Nov
09
Open Thread: Are you ready for some football?
By
(Photo Credit: The RAB Bullpen)
Yankee Stadium isn’t looking much like a baseball park these days. The infield is gone, the pitcher’s mound has disappeared, and there are giant goal posts behind the plate and in centerfield. Army and Notre Dame meet in the Stadium on Nov. 20th, then a month later the Pinstripe Bowl will be played between still unknown teams. Kinda looks weird, no? Hey, anything that makes the Yankees money, I’m all for it. Derek Jeter‘s inevitable contract won’t pay for itself.
Anyway, here’s is your open thread for this fine evening. The Rangers, Knicks, and Nets are all playing in various cities at various times. Chat about whatever you like, and go ahead and be as vicious and you want.
305 Comments»
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The Tyler Austin Watch
I saw The Pitching Paradigm today on MLBN. It was a really informative piece. The evolution of pitching is a very interesting topic, and I think these guys nailed it on the head.
What is this… football… thing you speak of?
Cashman: I’ll give Derek 3/60.
Close: I want more.
Cashman: I’ll also throw in two free luxury box seats to every Pinstripe Bowl we host.
Close: I said more, not less.
… aaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaand, SCENE!
+1
Director: “Cash, Close… that was good and all, real good actually, but this time let’s try it with your mouth more open. This is going to be golden people…. and action!”
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lwjmUWh-ymo (SFW)
Seems like the “Main” level is gonna be the best seats to watch these games.
Some of those bleacher seats don’t look so bad.
I just realized something… The Mohegan Sports Bar is gonna be a hot ticket for the game.
How much are they paying me to watch Cincinnati v. Iowa State from the Main level seats in the December cold, now?
Don’t worry they are going to show Game 6 of the 2009 WS on the screen during the football game.
In light of this information, I’m willing to lower my appearance fee from $500 to $450.
And I actually like football.
Mondesi,
I’m going to blow your mind like I did bexy a week ago.
I don’t dislike or hate UZR.
So you’re neutral towards it?
:: head explodes ::
I would say I’m skeptical.
I have not been able to find enough information on it to develop an informed enough opinion to hate it.
I should add, I do dislike the way it is used. I am not neutral on that.
But you looooove arguing
Can’t argue with that. Or can I?
In my defense, to borrow a line from tommie the way some of these stats are used I view that type of thing as “intellectual laziness” compared to what sportswriters or whatever say. So I challenge that strongly.
I do love to argue though especially when tommie gets upset with me
What would you guys do without me arguing all the time. Booooring.
We’d argue without getting sidetracked by nihilistic inanity. And we’d love it.
I don’t blindly use UZR either, nor FIP, nor really any sabermetric/other stat. I don’t think tommie or too many people do either. Just when you vehemently argue over the awesomeness of PITCHER WINS! and talk in circles about things you supposedly do not care about it is very tiring.
Just when you vehemently argue over the awesomeness of PITCHER WINS! and talk in circles about things you supposedly do not care about it is very tiring.
He thinks he’s providing RAB with a great public service, being the devil’s advocate.
He’s not, though.
Seriously. Doesn’t he know that’s Poopy Pants’ job?
(I kid.)
I did laugh a little that PP came on at the tail end of that convo and agreed with ZZ. It was like a meeting of the minds.
I am not playing the devil’s advocate. I believe everything I post.
Whether you do or don’t doesn’t really matter, it’s tiresome regardless.
That’s interesting. That’s the way I feel about many of the topics I disagree with that are repeated so often.
And yet you find a way to make those tiresome topics even more tiresome with your pedantic nitpicks and vapid deconstructions that serve no real purpose.
How does it serve no real purpose to challenge someone’s opinion on something?
At the very least when I do that I can learn more from that person about why they believe what they believe.
But you already know most of these things about how the rest of us think and engage in this silly little dance anyway.
Screw that. You bore me now.
Do you really think I post differing opinions for the sake of having a different opinion?
I really think I don’t care anymore.
Sometimes, yes.
You didn’t like my comment on pitcher wins??? That was gold.
What are you basing this opinion on?
My observation of how that post ranks up with other posts.
So that is the only way to evaluate whether your comment on pitcher-wins was gold?
Your observation?
(gets popcorn, enjoys show)
I would welcome more information or data to evaluate it if you have some.
You can never have enough ways to evaluate something.
Your opinion is not compelling unless the approaches taken have more variety and alternate frameworks.
I don’t know what to think of your opinion that your comment on pitcher-wins was gold because it hasn’t been tested nearly enough and you haven’t released nearly enough information on the framework + how you arrived at this framework for me to have an informed opinion.
I don’t dislike your opinion that your comment on pitcher-wins was gold, but I have no clue what to think of it.
Mondesi, we should continue this skewering of ZZ on Twitter, where he can’t see it and will be frustrated that the convo doesn’t include him.
Nah, you had it right above, it’s just boring at this point. His comments, making fun of his comments, all of it. (I’ve gotta run, anyway.)
My opinion is not something people find as compelling evidence it in of itself. You can’t cite me as a source.
By presenting it as my opinion or how I feel it carries with it the implicit assumption of subjectivity, skepticism, and doubt.
By putting forth my opinion I welcome others to challenge it in their own way in order to develop the concept. I encourage it and hope people do so.
The way defensive metrics are presented, displayed, and used in arguments they put forth the implicit assumption that it has gone through this rigorous testing that all statistical frameworks go through.
Putting forth these type of statistics bears responsibility. An honest statistician publishes their framework, testing, and methods so they can go through this rigorous testing and in the end everyone benefits.
Those that publish defensive metrics do not do this. It is why it is not compelling, difficult to form an opinion on, and dishonest.
The comparison is not apt to how I applied it.
(jumps off the ZZ boring tangent train to nowhere and lets him ride it alone)
I thought you already did that 15 minutes ago?
Ok that is your opinion and evaluating UZR is highly subjective.
It looks like ZZ’s comments have made you upset. Why do you care about these stupid comments so much? I mean some commenters get more worked up over this nonsense than the site admins do.
So some commenters get more worked up over this nonsense than the site admins do?
Why exactly is that?
(Adds 20 more comments about how unreliable/untested the rationale underpinning everyone else’s opinion comments is and then makes one separate opinion comment totally unsubstantiated and backed by nothing other than his own personal opinion which cannot and should not be crosschecked by any type of scrutiny or investigation whatsoever)
I see what you did there. You keep me on my toes carlos.
Billy Ripken has to be a typical Yanks fan. He just has to. He suggested that we should sign Lee, Crawford, and bring back the three wise men.
No, he’s not. He said the Rangers would win the ALCS… and the reason he provided was that Mo was 0-2 against the ZOMG2004!!!! Red Sox and 0-2 against the 2010 Texas Rangers. That was the only reason he gave.
I was laughing at that, but seriously, he’s gotta be Bret. An Orioles guy who takes all his airtime to talk about the Yanks.
Can’t be Bret, he’s never mentioned future HOF Jeremy Hellickson.
I bet he will in 2011 when they’re doing preseason predictions.
I would just like to say the thread about the Gold Gloves was A++++ funny
What metric did you use to arrive at that many pluses?
B-HuMr, the Bexy humor index. Had to check my spreadsheet to see which jokes were funny and which weren’t.
(I laughed. And didn’t look at a spreadsheet.)
I am really tempted to call you numb nuts right now.
You know, the men in my family have always said “numb nuts,” but I had never seen it written out until today and I didn’t realize that was what it was.
I don’t think that’s what it was meant to mean. OR IS IT?
Has anyone noticed some ‘Yankee fans’ have resorted to calling Jeter a bad guy because of the rumors of what he wants in his next contract? I’ve noticed it a lot around the interwebz, it’s insane.
They’ve been doing it for a while. Outright pisses me off. Sorry he wants to make money like… I dunno… everyone else on the planet.
Look, if Jeter starts holding the franchise hostage because he wants A-Rod years/money, that’s one thing. But do we really have to call him an asshole because Heyman talked to someone who guessed at what Jeter might want in an ideal world?
It pisses you off? Why would you get so bent out of shape about such a thing?
/ZZ’d
(Comments 20 more times about topic whose interest he says he doesn’t understand.)
Jeter is a bad person unless accepts a 3/3 deal.
I won’t subject RAB readers to the pain, but if you do a search for Jeter on Twitter, you can find some of the most moronic comments on both sides of the issue. Some fans don’t understand how the Yanks could ever let Jeter reach free agency. Others will give up on the team if he isn’t resigned. Others think he sucks. It’s stunning.
I cannot wait to hear all the Red Sox fans bitch and whine about this tomorrow…
My Tumblr feed is full of people who are like “OMG OMG OMG OMG OMG OMG OMG OMG WHY HAVEN’T THEY SIGNED JETER AND MO AND ANDY YET??????? WHY ARE THEY FRREE AGENTS OMG.” It’s really obnoxious and they do this every day. I want to point out to them that no one has signed, it’s not like the Yankees and Jeter/Mo/Andy are squabbling or whatever.
At least they’re consistent. When A-Rod opted out, all I heard was how Jeter was above such material, earthly desires.
For 10 years I think 90% of Yankee fans believed Jeter plays for nothing more than the love of the game and free batting gloves.
If the season ended today, the Pinstripe Bowl matchup would be Kansas State (6-3) v. Louisville (5-4).
(falls asleep)
They wouldn’t pick Louisville. They’d take a local team Cuse if they;re still not picked, or Uconn/Rutgers.
I guess it should be “local”. And “they’re” should probably be punctuated correctly as well.
They can’t just pick any team they want, they have to take the #4 team and the #7 team.
It’s an invite.
They have to invite the #4 team and the #7 team. In order to invite a different team, one of those first two automatic bids has to decline first.
Incorrect. They can invite whoever they want that’s left over after the BCS pick and two others.
Ah, I sit corrected.
I’d be pissed if I was Louisville and I got passed over by a lesser ranked team for the conference’s #4 bowl pick (and payout).
Fuck that; I wanna see UConn play in YSIII!
I think it would behoove the Yankees to see that happen as well.
Would Connecticutonians* really drive down to the Bronx to watch their crappy football team play Kansas State in the December cold in a baseball stadium with bad sightlines?
(* Connecticuties? Connecticutoids?)
Nutmeggers.
THAT’S RACIST!!!!
Nope, that’s the suggestion, but they can pick any team they want that’s left and bowl eligible.
Michigan would be a good get for the Pinstripe Bowl. Largest alumni, exciting offense, 6 wins-bowl eligible.
Too bad the Pinstripe Bowl gets the 7th place Big XII team* and the 4th place Big East team.
(*or Notre Dame, should the Big XII not have 7 bowl-eligible members, which might happen when it shrinks to ten members… and provided that ND itself is bowl eligible, which is far from a given)
shows you how closely I have been following the Pinstripe Bowl. lol
Seating is horrible. It’s almost like they didn’t have football in mind when they built this stadium.
But it is perfect for cricket.
Aim for the short porch for an easy 6 runs.
Miss, these seats are atrocious! They’re facing the stage!
Sincerely,
Roland T. Flakfizer
So I just looked up pricing for the Notre Dame / Army game, and the cheapest ticket is $125…
I’m watching from the subway tracks. Who’s in?
Maybe if it was the 1930s. I will just relax and watch college football games that matter…and Nebraska versus Texas A&M.
Speaking of football — the Brit kind — when are the Yankees buying Manchester United to trump the lame-ass buy of Liverpool FC by Henry?
Anyway, best back to test firing my latest missile off Los Angeles. I don’t think anyone has noticed yet.
The Yankees are just going to buy Brazil….not the National Soccer team, but the entire country.
We’ve already begun acquisition of total control of the international Brazil nut market. Once we have them by the nuts, the country is sure to follow.
But they now have a woman president so the Yanks plan backfired right in their nuts.
Great comment.
Interestingly enough, there is baseball in Brazil, but interestingly enough, it’s due to Japanese influence, rather than American influence.
If you were to vote for the Gold Glove, how much consideration would you put into playing time? If a guy was Ozzie Smith for 120 games or another guy was just damn good for 150, who would you give the nod to?
Give it to Derek Jeter of course.
In that scenario, I’d probably vote for Ozzie.
If it was 100 games instead of 120, that’s probably enough to tilt the scale to “the other guy”. It’s a feel issue, I think.
Like Josh Hamilton; I don’t think missing a month is enough to knock him off my MVP ballot. If it was two months? Maybe, yeah.
If Hamilton still had a WAR higher than any other player by one and missed two months I would still probably give it to him. However, if it was close I would give to the guy that actually played more.
Could he really be more valuable than the other guys on the ballot, though, if they played 100% of the season and he only played 66.6% of the season?
66% of one the greats 12 WAR seasons could be better than anyone else in the league if the played a full 162.
… but he didn’t.
True, and he did not miss two months either. I was thinking more in hypothetical terms. However, Hamilton has done enough to win the MVP year, however if he did miss more time then no.
I’d vote for Edinson Volquez.
Mike Green reminds me of Papelbum, still don’t know why…
Except Mike Green isn’t as much of a douche.
Do you have any idea of how Chris Kreider is doing at BC? He started out pretty slow, but seems to be picking it up. I hear that he hasn’t been getting top-line minutes because York likes giving those minutes to seniors and juniors at BC.
Very slow start, but is starting to come around. I have the stats of the major Rangers prospects here: http://www.blueseatblogs.com/prospect-stats
Tuesday night TV sucks hard.
Oh sonofabitch I forgot it was Tuesday.
So watch the Rangers.
I don’t get MSG or whatever channel they’re on. Basic cable fo life son!
Sons of Anarchy?
Glee!
/preparesselfforattack
the good wife is decent enough.
The Canes played in the bowl at Pac Bell a few years ago and it looked so awful. Football is not at all meant to be played in a baseball stadium.
I saw an MLS game between the Kansas City Wizards and New York Red Bulls that was held in Kauffman Stadium. Things were way out of proportion. And it didn’t look pretty.
My pre-game thoughts on the Knicks:
1) The Bucks are playing like shit after a great season last year.
2) Landry Fields was an excellent find. Should be money for us if he isn’t part of a Melo deal.
3) I really enjoy being a Knicks fan.
4) Ronny Turiaf has neat dreads.
3) I really enjoy being a Knicks fan.
–
You’re young. Pain is coming.
As I remind my non-NY Yankee-fan friends who tell me all I know is winning, I remind them that not only was I a Yankee fan during times when they didn’t win, but I have also balanced out my Yankee fandom by also being a NY Jets fan. I know pain.
Let go, my friend, let go.
Wooooooosah.
I spent my formative years during the 01-08 title interregnum. The fact that those teams were usually a three-and-out made it all the more painful. The Knicks have been comically bad, I mean damn they have to revert back to those beast early 90s teams at some point. I think of this year as the starting point for something great.
MLBN has a whole new set of Prime 9s for the offseason, and apparently one of them is “All-Time Pitching Rotations” (it’s not on tonight, but it’s one of the ones they’re planning to do).
Why even show that? We all know it’s the 2009 Red Sox.
It’s a dead tie between the FIVE ACES and H20 for numbers 1-9
Double Roybow!
(barfs)
#1: Boston, 2009
#2: Boston, 2010
#3: Boston, 2004
#4: Boston, 2003
#5: Pawtucket, 2010 (on the strength of C.Kelly alone)
Casey Kelly is so good he elevates rotations at minor league levels he hasn’t even reached!
Don’t state the obvious.
Him pitching in AA made all the AAA pitchers better, because he was pushing them. It’s like how Pedroia made the Sox better during his injury.
Have they updated their show on the nine best starting pitchers of all time yet to insert Casey Kelly at #1?
Also I am so unnecessarily excited for “Top 50 Finishes of 2010″ tomorrow. YAY BASEBALL. I MISS YOU.
I am so sick of people complaining that Boise State should be in the championship. First of all, I definitely think the BCS sucks and there should be a playoff. HOWEVAH, as long as the current system is in place, there’s no place for Boise State over undefeated schools from better conferences.
Yeah the big question is who should go the title game a 1 loss BCS conference team or an undefeated Boise State.
Gut reaction: one loss BCS team.
Completely agree. It’s basically like “seeding” the top two teams. In basketball, seeding is always based on strength of schedule and record against the top teams. Hypothetically, I don’t see how a team that’s like 3-0 or whatever against the top 50 should be ahead of a team that’s like 8-1 or so.
Except TCU absolutely murdered Utah on the road, it’s a shame they’re still No. 3.
OK I am gonna start some controversy. In regards to the Cy Young award being announced I would just like to say that the only pitching statistic that should be followed is… wins. I know the majority of people think era, era+, whip, fip should be evaluated, even a lot of votes come from strikeouts, but I disagree. If I sign a starting pitcher I want them to give me wins, not a low era or high strikeouts. Wins is all that I am concerned with as a GM. Sabathia should win this year because he got the most wins, and I am sure plenty of people will say that Hernandez deserves it but I am not going to decide on the best pitcher based on what he could have done on another team. Hernandez was not the winning pitcher Sabathia was and that enough for me to say Sabathia deserves the award.
Also, I am not a Hernandez hater in the least bit, last year I was extremely mad that he didn’t win the Cy Young. Last year was his year, too bad, this year is CC’s.
/ZZ’d???
(Sorry, ZZ. You’re taking a lot of abuse here. D: )
mbonzo is an alternate personality of mine. ZZ was taking too much heat. Shhhh.
I actually read your post and thought to myself, whats a controversial idea I have about baseball to get this party moving. I don’t know if I actually fully believe the whole wins alone thing but I definitely consider more than most people.
D:
This isn’t really how you feel about it, now is it?
I think I see what you did there and I snickered.
If I sign a starting pitcher I want them to give me wins, not a low era or high strikeouts.
But that’s not entirely up to him, is it?
Neither is the differences between pitching in the AL East and AL West. If we get in to comparing the other stats we have to take into account how much easier it is to pitch in other divisions than the AL East. On top of that, pitchers that have better offenses often pitch in the zone after they get leads which increases the amount of hits and decreases the amount of strikeouts. There is no stat to use that will determine who’s the best pitcher, so I give it to the winningest (word?) pitcher.
There is no stat to use that will determine who’s the best pitcher, so I give it to the winningest (word?) pitcher.
mbonzo, I love you, buddy, but that’s dumb.
Reaaaaaaaaaaaaaaal dumb.
Trust me, if I was a voter this is not how I’d vote. When I look at all the stats and all the different things you have to consider, it becomes impossible to compare two pitchers in two different divisions. I just give up and say, wtf give it to the guy who led his team with the most wins.
When I look at all the stats and all the different things you have to consider, it becomes impossible to compare two pitchers in two different divisions.
No, it doesn’t.
This I am actually not playing devils advocate on, there is no way to know what Hernandez’s ERA would have been in the AL East. Its different competition. You might as well compare pitchers from the NL and the AL.
I agree that there’s no way to know EXACTLY what Hernandez’s ERA would have been if he pitched for the Yankees, or what CC’s ERA would have been if he pitched for the Mariners, or their W/Ls, etc.
But to say that it’s “impossible” to compare two pitchers in different divisions, that’s just batshit insane.
It’s impossible to know some things with absolute certainty, but it’s eminently possible to COMPARE them in a great number of ways and use those comparisons to judge who was better, and even to make several exceedingly intelligent educated guesses about how they would fare in different circumstances to make that judgment more robust and sound.
Neither is the differences between pitching in the AL East and AL West.
Not sure what this has to do with wins.
If we get in to comparing the other stats we have to take into account how much easier it is to pitch in other divisions than the AL East.
Again, I think you’re missing my point. It’s also worth noting that CC is at an advantage by not having to face the Yankees. Another point: per BP, CC faced the fifth highest quality of batters in 2010 (AL only). The pitcher who faced the most quality batters? Felix Hernandez.
On top of that, pitchers that have better offenses often pitch in the zone after they get leads which increases the amount of hits and decreases the amount of strikeouts.
This is a ridiculous assumption.
There is no stat to use that will determine who’s the best pitcher, so I give it to the winningest (word?) pitcher.
You’ve entirely missed the point of what I said. Wins are not up to only the pitcher. Sure, if he pitches well he substantially increases his chances of getting a win, but if his offensive teammates don’t plate enough runs, he’s going to wind up with an ND or a loss.
Another point: per BP, CC faced the fifth highest quality of batters in 2010 (AL only). The pitcher who faced the most quality batters? Felix Hernandez.
That’s a juicy stat right there. Do you have some linkage for us, Mimbro?
Do I ever!
http://tinyurl.com/2d2crf6
(joyed)
“I give because I love.”
Agreed, Id like to see that. Its hard to believe there would be more quality bats in the AL West, and how do they judge quality bats?
Also @ Matt, I really do get your point, it makes sense to me but I am saying that when CC goes on the mound he is not trying to give up the least runs he can, he’s trying to get a win. When a pitcher goal is to get a win, why can’t we use that stat?
Its like saying that if we are giving away an award for hitting homeruns and the guy with the most homeruns happens to get them because he’s in a smaller park, we should give it to the guy who could have hit the most homeruns.
When a pitcher goal is to get a win, why can’t we use that stat?
A batter’s goal is also to get a win. Therefore, we should create a stat called “Batter Wins” that gives wins or losses to batters who either drive in the eventual winning run or fail to drive in the run at the most key potential RBI moment, and we should award the MVP to the batter with the best W/L percentage.
Your 2009 AL MVP is now Melky Cabrera.
You’re welcome.
You win this one… Although these awards ARE given to the players that win over the ones that don’t. Just look at todays gold gloves.
The shittiness of the GG awards is not justification for other awards being equally shitty.
If the Cy Young was created tomorrow (and we didn’t have the historical precedence of people voting for win totals), Felix would be as close to a lock as one could be.
Also @ Matt, I really do get your point, it makes sense to me but I am saying that when CC goes on the mound he is not trying to give up the least runs he can, he’s trying to get a win. When a pitcher goal is to get a win, why can’t we use that stat?
I’d argue he’s trying to do BOTH of those things, as is every pitcher. The fact is that it’s not entirely in his hands. We shouldn’t judge a pitcher by something that isn’t entirely in his control. Do I blame the pizza delivery guy if my pizza tastes shitty? Do I blame the waiter if my steak is over/under cooked? Do I blame the movie theater for a director’s piece of shit? Those people all had a part in my experience, but are not necessarily the most responsible parties. The pitcher is responsible for pitching as well as he can. He can only get a win if/when the offense pulls its weight.
I’m not saying you can’t use that stat, but putting all of your eggs into that basket is just a bad idea. Wins can VAGUELY tell us SOMETHING about how a pitcher performed, but it’s really a better indication of how his TEAM performed.
Its like saying that if we are giving away an award for hitting homeruns and the guy with the most homeruns happens to get them because he’s in a smaller park, we should give it to the guy who could have hit the most homeruns.
The guy hitting those home runs is entirely responsible for hitting his own homers. A pitcher is not entirely responsible for his wins.
In all honesty, I completely agree with this. I do think wins should weigh in on a decision for the Cy Young by whip, era, and era+ should all be right next to it. (All except for FIP which can suck it)
2010 should go to Hernandez, but I want CC to win it.
I do think wins should weigh in on a decision for the Cy Young by whip, era, and era+ should all be right next to it. (All except for FIP which can suck it)
Analogy time.
FIP : Pitcher Wins :: Magnetic resonance imaging : drilling holes in your patient’s head to let the evil spirits out
http://riveraveblues.com/2010/.....nt-1301597
GMTA
(All except for FIP which can suck it)
Gas Station Employee: I’m starting to pick up your sarcasm.
Richard: I would hope so ’cause I’m laying it on pretty thick.
I assure you, none of this is a typo.
Felix Hernandez started 7 games against the AL East in 2010. His numbers?
5-1 (your favorite “stat”!), 57 1/3 IP, 36 H, 4 ER, 15 BB, 58 K
For those scoring at home, that’s a 0.63 ERA, 0.89 WHIP, a 9.1 K/9, and 3.87 K/BB.
And the one loss he got was a 1-0 loss against the Blue Jays, not even kidding.
You’re just trying to create trouble!
Maybe
Many people will present better arguments than me, but my question is simply this: The Cy Young is supposedly awarded to the best pitcher (not most valuable.) How can you possibly say CC was a better pitcher than Felix?
If you could pick a team for 2010 based on the stats from this year I’d pick CC over Felix because he’d give me 8 more wins.
… I’d pick CC over Felix because he’d give me 8 more wins.
Sabathia AND HIS 24 OTHER TEAMMATES give you the eight more wins. If you’d have put Felix on the Yanks this year, he probably would have won 24-25 games.
This is clearly a troll trying to be the next Alex Gonzalez.
Yes, as I’ve said before, if I am awarding someone for being the best pitcher I am not gonna give them the award based on what they could have done with a better offense.
Instead, you’re going to give them the award based on how good or how bad the offense they already have actually is.
Look at the AL wins leaderboard. Names like Cahill, Hughes, Pavano, E. Santana, Cecil, G. Gonzalez, and Garza are all ahead of Felix. Do you think any of them are better than he is, or even close to being in his league? I think it’s definitely fair to say they aren’t.
None of them are close except for Pavano.
Pavano is close to being in Hernández’s league? You’re kidding, right?
Yup. Unless there is a competition for who I’d least want the Yankees to play against.
If you could pick a team for 2010 based on the stats from this year I’d pick CC over Felix because he’d give me 8 more wins.
If you could pick a team for 2010 based on the stats from this year, you’d have to be talking about tennis or golf BECAUSE IT’S FUCKING IMPOSSIBLE FOR A BASEBALL PLAYER TO ACCUMULATE A STAT LIKE WINS AND LOSSES WITHOUT THE HELP OF HIS TEAMMATES.
Why should the Cy Young be determined by something (offense) that he has no control over and the defense behind which he also has no control over?
Batshit insane.
Excellent.
Pete: Wait a minute. Who elected you leader of this outfit?
Ulysses Everett McGill: Well Pete, I figured it should be the one with the capacity for abstract thought.
It makes sense to me
I have no idea where that clip is from, but it’s all the better cause that’s the guy who plays Billy Martin in the Bronx is Burning.
It’s from “O Brother, Where Art Thou?”
yup–John Turturro also played the Jesus from Big Lebowski.
John Turturro also uttered this line on film.
Brain Donors FTW
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VIFnGH0HeYk (safe)
Kinda sad to see John Turturro’s career boiled down to “the guy who plays Billy Martin in the Bronx is Burning.”
You lost me at “wins is all that I am concerned with.”
Brian Boyle is awesome. That is all.
Damn.
http://brianboyle.wordpress.com/
Six goals already for a player who had four in 71 games last season? Big-time regression coming soon…
*Seven goals, not six
Ok quick poll..
And I fully admit that I’m whiny,indecisive and haaaaaate making trades.
I was offered Arian Foster for Steven Johnson, Michael Vick, )who’s on my bench) and Matt Forte. I’m fine with losing Vick and Forte but it’s Johnson I’m waffling over. Is he for real? I’m leaning towards no. He’s had two awesome games and three so-so games where he”s happened to catch a TD pass. Roscoe Parrish is now out for the season and it;s due to get cold and shitty out in B-lo. I’m thinking this is a pretty good opportunity to sell high.
Put it this way: if I were you, I’d be worried he’s gonna pull the offer off the table.
What he said.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lmUZGdi7Ty4 (safe)
At first I had no idea who Steven Johnson was, but that’s because we Bills fans know him as Stevie. He is legit; however, the Bills are probably going to have to start relying on the run more with the weather worsening. Even most of their remaining road games are in cold climates. Obviously that should hurt Johnson’s stock.
You’re a Bills fan?
You poor, pathetic bastard. I weep for you. Chin up, friendo. Keep fighting the good fight.
DON’T GO INTO THE LIGHT!!!
hahaha, thanks.
The Bills haven’t made the playoffs since 2000. I was 12 years old then. They’re truly a storied franchise.
I meant 1999. But the game itself was played in January 2000. Close enough.
Let’s just hope that Canada doesn’t steal your franchise and rename them “The Argo2Nauts”.
Hey, I know most people are against it and it’s been proven to be ineffective, but when I’m sick, I like to turn to leeching.
I agree with you here. Leeching is very underrated, don’t know it until you try it. If it was good enough for George Washington it’s good enough for me.
The Bucks are due for a major regression with their FG percentage. Damn, I’ve never seen something this close to perfection like ever.
When you have zero defense to speak of, shit happens.
They have to stop trying for the 3 pointer. It’ll just lead to a shitton of turnovers.
Welcome to the 2010-2011 New York Knicks Experience. It’s light years better than anything in the past five years, and still a lot better than anything in the past nine, but there’s a looooooooong way to go.
I’m willing to wait it out. This will be a championship caliber team by the time I graduate high school.
Oh yeah, there’s no doubt it’s worth waiting out. Just don’t get your hopes up for this year. I’d be thrilled with a 7 or 8 seed and getting only 1 win in the playoff round (it’d be the first in ten years!)
/thoughtyouweretalkingaboutfootball
http://twitter.com/Dlauraposada
Jorge’s wife says he will DH next year.
Could mean anything, but I will assume full time.
As my friends you should be the first to know, yes Jorge will be the DH next year.
Said that on her facebook.
I’m so disappointed that @Dlauraposada doesn’t participate in #tittytuesday.
Jorge said that is not true.
PICS OR IT DIDN’T HAPPEN
http://manhattaninfidel.com/__.....987678.jpg
Well played.
The part about being the full time DH or Laura Posada participating in #tittytuesday?
The real question is: Does she participate in #tacotuesday?
/Griese’d
Wait a second…nobody is forcing me to watch this Knicks game.
[improves life]
I find it humorous and entertaining at this point.
When was the last time the Knicks hit a 3? Has to be back in Chicago lol.
Also, why is it that the Bucks players can force turnovers and make it hard for the Knicks to shoot and pass, but the Knicks just let the Bucks walk right to the basket or let them shoot from wherever behind the arc?
I mean, do the Knicks know what defense is? They seem kinda stupid…
The defense went to shit. It happens, I guess. D’Antoni must be ready to chop some heads off.
Billie Walker is so stupid…so are his teammates. Your 0-9 for 3s, you hit like 2 of 20 the game before…here’s an idea: stop shooting 3s!
I mean it’s kinda obvious…
So they’re never going to hit a thee again?
They should probably stop wasting those possessions considering it’s not working. WHen they’re back in the game, then they can try the 3s again.
Weren’t the Knicks like 100-for-20 on threes just a few nights ago?
Clearly, they’ve missed a bunch tonight, so they should just stop shooting altogether.
They should stop shooting them at the moment, because it’s not working and it’s a waste of possessions.
And yet it can start working again at any moment.
You don’t abandon your entire offense just because it’s not working at max efficiency this very second.
I never said to abandon the entire offense. Just drive at the basket and stop relying on the 3s.
The point of the offense is to create open looks for three pointers. Threes are worth more than two.
Three points are harder to get than 2s. It’s easier to dunk, lay up, or draw fouls.
The opposing defense has something to say about that.
The bucks just can’t miss a field goal. The Knicks are getting their asses handed to them. The Nets game going on is much more interesting.
Why the hell is Gallo on the bench?
Also, Knicks on the bench need to sit their asses down. You’re down by 23 and a guy dunks so you freak out like it’s so amazing? Seriously, wait until your actually in the game and playing like professionals before you get cocky.
I like emotion, but it seemed a little inapprpriate.
You know what I don’t get? Is why Gallinari won’t get a haircut. I mean does he not realize how much better looking he is with it nice and short?
It’s so obvious, I don’t get why he’s so dumb about it.
I thought this was one of the more interesting things I read today:
“The book itself was a bit of a caricature, not just to me, but to many of the people involved,” DePodesta said.
In fact, the movie based on the book, starring Brad Pitt as Beane, changed the name of its DePodesta character at his request.
“Moneyball has taken on a lot of connotations that weren’t intended,” DePodesta continued. “Moneyball doesn’t have anything to do with on-base percentage or statistics. It’s a constant investigation of stagnant systems, to see if you can find value where it isn’t readily apparent. It can be anything. At the time, it happened to be using statistics to make us better decisions. That’s not always the case. There are new frontiers we need to conquer.”
In a conference call Tuesday afternoon, DePodesta was guarded with regards to what those frontiers are, just as he was when asked about his 20-month stint as general manager of the Dodgers in 2004 and 2005. (“I’m not at liberty to talk about my dealings with the Dodgers,” he said, hinting at a nondisclosure agreement with his former club.)
“Look at how we develop players and people to get the most out of someone’s talent,” he said. “That untapped. It’s an area where there a lot of opportunity.”
http://proxy.espn.go.com/blog/.....-moneyball
One of the main ‘characters’ of Moneyball thought that the book itself, not just the misunderstood regurgitation of it from most media types, was an oversimplified caricature of what it was they were actually doing in Oakland way back then. So much so, that he insisted his name not be used in the Moneyball movie.
Distancing himself from a Hollywood movie doesn’t surprise me, but I didn’t know he thought so little of the book itself.
I get the impression that it’s not the book itself he didn’t like but rather how everyone interpreted the book.
Bingo. And he distanced himself from the movie because they cast Jonah Hill to play him, not because of a poor opinion of the book. In fact, I dont see any criticism of the book there.
“The book itself was a bit of a caricature, not just to me, but to many of the people involved,” DePodesta said.
A bit of a caricature is not exactly scathing criticism. I think you are looking to make something bigger here than there is.
I think you’re reading things into my intentions that aren’t there. Again, I suggest reading the piece.
I read it twice. Please stop telling me to read it. Im not sure why my conclusion is so untenable that you cant fathom that I have read the article and reached a different result than you did.
I don’t know how anyone could read this sentence-
“The book itself was a bit of a caricature, not just to me, but to many of the people involved,” DePodesta said.
. . and think he had little to no problem with the book. Further, he wanted his name disassociated from the movie version.
As I said before, he disassociated himself due to a casting decision. This is well documented. And you are right, he did find it to be “a bit” of a caricature. There is a large gulf between that and thinking so little of the book or not liking the book.
Actually, not a casting decision, a characterization decision:
“Believing the script’s image of him was inaccurate and unable to convince the filmmakers to alter the depiction, DePodesta requested his name be removed from the character.”
No, that’s what I always thought. Read the piece, he doesn’t like the book itself.
He said the Moneyball painted them as relying heavily on statistical analysis to find undervalued assets. But that’s not what they were doing. They were looking everywhere. Scouting, player development, stats. Anything that they felt was underutilized and/or could be done better, they tried to improve upon.
Again “It’s a constant investigation of stagnant systems”
No, he said that Moneyball has taken on those connotations. That specifically suggests that the book itself doesnt actually say that.
Mo, please read the piece.
I read the piece earlier, and I read it again before commenting. Please dont patronize me. I dont see what you see. He doesnt say Moneyball had a lot of errors or a mistaken perception of what they were doing. He says it has “taken on” those connotations. He seems to be saying what many of us have been saying for a long time: Moneyball isnt about statistics, its about uncovering and exploiting inefficiencies.
Moneyball isnt about statistics, its about uncovering and exploiting inefficiencies.
We can agree on that.
I’m going to repeat this, because it bears repeating and NO ONE EVER FUCKING GETS IT:
“Moneyball has taken on a lot of connotations that weren’t intended,” DePodesta continued. “Moneyball doesn’t have anything to do with on-base percentage or statistics. It’s a constant investigation of stagnant systems, to see if you can find value where it isn’t readily apparent. It can be anything. At the time, it happened to be using statistics to make us better decisions. That’s not always the case. There are new frontiers we need to conquer.”
Those serial misunderstandings of the fundamental concepts of the book are usually parroted by people who haven’t read it and have no interest in reading it precisely because of what they perceive it to be.
I assume that Joe Morgan’s contract wasn’t renewed because he asked ESPN for more free time to direct his own movie, The Moneyball Myth: Why On Base Percentage and Statistics Are Overrated
Joe Morgan’s an idiot.
The sky is blue.
…but he was a great player with a great on-base percentage and other great statistics that he doesn’t seem to understand, but generated at a fantastic rate.
I think he understands that getting on base is great, when he would talk about slumps he’d talk about how he would work hard to get on base even if he wasn’t hitting and how valuable a skill that is.
I think that when you turn it into a stat and talk about on-base percentage he feels threatened and is worried that it might diminish him and others. Which is wrong, of course, but I understand his point of view even if it is extremely aggravating.
I understand his point of view even if it is extremely aggravating.
He’s old. Old people hate new things.
His whole thesis was “because they don’t put OBP on the scoreboard”
/Francoeur’d
I like that Michael Kay uses “Moneyball” to mean “a style of baseball with little bunting or basestealing”.
Do the Knicks know that they should block shots and pass the ball and stuff?
If the Knicks play only 10-12 games like this all year, I’ll be very happy. I’m not sure people realize these recent Knicks have had weeks like this. Many times. Many, many times.
I was thinking last game how they have competed in every game so far this season and havn’t gotten blown out yet.
Also, pretty sure the entire second half of last season was like this. lol
I thought the Knicks were playing the Bucks not the Lakers?
So in WS news, something funny to share…I did not hear a single person mention the WS at all. Either during or after. Nothing. I wonder how the ratings were.
Apparently, the worst ever.
/Notevenjoking’d
So after Ochocinco made me lose both of fantasy games yesterday I dropped him without even trying to trade him. He has been disgusting to watch.
My guess: the Bengals will be doing the exact same thing before the year is over.
How many job openings will be available this January?
Cowboys
Vikings
Jaguars
Bengals
Bears
Panthers
Broncos
Texans
Chargers
49ers
Cardinals
Browns
Are any of the coaches helming those teams “safe”? I’d say not. This could be a massive influx of new blood.
The only one I think is “safe” is Whisenhunt. I also think Mangini’s pretty close. I mean, if they didn’t fire him after last year, there doesn’t seem to be a reason to fire him now (of course this could change if they finish with 5 or less wins.) But yeah, the main point stands.
And of course, by “massive influx of new blood,” I assume you mean “mediocre or worse old white guys who have failed in the past somewhere else.”
Oh, but of course. I expect at least three or four of those job openings to be filled by guys who were fired from one of those other job openings (I’m looking at you, John Fox.)
How Chan Gailey got a job has got to be very close to the top of the list of “The Most Baffling Sports Decisions of 2010.”
Haven’t heard anyone talk about it but T.O. has proven himself to be 10 times the player that Ocho is. Maybe they’ll discuss that on their show.
God Philly fans are pissing me off. I was discussing possible lee deals on MLBtraderumors and these phillies fans seem convinced that Lee will accept a lesser deal because he loves philly and wants to pitch with halladay cuz the place is soo great. They even started saying guys like Halladay and Oswalt who came over through trades did so because they wanted to be phillies and loved the place. Apparently to them Free Agents who sign with their team is NEVER about the money but because they do it cuz they love the team/city/fans…WTF this is a borderline delusional view of their team and club. i mean they havea great club but not enough to say people come here for the love not money…And it’s not like one guy saying it but a bunch of philly fans telling me this…
MLBTR is good for info. The comment section is a cesspool, though.
yea i’ll remember that next time.
MLBTR + comments = Waste of time.
Yeah. Great site, but the comments are LoHudian.
I also heard that Phillies fans are thinking that Marcus Thames might replace Werth. Poor bastards, don’t they realize there is no DH in the NL? Love Marcus, but the farther away from a glove he is the better.
RAB’s gone loco today. Time to do something Cashninja, you’re fans are going insane,
I just read Lee bought a house in Little Rock, AR
Little Rock to New York~1200 miles
Little Rock to Arlington 340 miles
Am I reading too much into this?
Lee was also born and raised in Little Rock, so…yes
Link?
And yes, you are reading too much into it. Maybe it’s an offseason home or a house for the mistress or something like that.
Old news. I remember reading about that at the beginning of the ALCS.
That’s his home. Just as Texas is Andy Pettitte’s home state, yet he pitches in NY. Last I checked, Little Rock, AR does not have a MLB team, so nothing to worry about.
http://www.nytimes.com/2010/11.....f=baseball
Jeter built himself a palace in Tampa, which, as I’m sure you’re aware, is not close to New York.
Read the article, Kepner makes an interesting comparison between Lee and Sabathia when he signed
Use the reply button.
Please use the reply button. It makes the conversation easier to follow. Thanks in advance.
Jeter is single. Plus Sabathia I believe never moved into the house in the Bay area. Kepner says Lee plans on moving in this off season
Jeter ain’t single. Minka’s got her hooks into him real good.
Childless, then.
all your children here in their rags of light or how old jews just fucking rule
i ache in the places where i used to play
Red Sox convinced Salty can start at catcher? Varitek may sub in for lefties?
Ar ethey expecting Casey Kelly to go and get a 50 WAR or something? If they pass Beltre and VMart subbing with sub .700 OPS player I would be extremely happy.
The Rays even without Crawford and Soriano still look scary Hellickson, Moore and Jennings in particular in talent that could improve them.
I don’t get that club. They’ve said their top priority is a 3rd basemen, meanwhile who the hell is gonna start catching? Salty is a poor catcher and in his best year hitting, his first, he had a .732 OPS. He hit .248 in AAA this year, maybe they think that he is gaining some power. It just seems insane to me that 3rd base is their priority while they have Youkilis on the team who can handle that, and their catchers are a mess.
Salty had a case of the yips. I’m not familiar with any player who fully recovered from it.
It will resurface again, hopefully during a critcal moment during a critical game against the Yankees.
That was good and all, real good actually, but this time let’s try it with your mouth more open.