Open Thread: One more baseball-less night

ALCS Scouting Reports
The Cliff Lee connection
(AP Photo/Tony Gutierrez)

It’s been a long week for us Yankee fans, who watched the team clinch an ALCS berth way back on Saturday. Five days later, we are still without baseball, but that’s going to change roughly 24 hours from now. The Yanks arrived in Dallas earlier today and had a little workout session at the park today in advance of tomorrow’s Game One. Every game they play from here on out will be the most important game of the season, and I can’t wait.

Here’s the open thread for the night. None of the hockey or basketball locals are in the action, and the NLCS doesn’t start until Saturday. Looks like one of those nights when you’ll actually have to leave the basement to entertain yourself. I know, what the hell is up with that? Anyway, you guys know what to do, so have at it.

ALCS Scouting Reports
The Cliff Lee connection
  • Bryan

    Fuck. Why does Game 1 have to be on a Friday night…


    •!/iiKeane JobaWockeeZ


  • Rebecca-Optimist Prime-Mrs. OBP Jesus Maquinito

    1) Apparently Mantle played his entire career on a torn ACL.

    2) If you’re bored, I’m doing a preview live chat on my blog in an hour, stop by!

    • Jake LaMotta’s Left Hook

      Possibly count me in. I’m bored… the guys who decide when TV shows go on air are terrible people. Everything just happens to be tomorrow.

    • Mike HC

      If true, that is really something. Back in that day, I would bet a lot of guys played with injuries like that without even knowing it. Especially pitcher’s arms.

      • Rebecca-Optimist Prime-Mrs. OBP Jesus Maquinito

        Well, sure, a lot of guys played injured but have you seen how much pain someone’s usually in when they tear an ACL?

        • Mike HC

          Yea. Most of the time they are writhing on the ground, on the verge of tears. Some of that I think is the knowledge that your season is over and over a year of rehab is ahead. But I didn’t mean to diminish Mantle. Just saying I’m sure stuff we know today, they did not know back then.

          • Jose the Satirist

            “Most of the time they are writhing on the ground, on the verge of tears.”

            ACL tears are often a brief sharp pain then little pain. People may hear/feel a “pop”, then have instability and swelling, but not as much pain as you describe. Some athletes can even continue to play after tearing an ACL. Though that is rare.

            • JGS


              Especially after they repaired the collateral damage (torn MCL, meniscus) that went along with the ACL tear. The knee would still be unstable though, making Mantle’s career even more remarkable than it already was.

            • Dela G

              “ACL tears are often a brief sharp pain then little pain”

              i tore my acl and pcl and cried like a schoolgirl

              not as painless as some say

              • Tom Zig

                /IronHorse bait’d

            • Mike HC

              oh yea. I’m sure its no big deal, ha.

              • Jose the Satirist

                Yeah, that is what I was saying.

        • Hughesus Christo

          Well, it’s not really painful after that. Dejuan Blair plays in the NBA without either ACL.

        • ryan

          actually, tearing your acl is painless. It’s a partial tear that hurts

          • JFH

            severed my acl, tore my mcl. but hurt like a B***H.

            i went 10 years before fixing the acl. playing on it was ok when it held up. but both partial and full tears hurt.

    • larryf

      and was an alcoholic who was also sexually abused as a child. A pretty good career in spite of it all. What #’s the guy could have put up if healthy! Also a tremendous drag bunter from the left side. Not many guys in the 500+ HR club could say that. I am one of the old guys around here who saw him play my first time to the stadium. 5 for 5 with a homer from each side of the plate.

    • Jerome S.

      8:00: Sudden, massive abandonment of RAB.

      • Rebecca-Optimist Prime-Mrs. OBP Jesus Maquinito

        I like the way you think

  • thurdonpaul

    I know nothing could have really been done different, but this long layoff sucksss.

    • Mike HC

      I actually didn’t mind the layoff. More time to savor the easy victory over the Twins.

  • Richard Iurilli
    • Bryan

      Absolutely hilarious.

    • Rebecca-Optimist Prime-Mrs. OBP Jesus Maquinito

      You all are having way, way too much fun with that

    • poster on another computer who happens to be a deuce bag

      My 2 favorites:

      3 minutes ago via TweetDeck StevieGFTM: RT @mikeaxisa: Tommy John wants Cliff Lee surgery. #cliffleefacts

      4 minutes ago via Echofon AboveAverageA: Cliff Lee said to a bunch a people today he is not “The Messiah”, however he said this while walking over water.

    • Richard Iurilli
  • TopChuckie

    Had enough Cliff Lee talk yet?

    We can all agree we’d much rather the Yanks were sending Lee to the mound rather than facing him, but how about these hypotheticals?

    1. Back in June we didn’t know for sure what we know now, that the Yanks would make the post-season and cruise through the ALDS. The best rumored trade offer I heard back in June was Montero, Adams & McAllister (Since he’s gone assume similar valued prospect) for Lee. If trades were allowed right now, would you make that trade? (Don’t assume the Rangers would get the players from the Yankees, just assume they’d have to sacrifice those players to move Lee from the Rangers to the Yankees.

    2. Are you more or less in favor of that trade now than you were in June? In other words, Yanks made it this far without him, they can go all the way without him and still have Montero. Or now that he really stands in the way of the WS, I am even more willing to sacrifice those players.

    3. How does the Phillies and the probable match up with their rotation affect your opinion?

    4. As the asking price and maybe length of contract demands increase with each Lee post-season success story, does the likelihood of the Yanks signing him increase or decrease? Is he pricing himself out of their comfort zone, considering the other aging contracts they’ll be “saddled” with in 5+ years? Or is he pricing himself into only the Yanks budget? Would beating the Yanks and winning the WS force the Rangers to keep him at all costs with their new TV money? Is there really any other team in the discussion anymore?

    • Rebecca-Optimist Prime-Mrs. OBP Jesus Maquinito

      No, less, not at all, increase

    • vin

      No, less, somewhat, increase.

      I don’t think the Yanks need him now, because they ARE the better team, and better than the Phils and Giants to boot.

      However, I was in favor of the trade at the time. And knowing then, what I know now, would I favor the trade? Yes.

      The Yanks don’t need Cliff Lee to help them make the postseason (even the Rangers didn’t need him for that). They don’t need a guy like Lee to beat up on the Twins. They do need him to beat the best the AL has to offer, as well as win the WS.

      They can win the ALCS and WS without Lee, but he would give them much more certainty. Imagine, if you will, a rotation of:

      CC, Pettitte/Hughes, Lee, Hughes/Pettitte, CC, Pettitte/Hughes, Lee

      You can either have Phil or Andy make two starts – depending on effectiveness at the time and platoon splits, etc.

      That’s downright nasty. AJ and Javy can chill out in the Steinbrenner’s box during the games and prepare the champagne in the clinchers.

    • bexarama

      1. No.

      2. A little more, because I think it would’ve made things A LOT easier when AJ and Javy imploded, Hughes struggled, and Andy got hurt and was out for like the entire second half. I still wouldn’t do it though.

      3. Not much at all. Cliff Lee certainly gives us a better chance to win this year, but Lee + Montero for the next few years >>> Lee this year and the next few years if we signed him to an extension, with no Montero. And I’m not even as crazy about Montero as others here, to be honest…

      4. As the asking price and maybe length of contract demands increase with each Lee post-season success story
      really, really don’t think so

      does the likelihood of the Yanks signing him increase or decrease?
      If the chances of Lee being paid more goes up, that always favors the Yankees. If the Rangers win the WS, maybe the chance of him resigning with them goes up a littttttle bit… but I dunno, I don’t see it.

    •!/iiKeane JobaWockeeZ

      1. Not at all. Any deal with Jesus to a player that’s going to FA in a few months is not a good deal IMHO. Now trading Jesus for 2 or 3 games pitched if I’m reading the question right is really really bad. Jorge is going to be nearly impossible to replace. I want as much chances as we can get making sure we have an adequate replacement.

      2. Same. I don’t want Lee if it costs Montero because he’s only going to cost money if you wait it out. You still have a good chance of winning it all without him. Tough yes but it’s not a must.

      3. Not much. The Phillies didn’t score much off the Reds and they probably had the worst rotation for playoff teams. Their pitching is scary but the Yanks pitching isn’t soooooo far behind.

      4. No idea. It depends if they value Jesus expendable or if they view Jesus as a really damn god prospect but Lee is still worth it. If he’s asking for Sabathia money they may pass. If it’s the second mentality then it’s everything for Lee.

  • Greg Golson

    Happy Birthday Joe Girardi

  • Rebecca-Optimist Prime-Mrs. OBP Jesus Maquinito

    Since I know you’re bored, come and join the live chat!

  • pat

    This live version of 30 Rock blooooooooows.

  • bexarama

    Heh did anyone else see that awful segment on MLBN that was like “Mariano was 0-2 against the Red Sox in 2004! And he’s 0-2 against the Rangers in 2010! BOOGA BOOGA!!!!!”

    • vin

      MLBN is disappointing. They have a great opportunity to provide useful commentary, and they have left me disappointed.

      I had this thought last year – how great would a stat-geek/SABR-friendly show be on that network?! I know they have a fantasy show, but the rest of the time they have guys like Reynolds and Williams making fun of stat-heads.

      • Jake LaMotta’s Left Hook

        Back in the ’32, the only stat that mattered was how much Tobacco a player could chew up and spit out throughout the game.


        • vin


    • rek4gehrig

      Yeah I saw it this morning. Total nonsense. Obvie they dont really know the postseason Mo.

  • candyforstalin

    number above which you wouldn’t want the yankees to sign cliff lee.


    • Tom Zig


    • vin

      Good question.

      He’s 32. I wouldn’t want to sign him for more than 6 years. 6/22 seems like the absolute most I would go. So that’s 132. 120 is much more palatable though.

      • Avi

        The Rangers new owner Chuck Greenberg, is a VERY business savvy guy and he just signed a new TV deal worth hundreds of millions of dollars. If I had to bet my bottom dollar I’d say the yanks will end up with him, but not without a serious fight from the Rangers.

    • DallasGreen

      no more than 6/130

    • Accent Shallow


      •!/iiKeane JobaWockeeZ


      • Tom Zig

        He’ll sign for more than that. I’m thinking around 120-135 over 6. But no more than 150.

    • Joseph Cecala

      Give him the Kovalchuk deal. I rather see him get small amounts after he retires than 22mil when hes 38

  • Once and Future Lurker

    I’ve got a question which I hope someone more statistically-inclined than myself can answer: are the playoffs statistically significant?

    The winner of any given baseball game is almost random, but not quite, which explains the length of the regular season. Assuming that 162 games is enough to populate the postseason with the best teams, what does a five or seven game series tell you? The Yankees have both lost five in a row and won seven in a row this season; if they’d hit that skid in the ALDS they’d be out, despite being the better team during the regular season. Doesn’t that suggest something wrong with the playoff system, when you can lose on pure luck?

    That being said, I think there’s a lot of merit to the marathon/sprint analogy. It may be worth it to consider the baseball season as simply consisting of two parts, where the regular season only serves to separate the wheat from the chaff. Maybe the whole point is to find the best combination of whatever intangibles contribute to a World Series team, and I’m just overthinking it. There are also some wildcard implications in here, if anyone’s interested.

    •!/iiKeane JobaWockeeZ

      Definitely luck can be a huge factor in a short series. Many times a lesser team can win it all. Ignoring the last 4 games of the 2004 ALCS, the Yankees were beating a statistically superior team.

      I don’t know how to fix it. One thing you can do is make the ALDS 7 games.

    • Stratman9652

      The only way to sum up the post is by saying that you just can’t predict baseball. You could play a sudden death single game, a 3 game series, a 5, 7, 9 or any other size series and get a different result every time. Its entertainment folks.

  • cookiecc

    could we mention, just for the record, how many homegrown yankees are on this team? I’m sick of hearing about how we’re buying it again.

    Phil Hughes
    Andy Pettitte
    Jorge Posada
    Derek Jeter
    Robinson Cano
    Brett Gardner
    Francisco Cervelli
    Mariano Rivera
    Joba Chamberlain
    (David Robertson?)

    Cashman’s non big money players:


    The big $$ names:


    •!/iiKeane JobaWockeeZ

      Using fWAR the Yankees have an even 25 percent split for each facet in acquiring talent. Meaning 25 percent of their value comes from free agents, from trades, fromt he draft and from IFA signings.

      Boston on the other hand gets most of its value from free agents.

    • Tom Zig

      D-Rob was a draftee.

      Swisher, Logan, Grandy, Wood, Berkman all were trades too.

      Technically A-Rod was traded for as well.

      The Yankees have only have 6 free agents on the current active roster. (IFAs excluded)

    • Dirty Pena

      Since it’s for the record, you forgot Ramiro Pena. And Marcus Thames if you wanna get cute.

      • Stratman9652

        And Kearns and Golson. Although Golson was a trade after spending most of his career in the minors for other teams.

    • Joe P

      Amen to this post. I can’t stand how much I hear about that in Upstate NY. It somewhat blends into New England up here…

      • Avi

        Well New England has nothing to gripe about. They have the second highest payroll in the game.

    • Avi

      There’s no question the Yankees have done a great job developing talent. But to suggest that money has nothing to do with it is TOTALLY inaccurate. If every team was able to pay their home-grown Jeters, Riveras, Posadas to retain them plus have the money to bring in a CC and Tex and also trade for expensive guys like Arod there would probably be MANY more teams in our position.
      This doesn’t take away from the sweetness when they win for me.

      • Tom Zig

        Well like you said New England has nothing to gripe about. They almost traded for Arod, they almost signed Tex, they spent 51mil just to talk to Dice-K.

  • Avi

    Wow! This has bothered me for a long time and it’s nice to hear someone else bring it up.
    You’re 100% right. The people who created baseball got it right. It does take 162 games to determine who the best teams are.
    In any given year the best team will lose sixty games and the worst team will win sixty.
    The nature of the game is such that you can hit a rocket line drive and have it go right at a fielder or hit the softest of rollers and reach base. It’s very possible for a team to hit the ball hard more times than their opponent over the course of a single game and STILL LOSE.
    In what other game can you outperform your opponent and lose??

    The wild card and three playoff rounds is all about the players and owners maximizing their profits; nothing else.
    Any team no matter how good, can loose to ANY other Major League team in a best of seven and especially a best of 5 series.
    Winning a short series proves nothing in terms of which is the superior team!

  • It’sATarp

    hmm Jair Jurrjens might be on the trading block…he would be an interesting pitcher to look at if Cliff Lee falls through.

    • Hughesus Christo

      Never trade with the Braves

    • Avi

      How bout Ted Lilly as a fall back option?
      I think he’s the second best guy out there..

      • JMK

        LOL. I think Wakefield throws harder than him at this point. No thanks.

  • JFH

    after watching the experts this week, apparently i need to stop following jesus and start worshipping cliff lee.

    • It’sATarp

      one analyst comapared Cliff Lee to god and said Lee was better in baseball than God…so yea time to give up on Christianity and start worshiping CliffLeeianity

      • JFH

        cliffleeianity! lol!

  • JFH

    the game 3, mick kelleher hit-by errant-throw video still makes me laugh.

    • Avi

      Poor guy.
      Do coaches wear cups?

  • dan genovese

    lee is ours ,no way he signs with anyone else.