Mar
02

Greinke made his case for a Yankees trade

By

(Morry Gash/AP)

From the outset of the off-season one thing was clear: the Kansas City Royals were going to trade their ace, Zack Greinke. While Greinke didn’t officially request a trade until sometime in December, it was pretty clear that he was unhappy in Kansas City, where he had endured a number of losing seasons and was in line for at least one, and probably two more before he reached free agency. When Greinke’s request became public, the Royals moved quickly.

Having missed out on the off-season’s top free agent, Cliff Lee, the Yankees became natural suitors for Greinke. Yet there were questions about his ability to handle the pressure of New York. It was common at the time to associate Greinke’s social anxiety disorder with an inability to pitch in the big city, but it’s tough for anyone who doesn’t know Greinke to make such a determination. Instead, Greinke’s own words that gave others pause. It was widely reported that he told friends that he couldn’t play in a big market such as Boston or New York.

Once it became apparent that the Royals would grant his trade request, Greinke apparently had a change of heart. SI’s Jon Heyman tells the story. It all started at the Winter Meetings.

But when he and Yankees general manager Brian Cashman met clandestinely in Orlando (Greinke’s hometown) at an off-site location during the winter meetings, Greinke’s desperation not to endure yet another losing season in Kansas City was such that he is said to have tried to convince Cashman that he wanted to come to New York. And that he could actually thrive in New York.

However, people who were briefed on that meeting said Cashman ultimately decided that Greinke’s first thought about New York was probably correct — that it wasn’t the best spot for him. Greinke told people the day he accepted his Cy Young Award in New York City that he didn’t think he could ever live in New York, and kept telling friends the same. But as the days dwindled this winter, he made his surprise plea to Cashman to make him a Yankee.

This passage makes it appear as though the Yankees didn’t make much of an effort to acquire Greinke when the Royals got serious about trading him. Cashman came away with an opinion, based on a personal impression, and the team agreed with him. I’m not sure if it was the correct decision, but now we know the process behind it.

Greinke could end up in New York yet. The Brewers have gambled significantly on the 2011 season, and if they fall out of the race by July they might consider trading off some of their players in an attempt to rebuild. Greinke could fetch them a decent bounty, since he would have a year and a half until free agency. Again at that point, after the 2012 season, Greinke could again seek out the Yankees as suitors. He’ll be just 29 years old for the 2013 season.

It’s still more likely that we never know what could have been between Greinke and the Yankees. For some that’s fine and good. His social anxiety disorder causes enough concern that it’s not worth the money, or prospects, to obtain him. Others, though, will always wonder how the socially anxious, but fiercely competitive Greinke would have fared in New York. (For a great take on that, read Joe Posnanski’s article on Greinke from this winter.) The man put his mindset in perspective with just a few words: “It’s fun to win.” That’s what we want to hear from current and future New York Yankees.

Categories : Hot Stove League

67 Comments»

  1. Tom Zig says:

    One can only hope the Brewers fall out of contention. I would love to see the Yankees take a gamble on Greinke.

  2. Big Apple says:

    Grienke is getting a lot of press right now…it will be interesting to see how he handles more pressure this year. Milwaukee isn’t exactly the hotbed, but the expectations are high with the off season moves.

  3. bonestock94 says:

    Wow. I guess I have to trust the team’s judgment on this one.

    • steve (different one) says:

      Why? The pricetag as reported was Montero, Nunez, Betances or Banuelos, and another Warren type arm.

      If there is even a SHRED of doubt, the decision is pretty simple. That’s a TON of talent at stake.

      Passing on that doesn’t really bother me at all.

      • Big Apple says:

        agree…too much to give up for a guy who will most likely have issues pitching in NY.

        I would say that the only pitchers worth that package are King Felix and Halladay.

        I’m ready for the prospects…let see what they can do.

      • Mickey Scheister says:

        I don’t know if it’s because I’m so familiar with the Yanks prospects or because it’s reality that other teams demand a kings ransom when dealing with the Yanks and settle for what seems like spare parts from other teams. Look what the Jays wanted from the Yanks for Halladay then look at what they accepted, same with the Royals & Greinke. Is it because they feel the Yanks won’t think twice about trading prospects, is it because teams feel like they can get one over on Cash or because the minor league Yanks are household name (in my house) and I’m just a prospect lover. Look at what the Yanks gave up for Nady while the Sox gave up what exactly for more years of Bay, and the better, more proven, player from Pittsburg. I know we are quick to call Cash a ninja for the Swish deal and maybe the Grandy deal (I think it was meh). It seems like the only time a “ninja-esque” deal is done is when the Yanks take on a salary dump yet still lose decent prospects.

        • AndrewYF says:

          The Jays accepted the following prospects (BA rankings in parentheses):

          Kyle Drabek (25)
          Michal Taylor (29)
          Travis D’Arnaud (81)

          Back in the 2009-2010 offseason, that’s equivalent to something like:

          Jesus Montero (4)
          Arodis Vizcaino (69)
          Austin Jackson (76)

          As good as Halladay is, I’d rather have Montero and Granderson.

        • AndrewYF says:

          Also, what the hell are you talking about? In the Jason Bay trade, the Red Sox (among some other things) gave up Manny Ramirez, one of the best hitters in the game at the time, in order to get a lesser but easier manageable player, and they may have sacrificed a chance at back-to-back championships to do it.

          The Yankees gave up Tabata, a mercurial prospect who is almost definitely older than he says, and is now just a speedy guy with no power. They also gave up Ross Ohlendorf, a mediocre relief arm who gets groundballs. They received Nady, who provided them with solid production down the stretch in 2008, and Marte, who played a key role in winning the 2009 championship. Was it a great trade? No, not really. But none of those players save for MAYBE Ohlendorf (as the last man in the bullpen) would have a place on the Yankees today.

          Also, pretty much every single trade made is in some ways a salary dump. Swisher was one of the best trades of the past 10 years because Cashman gave up nothing and got a 4-win player in return.

          • Big Apple says:

            Olendorf had plenty of chances with the yanks and he showed that he didn’t have what it took. I clearly remember him coming in to a few games with a 5 run lead and then blowing it.

            The trade for Nady and Marte was a good one. Nady was decent and some guys get injured..what can you do. Yanks may not win in 09 without Marte.

        • steve (different one) says:

          Huh? Pretty sure the Sox traded Manny Ramirez to get Bay. Remember that guy? I know he was no Jeff Karstens, but he could hit a little.

          Also, Boston paid his entire salary. IOW, it was still a “salary dump”, just structured a little differently.

          The Ninja term referred to Cashman’s ability to be completely silent about a trade until it was done. It doesn’t refer to an ability to get teams to give away great players for non-prospects and not take on big salaries. He does operate in a 30 team market where other teams might want to compete for those types of trades.

      • bonestock94 says:

        Can’t really disagree with that.

  4. Big Apple says:

    if a player admittedly says that he doesn’t think NY is the place for him that’s all I need to know.

    cashman did the right thing.

  5. PJS says:

    I have no problem with the yanks spending the money on him, but I would hate to loose prospects (namely Jesus) on someone that has questions on whether or not he can perform in the big apple.

  6. Tank the Frank says:

    This passage makes it appear as though the Yankees didn’t make much of an effort to acquire Greinke when the Royals got serious about trading him. Cashman came away with an opinion, based on a personal impression, and the team agreed with him.

    This is what I feared was happeing all along. And it pisses me off.

    • steve (different one) says:

      Again, it was widely reported what the royals asked the yankees for. Who cares what was said at their internal meetings? the price was astronomical.

      • Big Apple says:

        sometimes the best deals are the ones that don’t happen. if the yanks traded for Lee at the deadline they probably would’ve won the series, but what a disaster that would be right now. Imagine going into this season with the same starting pitching issues but without Jesus and some of the Bs….that’s a nightmare.

        • Tom Zig says:

          We’d still have the B’s. Just wouldn’t have Jesus. We may have kept Cliff Lee too, so who knows.

          • Big Apple says:

            well, that package for Lee was pretty big…and i’m pretty sure that Lee bolts after the season. its pretty clear that he didn’t want to be in NY.

    • Jess says:

      Your head wouldn’t be on the line if Greinke implodes. You don’t trade all those prospects for a guy you have major questions about. Sorry.

      • Tank the Frank says:

        You guys are way off, I’m sorry. He had reservations but changed his mind. Ever happen to you? It happened to him. He comes back and tries to convince Cashman to make him a Yankee. What does that tell you?

        We don’t know what the price would have been. We only know the rumors and what KC actually received; which wasn’t much. If the price tag is Montero, Banuelos + then yeah… I walk away. But what a team asks for and what they receive are usually two different things.

        But the point is that I’m upset because it’s now clear the Yankees didn’t even kick the tires on this because of an anxiety disorder they likely know very little about, and one Greinke conquered four years ago.

        • Big Apple says:

          the anxiety issue has been well documented. regardless of the price its a risk and a real one at it.

          • Tank the Frank says:

            Liriano’s shoulder is a risk. Carpenter’s age and recent workload are risks. No one seems to have major reservations about trading for them if the price is right.

            But here we have Zach Greinke, who struggled with anxiety disorder, then won a CY YOUNG AWARD after overcoming that disorder, and people don’t want any part of it.

            It’s curious to me.

            • AndrewYF says:

              “No one seems to have major reservations about trading for them if the price is right.”

              Uh, sure we do. No one wants to give up Montero, Banuelos or Betances for Liriano or Carpenter BECAUSE they’re such a risk.

              People don’t want to give up premium prospects for Greinke in the same way they don’t want to give up premium prospects for Liriano or Carpenter. You’re reaching.

            • Big Apple says:

              I don’t want Carpenter and I’m leery of Liriano.

              I’d rather stick with the B’s and see what happens. Its highly likely that one of the three make it and that will give us CC (assuming he resignes) Hughes, a B and AJ…

            • Big Apple says:

              The other thing is that the Yanks finally have some promising talent in the minors and they need to develop these guys. Trading away their best talent just perpetuates the problem that has been there all through this decade. The Yanks have to get younger and the only way to do that is to bring these guys up through the system. If a few make it they will replace the older guys and then they can fill in with free agents.

        • gc says:

          What does it tell me? That he really REEAALLLLLY wanted out of Kansas City. It also tells me that like any other ballplayer at his age who has experienced some success, he wanted to cash in on a big payday while he was still worth it. And for the record, those anxiety disorders are never really conquered in as much as managed. How can anyone assume he had conquered the anxiety of a situation like playing/living in New York when it’s something he had never done. No matter how you paint it, it’s still a risk and it’s one that goes beyond the standard baseball risks dealing with any pitcher. I would have been fine if the Yankees went out and got him, but I don’t blast them to the wall for their reasoning in not pulling this particular trigger.

    • AndrewYF says:

      You know what pisses me off? The people who derided all of us who said that Greinke’s psyche was a major factor in the Yankees’ interest in him. I can’t tell you how many times people who were saying the Yankees wouldn’t trade for Greinke because he couldn’t handle New York were belittled, made fun of, and mocked.

      • Big Apple says:

        i took a few lumps for that as well. I don’t care what the price is…Grienke is a risk to pitch in NY. Hell, look at Burnett (and Vasquez last year)..the yanks already have one guy getting paid a ton that no one feels comfortable taking the mound in a game that has meaning…why make it worse.

        • Tank the Frank says:

          Yeah, you take your lumps for a reason if you think the bullshit “can’t handle New York” narrative is the reason for AJ and Javy’s struggles.

          • Big Apple says:

            AJ has some mental issues…which are ampliefied in the bronx. And I’m sure Javy heard voices all last year.

            I’d take Grienke for a spot in the back of the rotation and I wouldn’t want to give up a lot for him b/c there is a high liklihood that he won’t meet expectatiions. If he were to, then great, but the risk with him is higher than many others.

            • gc says:

              What, exactly, are AJ’s mental issues? Nobody was complaining about any mental issues when he went out to that mound in the Bronx in the World Series a couple years ago and won the biggest game of the year for the Yanks. We can talk all day long about the inconsistency in his delivery or mechanics, and he may have a more gregarious personality, but mental issues seems to be a stretch IMO.

              I think people confuse the curious peccadillos that pitchers sometimes have in this game (Mike Mussina anyone??) and, depending on how good that pitcher is, they lump it into two categories: If they pitch well, then those things are just odd little “quirks.” If they don’t pitch well, they must have some kind of mental issue and they’re a head case.

              • Big Apple says:

                AJ has all the phsycical tools to be a top pitcher in the Mlb…his problems are clearly between his ears. Every time AJ takes the mound everyone is on the edge of their seat b/c you have no idea what will happen. And often one thing will go wrong and it will result in 5 runs.

                Mussina is a bad comparison. He may have been quirky but he was alwasy consistent.

                • gc says:

                  You’ve basically proved my point. You’re confusing consistency with some sort of mental problem. Nobody doubts AJ has an inconsistency issue. You can look at his mechanics and see it clearly. The very physical nature of his delivery requires an almost impossible to repeat set of mechanics that lead to those problems. You’re saying it’s a mental issue, like he’s some sort of head case. I don’t see it that way.

                  • Big Apple says:

                    i think its both…it may start with the mechanics (physical) but then it gets worse b/c he can’t over come it and focus (mental).

                    I’ve always liked AJ…his stuff is just nasty and I wish he was on more.

          • Big Apple says:

            if you don’t think that NY adds pressure you’re full of bullshit.

      • Tank the Frank says:

        I totally agree that Greinke’s anxiety issues were a factor in why the Yankees didn’t pursue him. I understand that. I’m not upset with fans who caught on to that. I’m upset with the Yankees for doing it, and moreover, for seemingly not even considering Greinke.

        Maybe you missed the point of the article, but Greinke changed his mind and wanted to come to New York. In light of this, I think the Yankees should have taken at least a greater interest. That’s all I ask.

        • Big Apple says:

          But they did consider him and take an interest. Cashman weighed the cost in prospects and the player and made the decision.

          I don’t care if Grienke changed his mind…in fact, that to me is more telling of a guy with issues.

          Oh..wait…did I say i didn’t want to pitch in NY…I meant I did….can we sign a deal now?

        • AndrewYF says:

          “Greinke changed his mind and wanted to come to New York”

          No, he realized how desperately he wanted to get out of Kansas City and decided not to limit his options in how to make that happen.

          Clearly what’s being intimated is that Greinke just knew that the Yankees could be an interested party and wanted out of KC so badly he’d say anything to make it happen. I’m pretty sure it is you who missed the point of the article.

  7. Stuckey says:

    Yeah, but what about Derek Jeter and those ground balls?

    Keep your eyes on the prize RAB’ers. Keep your eyes on the prize…

    • Why the douche attitude?

      • Stuckey says:

        Appropriate response to what’s been two doucebag stories in consecutive days.

        Going that early and often to the ‘Jeter decline’ well is transparent its intent, regardless of how you frame it.

        • gc says:

          Uh-oh…

          “This could get messy.”
          ~Hal Steinbrenner

        • Yes. We’re douchebags for covering Derek Jeter during a spring when he’s been featured prominently.

          And what the fuck could our intent be? What, are we trying to lead a coup against Jeter? I mean, my article talked about patience and having faith that Jeter can be a .380 OBP guy. But good to know that you’re a mind reader and know our intent.

          Also, it’s not an appropriate response, because it’s in a thread about Greinke. Take it elsewhere.

          • Stuckey says:

            Joe, reread our own article. You spent the first four paragraphs justifying writing the article in the first place.

            The entire first half of the article was more excusing yourself for drawing attention to what you acknowledge wouldn’t merit any just a couple of your ago.

            I quote YOU:

            “In the current media environment, which involves constant updates, no matter how trivial, reporters have had to adapt. In years past they might not have sat in on the session, but in 2011, when Twitter updates go out to the masses instantaneously, they want to be around to observe and report. They’ve had to make adjustments.”

            That’s not even about Jeter.

            In other words, ‘SOMEONE is going to tweet every second of a batting practice session on February f-ing 28th, so I have to cover and comment on it too’. Except the other “media” tweeting it probably didn’t spend the time you did excusing themselves for it.

            As I responded at the time, you can frame it all you like and cite the fact you ended the piece on a positive notion, but I’m going to go out on a limb and say RAB has already featured numerous entries about Jeter’s 2011 and have already explored it in excrutiating detail.

            THAT article, and yesterday’s, were very clearly written in reaction to the fact he’s hit 6 or 7 ground balls the first couple of games.

            NO getting around that.

            So responding to your premise that the media HAS to adapt, I leave you with this question:

            Is anyone in the media responsible for their own content anymore, or is the fact that someone is going to do something a hall pass for your all to do the same?

            Maybe you should be leading, and not following, and simply regard Jeter’s first few spring ABs for what they are – his first few spring ABs.

            But I suspect if he hits another 2 groundballs to short this afternoon, I’ll wind up reading about it here … again.

            So delete this post and. Move it. Ban me. It’s your house and you have every right to do as you like.

            But I’d invite you to reread the first 4 paragraphs of your Monday piece again.

            If the attention Jeter’s batting practice session was getting was appropriate and justifiable, why not just blog about the batting practice session?

            Why all the meta-justification?

            • I read it right after I posted it, and I just read it again. And no, it wasn’t written with the ground balls in mind. I’ve only watched two of Jeter’s at-bats this spring, and as with all spring training games, I couldn’t care less. If you don’t believe me, that’s your MO.

              The idea was to create an analogy between reporters adapting and Jeter adapting. A few years ago, those guys would never have been around the indoor cage to watch Jeter. But their job has changed, and they’ve made adjustments. A few years ago Jeter wouldn’t be working this hard on his swing. But age has changed his body and he’s making an adjustment. I liked the juxtaposition. Apparently you did not. But that doesn’t mean you have to lash out about it.

              • Stuckey says:

                Fair enough. If you say so. But my original post in this thread was in reaction to TWO Jeter articles in consecutive days, with Ben writing in the second/yesterday, “Jeter is off to a slow start in Spring Training”.

                Really Ben? Is he?

                And I understood the analogy, and I’m responding to it, responding specifically with the idea that maybe reporters shouldn’t be huddled around a batting practice session on Feb. 28th.

                Maybe the media of the Yankees shouldn’t be using ANY excuse to write yet again about a subject matter that’s very, very, very well traveled territory.

                Let’s agree on one thing right now. The “media” ARE going to act as vultures in regards to Jeter, looking for any appearance of weakness, ready to swoop in at a moment’s notice.

                Anyone who doesn’t clear recognize is naive. He has a tough first week of the regular season, and the “media” will be asking if he’s washed up, has to be moved down the line-up, has to be moved from SS, and/or whether he will “justify” (your word) his new contract.

                And I suspect RAB will get their hands dirty along with everyone else.

                I read and regarded two pieces on the subject in consecutive days just as one of those vultures adjusting their flight path just a hair lower.

                Perhaps I’m suggesting the intelligent, capable staff of RAB should lead and not follow/react.

                And I don’t think I lashed. I made a sarcastic comment, which if experience is any accurate indicator is neither foreign nor discouraged in the comments section.

                • All right. Now we’re being two adults hashing out the differences in our points of view. This I can stand. Random sarcastic jabs in an unrelated article I cannot. Glad we can see eye-to-eye, even if we don’t agree.

                  And, on a related note, I promise not to get my hands dirty on the subject.

                  • Stuckey says:

                    Well, I’m going to take this as perhaps unspoken agreement that the media is going to descend rapidly and relentlessly on Jeter at ANY indication of weakness, and I’m going to take your word (but keep you honest about it) that you won’t be among them.

  8. Reggie C. says:

    If.Greinke wants out of Milwaukee I’d want Cashman to be willing to move any 2 arms in the system plus Sanchez to make it happen at the deadline.

    • Jess says:

      You’d trade Banuelos + Betances + Sanchez for the overrated Greinke? What psychiatric hospital are you posting from?

    • Big Apple says:

      if he wants out of milwaukee and/or the brewers falter, the price for old gringo will be a lot less…the brewers GM will have hand only b/c he’s gonna need it. Cashman will be calling the shots at that point…straight up for Kei Igawa.

    • Ted Nelson says:

      Is that a serious comment?

  9. SCT says:

    Greinke’s a great pitcher, no doubt, but somehow as a ‘club house’ guy, I see him being somewhat of a hinderance to the ‘chemistry’(I know) of the clubhouse… Swisher would give the guy a nervous breakdown, just being within two feet of him.

    Greinke’s first interview as a Yankee:

    Reporter: “So Zack, how do you feel finally being a part of a contender?”
    Zack: “Well, that Swisher guy gave me a hug, and that kind of annoyed me. Not to mention that CC fellow ate all of my Cap’n Crunch, and that was annoying. Oh, and I was throwing a bullpen earlier today and afterwards Mariano took the ball out of my glove and showed me his cutter grip, that certainly annoyed me as well.”
    Reporter: “So, it seems that you’re getting to know the team and that they’ve accepted you, that seems good, no?”
    Zack: “I’ve never been a fan of camaraderie, I’m just here to pitch, not to make friends, friends are annoying.”
    Reporter: “Ok…so, are you looking forward to the season, you guys have quite a formidable pitching staff?”
    Zack: “I don’t care for that word, formidable, don’t use it, it’s annoying me, and you’re annoying me so much to the fact that now I’m annoyed and that annoys me too. So, this annoying interview is over!”

    And scene.

    Not to make light of his disorder, but Cashman obviously just from their meeting seemed to put his amazing credentials aside, and decided to pass on him. We don;t know what KC was asking for, but if Cashman was willing to trade Montero for half a season of Cliff, why would he hold him back on a pitcher of Greinke’s talent. Unless the package started with Montero and one of the ‘B’s, and more..

  10. Greg C says:

    I have social anxiety disorder. I “know” quite a few individuals with social anxiety disorder and, like anything else in life, the extent of the issues varies. So I can’t declare that Greinke couldn’t handle pitching in New York, but I would understand if he couldn’t- even if he really wanted to. The desire ( despite uninformed reports to the contrary) is not the issue.

    As a fan, I would not want the Yankees to go after Greinke. I just know what it’s like to deal with these issues, and I’m always teetering on the brink of collapse. I think it’s very common to either just manage to cope or completely lose it. I will always root for Greinke, but I think he needs a certain environment to thrive.

  11. Big Apple says:

    i root for guys like Grienke b/c having a disorder like that makes it tougher for them to succeed…but putting a guy in a situation where the cards are stacked against him will only make it worse.

  12. coolerking101 says:

    After reading this Brewers Blog article:
    http://www.jsonline.com/blogs/.....83129.html
    I don’t know how any rational person can suggest Greinke could survive, let alone thrive in NY. Certainly sound like Greinke s dealing with some serious mental health issues.

    If he was on the Yankees, I think Greinke’s head would explode “Scanners” style after his first media session.

  13. Hurling Darvish says:

    I read somewhere that Zack doesn’t talk to anybody, even team mates. Baseball is team sport and personalities really matter. I’m glad we have moved away from acquiring productive players who have difficult personalities on this team like Randy Johnson, Gary Sheffield, Kevin Brown, Kenny Rogers, Kenny Lofton etc. Also I think personality had something to with IPK being traded as well.

    • If you go back through the annals of baseball history, you will find many, many World Series winning teams that didn’t like each other at all. You can even find them on the Yankees.

      • Big Apple says:

        it is true…only the Red Sox have players that all like each other because you have to be a class act to wear that uniform.

        I don’t really give a crap how a teammate treats anyone…he’s played to play ball and if the teams win its no skin off my sack.

    • Greg C says:

      Sigh. Honestly, this is one of the biggest reasons we just avoid talking to people in general. People with S.A. tend to be focused on doing what they can to get through the day so they can do the stuff they are supposed to do- in this case, being a productive ballplayer. It’s enough to just cope with navigating all the social stuff without needing to deal with misconceptions. It’s physcially, mentally, and emotionally draining. Then you have to deal with people who think you are an a$$hole or want to ascribe some other personality labels because you have a medical disorder. 9 times out of 10, the “not talking to people” thing is because that is distracting and takes so much more energy to deal with than most people are used to. So it takes away from what you are trying to accomplish. Some people thrive on social situations. Other don’t, and most are somewhere in the middle. Some people gain energy from social interaction, but others are completely drained by it. There’s an aspect of being introverted by nature and also the fact that even if you really want to be more social, you just can’t. We have a difficult time navigating a world where substance/production seems irrelevant when compared to social customs. Do you want a guy who can pitch or a smooth talker?

    • Ted Nelson says:

      It’s pretty hard to speculate about that kind of stuff if you don’t have inside knowledge of the locker room.

      Mike Mussina was also known as a very insular guy, and he’s still a fan favorite. Not being an extrovert is not at all the same as being an extroverted prima donna prick. Listing off a list of guys you’ve read rumors were x or y if you’ve never spent much time with them is pretty useless. Unless you spend a lot of time around these guys I’d just judge their on-field performance and any well documented off-field issues. Not their personality flaws.

      Since they just got Andruw Jones and Rafeal Soriano this offseason I’m not sure why you assume they’ve moved away from guys with perceived personality issues.

      And, yeah, chemistry tends to be related to wins as much as personalities.

  14. nsalem says:

    We will find out how sincere Greinke is about pitching for us in the fall of 2012. I am glad we did not trade for him. Entering this season I am quite satisfied we have a reasonable chance to go deep into the playoffs. Though I am disappointed we did not sign Cliff Lee it is no the end of the world. I am hopeful that we can get a surprise or two out of our pitching staff as currently constitued. If not I am confident we have the chips to make a mid season acquisition. The long road to a title is often a circuitous one. Prior to 2009 many would have scoffed at the notion of capturing the flag with 3 starters. I believe our strong bullpen and offense can make up for any SP blemishes that may in the first half.

  15. Ted Nelson says:

    I don’t really buy that the SAD was the deciding factor. Certainly it was a factor, but I think the asking price would be a bigger one. The added uncertainty lowers your expected return, so you would need the asking price to be lowered as well compared to a similar pitcher without the SAD issue.

    Say the Royals were selling Greinke as a guy who will be 50+ WAR over the next decade or so and demanding a package they think is in line with that production. The Yankees might say 50 WAR is the best case, but there’s enough uncertainty that we only expect X WAR in the most likely case.
    Plus there’s the complexity of putting a future value on prospects, where the Royals might have valued certain Brewers prospects higher and Yankees prospects lower than the Yankees. The Yankees might have refused to part with the guy(s) the Royals wanted more than Alcides Escobar and Co. I’m not a huge Escobar fan, but the guy was the #12 prospect going into 2010, and the only guys the Yankees have in that neighborhood are Jesus and Manny. Odorizzi is a former 1st who had a good season in A ball in 2010. Cain is a major league ready starting OF. And Jeffress is a major league ready reliever. I tend to think the Royals got hosed, but I can also see how they might have felt like it would take Jesus and 3 other top 10 Yankee prospects to match that offer.

    There are also some performance questions with Greinke. Certainly he’s capable of a deserved Cy Young in any given season, but his Ks were way down last season and his ERA was 4.17. He’s not a total slam dunk. Maybe the Brewers were ready to go “all in” for him (given their weak farm system) while the Yankees weren’t.

    So I think the uncertainty brought on by the SAD was a factor, but I think saying it just made Cashman unwilling to trade for Greinke in any circumstance just seems like a big oversimplification.

    • Big Apple says:

      good post…i think cash decision was based on all factors…price and the anxiety issues…AND the fact that while Grienke has had success, he hasn’t been pitching at high level for a long time.

  16. CS Yankee says:

    I’m glad he is in the NL.

    Can you even imagine if Arod stepped on his mound?…it would likely put him out of baseball and in a ward somewhere & Arod would be made the villian for doing such a “bush league” ploy.

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