Off Day Open Thread


Yeah, another off day Robbie. (AP Photo/Bill Kostroun)

The Yankee are enjoying the first of two off days this week, though I’m not entirely sure why they needed Thursday off when they’re traveling from Toronto to Baltimore. Oh well, I guess enjoy it now, because off days don’t seem to come often enough during the middle of the summer. Anyway, here is your open thread for the evening. ESPN is carrying the Phillies and Brewers at 7pm ET, plus there’s plenty of NBA and NHL playoff action going on. Talk about whatever your heart desires, go nuts.

Site News: Just a heads up, I added a fancy new graph to the Fan Confidence Poll page this afternoon. It’s interactive, so you can zoom in and stuff, plus notable events were added to explain the peaks and value. I’m a nerd, it was fun. Enjoy.

Categories : Open Thread


  1. bexy on another computer says:

    this just in: ESPN NY wants you to panic. I’d link you to an article but I don’t really wanna give them clicks. But here is a line from it:

    And along with them, we may see what many have expected to see from the Yankees this season: shaky starting pitching, inconsistent offense and a creaky starting lineup that is not a year better than last year’s, just a year older.


  2. JD says:

    Brackman cant find the plate again. Getting mashed.

  3. First time lawng time says:

    Comment from annoyed box score: http://blogs.thescore.com/mlb/.....mment-6527

    Basically says Yankees had worst defensive infield; Cano, Tex, Jeter didn’t deserve their GGs.

    I’m sorry but I disagree with that. Cano was great at 2nd and Tex was superb.

    I think they may have had one of the best infields. Although Jeter wasn’t great.

    And when he defended himself he said that Pedroia was more deserving. Pretty sure he was mostly injured.

    • (peruses thread)

      That commenter’s hyperbole is pretty stupid, agreed, but his secondary point is that Cano and Tex also didn’t deserve their Gold Gloves, and on that note, he’s pretty accurate.

      Gold Glove voting invariably sucks, and picking Hudson at 2B or Barton at 1B last year wouldn’t have bothered me, they were both probably a bit better defensively than Robbie and Tex.

      • First time lawng time says:

        Yeah but I still think Cano and Tex were great and weren’t undeserving. I get what you’re saying though.

      • Jose the Satirist says:

        I’m friends with an A’s fan and he thinks that Barton should have won the GG. He never stops talking about how well he scoops the ball out of the dirt.

      • pete says:

        Definitely agreed. I think Cano and Teixeira are more than adequate, and each has some of the best hands and one (two?) of the best arms at his position, but neither is rangy. For Teix I think part of it may be positioning – he tends to play pretty shallow, which leads to a lot of great-looking diving plays, but also a fair number of balls getting by him. As for Cano, I’ve honestly never thought he had great range. Good hands, great arm, unbelievably good (like, best I’ve ever seen-good) at turning the double play, but in terms of range to hard-hit balls (his arm does enable him to make outs on a number of softly-hit grounders that other guys will get to but make no play on), I think he’s below average, maybe average at best.

        I think Barton and Youkilis are both better defenders than Tex, but I think Tex is pretty close. I don’t think Cano’s very close to Brandon Phillips, Mark Ellis, or Pedroia, and I don’t think even any of them were anywhere near Utley when he was healthy.

      • MikeD says:

        I have no problem with Tex winning the GG at first. I also would have no problem if he didn’t win the GG.

        I am aware that advanced metrics had Barton as the best in the league; however, I am also aware that first base defensive metrics remain highly flawed, despite the best efforts to improve them. Bill James actually voted Teixeira as the best defensive first baseman in the league for Dewan’s Fielding Bible Award, despite the fact that the plus/minus system showed Barton as best. James has either determined that the data is still meaningless for 1B, or he has access to proprietary data that he has helped develop for the Red Sox that is showing something different. (Of the many things I dislike about the Red Sox, one of them is they hired Bill James, preventing almost a decade of work from James from ever seeing the light of day.)

        Anyway, my point is I don’t have aa problem with Tex winning the GG because it’s possible he is the best 1B’man in the league. I think it’s entirely unclear who is the best. We have collection of first basemen who we recognize as among the best, with Tex being one of them, so fine, give him the award.

        Now Jeter is an entirely different story. There is no defense (no pun intended), there is no wiggle room, there is nothing to suggest he has the range to be considered a top-flight defender.

        I really don’t understand why Rawlings doesn’t change the way the GG is calculated. It’s not going away. It’s the standard. There will never be a day when someone says, “gosh, I won another Fielding Bible Award.” The term Gold Glove is part of the culture of baseball. It would be nice if Rawlings took it more seriously.

        • CS Yankee says:

          Rawlings seems to high stock in three things;
          1) Fielding percentages
          2) Batting average
          3) Marketibility

          …with this said, I think Jeter’s last gold glove was handed out for the 2010 season. If Andrus keeps his errors recorded down and bats .270+, he’ll likely get it as he is getting press lately. Cano will miss out since lazer boy has more range and New England buys gloves as well, but Barton will (likely always) take a back seat to Teix or Agon.

          • MikeD says:

            If I remember correctly, it’s only coaches and managers who vote on the GG. What’s interesting is I don’t think the people who vote for Jeter actually think he is the best defensive player in the league. The Yankees, for example, have always known that Jeter’s range to his left was a bit lacking (you’ll see Torre mentioned it in his book), but he more than compensated for the balls he let leak into CF by his overall game. There has always been a tendency to vote for good offensive players (as you noted above with BA) in the GG, and these same voters also seem to like players to establish themselves before awarding them.

            I don’t think Rawlings wants to take the vote away from the coaches, but they can change how the voting is constructed. It’s possible, even likely, that no more than three people voted for Jeter, with all the other votes split among other SSs. He just got the most votes among the SSs in the AL (It’s not exactly a deep group of late). It’s easy to fix so that at the very least the most embarassing winners are eliminated.

    • First time lawng time says:

      Annotated not annoyed

  4. Epy0n says:

    Anybody going to watch or listen to the Tribe vs Royals game?

  5. JerseyDutch says:

    The Red Sox are getting hot and the Orioles have gone ice cold. Anyone surprised?

  6. First time lawng time says:

    Which players on the Yankees right now do you think will be in HOF?
    Which players do you think SHOULD be in the HOF?

    (this is all barring serious injury etc)

    • Joseph Cecala says:

      Jeter, Mo, Cano

      Posada, Jones, Arod

    • Who I think are locks to get there: Jeter, A-rod, Mariano
      On the fence: Posada
      Could make it if they continue on career path: Tex, Cano, CC

    • Esteban says:

      Jeter and Mariano, both easily.
      A-Rod but some debate about steroids
      Posada and Mussina get in eventually
      Pettitte gets a “winner” campaign going for him, but doesn’t make it and shouldn’t.
      Clemens dies in a fiery car crash after a long police chase after Clemens stabs Brian McNamee to death with a 3″ needle.

    • Lance Pendleton.

      Dude has a career 1.73 FIP., and he’s on pace to accumulate about 200 fWAR over his career, as well.

      That’s just sick.

      • CS Yankee says:


        MSS=Mega Supreme Size
        SSS=Small Sample Size
        NSS=No Sample Size

        Thinking that Lance is a frog hair above the NSS.

    • CS Yankee says:

      Which players on the Yankees right now do you think will be in HOF?
      …Mo, Jeter, Arod already earned it…CC & 50/50 on Cano, and 25/75 ‘Sada.

      Which players do you think SHOULD be in the HOF?
      …Mo, Jeter, & Arod

      25/75 chance to Moose, Clemens, Pettitte

      • MikeD says:

        I’m 99% convinced Mussina will be elected, especially with the election of Blyleven. As BBWAA members keep voting against steroid users, at some point they will have consider that Mussina put up those numbers not only in the steroid era, but in the AL and AL East with a DH.

        I debated him for a bit, but he’s a clear HOFer.

        • CS Yankee says:

          I think his stats make a great case for him, although a few things that might keep him out;
          1) Quite the pitching pool to choose from his era…Clemens, Maddux, Shilling, Pedro, Randy, Glavine, Smoltz, etc.
          2) I think with the pool of current/former Yankees headed for the ballot will distract from Moose’s votes.
          3) Had 1 or 2 great postseason games but never got the ring…unfair to take away for that? Yeah I think so…however, if you list it as an asset for Jorge, isn’t it a liability for Moose?
          4) Except for a year or two in Baltimore he was never “the” guy feared in the league.
          5) 20 shy of 300 & only one year with 20 W’s

          If I had a vote, he’d get it but I’m not sure he’ll get the writers since they don’t look at the modern metrics for stats.

          • Clemens, Maddux, Pedro, Randy, and Smoltz are better than Mussina. But he’s MUCH better than Glavine and at worst, Schilling’s equal.

            • CS Yankee says:

              They will like Glavine’s 300 W’s & WS ring…they also enjoy a good clutch (or ketchup on their socks) moment.

              I would rank them something like;
              1) Maddux
              2) Johnson
              3) Pedro
              4) Smoltz
              5) Clemens
              6) Moose
              7) Shill
              8) Glavine
              BTW, the first three could be argued in any order (and if steriods don’t play in your rankings the first four could be argued).

              Moose has an uphill battle due to many great players in his era.

            • MannyGeee says:

              Schilling has Boston going for him. gag

          • MikeD says:

            It is a pitching-rich group, but I expect they will all make it. There’s been a lack of starting pitchers elected in recent years, and now there’s a whole boat load coming up. Oddly, Clemens might have the highest mountain to climb because of the PED issue. I don’t know how long it will take Mussina to get in, but I do believe he will make it.

    • Will for sure: Jeter, Rodriguez, Rivera
      Should be: Those three, plus Jorge.

    • JerseyDutch says:

      Jeter and Mo will.

      Posada and A-Rod should.

      Cano, IMO, is still too young to really know but if he has a handful of good years from here, he’ll probably go.

      And one vote for Frankie Cervelli for the fist-pumping HOF.

    • Jerome S. says:

      We need to start the Swisher Hall of Fame campaign.

      Not because it should happen, but out of shits and giggles. I think it’s be hilarious.

    • JMK says:

      Which players on the Yankees right now do you think will be in HOF?

      Gardner, AJ, Phil, Joba, Logan, Marte, Feliciano

      Which players do you think SHOULD be in the HOF?

      Gardner, AJ, Phil, Joba, Logan, Marte, Feliciano

      That’s it.

    • DCBX says:

      Jeter and Mo are first ballot locks right now. CC and Cano if they can maintain their current level of performance for the next 6-7 years.

  7. Dino Velvet says:

    You can always count on the Blue Jays to roll over when playing the Sox.

  8. Dino Velvet says:

    The Red Sox-media-industrial-complex has started a campaign to get Dwight Evans into the HOF.

    Their argument is if Dawson and Rice are in, then so should Evans.

    Evans is no longer on the HOF ballot, so any induction will have to come from the Veterans committee.

    Boston is really good at propaganda and leveraging Yankee hatred and the small town inferiority complex, so he’s got a shot at an end-run induction in 5 to 10 years, as the mythology takes root.

  9. So I remember the Yankees winning the game against the Rangers yesterday but something doesn’t add up. I thought Alexi Ogando had never started against the Yankees before.

  10. Sheepmeister says:

    So Jesus Montero is good at this baseball thing. I hope he sticks with it, he may just be onto something.

  11. NJ_Andy says:

    Hypothetically MLB has decided to “level the playing field.” They plan to put all of the players in MLB into a giant pool, Fantasy Style, and let the various teams bid for the players. Their current contracts are void, and new contracts will be instituted that perfectly value each player through the wonders of math and magic. There is a catch, however. It is not the GM’s who make each choice, but randomly selected fans. YOU, lucky fan, have been selected to make said choice. You enter the draft room in secret, with a list of your teams previous picks in hand. You have prepared for a solid week, scouring every scouting report you could find and sitting down with various high ranking team officials. Finally, the moment has come. After sorting through the many available players, you are stuck between two choices.

    Player A is 5% better than Player B, but 10% more of an asshole. Who do you pick for your team?

    At what point does the asshole factor outweigh the superior talent?

    • Tom Zig says:

      Depends on if his asshole factor gets him into legal trouble.

      Sheffield wasn’t a pleasant person but was a hell of a player
      Barry Bonds wasn’t a nice guy either.

      • pat says:

        Yea, thats what I was thinking. I’d take Jeff Kent on my team every day of the week and he might have been a bigger asshole than Barry. Once their assholeishness extends to breaking the law and whatnot that’s where I’d draw the line.

    • mbonzo says:

      How much of an asshole is player B? I’m easily 10% more of an asshole than Santa, and probably 5% better at baseball.

      • MikeD says:

        I’m guessing Santa is pretty good at baseball. Magical powers, and all.

      • NJ_Andy says:

        Good point. Let’s assume that Player B’s asshole factor is precisely equivalent to his skill level. If he’s a superstar player, he’s a superstar asshole. If he’s Jeff Francoeur, well…he’s got a great personality.

    • Steve H says:

      It would take me a long time for asshole factor to outweigh talent. Manny one of the big “clubhouse cancer” guys is one of the biggest winners of the past 20 years. He showed up in Cleveland and they went where they hadn’t been in 40+ years. He showed up in Boston and they went there they hadn’t been in 80+ years. He showed up in LA and they went where they hadn’t been in 20 years.

      • Dino Velvet says:

        I don’t think he was a cancer, rather he was a non-conformist.

        To me a cancer is someone who fights with his teammates or shows them up or is very unlikeable to the point of being detested (ie Mitch Williams, Rob Dibble, Curt Schilling).

    • Mike HC says:

      In general, if you are getting superstar production, other than legal trouble, being an asshole is meaningless. But if the production is more in the average range, the asshole factor becomes far more of a negative. So I take the superstar with 5% better production and 10% more asshole, and the I take the averagish player who is 5% less productive but also 10% less of an asshole.

      • NJ_Andy says:

        Is this because talent becomes exponentially more valuable as you increase, or because asshole becomes exponentially less valuable?

        • Mike HC says:

          If we are talking a 6 WAR player who is 50% asshole, I would prefer the 6.3 WAR player who is 60% asshole. But, if we are talking a 2.1 WAR player who is 60% asshole, I would prefer the 2 WAR player who is 50% asshole.

          Hope that helped clarify my answer, ha.

  12. pat says:

    Still can’t believe the Dodgers let Martin go for nothing. I can understand not trusting the medicals and not wanting to pay him in arbitration, but to let a 28 year old former GG/SS type catcher leave for nothing is incomprehensible. Cash would have at least been able to find some reliever that throws 95 with crappy control to take a chance on.

    • Steve H says:

      Considering it was only going to be a 1 year deal, I can’t believe the Sox didn’t step up their offer for him. They had (have) a bigger need than the Yankees did.

      • mbonzo says:

        I think the Sox feared the luxury tax cap.

        • Steve H says:

          Assuming they offered him $4 million or so, the jump to $6 or $7 million is peanuts. As aggressive as they were this offseason I don’t think they’d let a very minor cap hit get in the way. I’m guessing they just didn’t think that highly of Martin and thought they could roll with Captain Varitek if Salty failed.

    • mbonzo says:

      Martin made $5m last year with a .679 OPS and injuries. He had tons of upside to him, but for the Dodgers who are in financial woes, paying $5m on a gamble like Martin is dangerous.

    • CS Yankee says:

      The rumor was that Cerv’ was offered & if they went that route, Martin would be about a 8M$ cost this year.

      Another rumor was that Boston was mildly interested in him but went with Salty due to injury concerns.

      Things worked out well, quite well.

  13. So Price goes eight, gives up zero runs, walks two, and strikes out nine. What did Harold Reynolds like best? Price’s “attitude”. I’m so glad we have this wonderful analysis available to us.

  14. The Tenth Inning Stretch says:

    Watching the Phils-Brewers game on ESPN. Mitre entering the game in the 7th.

  15. Ivan says:

    I don’t know about you guys but, I cannot wait for Game 2 of the Knick game.

    I mean Game 1 stung but hey losing game 1 of a series on the road isn’t the worst thing in the world.

    Nevertheless, im not going to say the Knicks should of won the game but it seems that way. That foul on Melo when it was about 30+ seconds in the 4th was ridiculous and How in the world Garnett gets away with that illegal screen to help Allen get open for the 3 is beyond me. I know the road team most likey never gets the benefit of the call but geez.

    However if you told me that Melo would have a nightmare 2nd half and the Knicks would still have a chance to win, I would of had a hard time believing you.

    I like my Knicks in this series still. By the Way, how good was Amare uh?!

  16. Monteroisdinero says:

    Montero 3-4 tonight and hitting .452. Of course 2 SB’s against him which I’m sure were totally his fault. Guy’s a DH for sure.

    Yanks win.

    • MikeD says:

      Montero solution to playing time:

      35 games back-up catcher.
      15 games at 1B.
      100 games DH.

      This way he’s not just a DH and can take the field, but wil limit his exposure at catcher

      That leaves another 60 games at DH for guys like A-Rod, Jeter, Tex or whomever they want to rotate in.

      He’ll only be in his mid-20s when Tex’ contract is up, so he could take over fulltime at first eventually. They might as well start giving him some reps there now.

      Right now, it’s Posada blocking the arrival of Montero, not Martin.

      • YanksFan77 says:

        Yes, I never thought Martin took Montero’s roster spot. He took Romine’s.

      • CS Yankee says:

        I’d say;
        A) 40-50 games as catcher
        B) 100-120 games at a DH.
        C) 0-0 games as a 1B

        My logic;
        A) A starting catcher rarely gets 120 in these days
        B) Arod & Teix don’t need too many days away from D & Jeter should never be a DH because of lack of power (and recent decline)
        C) We have Teix, Swish, & Chavez and shouldn’t waste everyone’s time in getting him to a “Giambi-good” status.

    • S says:

      Romine’s CS hasn’t been any better than Montero (Austin has only a 13% right now)

      but this has made me curious, is it really all the catchers (Montero, Romine, etc) or is blame just as deserving for the pitchers? The Yankees are always getting run on, no matter who seems to be catching, it seems that the inability to keep runners at least somewhat close to the bag is an organization wide issue. If our pitchers could keep guys within ten feet of the bag instead of 30ft from 1st before they even steal (a slight exgeration)it might help the catchers percentages.

  17. V says:

    Nothing annoys me about baseball more than watching a home plate umpire call two identical pitches a ball and a strike in the same at bat.

    [/has Axford on his fantasy team]

    • V says:

      I hate you, John Axford.

      At least I didn’t waste an early pick on a busted closer, heh. Just gotta keep running him out there, though.

    • Tom Zig says:

      I don’t feel bad for you. I have Matt Thorton AND Ryan Franklin on my team.

      • CS Yankee says:

        I could understand the Thorton pick, but why Franklin? He makes Lidge look good.

        • Tom Zig says:

          I got him in the 16th round. I wasn’t expecting a world beater, just a guy who would get me 30+ saves and like a 4-5 ERA. That’s all I needed with my starting pitchers.

      • V says:


        I usually go cheap on closers, but I was amazed Chris Perez slipped to the end of the 11th round. Despite playing for a crappy team, I have him pegged as a potential top 5 closer by the end of the year.

        Axford was my 12th rounder and the injured Bailey was my 13th.

  18. V says:

    Holy wtf. Fielder wasn’t even -close- to swinging and the home plate umpire called him out.

    Home plate umpires should not call swinging strikes. Wow.

  19. Pat D says:

    I have been so bored at work all day. Hopefully they’ll let me go home early because they didn’t give us an extended lunch.

    God, this is depressing with no game to follow.

  20. Cy Pettitte says:

    Wow, this is brutal for the Brewers, double header yesterday and now extra innings tonight

  21. V says:

    Holy wtf: http://mlb.mlb.com/news/articl.....8;c_id=mlb

    Mike Leake arrested for shoplifting. This is worse than Buchholz.

  22. Dino Velvet says:

    Chapman’s fastball reached 106 mph tonight


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