Soriano shut down with more elbow soreness
ByUpdate (6:08pm): Via Mark Feinsand, Soriano is going to see Dr. James Andrews tomorrow. The Yankees won’t release the MRI results until then, but the team acknowledged that they “showed enough for him to see Andrews.”
Original Post (4:45pm): Via Jerome Preisler, Rafael Soriano has been shut down indefinitely after feeling more soreness/stiffness in his elbow following a throwing session today. He was sent to have his third MRI shortly thereafter, and the results are not yet known. Joe Girardi told reporters that he is concerned about the setup man’s elbow, and there’s obviously no chance Soriano will be coming off the disabled list when eligible (a week from tomorrow). Given the workloads on their current setup crew, it would probably behoove the Yankees to try some of their in-house relief options in something more than mop up duty.
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The Tyler Austin Watch
Well that sucks. And to those who have complained about Raffy: rough start or not, this bullpen is much better with a healthy Rafael Soriano than it is without him.
So. Sick. Of. Soriano.
TJ time yet? It’s inevitable.
This is just Mike hating on Soriano right?
This doesn’t sound good.
Soriano. Marte. Igawa. Feleciano.
$22.5M with of useless relievers. Unreal.
It’s the Yankee way.
Correction: $46,000,194 on Igawa alone.
They may still get something out of Feleciano and Soriano. (God knows what)
At least they got one good playoff run out of Marte but yes its bad.
Yeah can they stop spending money on free agent relievers? The Yankee track record sucks here.
Everyone’s track record sucks on free agent relievers, especially non-closers/
Big money free agent relievers, to clarify.
I call it the “Mo Curse.”
Since they have the best closer in the history of the game they are cursed with bust reliever signings.
It’s a theory..LOL
Yeah, I was referring to just this year’s payroll. That’s basically Cliff Lee right there.
I minor point since the money is paid regardless, but Igawa should not be in this group. He was not signed as a reliever and was not used as a reliever. He was signed as a starter. They have yet to even attempt to see if he could be a reliever because they have not wanted to open the roster spot for him and pay the luxury tax.
I’m hating this signing more and more each day.
Carl Pavano- part deux
And he still gets to live in that nice 15K a month apt with the great NYC views-no worries there.
Stinks for the Yanks. Thank God for Mo.
I believe that is 15K for three (or four) apartments per month.
/abargainattwicethemoney’d
I hate you Randy Levine.
ditto
Deja vu all over again.
I hope this teaches Randy Levine to stay out of the on the player acquisition end of the organization
Good joke.
Dear Randy, Hal & Hank. Leave the baseball
Decisions for baseball people.
Glad we have him over the uncertainty of a draft pick.
There’s a rumor that Soriano doen’t like being a set up man again. Maybe we give him the Vazquez treatment and get the picks next year.
You mean he’d have to first opt out of that sweet deal before the Yanks could offer arbitration. I don’t think step 1 happens if this elbow soreness turns out to be more than just elbow soreness.
Thanks, Randy. We’ll be thinking of you next month when the Rays select #31 while Soriano continues to recover.
Signed, Brian Cashman.
Cashman record on free agent reliever isn’t anything to write home about so easy with the finger pointing.
He hasn’t made a mistake nearly this egregious with a free-agent reliever.
Players get hurt. It happens. Cashman literally signed a free agent reliever this offseason who got hurt in spring training. Soriano was one of the best closers in the game entering the season. Cashman and others have given a lot of money to far lesser relievers (I agree Soriano is overpaid, but $10 mill for a top “closer” is not necessarily any worse than $5 mill for a middling reliever). People just have a hard time getting their heads around the concept of a team with 2x the budget of most other teams having 2x the “closers.”
I didn’t care for the Feliciano signing either. I’d still prefer it to the Soriano deal.
Farnsworth= 17
Marte = 12
Feliciano = 8
Park and Hawkins= 2
And if you want to talk “egregious” when comes to pitching look up Kei Igawa!
Again, none of those mistakes is nearly as egregious as Soriano. And technically, Igawa wasn’t supposed to be a reliever.
But they all add up and what makes it worse is that as an organization they keep doing it over and over again.
And technically, Igawa wasn’t MLB player.
Soriano had more success over a longer period. Paying Jose Guillen $10 mill per can be as egregious as paying A-Rod $30 mill per… that’s what I was getting at.
Im sure there is more.
Your notes, here and above, are framed in the context of Brian Cashman and the bullpen. If so, then you’ll also need to recongize that it was Cashman who opposed Torre’s bullpen strategy of over reliance one one hot arm, ultimately leaving the Yankee pen fatigued, and with no ready replacements. It was Cashman who shifted the Yankees toward looking at more internal options, which includes both Robertson and Joba, and many other fungible arms he stacks up on in the offseason who rotate in to help the pen. Since implementing that strategy, the Yankees have not suffered bullpen burnout and have had one of the top pens in the league.
I point that out since you are knocking an area that really has been a success under Cashman. It’s simialar to the Yankees winning the World Series, but then knocking individual moves that constructed the team. Yup, in baseball, not everything works, which is why a smart GM is going to throw a lot of things against the wall, knowing some will fail. Park? Hawkins? Meh. All fungible. All jettisoned. Marte and Feliciano are part of continuing attempts to lock down a lefty reliever, which is one of the more difficult things in baseball for all GMs. I didn’t really love the signings, but had little concern about them or the other ones, especially because I can see what Cashman is doing. I agree with the overall strategy, even if I don’t always agree with the individual elements.
The Soriano signing is a different story, and that sits on Levine. And unlike Cashman, I don’t know of any other on-field baseball successes he can point to. Do you?
I agree with most of your points, but in fairness Cashman did not publicly question whether Soriano was a very good relief pitcher. He questioned the use of resources, but he didn’t necessarily expect Feliciano and Soriano would be on the DL right now. That’s not an attack on Cashman at all, just that people demonize the Soriano signing to an unreasonable extent. Some people go so far as to claim Soriano has not been a good pitcher on his career… which just flies in the face of reality.
Exactly, Ted. And furthermore, they don’t assign any of the responsibility for Soriano’s injury to his usage pattern — especially so early in the season.
I agree with you, too, Mike. I know of no successes by Levine either.
Why is Randy Levine still a member of the organization?
Seriously, get that MoFo Levine out of here.
I’ve asked this question repeatedly.
I have yet to receive an answer.
Krod to the 8th?
Hopefully not. He’s another blown elbow waiting to happen.
To be honest I’d rather have a setback than more blown leads.
Because the early struggles couldn’t possibly have had anything to do with the injury already negatively impacting his performance, right? This is a guy who never had a healthy season with an ERA over 3, but this season he was going to have an ERA around 6 being 100% healthy? Possible, but is that likely?
As usual, you nailed it, Ted.
Prediction: Soriano spends 2011 and 2012 on the DL, and has a big year in 2013, his walk year.
And he’ll get a 60 million dollar extension over 3 years to be the next closer signed no other by Levine.
You’ll have to kill me now.
Good grief!
/mikeaxisa’d
I’ve officially stopped caring about Rafael Soriano.
I can’t even get upset. It won’t affect the Yankees’ ability to spend one whoever they want to get – if anything, it gives Cashman more pull with Hal, who now has to deal with the shame of actually letting Randy Levine spend money on a player.
It sucks, but hopefully it further improves the process by limiting new player acquisitions to the people you actually hired to make them.
this. Call Soriano a sunk cost at this point, especially if he’s going under the knife.
In all seriousness, as glutenous and ridiculous as it sounds, the Yankees are in a perfect position to wait these (Feliciano/Soriano/Marte) problems out and throw more money at the problem in July. Let’s assume none of those three put on a uniform for the Yankees again.
We can still go for Heath Bell or K-Rod etc. and afford a starter and afford a bat. Our budget can take three contracts on as long as they are for one year and it won’t effect the long term plans of the club at all.
Right now, we have bigger fish to fry.
I’d rather not bother wasting more resources on a reliever. K-Rob and Joba are fine bridges to Rivera. Go get another bat and/or starter.
(Dana Carvey Voice)
Well isn’t this special.
+1
Maybe Kevin Whelan will find his way up at some point
A child has to touch a hot stove just once to know not to ever touch a hot again. Just once.
Given this, I am blown away by the fact that teams (not just the Yankees) continue to give multi-year eight figure deals to relievers. I am absolutely flabergasted that teams every give these deals to non-closers.
The tactic has failed so many times…only to be repeated again the following November/December. Truly breathtaking.
Reminds me of that episode of The Simpsons where the hamster touches the buzzer once and learns its lesson, but Bart keeps on doing it because he’s dumber than the hamster. Barts are running rampant in MLB front offices, apparently.
Soriano is not a non-closer, though. He was one of the best closers in baseball last season, and has a track-record of success for his whole career. What inning the Yankees were pitching him in doesn’t matter.
What inning the Yankees were pitching him in doesn’t matter.
Not according to Soriano.
He also has a track record of injury-proneness.
Still remember that thread where someone was disputing that claim.
Having been injured in the past is not a sure sign someone is more likely to be injured in the future, period.
This is a site where run expectancy is used to call out managers for gut and/or conventional wisdom decisions, but with injuries let’s just go with the gut and/or conventional wisdom?
Along with questioning Soriano’s injury history, the consensus here was also that Garcia’s arm was falling off and Colon wouldn’t make the team. 1 for 3 there so far…
Sometimes they are unrelated, sometimes common sense would suggest otherwise. Depending on your injury, you can actually become more susceptible to further injury – i.e I tore some ligaments in my knee playing soccer in college. The doctor told me I could strengthen the muscles around my knee but that the spot of injury will always be a little weaker than it was initially.
If a guy has a string of “bad luck” injuryies (fouls a ball off his foot or gets concussed on a bad pitch), sure, I see what your saying. But major injuries that affect day to day operations (shoulder / elbow for pitchers) have to be taken under consideration.
Yes, he was a closer — and a very, very good one — last year. But the Yankees weren’t paying him to be a closer on their team. They were paying him to pitch in the eighth inning. They were expending major financial resources (and a first round pick) on a middle-reliever. The top middle reliever in their bullpen, but a middle reliever nonetheless.
And my point is teams that expend major resources on relievers in general and relievers who will not close for their team, have consistently come to regret it.
Again, why is the 9th innings 5x or 10x more valuable than the 8th innings? I just don’t see it. It’s ok to pay a guy $10 mill for the 9th, but don’t pay him for the 8th?
The line between “closer” and “middle-reliever” is just not as neat and tidy as you imply. High leverage innings are high leverage innings. People here constantly argue that the best reliever should be used earlier than the 9th, then when the Yankees use a good reliever before the 9th they cry about that… see the contradiction?
“my point is teams that expend major resources on relievers in general and relievers who will not close for their team”
So if the Yankees had not re-signed Mo and expected Soriano to close they’d be regretting this less and not more? See why that’s an illogical argument?
I see what you’re saying Ted but I think you’re leaving one point out. The problem with Soriano is not his annual salary (imo), but the overall contract. On top of getting paid top dollar he also has the organization by the balls with multiple opt out clauses. What’s illogical, and what I think a lot of folks here are upset with, is how much the team sacraficed in order to obtain a chip that even on a brilliant season only adds about 1.5-2 WAR.
randy levine:
fuck you.
We need Alec Baldwin’s character from Glengarry Glen Ross to get Levine back in order
Blake: You’re name Levine?
Levine: Yea
Blake: You think you know baseball you son of a bitch
Whoever was responsible for this deal should be fired and if it was Hank and Hal then they should not make another baseball decision ever again. Cashman didn’t want to give him all that money and now we’re stuck with him. Now we’ll need another relief arm on top of a right fielder and a DH and what if a starter gets hurt? Cashman’s gonna have his work cut out for him.
going to see dr. james andrews = walking the green mile
Well, at least Phil Hughes has a role now
Unfortunately Cash$$ cant say I told you so as Randy will throw Feliciano back at Cash$$
What sucks is that we lost a chance to draft someone real special in this great draft, we practically ensured that Soriano will be rehabbing this and next years for 20 plus Mill and Feliciano will have pulled in 8M for services rendered to the Mets.
Very very Poor. I am just happy I have Manchester United to keep me distracted. Go Champions League finals !!
Yes, but at significantly lower cost and he’s left-handed. It was a worthwhile risk.
Add that ridiculous deal where he declined Marte’s 6M option and gave him a 3 year deal then this deal, Cash$$ has sunk a lot on lefty relievers.
He’s significantly less value on his career than Soriano so he makes significantly less money… that’s sort of how it works.
Someone already mentioned this but this really is looking more and more like Pavano 2.0
What about getting Kerry Wood at the deadline again? Cubs will be out of it, and he is on a 1 year deal.
Times like this I wish we still had Tyler Clippard. Look at him owning right now.
So is it safe to say we have move non-Mo reliever money on the DL than we do in the actual pen?
Genious move giving him the third year. At least when he’s out for this year and next year, we’ll still be able to get something out of him
I don’t know why they ever pick up any relievers. The Yankees have shown the ability to develop good homegrown arms for the ‘pen, might as well keep doing it. Think they miss Mike Dunn and Randy Choate right now? Noesi’s been solid, cheap options like Ayala have worked fine, what’s with the $$ blown on the market that has never worked? Mess.
This has gone from ludicrous to plaid.
+bleeps, sweeps and creeps
lol
She’s gone from suck to blow.