Brewers Acquire Zack Greinke

Open Thread: Andy Phillips
Mailbag: The Triple-A Scranton Roster
(AP Photo/Ed Zurga)

(Update, 10:31am): Turns out the Royals are getting a player to be named later, not Jeffress. The bigger news is that the Royals had a trade worked out with the Nationals, but Greinke told them he wouldn’t waive his no-trade clause to go there, presumably because they aren’t a contender. Jon Heyman says Greinke also told the KC braintrust that he wouldn’t mind coming to New York, but it was his family members that had reservations. A deal was never close with the Yankees anyway.

(Original Post, 9:02am): Is this a crazy offseason or what? Late last night a blog by the name of Bernie’s Crew reported that the Royals and Brewers had agreed to a trade involving former AL Cy Young Award winner Zack Greinke, but everyone was understandably skeptical. When I woke up this morning, Buster Olney had already confirmed it, so Greinke is in fact joining the Brewers. Kansas City will receive SS Alcides Escober, CF Lorenzo Cain, and pitching prospects Jeremy Jeffress and Jake Odorizzi. Milwaukee will reportedly receive Yuniesky Betancourt and $2M as well.

Before we get into the nuts and bolts of the trade, I want to congratulate Jim Breen at Bernie’s Crew for getting the scoop. Independent bloggers get written off all the time because some schmucks out there throw out bad information as an attention grab, and it reflects poorly on all of us. Breen’s scoop gives him some big time credibility, and I’m genuinely happy for him. This blogging stuff ain’t easy if you want to be taken even remotely seriously.

As for the actual move, it really puts the Brewers right in the mix of NL Central contention. They picked up Shaun Marcum from the Blue Jays earlier this year and just added a bonafide number one guy that they run out there every five days. Yovani Gallardo drops back into the number two spot, a job he’s overqualified for, and Randy Wolf becomes one of the better fourth starters in the game. They’ll have that rotation for the next two years (before Greinke hits free agency), but I suspect they’ll make some moves to really go all-in this season before Prince Fielder becomes a free agent next offseason.

Kansas City gets a young everyday shortstop and centerfield with five years of team control left each, plus one huge power arm in Jeffress (legitimately can touch 100, especially in relief) and one of the game’s better pitching prospects in Odorizzi. Their farm system was the best in the game before the trade, but it was lacking when it came to up-the-middle players close to the big leagues. Escobar and Cain help correct that, and dumping the Yuni-Bomber is a net positive as well.

The Yankees were never really a serious contender for Greinke’s services, even after Cliff Lee headed to the Phillies. They were concerned about his ability to handle New York, and while I don’t necessarily buy those concerns, the team had them and acted appropriately. I’m not sure the Yanks could have matched that package anyway since they don’t have a big league ready shortstop to send to the Royals (sorry, Eduardo Nunez fans). If the Yanks weren’t going to get Greinke, the next best thing would be for him go to the National League, and that’s what happened.

I was really hoping that Greinke would get traded to a big market just so he could put this “can’t handle the pressure” stuff to bed, so now I’ll hope for the Brewers to make it to the postseason and for Greinke to wreck the Phillies. Twice.

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Open Thread: Andy Phillips
Mailbag: The Triple-A Scranton Roster
  • Brian in NH

    Greinke can’t handle the pressure cooker that is Milwaukee because of his Social Anxiety Disorder. He’ll clearly be a bust

    • Mark

      are you a psychologist or mental health expert or just being sarcastic??

      • pete

        the latter, I think

      • Poopy Pants

        Another RAB poster with no sense of sarcasm. Imagine that.

        • Mark

          or just sick of people pretending to be experts on social anxiety disorder, my bad!!

        • pete

          you know, for someone who apparently despises RAB, you sure spend a lot of time here

          • esteban

            Maybe Mr. Pants is masochistic?

            • Jimmy McNulty

              Or, or…maybe he likes the main blog but hates the groupthink and annoying inside jokes on the comments section. Just a thought.

              • Esteban

                Uhh, then why read the comments?

        • http://youcantpredictbaseball.wordpress.com bexarama

          Shouldn’t you be imitating me on NoMaas or something?

          • Poopy Pants

            I never have. Being 100% truthful.

          • Jimmy McNulty

            That’s awfully vein of you.

            • Esteban

              Have you ever seen the comments at NoMaas? They constantly impersonate the RAB writers and some commenters. Why, nobody knows.

    • http://www.twitter.com/ngoral Jake LaMotta’s Left Hook

      Let’s hope he doesn’t become an alcoholic then!

  • Brian

    Don’t know why, but this pissed me off.

  • http://twitter.com/AndrewLeighNYC Andrew

    Is Escobar going to be any good? He never hit for any pop or walked much in the minors, and he stopped stealing bases once he got to the big leagues, while also still not getting on base or hitting more than singles. Is defense, cheapness and the potential that he might just slap his way to a respectable batting average enough to make him (plus a lot of other prospects, of course) worth Greinke? Dicey.

    • pete

      Well, he’s supposed to be brilliant defensively, and he’s quite cheap. He’s more Andrus than Castro, but I’d still be perfectly comfortable with a guy like that locking down the most important defensive position on the field long-term.

      • http://twitter.com/AndrewLeighNYC Andrew

        That’s true, and he’s a major improvement over Betancourt in terms of D, cost and not being a rotting corpse in general. If SS was what the Royals were adamant about improving, then Escobar makes sense. It just feels like a “quantity over quality” move, although I know Odorizzi is a big prospect even if he’s very far away from the majors. But it does make sense in terms of the Royals’ needs, so I can’t knock it too much.

        • pete

          Also, with Hosmer and Moustakas near the majors, they probably aren’t that concerned about Escobar’s lack of power

          • YankeesJunkie

            Yeah, but they should be worried about his lack of hitting abilities in general.

            • pete

              Meh, there are a lot of guys in that organization who can hit well. Getting strong defenders at SS and CF to sit at the bottom of the order isn’t that big a deal.

              • YankeesJunkie

                That is true but in trading a franchise player it would be nice to see that everyday shortstop be capable of holding his own in the batter’s box. If not then there really is no difference between him and Pena.

                • pete

                  I think you’ll see in the coming years that there is a pretty enormous difference between Escobar and Pena.

                  And how many SSs are there out there who can hold their own in the batter’s box? SS is a crazily light position offensively right now. Jeter’s offense last year was enough to make him one of the most valuable SSs in baseball despite being below average defensively.

                • Ted Nelson

                  Who knows how things will play out, but a big difference between Escobar and Pena is that Escobar actually started hitting in the high minors. As a result his OPS was 100 points higher in both AA and AAA. On the other hand, Escobar’s MiLB numbers look only marginally better than Eduardo Nunez’s.

  • Dave

    Meh. What can ya do? You know the pricetag for the Yanks would’ve been considerably higher than what the Brewers are giving up. Royals probably would have insisted on Montero AND Banuelos plus another pitcher.

    Dayton Moore would get crucified if he made a deal in which the Yankees came out looking like they got the better end of it.

    • YankeesJunkie

      You would think that the deal would have been something like Montero, Banuelos, Adams/Nunez, and Ramirez/Marshall.

      • Dave

        Yeah, sounds about right. Not worth it for someone who would bolt after 2 yrs.

        • CP

          Why would he bolt after 2 years?

          • Dave

            Nostradamus told me he would. He didn’t illuminate me with reasoning.

      • Ted Nelson

        That seems to easily trump the Brewers’ deal IMO. The Brewers did not send a prospect in the neighborhood of Montero. Nunez’s MiLB hitting was only marginally worse than Escobar’s, and he seemed to figure out his error problem in 2010. And Escobar was the “prize” of that package. Giving them Montero (plus Banuelos, plus a just sub-Escobar level IF, plus a great young arm) would have just crushed the Brewers’ package talent wise to me.

        • pete

          the Royals have no use for Montero unless they truly believe he can be an everyday catcher.

          • Ted Nelson

            I know what you’re saying, but I think a 67 win team towards the bottom of the league in runs would have a use for the best hitting prospect in baseball.

            Seeing as Wil Myers defense doesn’t seem much better than Jesus’ they can use one behind the plate and one at DH or a corner OF spot.

            Plus Eric Hosmer is just a prospect, so there’s no guarantee the guy shines in the bigs. (Nor is there with Montero, of course.)

        • Accent Shallow

          Escobar is supposedly an elite defender with great range. I don’t think anyone has that opinion of Nunez.

          • Ted Nelson

            That’s in part because Nunez has been very error prone in the minors. He’s regularly committed over 30 errors per season. Mostly just laziness and mental errors from what I’ve read. In 2010, though, he committed only 16 errors between AAA and the bigs.

            The opinion of Nunez actually is that he has good range and an excellent throwing arm. It was the errors that brought down his projections as a defender. One season doesn’t mean he’s over them, but it’s an encouraging sign.

            The facts on Escobar are that he’s also a bit error prone (regularly 20 errors per season and 40 one season) and his defense as a rookie was not elite. Good, but not elite. Not to say that can’t improve with time.

            Just in terms of their prospects–obviously 2 guys could have identical MiLB stats and develop differently–Escobar does not look a ton better than Nunez. Better, sure, but not a ton better. Maybe that’s the difference between back-up and solid starter, but maybe it’s the difference between weak starter and pretty weak starter.

  • pete

    As much as I would have loved to get Greinke, the baseball fan in me just loves this trade. People always talk about “winning” trades, but that’s not really the point. Great trades improve both teams, and this is one of those trades.

  • YankeesJunkie

    Honestly Dayton Moore found a way too fuck up a trade package for Greinke. Escobar so far in his couple seasons in the majors has shown zero capability to hit for power and even the 2011 Bill James projection has him wOBA only .300. Cain has put up some really solid numbers in the minors, but there is no power potential there as well. Jeffress seams to be a reliever and Odorizzi has put up some really good numbers, but he has not gone past A ball yet. Considering you are giving up Greinke you would think that there would be some better upside in the majors or close it.

    • camilo Gerardo

      someone has to lose, haha

  • pete

    I would absolutely love it if the Brewers beat the Phillies this year.

    • YankeesJunkie

      The Brewers have a really nice top of the rotation with Greinke, Gallardo, and Marcum does not have the name power as the Phillies, but it is really solid.

      • Mattchu12

        When you consider that Greinke and Marcum might get even better pitching in the NL, I like their rotation a lot. A Braun-Fielder-Hart (not in that order, just saying) middle of the lineup will help them win a lot of games I suspect.

        • pete

          Not to mention one of the more underrated players in baseball in Rickie Weeks

    • http://www.bronxbombersreport.com Craig

      Be careful what you wish for. The Phillies are going to need to beat the Red Sox.

      • pete

        I’m not afraid of the Sox. At all. Their rotation is solid, their lineup is solid. Neither is anything more than that.

  • Mike

    I was hopeful the Yanks would step up and take a chance. I don’t know what the Royals look for in players (obviously something other than the rest of the league) but they didn’t get much for him. Yanks should have gotten creative and traded for Greinke then flip him to Seattle for Felix (crazy wishful thinking).

    • pete

      Felix will not be traded. Period.

      The package for Felix Hernandez wouldn’t be Greinke. It’d be more along the lines of Greinke, Hughes, Cano, Montero, and Banuelos, plus salary relief for Greinke. Not happening.

      • Ted Nelson

        Plus Babe Ruth, Ty Cobb, Barry Bonds, and the first born son of everyone in America… get real. A top of the rotation starter, a young 2/3 starters, an MVP candidate 2B, the best hitting prospect in baseball, and an excellent young LHP prospect??????????????????? On what planet would it take all that to acquire any player?

        Felix was worth 6.2 wins last season. Cano alone was worth 6.4 wins. Greinke was worth 5.2. Hughes 2.4. You’ve more than doubled Felix’s production in proven major league talent, plus included the best hitting prospect in baseball and a strong lefty pitching prospect. Even if those guys don’t come close to their potential you’re probably talking at least 4 or 5 wins combined. If they do reach their potential you’re talking 10, 12 wins combined. So… 16-24 wins for 6.2 wins? That sounds like a reasonable deal to you?

        • pete

          Of course it’s not a reasonable deal. A reasonable deal would probably be more along the lines of Hughes, Montero, Banuelos, and Nunez. But why would the Ms take that deal? There’s no chance that they can field a contending team in the time they’d have before Hughes and Cano get too expensive.

          My point was that Felix is going absolutely nowhere, because the only way it would make sense for the M’s to trade him would be if they got a deal that no GM would ever make, because it would utterly decimate the team.

          • Ted Nelson

            The Ms aren’t that small market a team. They’re actually rather big spenders. A team that will spend $100 mill annually.

            They pay Ichiro $17 mill per, and have gone out and signed fairly big FAs like Beltre, Sexton, Carlos Silva, Figgins in the past.

            You’re not trading Cano is your new deal, and Hughes is pretty unlikely to be a really elite starter. Probably more like a $10-12 mill per guy at best. They’ve acquired guys like Silva, Bedard, and Lee in that range.

            I also doubt Felix will be traded. But it’s not going to take 2 ML stars, a solid young starter, and 2 top prospects to get him. At some point there could be a deal where the Mariners feel it improves their team and another team wants Felix enough to do it. It especially seems unlikely for the Yankees after the Ms apparently valued Smoak over Jesus, but if the Ms were higher on Jesus than the Yankees you never know.

            • Ted Nelson

              “They’ve acquired guys like Silva, Bedard, and Lee in that range.”

              Not comparing Hughes or Silva to Cliff Lee, just talking money. Lee only made $9 mill last season.

              • Jimmy McNulty

                They signed Chone Figgins, Adrian Beltre, and Ichiro! to rather big contracts too. They’re not broke. Stop acting as if they are.

                • Ted Nelson

                  Um….. I made that exact same point.

      • Jimmy McNulty

        See this is a legit complaint that Poopy Pants has, the annoying trade proposals have swung the other way. Here’s a legitimate package for Felix: Montero, Romine, Nunez, Adams or Joesph, and all of the Killer Bs. Three top 100 pitching prospects, the best hitting prospect in baseball, and a good young catcher (seeing as how they just signed that Olivio they’ll likely need one). That’s a legitimately great haul for a legitimately great pitcher. I would do that deal in a heartbeat and I’d imagine that most Ms fans would be happy with that haul after a year or two.

        • Ted Nelson

          How many trades have ever involved 7 of the top 10 or so prospects from a top 10 farm system?

          In order to say what a legitimate package is you have to actually establish what the market value for a player like Felix is with comparable deals. You can’t just throw out deals and say: I’m right because I’m right.

          Felix is worth maybe 7 wins a year. Even if those 7 guys average only 1 win per year the Yankees have given up as much as they got. Worst case you’ve just given up 3/5 a starting rotation, 100% a middle infield, a starting C, and an amazing hitter for one pitcher… So, no, that is not a reasonable package.

  • http://www.theyankeeu.com/author/steve-s/ Nostra-Artist

    I’m constantly amazed at people who think players are spreadsheets and not human beings, especially after watching Javier Vazquez this past season. The GM himself was quoted as being wrong about being too dismissive of these things when it came to Javy in an interview after the season. It’s not necessarily a New York thing, players can play in relative anonymity across town in Flushing. But there’s added pressure playing for the Yankees, where expectations are high, constant and never ending. Some players simply don’t respond well to that. I know Ed Whitson was a long time ago, but there have been others since then who were never comfortable here, and their performance suffered. Randy Johnson was a recent one in that category.

    • http://www.theyankeeu.com/author/steve-s/ Nostra-Artist

      BTW-Mike, I’m a big fan of your posts and tweets, which are consistently funny. We just disagree on this.

    • pete

      Javier Vazquez lost 3+ mph on his fastball this year. I’d be willing to bet that that had a lot more to do with his suckitude this year than anything else. Not a good comparison to Greinke at all.

      Randy Johnson came here and pitched well his first year, shitty his second. He was 41 and 42 those years. Also not a good comparison to Greinke.

      • Big Juan

        This. Greinke is a much better pitcher than Vazquez period, and he’s better now than Johnson was when he came to New York.

      • http://www.theyankeeu.com/author/steve-s/ Nostra-Artist

        Why was his fastball down? He wasn’t hurt. If you’ve ever pitched, you’d know pitchers lose velocity and movement when they’re trying too hard, coaches always preach throwing the ball free and easy. Keep an eye on Javy finding that lost velocity in FLA next year. Unit was coming off a season where he received Cy Young consideration, and didn’t resemble that pitcher in his 2 years as a Yank.

        • http://www.riveraveblues.com Mike Axisa

          Nor did he after leaving the Yankees, how easily we forget that. A 40+ year old pitcher move from the NL West to the AL East losing effectiveness is not exactly a mystery.

        • pete

          I dunno…I pitched in HS and when I tried too hard I would throw harder, just with less command. Also, was Javy trying too hard on every single pitch, all year? You’d think he’d crack 93-94 at least a couple times last year if he was still capable of it, no?

          I think the real answer is that even though Javy was “only” 34 last year, he’d been throwing about 200 innings a year for twelve seasons, plus 500 innings in the minors. He’s generously listed at 6’2″, which isn’t particularly tall for a pitcher either, and I think that more than anything, all of those miles on his arm caught up to him last year. Maybe I’m wrong, and maybe he’ll go out and dominate next year, but I doubt it. I think he’s a back-of-the-rotation starter in the NL for good, now.

          Also, the NY thing doesn’t really hold up because Javy was terrific in the first half of 2004 before he got hurt.

          • Jimmy McNulty

            HS pitchers are very different from Major Leaguers who have appeared in an All Star Game.

        • CP

          Well, Javy lost some velocity from 2008 to 2009, and then more from 2009 to 2010. Was he anticipating the move to the Yankees and prematurely losing velocity in 2009?

        • Ted Nelson

          You seem to forget that Javy did pitch well his first half season as a Yankee. No one is saying baseball players aren’t human. Just that guys who have won Cy Youngs and World Series elsewhere (RJ) are EXTREMELY unlikely to suddenly meltdown from a marginal increase in pressure. When they are also in their 40s, it is more reasonable to ascribe their fall off to age.

          Same with Pavano and injuries. Same with Javy. Pressure might have something to do with it, but it’s one of many possible explanations and ofter not nearly as likely as others.

        • BklynJT

          People are too dogmatic on this issue; just respect each others opinions an move on.

    • http://www.riveraveblues.com Mike Axisa

      I’m not sure how you can question RJ’s ability to handle pressure and expectations and all that. Did you see the career he had? He was also in his 40’s when he came to NY. His first year was good, his second wasn’t mostly because he was hurt. Bad example.

      Also, Ed Whitson was a league average pitcher (101 ERA+) before he ever got to NY. People need to stop acting like this guy was an ace that lost it because of the pressure.

      It’s a convenient narrative, but I don’t buy into it. Agree to disagree.

  • Mark B.

    Including Jeffress in the deal is huge gamble for KC. He’s been caught three times for tesing positive for pot, yet MLB doesn’t suspend minor-leaguers on your first positive test for pot – it does on your second and third. One more positive test and he’s banned from baseball for life. Not sure I’d want to count on a three-time offender personally, but Dayton Moore apparently feels otherwise.

    You got to hand it to Doug Melvin for his offseason moves (and non-moves in not trading Fielder)….in the wide-open NL Central, acquiring Greinke should allow them to challenge Cincy and St, Louis for first place.

    • http://www.theyankeeu.com/author/steve-s/ Nostra-Artist

      That division just got much tighter. Cincy loses Harang, MIL adds Grienke and the Cards are always competitive. Could be a great race next year, with only one team making the playoffs.

      • YankeesJunkie

        Don’t forget Marcum he could easily tear up the NL Central.

      • http://www.twitter.com/jordansmed JGS

        They lost Harang, but they won the division more or less without him this year. He had a 5.32 ERA and was bumped from the rotation.

    • http://www.blogs.thetenthinningstretch.com the tenth inning stretch

      It’s been updated to a player-to-be-named, not Jeffress.

  • Pete C.

    Everything said above is understood.
    I still have 2 questions, first is Brian Cashman asleep at the switch? Because I’ve heard more about him rappelling off a building in Stamford than how the Yanks are going to make a run at the playoffs let alone win another championship.
    And if it’s not a problem with Cashman’s dithering, did we inadvertently step into Mr. Peabody’s wayback machine and nobody wants to play for the Yankees as free agents anymore? Maybe someone should point out that Big Stein passed away last season.

    • http://www.theyankeeu.com/author/steve-s/ Nostra-Artist

      Sorry to self promote, but I think the answer is in my morning piece today.

      http://www.theyankeeu.com/2010.....-who-23777

      There’s nobody available, and I can’t even see who will be available next year. Best thing he can do is stack the bullpen with Lefties on short deals and wait for the kids.

      • CP

        There’s nobody available

        There’s always someone available, even if we don’t know it.

        • http://www.theyankeeu.com/author/steve-s/ Nostra-Artist

          NO

          BO

          DY

          nnnnnnnnnobody.

          Give me a name.

          • Tank the Frank

            IETC

    • Dave

      Re: trades – most teams are concerned with improving their own teams, not the Yankees’. Any GM that dealt with the Yanks has to come out looking like the ‘winner’ in the deal.

      Re: free agents – Lee felt comfortable in Philly and Wood really wanted to be at home to raise his kids. I don’t think it’s the beginning of a trend or anything. Yanks have very specific needs and aren’t chasing expensive FAs for whom they have no need. Remember, the Red Sox and Blue Jays were both going after Martin, but we still got him. I know it’s not a big name, but after Lee, there weren’t ‘names’ that fit our needs in FA.

      • http://twitter.com/AndrewLeighNYC Andrew

        Yanks have very specific needs and aren’t chasing expensive FAs for whom they have no need.

        I wish more people understood that, instead of freaking out whenever other teams add guys they desperately need that may or may not work out in the long run, particular when those other teams are in the AL East and the Yankees’ big rivals. It’s like Cashman is expected to just add a piece that doesn’t fit and costs $100 million or a boatload of prospects, just because he has to save face. If Pettitte decides to keep pitching and they address a few more role player spots, their offseason is still pretty solid.

        • pete

          this, so very much.

          The Yankees came into this offseason “needing” at least one good pitcher and a solid one. The optimal scenario would have been to sign Lee and Pettitte, and Lee, being the better pitcher, was the top priority. Still, they took a responsible approach with him, and did all they could do to get him to sign without giving him an absurd and team-compromising offer. He didn’t take their offer. That sucked.

          Pettitte still hasn’t signed, and some believe he will retire. That would suck. But that is 100% Andy’s choice. It’s not on Cashman if Andy doesn’t sign; that’s a personal decision. If he doesn’t, we’re in a tough spot in terms of the rotation, although we’ll still have a top-10 ace and probably the best lineup in baseball. Cashman will need to look to the trade market for pitching, but he’ll still need to be responsible, because the team has a metric fuckton of quality starting prospects not too far from the bigs. If the team doesn’t make the playoffs this year, that will suck, but A) it’s not likely, and B) they’ll be better off in the future for not trading the farm for a marginal pitcher.

          Boston signing Crawford and trading for Gonzalez does not mean the Yankees have to counter those moves. What’s more, despite the sox drastically improving their lineup, the Yankees’ is still better. And if Pettitte signs, the rotations are just about equal, too. And if Burnett bounces back, then all the better.

          The team is not solely comprised of its offseason acquisitions, and the offseason isn’t even over yet.

          • http://www.mystiqueandaura.com/ JMK

            I agree with almost all of this but I’d give Boston’s rotation an edge, even if Pettitte resigned.

            And I don’t mean in the old ‘Five Aces’ meme kind of way.

            • pete

              I can see that, but I’m not that high on Buccholz. I think he and Hughes will put up very similar numbers next year, in the 3.50-4.00 ERA range

        • http://bloodfarm.tumblr.com matt damon wayans

          Seriously, that is something the Mets do. This is the New York Yankees, spend money on players that can help you win, not flashy guys coming off great years in order to appease your fan base.

    • Big Juan

      I still have 2 questions, first is Brian Cashman asleep at the switch? Because I’ve heard more about him rappelling off a building in Stamford than how the Yanks are going to make a run at the playoffs let alone win another championship.

      Yes, I’m sure those 1-2 days have completely stopped him from doing his job. Find something more intelligent to complain about.

      • http://www.riveraveblues.com Mike Axisa

        Yes, I’m sure those 1-2 days 6-8 hours have completely stopped him from doing his job. Find something more intelligent to complain about.

        FTFY

        • Big Juan

          Even better.

      • Pete C.

        Hey big juan, the conversation went way beyond that original post so if you don’t agree that’s ok, no need to insult. And, to mike Axisa; piling on? When your a member of the staff? No wonder Nomass’s rips you guys all the time

    • Ted Nelson

      You realize that they’re largely bringing back the same team that won 95 games and made the ALCS last season, right? Cliff Lee would have been huge, but this is not a team that needed a huge upgrade to make the playoffs. The D-Backs gave Dan Haren away at the deadline last season, and if the Yankees can tread water until then maybe that sort of deal is their best solution in the rotation. Otherwise they’ve added a C and LOOGY, their only non-starting pitcher holes are on the bench (generally you sign those guys after the starters are off the market) and maybe another reliever.

  • GermanYankee

    wow, looks like the Brewers go all-in this offseason. They clearly wanna win now. NL Central isn’t that tough, they might have a pretty good shot to make the postseason if they stay healthy.

  • deadrody

    Good lord, politically correct to the end

    What is there to “not buy” about the Yankees concerns ? The ability to pitch / play under the pressure of NY and for the Yankees is a concern with EVERY player. To dismiss out of hand the possibility that someone diagnosed with an anxiety disorder might have that much MORE trouble adjusting to NY is foolish, to say the least.

    • Big Juan

      I don’t think anyone at RAB ever dismissed it. Merely, they didn’t think it was as big a deal as everyone wanted it to be.

      • http://www.riveraveblues.com Mike Axisa

        Bingo. If he was a generic, league average innings eater, it would be more of a concern. Given Greinke’s talent, the upside is so great that I think it’s worth the risk.

      • http://www.twitter.com/deanezag Zack

        1:24 [Comment From Adam from LIAdam from LI: ]
        Aren’t you a little worried with Grenike’s supposed anxiety issues?If this is true and he has anxiety in front of the 14 people in the stands in KC don’t you think that is a recipe for disaster in NY? One bad game and this guy could have a meltdown.

        1:25 I’m not worried, because I don’t know anything about it. Therefore, I don’t pretend to feel strongly about it one way or another.

        That’s from Winter Meetings Day 4 chat – while it’s fine to say some people make it too big of an idea, that comment from Joe does dismiss SAD.

        • http://www.theyankeeu.com/author/steve-s/ Nostra-Artist

          It’s easy to be dismissive when you don’t have any skin in the game. If you put yourself in Cashman’s shoes, and understand that a move like that can cause a backlash that could cause you to lose your job, you’d think twice about it.

          Too many moves that look great at the time don’t work out for a variety of reasons. One that is that questionable beforehand will stick to you forever if it doesn’t work out.

          • pete

            But can you actually name a single instance in which a move that “looked great at the time” backfired wherein a legitimate case can be made that NY was the cause? I’m looking, but I can’t find any.

            • http://www.theyankeeu.com/author/steve-s/ Nostra-Artist

              It doesn’t matter if it’s provable or not, the perception will be the reality in terms of his job security.

              • esteban

                Hal Steinbrenner doesn’t seem like the type of guy who would listen the likes of Kevin kernan when deciding how secure Cashman’s job is.

                • pete

                  that

              • Dave

                Aha! Now apply same logic to our Ian Kennedy discussion.

            • http://www.twitter.com/deanezag Zack

              I bet you can’t find a player with SAD who openly said these comments either: Can you name an instance where a player who is diagnosed with SAD said these statements: “[The environment] had a lot to do with [signing the extension], for sure,” said Greinke. “Now, maybe New York would bother me, but I don’t think anywhere else would bother me anymore. Even though I’m in Kansas City, I’ve gotten used to it a lot more. New York, I still might have trouble in New York. I probably would. But I think almost everyone does.”

              The own player said he has concerns with how he could handle NY – but I shouldn’t because I’m not a doctor and don’t know everything about SAD?

              • http://www.twitter.com/deanezag Zack

                Meh, double introduction, ignore the first sentence after the :

              • http://www.riveraveblues.com Mike Axisa

                That quote is also what, two years old? Maybe three?

                • http://www.twitter.com/deanezag Zack

                  He said it at the 2009 All Star game. So a year and half or so.

                  • MikeD

                    I’m guessing many players have the same thought about NY being difficult. It didn’t strike me his statement was all that strong, and he did seem open to being traded to NY. I would be concerned, though, that his family and friends did NOT want him to go to NY. They know him and what he’s been through quite well, so if they have a concern, then I’d have a concern.

              • pete

                The most telling part of that quote:

                “I think almost everyone does.”

                His perception of NY seems to be one where it’s insanely difficult to succeed, which is how it is portrayed in the media. History, however, does not back up this perception.

          • http://www.riveraveblues.com Mike Axisa

            Not getting a pitcher can also cost him his job. We can play this game all day. We feel differently, and that’s all there is too it.

    • pete

      Sure it’s a concern, but I really think that it takes an absurd amount of confidence to even pursue baseball as a career. Then there’s the gauntlet of the minor leagues (bus rides, etc.), and then the majors. Greinke has been receiving medication for SAD ever since his diagnosis, and he has shown no signs of being unable to perform under pressure since then.

      As far as the NY-is-tougher-than-other-places, I disagree. Derek Jeter always says that winning creates chemistry; you have more fun when you win. Playing 162 games for the Royals would be a boring, lonely grind for an intelligent introvert like Greinke. Playing around players who are happy all the time (because of the winning) in front of fans who are motivated would, I think, be more likely to contribute positively to one’s performance than negatively.

      Sure, that’s a claim backed by zero empirical evidence, but so is yours. Everybody takes it as dogma that some players “just can’t cut it in NY” but I have yet to see a single example of a good player suddenly losing his ability in NY, let alone a legitimate trend.

      Not buying it.

  • Raphy

    Wow. Can we ship move any more top pitchers from the AL to the NL? The disparity is starting to become really striking.

    • http://www.twitter.com/ngoral Jake LaMotta’s Left Hook

      I know. Casey Kelly was a tough loss for the AL.

      • GermanYankee

        don’t forget about Moseley XD

      • Mattchu12

        Made my morning reading this. I love that even though he is no longer with Boston, we can still make fun of this guy. Thank you.

  • mike o

    i said it before and i will say it again,CASHMAN is the worse GM in baseball,CASHMAN and his prospects will not win us anything in 2011.CASHMAN cannot get a trade that is worthwhile,let’s start a dump CASHMAN movement

    • pete

      oaktag

    • YankeesJunkie

      Wrong website. Go to the top of the page and click on YES to get to their message board.

      Thanks and sorry for the inconvenience.

    • Doug

      how about a dump mike o movement

      • http://twitter.com/steveh_mandaura Steve H

        I’ll sign that petition.

    • http://www.secondavenuesagas.com Benjamin Kabak

      How dare he not acquire every player in baseball.

      Gain some perspective please.

    • http://youcantpredictbaseball.wordpress.com/ bexarama

      Lombardi, you hit “Publish Post” on the wrong website.

    • http://www.retire21.org Mike R.- Retire 21

      I find it amusing that you do not capitalize your name, but go through the trouble of writing “Cashman” in caps every time.

  • John

    See you in two years, Zack.

    • Slappy White

      He’ll take a lesser offer to stay with the Brewers at that point

    • Dave

      Ooh, I’m not so sure of that. What we didn’t give up to get him, might actually be MLB-ready by 2013. We might not even need Greinke at that point.

      …’might’ not

      • John

        In 2013, I think the most likely scenario is:

        Sabathia
        Hughes
        FA
        Burnett
        Banuelos

        That FA could very be Greinke in two years if they don’t go with a guy like Buehrle next year after Pettitte retires (if he even comes back). Lots of hypotheticals, but I can see it.

        • kosmo

          I would suspect if NY doesn´t trade any legit pitching prospects away and if a couple of them don´t blowout their arms we might see Adam Warren and probably Betances on that list.

        • http://www.twitter.com/jordansmed JGS

          Or Brackman, who is out of options at that point. He has to be on the team or traded by 2013. Or in the pen, I guess.

  • Reggie C.

    Jake Odorizzi is supposed to be a pretty good pitching prospect and we’ll probably see the kid’s name in the top half of the top 100 prospects lists. Pot issues aside, Jeffress has got about as live as arm as you’ll find in the minors. Jeffress could probably make KC’s bullpen now.

    I like these “complementary” pieces more than the main pieces (Cain and Escobar). Cain and Escobar are gonna start but I think the Royals will end up getting more punch from Odorizzi and Jeffress.

    Moore wanted up-the-middle talent…he got it…to a degree.

    • YankeesJunkie

      Sort of surprised that the Brewers did not give up Lucroy he is better than Cain and Escobar because he has shown power all the way till 2009 and got rushed a bit in 2010.

    • pete

      Is it really just pot with Jeffress? I heard he was one positive substance abuse test away from being out of the league…can they really be banned for smoking frickin marijuana?

      • http://www.twitter.com/deanezag Zack

        He admitted it was for weed after the first suspension, but didn’t specify after the second.

        http://mlb.fanhouse.com/2009/0.....100-games/

      • Reggie C.

        I believe pot is listed under the league’s “drug of abuse” designation that comes with the 50/100/life-time ban punishment. The league apparently doesn’t name the drug when it doles out the suspension, and didn’t in Jeffress’ case, but the kid did apparently admit to pot use after the 50 game suspension.

        I kinda hope for Jeffress’ sake that the second suspension woke him the hell up. Playing baseball is a profession, and like any profession, the boss can fire you for cause.

      • http://www.riveraveblues.com Mike Axisa

        They test for pot (and other drugs of abuse) in the minors, it’s considered a banned substance. It gets the 50/100/lifetime treatment.

        • pete

          wow. I mean I’m not in love with the stuff, and I totally get why a team might fire a player for it, but I think it’s crazy that the league does, too.

    • YankeesJunkie

      Jeffress’s 2009 AA numbers are a must see he struck out and walked more than 10 guys per 9 innings over 27.1 IP.

  • Dave

    Can Hedo Turkoglu pitch?

    :-D

  • Doug

    apparently Jeffress is not in the deal

  • Doug

    and it appears the nationals were about to get greinke but he exerted his no-trade clause

    • http://www.theyankeeu.com/author/steve-s/ Nostra-Artist

      How hard can it be to activate a no trade clause? I can’t see him getting ‘exerted’ over that, he’s a professional athlete. :wink:

    • YankeesJunkie

      That is sort of surprising, I guess he must like the midwestern types of cities more than the east coast.

      • http://twitter.com/AndrewLeighNYC Andrew

        Could have also been team-motivated, in terms of maybe he thinks the Brewers have a better chance of winning immediately and also sustaining it over a few years than the Nats. Or maybe he hates the DC traffic. Or both.

    • Doug

      mike, any guess what a nationals equivalent deal would have been?

      • http://www.riveraveblues.com Mike Axisa

        They were talking about Drew Storen, Danny Espinosa, and other pieces. They don’t have the CF like Cain to give up, so I’m not sure who else it could have been.

  • esteban

    Now that Greinke’s off the market, who’s the next pitcher who will pop up in everybody’s crazy trade proposals?

    • YankeesJunkie

      Danks?

      • Evan3457

        You’re welcome.

    • http://twitter.com/AndrewLeighNYC Andrew

      The Felix Hernandez insanity will just continue uninterrupted, no matter how many times it gets shot down.

    • Mike Pop

      Jonathan Sanchez.

      • http://danielslifka.wordpress.com Jerome S.

        Why would SF do anything to change a rotation that just won the WS?

        • Mike Pop

          That’s what I’m saying.

          esteban said – who’s the next crazy pitcher to pop up in trade proposals. I just said, maybe Jonny Sanchez.

      • http://www.twitter.com/jordansmed JGS

        Sanchez has a career 4.6 BB/9, and that’s not a function of walking a ton of guys when he was younger (5.2, 4.8, 4.3, 4.8, 4.5 for the five seasons of his career). The last time any Yankees pitcher had a walk rate that high in a season of 150 innings or more (Sanchez has pitched 150 in each of the last three years) was David Cone in 2000 (6.91 ERA), then Doc Gooden in 1996 (5.01), then Andy Hawkins in 1990 (5.37).

        Sanchez covers that up by striking out a ton of guys (9.4 per 9 innings for his career), but a move from the NL West to the AL East will probably knock that down to the point where he becomes AJ Burnett redux. Plus, the Giants aren’t likely to deal him after winning the World Series and presumably wanting to keep their rotation together as long as they can.

        Pass

    • http://www.theyankeeu.com/author/steve-s/ Nostra-Artist

      http://www.mlbtraderumors.com/.....eries.html

      Pick your favorite small market team, click the link and…..you’ll still come up empty. Ricky Nolasco, anyone?

    • Reggie C.

      Apparently, anybody on the White Sox pitching staff is available. Carlos Quentin too (but that’s another thread).

  • Dave

    You gotta give Milwaukee credit for trying to actually do something in the Hot Stove. But whenever I see the Brewers or Reds or Astros do anything of significance, all I can think of is how there’s 6 teams in their division and the disadvantage therein. Luckily for them, it appears the Pirates are looking for a transfer to the Independent League.

    • YankeesJunkie

      Pirates have zero payroll dedicated to the 2013 roster it is truly insane.

      • Mike Pop

        But pretty cool at the same time.

  • http://youcantpredictbaseball.wordpress.com bexarama

    Honestly I’ve heard good things about Odorizzi but other than that… Drabek and Snider wasn’t enough but this package was? I’m starting to think that if you trade an ace to the other league you end up getting nothing for it (Santana, Haren, the Cleveland/Philly Lee deal, I think the haul for this trade is better than those two but Drabek/Snider is likely better. Wait – I remember a lot of the prospects in the Sabathia deal were highly regarded, just none of them really panned out. And the Halladay deal wasn’t awful).

    • http://youcantpredictbaseball.wordpress.com bexarama

      Also minus Castro the NL Central is Land of the Terrible Shortstops.

    • Reggie C.

      Were Drabek and Snider ever really BOTH available though or was that pairing a media invention?

      • http://youcantpredictbaseball.wordpress.com bexarama

        Supposedly they were. I have no idea if that’s a media invention or not.

        • http://bloodfarm.tumblr.com matt damon wayans

          I thought that rumor radiated from the Jays officially announcing that they would never include both Snider and Drabek in a trade.

    • pete

      I could see Dayton more just flat out assuming that Snyder can’t play the field, despite the fact that he absolutely can.

      • pete

        wow it looks like I massively misspelled “Moore” when really I was just saying “more”

  • Jeffrey

    Hey guys I have a great trade proposal to make which will solve all of our problems.

    We trade Curtis Granderson and Boone Logan and we get back a young, inexpensive starter, Ian Kennedy; a 23 yr old centerfielder who had an OPS of .745 in his first full year, Austin Jackson; a lefty for the bullpen or maybe the rotation a la C.J. Wilson, Phil Coke; another promising lefty reliever, Mike Dunn, and a top 25 prospect Arodys Vizcaiano.

    What, they’ll never do it?

    Hmm. Maybe sometimes it is better to play the hand that you have been dealt.

    • http://danielslifka.wordpress.com Jerome S.

      How do you suggest that we split two trade pieces between three teams?
      YTPS. I’m sorry about that.

      • Mike Pop

        Magic.

      • esteban

        I don’t think he was actually proposing those trades; just a roundabout way of criticizing the trades the Yankees made last offseason.

        Boone Logan did fine as the LOOGY last year, I’m still betting on granderson to be better than AJAX, and Phil coke hasn’t even shown he’s a good reliever, just because the Tigers are attempting to make him a starter doesn’t mean he’ll be effective. It might be nice to have Kennedy, but he didn’t reall prove himself in the opportunities he got with the Yankees.

        • kosmo

          IPK got one chance ! and because of his youthful naivete got hammered in the media for being matter of a fact after an especially bad game.

          • Esteban

            He did well in his call up in ’07, but in ’08, he pitched to a 8.17 ERA in nine starts. Maybe they gave up on him too early, but maybe he just benefited from pitching in the NL West last year.

    • http://youcantpredictbaseball.wordpress.com bexarama

      Yeah this would not solve all our problems. At all.

      • http://www.theyankeeu.com/author/steve-s/ Nostra-Artist

        What problems do we have, exactly? The team that won 95 games last year is still almost completely intact. Nova should be able to replicate, if not improve upon what Vazquez gave you. As long as Andy comes back, I don’t see any glaring needs. Wood might be the biggest loss, and its extremely unlikely he would have repeated his performance had he stayed.

        • pete

          Andy hasn’t come back yet. That is currently our biggest problem. Unless/until he does, the team needs to try to prepare for a scenario where he does not rejoin the team. Unfortunately, there’s nothing major that they could responsibly do to hedge against that scenario. If Pettitte retires, the Yankees will have a shot at the playoffs, but it will be much, much harder than it has been the last two years. A bad injury could kill them this year if they don’t sign Andy.

    • jay destro

      this is yer brain on drugs.

    • http://www.theyankeeu.com/author/steve-s/ Nostra-Artist

      You can keep Dunn, but point taken. When Brian talks about “patience” I think he’s referring to exactly this. There’s loads of arms on the way in AA/AAA.

    • Dave

      C.J. Wilson was not in the Yankees system

      • Dave

        Ok, I see now that you’re likening Coke to Wilson. That’s a stretch, but point taken.

    • http://www.retire21.org Mike R.- Retire 21

      You lost me at “…or maybe the rotation a la C.J. Wilson, Phil Coke”.

      • http://twitter.com/JoeRo23 The Honorable Congressman Mondesi

        He lost me when he tried to make a point by reverse-engineering a trade while leaving out multiple players and teams that were involved.

        It’s just gobbledy-gook.

        • http://www.theyankeeu.com/author/steve-s/ Nostra-Artist

          I always thought it was ‘gobbledy goop’

          • http://twitter.com/JoeRo23 The Honorable Congressman Mondesi

            That’s just the politically-correct way of saying it.

            http://sadtrombone.com/

            • http://www.theyankeeu.com/author/steve-s/ Nostra-Artist

              It’s my understanding that ‘goop’ is highly offensive to southern Tazmanians.

          • bonestock94

            Definitely gook

      • http://bloodfarm.tumblr.com matt damon wayans

        Both are left handed and are symbol-using animals and thus are the same.

    • YankeesJunkie

      The only player I miss from those deals now is Vizcaino because he is a legit prospect even with the arm injury. Kennedy and his lack of GB% would not be good at Yankee Stadium, Jackson BABIP .400 and has not shown power even though he strikes out like a power hitter, Phil Coke as a starter is laughable and Mike Dunn is a dime a dozen.

      • Mike

        Until I see a noticeable improvement in Granderson’s performance from last year, I will not be impressed with the deal. Right now, it’s still too early to tell. But I believe Kennedy and Jackson have done very well for their first full time stints.

    • http://www.thesubwayconnection.com Newbie

      Well… nevermind

    • Dave

      Once Ian Kennedy said that “he pitched 3 straight good starts in AAA, so one bad start in Yankee Stadium didn’t matter to him,” then followed that up with “I don’t care if my next start is here (NY) or in the minors” he was dead to me.

      That kid is a soft chump. Good friggin riddance.

      • http://www.theyankeeu.com/author/steve-s/ Nostra-Artist

        This is how we should make all our evaluations of prospects. Fire Oppenheimer and hire Dave immediately.

        • Mike

          Kennedy has clearly shown himself to be an utter failure in the majors. *sighs*

          • Dave

            Honestly, I’m not a rush-to-judgment person. He just didn’t “get it.” Hughes & Joba took their shellackings like men. That interview was just too revealing of his make-up and the straw that broke the camel’s back IMHO.

            • http://www.theyankeeu.com/author/steve-s/ Nostra-Artist

              That’s a good makeup for a pitcher to have. Pitchers need to have confidence in their abilities and put bad outings behind them quickly. He just didn’t articulate it very well. The lesson he needed to learn was more in handling the media, not the actual content of his statements.

              • Dave

                Time will tell. For the time being, I’ll just agree to disagree. I do feel that if he stayed in NY, every comment and outing would’ve been overly-scrutinized to the point of stunting any potential progess.

            • The Big City of Dreams

              Wasn’t Joba criticized for some of his post game comments as well?

              “The sun will come up tomorrow”

              • Dave

                There’s a huge difference between “water off a ducks back” responses knowing that he’s gotta go back out there and get back on the horse (Joba) and not caring about the MLB game because you’ve been pitching so well at AAA and not caring whether your next start is on the MLB roster (Kennedy).

                • The Big City of Dreams

                  I don’t man I remember alot of fans getting upset with his comments. Saying things like Joba is delusional. I wasn’t one of them because I didn’t feel his post game interviews was a sign that he didn’t care.

        • Dave

          Haha. I will work for food, too.

          • http://www.theyankeeu.com/author/steve-s/ Nostra-Artist

            Even better. Saves us the money for a IFA or two.

    • pete

      Granderson >> Jackson
      Logan >>>> Dunn

      Obviously Kennedy and Viz are worth more (together) than Vazquez was last year, but Vazquez was coming off a stellar year and showed no signs of being about to completely lose his stuff. And honestly, Kennedy on the Yanks pretty much is Vazquez from last year. It sucks that we lost Arodys, but put me in the same situation as last year, and I make that move every time. Even more so the Granderson move.

      In the long term, we pretty much lost nothing of significance in trading Granderson (since he easily recoups anything Jackson and his right-handed powerlessness could have provided, and then some, and Kennedy just doesn’t have the stuff to be more than mediocre in the AL East), and all we lost from the Vazquez deal was a good, but not particularly close to the majors, pitching prospect with an injury history.

      • kosmo

        Well the NL west Giants won the WS .I´m sick and tired of hearing about the vaunted AL East.Total bullshit!

        • http://www.secondavenuesagas.com Benjamin Kabak

          Just because the Giants won the World Series doesn’t mean the AL East isn’t far and away the toughest division in baseball. It is.

        • pete

          They had to win one series against an AL opponent to do so.

  • Mike

    Cashman didn’t seem to have much patience with prospects in the past. Hopefully now his “patience” statement means a renewed emphasis in playing prospects in the majors. We need to give these kids more time to shine before we dump them.

    • http://twitter.com/steveh_mandaura Steve H

      I think part of the reason he didn’t have patience with prospects in the past is that his “prospects” kind of sucked. He really has never been burnt by a prospect going on to great things, because the system was so weak.

      • Mike

        That’s kinda depressing to think with our resources. Maybe you’re right. Hopefully our next batch don’t “suck” and he gives them a chance to succeed.

        • http://twitter.com/steveh_mandaura Steve H

          Yeah, I definitely think that Cashman’s commitment to the farm will coincide with patience with some of these guys. They went from a bottom 5 farm system a few years ago to a top 10, so they definitely have some guys who will be productive major leaguers, hopefully some with the Yankees.

      • The Big City of Dreams

        “I think part of the reason he didn’t have patience with prospects in the past is that his “prospects” kind of sucked.”

        Does that include Joba

        • http://www.secondavenuesagas.com Benjamin Kabak

          Do you really think Joba sucks?

          • The Big City of Dreams

            I’m referring to him not having patience with prospects. It’s obvious to me he didn’t have patience with him as a starter and now we’re left with a middle reliever that’s inconsistent. If the statement from the original poster holds true than I guess ppl can take that as Joba sucked.

        • http://twitter.com/steveh_mandaura Steve H

          No, Joba is one of the ones he kept around and has had success at the major league level.

  • burbankbogey

    At this point I am just hopeful we can get Andy back. I think it is pretty apparent we are heading into the season with CC, Hughes, Andy, AJ and whoever wins the 5th spot in camp as our rotation. We were never in on Greinke and a trade for a pitcher better than the current top 3 is not happening at least prior to season starting.

  • Ted Nelson

    Trade works out well for the Yanks, IMO. Greinke’s in the NL. Royals don’t appear to get that great a package for him. And, he’s going to a small market club where he’s as likely as not to hit free agency anyway in a couple of seasons or be re-traded before he can leave. Milwaukee isn’t a pressure cooker, but it’s a new situation and he might get to pitch in the playoffs or at least meaningful regular season games. Yanks can get a better look at his make-up and stuff, then maybe sign him down the road.

    I don’t know how I feel about the Brewers’ approach… I might have traded Fielder and tried to build a longer-term contender rather than going all in for one season. Then again, they can still trade Fielder and maybe hold onto Greinke or deal him before he hits FA… I didn’t feel like they gave up that much and by itself I guess this deal is a no-brainer for them.

    • YankeesJunkie

      Trade works out for the Brewers as well they get a bona fide ace on the team at a reasonable contract for the next two years. At worst they could trade him and get some nice prospects in return.

      • Ted Nelson

        Yeah, this deal was a no-brainer for me if I’m the Brewers I guess… Just for a team to have two of their best players hitting free agency in one and two years with maybe little chance of signing either is pretty bitter-sweet.

        • YankeesJunkie

          That is true, but at least they are making a push while they can and its not like they gave up a ton talent IMO. Escobar can’t hit and their best prospect they gave up was Odorizzi who is still a long way out.

          • Ted Nelson

            Agreed. It’s just the way the cookie crumbles for small-market teams in MLB. If you have talent you can win, but you’re also probably going to lose it.

            Young players being under team control for so long, though, would seem to incentivize building a young team. Then again young teams are volatile and full of guys who are still developing.

            They’ve got 1.5-2 years to decide what to do with Greinke, so I guess what they do with Fielder is more interesting right now. I guess they probably see how their season starts and what offers are out there as the deadline nears.

  • bonestock94

    Without Jeffress this deal goes from bad to worse.

    • Ted Nelson

      Depends who the player to be named is… And given that he’s apparently one strike away from being banned from baseball, I might prefer someone else from what’s supposed to be the best system in baseball over him…

      • Doug

        thought KC had the best system in baseball. only getting better

        • Ted Nelson

          Haha… yeah, logic fail on my part. I was meaning KC and forgetting they were getting the prospects…

          So scratch best system, but point being it’s preferable to have a guy who is not banned over a guy who is banned. The one strike from being banned guy would have to be way better than the non-banned guy to make it worth the risk. So, if the player to be named is pretty close to Jeffress this might be sound by KC. Or maybe the player to be named will be Jeffress, and they just want to see him pass a few more piss tests before assuming the risk.

    • http://www.blogs.thetenthinningstretch.com the tenth inning stretch

      MLBTR reporting this afternoon that now Jeffress is the player to be named.

  • http://www.theyankeeu.com/author/steve-s/ Nostra-Artist

    Jon Heyman says Greinke also told the KC braintrust that he wouldn’t mind coming to New York, but it was his family members that had reservations.

    Suuuure, hide behind your wife’s apron strings. Zach needs to see a psychiatrist, preferably this one.

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JhlWddAXSRA

    YOU DO!

  • Greg

    “Independent bloggers get written off all the time because some schmucks out there throw out bad information as an attention grab, and it reflects poorly on all of us. ”

    I don’t know about that. I think it has more to do with a bias against bloggers. “Real reporters” are wrong and throw out terrible information ( and/or doing their main job of doing PR for the establishment)all the time, but they get a pass because of “credentials.” Almost all real scoops seem to come from bloggers and independent journalists. Establishment media is there to report on “news” that is already known.

    • http://www.theyankeeu.com/author/steve-s/ Nostra-Artist

      Yeah, most reporters have their own blogs nowadays, and blogs do analysis that most newspapers don’t touch. I think this was more true a few years ago, but at this point it’s apples and oranges. Blogs have their niche, and newspapers play to the (aging) man on the street.

  • UnNamed Yankee Source

    So….

    How many wins did the Yanks gain by the defections to the National League of Lee & Greinke?

    • Mike

      Probably as much as Boston and Tampa.

    • http://www.theyankeeu.com/author/steve-s/ Nostra-Artist

      No idea, but you can say that if the Yanks retain Andy they’ve done no worse than stayed the same, while the field has become weaker. (ALCS foe) Texas has taken a huge step back, and the division rival Rays look weaker as well. Sox are better, but the difference between A-Gon and V-Mart isn’t huge. Crawford’s an upgrade, but his speed will be wasted defensively at Fenway. If they stay healthy they’re as good or better than the Yanks, but Beckett, Lackey, Pedrioa and Dice-K all have question marks related to their health. As do some Yanks, but the Yanks won 95 with those question marks last year. The Sox won 89, so they needed to upgrade more than the Yanks did.

    • Dave

      Now if Boston would just trade Lester for Blanton straight up, we’d be all set…

  • Ted Nelson

    Mike, not to say that Nunez is that great but can you explain why you think Escobar is in a totally different class? I mean if Nunez is as awful as you think and Escobar seems to be only a bit better… how good is Escobar?

    MiLB OPS: .709 vs. .687
    AA: .759 vs. .782
    AAA: .762 vs. .721

    Plus Escobar bombed hitting as a rookie. Nunez cut his errors pretty much in half from where he’s normally been in the minors. And (while it’s a small sample on a volatile metric) with a rookie UZR/150 of 4.7 I don’t know if Escobar’s defense is spectacular enough to make him that valuable if he can’t hit.

    Again, this is not to hype Nunez… just to question Escobar as the center-piece to a Greinke deal.

    • http://www.riveraveblues.com Mike Axisa

      I’ve never been a believer in Escobar. He can’t hit, never really has except for one year in AA, and there’s no reason to expect him to hit in the future. He can absolutely play shortstop, but what does that make him, Cesar Izturis? Maybe Jason Bartlett is things break right? Meh. His value is in being dirt cheap.

      • Doug

        what did BA see in him that they had him at 19 on their top 100 in 2009?

        • http://www.riveraveblues.com Mike Axisa

          They saw the one year in AA. Being a top prospect and a great player are not synonymous. Escobar will be a big leaguer because of his glove.

      • Ted Nelson

        Yeah, agreed…

      • Granderslam

        Ramiro Pena?

      • pete

        I think he pretty much is Nunez, just with better D, and maybe a little less patience. That makes him pretty much a god to the Royals.

    • Accent Shallow

      Except Escobar is touted as a plus defender, whereas Nunez is touted as merely having a strong arm.

  • YankeesJunkie

    Mike, if you are a Royals fan are you pretty upset for what they got back for the team’s franchise player.

    • http://www.riveraveblues.com Mike Axisa

      I feel like they could have done better, but who knows.

  • mustang

    I think this seals the fact that Montero is not going anywhere unless something surprising pops up. With Greinke off the board all that’s really out there is Nolasco and Zambrano everyone else is mediocre. I know people here don’t like Zambrano, but if they can get the Cubs to eat some salary he wouldn’t cost much in prospects he is probably the best bet.

    • Doug

      they’d have to eat upwards of $20M for the yanks to bite

      • mustang

        Come on how about half? Head case or not 18 million and B type prospects for 2 years of Zambrano is not bad. I think people are way undervaluing the guy here.

        • Doug

          this is not zambrano from 3 or 4 years ago. the current version throws 90-91 and walks way too many guys. lots of mileage on that arm

          • mustang

            And was lights out in the second half last season.

            He is far from perfect, but looking at what’s out there can you come up with better keeping cost (both in money and prospects) in mind?

            • Doug

              like i said, have no problem with zambrano if we’re only left with a 2/15 contract

              • mustang

                Agree I say more like 2/18, but we are in the park.

    • Granderslam

      I want absolutely nothing to do with Zambrano.

      • mustang

        Ok why?
        Name me someone else that’s available, not coming of an injury, not costing a boatload of prospects and with his upside?

        • Doug

          what upside? not sure he has any at this point of his career

          • mustang

            8-0 with a era under 2 in the second half with the Yankees current pitching coach..

            • http://www.riveraveblues.com Mike Axisa

              What about the other seven years he was his pitching coach? 2007 through the first half of 2010 don’t just go away.

              • mustang

                No they don’t but again what’s out there? All I have seen the last week is thread after thread on how this guy is not worth it and that guy is not worth it. So what’s the answer because Nova and Mitre are not it.

            • http://www.twitter.com/deanezag Zack

              Zambrano as a starter in the 2nd half had a .236 BABIP, gave up 1 HR in 73 IP, 7.68 K/9, and a 5.12 BB/9.

              The 8-0 sub-2.00 is so misleading.

              • http://www.riveraveblues.com Mike Axisa

                Nice, he got his Kerry Wood on.

              • mustang

                Again no one is giving me other names.

                • http://www.riveraveblues.com Mike Axisa

                  I did below.

            • Ted Nelson

              Rothschild has always been his pitching coach and that strong finish only makes him more valuable to the Cubs. For the Cubs, either you give him away and get little return because of the massive contract, or you eat salary and probably still don’t get a great return because of the volatility. I agree with those who say he’s more valuable to the Cubs in uniform than in a trade.

              • http://www.twitter.com/deanezag Zack

                IMO, I pay him to be another team’s problem. Let them be a mediocre/rebuilding team without him blowing up every couple months.

          • mustang

            I can understand you not like him , but he is better then Nova and Mitre and you haven’t given me any better choices.

            • http://www.riveraveblues.com Mike Axisa

              A lot of pitches are better than Mitre and Nova. The Yankees should acquire one of the not crazy ones.

              • mustang

                Give me some?
                That :

                1- have at least the same upside
                2- are not coming off injury
                3- cost about or the same as him in both money and prospects.

                • http://www.riveraveblues.com Mike Axisa

                  Wandy Rodriguez, Ricky Nolasco for starters. We’ve talked about them the last few days.

                  Zambrano will be 30 in June, he is what he is. There’s no upside.

                  • Mark L

                    Wandy and Keppinger for perhaps Cervelli, one of the Bs and Nova/Nunez or lightening the prospect substantially load but taking back Lindstrom or Lee.

                    With Lee, the Stros would have to eat some money but he’d basically be this year’s version of Thames, albeit with betting defense, if that is imaginable.

                    • http://www.riveraveblues.com Mike Axisa

                      Carlos Lee is an absolute deal breaker. He was worse than Jeff Francouer last year in a park tailor made for RHB. No, a thousand times no.

                  • mustang

                    How much are those guys going to cost in prospect?

                    Oh! the age thing again. How old is Andy?

                    Wow dude he is going to 30!

                    • http://www.twitter.com/deanezag Zack

                      Probably higher cost- no one is going to meet your criteria perfectly; no other pitcher out there who is overpaid, with a history of going after teammates in the dugout and getting suspended by his own team is on the market.

                    • http://www.riveraveblues.com Mike Axisa

                      The cost will be higher because they are a) better than Zambrano, b) cheaper (in terms of contract) than Zambrano, and in Nolasco’s case, c) younger than Zambrano.

                      The remark about him being 30 is in response to you claiming he has upside. Show me a 30 year old with upside and I’ll show you my two bridges for sale.

                    • Ted Nelson

                      Why do you assume the Cubs are rushing to give away Zambrano? Maybe they are, but as a big-market contender who also saw his second half last season maybe they’re not.

                      Rodriguez is a 2011 FA and Nolasco is not all that good, so I don’t know that the prospect cost will be that high for either… if they are available. The reason people can’t throw a bunch of names at you is because no one has spoken to a bunch of GMs candidly about what pitchers they are willing to deal. That includes the Cubs and Zambrano.

                      30 is not that old, but it also means he’s unlikely to suddenly get a whole lot better. That was Mike’s point which you seem to completely ignore. For a bit of a wild guy who is known for his lack of conditioning… 30 could also be a tipping point towards injury and/or ineffectiveness.

                    • mustang

                      And no one going to meet you guys criteria of an Ace without giving up Montero and half the farm

                    • http://www.riveraveblues.com Mike Axisa

                      What criteria of an ace? Lee was a FA and they went after him, Greinke’s a special case. There’s no other guys like that out there, so go for the next best thing.

                  • mustang

                    Wandy Rodriguez is 31!

                    LOL

                    • http://www.riveraveblues.com Mike Axisa

                      Am I claiming he has upside? No. He is what he is, and that’s better than Zambrano.

        • mike c

          Because he’s a big meanie and clearly can’t handle a big market like NY apparently

    • Ted Nelson

      Unless the Cubs are really trying to give him away I think patience might be a better bet than Zambrano. At the deadline you might have a team looking to give someone away, maybe even the Cubs with Zambrano.

      If the Cubs want to contend, division rivals picking up Greinke probably makes them less willing to move Zambrano now. Unless they concede that they’re not contending already and want to rebuild… Or maybe they have another trade lined up and need to move some salary. Overall, though, I buy the logic that Zambrano is more valuable to the Cubs than to other teams for the shear fact that he’s already there but has no trade value with that contract.

  • Doug

    mike, if were going to rank the top 20 pitchers in baseball now, how many are left from the AL? maybe count them on one hand?

    • YankeesJunkie

      CC, Lester, Price, Haren, Hernandez, Liriano, maybe Weaver.

      • Doug

        Here’s my list

        Obvious NL: Halladay, Lee, Hamels, Oswalt, Johnson, Gallardo, Greinke, Wainwright, Lincecum, Cain, Jimenez

        Obvious AL: CC, Lester, Price, Felix, Verlander

        Maybe NL: Carpenter, Oswalt, Santana, Kershaw
        Maybe AL: Danks, Liriano, Haren

        • Total Dominication

          Really, Oswalt over Liriano?

          • Total Dominication

            and where’s Weaver?

          • Doug

            yeah, looking back at it, would probably more oswalt from “obvious” to “maybe”

            • Doug

              “move” not “more”

    • Total Dominication

      It’s not that lopsided, but there is certainly a gap. Here’s how my top 20 is layed out.

      AL:
      Hernandez
      Lester
      CC
      Liriano
      Verlander
      Price
      Weaver
      Floyd

      NL:
      Johnson
      Halladay
      Lee
      Greinke
      Jimenez
      Wainwright
      Gallardo
      Lincecum
      Cain
      Hamels
      Carpenter
      Kershaw

      • Doug

        forgot weaver, would have him on my maybe AL. personally, wouldn’t have floyd that high. prefer oswalt over him, if only for 2011.

        • The Real JobaWockeeZ

          Floyd’s getting there.

    • http://www.riveraveblues.com Mike Axisa

      Using WAR over the last three seasons:

      AL
      Sabathia (19.1)
      Verlander (18.0)
      Lester (17.1)
      Haren (17.0)
      Felix (16.8)
      Weaver (13.1)
      Danks (12.5)
      Buehrle (11.8)
      Beckett (11.8)
      Floyd (11.4)

      NL
      Halladay (21.5)
      Lee (20.9)
      Lincecum (20.8)
      Greinke (19.6)
      Ubaldo (16.3)
      Wainwright (14.1)
      Dempster (12.2)
      Hamels (11.9)
      Cain (11.2)

      Split right down the middle, ten in each league. The next four and five of the next six are in the NL though.

      http://www.fangraphs.com/leade.....ason1=2008

      • Granderslam

        If only we can realistically get one of: Haren, Buehrle, Floyd, or Dempster to slide in the #2 hole in the rotation…life would be grand.

      • Mark L

        In conclusion, why isn’t Cashman burning up the phone lines with Kenny Williams? Before he knows it, KW will have traded Danks to the Red Sox for a Time Wakefield bobblehead.

        • pete

          I like Time Wakefield as a nickname

          • FIPster Doofus

            More like Father Time Wakefield, amirite?

      • http://www.twitter.com/jordansmed JGS

        That’s by fWAR. Same list by bWAR is:

        AL
        Sabathia (16.8)
        Felix (16.3)
        Lester (16.2)
        Danks (16.1)
        Haren (14.0)
        Buehrle (12.8)
        Weaver (12.5)
        Verlander (11.0)

        NL
        Halladay (20.2)
        Lincecum (16.7)
        Lee (16.6)
        Greinke (15.6)
        Ubaldo (15.3)
        Johan (14.4)
        Wainwright (13.9)
        Johnson (13.5)
        Cain (13.0)
        Oswalt (11.9)
        Hamels (11.0)
        Dempster (10.8)

        12-8 in favor of the NL. Four of the next six are NL there too

      • MikeD

        Very small sample size, but the last few years it seems when high-quality pitching becomes available, most times it’s shifting from the AL to the NL, be they named Santana, Lee, CC, Halladay and Grienke,and even the next step down in Marcum. It bothers me because I play in an AL-only fantasy league and I’ve been burned three times with these guys all shifting to the NL. CC made his way back as a free agent, but I thought it interesting that Lee mentioned one reason he selected Philadelphia was he liked the NL style. The interviewer, who was a former pitcher (might have been Mitch Williams on MLBN) responded, “oh, because you get the opportunity to hit?” Lee responded, “no, so I can pitch against pitchers who can’t hit and the line-up around the pitcher!” Those weren’t his exact words, but it was one of the first times I heard a MLB pitcher admit that the NL was easier and it was part of his decision-making process.

        If I was an NL GM, I’d be trying to bring a high percentage of my pitchers in from the AL. You know what you’re getting. It doesn’t work the other way around.

        If you believe someone like Keith Law, the difference is not so much the DH, but the depth of line-ups in the AL are stronger. The weaker AL teams are better than the weaker AL teams, projecting if KC was in the NL it would be a .500 or better club.

        I would have a high concern bringing an NL pitcher into the AL East, unless he’s on an elite level. A Josh Johnson, obviously, will do well. Mid-tier pitchers going from the AL to the NL should be okay, and offer much upside. A mid-tier pitcher, such as a Ricky Nolasco, moving from the NL to the AL scares me no end.

  • Kevin in Princeton

    I feel like this is pretty fair for both sides. The Brewers get the pitching they’ve long coveted and the Royals are getting some depth in a stacked farm system as well as getting rid of Betancourt. I’m sure the Yankees could have put up a decent offer, but just didn’t have the type of players Kansas City wanted.

  • Ryan

    So he says he wants to win, then goes to the Brewers. Okay…he definitely won’t have anxiety disorder problems in Milwaukee then. I went to uni there for a year and it was one of the most boring cities known to man.

    • Doug

      since it’s the NL Central, he may win

    • FIPster Doofus

      Greinke-Gallardo-Marcum + an offense that finished fourth in the NL in runs last season = a chance to win

      • http://www.riveraveblues.com Mike Axisa

        Especially now that the corpse of Trevor Hoffman is gone and they can get back to using ML relievers in big spots.

    • http://www.twitter.com/ngoral Jake LaMotta’s Left Hook

      Should have gone to the University of Wisconsin then.

  • mike c

    He couldn’t handle NY anyway. A couple bad starts and his crazy ass would go javy on us

  • It’sATrap

    I’m not happy with cashman

    • Carlosologist

      Tell me, were you one of the people playing WebMD and saying Greinke couldn’t pitch in New York because of his anxiety disorder?

      • It’sATrap

        uhh no..obviously not. I prefer to take the talent over the over exaggerated “he Can’t handlez NY cuz He Crazy”. I’m happy with the fact the reports are he didn’t even bother to make a push or discuss potential deals for Greinke even with our depleted rotation. Now what? We pin our hopes on Andy who is on the fence and insert Nova as our fifth? I’m sorry but i’m just not feeling to optimistic here.

        • It’sATrap

          *not happy

    • FIPster Doofus

      You never know what Kansas City would have wanted from New York. But it would be asinine if Cashman had an opportunity to acquire Greinke for a fair price and balked because of Greinke’s condition. I’d like to know the details of why Greinke isn’t a Yankee, but we’ll probably never find out.

  • MikeD

    If it was a fair price, I agree. If it meant stripping the farm system, then that’s another story. There is an unknown card with Greinke as it relates to SAD. There are those who don’t think it will be an issue. I’m not sure how they know this, but that’s what they believe. There are others who do think it will be an issue. I’m not sure how they know this, but that’s what they believe. Cashman certainly has to consider the potential of higher risk when it comes to Greinke, especially because the player himself has expressed some concern about NY, and his family and friends have expressed a great deal of concern about Greinke coming to NY. If Greinke bombs, and the Yankees were to trade Gardner, Montero, Banuelos and Adams, then the NY media, fans and the Steinbrenners won’t be happy.

  • Greg Davenport

    I searching for a deck of cards and cashman’s phone #. This guy is on a losing streak and since I see 4th place in the division I need a new hobby. His big deal was granderson a year ago since he’s been playing james bond in stamford. Acquisitions can be made in the press or in the dark. However cashman has been vocal in the past.My biggest fear is poor planning to date leaves us with an aging club with heavy weight contenders. Boston and detroit have prepared for war the cashman team keeps picking themselves off the canvas. Plan A,B, and feliciano is C. Right now the good news is I can change the channel. Critical players as of today are a-rod,teixeira,cano, and ……. Then there’s CC and mariiano This is not murder’s row. I didn’t put in jeter because his great days are behind him.

  • Greg Davenport

    Pena is manager june15