2011 All-Star Game Thread
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Now it counts! Seriously, how dumb is it that this glorified exhibition will decide home field advantage in the World Series? I can’t wait for that fifth inning matchup between Aaron Crow and Hunter Pence to decide whether or not the Yankees get to play three or four games in the Bronx come late October, assuming they make it that far of course. Don’t want to jinx it.
That said, the All-Star Game isn’t boring, at least I don’t think so. I just hate that it impacts the World Series. It’s fun to see all the different players and a new pitcher every inning, usually I’m fumbling around MLB.tv to see these guys play, and for this one night they’re all playing in one stadium. That’s pretty cool. Here are your starting lineups…
American League
Curtis Granderson, CF
Asdrubal Cabrera, SS
Adrian Gonzalez, 1B
Jose Bautista, RF
Josh Hamilton, LF
Adrian Beltre, 3B
David Ortiz, DH
Robinson Cano, 2B
Alex Avila, C
Jered Weaver, RHP
National League
Rickie Weeks, 2B
Carlos Beltran, DH
Matt Kemp, CF
Prince Fielder, 1B
Brian McCann, C
Lance Berkman, RF
Matt Holliday, LF
Troy Tulowitzki, SS
Scott Rolen, 3B
Roy Halladay, RHP
The full rosters can be seen here. David Robertson and Russell Martin are the only other Yankees actually at the game and eligible to play after Derek Jeter, Alex Rodriguez, Mariano Rivera, and CC Sabathia backed out. If needed, the two managers have confirmed that Jose Valverde and Brian Wilson will serve as closers, and Valverde apparently rehearsed a new jig should he close out the game. Seriously. Anyway, first pitch is scheduled for 8pm ET and can be seen on FOX. Talk about the game or anything else your heart desires here. Enjoy.
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Youkilis to Millar: cowboy up means walk off against Yanks at Yank stadium, NOT goofing around. Someone’s mad that Cano beated A-Gon last night.
Wait. What did Millar say about cowboying up? I’m confused.
Millar asked Youkilis why was the fans screaming cowboy up to him? Youkilis explained cowboy up to him, since Millar started the whole cowboy up when he was with Boston.
over/under: 3 2001 World Series Game 7 references by BuckCarver?
I say =, three sounds about right,
Arizona is the host city and that’s the greatest moment in the franchise’s history. Get used to hearing it.
Of course. I’d be surprised of they didn’t bring it up once. But you know that McBuck will milk the hell out of this opportunity.
They’ll also find a way to bring up 2004 a few times. More than a few.
Without a doubt.
Way over. And to be fair, the ASG is kind of about celebrating the home team, and that’s unquestionably the best moment in Diamondbacks history. I just had a problem with them showing it while the Yankee prospect was up at bat in the Futures Game.
Yeah, that really grinded my gears.
We did get to see Romine’s go-ahead RBI single though.
http://m.espn.go.com/mlb/story.....ocalId=nyc
This is the dumbest controversy ever. Who gives a shit if Jeter shows up or not? It’s the guy’s 12th selection. People say, “oh the fans want to see him!”. Ummm hello?! They have had the opportunity to watch the past decade and a half in the post season and All star game (and Jeter is far more impressive in the post season than for the 3 innings he plays in a dumb exhibition game). People need to get the fuck over it and look for something else to complain about.
Why should he be required to fly 5(?) hours to Arizona. Wave to the crowd. Then fly 5 hours back to NY. That is so draining and stupid. The guy gets 3000 hits. Big fucking deal. Let him chill with his family and Minka for a few days. Respect his decision.
Also ref: Troy Tulowiski LMAO “Im Jeter’s biggest fan!”
And ref to
One Yankees fan I work with wouldn’t stop complaining about how Jeter wasn’t playing yesterday, he said it was a baseball travesty and he should be ashamed. I told him Jeter doesn’t play for baseball he plays for the Yankees, and I think it takes a greatly humble man to sit out an allstar game and miss out on the limelight of a such personal achievement for the better of his own team. He didn’t say a word, as he shouldn’t.
I don’t think Jeter’s particularly humble, and your explanation is likely giving him way too much credit. But I understand him not wanting to play – I understand any player not wanting to play. And if he went and didn’t play, and I saw some talk about him throwing out the first pitch/generally getting celebrated, he’d definitely get slammed for that. I kinda can’t believe this is even a controversy. (And yes, I know I’m giving it attention by talking about it.)
I think the average player would want to be in the allstar game after such a huge milestone. It appears Jeter is not playing so that he can rest and make sure he’s healthy when the season starts back up. To me he’s passing on the standing ovation and praise he’s most likely get from the Arizona crowd so that he could get some extra rest for the Yankees. If I was in his shoes I’d be playing that game simply because the attention would be awesome.
People (i.e., self-important sportswriters) are pissed because they’re upset that the All Star Game is turning into the NFL Pro Bowl: utterly irrelevant and an uninteresting afterthought.
What they fail to grasp is that the ASG turning into the irrelevant and uninteresting Pro Bowl was pretty much unavoidable. Because (dirty secret!) the ASG is pretty irrelevant and uninteresting.
There’s multiple reasons why the ASG was a bigger, more central showcase event three decades ago (and more) than it is now; reasons such as the scarcity of televised access to MLB games, the lack of interleague play, the lower salaries of ballplayers, lower leverage of ownership, and concurrent lessened financial/competitive detriment if injury to a star player occurs; lack of cable TV fragmentation of viewership and fan interest, etc.
When I was 7, the ASG was appointment viewing because it was my only chance to see some of these great players play and I had nothing else to do.
Today, I can waste my time in a billion new ways and watch 17 hours of Asdrubal Cabrera game footage in HD with three mouse clicks and a credit card number.
Why should I really care about a game that doesn’t count that also doesn’t feel like a real baseball game played between two teams I don’t have a familial loyalty to?
(And yes, it still doesn’t count.)
It’s an abomination that Jeter isn’t there to tip his cap. That lone gesture would be enough to solve world hunger and Jeter wants no part of it. Disgraceful.
I would hope that this comment makes use of sarcasm and embellishment.
National league lineup looks a lot better to me.
lol at Rolen and his sub-.280 OBP being the starter though
Any reason he’s starting over Sandoval?
Oh he must have been voted in, brain fart. Voters really messed that up.
He’s the replacement for the replacement. Polanco got hurt, Aramis was supposed to start, then he got hurt.
So Bochy piced Rolen’s .675 OPS over the Panda’s .844 OPS? I know Sandoval was injured but Rolen only has 49 more plate appearances. Another reason why this game is a joke.
Bristol
Sandoval was injured earlier?
Bochy picked Brian Wilson as the closer over Joel Hanrahan or Craig Kimbrel. Shocking, I know.
Could be that Brian Wilson is the better closer. Would you pick Kimbrel over Mo based on ERA?
Don’t compare Brian Wilson with Mariano Rivera. That shit it is not even funny. Kimbrel should close.
I bet Mo could grow an even better beard if he wanted to. Never doubt that man.
Thats not the point. Mo and Wilson were pretty much the best closers going into the season. Kimbrel has 66 IP to his name. You’re too enamored by small sample size.
Once again you go with the comparisons. Mo is the greatest of all time while Wilson in just another good closer who hasn’t even been that great this year. I would take Kimbrel tonight over Wilson.
Theres not comparison here. Mariano was the best closer from the AL and Wilson the best from the NL. Sure Mo is the best, but what I’m saying is that a slight difference in ERA over half a season doesn’t make a difference when we’re talking about closers because they don’t pitch enough for their numbers to be significant over a few months. By your logic Valverde should be starting over Mo because he has more saves over the last few months. Thats a joke, its small sample size. Kimbrel is a kid who has a bright future, but Wilson has been the best current NL pitcher over his career and deserves to close despite what a 23 year old has done in a few months.
Mo gets to be the closer because he is Mo and he has legacy and still the best closer regardless of the number of saves. Also, Brian Wilson has been a good closer for all of 2.5 years so that is not what I would call some amazing career. Also, Heath Bell has been as good or better than Wilson for a longer period time. However, I guessing he is going with Wilson because Bochy is the manager and that is fine, but the smart choice is Kimbrel and Bell even before Wilson IMO.
He’s gotta go manage the guy for another 10+ weeks after this. Hanrahan and Kimbrel deserve props, but let’s be real.
I say the same thing as when Torre or Girardi made a “controversial” all-star decision: to the victor goes the spoils.
Win the WS, you get to put one or two of your guys on the team.
No problem with that at all.
I would thing Berkman would be more of a prototypical DH than Beltran.
Maybe Bochy is expecting Beltran to get traded to SF and wants to give him a 1/8th of a day off.
I think it was pretty shitty of Jeter to be a no show especially since he was voted in by the fans.
Meh. He’s still nursing that sore calf and could really use the time off.
Why am I not surprised that dalelama is upset at a Yankee for something fairly trivial and unimportant.
Tulo and Cano… pretty talented 8th hitters. Exactly how much power does Joe Torre have with MLB anyway?
I think he has the same job that Bob Watson had?
Like, I think he’ll be the one to determine lengths of suspensions and such.
But I’m probably totally wrong on that.
Who would had thought that Clippard is an All-Star before Kennedy and Joba?
Not me, but I would have never thought his fastball would go from 88 average in 07 to close to 93 this year. Good for him though.
Damn! seriously.
As Clippard, Kennedy, Melky, Axford, Coke, and Dunn have showed, just because a guy isn’t deemed worthy of a 25 man roster spot on the Yankees, doesn’t mean they can’t be valuable to another team. Nor does it mean that the player can’t turn into a good major leaguer.
Kruk just called Bruce Bochy “one of the smarter managers you’ll ever have.”
Whatever floats your boat Kruky.
He is a very good manager and has bee considered one for years
He has managed some pretty good teams, I’ll give him that.
But I don’t like giving managers too much credit for their team’s success.
First pitch isn’t scheduled for 8 PM, Mike. It’s probably scheduled for like 8:45. Duh.
Also, what’s the over/under on the amount of times that BuckCarver mention 1) Jeter not being there and 2) the other 3 Yankees not being there?
I’m going with 5 1/2 and 3 1/2.
If would be totally funny if Jeter actually attended the game and was spotted sitting in the stands.
He’s setting up a surprise!
IT’S A TRAP!!!!!!!!
Is Prince Fielder 5’9″? He looks several inches shorter than Cano, who I think is listed at six foot.
Prince is 5’11″
He is listed at 5’11?. He’s not. For whatever reason, players like to be listed at aleast six foot, so anytime I see a player listed just a little under 5’11?, I’m sure they’re adding an inch or two, but don’t want to go crazy and add three. No way Fielder is more than 5’9? based on that photo next to Cano.
I’d rather have the players list their real heights. More interesting to see “smaller” guys (not that Prince is small by any accounts) to show you don’t have to be tall to play baseball.
Not sure why those question marks popped up. They weren’t questions!
He was listed as 5’11″. I have no idea what his real height is.
Nor do I. I just always figured he was big, both vertically and horitonzally, so was a bit surprised to see he’s average height wise.
Everything looks bigger on TV than in person.
Just saw the season premiere of Curb Your Enthusiasm, and it definitely did not disappoint. Absolutely hilarious. Larry David just gets funnier and funnier over time.
Babe Ruth next to Ortiz! Blasphemy!
And Joe Buck has sounded hoarse this year
Definitely. Either that, or the sound system is making him sound like that.
No he’s sounded like that all year.
Maybe. I try to avoid Joe Buck whenever I can.
From Buck’s Wikipedia entry:
Vocal cord ailment
In 2011, shortly after broadcasting Super Bowl XLV for Fox, Buck developed a virus on the nerves of his left vocal cord. Despite the ailment, which according to Buck “came out of the blue” and has hampered his ability to raise his voice, he has continued to broadcast baseball for Fox during the 2011 season.[20
Nice research. As much as I don’t enjoy listening to Buck, that is too bad for him. Might be time to start mixing in a new go to guy for Fox though.
Enter Gus Johnson
I though he was sounding even more monotone and emotionless on the broadcasts, so I ran across some mentions of his vocal cord issue. As much as I’m not a fan of his baseball broadcasts, I really am not wishing he lose his voice since that’s how he makes his living.
The opening montage had babe ruth standing next to big papi… What a crock of shit, glad jeter didn’t go to this garbage
HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA
HA! Buck FAIL!!
The real reason for the Jeter-flap:
Every sportswriter in America wrote articles in advance blasting A-Rod for skipping the All-Star game. When he elected surgery, they realized they couldn’t use them, but no one wanted to waste all that eloquent prose. A few search and replaces, and boom, Jeter roasted.
Just for the lulz here is the wiki for the 2011 World Cup of American Football. Guess who is dominating?!?!?
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2011_IFAF_World_Cup
Did Robertson have to show ID to get into the stadium?
No but a lot other players did
/Arizona’d
haha
of course the Yanks gets booed in Arizona.
They sould be applauding us. We gave them their moment.
I guess 2001 is still a fresh memory. Even though they won.
dudes…Johnny Venters looks old. Looks like a 10 year vetern.
Arizona was completely unaware of who to cheer and who to boo.
I was just going to write a comment about that. They loved Reyes, Yadier Molina and Polanco, didn’t have much of any anyone else except hating division rivals and the Yanks.
Except Cano. They cheered Cano
I guess they respect the show he put on last night.
I think they still remember Curtis Granderson hitting all those homers against them in the 2001 World Series
They don’t seem to like Prince.
They’re still pissed about him not picking Justin Upton for the Home Run Derby.
He was just pulling a doubleswitch to show the excitement of NL strategy.
With good reason. Anybody would have rather seen Justin Upton than Rickie Weeks who totally bombed.
I’m pissed that Prince didn’t pick Justin Upton’s teammate, Wily Mo Peña, who is the 8th best homerun hitter in Boston Red Sox history.
Biggest travesty in Home Run Derby history?
Biggest travesty in Home Run Derby history.
I’m pretty sure that Brian Wilson is more scary awkward than funny. Not sure why people think he is funny. Maybe they are too scared to have any other reaction.
He’s baseball’s Zach Galifianakis.
You mean having his moment and being completely overrated afterwards.
Did the fox guy ask cano what the yankees have to do to catch boston?
One game back?..
Hate fox
If by the Fox guy, you mean Mark “Slumpbuster” Grace, then yes.
I think all of the mainstream media love for the Red Sox has turned much of the country against them much like the Yanks.
Boston fans have to accept that they are the bad guys now. Although the Red Sox still havre ESPN in their pocket.
DH rules in an NL ballpark. Is this a first for an AS game?
Yes.
Jered
Going to get bombed tonight.
Where double duece ?
Philipi missing a camera opertunity.
When will these singers learn to just sing the damn anthem straight and not flutter!
Thisssssss
Never.
Interesting Joe said that last part straight in Arizona.
My God, McBuck only had all year to prepare for the opening segment…
Two syllables in & already a clusterf*ck
Geez. They make it sound like the AL has Sidney Ponson and Kyle Davies relieving Weaver.
Well…
Wait, Sidney Ponson isn’t pitching tonight? Fuck this shit I’m out.
They should have an ASG of the game’s best hitters against the game’s worst pitchers. First team to 25 runs wins.
The game would be over by 5 innings, tops.
I would totally enjoy that more than this
MTV Rock ‘N’ Jock Softball >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> The Midsummer Classic
Seriously, Bill Bellamy and Dan Cortese are way more entertaining than half of these boring-ass baseball players.
I can remember when young Prince Fielder caught the final out in the 1993 or 1994 game.
Who hit the ball? Cecil Fielder, of course.
Nah first inning. To complete and inning you have to get outs remember?
And then a separate game where the game’s best pitchers face the game’s worst hitters. The first team to give up 5 hits loses.
did joe buck really just say mo is closing the game??
As meh as Washington can be at times, Bochy’s awfullness basically guarantees this for the AL.
Over/Under 2.5: number of ‘Moneyball’ trailers tonight?
Over
Way, way, way over.
lol, damn. i’d suck as a bookie, methinks.
Either that, or I suck as a gambler.
there’s number 1 @ 8:55pm
#2 at 10:35pm
(although it was also mentioned twice during the telecast by Buck so far, too)
#3 was after the end of the game but before trophy presentation, so I’m not sure what the verdict is..
First pitch swingin’
Curtis, we hardly knew ye…
I wonder how many inning doc goes
He really is the best in the game
They usually won’t let them go more than three.
Second batter up, Jeter not being at the game already mentioned.
how can anyone really vote agon MVP over joey bats?
He is hitting .350 and leads the AL in rbis
And Bautista leads in everything else, almost literally. Can’t punish a guy because his teammates suck.
Yes you can.
Fine.
Can’tSHOULDN’T punish a guy because his teammates suck.You can, but then you’d be making up your own rules.
How many MVPs have come from under or a little over .500 teams?
Alex Rodriguez is one.
SO is Ernie Banks. Anybody else in the almost 80 years of this award.
Andre Dawson in ’87, Cal Ripken in ’91.
Player A: 403 PA, .354/.414/.591, .429 wOBA, 172 wRC+, 4.8 fWAR, 4.9 bWAR
Player B: 376 PA, .334/.468/.702, .487 wOBA, 215 wRC+, 6.6 fWAR, 6.6 bWAR
Which player would you rather have?
Kirk Gibson 1988
(checks watch)
Yup, it’s still 2011.
So?
So what’s done is done. In 1988, Felix Hernandez would never have won the Cy Young with a 13-12 record, but that’s what he did last year in 2010.
Times change. People change. Hairstyles change. Interest rates fluctuate, who knows?
Kirk Gibson winning the MVP in 1988 does not mean that Adrian Gonzalez can/should/will win the MVP in 2011 over a guy who is currently slugging .702.
If Jose Bautista didn’t reach base in his next 48 plate appearances, he’d still have a higher OBP and SLG than Adrian Gonzalez.
HAHAHAHAHAHA I LAUGHED SO HARD AT THIS.
domination.
And some old-world BBWAA members would fall to that if the season ended today. Of course, Bautista (who is “only” hitting .334) is destroying Gonzalez in the meaninful categories, leading the league in HRs, walks, OBP (.468), SLG (.702) total bases (351) and OPS+ at 217. It’s not even close.
I look to Kirk Gibson in 1988
Cheers, The Facts of Life, and Family Ties were all still on the air when that happened.
What’s your point? It still happened.
So did communism.
Sorry, he’s leading in total bases at 210. If he really had 350 now, they would just give him the award now!
…and updating my update, that’s good for second. Should stay away from the tequila! But, seriously, Bautista is the easy leader at the All-Star break. There’s another nearly 80 games to go, though.
I actually want the NL to win because I know we can win in an NL Park, but the Red Sox cant as shown in interleague play (except agaisnt the Astros)
Jose Bautista is the first half AL MVP you fucktards.
BUT TEH RBIS!!!!
Disagree. Pains me to sy but Gonzalez has been in beast mode all season.
So has Joey bats…
Bautista bests him in every category except RBIS and AVG
you do realize that Agon lead the league in RBI and BA
while joey bats leads in HR, BB, OBP, SLG, OPS, OPS+, and IBB
THis will be a case where record oversees this if the Red Sox end up with the best record.
Greg, if YOU had a vote, who would YOU vote for?
Not the horribly biased ESPN media machine you loathe so much, just you. Who would you pick?
I would pick Gonzalez. The fact that Adrian Gonzalez is hitting .350, is the most productive player in the AL and plays better defense than Bautista,(even when AGon was in San Diego).
Plus the fact that the Red Sox are ahead of the Blue Jays in the standings doesnt hurt either.
It pains me to pick him, but that’s who I pick.
Of course we are at the midpoint and things can happen.
Look Josh Hamilton won the MVP last year and he didn’t play a whole month.
Adrian Gonzalez is not “the most productive player in the AL”.
Adrian Gonzalez is having a great year.
Jose Bautista is having one of the 25 best seasons in major league history.
http://insider.espn.go.com/mlb.....season-mlb
YOu reminded me of another point. The fact that Bautista plays in Canada will not help him at all.
Again, I’m not asking you for your opinion of what other voters will do, just you.
Does Bautista playing in Canada make him a less-worthy candidate in YOUR eyes, Greg?
No I know that
I pick Gonzalez because the Red Sox are currently the best team in the American League, the fact that he is hitting over .350, and the fact that he has driven in the ost runs in the AL.
Batshit insane.
And as for sabermetrics, I dont care about them. Sabermetrics have never led directly to a championship. Those “Moneyball” teams never won a title.
You’ve got to be fucking kidding me.
I’m absolutely serious. Those “Moneyball” teams were mostly constructed by sabermetrics and the A’s didn’t win a thing.
Now sabermetrics COMBINED with the old way will lead to titles and this has been the case, but sabermetrics ALONE dont win titles.
It’s amazing how you can know so little about so much.
Hey Greg, ESPN wants to hire you as an analyst based solely on that comment.
What about 2004, 2007 and 2009?
Those teams didn’t win with sabermetrics, they won with sabermetrics combined with
large budgets able to buy good players“the old way”.Sincerely,
Theoretical Greg
Those teams were not FULLY built on sabermetrics. The A’s, because they had a low salary, had to use this method to its highest extent.
Sabermetrics has nothing to do with team budget.
Sabermetrics and the A’s strategy of finding and pursuing undervalued market assets as described in Moneyball are not the same thing.
Sabermetrics ≠ Moneyball ≠ The Oakland A’s
No team is FULLY built on sabermetrics. It’s not like the A’s fired all of their scouts and just used spreadsheets to make trades and draft picks.
Kirk Gibson 1988
We love joey bats
HGH producers of south america
I know you’re being sarcastic, but Bautista has never been tested positive for steroids. And everyone takes those tests frequently.
There is no way HGH could quadruple your homerun output.
It’s not even clear if HGH in the absence of steroids even helps professional athletes in any way at all.
Totally agree my dog
Barry Bonds
Barry Bonds was spectacular before the PEDs.
THIS so much. He’s an inner-circle hall of famer, fuck the self-righteous writers who say otherwise.
Sure, but those seasons after he started PEDs were different. Specifically talking about HRs, here are his AB/HR by year. Notice anything different after 1998 when he went on steroids? (For the record, 1999 was his age 34 season)
Year AB/HR
1986 25.8
1987 22.0
1988 22.4
1989 30.5
1990 15.7
1991 20.4
1992 13.9
1993 11.7
1994 10.6
1995 15.3
1996 12.3
1997 13.3
1998 14.9
1999 10.4
2000 9.8
2001 6.5
2002 8.8
2003 8.7
2004 8.3
2005 8.4
2006 14.1
2007 12.1
Barry Bonds still would have been a first ballot hall of famer.
Your phrasing suggests that he still will be a first ballot HOFer…
I agree that he was a HOFer (and probably destined to get in on the first ballot), but that doesn’t mean he wasn’t helped significantly by steroids.
He definitely was helped. But the immense talent was still there.
Amazing what a protein shake can do
David Ortiz
You can say the same thing about Lance Armstrong.
And Barry Bonds.
And Roger Clemens.
CGSO for Halladay. Heard it here first.
Incarcerated Bob?
Jeter not there mention and “no question” AGon is the MVP in the top of the 1st.
Yea, I think I’ll only be flipping to this game for the rest of the night. If I miss something, oh well.
ninja
They should spice up this game by having Weaver start throwing apples in the 2nd inning.
Quick! How many times can you incorrectly say that Agon is the MVP?
A-Gon clear first half MVP: Obvious troll obvious
Weavers brother was one of the worst Cashman signings ever. Jeff was a steaming pile of crap as a yankee.
That’s why we now have a strict “No Weavers” policy to go with our strict “No Braves Pitchers” and “No Fat Chicks” policies.
That was a trade.
both Florida teams is the answer
Did the Rockies host an All Star game?
i was thinking bout that, but they must have at some point.
because i don’t remember an AS game in TB or Miami
1998
That is what I was thinking since they both play in steaming piles of crap.
got it
Roy Halladay reminds me a lot of David Robertson with insane command.
Why is drob in?
Timmy just said because he can warm up quickly.
Drob instead of Beckett because of an injury?
This is incredible
David Robertson is in the game already? Wow, this AL team is depleted.
hahaha i would be so happy if Josh Beckett got hurt at the All star game. I’m hoping he tore his ACL warming up
enter my conspiracy theory about Washington abusing D-Rob….
where are ya, Bexy?
Drob is gonna finish the game.
I’m reading this thread now, but yep he really got abused. Totes.
Foul
Nice call Buck! Lol
AL first-half MVP makes great catch.
That can’t be good for the Red Sox.
Also, why the hell did Weaver only go one inning?
Ron Washington is high off of crack cocaine. RIGHT NOW
Damnn Bautista just earned a small notch of respect for me there
He’s no Kirk Gibson 1988, though.
It happened. You cant change it.
Doesn’t mean you have to repeat the same mistake either.
History repeats itself.
Not if you learn from mistakes.
If he hits .320 or above and drives in over 120 runs and the Red Sox finish with the best record i the AL, he will win MVP
Doesn’t mean he should.
Say Gonzo hits .360 with 125 RBI, but Jon Lester and Josh Beckett’s injuries linger and the Sox slip to third place and miss the playoffs. Should Gonzo still win the MVP?
Where are the Blue Jays in this simulation? and where is Bautista in this simulation?
Let’s say the Blue Jays are in 4th, 7 games behind the Sox. And Bautista is “only” hitting .320, but his OBP is 40 points higher and his slugging is 100 points higher. 20 additional homers, 10 fewer RBI.
I still don’t even know what this “Kirk Gibson 1988″ reference even means, vis-a-vis Gonzo v. Joey Bats 2011.
Kirk Gibson in 1988 lead the NL in bWAR, despite having FEWER homers and RBI and a LOWER batting average than some of the other contenders (i.e. Will Clark, Andy Van Slyke, Darryl Strawberry, Andres Gallaraga).
In this argument, Kirk Gibson is the proxy for the rightful winner based on sound statistical representations of true production (Bautista), not the incorrect selection based on flawed counting stats and outmoded statistical models (Gonzo).
Greg is arguing against his own case.
What I meant about Kirk Gibson is that at the time, most people believe and still believe to this day, that that was an absolutely stupid choice for MVP.
The least statistical person can win the MVP.
In that case, becasue people didnt know bWAR at the time, it had to do with the fact that the Dodgers winning the NL West.
And again, that would argue that Joey Bats can win over Adrian Gonzalez, because he’s the “least statistical” person.
And the people who believe Gibson was a stupid choice for MVP are wrong, Gibson had an excellent season and was a perfectly justifiable choice in 1988.
What I’m saying is that the record of a team is an important aspect in choosing an MVP.
While Gibson was statistically inferior, his team won the NL West.
I don’t understand why you’re rewarding/punishing a player for things beyond his control (his teammates, front office decisions, etc).
Because that’s what happens.
Only one person in 80-90 years has won the MVP on a last place team. (Ernie Banks).
It might be wrong, but that’s the thinking.
Andre Dawson, 1987. Cal Ripken, 1991. Alex Rodriguez, 2003.
I agree with this
Although the argument you could make for a great player on a crap team gettig snubbed is, “If his team can get third with him, how was he valuable?”
That argument also affects teams like the Yankees and Red Sox who are full of great players. For these the players can get snubbed if you have the mindset, “Well look Gobzalez’s teammates. He’s on a great team. They probably make the playoffs without him. How was he valuable?@
Just because ‘that’s what happens’ doesn’t mean that you have to agree with the decision.
Why do YOU think that a player’s teammates should impact their chances of winning an MVP?
Gibson’s team winning the NL West was probably the tiebreaker amongst several good and similar candidates that year.
If Tom Brunansky would have hit .334/.468/.702 with 50+ homers, 35+ doubles, and 350+ times on base in 1988, though, he probably would have beaten Kirk Gibson, even coming from a shitty, fourth place Cardinals team.
After all, Andre Dawson won the exact same award from a last place Cubs team just the year before.
That Dawson pick is weird considering his BA, his WAR and his RS.
Now before I get called a hippocrit, I think Sabermetrics can help, but they are not the be all and end all
Again, Greg:
Sabermetrics is not a roster-building strategy. What the A’s did under Billy Beane is not “sabermetrics”.
Sabermetrics is a revolution in player evaluation to better capture on-field value with a better collection of statistical measures. It’s not something the A’s developed or spearheaded. It’s just something they used.
The A’s under Beane (as described in Moneyball) used the theory that the baseball market undervalued certain assets to try and find good players that were likely to be underpaid, to build an effective roster cheaply.
Any success or failure they had in that endeavor is not a validation or criticism of sabermetric stats like OBP or wOBA or wRC+ or WAR, because they’re not the same things.
This whole argument is STUPID. We all know who the MVP will be:
Eduardo Nuñez.
Unless Golson gets called up this week. Then things will get interesting. THEN we can have this great debate.
nunez fan agrees wholeheartedly
Joe Buck shows way too much emotion while broadcasting. He really needs to tone it down. /s
That Beckett is sooo selfish. Totally disrespecting the fans by not sucking it up and pitching.
Surpsised Weaver only went one inning. Is Washington going one pitcher per inning?
He had a problem with his foot or something.
David Robinson = Brandon Arroyo
The puma lost a lot of weight
Theres the puma we remember.
DROB AND CANO!
Yeah D-Rob!
way to stay with him cano
lol Lance
Okay, he was tagged out like four times after he overslid the bag.
DRob is a true Second Inning Guy.
David Robertson: 2nd Inning Guy!
Berkman musta thought this was like the Pro Bowl where they don’t tackle here.
No, Lance, we don’t ‘pretend’ to apply tags at the AS game.
Agree/Disagree: K. Olbermann’s baseball analysis is terrible.
He knows alot, but he seems — since last year — to have invested deeply in the idea that the Yankees are on the verge of complete collapase, so on that matter alone I find it difficult to keep reading him.
Anyone get the feeling that Torre is gonna take over for Selig after 2012?
Nope.
Big sloppy FAIL
The Phillies lost that game where Lee hit that home run.
Oh good
God I hate lee.
And his fat wife
you mean his fat hick wife.
/fix’d
Here comes thenjeter slam
Yay another Jeter isn’t at the ASG reference.
Leave it to Fox to find a way to bash the Yankees at the ASG.
What did you expect?
Pineda can go triple digits on the gun
… man seriously.. stop it already
Oh boy, here we go with Derek Jeter again. Fuck you, BuckCarver.
Wow slamming jeter that three references so far
Dare they mention that Jeter and Mo are nursing injuries. CC was snubbed until the last second.
Joe Buck, Please shut up.
The bottom of the 3rd is designated as ‘Bury the Captain’ segment
Been a pretty quick game so far.
I love how everyone complained that Jeter made the allstar team, they said he didn’t deserve to be there. Now that he doesn’t go they get all pissed.
LOL Jeter didnt show up for Gene Monahan’s retirement party either. Class Act
/Media’d
Who would you rather have, Pineda or Strasburg
Strausberg’s ceiling>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>Pineda’s ceiling (unless he learns how to throw a changeup)
This missed “national celebration” stuff for Jeter is so over done and hypocritical – AZ crowd would have booed all the Yankees but then cheer Jeter cause he is “different”. Jeter is ultimate Yankee – why shouldn’t he be booed, too?
AZ, take your cheers and shove them.
Also all these same people saying Jeter had to go were also complaining about him being selected in the first place.
Curtis Granderson is so awesome.
Curtis I love u so much more now!
What’d he do?
he went all King Booker on us
Suck it Cliff Lee.
For tonight I heart A-Gon.
Ha. Fuck you Cliff Lee.
What are pineda’s #’s compared to dellin in AA especially the BB.
<—2 lazy 2 look up.
Pineda is doing MUCH better in the majors than Dellin is doing in AA.
I was talking about minor league stats.
His numbers are Phil Hughes 2006 like in the minors.
Pineda in AA last year (age 21): 0.1 HR/9, 2.0 BB/9, 9.1 K/9,
Betances in AA this year (age 23): 0.8 HR/9, 4.3 BB/9, 10.6 K/9
Cliff lee lovebtakes a big hit
Good job agon you dirt bag
PeteABe must be swooning.
“WE ONLY DO IT WEN IT COUNTS”
-Sawx fans
Lol Prince
Lol Prince
I’d be cheering for A-Gon more right now if FOX wasn’t giving him a verbal bj from the first second the camera was on him.
Cliff Lee’s team is too old for him to play on. Its not fair.
Has anyone seen jeter??? Rumor has it he didn’t make the trip for the game??
I do find it interesting that 4 of the 5 guys that were selected but are missing the game were Yankees (Mo, CC, Jeter and A-Rod).
Not that I care, but I find it interesting.
Cliff Lee giving up the run and base runners felt so damn good.
Clippard, huh? yikes
Knowing Bochy, I expect the most batshit insane guy to come out of the pen. He will also somehow make all of his closers pitch the ninth.
Ha ha lee pulled in a ASG
Wifey going to need another scoop of icecream
By scoop you bean gallon jug.
AGon is too awesome to hate
I thought Billy Beane wrote Moneyball
/Joe Morgan’d
I thought Billy Beane wrote Moneyball about sabermetrics?
/Greg’d
Rangers third base coach fails again
It would be nice to have Clippard, Melancon and Dunn @ their current performance levels in the bullpen right now.
Holy shit Pence as a rocket. Bautista shoulda Rose’d McCann
Their current performance might not translate to AL East competition.
TROLL!!!!!!
The guy had the ball as Bautista hit 3rd base.. Why in the world would they send him!!!
The third base coach is not an all-star.
Throw in the fact that it’s Pence’s arm too. Terrible send.
Pete Rose would have put the catcher in the hospital. Today’s ballplayers are wusses.
Buster Posey says thank you.
That dammed pompus Jeter he probley wont show up for his hall of fame ceremony either
Willie Mays
Jeter woulda made that play
Jeter would have had that
Ok Justin Timberlake had to be joking right?
He’s just a piece of shit.
I think Timberlake is drunk hahaha.
I’m enjoying it! Blatant sarcasm on his end.
so far that interview was the best moment of this game. “Beer never gets mad at you because you didn’t call beer back!”.
This is the man who Washington picked over CC, folks
Can we sign Wilson and then Hamels? That would be nice. F yo couch posers!
Wilson getting bombed here
Yeah rangers
Like i said wilson not an alstar pitcher
The people of Memphis have no taste apparently in commentating.
“Beer is really the perfect food”
- http://www.tmz.com/2011/06/08/.....mondbacks/
PoS.
Joe Buck has turned into everybody’s whipping boy.
http://www.ipetitions.com/petition/replacejoebuck/
Ron Washington: CJ Wilson > CC Sabathia
Rick James: Cocaine’s a helluva drug
felt that homer coming
CJ Wilson can go suck a cock.
Comment fail and apologies.
CJ Wilson is stinking up the place.
True all star. Hahahaha
This is the same CJ wilson that was selected over CC right???
Now Lee’s boyfriend is getting crushed. I love dis.
Bah, fucking CJ Wilson…
Way to go Wilson. Who woulda thought?
Uhg
That just cost CJ Wilson some money this offseason
Probably from the brothers Stein.
Ya’ll don’t say that!
Turn a smile upside down? What an idiot.
Cocaine’s a HELLUVA drug, Ron.
Michael Kay makes Joe Buck look like Helen Keller.
Was she hot?
I couldn’t tell you.
I wonder when ‘mainstream’ media will realize that Ron Washington is a not an idiot savant, he’s just a dumb f*ck
Didnt think it wasposible but wilson is making me forget how badnhughes was last Asg
What happened with Justin Timberlake? I’m clicking back and forth. (and, yes, I find this thread more amusing than the actual game)
Why was CJ in there pitching?
Because Ron Washington liked him as a lefty out of the bullpen because he’s had experience with that before.
Cause he’s better than CC, didn’t you hear?
Coicane. Ron Washington.
Coca Cola >>> Pepsi
We should be voting for starting managers next year.
Ozzie Guillen. Every year.
Must be fucking awesome to have a (good) baseball player for a dad.
I think Dale Berra might disagree with you.
Pete Rose Jr. and John-Henry Williams maybe too.
No one’s perfect.
Papi’s wife fucked the milkman….can u blame her?
http://s3.amazonaws.com/kym-as.....1293729577
lol, not it’s not.
Clayton Kershaw is so good. So so good.
I was thinking about how much of a package that we could use to pry him away from the Dodgers.
I dont think its going to happen, but a man can dream.
Speaking of the Dodgers, how about the Juan Rivera move?
Probably gonna take Banuelos, Montero, and a younger guy like Williams. We’d also probably have to take on some big contracts. No idea why the Dodgers would even do that.
Yeah dont talk about the replacements McCarver. Talk about David Ortiz’s cute kid.
Big sloppy FAIL
Wow, I just read all of that MVP stuff between Greg and tsjc.
Chill, both of you.
You’re both right. If AGon and Joey Bats continue on their current paths, and their teams do likewise, AGon probably will win the MVP. Why? Because that is how BBWAA voters have traditionally voted.
HOWEVER!
In that same scenario, AGon should not win the MVP, Joey Bats should.
And who knows? Maybe the guys who are picked to vote for AL MVP this year show continued evolution that the last few years’ worth of awards have shown.
But the A’s didn’t win, therefore, wRC+ is a bullshit stat and, thus, Adrian Gonzalez has been a more productive player than Joey Bautista, who is Canadian.
Q.E.D.
Oh for cripes sake.
They’re all your words, my friend.
Sabermetrics ALONE cant win a championship.
I mentioned the Canadian point because I’ve heard this opinion from others.
Sabermetrics ALONE cant win a championship.
Of course not. Sabermetrics is an abstract concept covering statistical analysis. It can’t even field a routine ground ball to short.
It can in my spreadsheet!
I liked Klaw’s tweet when the FOX broadcasters said Adrian Gonzalez was the unquestionably the first-half MVP:
keithlaw
OH MY GOD THEY DID NOT JUST SAY THAT
The fact that Buck and McCarver wholeheartedly agree with Greg should give him pause.
I had this opinion before Buck and McCarver made their statements. Its how I honestly feel.
And putting those two next to my name is an insult upon insults.
Then perhaps you should do something to distance yourself from them.
You can start by learning what Michael Lewis’s book “Moneyball” was really all about.
It was about a ball made of money, right?
I get the fact that a team with no money used a new system to win alot of games. And the fact that this system is now used by alot of teams. But ALONE this system has not won a champioship. Integrating this system along with old fanshioned baseball know how is the way to go. RBI’s and BA are still valuable, otherwise why do we still measure them?
Because there is this group of people called “traditionalists” who just don’t go away and won’t give up on those stats mattering.
There is no “system”. Its not some secret, complex code that you just plug into a computer to win a lot of games. Its simply a way of getting the most bang for your buck by exploiting a particular skill thats underutilized by most of the league. 10 years ago that was OBP, thats no longer the case though.
WTF does ALONE mean? Scouting will always be useful, and NO ONE DENIES THIS (/simmons’d), especially in the minor leagues where statistics tell less of the story due to talent and age variances. Scouting will always be a part of the game, what is less a part of the game is using numbers like RBIs and Wins to determine the value of major leaguers. And that’s a good thing.
(You know the arguments why RBIs, BA, pitcher wins are not very good stats, right?)
RBIs, and pitcher WIns are used because of convention, not because they’re accurate representatives of the talent/value/contributins of players. Those were some of the first stats counted, and baseball is a game of traditional and is very resistant to change. Jeff Francouer said something like “If OBP is so important, then how come it’s not on the scoreboard?” Now it’s on the scoreboard in most stadiums.
I can’t wait to read “The Wit and Wisdom of Jeff Francouer.”
It’ll be as funny as the Chuck Norris Facts books, I’m sure.
Gonzalez is leading the league clearly in one category. Grounding in to double plays. He’s on pace for nearly 40 this year. Bautista leads in getting on base, while Gonzalez…
It would be fitting for him to break Jim Ed’s record.
Totally correct.
But, I can totally understand the frustration over people failing to grasp the idea that the games best player is, by definition, the games most valuable player. It’s tautological. Kind of like saying a tall person is not short.
But for some reason…the debate rages on.
Cano or Posada get my votes. Personally, those are my choices.
Definitely Posada. He’s got the advantage in GRIT factor.
Puerto Ricans (or any Hispanics for that matter) aren’t gritty, though.
That’s why it will be tough to decide between Agon and Bautista; neither of them are gritty.
“That’s why it will be tough to decide between Agon and Bautista; neither of them are gritty.”
Agon plays for the Red Sox. Automatic grittiness
Evolution?! The AL MVP last year played in only 133 games.
What you call evolution, I call regression.
The evolution’s been mainly in the Cy Young voting.
I’m with the Bautista consensus here, but my bet is the writers will go for the time-honored Guy Who Helps You Win a Division choice.
Ok, I can see it somewhat in King Felix as Cy Young because of his peripherals. But an MVP playing in only 133 games in a division that was won in Mid-May? Sorry, not buying it.
The “uplifting story” of his life made him the “MVP,” not a .359 average.
He had the best OPS.
And wOBA.
He was really good in those 133 games though. Led in fWAR by .8. That’s not the be all-end-all stat, but it’s enough to say that he wasn’t a horrible choice.
The 133 games are the problem. Anything could have happened in those games. Also, that is an entire month in which he provided no value.
Yea, and he still put up the numbers he did. And his bWAR was still 3rd best, so, ya know, imagine if he had played another 20 games or so.
He could’ve played worse, brought any of those statistics down as well.
Those 20 games don’t necessarily improve his stats.
But most pressing is that his “value” were only to his statistical line. NOT to fending off divisional foes, NOT to winning a division, NOT to being integral in the field. Borboun was an excellent defensive replacenent.
Hamilton didn’t win b/c of wOBA no matter who couches it that way.
But he led in fWAR too, which is a counting stat.
I was arguing with people on ESPN about Bautista being better than AGon. Looks like I was arguing with Greg. Of course, part of being valuable means having good teammates. If you have bad teammates, then you’re obviously not very good. Eduardo Nunez >>>>>>>> Starlin Castro.
OMG Joe Buck. It’s not “Dee-Angelo.”. It’s pronounced “Dan-gelo”
With the apostrophe, you just roll everything together.
Yeah… no.
Actually, yes you do. In Italian (or any language for that matter), when there is an apostrophe, you just o with it. You combin everything.
My family name used to have an apostrophe in it, but it was dropped eventually after they passed through Ellis Island. Nothing got “rolled together” when it had the apostrophe, but it did after it was dropped.
Your family name was originally Mike’D?
oy vey
What?
Take Italy’s national anthem for example: “Fratelli d’Italia”
It’s not pronounced “Dee-eetahleea”; it’s pronounced “dee-tahleea”. Since Italia starts with a vowel, you don’t say “di Italia” you say “d’Italia”. You combine it, because Italian is a very smooth and flowy language.
And the expression, “there is.”. In Italian, it is c’è. It’s “ci” and “è” put together. You don’t pronounce it “chi” “eh” though. You combine it so it’s “Che” (the “c” is pronounced like the “ch” in cheese, not the “ch” in Chris).
Lamb is “L’angello”. There is a vowel,so instead of saying “il lagnello” you say “l’agnello”
Actually, if you want to get even more technical, it’s pronounced “Dahn-gelo”
Wait, who are we talking about? FWIW, there are lots of people who have D’Angelo for a first name who are not Italian and don’t pronounce it the ‘Italian’ way.
You don’t need to be Italian to have that name. It is an Italian name, so I feel it should be pronounced the proper Italian way.
And many people don’t correctly pronounce names that are culturally diverse.
For example, idiots calling up Francesa to talk about Javy would say “Vaz-kwez” instead of “Vas-kez”
The chocolate company, Ghiradelli is “Gee-ra-deh-lee”. The “g” is hard and to be pronounced like it is in “gate” not soft as it it in “giant”. In Italian, if a “g” ones before “e” or “I” it is soft, unless there Is an “h” between them. Same goes with “c”
You don’t need to be Italian to have that name. It is an Italian name, so I feel it should be pronounced the proper Italian way.
By an Italian, sure. And even then, not always.
Names pass from language to language, though, and get appropriated by the new language to be whatever they choose it to be.
Language is malleable.
If he wants it pronounced “Dee-ANGEL-o”, that’s how it’s pronounced.
Well, Buck is wrong. In my opinion, cultural names should be pronounced in the same way they would be by the native language. If you want it pronounced Dee-angel-o, don’t spell it with a damn apostrophe. Apostrophes take away syllables/vowels.
IDK how Ortiz pronounces it, but Buck got it wrong.
OMG THE HR DERBY SCREWED UP CANO’S SWING!!!1!1!1!1!1!11!!!
Stacking lefties…greatt idea
It’s a HELLUVA drug.
http://www.midwestsportsfans.c.....ne-use.jpg
I feel like Eric Karros has to say “talk to me” a lot.
I’d ask him if realizes his hair looks so fucking stupid.
These former player sideline reporters are absolutely awful. FOX should think about scrapping that. Hire some hot women or something.
Dammed looks like the yankees are going to have to start the WS in philly have to win it in 5 i guess.
Cano and Granderson are out? Then so am I.
Wtf is this pitching?
This Walden dude has an arm, huh?
Some All-Star Trivia:
What do John Olerud and John Burkett have in common? 8 other All-Star player pairs share a similar common bond.
For Burkett and Olerud, 1993 and 2001 were the only All-Star Games they played in. They’re on a list with other 8 other player-pairs who have: Only played in 2 ASGs, played in those ASGs at least 4 years apart, and played their first and last ASGs in the same year. Here are the rest of the players.
http://3.bp.blogspot.com/-2VzH.....Trivia.png
Wait a minute, is Tyler Clippard the pitcher of record? HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!!!!
HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!!!!
Wait: Scott Rolen is an All-Star?
Wow i miss cervelli
que?
is the fist pumping not up to par tonight?
I don’t get it.
Thanks AL West for being awful. If the AL wanted to win this game it should have been limited to AL East players.
If Mark Reynolds was playing, he would have hit 30 HRs in the second inning alone.
If they realign and go to a balanced schedule the yanks and sox will win 100 games each year.
I’m really hoping that Beckett really fucked up his knee, but after just seeing him sitting in the dugout, I guess we’re not that lucky.
Jeter’s action is so outrageous, it may cost him first ballot induction into the HOF
/yankee-hating-media’d
Wait, what?
LOL
I feel defense is very tough to measure statistically.
Think of it this way: if a ball goes to a player, then he should make that play, right? Well, the problem is that who dictates where the player should be standing? The numbers, in my opinion, do not take into account where the player is located when the ball is put into play.
I really don’t understand how you can use numbers when calculating a person’s defensive capabilities. Also, we witnessed a game against the Brewers in which they played a sloppy game, but there was not one error.
I dont get it either
its easy to measure where a ball is, and how a person gets there but every ball hit is at a different speed, every player plays in a little different position there are just so many variables
The numbers, in my opinion, do not take into account where the player is located when the ball is put into play.
It doesn’t matter where he starts, it just matters where he is when he gets to (or misses) the ball.
For example, a SS that moves better to his left would tend to shade hitters more to his right. The fact that he shifts one way or the other shouldn’t really come into play as long as he makes the play.
If you’re a GM and trading for someone, then it’s more complicated because positioning is something that is simple to correct/change, but that’s different than fans trying to compare players.
Walden and wilson
Where are these guys
Danks burley lirano,pavano verlander price shields romero colon gonzales
Heath Bell rocks.
lol those kids had no idea who heath bell was
Who?
They probably had never even heard of the Padres before.
Badass by Molina.
Tip of the cap and then smokes one to left.
What happened to Ken Singelton? Haven’t heard him in the booth in a while.
His mother passed away
Really? Oh, didn’t know that.
He should take off as much time as he wants then.
But he returned for a few games after that.
Poor guy. I like his commentary a lot.
he’s one of the good ones.
Vacation?
This game has officially become unwatchable.
Hey, Perez, you fucking douche, this game counts and you’re down 3 fucking runs.
STOP SMILING!!!
That disinterested bastard
Oh c’mon
I was expecting to hear joe bucks cancer speach end with a jeter slam
And its all Jeters fault.
Tyler Clippard will get the win if it all holds up.
That just shows how asinine the stat is.
BY the way here is a sentence from wikipedia on Moneyball
“Its focus is the team’s modernized, analytical, SABERMETRIC, approach to assembling a competitve baseball team, despite Oakland’s disadvantaged revenue situation”
Use your head. Calling a team’s approach sabermetric in those days didn’t take much. It’s not like the A’s just went out and ignored everything traditional and literally pick a team using nothing but computers. You won’t find anyone here who says that sabermetrics are the end all be all and the only stats that matter.
Furthermore… what is your point? Because they didn’t go 162-0 sabermetrics are wrong?
They didnt win a WS with sabermetrics.
But other teams did.
So sabermetrics are wrong?
News flash… The A’s are not the only team to use sabermetrics. There are actually teams that have won the WS using sabermetrics. I hate to use the example, but the Red Sox are a team that is know for incorporating sabermetrics.
Again you completely miss the point. Sabermetrics are not there to replace, or prove wrong, traditional statistics. They are an aid to tell a more complete story, thus allowing GM’s to make a more educated decision using all the information available to them. And I can almost promise you no team including the A’s has ever said “Sabermetrics are the only set of information we are going to use”
Greg:
A.) Read the damn book. Stop speaking about it from ignorance. It’s not about the A’s using sabermetrics as a way to build a team, it’s about the A’s using sabermetrics to help them find players who were good that conventional statistics didn’t think were good as a player acquisition strategy.
B.) Any success or failure acheived by the Oakland A’s in the late 1990s/early 2000s is not an indictment of modern sabermetric statistics (many of which were not even in vogue a decade ago during the timeframe of that book) as a useful or non-useful way of evaluating whether Jose Bautista is better than Adrian Gonzalez in 2011. The two have literally nothing at all to do with each other. That concept you keep adhering to is beyond fucking asinine.
Billy Beane using OBP to pursue Scott Hatteberg a decade ago has nothing at all to do with the reality that Jose Bautista is slugging .702 and Adrian Gonzalez is slugging .591.
Quit sucking Youkilis’s nuts Buck, the only reason Youkilis is even here is because of A-Rod’s bum knee.
Just browsing around and I saw the Reds and Rockies have bounced around the idea of Ubaldo going to Cincy. Do you guys think the Yankees would inquire? You’d have to think the Yanks would have more to offer for Ubaldo than the Reds, no?
So what are the odds Kimbrel’s arm falls off before the end of the season?
Quite strong. Problem is, Venters is overused too. Braves play in way too many close games because of their lack of offense.
Jeter would’ve hit a tying home run there.
AL West showing why they aren’t very good
God! Stop trying to jazz every anthem up! Sounds awful!
I really hate the fluttering too. Just sing the song straight goddammit!
She was actually just a shitty singer. Started every not flat and had to bring it up. That’s the “fluttering”.
Huh. You’d think they would get better people for the All-Star Game. Guess not.
Every year the wrong person wins American Idol. Always. I honestly don’t think they care.
That show has gone to shit since Simon Cowell left.
Bochy is owning Washington in this game. Just like the WS
2 injuries in this game and they wonder why the injured Jeter and Mo don’t want to play.
Given tonight’s pitching staffs, they should rename the game the Almost All-Star game.
Button your damn shirts, Seattle
+1
beat me to it
Ogando up now wow no chance now.
Hey weiders you have to go get the ball
Have Buck/McCarver managed to work in a reference to 2004??
“Catchers are used to hitting against pitchers and not catching”
/ShitMcCarverSays
I actually get the meaning of what he said, but he said it very crappily.
At this point in the game I’m not even listening anymore. But that’s hilarious.
Could we all stop going nuts over Starlin Castro??
We went nuts over Jeter for less.
Jeter never had the best ranger but he was years ahead of Castro defensively at that age. Jeter was a slightly better hitter too.
This. Jeter could walk every once in a while.
Jeter took a walk.
So Walden, Wilson and League failed
Why are there so many relievers in this year’s All star team?
Kinda like how they chose CJ over CC… I guess Ron Washington prefers second rate pitchers.
Al west should have their playoff spot removed.
People need to chill out and lighten up a bit. If Greg thinks Agon should win the MVP thus far, fine! That’s his opinion. It’s not a big deal. He is entitled to his own opinions. There’s no reason to get worked up over it. If he doesn’t agree with Sabermetrics (or whatever it was he said about it) it’s not a big deal.
And as for his opinion on Moneyball, if that’s how he interpretted it, fine. With books, everyone interprets them differently. (that’s why English is kind of a bullshit subject in the sense that there really is no right or wrong answer).
People, let’s all relax.
Also, Agon has been damn good this year. It’s not like he’s arguing for, say, Dustin Pedroia or Derek Jeter.
First of all, MVP = Most Valuable Player. Not “second most valuable” or “one of the most valuable”, just, “the most valuable”.
Second, we’re waging war over a random dude named Greg shitstarting. He’s the new Gavrilo Princip.
I’m not a troll. Whatever I say is my honest opinion. I’m not looking to intentionally make people miserable.
I didn’t say you were. You’re a Gavrilo Princip. He wasn’t a troll. He’s a fucking national hero/criminal of the century (depends how you look at it).
The constant oversight of Bautista is a tough pill to swallow when he’s been so insanely good the past season and a half. AGon is a amazing but Bautista isn’t human.
And as for his opinion on Moneyball, if that’s how he interpretted it, fine. With books, everyone interprets them differently.
No. Greg isn’t “misinterpreting” Moneyball, he’s flat out making shit up about it. Because he hasn’t read it and doesn’t get the point it was making, at all, which is plainly obvious in his blatantly incorrect statements about it.
If I say that the Bible is all about Allah’s love for the Shi’ites, that’s not “misinterpreting” the Bible.
Where are
Farnsworth,paplbon,gregg,sale,capps
It’s a HELLUVA drug
Jeter, Mo & CC are making a point.
East Coast bias, you say? OK, American League….try to win without us, b!tches.
AL East All Star team
C-Wieters
1B-A Gon
2B-Cano
SS-Zobrist/Pedroia
3B-A-Rod
LF-Ellsbury
CF-Granderson
RF-Bautista
DH-Ortiz
SP-Sabathia
SP-Price
SP-Beckett
SP-Shields
SP-Lester
RP-Robertson
RP-Papelbon
RP-Romero
RP-Bard
CL-Rivera
Bench
Longoria
Gardner
Pedroia
Tex
pedroia doesn’t play SS
Don’t really like any of SS in the AL East so just throwing Pedroia out for a game there would not be the worst thing.
or zobrist really, the AL east SS is jeter or scutaro if you really want to go there
Its obviously Jeter but if you really didn’t want to pick him I’d pick Arod over Pedroia to play SS. Theres no reason Pedroia should play SS.
“C-Weiters”
Oy vey…
THE GREATEST
Heath Bell’s entrance is almost as epic as Mo’s.
“Please just get me the hell out of SD. I’ll do anything even pinch run, watch me sliiiiiiiiide.”
-Heath Bell
Hey someone should teach that guy how to slide
-fausto carmona
Any thoughts on the Dodgers getting Juan Rivera?
Ogando is gonna get lit up
Oh great Ogando facing good pitching always means good news right!
If Cy Young means most valuable pitcher, why did Hernandez win instead of CC or Price?
I believe Felix desered it, I’m just wondering what your arguments are
I did this once, and even provided a disclaimer… not a good idea.
Justin Verlander and Francisco Liriano pitched better than him, but didn’t get the innings. Unlike the Bautista v. A-Gon argument, it was close. If they gave the award to Verlander (who was really the best competition)(also they wouldn’t have) I wouldn’t have argued.
But Bautista is so much better than the rest of the league, it’s fucking mind boggling. One might even venture to call it mind-bottling.
Because he’s better than the two. I’m probably going to have to duck.
“If Cy Young means most valuable pitcher, why did Hernandez win instead of CC or Price?”
Because he flat-out pitched better than both of them. Regardless of only 13 wins (which can be traced to the awful run support he got, and wins are a silly stat anyway) and his team not making the playoffs.
Depends what you mean by value if your definition value was he gave the most value to a team it was actually Justin Verlander, but since Verlander’s ERA was over a run higher than King Felix Felix got the award.
More specifically by value I mean how many more wins did that player earn for a team than replacement level.
If Cy Young means most valuable pitcher, why did Hernandez win instead of CC or Price?
Pitcher A: 249.2 IP of 2.27/3.04/3.14 E/F/x, 3.31 K/BB
Pitcher B: 237.2 IP of 3.18/3.54/3.63 E/F/x, 2.66 K/BB
Pitcher C: 208.2 IP of 2.72/3.42/3.83 E/F/x, 2.38 K/BB
Which pitcher do you want?
Nothing about the Cy Young requires the pitcher to be the “most valuable.”
The award is for the best pitcher by performance, and that was Felix Hernandez last year. You can make all of the arguments you want about FIP, but that is more about predicting future success than assessing current value.
The bottom line is that Felix Hernandez, by current, and not hypothetical future performance, was by far the best pitcher in the AL last year. He had a 2.27 ERA and threw quality starts in 29 of his 34 outings. His 13 wins are irrelevant because he got almost no run support.
You can say that he was lucky, but the bottom line is that he still got the best results, and did it without the benefit of run support.
He might not have had the best peripherals in every category, but his actual performance was simply the best.
This game is gonna have low ratings and I blame Jeter.
seriously, the lack of star pitching is making this game dull. No Beard, no verlander, no CC, no Big-Time-Timmy-Jim.
No A-Rod, Price, Mariano, Jose Reyes, the list goes on. This All-Star game just sucked.
AL West: 1
NL:5
Fuck the rest of the AL!
This how the playoffs should be set up in the AL East
Red Sox/Yankees vs. Blue Jays
Red Sox/Yankees v. Rays
Watch the ratings pour in because whatever crap the AL Central and Rangers put out is terrible baseball.
NO MARTIN??!?
Yeah..what’s up with that?
fucking Ron Washington, guy lost the game for the AL.
Oh man I really dislike Ron Washington.
Meh. He could use the time off.
SCRUBlin Castro
I may hate the Red Sox, but I bet they could take on the entire NL and AL West and Central division all-stars and win.
Same goes for the Yankees.
AL East Super team see above
I’d rather just see an AL East vs. NL East all stars game.
good job Cuddyer.
not.
RISP fail
And Tyler Clippard getting the win is the funniest shit I’ve heard all day.
yo fuck ron washington. this homer put his guy (cj wilson) in and he gives up a tater to prince fielder. damn, now the yanks have to win the ws in 5 games in order for the home fans to see it.
/death by cocaine
B-dubs just called Karros’ hairstyle ‘immaculate’ in the post-game interview.
Classic
There are people watching the Fox post-game show?
lol, burn!
But I did just get to see Chris Rose try to get Prince Fielder’s son to imitate his “Papi’s swing like he did earlier.”
in other words, he confused either Fielder with Ortiz, or confused the kids.
“He confused either Fielder with Ortiz, or confused the kids.”
That’s raycess
Best part of the ASG… We got to see DRob instead of Beckett.
Definitely. That strike ‘em out, throw ‘em out double play between D-Rob and Robbie was the game’s highpoint for me.
Whats more amazing about that play is that, had he not slid too far, Berkman actually had that base stolen.
Yeah, Berkman looks like he’s in much better shape. And he’s been playing like it.
Absolutely. Can’t help but root for the him. Probably one of my favorite short term Yankees. Stand up guy.
This may have been the most boring all star game ever
SI_JonHeyman: Krod to brewers
no point of the trade?
hazel mae lookin sexy as fuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuck
The Yankees need to ditch Kim Jones and Nancy Newman and get some hotties like Hazel.
you should have seen her during the “red carpet” show this afternoon.
She was wearing a single shoulder mini dress, that looks like this http://whatshaute.com/wp-conte.....-dress.jpg The only difference was her spectacular rack.