Feb
23

Open Thread: February 23rd Camp Notes

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Picture day! (AP Photo/Charlie Neibergall)

The latest from Spring Training

Here’s the nightly open thread. Carmelo Anthony is making his Knicks debut tonight (I think), when they face the Bucks at the Garden at 7:30 ET. That one will be on MSG. Chat about whatever, go bananas.

  • J

    Looks like we inked 27 YO Cuban SS Yadel Mujica

  • mbonzo

    Crazy proposal of the day.

    Yankees get Adam Wainwright
    Cardinals get Joba and a couple prospects.

    Cardinals can now afford Pujols and have a starter in Joba for the 2011 season.
    Yankees get Wainwright for a year and a half (2012 + 2013) and have a slight bit more leverage on CC if he wants to opt out.

    • MannyGee

      whofoots the bill for the TJS? so we w2ould pay for wainights recovery time from tommy john and give up joba in the process? pass

      • mbonzo

        Yea but you’d get Wainwright for a year and half. $27.5m total for the next 3 years. Yankees payroll is very low this year and would have no problem dishing the bill for him. Money is not the problem, in fact $27.4m for a year and a half is only $4.5m over a year of CC. The fact that the Yankees would add an ace in 2012 with that horrible market might also convince CC to not opt out. Even if he did that would leave the Yankees with money to give Wainwright an extension. Honestly, if Joba is just gonna be a reliever for his next few years with the Yankees its well worth giving him up.

        • MannyGee

          counterpoint:

          Wainright is signed through 2011, with 2 club options for 2012 & 2013. you can write off 2011 for the surgury and recovery, and you can write off 2012 as weel, as he will be shit for the season following the surgury. everyone is. Liriano took 2 years to come bac to form…

          So why not wait until the Cards decide to decline his option (maybe not the 2012 option @ 4.5M, but no way they pick up that 2013 option for 12M) and sign him off the open market then?

          And oh yeah… signing a crippled Wainright in 2011 makes zero sense, as we need a pitcher now. If Cashman is worried about jobas velocity 2 years after a shoulder injury, hes gonna be not too please with Wainright after TJS…

          • http://twitter.com/Carlosological Carlosologist

            The options became guaranteed due to him placing second in the Cy Young voting. So he’s under team control until after 2013.

            • MannyGee

              so you would trade anything with a pulse for a surgury season, a recovery season and maybe a bounceback 2013? all of that for $27.5M

              nah, still pass

              • mbonzo

                TJ surgery has insanely high full recovery rates and some pitchers even come back stronger. It’s a gamble that’ll land you one of the best pitchers in baseball for a year and a half.

                • http://twitter.com/Carlosological Carlosologist

                  And there’s a possibility you’ll sign him for more than a year and a half.

                • Ed

                  Sure, the recovery rate is great. But the first year back usually isn’t great, it’s about rebuilding strength.

                  There’s two reasons guys come back stronger from the surgery. One is they were pitching with a small tear that gradually got worse. These guys were losing velocity for a while before the surgery. The others are guys that didn’t have good workout programs. Rehab from TJ is brutal, and gets those guys into better shape than they were before. I don’t get the impression that Wainwright falls into either of those categories.

                  And as for what you’ll get out of him… you’re missing all of 2011. You’ll probably get a partial 2012 season, but he won’t be back to full strength yet. It’s usually the second season back when they return to form. So you’re looking at $27.5M for a mediocre half season and hopefully one ace season. That’s pretty expensive, especially with a cost in players on top of that.

            • Ed

              The options aren’t guaranteed. The Cy Young voting was part of the vesting requirements, but he also has to finish this season off the DL. That’s not looking likely to happen…

          • mbonzo

            Thats a good possibility considering the Cardinals finances, but I think he’d be cheaper and come with fewer years via the options.

            TJ surgery on average takes 11.6 months to go from the table to competing. I’m gonna say he’ll be effective again 16 months after. There are plenty of outliers that’ll say its longer or quicker but 16 months is longer than average and comfortable with using that number on such a gamble.

            • Dismortologist

              I’m sure the Cards have insurance on him… so would they collect ins. money if they trade him, doubt it. Could they transfer ins. $ to Yanks, doubt it also. no feasibility here.

        • Poopy Pants

          “Yankees payroll is very low this year”

          This makes me ashamed to be an American.

      • http://twitter.com/Carlosological Carlosologist

        Joba isn’t much more than a MRP making a lot of money (for his position anyway) on the Yankees. If another team sees him as a starter and is willing to give something of value up, I’d do it.

        • The Big City of Dreams

          Me too if another team values him as a starter why not trade him.

        • Castro

          You’re talking about a team that has the highest paid closer in the history of the game in Rivra, who makes $15 million, and by-far-and-away, the highest paid set-up man in Soriano, who makes $10 million. Based on that, you’re worried about the $1.3 million Joba’s making?

    • http://www.twitter.com/jordansmed JGS

      I’d do it

    • http://www.riveraveblues.com Mike Axisa

      I’d do it. I don’t see it why the Cardinals would, even if one of the prospects is Montero.

      • mbonzo

        With Wainwright out, I don’t think the Cardinals will have a choice but to take the team option on him next year. $15m. I’m assuming there plan was to give him a buy out and go with Wainwright as their ace, but now they’ll be on the book for his $15m and Wainwright’s $27.5m over the next three years. If the Cardinals were to now keep Carpenter, Wainwright, and Pujols on the payroll they will now owe $91.8m and still have to sign an outfielder, a closer, and a few relief pitchers. They also face arbitration years with Rasmus, Theriot, Schumaker, and Garcia. I don’t think they’d have enough leverage to land both Joba and Montero for Wainwright, but I think Joba and a B would be realistic.

        • mbonzo

          Sorry was talking about Carpenter. Cardinals will most likely have to take his $15m option now that Wainwright will probably miss half the 2012 season.

      • Jimmy McNulty

        I guess they wouldn’t do it because they probably want to re-sign Albert and don’t think Montero can catch.

      • camilo Gerardo

        wainwright with a busted wing for joba+Montero+? tim allen tool time ehhhhh

      • Castro

        Really? You don’t think the Cardinals would trade Wainwright now if they could bet back Montero and Joba today?

    • http://www.theyankeeu.com/author/steve-s/ Nostra-Artist

      Pass. Some guys take 2 years + to fully come back from TJ. See Brackman, Andrew and Liriano, Francisco.

      • Avi

        Interesting idea to target Wainwright for trade now. The Cards would save $6.5M if they traded him today. I wouldn’t be surprised if St Louis didn’t pick up his $9M option for 2012 (if they don’t trade him). Especially if he’s not ready till say mid season of 2012 which is at least possible.

        • http://www.theyankeeu.com/author/steve-s/ Nostra-Artist

          Creative, but why pay him 6 mil to sit on his ass? Let the Cards pick that up and then non-tender him next off season.

        • http://www.riveraveblues.com Mike Axisa

          I don’t see why the Cardinals wouldn’t pick up the option. It’s $9MM, less than half of what he’d get on the open market. He’s not old, and it’s not shoulder surgery. They’d be foolish to decline it, honestly.

  • mbonzo

    Nice to see Arod didn’t miss picture day this year.

    • MannyGee

      u see the size of that photographer goddaaaaaam… wait, why isn’t Joba in uniform, and what is he doing with that camera???

      sorry, havent heard about fat joba for a week. couldn’t let it pass… just like joba with the dessert cart!!!!

      :rimshot:

      • mbonzo

        And Arod looks really skinny in the pic above.

        • fire levine

          Joba would look skinny next to that photographer

    • Monteroisdinero

      Arod looks good-less like Aroid. I thought he missed picture day during the regular season at YS last year.

    • Bob Stone

      Arod showed up because he heard there would be popcorn.

  • Craig

    If you could have only Halladay or Maddux, who would you pick and why?

    • http://www.twitter.com/jordansmed JGS

      Maddux. Because he is better than Halladay

    • CP

      For a career? Right now?

      Unless you’re talking about right now, I’d pick Maddux and it’s not even close.

      • http://www.theyankeeu.com/author/steve-s/ Nostra-Artist

        Maddux in his prime was one of the best pitchers who ever lived. Halladay’s a terrific pitcher, but its not even close.

        • Slugger27

          how is it not even close?? career #s:

          maddux: 6.06 k/9, 1.8 bb/9, .63 hr/9
          ERA+ = 132

          halladay: 6.71 k/9, 1.9 bb/9, .77 hr/9
          ERA+ = 136

          maddux walked slightly less and gave up fewer homers… but halladay struck out more with a higher career ERA+ while pitching in the AL East facing DHs…. its most definitely close

          • http://www.riveraveblues.com Mike Axisa

            It’s not close. One did it for 5,000+ IP, the other for ~2,300 IP. Let’s see Halladay do what he’s been doing for another 12 years, then maybe they’ll be close.

            • Slugger27

              only thats not the argument. nobody asked “who had the better career” … they asked “who would you rather have”

              looking at rate stats, advanced metrics, etc, and while knowing one did it in the al east… i cant get on board with “its not close” … the truth is, unless youre heavily favoring counting stats, its damn close

              once again: career ERA+ – maddux 132, halladay 136

              • http://www.riveraveblues.com Mike Axisa

                But you’re comparing apples to oranges. You’re counting Maddux’s decline phase against him but not Halladay’s.

                When Maddux was Halladay’s age, these were his career numbers:

                6.3 K/9, 2.0 BB/9, 0.5 HR/9, 144 ERA+.

              • Castro

                Slugger27, you’re right. I don’t know how I haven’t figured this out. Madison Bumgarner with his ERA+ of 142 is a far greather pitcher than Maddux.

          • Ed

            Those Maddux numbers include his decline years. He ended his career with 6 years as a mediocre pitcher.

            If you only cover Maddux through age 36, before his sharp decline, he improves to 0.50 hr/9 and a 146 ERA+. The other numbers stay the same.

            Halladay’s still in his peak years.

          • Castro

            Oh, come on, Slugger27.

            Are you actually so dumb that you can’t figure out why Maddux is light-years ahead of Halladay?

    • http://youcantpredictbaseball.wordpress.com/ bexarama

      I’m assuming you mean career, and not for 2011. Maddux, and it isn’t close, the guy was beyond insane. He’s a top ten pitcher ever. Halladay is amazing but he’s not that.

      • Slugger27

        no idea what numbers youre looking at, but unless its pure counting stats, but its definitely close

    • http://www.riveraveblues.com Mike Axisa

      Maddux.

    • MannyGee

      greg maddux>>>roy halladay>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>mike maddux

      • MannyGee

        SB:

        >>>>> Mike Maddux….

        got cut off the screen.

    • http://www.retire21.org first name only male (formerly Mike R. – Retire 21)

      Halladay because Maddux is old and retired.

      • Craig

        Is it likely Halladay gets injured the next few years, and if you had to put $ on one Phillies P getting injured this year, who would you pick? I’d go with Oswalt, 15 day DL with the candlestick

        • http://www.retire21.org first name only male (formerly Mike R. – Retire 21)

          I’m going to say Cliff Lee in the Trainer’s Room with Back Spasms.

          Prove me wrong.

          I love Clue

    • http://www.theyankeeu.com/author/steve-s/ Nostra-Artist

      Look at Maddux’s 94/95 seasons and tell when Halladay has ever done anything close. Check out his ERA+ for some historical context.

      http://www.baseball-reference......gr01.shtml

      • Craig

        Oh I agree, don’t get me wrong, living outside of Philly though I’m subject to bandwagoners galore who say Halladay is lightyears ahead of Maddux and Lee will NEVER get injured and that the back issues are a fabrication of my pro NY attitude.

        • http://www.twitter.com/jordansmed JGS

          I’d like a link on that. As far as I know, no one has favorably compared Halladay to Maddux.

          • http://youcantpredictbaseball.wordpress.com/ bexarama

            I haven’t seen any articles or anything like that but it wouldn’t surprise me to hear people saying that. People say craaaazy things.

        • Avi

          Maddux was Mo-like.

  • http://youcantpredictbaseball.wordpress.com/ bexarama

    Alex just flat-out lost his ass.

    #bexyobservations

  • steve (different one)

    Don’t understand the gardner comment. Surely Girardi meants Gardner should be bunting for base hits more, not sacrificing. Nothing wrong with that.

    • http://www.facebook.com/cecala Joseph Cecala

      Girardi usually makes his best OBP players sac bunt.

    • http://www.riveraveblues.com Mike Axisa

      Girardi has an annoying tendency to play “by the book.” He’ll inevitably ask Gardner to sacrifice bunt at times, which is not what he should be doing.

      • Steve (different one)

        Agreed, he will.

        But I still don’t believe that is what Gardner was “practicing” today or what Girardi was referring to when he said he should add more bunting to his game.

        He obviously meant he should bunt more for hits b/c he’s the fastest guy in the league.

        Gardner doesn’t have to practice sacrifice bunts. He has to practice bunting for hits. Two different skills.

        Girardi’s tendency to sacrifice too much is unrelated to whether or not Gardner should try to bunt for hits more often.

    • Monteroisdinero

      Ridiculous for Gardy to sacrifice. He should only bunt for base hits. He cannot be doubled (essentially) on a grounder and can then steal second most of the time.

      Sac bunt-dumb

  • mustang

    The good news: I got tickets to Yankees vs. Cubs at Wrigley Field.
    The bad news: Their Bleachers tickets.

    Why do I feel that my survival rate is going to take a nose drive on June 18th?

    LOL

  • OldYanksFan

    I found this disturbing link over at Lohud:
    http://tinyurl.com/4s5zod8
    It could be the Yankees are not that concerned about Posasa’s defense, as much as they are about his health.

  • http://www.theyankeeu.com/author/steve-s/ Nostra-Artist

    No Happy birhday wishes for JR Murphy?

    • Jimmy McNulty

      I sent him a card.

  • http://twitter.com/steveh_mandaura Steve H

    I certainly think Gardner needs to become a better bunter, but I don’t want him bunting any more than now.

    • Mike HC

      same

  • Alex S

    What did Frazier butcher to get that suit?

  • Monteroisdinero

    Betances impressive with Jeter in the box. You mean his knees weren’t shaking? Captain didn’t take him deep?

    /lol

    • MannyGee

      cap’n dribbled everything to SS… good news is his GIDP’s are in mid-season form!!

  • Avi

    I’m watching a Knick game for the first time in a decade.

    • mustang

      Me too and that’s one of the many reasons that they HAD TO make this trade.

    • http://www.theyankeeu.com/author/steve-s/ Nostra-Artist

      +1

  • The Real JobaWockeeZ

    Holy shit can they make Melo’s first Knick game any more over dramatic?

    • MannyGee
      • Rey22

        +1

        I did not even click the link and I was already laughing knowing what it was.

    • Mike HC

      Did you see what Miami did when they landed their stars? To answer your question, yes.

  • Leo

    Melo didn’t get as loud of a reaction as I thought he would. Maybe the sound through the TV just sucked as it seemed he got a nice reaction.

  • http://www.theyankeeu.com/author/steve-s/ Nostra-Artist

    “It counts….and the FOUL!”

  • http://www.theyankeeu.com/author/steve-s/ Nostra-Artist

    It’s tough to take a site seriously that has Hungry-Hungry Humbero Sanchez as the Yanks #10 prospect for 2011.

    http://www.scoutingbook.com/prospects/NYY

    He hasn’t even pitched in the Yankee farm system since 2009. Last I checked, he was in Taiwan.

    • mbonzo

      Wow thats terrible.

    • http://twitter.com/steveh_mandaura Steve H

      Can’t argue with this kind of logic though:

      his fastball control and work ethic make him a viable 200 inning guy in short order.

      • http://www.theyankeeu.com/author/steve-s/ Nostra-Artist

        Oh yeah, Sanchez was Mr 200 IP.

    • NJYankeeFan

      That’s just pathetic. I wonder if Brien Taylor is in their top 20.

  • http://www.theyankeeu.com/author/steve-s/ Nostra-Artist

    As Manager Joe Girardi discussed Montero’s future on Wednesday, he offered indications that Montero will be Russell Martin’s backup. Girardi wants to study Montero’s catching abilities across full Spring Training games to see if Montero maintains defensive consistency, but he sounded enthused, not reluctant, about having Montero in the big leagues.

    “Look at what they did with Buster Posey,” said Girardi, referring to how the Giants promoted Posey from the Minor Leagues last May, made him the starter and smiled as he helped guide them to a championship.

    Girardi wasn’t predicting that Montero will supplant Martin and usher the Yankees to a World Series title, as Posey did in San Francisco. That would be a bold prediction, especially since Montero is not nearly as adept defensively as Posey. But Girardi was stressing that Montero is talented enough to be a valuable player this season, even at the age of 21.

    http://www.myyesnetwork.com/16.....or_montero

    Sounds like Jesus has a realistic shot to make the team out of camp. Breaking him in slowly at the big league level is fine, that’s the same thing they did with Posada. They had to be down on Cervelli’s defense last year, and may figure with an outstanding defender as your #1 in Martin, why not get some offense out of your backup?

    • NJYankeeFan

      I’d rather see him get 100-125 ABs in AAA to make sure he’s locked in and ready, then promote him rather than have him not play everyday with the big club.

      • http://www.theyankeeu.com/author/steve-s/ Nostra-Artist

        He addresses that:

        The Yankees must decide if Montero can help them win and also must determine if it behooves him to play part-time in the Majors instead of full-time at Triple-A. Girardi said Montero could benefit playing twice a week with the Yankees because he and Tony Pena, a former Gold Glove catcher, could tutor Montero every day.

        The more Girardi discussed Montero, the more he gave subtle signs that he liked the notion of having Montero on the team. The 21-year old is a hitting savant and a catching apprentice, but Girardi sounded amenable to on-the-job training. Girardi said “there could be enough at-bats,” for Montero in New York, which means that soon, very soon, Montero might be changing from Minor Leaguer to Major Leaguer.

    • Monteroisdinero

      I guess that 1 HR in his career with the yanks is hurting Frankie. He cannot carry Jesus’s jock at the plate. Give Jesus as much playing time in ST as possible. We know what Cervelli can do.

  • Brooklyn Ed

    http://cache.daylife.com/image.....u/x610.jpg (safe)

    Apparently Mark Teixeria decided to go gangster by going to the tanning salon, and getting tatoos on his fingers.

    /lame joke

    (that’s Andruw Jones)

  • steven
  • Accent Shallow

    Anyone applying for this job?

    I am, even though I don’t do any blogging about baseball, just lots of reading and commenting on various sites.

    Shit.

    • http://www.riveraveblues.com Mike Axisa

      Yep, I applied.

      Assuming the average baseball game is three hours long, that’s roughly 1,350 hours of baseball watching a month (3 hrs per game x 15 games per day x 30 days per month). There is only 720 hours in a 30 day month. I wonder how they expect you to watch every game.

      • Accent Shallow

        MULTIPLE TVs!

        Seriously, though, I’d be afraid of burning out halfway through the season.

      • http://www.theyankeeu.com/author/steve-s/ Nostra-Artist

        You do it the way Francesa does it. You watch MLB tonight and get all the highlights.

      • http://www.twitter.com/jordansmed JGS

        There aren’t 15 games per day though. Mondays and Thursdays both have reduced schedules, sometimes extremely reduced.

        • http://www.twitter.com/jordansmed JGS

          And that doesn’t matter. Even if there are no games at all two days a week, the 45 hours a day on the other five days alone has more hours than there are in a month. Never mind.

      • SamVa

        I hope Mike gets it for his sake.

        But for our sakes, I hope he doesn’t because I doubt, by that job description, that we would ever hear from him again.

        • Accent Shallow

          Seriously, who am I going to rely on for Yankees MiLB info if Mike’s not around?

      • MannyGee

        simple, you skip D-Backs,Pirates & Royals games

    • http://www.twitter.com/jordansmed JGS

      I’d apply if I had anything even resembling the time ::shakes fist at the USMLE:: but there were parts of the application that didn’t sit well with me.

      “Must adhere to MLB’s program guidelines regarding all content and topics of discussion” is part of the Responsibilities section, and later on they ask you to write an essay on “What will be the biggest MLB storyline of 2011? Explain why.”

      What if I think the biggest issue will be MLB’s Stone Age stance on instant replay? If there is another Bonnie Galarraga Situation that prompts widespread calls for expanded replay, would the Dreamjobber be allowed to openly criticize MLB on that?

      • http://www.theyankeeu.com/author/steve-s/ Nostra-Artist

        Yeah, you’re there to promote the sport and be ‘the ultimate fan’ not call Bud out on things that drive you batty. They’ll probably select someone based on looks and fanaticism, not having something to add to a discussion.

        • http://www.twitter.com/jordansmed JGS

          It’s going to be Alyssa Milano, isn’t it.

          • MannyGee

            yeah, or Ben Affleck

    • Accent Shallow

      I just freakin’ wrote 1000 words and they tell me they want a video!
      Argh!

  • noodles

    This is the coolest picture of ManBan:
    http://www.daylife.com/photo/0.....rk+yankees

    • Avi

      He really looks like a kid in that picture.

      • S

        he’s jacked as hell though, baby face mma fighter body

  • Craig

    Buerhle would accept a trade via MLBTR. Ring ring bananaphone……

    • Accent Shallow

      We’ll see. I think the Sox are all in at the moment.

  • Jimmy McNulty

    Interesting day, glad to see the Yankees have six top 100 BA prospects, really liked seeing Romine make it. I was surprised that Vizcaino came in so low based on my expectations for him. Wainwright might miss the season. Sad, a guy with one of the three or four best curveballs in the game might not pitch next year. With him and Strassburg the mound won’t be as exciting in the NL next year.

  • SamVa

    Couple of fantasy questions-

    Beltre- is he worth the high pick that espn has him at? Do we see the 2010 Beltre or the previous years?

    Greinke/Hanson- who has the better season?

    Posey- maintain the numbers?

    Morneau- worth it?

    Kinsler- stay healthy?

    Garza- better in the NL?

    • http://www.riveraveblues.com Mike Axisa

      I don’t know where ESPN has Beltre, but I have him sixth among 3B (Longo, Wright, Zimm, A-Rod, Youk).

      I love Tommy Hanson, but I’d take Greinke even if he was still on the Royals.

      Posey, probably not, still a top four fantasy catcher.

      Morneau, depends on the round. After the fifth or sixth, go for it.

      Kinsler, probably not, still a top five 2B/

      Yes on Garza, but not much. He’ll give up a lot of homers in Wrigley.

      • mbonzo

        From what I remember Beltre is in the upper 30′s. I’d personally take another position player at that point and wait for Casey McGehee or Pablo Sandoval. McGehee is very underrated in this draft.

      • SamVa

        Didn’t even take him into account (Youk)

        Also shortlist on very underrated players?

        • mbonzo

          Heres mine for ESPN.

          Miguel Cabrera
          Jose Reyes
          Justin Morneau
          Mat Latos
          Josh Johnson
          Matt Cain
          Corey Hart
          Colby Rasmus
          Casey McGehee
          Brett Gardner
          Matt Weiters
          Nick Swisher
          Chris Perez
          Matt Thornton

          Bounceback players that will be worth taking a chance on.
          Pablo Sandoval
          Carlos Quentin
          Grady Sizemore
          Joe Nathan
          Carlos Beltran
          Aaron Hill
          Carlos Lee
          Edinson Volquez

  • Norman

    I think that the only logical nickname for Manny Banuelos to get from RAB is The Banhammer

  • Guest

    Is it just me or did anyone else get the shivers/flashbacks after reading that Girardi thinks some of the young arms “might be able to help us this year”?

    Young, talented arms that still need seasoning best help contending ball clubs by doing one thing: throwing smoke out of the bullpen.

    Now, a lot of great starters broke into the majors by starting out in the pen, and Phil regained his mojo after his brief ’09 pen experience. (Though one could argue that perhaps the Phil bullpen experiment was relatively angst free because it was easy to view his time in the pen as temporary. Since he originally came up as a starter, it was much more difficult to pigeon hole him as a gruntin’ and fartin’ late inning reliever.)

    But the Joba debacle is just too…fresh…for me to watch Brackman, Betances, or heaven forfend, ManBan dominate out of the pen in 2011. Because if I see that, then I know what’s next. Confirmation bias will take hold and the MSM will describe them as “too valuable” as relievers to send them back to the minors to get more seasoning/stretched out for 2012. The second they inevitably struggle as a starter or take a little while to regain their stuff after an almost inevitable increased workload related injury, we will be told they can’t hack it in the starting role.

    It was a terrible, terrible movie the first time around (from beginning to end) and I am not ready to re-watch it. Hopefully the ridiculously over-stocked and expensive bullpen will perform up to expectations and the Killer B’s can be developed appropriately.