with about his 2006 stats, and better than ’08 or ’09. He’s just heating up, too.

        Putting that aside, I would not bring Montero up till the roster expands later on. Give him his ABs in the minors. He’s 21. No rush. Yanks have the best record in MLB. I agree with getting help for the bullpen. Key issue.

    • Kiersten says:

      Amazing how many “holes” the Yankees seem to have, yet they’re still the best team in baseball.

      Love it.

    • Brendan says:

      I think what you’re saying is absolutley correct. Adam Dunn is not a pressing need for an already formidable offense. The Bullpen is suffering this year and largely because of Joba’s struggles. An ERA of 5 and above is not a mediocre season; it’s god-awful. Robertson seems to have turned a corner, but he’ll be walking down the same dark allies as his numbers aren’t of the ‘wow’ nature. That leaves us with Park who is a mop-up reliever at best, the ever changing Boone Logan who could be useful if not for the fact that he’s in Scranton every other day and of course Mariano who is pitching like Mariano again.

      The Yankees lineup is not a weak batting order, in fact it’s probably one of the best out there. We panic because there are holes in the order for once with Cervelli and Pena forced to grab a bat, yet we still can rely on Cano, Jeter, and A-Rod. Teixiera is heating up, Gardner is consistent and always on base, and Swisher is coming off an All-Star appearance. So calling up Montero to DH is not what his assignment is. He is 20 years old, plus he is on a hot streak, but that’s also against AAA pitchers. Adam Dunn would make the lineup better, but when you look closely you’re getting a HR threat; yes. However, you’re still going to get the same strikeout to walk rate from Dunn, which is simply put, not good. I would look to inquire on relief help such as Scott Downs, or Craig Breslow.

  2. radnom says:


    At the DH spot, the Yankees aren’t suffering. Their make-shift DHs are putting together an sOPS+ of 111, far above the league average.

    This completely misses the problem.
    67 out of the first 84 game have been DH’d by either positional regulars or NJ, who is no longer an option.

    Posada’s, Arod’s, Swisher’s and Texeira’s numbers are not the problem. It is the fill ins for them who are forced into the line up when there is no DH.

    • As I said:

      Notice that for two of these positions, the rotating DH actually drags down the overall production to below-average totals. Mark Teixeira and Alex Rodriguez individually are both putting up above-average OPSs relative to the league average at their positions.

      That’s why I’m ready to give Thames/Miranda more than a chance before pressing the panic button and calling up Montero.

      • radnom says:

        Huh?
        What does what I said have to do with Thames/Miranda?

        The DH has been an issue up until this point because they have been doing the rotating DH thing. Obviously seeing what those two can do is worth a shot before the more drastic options of Montero or a trade.

        I merely was disagreeing with the notion that the fact that the Yankees DH numbers we above average in the first half had analytical relevance to weather or not the rotating DH approach was working. It wasn’t. Now let’s see what Miranda can do.

        • Dirty Pena says:

          He said exactly what you said.

          • radnom says:

            Not really, sorry.
            He acknowledged that having Arod and Tex as DH was not optiimal, but a good chunk of the real estate in the article was dedicated to the DH numbers up until this point.
            Simply calling out the 12 games Arod and Tex DHed was not at all what I was saying.

            • Anchen says:

              He’s saying that giving a shot to the Thames/Miranda platoon is the way to go right now instead of cycling people who need a rest through the spot.

        • Ted Nelson says:

          He did say pretty much what you said.

          The reason the rotating DH has not worked is largely because Ramiro Pena has a .441 OPS. The Yankees need to upgrade their utilityman. If they had someone giving them the .700+ OPS that Luis Sojo and Miguel Cairo have given them in the past or Jerry Hairston gave them last season this wouldn’t be a problem.

  3. Cecala says:

    Monterio to the DH reminds me of Joba to teh 8th!!!1!

    Just saying

  4. Bryan says:

    Has Montero taken any games at 1B this season?

    I’m not trying to think too far ahead, but I can’t help but notice Montero will be 27 when Tex’s deal is up. That being said, if he doesn’t develop as a solid catcher (and the chances are he won’t), we could always move him to 1B.

    Again, this is really far into the future, but just a thought.

  5. Double G says:

    I miss Matsui, even with his 2010 performance (which I think would been slightly better due to the friendly confines of the short porch in right.) Oh well, the Yanks will figure it out.

    • Ross in Jersey says:

      You do realize that the collective stats of the Yankees DH this year are better than 2010 Matsui right? Beats him in every category except batting average (by 2 points) and team-dependent RBIs.

      And that includes a month of Nick Johnson doing nothing but walking.

      • radnom says:


        You do realize that the collective stats of the Yankees DH this year are better than 2010 Matsui right?

        You do realize that this is meaningless unless you take into consideration the fact that no regular DH means a bench player is in the lineup 100% of the time.

        Sure, Poasada Arod and Tex are outperforming Matsui out of the DH spot but the lineup would obviously be better with them at there positions and Matsui as the DH.
        (Says someone who strongly supports the NJ signing)

        • Ross in Jersey says:

          If you’re going to say that the effect of the current Yankee DHs is that a bench player is in the lineup, you then have to conceed that if Matsui were resigned the Javy and/or Granderson trades may never have happened due to payroll restrictions.

          • bexarama says:

            But those trades were some of the worst trades ever. I TOLD YOU WE NEEDED MATSUI!!!!

            /Bret’d
            /also NYYFans’d
            /and probably LoHud’d but I haven’t read there in forever

        • Angelo says:

          You mean, Juan Miranda and Marcus Thames can’t platoon DH?

          Or are you considering them bench players?

        • You do realize that this is meaningless unless you take into consideration the fact that no regular DH means a bench player is in the lineup 100% of the time.

          But one of the points of this post is that we now have a regular DH.

          His name is Juanmarcus Mirandathames. And he, along with Nick Johnson, have played 45 of the 84 DH gamedays this season (53.5%). By season’s end, that 53.5% will probably be closer to 75% or so.

    • bexarama says:

      Matsui home, 2009: .265/.354/.462, .816 OPS
      Matsui away, 2009: .286/.383/.567, .949 OPS

      Just saying.

  6. Pete says:

    I am firmly in the camp of “don’t expect Jesus to be an above-average MLB DH right now”. And since what we have in Miranda and Thames very well could be an above-average (for this year) MLB DH, calling him up to be a DH could very likely (and I think probably would) lead to a net decline in production. The only advantage is that he could replace Cervelli’s bat in the catching spot when Jorge needs to be spelled, but that’s assuming his defense is in some way tolerable, which nobody can be sure of. Montero can’t spell Derek or Alex, though, which means we’d still see some Ramiro Pena. So we’d still have that, plus Montero’s defense, plus the decrease in production when Montero DHs (versus a platoon of Miranda and Thames).

    All in all, it’s probably not a good move. The team isn’t desperate for offense, and there’s absolutely zero guarantee that, at this point, Montero would provide any real offensive upgrade. I do think, however, that if he continues at this rate the rest of the way and has a decent Sept. call-up and Spring Training next year, he’ll start the year with the big club.

  7. Ross in Jersey says:

    Excellent points Ben. What’s the rush to get Montero in the bigs? The need isn’t there right now. The Yankees offense is 2 runs behind the pace for the most runs scored in the majors. They’re not losing games due to lack of offense. Sometimes a subpar bat like Pena or Cervelli is going to play, it’s no reason to panic. Outside of long-gone Nick Johnson, the offense is pretty healthy.

    Let Montero stick in the minors. Now that he’s on a huge hot streak, he’ll gain valuable experience on how to deal with a steady diet of off-speed and breaking pitches as opposing pitchers try to adjust. In the long run, it will help his development when major league pitchers and their superior stuff try to get him out.

    • YankFanDave says:

      Although I too agree with all your points and Ross’ as well, can’t help but want to see Montero in the bigs. As a GM I’d keep in the minors for all the reasons stated until the end of season call up for a look and reward. But as a fan, I want to see what he can do now, especially when he is hot. Ah the dilemma of the emotional fan vs. the educated GM.

  8. BigBlueAL says:

    I still say trading for a cheap, decent DH should be the way to go if possible. Someone like Jack Cust for example.

    If not a Miranda/Thames DH platoon will have to be the way to go barring a miraculous NJ return before the playoffs begin. That platoon might not be that bad to be honest.

  9. Here’s a twist, though:

    While we don’t need a DH upgrade (since Thames/Miranda + the occasional Posada + the occasional ARod is sufficient), it would be nice.

    What we need more is a backup catcher upgrade, since Cervelli’s been horrid and Posada can’t catch every game anyway. And if you get a better backup catcher, you kill two birds with one stone since you can cut back on Posada’s games behind the dish (keeping him heathier) and getting his plus bat more of the DH rotation, while still getting a non-negative bat at the plate.

    So, while Jesus Montero would probably be a decent upgrade to our big league DH timeshare, he’d also fit in well as our backup catcher.

    Since, you know… he’s a catcher.

    Why not call him up and have him play a little of both? Carry him, Cervelli, and Posada. Miranda goes down. Montero can probably do everything Miranda can at this point (roughly), but he can actually play a defensive position (albeit badly) that fills a real team need instead of just being our tertiary 1B backup.

    2-Posada (with Montero and Cervelli)
    3-Teixeira (with Posada, Montero, and Swisher)
    4-Cano (with Peña)
    5-ARod (with Peña)
    6-Jeter (with Peña)
    7-Gardner (with Curtis and Thames)
    8-Granderson (with Curtis and Gardner)
    9-Swisher (with Curtis)
    DH-Thames (with Posada, Montero, ARod, Jeter, and Swisher)
    Bench-Cervelli, Montero, Peña, Curtis

    That seems to work. I know people will bitch and moan about carrying three catchers, but ultimately, the 13th position player on our team is either going to be a 3rd catcher, a 2nd utility infielder, or a 5th outfielder… all of which are by default superfluous. And two of our three catchers would be elite bats who can play extensively at 1B or DH, without us compromising any defensive flexibility since Cervelli’s sitting on the bench as the perfect insurance policy.

    Do it.

    • That was my original plan until I got to talking with Jamal about the history of 20 year olds in Major League Baseball. I don’t think it’s worth the risk for what will likely, at this point, be below-average production. If we want him to catch, stay in AAA for a few more weeks.

      • True, that’s the best counterargument; Jesus is most likely going to not hit or field well in his first taste of the bigs (as a 20 year old.

        There’s not really a need to do it, it’s just a nice icing on the icing. I just wanted to point out the irony of people calling for Jesus to be called up to fix a DH problem that’s not really there when he could just as easily be called up to fix a backup catcher problem that IS really there.

        Whatevs.

      • Irrational counter-counterargument to your rational counterargument:

        If Jesus did get called up this year and made the postseason roster, he’d be the first 20 year old rookie to hit a homer in the World Series (since I’m GUARAN-FRICKIN-TEEING that’s going to happen if this scenario plays out) since…

        … Miguel Cabrera.

        BOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOM, THAT JUST HAPPENED.

    • bexarama says:

      The problem with this plan is expecting Montero to come up and produce right away. I do believe he’s a special bat, but I also believe that he’s a 20-year-old that, until pretty recently, people were freaking out about not being able to handle AAA.

      Plus, I believe they really want him to work on his catching. I don’t think he’s a finished product there whatsoever – though let me clarify that I am in no way an expert and I’ve never seen him catch, I’m just going by what I’ve heard from other people.

      • Brien Jackson says:

        I don’t really see that as much of a problem, I’d just add that it depends entirely on what the orgzanization thinks of his capabilities at this point. If they think he can be a meaningful upgrade over Cervelli’s bat, and, more importantly, aren’t convinced Posada can be counted on to be a regular catcher, I’d be ok with bringing him up and letting him be the regular catcher. Even if he isn’t great at the position, if he’s playing it well enough at the AAA level that we haven’t had anyone mocking him relentlessly yet, he can’t be that much worse than Posada behind the plate.

      • Jorge says:

        Agreed as well. It took him a half-season to seemingly make the adjustment to AAA.

    • nsalem says:

      Good idea, but I think we also have to address the fact that if Jeter, Cano or Arod go down all we have is Pena to cover. If we had to play him (Pena) for a prolonged period
      we could really suffer.

      • Meh, if one of Jeter/ARod/Cano goes down for a prolonged period we’d be screwed regardless of whether we’re carrying one utility infielder backup or two.

        I don’t see how that doomsday scenario really factors into whether or not we should carry Juan Miranda or Jesus Montero as the 13th position player on the team.

        • nsalem says:

          Maybe you are right but I wouldn’t mind seeing an offensive minded player to cover second and third (such as Wiggington)
          and have a second utility IF such as Pena as his late inning replacement. Being naked with Pena we’d be screwed even more.

    • Abbey says:

      It seems that of all of the negative comments appearing in these posts regarding Frankie Cervelli most are from you(ridiculous upside the elder)
      The Yankees front office,management including Girardi,Pena etc. are all smitten by Cervelli’s defense. Granted, his BA has come down as of lately however he is still sitting at a respectable 274 as of yesterday.
      The pitching staff (interviewed by the media)freely love having him behind the plate.(Why would they say something like this if it wasn’t true).
      He is young (only 24) and still honing his catching skills.
      How many big league catchers are out there batting over 300.
      Finally is it mandatory for the Yankees or for that matter any other team to have a catcher batting over 300 to be in the roster?

      • Steve H says:

        Cervelli is a terrible hitter.

      • My responses:

        Firstly, you should mix in some punctuation and paragraph returns. It’s common courtesy.

        Secondly, neither I nor the Yankees front office or management evaluate the offensive production of a player solely based on batting average, as you repeatedly do. Batting average is only one small part of offensive production.

        Frankie Cervelli is slugging .344. He’s punchless, he has no power. And like all players who don’t hit for power or walk and have all their offensive value based around singles-hitting, his offense is very BABIP-luck based, so when the hits don’t fall in for singles, he’s utterly worthless at the plate, like in June where he hit .180/.275/.246.

        His offensive game is very limited, and while he has value as a backup catcher, if an upgrade can be found it should be. A little Frankie Cervelli is not a bad thing. A lot of Frankie Cervelli is a bad thing, because he’s not always going to be lucky and he’s a player that needs to be lucky to be productive.

        • Abbey says:

          I respect your opinion regarding Frankie Cervelli however I do not share it.

          I feel strongly that since he is very young and still growing as a big league player, his production at the plate will improve. Kevin Long has been spending extra time with him in BP and hopefully this will translate into increased production.

          He has significant value to the Yankee organization and sharing catching duties with Posada has worked well.

          • That’s fair and you’re entitled to your opinion. I also like Kevin Long and think he can help Cervelli with some things.

            Cervelli’s lengthy track record in the minors says he’s just not a good hitter, though, and there’s a good chance he just continues to regress. I’m bearish on his future. I don’t think his true talent level is anywhere near a .300 hitter, and with no power and scant walks, he needs to be close to .300 in batting average to not be an offensive negative.

            • Abbey says:

              To say he will regress is more than a bit strong.With advancing experience in the big leagues if anything there should be an improvement.

              Regardless, Cervelli is with the Yankees because of his glove, speed, hand quickness etc. That is the main reason why he is where he is.

              I am bullish on him

      • bexarama says:

        I’m not as down on Cervelli as many here are because he’s a backup catcher but that’s about it… he’s a backup catcher. He could hit .300, but it’d be a mostly empty .300 because he doesn’t walk a whole lot and he hits for almost no power. Posada’s value isn’t that he hits .300, because he generally doesn’t. It’s that he has very good plate discipline and can mash the crap out of baseballs.

        The pitching staff may love pitching to him, I don’t doubt this, but even if they didn’t, come on, they wouldn’t say that to the media.

        • And, again, my post didn’t say “kill Frankie Cervelli” or even “demote Frankie Cervelli”.

          It simply said “play Frankie Cervelli less and Jesus Montero/Jorge Posada more”. I don’t think that qualifies as Cervelli hate. I like him as a backup, and like all Yankee fans, I like my backups to play as little as possible.

  10. jsbrendog (returns) says:

    carlos. delgado.

    he already said he would take a MiL deal to get going first because he plans on playing next yr too and understands that he needs to show eh is healthy first.

    • Steve H says:

      Agreed.

      There are a ton of DH options to exhaust before bringing up Montero (who is far from a sure thing right now) and stunting his development. Delgado, Dye, in house guys, cheap trades (like Cust mentioned above). If you could guarantee me that Montero was going to come up and OPS+ 135 or so I’d be more tempted, but still would rather him stay in the minors until they Yankees are sure he can or can’t catch. Too many options to jump the gun on Montero.

      • If you could guarantee me that Montero was going to come up and OPS+ 135 or so I’d be more tempted…

        I guarantee* Montero will come up and OPS+ 135.

        (* “Guarantee” is non-binding and non-guaranteed. tommiesmithjohncarlos a/k/a Ridiculous Upside the Elder reserves the right to rescind guarantee at any time with no rights reserved to the recipient of the guarantee. Past performance does not guarantee future results. The prospectus contains complete details on investment objectives, risks, fees, charges and expenses as well as other information about the investment company. Please read the prospectuses carefully containing this and other information on the product and the underlying portfolios and consider these factors carefully before investing.)

    • BUT HE REFUSED TO STAND FOR THE FLAG, THAT COMMIE PINKO TERRORIST SYMPATHIZER JERKFACE!!!!!!!1!!

      /irrelevantrationaletohatecarlosdelgado’d

  11. Bob says:

    Jesus is just alright with me.

    In terms of a rotating DH, say next year or afterwards, even if he’s not a 125-G catcher, maybe he can catch 50 or so Gs a season, DH some other Gs, rotate other guys in/out of DH, and NYY could maybe carry 2 other catchers, b/c the DH spot would be covered w/o committing to 1 specifig guy, a la Hidki/Nick. 2012: Romine/Cervelli & Montero. Remember Leyritz was sortof like that for a while.

  12. CS Yankee says:

    Poasada’s bat carried him to the starting MLB gig as a catcher; for the Yankees no less.

    I don’t like the platoon & The Montero hot streak could lead to a number of viable options for 2011 (& beyond)…
    1) Have him catch 50-70 games behind Posada next year with another 50+ as the DH.
    2) Have him DH 100-120 games next year and be the 3rd catcher (behind Gazoo).
    3) Have him spend another year (or most of) in AAA to really develop him as a decent catcher. He is still really young and has improved his throw-downs to 2B.
    4) Trade him for a “Lee” type player…except one that has 3-5 years of team control (a Cain type player).

    No problem with a August/September call up if he continues to rake as this would only increase his trade value. I would love for them to keep him, but if they decide to trade they better get a huge long term inpact player(s).

    • Gonzo says:

      I am in no way a scout or organizational guy, but I would think that only catching 50-70 games a year, at such a young age, might stunt any possibility of him becoming a passable catcher.*

      *Not a professional here.

    • CS Yankee says:

      When I say I don’t like the platoon it means that I don’t like a rotating DH (Arod, Teix, etc)…I’m fine with Miranda/Thames for now but would perfer a healthy NJ, Werth or Dunn come postseason.

  13. Brooklyn Ed says:

    I still think if Cashman doesn’t find a replacement DH by next Saturday, Montero will be up.

    Correct me if I’m wrong, in order for THE JESUS to be eligible for the post season roster, he has to be up by Augst 31???

    • CS Yankee says:

      If your right, does Romaine jump up to AAA to fill the spot (progress) or does he still need the time in Trenton?

      • Brooklyn Ed says:

        Romine jumping to AAA would be interesting. if the SWB Yanks are in the playoffs, I would guess he would make the leap or just have Montero stay in AAA until the playoffs are over.

      • Angelo says:

        I still think Romine would stay in Trenton. You do realize Romine hasn’t really hit all that well since the beginning of June? Right?

    • Ross in Jersey says:

      You have to be on the 40 man to be placed on the post-season roster, I don’t think there’s any rule about prior service time in the bigs.

      • Jose the Satirist says:

        He didn’t say anything about prior service time. You have to be on the roster by August 31st. He is correct about that.

    • Jose the Satirist says:

      Next Saturday is July 31st.

    • Steve H says:

      I think if he replaced an injured player on the active roster after Sept. 1st he’d be eligible, so it can be done. Pretty sure that’s how K-Rod got on in 2002.

    • Correct me if I’m wrong, in order for THE JESUS to be eligible for the post season roster, he has to be up by Augst 31???

      If Nick Johnson stays on the 60-day DL, we get a roster exemption to the August 31st deadline and can add any one player we choose to the postseason roster regardless of where he was in the system.

      Shit, we could sign Jermaine Dye the day before the playoffs begins and add him to the postseason roster. Nick Johnson is like a Get Out Of Jail Free card.

      • Brooklyn Ed says:

        lol sad but true. we could even sign Mussina too in effort to win his first ring.

      • nsalem says:

        I think your correct. That’s how K-Rod got in the post season in 2002.

        • Jose the Satirist says:

          Yup. He replaced Steve Green who had been on the 60 DL since March 11th. K-rod had his first major league game September 18th. He was eligible for the post season. Loopholes FTW!

          • nsalem says:

            was he on the 40 man roster though.

            • But he wasn’t on the 40 man until after the August 31st “deadline”, though.

              If we wanted Montero on the postseason roster, yes, we’d have to add him to the 40-man, but Nick’s injury means we don’t have to add him by any certain date. We can do it after the season ends if we want.

              There’s one or two players who have made their first big league appearance in the playoffs without playing in any regular season games first thanks to that loophole.

      • CS Yankee says:

        Nick Johnson is also eco friendly…

        as his initial order of bats have only been collecting dust.

      • Jose the Satirist says:

        I believe the added player has to be the same position though. So if Montero came up and played the majority of time at C, I don’t know that he can replace Johnson.

        • CS Yankee says:

          No it doesn’t…any position.

          • Jose the Satirist says:

            You sure? I thought it was grouped catchers, infielders, outfielders, and pitchers. So a SS on the 60 DL can’t be replaced by a pitcher for the post season. You got a link to confirm that?

            • CS Yankee says:

              I don’t have the link, but recall that the K-rod thing included that a position player was out & they added a pitcher with the logic being that some teams carry 13 pitchers in a round and can change that before the next round, while others want the 5th OF or another UIF. It would be too hard to police it.

              …shouldn’t have replied without knowing for sure.

              sorry.

              • Jose the Satirist says:

                K-rod replaced Steve Green, who was a relief pitcher. This link: http://mikesrants.baseballtoas...../6934.html seems to agree with my theory about replacing an injured player with a player of similar position.

                • CS Yankee says:

                  my bad.

                  reading that though he says that the 25 players must be set by 8-31 and goes on to finish that with they must chhose the 25 for each round.

                  when it says “set”, I guess it means they must be active on that date or on the DL…or does it mean that the 25 must come from the 40 as of 8-31?

                  It is always a story of who makes the list just prior to each round so the “set” wording is confusing.

                  What is “is”
                  /Clinton’d

              • Steve H says:

                …shouldn’t have replied without knowing for sure.

                It’s the internet, that’s exactly what you’re supposed to do.

            • I think you’re thinking of a different postseason rule. If a player is injured during the playoffs, he can be replaced by any player at the same position.

              But the 60-day DL rule lets you replace any player with any other player. No restriction.

  14. larryf says:

    Going to a Scranton game next Friday so I am selfishly hoping Jesus is still there and still hot. The next day is an autograph session where I assume most of the players will be signing. I will take my/our questions to Jesus and report back :-)

  15. Tony says:

    Go on twitter and use hashtag #wewantJesus if u want Montero called up

  16. CJ says:

    Bring up Jesus Montero. He will hit better in NY. He’s raking now, more fastballs batting 6-8 in Yanks lineup and he wont have to think about catching. See the ball, hit the ball. I could see his Aug-Sept potentially matching Miguel cabrera and out-producing Cody Ross, Josh Willingham by far.

    • bexarama says:

      I could see his Aug-Sept potentially matching Miguel cabrera

      Saying stuff like this at this point in Montero’s development is pretty much only setting yourself up for disappointment.

    • forensicnucchem says:

      Please tell me you’re referring to the 20 year old version of Miguel Cabrera who OPS+’d 106, which by the way, is still way too high an expectation for him.

      Why don’t people realize that it took him almost 3 months just to figure out AAA pitching. Just because he’s hot doesn’t mean it won’t take him months to figure out MLB pitching.

      • Steve H says:

        But what about the World Series? Who can forget that HR he hit off of Clemens? I do remember that. What I didn’t remember was Cabrera’s line that WS.

        .167/.200/.292

      • joe says:

        I agree with you that it could take months and even a couple years to hit major league pitching. This idea however that you could ruin his development if you called him up this year is a load of garbage. I know Rick Porcello who plays for the Tigers organization and while he was sent down because he was mightily struggling I definitely did not believe he was brought up too early last year. Believe me when I tell you when I watched Rick Porcello at Seton Hall Prep I was thinking to myself it would be a tragic mistake if this kid was not given a chance in the majors from what I saw of him. When I watched him pitched even on high school level I analyzed just about everything about him that would be necessary to succeed on the major league level and he was able to do it. What has happened to him this year is that the league has caught up to him and he has not been able to make adjustments. It’s NOT stunting his growth it’s called being open to opportunity when called upon.

  17. CJ says:

    added value in bringing him up to play is to mature under the leadership of Jeter, Jorge and Mo.

  18. Tony says:

    They could give Montero some games behind the plate as well every once in a while. It’s not like he would have 2 get stretched out again next year and have to change his routine like they did with Joba

  19. forensicnucchem says:

    Another unmentioned aspect of the rotating DH is that it leads to those 51 PA’s of 72 OPS+ from pinch hitters. That may not seem like much, but if they keep the Miranda/Thames thing going and maybe make a switch late in many games, then that is going to be over 100 PA’s of potentially very terrible hitting.

  20. Ross in Jersey says:

    @PeteAbe “#Yankees have one of their best pro scouts, Rick Williams, in Seattle to see #RedSox-#Mariners tonight”

    Sort of off-topic but maybe not. Who do you think he’s scouting?

  21. DeeDee says:

    What cheap DH options could be available via trade? Any ideas?

  22. Andrew Brotherton says:

    Even if Montero mashes from here on out I still don’t think he will be up until September, knowing they have the ace in the hole of Nick Johnson’s spot to bring him up for the post season roster will probably be the Yankees play. I’m just excited in general for September. Also for all the talk about these other teams in the league, the Yankees really aren’t playing their best and we are still leading the toughest division in baseball by 2.5 games. I’m very sure we will hit another streak soon, and Tampa better hope they do something major because the Yankees could easily run away from them.

  23. YanksFan77 says:

    I don’t understand the argument that bringing him up will hamper his defensive development at C. It’s not like he’s catching every game for Scranton, he seems to be DHing at least 2 or 3 games a week, does anybody have the splits on that one?

  24. Ummmm says:

    If the Yanks were a losing team, I think they would be thinking about bringing up Montero and giving him some at-bats before September. And even if that happened, they’d have modest expectations. The move wouldn’t be made with the expectation of his helping the big league team win a championship. The move would be made to help with Montero’s development.
    But the Yankees are a winning team. By record, the best team. They are most definitely focused on winning another world series. They’re leaving Montero’s development at this point to their minor league system. They might give him some ABs in September, after rosters expand and there will be no expectations at all on Montero.
    Another thing about Montero is that the Yankees are not going to be trading him this season, if at all, because there is no one on the trade market worth giving up Montero to get. Moreover, the Yanks aren’t desperate. Cliff Lee was a special case, a proven AL ace and a lefty, to boot. I’m sure Roy Oswalt would be awfully tempting, but I don’t think Cashman would give up Montero even for Oswalt. Same goes for Danny Haren.
    As for the Yankees’ DH thing, I think they ought to stay “in house.” Use a platoon of Thames and Miranda and occasionally give a day off to Swish or A-Rod or Jeter by having one of them DH. Their offense is not exactly hurting as is. They’ve got the best record in the game and both Jeter and A-Rod are having sub-par seasons. What if Jeter and A-Rod both hit from this point on?

  25. Ted Nelson says:

    Where does this notion come from that Frankie doesn’t walk? His BB/PA this season is higher than Jeter, Cano, and Granderson. In the same number of plate appearances Swisher and A-Rod would have gotten 2 and 3 more walks, respectively. He has no power, but Cervelli is a decent contact hitter.

    Let’s be realistic here. By my count FC is a solid back-up C offensively and several contending teams have a starter who is worse.

    Ramiro Pena’s .441 OPS is a lot more troubling to me than Cervelli’s bat. He had a Minor League OPS of .747 and is at .679 across 2 MLB seasons. He’s not Mike Piazza, but he’s respectable enough with the bat to have a long career.

  26. Double J says:

    The other question regarding Montero is where does his future lie. He’s proven that he’s not a catcher but a big hitter who wears a chest protector (stolen from The Baseball America podcast. There is no room at first base for him because of Teixeira. So are they going to try him in LF or is he going to be a career DH, like Travis Hafner? The difference being Hafner broke into the league at 25, while Montero should be up next year at only 21.

  27. Mooch says:

    If Montero’s bat is what everyone says it is (I often here Edgar Martinez and Manny Ramirez comparisons) then who cares about his defense or his position. Bring him up as a DH. Edgar was never a position player and Manny should never have been but there offense is so grand that it never mattered.

    I say bring him up and DH him everyday. He will get nothing but fastballs hitting behind Tex, Arod, and Cano. He has proven he can mash those. Let Romine be the catcher of the future.

    The glitch in this plan is if he is not the hitter everyone says and is a product of the Yankee hype machine. If that is the case, then he should be traded right now while his value is extremely high. But everything I have seen about this kid is not the case. He is only 20 and has destroyed every league he has been in.

  28. andyg55 says:

    I would like to see the Yanks improve their bench. Pena is an automatic out. I like Thames but he cannot hit a curve ball and is a negative in the field. Curtis looks impressive but is just an outfielder. I would like the yanks to pick up a versatile veteran player. Wigginton is one name that comes to mind. He can play a number of positions, is a veteran and has some homerun pop in his bat. Same with Willie Bloomquist of the Mariners. He can play a number of positions, is a veteran and can steal a base for you.

  29. LathamJoe says:

    Guys like Wiggington or Hairston would have been perfect options as utilitymen for this team. Each can hit a lick and won’t embarrass you in the field.
    One of Cashman’s seemingly endless mistakes was not offering Matsui a decent two-year deal with the understanding that his future would be almost exclusively a DH with an occasional start in LF. He is the ultimate answer at the postion, a clutch hitter against good teams and tough pitchers, especially in the friendly confines of Yankee Stadium.
    Be that as it may, the most pressing need at this juncture is a SP. Trying to deal for Soria will be too costly right now and a RP is just not worth the asking price. Setup/Closers are just not a good long term investment at the price KC would be asking.
    A SP, someone like Haren, could come at a reasonable price, allow Hughes to become the 8th inning guy once again, and send a faltering Joba back to AAA to work on his mechanics/command.

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