ST Game Thread: Banuelos on the bump (I think)


(Getty Images/Al Bello)

Surprise! The Yankees’ game is on the televisions tonight. MLB Network sent out a release this morning that tonight’s game against the Rays in Port Charlotte will being airing live on their fine network. The game was originally going to be broadcast on a tape delay at some Mo-awful hour of the night. Here’s the starting nine…

Brett Gardner, CF
Derek Jeter, DH
Jorge Posada, 1B
Alex Rodriguez, 3B
Robbie Cano, 2B
Russell Martin, C
Ramiro Pena, SS
Eduardo Nunez, LF
Justin Maxwell, RF

Available Pitchers: Bartolo Colon, Manny Banuelos, Romulo Sanchez, Steve Garrison, Eric Wordekemper, Ryan Pope, Cory Arbiso, and Pat Venditte. Pat Venditte!

Available Position Players: Austin Romine (C), Brandon Laird (1B), Kevin Russo (2B), Doug Bernier (SS), Jorge Vazquez (3B), Jordan Parraz (LF), and Melky Mesa (CF).

Again, the game can be seen on MLB Network at its scheduled start time of 7:05pm ET. Enjoy.


  1. Brooklyn Ed says:

    Love the team I drafted late last night. It’s awesome:

    C: Victor Martinez
    1B: Adrian Gonzalez
    2B: Martin Prado
    3B: Casey McGeHee
    SS: Derek Jeter
    OF: Jayson Werth
    OF: Curtis Granderson
    OF: Nick Markakis
    UTIL: Billy Butler

    P: Roy Halladay, Tim Lincecum, Jon Lester, Matt Garza, Joakim Soria, Brian Wilson, Yovani Gallardo, Jonny Venters, Chris Sale, and Trevor CaHill.

  2. Frank O says:

    Yeah, no blackout tonite!! Probably last chance to see ManBan until he gets called up in August (iust kidding).

  3. Cult of Basebaal says:

    Pushups, Slappy.

  4. baravelli says:

    I gotta say, Jeter’s swing did look nice and crisp on that solid single through the left side of the infield.

  5. Jamie says:

    Can this be viewed online anywhere?

  6. Poopy Pants says:

    C: Mauer
    1B: Pujols
    2B: Cano
    3B: Beltre
    SS: Tulo
    OF: Werth
    OF: Crawford
    OF: Victorino
    Util: A. Gonzo, Swisher

    P: Halladay, C. Lee, King Felix, CC, Lester, Price, Buccholz, Mo, Soria, Soriano

  7. AnthonyNH says:

    Should I trade Ichiro and Russell Martin for Joe Mauer?

  8. Cy Pettitte says:

    any word on Colon’s weight loss? I thought he was supposed to be shedding some pounds

  9. Mickey Scheister says:

    Colon…with authority!

  10. Mickey Scheister says:

    His two-seam was nasty. He’s pitching with confidence, he’s no 2005 Colon, but if he throws strikes and stays healthy he has the potential to be a decent 5th starter.

  11. JobaWockeeZ says:

    Cano “stroked” that one nicely.

  12. Cy Pettitte says:

    Assuming you give Garcia and Colon about an equal chance of injury, I think I’d take Colon right now to go with Nova. He’s been pounding the zone and spotting his pitches very well, throwing hard too. I think his stuff will play better in the AL East, Garcia feels like he’d be a repeat of Javy.

  13. Wil Nieves Number 1 Fan says:

    They just said Cano didn’t have 200 hits last year. Fail.

  14. Mickey Scheister says:

    It’s odd to see Jorge at 1st and Nunez in the OF. They both look more awkward than The Situation at the Roast of Trump.

  15. Cy Pettitte says:

    3 weak ground balls for Colon

  16. Sean C says:

    C Brian McCann
    1B Albert Pujols
    2B Kelly Johnson
    3B Alex Rodriguez
    SS Derek Jeter
    OF Shin-Soo Choo
    OF Colby Rasmus
    OF Brett Gardner
    OF Denard Span
    OF Nick Swisher
    UTIL Vladimir Guerrero
    Bench: Ty Wiggington, Mike Napoli, Scott Rolen, Jesus Montero

    SP: Tim Lincecum, Justin Verlander, Matt Cain, Shaun Marcum, Brett Myers, Ricky Romero
    RP: Heath Bell, Jonathan Broxton, John Axford, Leo Nunez

    10 Team League. How’d I do?

      • Sayid J. says:

        I’d love to play in these leagues where people can get Pujols, A-Rod, Lincecum, Choo, Verlander and Cain as their top 6 picks.

        • Sean C says:

          Part of it was batshit insanity and auto-drafting. One guy took Starlin Castro with his first pick. Seriously. Joining the league was a last minute kind of thing, and I only joined because I wanted to do it again this year and two of my friends were already in the league. But that Castro pick, HORRIBLE.

  17. AnthonyNH says:

    Colon looks good. Good command and velocity. I like it.

  18. AndrewYF says:

    Yeah, I’m guessing it’s Nova and Colon. Mitre and Garcia are competing for that last spot.

  19. Mickey Scheister says:


  20. Cy Pettitte says:

    Colon is cruising, very impressive

  21. MikeD says:

    I really think Mitre is going to be toast.

  22. A-Rod definitely thought that was strike three.

  23. AnthonyNH says:

    Ha, A-Rod took a step back toward the dugout on that curveball.

  24. Slugger27 says:

    is it possible we’re starting to treat manban like sox fans/media treated casey kelly?

  25. MikeD says:

    Dewyane Staats. I rememer when he was part of the Yankees radio broadcast team during the dark days of the early 90s.. I wonder if we could arrange a trade, where we send the Rays Suzyn Waldman and get Staats back. It’s not so much because I love Staats, although he’s solid, but Waldman drives me crazy, especially coupled with Sterling.

  26. MikeD says:

    We’re going to have a beefy rotation.

  27. Wil Nieves Number 1 Fan says:

    Bartolo looks good. And it hurts so much to say that.

    • Cult of Basebaal says:


      • MikeD says:

        I think there’s some belief among Yankee fans (and I’m not saying Wil Nieves is in the group) who believe Colon’s presence will block ManBan. I’m not part of that group since even if Colon were sucking right now, ManBan would not be making the team. Mitre and Garcia would be ahead of him.

        • mustang says:

          Wow! Your telling me that people here are over hyping a young talented pitching prospect and want him up in MLB before he is ready?

          No! Not on RAB.

          • I’d say the majority of commenters understand that it’s best to give him at least another full year in the minors. Mike, Ben, and Joe have written plenty of articles stressing the need for patience. There are some who think ManBan can and should start in the majors this year but I don’t think it’s a majority by any means.

            • mustang says:

              I seen Mike, Ben and Joe’s articles which I agree and I never said it was the majority. However some commenters have the impulse control of 5 year old at Toy R Us when it comes to any Yankees prospect that shows a glimpse of talent. One would think that people would have learned from the recent past.

            • MikeD says:

              I agree. I’ve seen a few advocating Manny for the rotation, but not many.

              Most of the articles I’ve read, including ones with scout quotes, seem to all indicate Manny can use some more development time, yet I was interested to see that Klaw is not part of that group. During his last chat he seemed dismissive of the idea that Banuelos low innings last year means he couldn’t pitch all year on the MLB level.

              Not in agreement with him, but he seems to be one of the few voices saying the time is now.

          • JobaWockeeZ says:

            Yeah bash RAB when every baseball site does it. Nope just RAB amirite?

  28. Steve H says:

    Where’s Brett with the Hellboy love tonight?

  29. mustang says:

    Colon looks excellent, but they are going to have to keep him out of the Heights!…..NO SPANISH FOOD FOR YOU !

  30. mike_h says:

    DAMN Colon is lights out

  31. Cy Pettitte says:

    Nice knowin’ ya Freddy/Mitre, I think Colon locked up the 5th spot if he finishes out the 6th frame strong

  32. Andrew j. says:

    I’m at the game . Colon is dealing. Mixing his pitches well

  33. AnthonyNH says:

    what kind of slide was that brett?

  34. Monteroisdinero says:

    A run on speed. Gardy and melky. nice.

  35. Monteroisdinero says:

    A splash of Colon feels good tonight folks. I like any pitcher who throws a 2-0 changeup for strikes.

  36. Cy Pettitte says:

    well that was fun for 5 1/3 innings, lol

  37. mustang says:

    Nice finish for Colon minus the HR, but good enough.

    Welcome to Yankees Mr. Colon.

    Mo help us !

    • Monteroisdinero says:

      No Colectomy!

    • NC Saint says:

      As one of the many, many pitchers who deserved the Cy Young more than Bartolo Colon in 2005, I don’t think Mo will help us with this particular catastrophe. This fat albatross will find a way to hurt us.

  38. Cy Pettitte says:

    62 pitches 50 strikes wow

  39. Yep, clearly Banuelos has nothing left to learn in the minors.

    • JobaWockeeZ says:

      I don’t think one pitch adds anything to either argument however. I believe he should be in the minors too but it was one mistake.

      • That was mostly directed to that one insane guy who thought a sample size of one at-bat against Youkilis was enough to justify him being in the majors.

        • JobaWockeeZ says:

          Wow I can’t detect and make anything that’s not serious anymore.


        • Monteroisdinero says:

          Actually it was a 3-2 changeup with men on base that was impressive. A 2-0 fastball to a HR hitter/Yankee killa Dan Johnson not nearly terrible.

          • Steve H says:

            One singular pitch, either good or bad, never means anything about whether a guy is major league ready or not and it’s insane to suggest otherwise.

            • Ultimate Yankee Warrior (James) says:

              How many 20 year olds throw that pitch in that situation? That’s what made it eye opening.

              • Steve H says:

                Any 20 year old that has a catcher call the pitch.

                And the situation? Seriously, a spring training at-bat is a “situation?” Wow.

                • Ultimate Yankee Warrior (James) says:

                  BS. No catcher is calling that.

                  Yes, that situation – absolutely – men on-base, one of the best hitters in the game at the plate, historic rivals. Yes. A Situation. Not The Situation. A Situation.

                  • Mike Axisa says:

                    Yes, that situation – absolutely – men on-base, one of the best hitters in the game at the plate, historic rivals in a Spring Training game.

                    You keep leaving that part out.

                    • Ultimate Yankee Warrior (James) says:

                      Like the kid knew the difference? Puh-leeeze. He had something to prove, and did.

                      And what, no threat to ban someone for calling me “insane”?

                      All the cheerleaders gather round for a team photo! You all look so cute in your miniskirts! Like little dolls!

                    • Mike Axisa says:

                      They didn’t call you insane, they called the idea of judging a player on one pitch insane.

                    • Maybe he thought “Hm, this is an ST game. There’s no repercussions if this relatively ballsy 3-2 changeup goes awry, so I’m going to work on it.”

                    • Ultimate Yankee Warrior (James) says:

                      Reading is fundamental:

                      “that one insane guy”

                      The modifier is on “guy”.

                    • Oh and that’s assuming the pitcher/catcher are calling the game, which they probably aren’t.

                    • Ultimate Yankee Warrior (James) says:

                      Sure, Matt, a kid who sends every spare dollar home to his parents is thinking “Yeah, I have nothing to lose on national television against our biggest rivals in my chance to prove myself”. Sure.

                    • Mike Axisa says:

                      One singular pitch, either good or bad, never means anything about whether a guy is major league ready or not and it’s insane to suggest otherwise.

                      What are you talking about?

                    • Mike Axisa says:

                      Unless you have indisputable evidence that Banuelos sends every spare dollar home, I would probably refrain from saying he does it.

                    • The game was on national TV? Cool. It was against the Sox and most of their real lineup? Awesome. Does the game matter in the least? Not at all. Does Banuelos have something to prove? Sure, but by the time that pitch was thrown, Cashman had made it absolutely clear that both Banuelos and Betances were starting the year in AA.

                  • Not sure if serious.

                  • Ultimate Yankee Warrior (James) says:

                    Mike see:


                    And it was widely reported he does. Mo even commented on it.

        • Ultimate Yankee Warrior (James) says:

          Who meeeeeeeee?

          Rah, rah, RAB! You can do it, Mike. Gooooooo Team! The pigtails look cute, at east.

          Dude, it was one pitch. And he came back to strike out Upton. Ain’t nothing to be ashamed of.

          • Steve H says:

            Dude, it was one pitch.

            Just so I get this straight, one pitch that you think supports your argument is monumental, one pitch that hurts it, is “just one pitch.”

          • Pretty much what Steve said. You can’t act like a successful sequence to Youkilis is “proof” that he’s ready for the Show, and then turn around and dismiss a homer as “just one pitch”. Your argument falls apart when you don’t judge the evidence equally.

            No one is saying the kid doesn’t have great stuff. But he still has things to learn and he should start in the minors.

            • Ultimate Yankee Warrior (James) says:

              You just blindly say “things to learn” like you somehow know better. Funny.

              A fastball on a 2-0 count with no one on-base is very different from a 3-2 changeup with men on-base. Big. Difference.

              I’ll win this argument when the kid makes it to the Show and shows he’s legit after dominating the minors. I’m patient.

              • This coming from the guy who has seen all he needs to see in a dozen spring training innings and “knows” Manny is ready. How am I supposed to take this comment seriously?

                And I’m patient too. That’s why I want the kid to put in his work in AA/AAA this year and be ready to come up and dominate in 2012 like his development path would appear to indicate he’s in-line for. If you really were patient you wouldn’t be so hell-bent on saying he’s ready now.

                • Ultimate Yankee Warrior (James) says:

                  Scouts who know better – Law and Goldstein – say he’s ready. Some are just more vocal about it than others.

                  The problem with your argument is upper level innings have no correlation with a pitcher’s career. None. He’s simply wasting his bullets for no reason other than conservatism. Given the state of the team, that’s disgusting. Not as bad as Joba, but bad nonetheless.

                  I’m hellbent because they Yankees are thinking of carrying Garcia and Colon. It’s fine. I’ll be right soon enough. When Manny dominates for the next two months I won’t be alone either.

                  • Moshe Mandel says:

                    “The problem with your argument is upper level innings have no correlation with a pitcher’s career. None.”

                    No, that’s incorrect. You’ve taken a study that says no such thing and assume you can throw it around and no one will call you on it. But the study is not sufficient evidence to support your point.

                    • Ultimate Yankee Warrior (James) says:

                      30 years of data. No correlation.

                      Correct me, then. Problem is, you can’t. So dig into the numbers yourself and show some, any, correlation.

                      Good luck with that.

                    • Moshe Mandel says:

                      I can. I’ve read the study a number of times. You might want to look at the variables studied. There is no pure correlation between innings and results. The problem is, the study doesn’t adjust for one vital variable: talent. That variable creates a major selection bias problem, in that the better the player, the fewer innings he is likely to have, and the better results he will have. The fact that there is zero correlation shown instead of a negative correlation suggests that there actually IS a connection between innings at those levels and results, enough so that it “covers up” the selection bias.

                    • Ultimate Yankee Warrior (James) says:

                      Good luck quantifying and adjusting for “talent”.

                      Somehow I don’t think you understand the difference between a correlation of zero and one of -1. Try again.

                    • Moshe Mandel says:

                      You missed the point. We know talent impacts this equation. The fact that we can’t comprehensively measure it just means we can’t figure out exactly how much it impacts it. But to ignore it and conclude that there is no correlation is flat out wrong and a misuse of the data. You can keep saying it, but it does not make it any less wrong.

                      As for zero correlation, I know exactly what I’m talking about. But keep trying to move the focus away from the fact that you have not refuted my point. As I said, the selection bias would actually create a situation where you would expect to see pitchers with more innings at the higher minors to be WORSE than those with fewer innings, because those with fewer innings tend to be more talented. The fact that there is no strong correlation either way suggests the bias is being corrected by some sort of benefit that comes from spending time at the higher levels, likely development.

                  • I Voted 4 Kodos says:

                    Scouts who know better – Law and Goldstein – say he’s ready. Some are just more vocal about it than others.

                    The Yankees have scouts who know better, too. In fact, their scouts probably know him better than anyone, including the all might Law and Goldstein. They don’t think he’s ready. Why do you ignore this fact?

                    • Ultimate Yankee Warrior (James) says:

                      Who said those scouts are saying something different? But actually, I think they are saying his stuff is good enough. That’s why he’s gotten such a long look this Spring. The problem is with the GM. He’s never developed a pitching prospect into an average major league starter. It doesn’t help that he keeps stacking the rotation with utter trash year after year. The one year he didn’t, and the kids got hurt, he thinks will happen every year. That’s why they got Vazquez last year instead of giving Joba his proper slot. How’d that work out again?

                  • Didn’t Law say Banuelos COULD stat in ML right? Doesn’t mean Law thinks he should start in ML.

              • MikeD says:

                You can’t win the “argument.” I didn’t realize there was an argument, or that the discussion was about you “winning.” (Is that you, Charlie?). Under your black-and-white definition, the only way you can win is for him to make the MLB roster now and pitch well in the MLB now. That’s not going to happen.

                • Ultimate Yankee Warrior (James) says:

                  Sorry, but he’ll:

                  a) Dominate AA
                  b) Dominate AAA
                  c) Struggle, by comparison, as a major leaguer

                  There’s nothing left for him to learn. He’ll prove that. Watch.

                  • Ultimate Yankee Warrior (James) says:

                    nothing left to learn in the minors.

                    • Mike Axisa says:

                      Says you. How many breaking balls did he throw to lefties tonight, or in camp overall? How many were actual strikes?

                    • AnthonyNH says:

                      He’s 19 and he hasn’t had many innings in the minors. Your claim that he has nothing left to learn in the minors has no basis in fact.

                    • Ultimate Yankee Warrior (James) says:

                      We’ll, see won’t we?

                      No interest in banning the guy, though, huh? I understand. Your cheerleading squad looks too sparkly to start keeping them in line.


                      P.s. Mo also called him the best pitching prospect he’s ever seen. Nah, he so crazy!

                    • Mike Axisa says:

                      You should stop throwing accusations around. I’ve already spoken to him outside of RAB about that.

                      Also, I couldn’t care less what Mo thinks about any player. If there’s one thing that’s been proven time and time again in sports, it’s that players are idiots. Pretty much all of them.

                    • Ultimate Yankee Warrior (James) says:

                      If you warned him publicly, like you did with me, then I would have no complaint. In fact, I probably would be watching TV right now. But when I check in and someone is obviously calling me “insane” then yes, I’m going to fight for my right to par-tay.

                      Mo gets special status in my book. Maybe not yours, but in mine he does.

                    • bexarama says:

                      Mo thinks Joba should be in the bullpen.

                    • JGS says:

                      Also, I can’t think of anyone in baseball less qualified than Mo to judge a pitching prospect. I love the guy, but his approach would fail miserably in 99.99999999% of all pitchers.

                    • Mariano Rivera is paid to: play baseball.

                      Mariano Rivera is not paid to: Evaluate pitching talent.

                    • Ultimate Yankee Warrior (James) says:

                      How dare you all besmirch the Great Mariano. Have you no shame?

                      It doesn’t matter. The kid has the stuff to be a major leaguer right now. Prominent talent evaluators agree. The Yankees need a better arm at the back of the rotation. And there’s nothing to be gained from the high minors.

                      It’s fine. With each passing suckfest from Colon and Garcia, and dominance from Manny, many more will join my side. All the pom pom’s on the side of the road will be like a sad vigil to the wasted opinions of conservatism and convention.

                      And I’ll laugh.

                    • We all have a special place for Mo; hell, he’s commonly referred to as a deity here. But, again, that’s for his pitching skill, not his talent evaluation skill. Is it cool that Mo said all that good stuff about Manny? Sure. Does/should it hold a lot of weight? No, not really.

                  • Even if I accept that he’s got nothing left to learn in the minors, I can’t yet say that he’s ready to start in the Majors since he hasn’t built up enough innings to be ready for a full season.

                    • Ultimate Yankee Warrior (James) says:

                      He’s ready for 150 IP. That’s a 5th starter at 6 innings per 25 starts.

                      I’d love to see another team with southpaw in the 5th slot throwing 94 with a sick change.

                    • I’m not sure if he is, even if we go by the 109 he pitched in ’09. I’m not sure if the Yankees are comfortable bumping his innings up that much after he missed the beginning of last season.

                    • Ultimate Yankee Warrior (James) says:

                      The Yankees don’t know how to develop pitching. They get the talent to sail through the low minors then squander it when it reaches the majors. Joba is the first chalk outline. Hughes is about to be the second.

                    • So the strategy of rushing Chamberlain (better prospect than Banuelos) up through the minors didn’t work, but it’ll work with Banuelos..? Is that what you’re saying?

                    • Ultimate Yankee Warrior (James) says:

                      They changed Joba’s role how many times? Even then he was succeeding as a starter until they did it again.

                    • This argument isn’t about a role change, it’s about time in the minors. You’ll get no argument here that they’ve botched Joba’s development irreparably, but part of that stems from not only the role change, but the impatience that disallowed him to build up innings properly before polishing the rough edges in the majors.

                    • Ultimate Yankee Warrior (James) says:

                      Joba was ready. I highly doubt more mL was going to change that. He needed to face major league hitters as a starter and for a few seasons. He didn’t even get one.

                    • I agree that he needed more time to develop as a starter in the Majors and shouldn’t have been given just the one season and what not. But, for his development’s sake, he should’ve been allowed to build innings in the minors. It has nothing to do with performance, he would’ve been kicking ass and taking names down there like he was before the 9/07 call up, but more to do with building up the endurance to pitch 150+ innings w/o also having to refine his secondary pitches against real hitters at the same time.

                    • Ultimate Yankee Warrior (James) says:

                      Sorry, but I don’t see how “building innings” helps. You can only refine pitches against guys who can hit or foul off the good stuff. That’s not the minors. Joba crushed the minors.

                    • If you don’t see how building the strength to pitch the innings necessary to start in the Majors is important, then there is just no way this conversation can continue.

                    • Ultimate Yankee Warrior (James) says:

                      Building strength? He threw 118 innings a Nebraska when her was 19 years old.

                    • Mike Axisa says:

                      Yeah, against a bunch of kids that are accountants and engineers and copy writers and not baseball players right now. College baseball is very, very different than professional baseball.

  40. Cy Pettitte says:

    no bueno

  41. Jenny says:

    Dan Johnson yankee killa

  42. Mickey Scheister says:

    Cut this bum! Number 92…still with the big club…boo!!

  43. Stratman9652 says:

    I was just thinking “Oh Dan Johnson isn’t he a Certified Yankee Killer?” Yes, Yes he is.

  44. I Voted 4 Kodos says:

    How was Colon’s velocity tonight?

  45. Sean C says:

    Nice recovery by ManBan there.

    • Ultimate Yankee Warrior (James) says:

      That’s a major leaguer right there. But nah, let’s stick him down in AA just because we can’t ever think a bit differently in Yankeeland.

      It’s much better to live by convention that says 89-91 mph from *experienced* righties are going to get the job done. Sure.

      • Sayid J. says:

        It’s much better to live by convention that says 89-91 mph from *experienced* righties are going to get the job done. Sure.

        There’s a reason it’s convention.

      • MikeD says:

        Your major leaguer hasn’t looked quite so sharp tonight.

        • Ultimate Yankee Warrior (James) says:

          He’s given up 2 runs in 9.2 innings this Spring with 11 Ks and 4 BBs. I’ll take that from a lefty throwing 94 with a sick change any day of the week and twice for double headers.

          • Well, at least you have that huge sample size in meaningful games on your side.

            • Ultimate Yankee Warrior (James) says:

              It’s about stuff. And I’ll be laughing all season long. Isn’t he the Watch guy? Heh. A constant reminder that I was right. I’ll take that, thanks.

              Meanwhile, I’m soooooo looking forward to Colon and Garcia in Yankee Stadium. Dem’s some fireworks!

              • Mike Axisa says:

                You’re looking forward to seeing two players on the Yankees fail?

                • Ultimate Yankee Warrior (James) says:

                  They’ve made their money and ate the farm. I have no qualms about them failing. It’s certainly not the same as wishing ill on a kid who send his meager pay home to his parents.

                  Why? You were cheering hard for Sir Sidney?

                  • Mike Axisa says:

                    You were cheering hard for Sir Sidney?

                    You bet your ass I was. I hated him, but I wanted him to pitch well because that meant good things for the Yankees.

                    Hoping Garcia and Colon fail so a 20-year-old kid can be throwing into the middle of the race in the AL East is mind boggling.

                    • Ultimate Yankee Warrior (James) says:

                      I’ve resigned myself to reality. It’s much easier that way.

                    • Mike Axisa says:

                      You’ve resigned yourself to your reality. Let’s just leave it here, because we’ve had this conversation every day for the past week and it’s gotten up nowhere.

                    • Ultimate Yankee Warrior (James) says:

                      And you to yours, but then you have have your cheerleaders. We’ll see who’s right. Unfortunately for you, you’ll be hearing much more about Manny as folks slowly come over to my side. His performance against weak AA hitters, and the Yankee inability to address the back of the rotation, leave that as the most likely outcome.

                    • Ultimate Yankee Warrior (James) says:

                      And hoping a poor 20 year old has his ass handed to him is mind *blowing*. You really won’t retract that thought, will you?

                      Fo’ shame.

                    • Mike Axisa says:

                      Nope, I still want to see how he bounces back after struggling for a while. The world isn’t fair, 20-year-olds get their asses kicked by life all the time.

                      By saying you want him in the bigs right now, you’re basically asking for the kid to get his brains beat in. At least I want it to happen in a setting that won’t cost the Yankees games.

                    • And hoping a poor 20 year old has his ass handed to him is mind *blowing*. You really won’t retract that thought, will you?

                      I can’t tell if you’re being obtuse on purpose or if you really don’t get why Mike said that.

                    • Ultimate Yankee Warrior (James) says:

                      Mike -

                      Who says he’s going to get his brains beat in? This is not Chase Wright we’re talking about. Sheesh, it’s like you’re his parent or something. Get over yourself. The kid is not going to learn by dominating AA. Did any of the “Big Three” learn that way? Did it matter?


                      The problem is saying the kid needs to learn from adversity while ignoring the fact that AA hitters aren’t capable of providing that adversity. If they can hit 94 from the left side, and off that change, they belong in the majors. They’d be hitting the best lefties in the game.

                    • Mike Axisa says:

                      There’s no guarantee he’ll get hit around, of course. But that’s no reason to skip him a level. You can’t assume anything, especially greatness.

                  • bexarama says:

                    [Garcia and Colon]‘ve made their money and ate the farm. I have no qualms about them failing.

                    You should, it means the team you root for is probably doing worse.

                    • Ultimate Yankee Warrior (James) says:

                      Because of the decisions they’ve made. Their third or fourth best starter will be pitching middle relief.

                      Their next best starter will be dominating AA.

                      Colon and Garcia are Yankee creations at this point. When Sir Sidney had no where else to go, Cashman found room for him – twice. Where is he now?

                    • bexarama says:

                      Because of the decisions they’ve made.

                      I’m not happy with the decisions this team makes all the time. I didn’t like AJ’s contract, didn’t like signing Soriano, don’t like putting Joba in the bullpen at all. But I hope AJ kills it. Same with Soriano. I hope Joba excels wherever they put him. I’m not cutting off my nose to spite my face, not like I have any power at all over how the team does. I just think it’s silly to root against anyone actually on the team. I’d rather the Yankees do well than my thoughts on anything the team is doing be ~right, particularly.

                      Colon and Garcia are Yankee creations at this point.
                      Not sure what this means.

                    • Ultimate Yankee Warrior (James) says:

                      “I just think it’s silly to root against anyone actually on the team. I’d rather the Yankees do well than my thoughts on anything the team is doing be ~right, particularly.”

                      It’s not a matter of rooting. It’s a matter of preparing myself for the eventuality. Righties with fly ball tendencies that sit 89-91 are not long in Yankee Stadium.

                      “Not sure what this means.”

                      No other team was stepping up to give them major league deals. Like Sir Sidney before them. Where is he now?

                    • Mike Axisa says:

                      The Yankees didn’t give them big league deals either. And how cares about Sidney Ponson, he’s irrelevant to this discussion. Why not bring up Aaron Small? Same situation, but he he doesn’t fit your narrative.

                    • Ultimate Yankee Warrior (James) says:

                      Aaron Small was a retread? No, he was a flash in the pan.

          • MikeD says:

            Good, you’re learning. You now understand small sample size, so hopefully you won’t try using them again.

            • Ultimate Yankee Warrior (James) says:

              You mean like a 30 year sample size showing that experience in the upper minors has no correlation with major league performance? Yeah, I like that sample size.

              • thumper says:

                Please stop. I would suggest you go enroll in a statistics course immediately. When you can come back and rationally explain the differences between causation, correlation, confounding variables, and bias, then we can have a legimate discussion but currently, the conclusion of that study is as follows:

                rudimentary baseball analysis

                Your head

                Currently, you’re bantering around a false conclusion based upon the data, and that’s losing you respect faster than your constant squabbling with every post mildly related to banny.
                /end rant

              • Ultimate Yankee Warrior (James) says:

                Hey Rabbit,

                Why don’t you try contributing something original? Textbook keywords from Stats 101 ain’t that.


                • hogsmog says:

                  Why don’t you try to contribute something original, besides citing that ONE, SINGLE article that multiple people have pointed out to be trash.

                • thumper says:

                  I’m not getting into a war of words with you. Thought I’d just offer a suggestion so you could expand your mind/knowledge without continually embarrassing yourself so thoroughly. You can call them “stats 101 key words” but you’re missing the concepts they represent (add retrospective study to your homework assignment tonight too. you might find it closely related to concepts that are often utilized in case-control studies), but last week and tonight people have refuted your gross misinterpretation of the article and contortion of facts. You’re just not listening (which you have every right to do, but you do so at the sole detriment of yourself).

              • MikeD says:

                Hopefully you’re not referring the flawed Jaffe posting.

      • That’s a major leaguer right there

        Oh come on. You’re just trolling with this now, right?

        • Mike Axisa says:

          Don’t even bother anymore. It’s gotten incredibly tiresome, day after day.

          • Ultimate Yankee Warrior (James) says:

            Like it’s tiresome for you and your cheerleaders to assume there’s only one reality. I mean, go wish the kid who sends money home to his parents has his ass handed to him. That’s so much better than my harping, Mike.

            • hogsmog says:

              So you root against Colon, who sends money back to the Dominican after living in a house with no running water or electricity (

              And regardless of the reason, leaving Manny in AAA is not even CLOSE to wishing he “has his ass handed to him”. Are you even paying attention to what you’re saying?

            • AndrewYF says:

              Nope, you’re just being tiresome all by your lonesome.

              You’ve based your ENTIRE argument around your own misinterpretation of ONE article citing ONE study. That is the entirety of your argument.

              And it’s sad.

              What may be even sadder is that I can point to ANOTHER study that completely ends whatever argument you think you have, simply by offering a competing point of view and some fun statistics we can perhaps misuse to our advantage!


              Salient point: “Do the math: of the 20 pitchers since 1971 who threw at least 199 major league innings before age 22, only 15% went on to have great careers. 60% of these pitchers showed a significant early career drop in durability and effectiveness. As Wright himself wrote in his Hardball Times article, the evidence here is “overwhelming”: young pitchers need to be handled with exceptional care.”

              Now, going by your own (awful) sense of logic, and only going by this article and the statistics it puts in front of us, I think we can all say without a doubt that placing Banuelos in the major leagues is the stupidest thing the Yankees could do. In fact, the Yankees should just keep him in the minor leagues until he’s 22!

              (Now, since you’ve proven yourself to be inhumanly dense, I will try and spell it out for you. I am being facetious in saying this. I am mocking your own stupid reliance on one single article, misinterpreting one of its findings as indisputable fact. Please, PLEASE, stop.)

              Now that’s out of the way: everyone, rejoice. The latest major irritant on the blog (who, interestingly, might just qualify for the single-male-name poster rule), perhaps the greatest minor annoyance since Bo himself rode off into the sunset, has ended.

      • AnthonyNH says:

        Yes, absolutely. Let’s gamble with our best pitching prospect instead of playing it safe. Solid idea.

        • Ultimate Yankee Warrior (James) says:

          Gamble what? You mean like how they played it safe with the middle reliever and the home run machine?

          • Mike Axisa says:

            I love that you’re contradicting yourself without realizing it. How old was Hughes when he broke in? Basically Banuelos’ age. The last thing they did with Hughes was play it safe, but keep distorting reality to fit your narrative.

            • Ultimate Yankee Warrior (James) says:

              Puh-leeze. They left him in the minors all year long when he was 20 even though he was crushing AA and with nothing left to prove. Then they babied him for three more years. And it didn’t keep him healthy, did it? He certainly shouldn’t have been in the pen in 2009.

              You’re proving my point, tough guy. The only place Hughes could learn is in the majors. And he’s only had one full year as a starter. Only two months of that year was successful. Joba hammers the point home. And just as he started to show he was learning, they banished him to the pen.

          • AnthonyNH says:

            Bringing him up now is more of a gamble with his confidence than his physical limitations. If he totally bombs at the big league level, it’s a step in the wrong direction. Bringing him up now is desperate.

            • Ultimate Yankee Warrior (James) says:

              Ummm, no. Another conventional argument that can’t be disproved so it sticks around.

              If this kid is that fragile, he’ll never succeed in the Bronx. Never. Personality is well-established by age 20.

              It’s not desperate when all he’s going to do is dominate in the minors. His stuff is too good.

              • Isaac says:

                “There have been 17 pitchers this decade to debut before 21. All of them pitched 100+ innings the year before and they averaged 140.”

                -Prominent baseball evaluator Kevin Goldstein

                • Ultimate Yankee Warrior (James) says:

                  You do realize that wasn’t Anthony’s point, right?

                  As to Goldstein’s, he didn’t exactly add up all of Manny’s innings, did he?

                  • Isaac says:

                    You made an earlier point that scouts think Manny is ready, then completely avoided the main part of the article-which is about building up innings. Do you really believe that this kid is farther along than Sabathia, or Porcello or Bonderman or Felix when they were his age? His arm simply needs to throw more pitches before he can be ready for a full season. It’s pretty simple.

                    • Ultimate Yankee Warrior (James) says:

                      Except he’s going to throw the same number of pitches wherever he lands. I’d rather it be with the team that actually needs them.

              • AndrewYF says:

                “Personality is well-established by age 20.”

                I assume you have an psychology article that you completely misinterpreted in order to back you up on this?

          • The Big City of Dreams says:

            home run machine lol that’s harsh

            • Ultimate Yankee Warrior (James) says:

              The kid gave up 14 dingers in his last 75 innings of 2010. If that were Joba he’d be shipped to Pittsburgh. If it were a veteran, Cashman would have traded for him.

              • Mike Axisa says:

                In a shocking turn of events, those 75 innings came right after he eclipsed his innings total from the previous year. If you’re writing him off after a bad second half, then I don’t know what to tell you. You’re following the wrong sport then.

                • Ultimate Yankee Warrior (James) says:

                  No, I’m writing him off based on his inability to throw a third pitch. The homers are a consequence of that. If he finds that pitch, he’ll be above average. If he doesn’t, he won’t. It’s really that simple. Now, given all of the time he’s had, especially with the babying, he hasn’t been forced to learn and rely on that pitch. We’ll see if he finally gets it.

                  • NJYankeeFan says:

                    I think breaking a pitcher in as a reliever sometimes ends up being detrimental to their development because it allows to them to succeed while only using their best 1-2 pitches. They also never learn how to get the same batter out 3-4 times in a game.
                    Hughes however is only 25 years old and I think he’s hardly a finished product at this point. He probably will continue to develop for another 2-3 years in fact.

                  • S says:

                    Hughes has 4 pitches

                    1 is the neglected changeup

                    the others are the cutter, 4 seamer, and the knuckle curve

              • The Big City of Dreams says:

                You’re on a roll tonight. I can tell how passionately you feel about this.

  46. Engelbert says:

    Just turned off the game to watch new Justified, saw a commercial for some Queen Latifah basketball movie and I couldve sworn it was Bartolo Colon in a dress.

  47. JobaWockeeZ says:

    Oh Perelta, the other extreme flyball reliever that didn’t cost a draft pick to sign.

    Good sign by the Rays.

  48. Monteroisdinero says:

    How long has it been since MannyBanny’s last outing?

  49. Stratman9652 says:

    First 15,000 fans recieve a Evan Longoria Gold Glove trophy. What will they do with the 14,000 they have left?

  50. GotJesus says:

    I’m sure its convention that’s keeping ManBan from the Majors and not the fact that he he threw less than 90 innings in the minors last year…

  51. Nemesis says:

    Montero should go with the pants low look looks like a better hitter that way. Yea it said it…..

  52. Cult of Basebaal says:

    Tampa Bay announcers uncomfortably sharing a homo-erotic Lady and the Tramp moment … aw-kward!

  53. NC Saint says:

    Holy ish, ManBan facing a guy from my high school class. That’s how you spring training.

  54. dennis says:

    manny doesnt throw his curve to lefties. Thats what makes left on left hard the breaking ball.

  55. That Laird swing has to go down as one of the ugliest of ST, no?

  56. JobaWockeeZ says:

    Is anyone interested in a fantasy league that takes out traditionalist states and uses OBP, SLG, OPS, TB, etc for a more lifelike game on Yahoo?

    I was thinking of starting one up.

  57. Accent Shallow says:

    I don’t watch ST games.

    How does Banuelos’ stuff look?

    (Also, should there be a tilde?)

  58. Xstar7 says:

    Thumbs up if Bartolo Colon reminds you of Andre the Giant.

  59. bonestock94 says:

    Since Garcia and Colon look decent this spring, I want them as 4 + 5. Just run them into the ground rather than lose one and go with Nova in March. Right?

    • NJYankeeFan says:

      Wrong. Best pitchers need to pitch the most innings and right now that means Nova and Colon for 4 and 5 with Garcia in the pens waiting for someone to fail and Mitre on a donkey back to MeHEco.

      • Um, Serigo Mitre is American.

      • Accent Shallow says:

        Ivan Nova was born in the Dominican Republic
        Bartolo Colon was born in the Dominican Republic
        Freddy Garcia was born in Venezuela
        Sergio Mitre was born in California, which, last I checked, was not part of Mexico
        Manny Banuelos was born in Mexico, but last I heard, he was going to Trenton, Scranton, or (maybe) New York, not Mexico.

        (Personally, I’d rather go to Mexico than Trenton, but I don’t have much of a fastball)

      • bonestock94 says:

        Its not like Nova is a proven entity in the bigs. Plus if either Colon or Garcia bomb out, then you cut them and bring up Nova. If theres any value to be extracted, they Yankees should use it before cutting them lose. IMO of course.

  60. The Big City of Dreams says:

    Ultimate Yankee Warrior (James) says:

    The Yankees don’t know how to develop pitching. They get the talent to sail through the low minors then squander it when it reaches the majors. Joba is the first chalk outline. Hughes is about to be the second.


    You have a point about that they do need to do a better job when it comes to implementing pitchers onto the big league level. Now before someone takes that the wrong way it doesn’t mean the Yanks are dumb or morons but let’s be honest they have made their fair share of mistakes.

    • bonestock94 says:

      Well, from the quote, I don’t see any hint that Hughes’ development has been botched. What exactly is going wrong there? Joba seems like a disaster. What other noteworthy pitching prospects have been screwed up really? The farm was pretty barren for a while.

      • bexarama says:

        Wang? But Wang being screwed up wasn’t because of anything to do with his development

        • AndrewYF says:

          Wang would have learned to run the bases if the Yankees had brought him up at age 22, instead of babying him while he learned nothing at AA and AAA. I mean come on, he never had to run the bases in the minors! The only way to learn that is in interleague play in the majors.

      • The Big City of Dreams says:

        Do you count Kennedy as another pitcher that wasn’t handled properly? Or was he just not cut out for the AL East. I know some ppl bring up Melancon as well.

        • bonestock94 says:

          Nah, I don’t see problems with him. He sent up and down like many young pitchers, got a weird + serious injury, and then got traded.

          I was a bit frustrated when Melancon would come up and not get chances, but in the end he was bullpen fodder and nothing to really sweat.

          • The Big City of Dreams says:

            Yea the Melancon thing was frustrating because you heard about him for those yrs and picture having him be apart of the bullpen in a set-up role.

            I guess with Kennedy some ppl feel he was rushed to the majors.

    • MikeD says:

      Haven’t really seen many pitchers that the Yankees can claim to have “not developed.” It wasn’t until about five years back when Cashman had the organization focus on rebuilding the farm system. Their failure was more on the drafting side.

      Joba and Hughes were two of the best, and both are contributing on the big league level. This will be the third straight season the Yankees will have broken one of their young pitchers into the starting rotation, with Nova following Hughes and Joba. Players like IPK and Karstens and Ross Ohlendorf are NL-style pitchers. No loss, although I still give IPK a solid chance of having a good career if he stays in the NL. He’s at the upper end of the second-tier pitchers. Wang was solid until his foot injury.

      Not sure who UYW is referring to, then again, based on his comments, he’s hasn’t exactly displayed much knowledge.

      • The Big City of Dreams says:

        “Not sure who UYW is referring to,”

        I don’t want to speak for him but he definitely seems bothered by the Joba fiasco. Plus since the development process of the Yankees isn’t a long one I guess he’s going on what they have done in recent yrs.

  61. C: Napoli
    1B: Pujols
    2B: Pedrioa
    3B: Beltre
    SS: Reyes
    OF: Stanton
    OF: Rasmus
    OF: Bruce
    UTIL: Hart
    UTIL: Cuddyer
    Bench: Soriano, Hall, Dejesus, Wiggington, Harper (crosses fingers)

    Pitchers: W. Rodrigues, Anderson, Putz, Bard, Bumgarner, Sanchez, J. Garcia, Garza

  62. thumper says:

    I’m not getting into a war of words with you. Thought I’d just offer a suggestion so you could expand your mind/knowledge without continually embarrassing yourself so thoroughly. You can call them “stats 101 key words” but you’re missing the concepts they represent (add retrospective study to your homework assignment tonight too. you might find it closely related to concepts that are often utilized in case-control studies), but last week and tonight people have refuted your gross misinterpretation of the article and contortion of facts. You’re just not listening (which you have every right to do, but you do so at the sole detriment of yourself).

  63. Great, really, really great!

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