Jul
15
Rockies have been scouting Yankees’ farm system
ByVia George King, the Rockies have been scouting the Yankees Triple-A and Double-A affiliates recently, and are said to be high on (who else?) Jesus Montero, Dellin Betances, and Manny Banuelos. Colorado has interest in Montero as a first baseman, not a catcher. The Yankees, meanwhile, are telling teams those three are untouchable, but that’s not surprising. New York was one of 17 teams on hand to scout Ubaldo Jimenez last night, when he held the Brewers to two runs in six innings. And so it begins…
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i wouldn’t trade montero for jimenez.
i do wonder if his velocity would rebound like verlander did
I would; Jimenez is the best guy on the market so far (except for maybe Anibal Sanchez), and since he’s not just a rental he’d be worth the switch. But Montero’s the given; It’s what’s beyond him that I’m curious about.
Don’t get me wrong, I love Montero, but Jiminez is a 27 year old ace. Those types of guys don’t come around too often.
I don’t think this situation is all that comparable to Verlander.
Verlander was a 4+ FIP pitcher for three seasons. Then after his velo bounced back to where it had already been he turned into a high-2s FIP guy for three seasons. That’s not about velo, it’s about being a much improved pitcher.
Ubaldo is right where he’s been the last three seasons with a mid-3s FIP despite his velo dropping.
I’m so wary of National League pitchers……that aren’t named Halladay, Lee, Johnson or Lincecum.
Or Kershaw.
Especially since he hasn’t exactly been dominating the NL over the past yr or so.
August and September of 2010 his FIP was below 3. This season it’s mid-3s. He’s not Roy Halladay, but the guy can pitch.
He’s pitching in Coors Field!
But against NL West opponents…
hmm…
Cain? Kershaw? Carpenter? Hamels?
Only Hamels!
I added Kershaw. Hamels, I suppose. Cain, I’m not certain. Carpenter, no, he’s too old at this point.
Josh Beckett came out of the NL.
And he hasn’t always been great (I’m sure the Red Sox aren’t too sad they made that trade, though, if only because of the whole flags fly forever thing), so not really sure what your point is.
Johnson’s injury prone…I’d take him off that list. I wouldn’t call Halladay or Cliff Lee an “NL pitcher” either.
No joke, Tommy Hanson is a middle reliever in tha AL East. That’s how easy the NL is.
Ok, I was joking.
Ubaldo is the pitcher to trade the farm for, seeing as Josh Johnson is dead and Kershaw’s untouchable. I wouldn’t mind parting with Montero in this case.
I can’t remember, were you OK with trading Montero for Lee?
I was. Montero hadn’t adjusted to AAA pitching at the time, so why not move him and almost guarantee a World Series berth? But given the way the things have played out, I’m certainly happy they didn’t.
There’s no telling how things would have played out had the Yankees acquired Lee last year.
Why are they selling him?
Wonder what the asking price for Ubaldo is. Got to be a tleast Montero, Banuelos/Betances and at 2 or 3 other good prospects no?
Hes not THAT good. Look at the haul the Royals and Rays got for Greinke/Garza. And Jimmenez isn’t even as good as those guys.
He’s better than Garza.
Jinx!
hahaha, same exact phrasing. Nice.
hah, that was kinda crazy.
Right. Of course he is. I’m not sure why I said that.
Anyway I can’t see the Yankees giving up there top 2 prospects plus another couple of guys for a solid number 2 type.
*their
Ubaldo isn’t a #2 type… he’s been the 9th best pitcher in baseball according to FIP since 2008, since 2009, and since 2010… He’s an ace.
*meant to say according to fWAR…
His FIP is 13th among guys with 500 IP since 2008, though, so again he is not a #2 type.
His FIP currently ranks 33rd in baseball. Much of his value came from his great 2010 season, which appears so be an abberation. He walks a lot of guys, and his GB rate is trending down. Theres about 20 guys I would take over Jimenez
This is one half of one season… since 2008 his FIP is 13th in baseball.
And anyway… #21 pitcher in baseball is not a #2… there are 30 teams in baseball.
Not this year he isn’t. Garza’s peripherals are better and he’s become a GB pitcher.
He’s better than Garza.
I think you’re undervaluing what the Royals and Rays got in those trades…
The Royals got a rookie SS who had entered the season as BA’s #12 prospect. They got a heck of a SP prospect in Odorizzi. That right there is about Montero + Betances. They also got a strong MLB ready relief prospect and MLB ready 4th/maybe starting OF.
The Rays BA’s #27 prospect in Archer and a strong SS prospect some are not calling a top 10 prospect in baseball in Hak-Ju Lee. Again two top prospects, a pitcher and a guy at a premium position. Plus they got more on top of that.
Looking at it objectively, those deals were not out of line with Montero and Betances/Banuelos for Ubaldo.
I could see Montero plus Bentances/Banuelos, but throwing in more than that seems superfluous.
His numbers have been really good the last few years, but I’m wary of trading a significant package for an NL pitcher. Both Javy Vazquez stints were pretty traumatic, you know.
Javy isn’t exactly tearing up the NL this year, so it was more than that.
Sure, but he tore it up in the NL twice before joining the Yankees. Hence the wariness. Hopefully, if the Yankees get Jimenez, he acquits himself as well in the AL as Haren has. Granted, Haren already proved himself capable in the AL while with the A’s.
Addendum: Javy did pretty well with the White Sox. So, I guess I was just rambling about nothing. Carry on.
That’s one example… as another Dan Haren isn’t exactly struggling after coming from the NL to AL… we need to look at broader trends unless you can point out certain similarities that make Ubaldo more like one given pitcher than he is like other pitchers.
I would 100% give up Montero for Jimenez or even Sanchez. Also, take a look at his home/away splits.
jon sanchez? wtf
I’d trade Montero for him but would not also include Betances or Banuelos. I suppose I’d trade Betances for him as well since you’d have to be happy if Betances turned into a pitcher as good as Ubaldo. Banuelos would be a tough one to give up though.
How about Montero, Nova, Warren and Corban Joseph. Any chance that gets it done?
Sounds good id swap cervelli with nova though
Hah, that swap is not even.
I have no idea what the Rockies would or would not take, but my guess is that since they have no urgent reason to trade Ubaldo that we know of… they’re going to need to be blown out of the water. Ubaldo is young, dirt cheap, and the Rockies have a solid-ish team. I don’t think they’re just looking to trade Ubaldo for whatever, but looking to be blown away if they part with him.
I feel like a Montero/ Banuelos or Betances/ CoJo/ Nova or Noesi/ A couple more low guys would get Ubaldo and maybe Wigginton or another filler player, anyone else agree?
Absolutely. The guy is under team control for peanuts through 2014! Colorado has no reason to trade him unless they can get re-stocked with young guys who can contribute by the end of 2012.
My guess is they’d demand Montero, Banuelos, Nova, CoJo and maybe one more guy.
Well, the 2014 option can be voided if hes traded, so its really 2013
Didn’t realize the 2014 option is void if he’s traded. Ok, Maybe a lower level guy than Cojo as the fourth player.
You do realize that Nova has actually pitched better then Jimenez this season right? So why would we give up 4 cost controlled players, two of which are possible super stars (Montero, Banuelos)?
Other than 2010, Jimenez hasn’t been overly impressive, in fact, I compare his overall numbers to those of Phil Hughes. Their time in the majors are almost equal. Plus they’ve both regressed since the 2010 All Star game.
I never like to argue with our own, but you people have all gone completely bat shit crazy to think these proposals make sense. This guy is not Kershaw or Felix. Can he be, maybe, but he hasn’t shown that in my opinion.
I am a bit emotional about trading Montero these days. I’ve invested so much mental energy and excitement in waiting for him, only to land anything less than Felix, Kershaw, Verlander types in return would be very depressing. Ubaldo is not in that category.
You think Nova has pitched better than Ubaldo this year?
YES! I would much rather have Nova then the the cost the Rockies want!
Me too, however conventional wisdom is not welcome.
That wasn’t the question.
You think Nova has pitched better than Ubaldo this year, right? Cost aside, you think Nova>Ubaldo in 2011. Right?
YES! I would much rather have Nova then pay the cost the Rockies will want!
You do realize that Nova has actually pitched better then Jimenez this season right?
Nova 91.2 IP, 98 H, 37 BB, 100 ERA+, 1.473 WHIP, 5.0 SO/9, .9 WAR
Ubaldo 110.1 IP, 101 H, 43 BB, 111 ERA+, 1.305 WHIP, 8.1 SO/9, 1.9 WAR
Um, no, Nova has NOT pitched better than Jimenez this year.
That being said, if it takes a package of Montero, Betances/Banuelos, Joseph & Nova to land Ubaldo, I would prefer the Yankees pass. Too much, IMO.
Your package is right around what it would take. I am thinking that it might also bring Ty Wiggington back, who could be very useful.
If you take Nova’s numbers from May 1st going forward he’s been a very good pitcher. Plus don’t forget about the many plays that were not made behind him this year. I can count at least 3 DP’s Cano botched plus Jeter not getting called for errors as well. Plus I love Nova’s ability to pitch with both runners on base and in scoring position as his OPS against is outstanding during those situations.
What numbers are you comparing to Phil Hughes?
Ubaldo had a FIP under 3 in August and September of 2010 and is at a mid-3 FIP this season… how has he regressed since All-Star 2010? That’s just incorrect.
Ubaldo has been a top 10 pitcher in fWAR from the start of 2008, 2009, and 2010 to today. #13 in FIP since start of 2008.
The guy is an ace. If your opinion is that the cost is not worth it: ok. If your opinion is that he’s worse than Nova and Hughes… check your facts.
lol, Nova has not pitched better than Ubaldo. Not even if you only went by ERA. The only way he’s pitched better is if you’re seriously going by win/loss record and nothing else.
Way way way way way….too much dude.
Way more then what they’d demand, or what you’d accept?
The guy has elite level stuff, is entering his prime, he’s healthy and under team control for 3.5 more years. I think Axisa posted about Jimenez this week and suggested Colorado would demand something similar.
Yeah, well, Mike may be wrong on that. Its ok to disagree. My point was that is way to much to ship to the Rockies.
Montero and Nova straight up could be too much in my opinion.
The rox aren’t gonna trade Ubaldo for Montero and Nova. They’re gonna want quality AND quantity.
Not arguing with you. Just a conversation.
Personally, I think Nova’s ceiling is a #3, more likely a 4 or 5. Historically, unless it’s a rental, you don’t get top pitchers for a Montero and Nova. Just doesn’t happen.
IMO – you’re overvaluing prospects. Most prospects never turn into starts.
I consider Jimenez a #1 or #2 that allows the Yanks to compete with Boston and Philly in a 7 game series for the next three years. I’d trade Montero, Banuelos & Nova for 2 World Series rings in an instant.
Elite level stuff has not equaled elite level results. His 2.32 K/BB ratio is rather pedestrian. A 3.4 FIP in the current run scoring enviorment is very good, but not quite give-up-your-entire-farm good.
You are right around it, unless they wanted Hughes to be included. His contract is extremely favorable: 2.8M in 2011, 4.2M in 2012, 5.75M in 2013, 8M in 2014. I see him as a 27 yr old #1/#2 who has had a Cy Young caliber season. That isn’t very easy to find.
I would only trade the A prospects for a top 15 starter and Ubaldo is not. I’d much rather trade the Warren, Nova, Romine types for a second tier guy than trade the A’s for Ubaldo.
Kuroda & Montero >>> just Ubaldo.
Fact: Ubaldo has accumulated 14.3 fWAR over the last three seasons, which is 10th best among all starting pitchers. So your notion that Ubaldo isn’t top 15 is factually incorrect.
There aren’t 15 other starters you’d take before Ubaldo?
If there were 15 starters better than Ubaldo, sure. I’d take Doc, Felix, CC, Lincecum, Lee, Greinke, Verlander, Haren, Weaver over Jimenez. Those are all the guys better than him.
You wouldn’t take Lester and Price over him??
Kershaw? Hamels? Price?
The thing is, which of those 15 guys are realistically available?
Exactly. Ubaldo is currently the only pitcher who seems to be available. Yes, there are better pitchers, but those who are better than him are unattainable.
Lester, Sabathia, Price, Hernandez, Weaver, Haren, Verlander, Halladay, Lee, Hamels, Hanson, Greinke, Lincecum, Kershaw. That’s 14, and I excluded Johnson, Wainwright and Strasburg because of their injuries.
What about Pineda, Cain, Bumgarner, Garcia and Sanchez?
Legit cases can be made for all of those guys except Sanchez, IMO. Throw in Ricky Romero as another debatable figure.
That’s a much better list. What exact number Ubaldo ranks at isn’t important. I just don’t think he’s a true ace or an elite guy.
He walks too many guys and the sudden drop in velo has to concern you.
Furthermore, considering the scarcity of elite hitters, an argument can be made that the Yankees are better off trading B prospects for a Kuroda type than trade for one of those top 15 and lose Montero (plus Banuelos and/or Betances).
There are 70 starters in baseball with a lower ERA than Ubaldo right now (minimum 15 starts). That’s SEVENTY!
Why anyone would trade the Monteros of the world, in a year where guys like Joe Saunders, Charlie Morton, Randy Wolf, Garcia and Colon are out-pitching Ubaldo(results wise) is beyond me.
How did you like his ERA in 2010?
ERA? Really? He had a 7.20 ERA after his first four starts and has a 3.39 ERA since. He’s got the 15th best ERA in baseball since the start of the 2009 season.
If you want to take Charlie Morton and Randy Wolf and Freddy Garcia over him because of ERA, be my guest. I just hope you’re not running the Yankees.
Mike, I’m not saying I’d take those guys over ubaldo obviousy. I’d just much rather trade for the Kuroda type using the the Adam Warren types than trade for Ubaldo using the Montero types.
Kuroda is about a 2.5 WAR guy making $15M per year. Why not just keep what we have? We need somebody that we can go to war with against the Bostons and Phillys of the world.
It all depends on the asking price. The fact that Kuroda is mid-30s and makes that much money and is a FA after the season… that’s exactly why you do trade for him: prospect cost should be low. Dodgers are especially a team that might need to sell assets to make ends meet.
Kuroda absolutely can help them against Boston and Philly.
Bingo. The difference between Ubaldo and Kuroda isn’t as big as the difference in prospects required to get them.
Yes exactly.
It’s absolutely possible, but how on earth do you know what prospects the Dodgers are asking for to ditch Kuroda?
I can see your point about trading for a second tier guy rather than give up a butt-load, but I think you are undervaluing Ubaldo.
Montero/Brackman/Noesi for Ubaldo
I can’t see that.
Yes I would trade Montero for Ubaldo, and if they would take him in a package with 3 out of the group of Nova, Noesi, Warren, Brackman, Nunez and Heathcott then … Get Er Done!
Might as well ask them the throw in Tulo huh?
no actually, you’re being ridiculous
Oops, I apologize… didn’t see that you were including Montero. I’m an asshole haha.
but if they want to throw in Tulo, then sure, the Yanks can throw in DJ
No to Montero. Yes to ManBan and Betances. Montero is one of the top 5 prospects in MLB. Only getting back a Kershaw/Hernandez/Verlander type pitcher would warrantvthe trade of Montero. Jimenez is good but no trading Montero good.
“Montero is one of the top 5 prospects in MLB.”
Tell that to K-Law.
K-Law has his head up his ass so how did he ever see a player play?
If Montero was a catcher I wouldn’t give him up but slugging first basemen are not rare. I wouldn’t trade any of the killer B’s unless it was for Felix not Ubaldo.
Ubaldo is like Zamabrano two years ago. Ubaldohas the talent still but will he go back to being great like the first half of last year or fall apart like Zambrano.
“but slugging first basemen are not rare”
The cost of a slugging first baseman is about $25M per year.
He said they aren’t rare, not that they’re cheap.
I do not want to include Montero in a Ubaldo deal. Maybe I’d include Banuelos or Betances. But if they want Montero, I am hanging up on them.
It’s going to take Montero and one of Betances/Banuelos. Not just one of those three guys. Montero, Betances and either Nova or Noesi…maybe if they’re lucky they can use Warren and 1-2 other B prospects. But regardless they are not going to keep two of Montero/Betances/Banuelos.
We need another starting pitcher. Cashman needs to do whatever it takes to put us over the top this year, nobody in that farm system is untouchable.
I think that could be the way that they look at it, with last night’s Colon outing helping it along. Think of a playoff series against Boston or Philly. CC can stack up to Halladay or Beckett. After that you would have maybe AJ against Lee or Lester. Certainly something that can be improved upon.
“Cashman needs to do whatever it takes to put us over the top this yea”
No he doesn’t. Mortgage the future for one season. The Yankees are not the Giants with a limited window to compete. They are perennial contenders.
Let’s face it, despite the Mariners belief they will compete during Felix remaining 3 years, they will not. The holes are too deep on that team. They are still 4-5 years away from having a complete team under Jack Z. Felix may not be traded now, maybe not this winter, but by next summer or winter 2012/13 he will be. Wouldn’t it be nice to have Montero on the team next year for one full season, hit 285/330/400 with 20 homers and 70 RBI’s. Point being; I don’t want to act like I did at my prom and shoot my load to quickly. The Yanks are in a unique position, a place they haven’t been in years with some very valuable and appealing chips in the minors. Patience please…
You aren’t mortgaging the future if you trade for a young guy in return. He is the future. You are just cashing in the chips effectively.
He’s 27, not 87. They’re not mortgaging the future.
Jimenez is the future.
Exactly
Ubaldo would be Yankees property for 2.5 years if they were to trade for him today. So you aren’t mortgaging the future for one season.
I say pull the trigger if the price is reasonable. Prospects have two uses: Contributing at the major league level at some point or to be used as tradeable commodities. If Ubaldo is available at a reasonable price, the trade has to be made. This isn’t Lee from last year where it was 3 months. This is a reasonably affordable 2/ fringe 1 starter who can contribute for the next 3 seasons.
Mortgage the future for one season.
I agree in general but it’s not like Ubaldo is 30 or something. I also don’t see how the Giants have a limited window to compete, they’ve got great young pitching and surely they know they have to do something about that offense. If Reyes is a FA I totally see them going for him hard.
Dude, you didn’t get viagra for your prom? That’s what all the cool kidz do.
Would rather trade for Chase Headley and Seth Smith.
Do they pitch?
No, but I don’t want to trade for starting pitching all that much.
Headley is needed more as he can play third plus corner outfield going forward.
Smith is team controllable for 3 more years as a complimentary bottom of the order outfielder.
If I am looking for pitching I would love to go after Cory Luebke.
I would like to see what the Braves would offer for Swisher especially if the Yankees kicked in some money.
There are better trade targets then a false ace.
How many outfielders do you expect the Yankees to play?
4 outfielders getting regular playing time. I don’t see Swisher on the Yankees next year. His post seasons numbers trouble me so I want to try and trade him now.
I like Smith and the Rockies don’t need him with Blackmon and Wheeler.
Headley gives the Yankees someone who can play third when Alex needs time off and can play some outfield. Plus I think he’ll flourish offensively getting away from Petco.
Both Headley and Smith are under team control through 2014.
If Swisher’s not on the team next year, that’s a foolish decision by them. Even if you think his postseason numbers are his real postseason talent or whatever, it’s a lot harder to get to the postseason without the numbers Swisher puts up. There aren’t any great OFs on the FA market. I don’t think anyone would be worth the hassle of trading for when they already have an option on a pretty darn good player.
Blackmon just went to the 60 day DL. He’s not coming back for a while, and nothing in his major league SSS says he’s a guy you can depend on just yet. Wheeler’s in AA. Smith is a useful piece right now and not expensive, and being in the NL West the Rockies aren’t out of it; and even if they don’t make the playoffs this year they’ve got as good a chance as anyone next year, probably. Unless they were blown away, why would they trade Smith?
They also don’t need to trade major chips to get Headley. If you knew A-Rod was going to miss the entire season in March, maybe you do that trade. Not now.
There are only so many chips to spend, reasonably. There are issues with Ubaldo, but going after Smith/Headley seems totally pointless. (The under control through 2014 thing would actually probably work against NYY, because it’d cost more.)
I couldn’t disagree with you more! This team needs offense. Both Smith and Headley would be my targets.
Since Blackmon is on the DL then Smith could be an off season target instead of now. The Rockies are going to trade him so why not to us?
You are assuming this year that Alex is going to come back and be able to play defense and I have my doubts. Headley is a good defensive 3B. He is right up there with OOZ plays made which shows good range plus he can play a corner outfield. He would an excellent pickup!
they could improve at offensive areas… but I think they need starting pitching and a lefty in the bullpen more. They’re not gonna get everything they need, I don’t think. No one fills every need.
Also, meh, A-Rod was playing not just good but crazy excellent defense down to the day he got that surgery.
If Swisher isn’t around, who will act like a dumb redneck in the clubhouse?
I would like to see what the Braves would offer for Swisher especially if the Yankees kicked in some money.
Probably not anything worth it
Narrow minds….
Phil Hughes, Nova and Noesi.
Boom!
Utter stupidity!
Not at all. In fact, it’s not a bad idea but it would take more than that.
It’s a terrible idea. He is not worth the cost so pass.
A rotation going forward of CC, Ubaldo, A.J, Hughes and (if we can sign him) CJ Wilson would like very nice to me, especially with Banuelos and Betances waiting in the wings.
There’s no way we get Ubaldo without giving up one of Betances/Banuelos.
Pass on CJ Wilson. Pass on Jimenez if the cost is the crazy shit being thrown around on here. The Dodgers are the verge of collapse and while they’ve publicly said Kershaw is untouchable, that situation can change quickly. Same with the Mariners. Pineda will need to be pulled soon due to innings limit and his work load. That team plays below .500 for the remainder of the season. A lot will be told this off season for the Mariners. I bet they put bids out for several players, including Fielder and when they are all rejected, Jack Z may then realize what we’ve been saying all along. Gotta go for the complete rebuild and net a huge package for Felix. It’s not if, it’s when.
Kershaw is 23 and making $500,000/yr. Dodgers will not trade him…period! Felix isn’t going anywhere either…too good and too cheap. This isn’t trading baseball cards.
Kershaw is making virtually no money. Why would they trade him?
I would trade the farm for Jimenez and not look back. This guy is legit.
He is a waste of time! Not worth the cost.
Not worth it at all. He would translate to Burnett in the AL and we certainly don’t need another Burnett. Save the prospects for King Felix or anyone in the King Felix class.
A legit 5-6 WAR player who’s under contract until 2014 is a waste of time? This guy has pitched those numbers in Colorado, keep in mind!
There are better trades out there to be made. I hope the Yankees pass.
Who? I mean I’d love to get Anibal Sanchez, Clayton Kershaw, of Clay Billingsley but I don’t think those guys are going to be available. We know the Rockies are listening to offers for Jimenez.
Outside of Kershaw I’d take Ubaldo over Anibal and Clay.
Chad Billingsley?
Okay, name one.
Not one single pitcher has even been RUMORED to be available that is even close to Ubaldo.
Oh snap
The 3 mph drop in velocity is always scary, but there is chance that this year may be an aberration and he picks it up 95ish next year.
Well, he’s fallen from 98-100 to 94-96. It’s not like he’s in the high-80′s.
Come on, Mike. You of all people should know that is an issue regardless of speed.
Understood and if it was just a 1 mph or even 1.5 mph drop it would not worry, but 3 mph in one year just seems like a little much. Ubaldo still has the stuff to get batters out and there is no doubt about that.
What happened to the new IPK + Melky, aka Nova + Romine deal?
Cashman: Nova + Romine is puro dude, you can’t lose. You want something else back, I’ll make a couple of moves on the street.
O’Dowd: Oh what, you making moves now Brian?
Sorry, have Scarface on the mind.
Although Romine will be very useful, I am much more tolerant towards a package starting with Romine + Nova + a grab bag of pick any 2 (not named Montero, Betances, Banuelos)
I don’t mean this in a snarky way. However, there are plenty of teams that could top Nova + Romine + grab bag in a heartbeat. Colorado can negotiate with other teams.
You wouldn’t get near him for that. It will need to be with at least one elite prospect, and perhaps two of them.
I am much more tolerant towards a package starting with Romine + Nova + a grab bag of pick any 2 (not named Montero, Betances, Banuelos)
Yeah. So am I. So is just about any Yankee fan. Not gonna happen for a top talent.
It’d be kinda funny if they were scouting the farm system to deal us Wigginton or Stewart instead of Ubaldo.
A possible plus of the trade. He comes to NY and pitches like an ace. Suddenly CC have as much leverage as he thought.
Who am I kidding, Ubaldo could be vintage Pedro and CC is still gonna get paid a ton by the Yanks.
NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO! I want to see Montero play for us, not some other team!
As soon as Montero is traded, everyone here will will talk about how terrible he and lazy he always was. Watch.
I think we already have enough pitchers who throw 92 mph
We need fucking Felix Hernandez and what pisses me off is that 1) we are a perfect match and can dump all our chips. 2) Anyone who truly thinks that the Mariners will be competitive to a point where they can win a Championship series in the next 3 years in a fucking idiot.
How dare a team refuse to trade a player to the Yankees.
Its not that. Its what is inevitable. We move too soon. Then Felix becomes available and Boston or the Tigers trade for him. Like I said. Patience.
What if he never becomes available? Just go to war with a #1 and four #4′s? Seattle has money.
Last I checked Nintendo has $billions on their balance sheet with no debt.
That is about what it is. A #1 and four #4s. Freddie Garcia versus Cole Hamels in the World Series. The need is very clear.
Not questioning the Mariners ability to finance a higher payroll. I’m implying that there are going to be some appealing matches for players and teams this off season. The Mariners will be involved, but I don’t see the players choosing them.
Mariners being involved doesn’t mean Felix is hitting the market.
What does Boston have left to trade? At this point it’d have to be an actual major league player.
They could always trade away alcides esco..uhm, I mean Jose Iglesias.
Iglesias = Ramiro Pena 2.0
Pena at least can hit it into the gap.
BOOM!
Give it a year or so. They are building some quality players at the lower levels. They don’t have much outside of Ranundo right now that is interesting. That’s my point; in a year from now things will be very different. The Yanks have nothing to prove this season, but to play quality baseball. I’m not expecting a WS winner. The business is not on life support, far from it. Why make a questionable move now, when there are other options on the horizon?
While Felix is a wet dream for most Yankee fans, Seattle does have a fairly nice young core to build around in Hernadez and Pineda in the front of the rotation and Smoak, Ackley, and Ichiro for veteran presence.
Also, if you are doing a deal for Hernandez you are looking at a starting point of Cano, Hughes, Montero, and Betances/Banuelos.
I hate it when people compare Yankee Fans to spoiled children but…they may have a point. The M’s have a solid core of King Felix, Pineda, Ackley, Smoak, and the recently just drafted Danny Hultzen(2nd Overall Pick). Call me crazy but that is enough talent to make the Mariners think twice about trading away the most valuable pitcher in the game.
The Mariners do have a nice solid core especially when it comes to pitching, however they are really lacking on the offensive side at this point. Luckily for them they are in fairly weak division. The only player that fits with the Mariners is Gardner where the Yankees could a deal around Nick Franklin and maybe a reliever or a lower level prospect.
The Mariners don’t have to win a championship to field a competitive team that wins some baseball games and makes them some money.
Anyone who doesn’t look at Felix, Smoak, Pineda, Ackley, Cole, etc. as a strong core is the fucking idiot.
GIVE IT UP, DUDE!
He’s averaging almost 94 with his FB this season, and is more like 96 other seasons. Velo is the worst reason EVER to criticize Ubaldo. It’s right next to salary.
Find myself agreeing with ro and David Jr. (as usual). To those who say “if Montero was a catcher”, have you seen him catch? I have many times at Scranton/Durham/ST and have talked to coaches. We have gotten a hell of a career out of Jorge beginning at age 25/26 for us and he was never a top defender. I see no reason why we can’t expect similar or better from Montero especially with more experience as catching often takes.
Who is taking over from Martin and his increasingly pathetic offensive numbers in the next few years? Frankie fans may comment now.
Sorry, Montero, but I would definitely trade Jesus in this deal. If you look at the Yankees competing for world titles for the next several years, I see a much greater need for a stud young starter than for what Jesus would bring to the table. Also, if he is a catcher, we are stacked at catcher behind him. If he is a first baseman, we have an All Star. If he is a DH, we will have those coming out of our ass.
By the way, a great discussion, honing in nicely on the future of the Yankees.
Over and out. Time to go to dinner with the wife.
I have not seen him catch so I’d differ to you there. But I do read plenty on him, and I know last year there was a lot of talk about his defense improving to the point he’d be useable (never good, but useable), and then that all died off this year and I’ve heard nothing good whatsoever, including from people who said he was improving. It sounds like the improvements either stopped dead or actually went backwards.
Ubaldo’s a good pitcher. He’s not THAT good where the Yanks would consider giving up three prospects for him.
This collective boner Yankee fans have over Jesus Montero is getting laughable.
Every ML GM knows he can’t catch.
He’s unproven at any other position, and based on his inability to move behind the plate, what makes you think he can automatically play first?
I remember when the Dodgers tried to make a first baseman out of Mike Piazza and still crack up at the memories of him trying to catch a ground ball.
Montero will be traded. He will NOT be the centerpiece of the deal.
Get over it.
He’s still pretty much a tippy-top prospect even if he can’t catch.
True, but he’d only be useful to the Yankees as a catcher. We don’t need another big bat at a corner spot/DH; we’re already double parked and it’s just something we have to accept. If the guys in the office don’t think he will catch, I think we should ship him.
Pretty sure the going rate for a young Latin ace is just Carl Pavano and Tony Armas. You guys can chill out w all this killer Bs and Montero talk.
AnthonyD wins the thread.
Wait, Montero’s not a catcher?
Sooo we’re talking Montero + Betances + Melky Mesa + Adam Warren for Mr. Ubaldo??
If so, print me up directions from Mapquest, I’ll go rent the U-Haul.
What about Romine? And just have a deal based around quantity not quality.
because quantity alone will not work. The rockies will want both
Do Jimenez’s secondary pitches effectively make up for a loss in velocity?
Wait what was wrong with my Montero/Brackman/Noesi package?
Montero is a top flight prospect that the deal will center around for the Yankees. The Yankees also got Romine, Murphy and Sanchez in the minors for catcher so I hate to say it but Montero is expendable but a great trade chip. Noesi is a MLB ready pitcher right now and can be plug into the Rockies rotation. Brackman has ace like potential but is a working project that could work out in the end.
Because Noesi is a #5 guy at best, Montero would have to be moved to a new position, and Brackman has been awful lately and is a REALLY big project with no sure signs he’ll ever work it out completely. Montero they’d still want despite the position move, but the other two are nothing close to what they’d want to move a top pitcher under team control through 2014 at a very low salary.
Damn, Montero with one of the better B’s, plus another solid couple of names. That’s a high price to pay. If paid, it would mean that the remaining B (Betances of Banuelos) would be all that’s really left if King Felix ever became available. I do like Ubaldo, but if it were at all possible, I’d try to limit any deal to one of the top 3 players. I’m not sure the Rockies would do that.
A ubaldo and CC 1/2 punch would be incredible..Ubaldo just had a rough start to the season is all, it happens.. Over his last 9starts, hes allowed 2runs or less 7times and the other 2times, he gave up only 3runs.. Hes been sensational over that stretch.. He just shut down MILLWAUKEE and there potent offense last night, and he shut down the Yankees,and white sox, and was solid aginst the TIGERS in inter league.. The guy will be fine, and u simple have to give up what it takes to get a guy of Ubaldo’s caliber, our Farm System is loaded and no way do we get to use all of these guys for our own team, especially because were such a big player in FA’cy.. If the yanks get Ubaldo, they very well could be in the CJ Wilson sweepstakes after the season, and right there u got CC, UBaldo, CJ, and AJ as your top 4 starters, where is the room for guys like Betances and Banuelos?
I would offer them
Montero
Gardner
Nova
Betances
And see if they bite… Maybe we can figure a way to get Huston Street as well, or Ty Wiggington…. U simply have to make the deal if u can, we still won’t be bear in the cupboard, as far as prospects.. Were loaded in the farm right now..
Oof, why would you want to trade Gardner, who is both very valuable and who we don’t have anyone to replace him? You want Andruw Jones playing everyday?
R E P E A T A F T E R M E….The guy is damaged goods! So is Hughes.
We don’t need another one. Yeah Jimenez was one of the best….but the key word is ‘was.’ Seattle is now 8 and a half out and slipping fast.
King Felix is the guy. I say we give away the farm for the guy. He’s young, reliable and a horse like CC.
what do u mean, damaged goods? uhhh, hows 5-3 2.52 54k 13bb’s over his last 9starts damaged goods? Oh ya, 3of those starts were against Yanks, Tigers and White Sox… He got off to a slow start, so what?
While we’re at it why not trade for Pineda and Verlander and Price too? How about Halladay and Pujols?
There has been zero indication anywhere, at all, that Felix is available and not much of a reason to think he is anytime soon. If they want to contend it’s smart to do it WITH Felix, one of the top pitchers in baseball.