May
15

Sherman: Yankees have no intention of keeping Posada after 2011

By

Via Joel Sherman, the Yankees have no intention of keeping Jorge Posada beyond this season, and the former backstop knew this from the outset of Spring Training. The problem is that Posada doesn’t want to retire nor does he want to play for another team. Aside from his poor performance this year, I’m certain this is another thing on Jorge’s mind, and I can’t imagine it feels good. It’s always ugly at the end of a legacy player’s career, and the past 24 hours are really just the beginning (of the end) for Posada.

Categories : Asides

148 Comments»

  1. Matt :: Sec110 says:

    Jorge should take his ball and go home…what he did yesterday was embarrassing.

    • CP says:

      Isn’t that what he do yesterday?

    • Ace says:

      Will always love what he did on the team.

      Last night with the Yankees #1 rival in house, he picked an awful time to feel self entitled! When Ortiz and Varitek felt the need to chime in on the drama,you know it’s bad

      Now the sux know the Yankees are even more distracted, dealing with internal strife, and the teams slumping tonight.

      Note: AJ has the best pitching record in the rotation this season,What’s the reason?

    • TKNY says:

      He has about 13 million reasons not to do that.

  2. Total Dominication says:

    Obvious story is obvious.

  3. Feim says:

    This is the lower point of the season so far. Things are damn ugly, and the fact that Bosox are in town doesn’t help

  4. Jake H says:

    Unless he destroyed the ball I doubt that the Yankees were going to bring him back. They need the DH to help keep other players fresh.

    • MannyGeee says:

      Thought we were all under this impression when they “Primary DH’d” him, he would need to COMPLETELY rale for them to consider bringing him back as a DH…

      the 18/109 and hissy fit for being dropped in the batting order did not help his case.

  5. Granderslam says:

    It’s sad to watch the players age, but there has to come a time in their mind when even they admit enough is enough. And that time has come for Posada, regardless of his previous stats. He was a great Yankee, but keyword: was. Time to move on and think about the team…not yourself. And the best chance to win is if Posada accepts that reality.

    • It’s sad to watch the players age, but there has to come a time in their mind when even they admit enough is enough.

      I agree, the time has come for him to admit that his skills have diminished and he just doesn’t deserve to start or be the star anymore. Humbly bow out gracefully without deluding yourself or getting upset when others rightly point out to you that you’re not the same person anymore. It’s perfectly obvious, I don’t know why he doesn’t get it.

      Sincerely,
      Bernie Williams, Rickey Henderson, Steve Carlton, Michael Jordan, Emmitt Smith, Brett Favre, Jerry Rice, Johnny Unitas, Jim Palmer, Bjorn Borg, Carl Lewis, Allen Iverson, Oscar De La Hoya, Gordie Howe, Deion Sanders, Andre Agassi, Shaquille O’Neal, Bob Cousy, George Foreman, Joe Namath, Joe Montana, Tiki Barber, Jose Canseco, Minnie Minoso, Muhammad Ali, Bernard Hopkins, Ken Griffey Jr., Willie Mays, and like a thousand other people.

  6. LGY says:

    Damn…that’s something hard to know

  7. General Tsao says:

    Posada needs to go not at the end of 2011 but right now. He has become a cancer in the locker room. No player should have the power to tell the manager where he is to hit in the lineup. No player should be able to quit on his ballclub and remain with the team. Release him or pay most of his salary to trade him.

  8. Mackeyse says:

    The definition of legacy is “anything bequeathed”. Current and future yankee fans will be bequeathed some piles of sh*t with the contracts of jeter and especially Tex and arod. Sad that the premier franchise in all of sports has to overpay or seriously outbid other offers (in CC’s case) to get talent. Something has to give at some point. I know it’s old news but the next few years are going to get ugly.

  9. Mickey Scheister says:

    HIP HIP…Jorge! Or should it be RIP RIP Jorge? He’s having an awful year, these distractions make it worse. Cashman should have kept his mouth shut and this would be a non-issue; no one thought before the game Jorge was retiring. It was the way Cashman (miss)spoke, I blame Cash 100%. Everyone needs a day off, (Cash, take a week off…u need it) and IF he was gonna retire before the season, no way now after all this malarky. Give em’ hell Jorgie!

    • Bob Stone says:

      I agree halfway. Jorge did NOT handle this well either. I think he has a festering resentment that he wasn’t allowed to compete for catching duties in spring training. That plus his poor performance plus being put in the nine hole led to him boiling over yesterday.

    • noseeum says:

      I disagree. He didn’t ask for a day off right when he got there. Girardi had the lineup set, everything was getting set for the day. He told him with one hour to go before first pitch. Even Girardi implied that was not cool. Andruw Jones had less than an hour to get ready for a game he didn’t expect to be playing in. Not cool.

      Here’s what Girardi said (h/t Lohud): “This conversation didn’t take place three or four hours before the game,” Girardi said. “That’s part of the issue. I have to go make changes. I have to tell people that they’re in the lineup. It’s final preparation for a game. We have to get lineup cards out. It was a late conversation.”

      Cashman had every right to be pissed and to make it an issue in the press. If George were alive, Posada would have gotten DFA’d last night, so he should thank his lucky stars Cashman is a reasonable man.

    • Cashman should have kept his mouth shut and this would be a non-issue;

      False. Cashman pushed the issue a bit, but Jorge conveniently asking for a day off mere hours after the first time he gets dropped to 9th in the order smells like a Pippenesque punk move, and it is an issue regardless of what Cashman does or says in response.

      • CMP says:

        Partially true. Cashman should have kept his mouth shut till after the game so he could have met with Posada and Girardi and they could have presented a united front instead of making Posada look even worse and fanning the flames higher.

        • But again, Cashman handling the situation differently could have turned it into a smaller issue (or probably a more nebulous issue that the press has fewer details on to speculate about), but it wouldn’t have turned it into a non-issue.

          If Cashman says nothing and then Girardi lies to the press or equivocates and obfuscates and dodges or covers for Jorge in any way, it’s still an issue. The act of refusing to play is the issue. All Cashman did is make it harder to walk the story back into a smaller issue.

          • CMP says:

            Agreed but Cashman’s role here is to diffuse the situation, not create more controversy and distraction for a club already playing like shit.

            I think Cashman took an opportunity to turn public sentiment even further against Posada which will make his job of replacing him that much easier.

            • noseeum says:

              Who says Cashman’s role is to diffuse the situation? He intentionally decided to escalate it, which is all you need to know in order to realize how he felt about it. Why is he obligated to do Posada a favor by pretending it’s a non-issue?

              Posada created the situation, Cashman decided he was going to make sure Posada knew how much of a situation it is. I don’t see anything wrong with that.

              • Cashman’s role is to do what’s best for the team, both short-term and long-term.

                Choosing to not diffuse the situation (but rather, to escalate it) might not have been the best thing for the Yankee team, particularly long-term. It sounds like Cashman is talking to the press (mid-game, mind you) about a conversation between a player and the manager that happened in the clubhouse. Players don’t often take kindly to people talking to the press about what happens inside that clubhouse. I’m sure that Jorge would have wanted to speak for himself, or have Girardi speak for him. He doesn’t want Cashman speaking for him about a conversation and a decision he wasn’t party to.

                That could potentially pose a problem, not simply with Posada, but with the other players in that clubhouse going forward. While they probably don’t care for what Jorge did, at all, Jorge is still their closer friend and ally than Cashman, and Cashman should know that there’s a tough line to walk when you’re pushing a guy out who is a friend to a lot of those guys (even if he’s sucking ass and looks totally shot).

              • CMP says:

                I guess Cashman’s role is to escalate the situation and get into a public pissing match with one of the clubs all time great players.

                Posada was clearly wrong and out of line but Cashman is supposed to do what’s in the best interest of the club and he didn’t do that in this case by stirring things up even more.

              • Slugger27 says:

                i guess i just dont get the whole “cashman is in the wrong, too” line of thinking.

                him and jorge spoke before the game. both jorge and his agents were aware of what cashman was going to say to the media. cashman said jorge asked to be removed from the lineup about an hour prior to the game for a non-injury reason, and basically NOTHING AT ALL besides that, repeatedly refusing to comment further.

                what the hell is so wrong with what he did? what am i missing?

                • He could have chosen to say nothing at all to the media.

                  The fact that he might have cleared his comments with Jorge or his agents ahead of time doesn’t mean that he was forced to comment at all. It just means that he told Jorge ahead of time, “Look, I’m going to go to the press with this story.”

                  It’s a choice he didn’t have to make.

                  Brian Cashman is fully entitled to tell the press “Fuck off, this is an in-house matter and we’ll tell you what we want to tell you when we want to tell you. I know you all want me to give you details but this matter is not one we’re talking about.”

                  Even if it’s a big deal internally, you don’t have to make it a big deal externally.

                  • Slugger27 says:

                    Even if it’s a big deal internally, you don’t have to make it a big deal externally.

                    it was already a big deal externally. regardless of him commenting on it, thats what all the post-game focus was going to be on. yes, i agree that not commenting at all is a viable option, but i would think it’d be more of an issue if cashman had said something groundbreaking. after all, if jorge is giving a press conference at his locker, and girardi one after the game, was there any way this wasn’t going to be a story?

                    again, its not like cashman threw him under the bus. its not like he said “jorge is pissed about hitting 9th and asked out of the lineup as a matter of pride”… he simply stated some very generic, non-commital facts and refused to go into further detail, even when pressed.

                    ive rewatched the interview on DVR multiple times now, and i just dont see how any comment he made truly intensified the story or poured gas on the fire.

        • BKLYN says:

          It seems like that was Cashman’s intent. He’s been playing the bad cop role a lot lately, and quite frankly, I think he likes it. Maybe he’s got a Napoleon complex going on. =)

    • Mickey Scheister says:

      Cashman should’ve have addressed this behind closed doors. I manage a team and never would I air my teams laundry to my boss or even another team, and for Cash to suffer from diarrhea of the mouth in the middle of an inning, on prime time TV versus the BoSox, concerning something as small as a line-up change. I’ve seen multiple times someone’s name crossed out on the line-up RAB posts for the game thread. They could have kept the knowledge of what and how Jorge’s reason for sitting out of the game was and chalked it up to cramps or a sore throat, not this clusterfuck. This could have been handled a thousand time better. As wrong as Jorge was, by Cash spouting off at the mouth it made this all get blown way out a proportion. But maybe Brian knows that and this is part of his ninja tactic. I manage a 3M store, Cash manages a billion dollar industry. So in closing, Posada was wrong but the way Cashman handled it was way worse. IMO. I still think Cash needs a day off.

  10. noseeum says:

    I understand this being tough for Jorge. But really what choice to they have? They can’t hold back all these minor leaguers another year for the sake of Posada.

    Montero’s bat is pretty much ready. Would be nice to see a bit more of a power surge in AAA, but I’m not worried about it. If Posada wasn’t there, they’d be giving Vazquez the chance right now to be the next Kevin Maas (without the additional terrible seasons after the one good one of course).

    There are much better bats having to spend time at DH next year. Sorry Jorge, it’s the nature of the beast. Take it like a man and you’ll get a cushy coaching job in no time.

  11. Studs Lonigan says:

    I just heard Buster Olney saying some serious stuff. He said Jorge has just used up all his “legacy” capital. He said the Yankees will consider releasing him if he doesn’t hit like fast.

    This seems like it was poorly handled. Oh well.

    • Studs Lonigan says:

      Heard Buster on the radio.

    • Mickey Scheister says:

      You know what team could use a catcher now? The Red Sox. If he gets released, that would be a marvel to see Jorge spit time with Tek and possibly slavage his season. He needs to catch to hit, eh? Couldn’t be much worse than the Tek/Salty combo.

      • gargoyle says:

        Posada is not a catcher and the RS would never pick him up even if it was just to spite the Yankees.

        • MannyGeee says:

          which Red Sox are YOU watching? pay minimum contract in order to piss on the Yankees even a little bit???

      • He needs to catch to hit, eh?

        Causation ≠ correlation

        Couldn’t be much worse than the Tek/Salty combo.

        Oh, absolutely, he could. Even as bad as they’ve been, 2011 Jorge Posada the catcher is eminently capable of being worse both at the plate and behind it. Sadly, it’s come to that.

        • A-Rod's Wingman says:

          Ehh…there’s some guys that can’t DH. I don’t think it’s fair to say that Jorge is one of them due to:

          A.) His lack of ABs at DH
          B.) The point in his career that he started DHing.

          However, there have been a few players litered through out baseball that needed to play a certain position to keep their heads in the game.

  12. gargoyle says:

    I want him gone now – not after the season. This is a real opportunity to make a fresh start.

  13. I Am Not The Droids You're Looking For (is off to masterstroke myself) says:

    Buh bye. Not that it’s news or anything.

  14. Ken says:

    I hope Posada retires after the season. I cant bear seeing him in another uniform. I dont think any Yankee fan wants to see that

  15. Naved says:

    You know I wouldn’t really mind this if it wasn’t holding back Jesus Montero. We got a stud prospect ready to go and Posada is just delaying it.

  16. IB6 UB9 says:

    I just get annoyed by Jeter and now Posada feeling disrespected. I understand frustration, disappointment or even annoyance but disrespect implies the expectation of preferential treatment.

    I don’t really care for Jeter right now and Posada is going from hot-headed gamer to delusional baby.

  17. Brian Paul says:

    Relax and enjoy the baseball. Games on tonight. Let’s beat up on Lester.

  18. Al says:

    Jorge being Jorge.

  19. dkidd says:

    count me among the few who think jorge can still salvage this season

    despite ortiz’ opinion that “d-hing sucks, dude”, not having to squat for 6 months could translate into one last 800+ ops season

    /hoping against hope that jorge goes out better than steve carlton

  20. CMP says:

    I’ll bet that Slade Heathcott’s glad Jorge pulled himself out of the lineup last night.

  21. Fernando says:

    It’s obvious that Posada was gone after this season, just as it is obvious that Sherman is a terrible writer.

    Tough decisions need to be made regardless of player’s legacies. Management gave these long contracts to Jeter and A-Rod when there were NO OTHER teams offering contracts. They bid against themselves.

    The Yankees have a wealth of catchers and there’s no point in paying Posada 13 million when Montero is ready. It’s was the same scenario with Mattingly. Once the team admitted that it was time to move on, they traded for Tino and won a bunch of titles.

    • mike c says:

      mattingly was done after the strike season… they were in first place and could possibly have won it that year, but the strike came and mattingly never got the shot to win one. pretty sad for the guy, but his back was just done

  22. IB6 UB9 says:

    This is why a farm system is so important – you have more leverage to deal with free agents and aging veterans. Posada got his extra year(s) because the team was desperate. Sabathia will opt out and get more years/money because the Yankees will be desperate. Jeter got a PR-based contract that the march to 3000 hits can’t cover the stench of. The Yankees have enough to offer without negotiating like suckers to avoid ‘disrespecting’ anyone.

    • CMP says:

      The Jeter contract baffled me. They could have given him a 2/$30 million with some incentives and it still would have been extremely generous and far more than any other team would have offered.

  23. Preston says:

    I’m upset by this whole thing. Regardless of what happened behind closed doors Cashman should have handled this differently. He could have said nothing or just said that Jorge was sick, sore, needed time etc. Jorge shouldn’t have made the comment about Cashman, and if his back isn’t sore (if it was why would Cashman have said it wasn’t injury related?) he shouldn’t have said it was. Girardi has said and done all the right things here. But I have to wonder about his relationship with Posada. He was the starting catcher and Posada slowly over the course of several years took his job. They probably didn’t have the greatest relationship as team-mates, both competitive guys vying for the same playing time. It’s easy for a player and manager to get along while things are going well but maybe Posada feels that this “disrespect” is a manifestation of old resentments. I’ve always thought it had to be weird that Jeter and Posada played with and now for Girardi (I assume it’s probably easier for pitchers like Pettitte and Rivera since the dynamic of their relationship was similar as pitcher/catcher). Would Posada or Jeter take these decisions so personally if it didn’t come from a former team-mate? Is that why Cashman is going out of his way to be the bad guy, to save Joe Girardi’s status in the club house? I don’t know, but Jorge won’t keep his job much longer if he continues to struggle and be a distraction. And if Jeter continues to be a shell of his former self will the Yanks pursue Jose Reyes in the off-season? Things could get real ugly real quick for some of my favorite players of all time. I was upset when Mussina retired, but it was definitely the smart thing to go out on top. Maybe Jorge and Derek should have retired after 09 going out with rings on their fingers. Obviously Mussina and Elway aren’t the norm, most athletes hang on to long but it’s still hard to see.

    • Slugger27 says:

      why is everyone upset with how cashman handled it? theres been multiple reports that cashman made both posada and his agents fully aware what he was going to tell the media.

      • Preston says:

        I’m not upset with Cashman. I really like and respect the guy. But I also like and respect Jorge. And somebody has to be wrong here. If Cashman really discussed this with Jorge and this is what they said than Jorge is being a childish A**hole. But I think that whatever happened in the meeting they should have all come out of it presenting a united front even if that wasn’t a reality. Cashman knows the NY media and after he made his comments several reporters were speculating that Jorge was announcing his retirement after the game. If Cash had said Jorge feels he’s struggling and it’s not in the best interest of the team for him to play today, he’s going to take a day, clear his head and continue to work with K-Long and get better going forward then this becomes a non-story (Curtis Granderson did it last year). By being vague, Cashman opened the floodgates for speculation and created the present media frenzy.

    • Adam says:

      One thing I will mention here when it comes to the supposed Girardi-Posada tension…while Joe was certainly terse last night in his comments, he also did go out of his way to at least show some understanding of Jorge’s predicament.

  24. Nathan says:

    I will always appreciate what Posada has done for this team. He was an integral and key piece of the dynasty puzzle and he’ll likely be in Monument Park one day (HOF, unlikely). But he needs to accept the reality of the current situation: his defense isn’t great, so he is the DH. He isn’t hitting well, so he’s dropped in the line-up. Bottom line today and everyday moving forward is putting the best lineup out there in order to win. If that means Po hits 9th or sits, that is Girardi’s call.

  25. Will says:

    I’ll never quite understand why fans are often so quick to turn on players in favor of management. According to Girardi, Posada asked for a mental day. Is it really so wrong for a player to request time to process a torrent of emotions? Would it have been in the best interest of the team to have a distracted Posada in the lineup?

    Posada most certainly did not quit on the team. This is a player who patiently and quietly bided his time while the Yankees foolishly made him take a backseat to Girardi. He is also the same guy who never missed a game when his son was undergoing life threatening surgeries. For 15 years, he has been a passionate, dedicated team player, but now, because he asked out of the lineup one time, he is a quitter?

    There are very few things worse than a short memory.

    • Adam says:

      Sadly, I think more than anything it is reflective of the larger problem of spoiled fans and their short term memory. Posada is a hack and a bum because he is off to a bad start…in fact we already saw all of the Posada bashing for years given his (serious) short comings behind the plate. Whatever. The team has had a boatload of success with him as a key member of the team, but now some are ready to jettison him and ignore the past. Again, take Jorgie to task for what he did wrong here, which he surely did…but it becomes problematic when the ridiculous emotional reactions cloud peoples’ appreciation of someone who is a big part of Yankee history.

      It saddens me to say, but the way this whole situation has gone down has made me think that Cash and the front office feel similarly.

      • Will says:

        That’s what bothers me most about last night. Girardi and Posada made mistakes of passion. Cashman and the organization made mistakes that were calculated. I am not saying that the Yankees should bat Posada cleanup until he decides to retire, but you’d think Cashman’s first reaction would have been concern for his player’s state of mind instead of getting in front of the story and seeking disciplinary measures.

        If the new Cashman is here to stay, I think I’d like to see a new GM next year (and I’ve long consider myself to be one of Cashman’s biggest fans).

        • Adam says:

          This.

          Exactly and is far from the damage control that seems to have often been effectively managed by the organization and by Cash himself (I, too, am one of his biggest defenders). I don’t quite get it, who knows, maybe Cashman just wanted to send a message that any player insubordination will not be excepted. Who knows. But one way or another this seemed like a calculated move by Cash and one that only stoked the situation further. And that is really bad managing…

      • Slugger27 says:

        I think more than anything it is reflective of the larger problem of spoiled fans and their short term memory. Posada is a hack and a bum because he is off to a bad start

        fans dont think posada is a hack or a bum, they think hes an aging (former) great player who is past his prime and physically not capable of hitting like he used to.

        but now some are ready to jettison him and ignore the past

        isn’t that the best way to run the team? the yankees (and us fans) were perfectly willing to let jorge play out the last year of his contract as a DH. but when your OPS hoves around 600 all season, both the team and the fans have a right to question your position on the team, especially when its clear your results aren’t based on poor luck

        • Will says:

          Posada’s BABIP is .164. If we are going to ascribe such a figure to bad luck for everyone else, why not Jorge? I am not saying I think Posada has been unlucky, but it’s possible that he could rebound. Also, the issue isn’t batting Posada in the middle of the lineup or 9th. It’s 8th or 9th. Considering that we know such a switch has practically no impact on run production, why not error on the side of caution when it comes to the mental side of the game. Is it unfair to suggest that Posada deserves the benefit of one slot in the batting order for at least a little longer?

          • Posada’s BABIP is .164. If we are going to ascribe such a figure to bad luck for everyone else, why not Jorge?

            Because we have good reason to believe that the lion’s share of that poor BABIP isn’t simple dumb luck but is more his new true talent level now.

            I think his BABIP will probably rise a bit if he had a full 600+ plate appearances, but I’m not expecting it to rise anywhere near league average. Posada’s true, non-luck-influenced BABIP could easily be .200 or lower at this point in his career.

        • Adam says:

          Look in the end it is about results, and if he can’t get the job done then a new DH is in order. That doesn’t mean that name calling or denigrating Posada is at all legitimate (not here so much as last night’s game thread). That sort of thing is just kind of sad and vindictive. So questioning Posada’s contribution to the team presently is totally legit. But some have reacted as if Posada’s move last night (while again wrong) was akin to kicking a puppy…the team puppy no less.

          • Slugger27 says:

            i get what you’re saying, im just not sure i think fans are being out of line. the team (namely the offense) is really struggling right now, and a team meeting was just called by girardi to try to get the players to start playing better/less sloppy.

            yes, its still just one series out of 50 or whatever that happen during the season, but i think most fans feel posada picked a terrible time to get butthurt about being moved 2 freakin spots down in the batting order. i dont think that line of thinking is overreacting and/or wrong.

    • Slugger27 says:

      of course its not wrong for posada to ask for a mental day if he needs it. but from what we know right now, that mental day is basically a PR way of saying “im not gonna hit 9th on national tv against our biggest rival”. if he truly needed a mental day, im guessing he wouldve informed girardi a lot sooner than one hour prior to game time, dont you think?

      jorge said he and cashman talked before game time and it was “a conversation we needed to have” …. why would it be wholly necessary for him to say anything with cashman if the only it was, was a “day to clear his head”

      also, i have no idea what girardi starting over him 15 years ago has to do with anything. not sure why you even brought it up.

      • Will says:

        Do you really think Posada thought he’d look better begging out of a game for that reason than simply taking his place in the lineup?

        Also, I think the timing suggests the mounting build-up of emotion and stress that transpired during the day. Why else would he have accepted the move at first? If he really was miffed, wouldn’t you expect an emotional guy like Posada to exhibit those feelings immediately?

        My point about Girardi starting before him was Posada has always been a team player. He bided his time longer than necessary and he never said a word. Posada has always been a team player.

        • Slugger27 says:

          everyone will be a “team player” when theyre a rookie with no track record. posada in 96 is completely different than posada in 2011. he now has 13 years of a distinguished career and 5 rings on his resume. maybe he feels that entitles him to never have to bat 9th, i dont know. but i do know comparing jorge back in the mid-to-late 90s to jorge now means nothing.

          montero could come up, struggle, get sent back down to AAA, and nobody would feel sorry for him cuz he hasnt done anything yet. hes just a young kid with some promise. him waiting for a position to start doesnt necessarily make him a “team player”, it makes him a rookie with no leverage or track record just wanting to get on the field. apples and oranges.

    • mbonzo says:

      You’re right. The majority of Yankee fans are too impatient to properly analyze a games worth of data, I don’t expect them to take in to consideration 15 years of a player’s career.

      • Slugger27 says:

        at what point is it ok to move a player down in the lineup or give him a diminished role? do you think bernie williams should still be our starting CFer?

        this is professional sports. you perform or you dont play. period. nobody cares about your pride. damon was signed to be our CFer for 4 years. when he proved he couldnt physically handle that, he was moved to LF, and handled it like a man. torri hunter moved to RF for the angels. players performance declines as they get older. some players handle it better than others, yes…. but is it really that out of line for girardi to move posada down 2 spots in the order when hes 39, has a slow bat, and is hitting 165?

        • nobody cares about your pride.

          I care about Jorge’s pride. Jorge cares about his pride. I hope Girardi and Cashman care about Jorge’s pride as well.

          I don’t want Girardi or Cashman to let Jorge’s pride prevent them from making decisions in the best interest of the team, and I’m happy that they didn’t, but that doesn’t mean they should totally not give a shit at all about the personal feelings one of their players. Even if those personal feelings are petulant and wrongheaded. There’s a way to be firm and do what’s best for the team without taking steps to publicly show him up and make his already injured pride even worse.

          When I do something embarrassing and dumb, I appreciate my friends and family not saying to me “Man, that was some embarrassing, horrendouly stupid shit you just did, bro, you must feel like an ass right now. HEY, EVERYBODY, COME LOOK AT THIS STUPID EMBARRASSING SHIT TOMMIE JUST DID!!” I appreciate their counsel and firm instruction when necessary, but I also appreciate them showing me that they understand how hard it is for me to cope with situations that are hard to cope with.

          Just because you can say something doesn’t mean you have to say something.

          • Slugger27 says:

            ok, perhaps i should amend the comment:

            people care a little bit about your pride and generally wants you to feel respected, but nobody is going to let your pride stand in the way of the team.

            even having said that, i guess i just dont see what the yankees did that was so demeaning to jorge. cashman told jorge and his agents what he was going to say to the media: that jorge asked out of the lineup for a non-injury reason.

            what the hell is so bad about that? i mean, i agree with what your 3rd paragraph about not kicking someone when theyre down… but really, what the hell did the cashman really say or do that was so bad?

          • Bob Stone says:

            I second that opinion.

    • forensic says:

      Thanks for the advice. I think next week I’m going to tell work they need to pay me $10 million dollars AND include plenty of mental health days. They should have no problem with that right? Maybe I’ll just negotiate them down to only the mental health days…

    • The209 says:

      your talking about fans that grew up caring almost as much about their fantasy baseball teams than the real ones they watch

      • MannyGeee says:

        moreso, b/c guess which catcher just got cut this morning from my team?? (give you a hint, rhymes with .168 BA)

    • greg says:

      and how did that “mental health day” work out for him??

  26. LarryM.,Fl. says:

    Posada in my opinion made a bad decision. It was the perfect opportunity for him to show his true Yankee pride and not his selfish ego. Unfortunately, the team is playing like crap and the time for the veteran has come and gone. Why would the Yankees resign an aging player who showed that he’s first team second.

    IMHO he can still rewrite this last year of his Yankee career. I can remember a player who wore number 7 on his back and in the later years played RF and 1st base like a true team player.

  27. forensic says:

    What amazes me about this is how people can still support posada. The similarities between this situation and the nomar situation in 2004 are intriguing, and there isn’t a single person who didnt say nomar quit on them. since there’s zero chance of a trade for him, I say just release him or cut a deal for him to save a little face and retire somehow.

    • The similarities between this situation and the nomar situation in 2004 are intriguing…

      Not really, no. There’s a world of difference between a guy with trade value in the middle of his productive career asking out of the lineup on a personal huff and a guy with 17 years of service to the one and only club he’s ever played for doing the same thing at the end of his career when he’s washed up and struggling to cope with that reality (while in the last year of his hefty contract).

      I think you’re overstating the similarity.

      • A-Rod's Wingman says:

        Nomar played in the roids era where players in their late 30s can still be productive.

        • And he wasn’t even in his late 30s yet. Nomar had been 31 for all of 8 days when the Sox traded him to the Cubs in 2004. He had a .321/.367/.500 tripleslash at the time of the trade.

          Nomar was a just-turned 31 year old shortstop with a 118 OPS+ who was a free agent at season’s end and wanted a fat, Jeter/ARodesque extension.

          The more I think about it, the more dissimilar the situations sound.

    • Preston says:

      Totally disagree. How is the team best served by cutting Jorge Posada? I think right now the best thing to do is sit Posada against lefties. Andruw Jones can DH those games. Yes it’s only 24 AB’s but 0-24 is pretty telling. We always hear how hard it is for Switch Hitters to get out of slumps because they have two swings. Let’s make the job easier for Jorge. He can concentrate on swinging from the Left side. His numbers on that side of the plate aren’t good. But they aren’t so bad that I’d give up on him. If he continues to struggle and we feel Jesus is ready or Eric Chavez comes back healthy and looks like a better option then maybe it’s time to sit him. But I think we are a month or two away from that.

  28. Bill says:

    Jorge has been lucky to be in lineup. the Yankees have been more than patient with him this yr. He needs to realize he’s not the player he used to be. Bad decision by him last night. IMO the Yankees are better without him in the lineup anyway.

    • Slugger27 says:

      i agree with everything you said. while i understand its hard for jorge to cope with his age-related decline, him being dropped all of TWO spots in the order is really not a big deal. with his numbers, hes lucky his spot doesnt belong to montero.

      i feel for the guy, but he needs to get the fuck over it.

  29. Pat D says:

    This is breaking news along the line of AT&T buying out T-Mobile and having no intention of keeping any of the T-Mobile employees they have acquired.

    Oh, wait, that’s right, they haven’t announced the latter part yet.

  30. A-Rod's Wingman says:

    Wasn’t Posada quoted as saying that he didn’t want to hold on for forever because he was worried about his health? He’s worried about all the blows to his head that he took and that he’s worried about being able to function when he was in his 50s and 60s?

  31. emac2 says:

    What exactly did Cashman say during the game?

    I thought he said that Posada wasn’t injured, that he had talked to him but wouldn’t comment on the discussion and that he heard from the Yankees press secretary that POsada would talk about it after the game.

    Did I miss something that Cashman said or are one of these facts in dispute or delicate.

    It sort of seems like Cashman is being blamed because he didn’t predict Posada was going to lie and wait to hear the lie before saying something himself.

    Sometimes I wish George was still here. Instead of leaving the GM to battle the media he could simply send Posada where ever he sent Nettles when he got mouthy.

    Does anyone here older then 12 have any question what George would say about this? Of course the real issue is that Posada wouldn’t have dared do this with a younger George around.

    • Slugger27 says:

      i guess now i know im not crazy, cuz youre wondering the exact same thing im wondering. cashman said nothing disrespectful about jorge, only made some generic statements (that we were going to find out anyway) and refused to go into detail

      It sort of seems like Cashman is being blamed because he didn’t predict Posada was going to lie and wait to hear the lie before saying something himself.

      yes, thats pretty much exactly why hes getting blamed.

      • I’m blaming him because he said something.

        Say nothing. You know Jorge bitched out, and you know that’s a problem. Address that problem with Jorge and Girardi. When Ken Rosenthal asks you for a comment, tell Ken Rosenthal to go fuck himself. You don’t care about Ken Rosenthal having a story, you care about what happens with Jorge going forward.

        Saying anything, ANYTHING, midgame to Rosenthal makes the situation bigger than it has to be.

  32. John says:

    I really can’t comprehend how some fans can defend Posada so vehemently.

    If I was making 10+ million dollars and vastly underperforming while asking for days off because I was stressed, I’d be canned in a heartbeat. Posada isn’t just hitting .250 and having a “down year”. He’s hitting .165 and is arguably the worst DH in the AL at this point.

    I respect Posada and love everything he did for this franchise, but at what point can a 200million dollar team attempting to win a world championship continue to trot such a horrid hitter out there simply because of what he did for the team over the past decade?

    Jorge Posada’s pride isn’t even remotely comparable to the team and its success. It’s not like the Yankees sent him to the minors; they simply moved him down in the lineup. He should be extremely grateful that he even has a lineup spot at this point. f Jorge truly “loved” the Yankees as much as he’s claiming, then he’d fully understand that NO ONE PLAYER IS GREATER THAN THE TEAM AS A WHOLE.

  33. special kid says:

    play posada on the field somewhere- he will be injured in no time

  34. Phil says:

    I don’t condone what Jorge did yesterday, BUT if anyone’s got the right to pull one of these in a career, it’s him. The guy is border line HOF, & he’s basically been told he’s not going to catch anymore, not going to play on HIS team anymore after the year & his deal are up, that there’s a messiah down in AAA that the entire organization can’t wait to bring up to replace him at the drop of a hat, & now he’s dissed by being bumped to hiting last in the order when what he craves & needs is for at least one of the “Baseball People” to reaffirm their love & commitment to him.

    Jorge’s seen this routine play out many times before for a whole bunch of other people who’ve passed through the Yankee clubhouse over the years, & even saw it play out for core guy Bernie Williams, so he knows the drill & knows that if Hal or Hank or maybe Levine didn’t get any the previous night or that last meal they consumed is backing up on them he could come to the park tomorrow & find out he’s been designated & it will all be over. I really feel for the guy. I wish they’d just tell him they love him, need him, & will carry him no matter what through the year, & who knows what about next year, so let’s go get ‘em.

    Hey, it always works in the movies, & I really don’t believe this guy has forgotten how to hit that all that suddenly. He can get it done; he just needs to start small & build on it, & of course, he has to believe what he does will matter to the folks who make the decisions in the suites. I hope he gets to go out on his own terms, & given the chance, I believe he will, & for me, that means he’s still here as a valued PLAYER for the NY Yankees.

  35. MannyGeee says:

    so yeah, hate to be the bearer of bad news… but about 7 of you gave me shit (including Axisa) for questioning whether Jorge would have a difficult time adjusting to life as a DH. he hit 2 HR’s that night and I was ‘proven wrong’… yet here we are.

    so is it at all surprising that a guy who was having difficulties adjusting to a diminished role on the field would blow a nutty when he is dropped to 9th in he order?

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