Jul
28

Two quality starters available, but the Yanks must choose one

By

It is becoming increasingly clear that the Yankees will make a big move in the next four days. Earlier in the month it might have appeared that the trade market was relatively bare and that there was no clear upgrade for the Yankees. Yet, as happens every year, the story has changed as we have approached the non-waiver trade deadline. The Yankees have a definite need in the rotation, and there are a couple of starters on the market who could help fill that.

Ubaldo Jimenez and Hiroki Kuroda could not be more different. One’s old, one’s young; one throws a mid-90s fastball, the other in the low 90s; one relies on ground balls, while the other is more the strikeout type; one is 36 and a free agent at year’s end, while the other is 27 and has two more years before reaching free agency; one will cost a bounty in prospects, while the other might not even agree to a trade. Yet both of them can help the Yankees rotation by slotting into the upper portion. In the coming days we could see one of them in pinstripes. Which one makes more sense?

Performance: Jimenez

If you look at only ERA, you might wonder how in the world Jimenez has out-performed Kuroda. Jimenez owns a 4.20 ERA, while Kuroda is at 3.11. Of course, that would suggest that ERA is completely under the pitcher’s control, which it is not. Jimenez has both a lower FIP and xFIP than Kuroda. He also has performed much better since struggling earlier in the year, producing a 3.03 ERA in his last 11 starts. Again, ERA isn’t everything, but he’s also struck out a batter per inning in that span, while walking just 17 (2.14 per nine).

Considering Jimenez got a late start in the spring, and missed two weeks in April, it’s understandable that he needed most of May to round back into form. But now he’s in that form, and he’s looking like an ace again. This isn’t a knock on Kuroda, whose performances have been very good since coming to the States in 2008. But in that span Jimenez ranks 10th in all of baseball with 18.8 WAR. His ERA, FIP, and xFIP are all relatively in line with Kuroda, but he has pitched 130 more innings.

Cost: Kuroda

It’s hard to make an argument that the Dodgers would get even one of the Yankees’ top five prospects in exchange for Kuroda. He’s a free agent after the season, and if he doesn’t retire he’ll either re-sign with the Dodgers or move back to Japan. In fact, it’s not even a sure thing that he’ll waive his no-trade clause: “My honest feeling is that I can’t fathom wearing another uniform than the Dodgers uniform right now,” he said yesterday. The point might be moot.

Jimenez, on the other hand, is said to cost three of the Yankees’ top prospects. If that seems like a steep price, well, it is. But remember, the payoff is a top-15 pitcher since 2008, so he’s not only good, but he has a track record. Is that worth eighteen years of total team control on three top prospects? It’s impossible to get a strong consensus on that, because of the polarizing prospect bias. Some think you always trade prospects for vets, while others would rather hang onto every prospect.

Yet here’s an interesting twist. CBS Sports’s Danny Knobler mentioned that the Rockies want three or four players from this list: Jesus Montero, Austin Romine, Dellin Betances, Ivan Nova, or Phil Hughes. If they can get Hughes into that deal, maybe that changes things. Hughes, Betances, and Romine is a much easier pill to swallow than Nova, Betances, and Montero. Though when we hold this up to the reality test, and we see Hughes’s performances lately, it’s tough to imagine that the Rockies are interested.

Overall Help: Jimenez

Jimenez not only slots into the Yankees rotation right behind Sabathia this year, but he could remain there for at least the next two. That takes the pressure off the Yanks to make a splash in the free agent markets to come, which don’t appear particularly strong. Remember, many teams are locking up their young aces, and so we won’t see many of them reach free agency. That’s where the Yankees are strongest. They might have to make a sacrifice now in order to maintain a strong rotation.

If the Yankees get Kuroda, they might be tempted to spend $90 million on C.J. Wilson this winter. While that wouldn’t be the worst investment — I fully believe he’ll perform better than A.J. Burnett, though that’s not setting the bar particularly high — it’s another big contract for a player around age 30. It might cost some pieces from their farm system, but getting Jimenez in pinstripes means they can forget about the free agent class this winter and focus on developing from within. They’ll have three surefire bets for the rotation next year in Sabathia, Jimenez, and Burnett, with a few guys from the farm who could step into those final two spots.

Jimenez’s contract, too makes matters a bit easier. He’ll be a No. 2 getting paid like someone of lesser ability, and so can free up payroll for the Yankees to make other acquisitions. While the Yankees do play a different game than everyone else, I’m sure they’d like to play the value game every once in a while. After all, they need cost-controlled players so that they can continue spending $180 million on guys like Teixeira and $160 million on guys like Sabathia.

There is nothing wrong with the Yankees’ pursuit of Hiroki Kuroda, and if they ended up with him by Sunday I’d honestly be thrilled. He’ll provide an upgrade over their current fifth starter, Phil Hughes, and will stabilize the rotation heading into the playoffs. Jimenez, on the other hand, will be their No. 2 for years to come. He’ll cost considerably more, but he brings more benefits, both in the short and long term. It hurts to give up prospects, but in this case, considering the alternatives — and the alternative of doing nothing — Jimenez makes the most sense.

Categories : Trade Deadline

225 Comments»

  1. Craig says:

    I think a change of scenery would benefit Hughes. I’d do Hughes, Betances and Montero in a heartbeat for Ubaldo.

    • mbonzo says:

      No way I would ever do that trade if I was Cashman.

      • Scout says:

        I would make the trade, too. Montero has no real position, unless you continue to believe he can be an adequate catcher, and the Yankees have several others coming along. Hughes is an enigma and I would be glad to see another team try to solve it. Betances is a high-upside talent, but so many of those do not pan out that I would gladly take the proven talent.

        • mbonzo says:

          If you’re too impatient for Hughes’ velocity to return, you might not like Jimenez. While Hughes is facing the Verducci effect in regards to his velocity, Jimenez has also dropped 3 mph off his fastball, and thats after 3 years of about 200 IP each year. He’s been better than Hughes, but 4.20 ERA with the lack of stuff he’s shown is troubling. I personally think it’ll come back, just like it will with Hughes, but Hughes was to be expected, you have to wonder why Jimenez lost his velocity and why he’s on the trade market.

          If you’re gonna be patient with the other guy, you should be patient with Hughes too. Montero is still 21, he can catch or DH. He only has 5 PB this year, which is killing the “no position” narrative from the haters. He needs work stopping the run game, but he’s got the tools to do it. At worst he’s a 1B/C/DH type player, Buster Posey with more power, I’m sure any team would take that. Betances I could live with trading, especially if we’re keeping Banuelos, but you have to remember, he’d be a top prospect for a lot of teams.

          • Gonzo says:

            Even if Phil’s velo returns, what does that make him? Do you think Phil can be a #2? It’s cool if you do, but I’m skeptical.

            His 2010 All-Star season only saw one month were he had an xFIP below 4.00.

            • mbonzo says:

              I still think Hughes’ ceiling is a #1/#2. Its not like he hasn’t shown he can do that, he’s had some very dominant starts, and when he was the “8th inning guy” he was probably a top 10 relief pitcher. He’s still only 25, a year younger than Brackman. You have to remember he threw almost 100 more IP in 2010 than in 2009. He was bound to face shoulder fatigue this year.

              • Gonzo says:

                Ok, I have my doubts. If you think he still has that ceiling, I understand your reluctance in trading him.

                I would include him because I think the odds of him reaching that ceiling are very slim.

                As a starter:
                5.00 ERA in 347.1 IP

                He only has 53.1 IP as a reliever.

                • mbonzo says:

                  4.54 xFIP as a starter, including this year, is pretty good considering all the injuries and the type of competition he faced. He’s no sure thing, but he’s still got a ceiling.

                  • Mike Axisa says:

                    Eh, no it’s not.

                    • mbonzo says:

                      Its a quality start every game from a guy who’s developing in the toughest offensive division with a lot of injuries. As a peak, it would be unacceptable, but considering circumstances he’s done well. Take away this years, and the trend is going in a nice direction. Pretty good, above average, is where I’d put his career so far.

                    • Jetrer says:

                      Its not just his performance this year that is troubling though. Over his last 23 starts last year, his ERA was over 5. He hasn’t been consistently good as a starter since his first 6 starts last year. And you can’t blame his last 23 starts last year on the Verducci effect.

                  • Plesh says:

                    thats like saying if you take out all the bad starts, replace the other teams with AA players, and give him a titanium arm..hes pretty good

                    the point is he does have an injury history that wont change and the competition is tough and will only get better

                    i dont see the point in making any of these excuses if his actual results are not that good

              • The Big City of Dreams says:

                I still think Hughes’ ceiling is a #1/#2.

                ————————–

                I think that’s a little bit of a reach. Not saying his career is over but I think it might be time to lower expectations a bit.

          • Where are you getting 3mph from? It’s 2 mph, almost exactly. And how many pitchers do you know who throw 96 consistently for their careers? It was clearly coming down at some point. http://www.fangraphs.com/pitch.....position=P

          • Ted Nelson says:

            Jimenez’s “low” velocity is the same as Hughes’ “high velocity”…

        • MikeD says:

          The last I checked, DH is still one of the positions in the line-up, and the one best suited for Montero. Just so happens the Yankees also have a need there, and will for certain in 2012. The nonsense about not wanting to “waste” a young player at DH is just that — Nonsense. We are about to see a trend again with teams moving once again toward having more dedicated DH’s, especially as offense declines.

          I have no problem trading Montero as long as they get proper value.

    • Joel Willstein says:

      I’ll 2nd that.

      Hughes has been going downhill since the 2nd half of last year. Whatever his real problems are, they seem to be both physical and mental. One this is for sure, presently, he doesn’t deserve to be in the starting rotation.

  2. j says:

    Another thing to factor in is that we cannot get draft picks for Kuroda as he does not have 6 years service time.

  3. Mike Axisa says:

    Why do they have to choose one? Gimme both!

    • Gonzo says:

      Throw in Kershaw with Kuroda.

    • hogsmog says:

      If Kuroda only costs money, and they get Jiminez, would it be all that ridiculous to get him, too? Garcia to pen? That staff sans AJ would be a pretty killer postseason rotation.

      I do realize that this is entirely unnecessary. But I’m all for being greedy with rentals if they don’t cost relevant prospects.

  4. Kiersten says:

    Agree with all of this.

    Honestly, I don’t think Montero + Betances + Nova is too steep a price for Ubaldo. It would be different if the Rockies were looking to unload him, but they’re not. That changes things considerably. They have to get a solid haul. We get attached to these prospects, but we have to remember they’re just that, prospects. Ubaldo is the real deal. A legit second-tier pitcher signed for super cheap for the next 2 1/2 years. Watching Montero mash in Denver will suck, but you know what won’t suck? Watching Ubaldo shut down the Sox lineup in Game 2 of the ALCS.

    • Gonzo says:

      I agree, but if you can swap out Montero for Romine, the deal looks much sweeter.

      The Rox have a good catching prospect though. Interesting.

      • Kiersten says:

        I don’t know, although Montero is the better prospect, you get the feeling the Yankee brass sees Romine as the catcher of the future, not Montero.

        • Gonzo says:

          I can see that, but I don’t think Russ Martin is moving off catcher next season. That’s a lot of time to figure out something. Whether it’s extend Russ or find another guy.

        • Marcus says:

          Agreed if the Yankees front office believed in Monetero, he would already have been called up this year. Although his numbers arent as stellar as last year. He would clearly be able to see plenty at bats filling in for the ever slumping Posada as the DH, and letting him take 2-3 days behind the plate rather than Cervilli.

          • coolerking101 says:

            I don’t buy that the Yanks aren’t high on him. I think the thought process in keeping Montero in AAA is that it protects his current trade value. They assume he’ll continue to rake in AAA and improve his defensive skills, as opposed to coming to the big leagues where he could potentially struggle and lower his immediate trade value.

            Keeping him at AAA isn’t killing this team. They’re far ahead in the wild card standings. It’s not like they need all hands on deck right now.

            • Jetrer says:

              Keeping him in AAA now lowers his trade value IMO. Not calling him up when they are getting virtually no offense from C and DH doesn’t show that they have much confidence in his abilities as a major leaguer. I would think that would force other GM’s to further question his ability.

        • YankeesJunkie says:

          I agree. At this point, the Yankee brass is the only one that thinks Montero can catch. At the very best Montero can probably catch twice maybe thrice a week for a couple years before he has to either move 1B (Tex) or DH (not desirable for a 24 yr old).

        • Ted Nelson says:

          “you get the feeling the Yankee brass sees Romine as the catcher of the future, not Montero.”

          A. Based on what?
          B. Montero’s bat can still offer a ton of value not Cing, or Cing part time.

    • Sarah says:

      Could not agree more. It’s tough to trade away good prospects (you think the Giants didn’t grimace a little at trading Zach Wheeler?) but Ubaldo is a significant addition and upgrade to the rotation now and in the future. It’s a win now and win later situation.

      It’s going to be a long few days…

    • David, Jr. says:

      This summarizes it perfectly. It would be extremely painful to lose Montero, but if something isn’t painful for both sides a deal would never occur. That is about the right price.

      • David, Jr. says:

        Although I would much prefer to see Hughes in it. I don’t like his stuff at all, and he doesn’t even look to me to be in great shape. I would love to see them bite for him and see how that would change a deal.

    • Kiersten says:

      Also, getting Ubaldo means the rotation for next year should be fine without worrying about going after someone like C.J. Wilson. And Ubaldo’s contract frees up money so they can spend on next year’s FA class, which, assuming we could get either Weaver or Hamles, would give us an awesome rotation for 2013.

      • YankeesJunkie says:

        Prospects and 2.33 years of Ubaldo>CJ Wilson at 5/90

        CJ Wilson is having a career year, but he will not fare as well when he is throwing 90 mph with 4 BB/9.

      • Ted Nelson says:

        There’s still another side of the story… You seem to be looking at all the benefits of making the trade and ignoring the downside. If it were such an obvious no-brainer it would be done.

    • Ted Nelson says:

      “We get attached to these prospects, but we have to remember they’re just that, prospects. Ubaldo is the real deal.”

      What was Ubaldo before he was the real deal? A prospect, no?

      This falls into Joe’s point about prospect bias, IMO. “Just trade them all indiscriminately.” I agree that Ubaldo has a justifiably high cost and is a great pitcher, but there’s certainly a case to be made that hanging onto the prospects it would behoove them. One that has nothing to do with getting attached to specific prospects.

  5. Tom says:

    I agree I would let Hughes go for Ubaldo who is a proven starter in the worst pitching ballpark in the MLB Coors Field

  6. Tampa Yankee says:

    I know the Rockies have come down a little bit on their asking price and would take 3 out of 4 of Montero, ManBan, Bentances and Nova but would a package of Dellin, Nova, Romine and CoJo work?

    I know its more of quantity over quality thing but they possibly could move CoJo to 3rd, Wiggy to 1st and there is your Helton “replacement” or leave him at 2nd. Also, Romine can replace Iannetta in a few years

    #yourtradeproposalsucks

  7. mbonzo says:

    I’m thinking its gonna be neither, I don’t know who, but ninja-Cashman has enough resources to keep a deal secret.

  8. Max says:

    If you look at your needs after the trigger has been pulled, doesn’t it make more sense to concentrate on trading pitching for pitching? In this specific case, I think it would be best to concentrate on keeping Montero. It would also be optimal to keep one of the B’s, but in some ways it’s not as important. Already this season there is a serious performance gap in the backup C, backup 1B, and part-time DH roles that Cervelli and Posada are filling, and those holes will be even larger when Posada leaves.

    It would seem to me that Montero is the rarer talent of all of the prospects involved while also fulfilling the most Yankee needs (all of this re: a post-Ubaldo trade Yankee roster). He and the short porch in right field would be the best of friends.

    • David, Jr. says:

      I agree with this, if we are able to pull it off.

    • Monteroisdinero says:

      Max-udaman!

    • Ted Nelson says:

      Position prospects do tend to be more predictable, but 1B/DH hitters aren’t really rare talents. And back-up C/DH/1B… those are marginal positions. Having two very good pitchers doesn’t mean you can’t use a third one. LHSP with Manny’s potential are very, very rare as well.

      I’d probably rather keep Montero too, but because he’s regarded as the better prospect not because he’s not a position player.

  9. Mike D. says:

    I’m getting hesitant on Kuroda because of the following: Kuroda said he can’t fathom wearing another uniform than that of the LAD. Well, that shows that his priority is not necessarily winning, or going into the postseason. I want a guy that wants to win, wants to compete, and I don’t know if Kuroda really is that kind of guy.

    • CS Yankee says:

      Good point.

      I want a guy that wants a ring and will bleed any color as long as its blue.

      • Mike D. says:

        I also want to see a guy who can just dominate a lineup, and I don’t think Kuroda is a dominating pitcher, especially against strong lineups like Texas and Boston. And Ubaldo’s stuff could definitely handle those lineups.

        • CS Yankee says:

          Jesus or ManBan or Dellin would hurt big time…I could see one going but not two.

          I think a Hughes move might be best for all as he has value & if Ubaldo comes over what happens to Hughes…pen? We have seen that act too much before, let him figure it out elsewhere.

    • mbonzo says:

      Or he’s a smart guy trying to get more leverage in a trade situation. Could be either way, but its the same strategy of players setting up no-trade clauses for contending teams.

    • The Fallen Phoenix says:

      Man, that Kerry Wood, he’s all about feeling comfortable. His lack of competitive drive and willingness to sacrifice personal comfort for a championship really hurt his performance last year.

      …oh, wait. It didn’t.

    • Mike Axisa says:

      He just said that to create leverage when it comes to waiving his no-trade clause.

  10. CS Yankee says:

    Hughes, Nova, Liard, Adams & Warren/Phelps.

    Rox shouldn’t need another catcher (Chris is decent & their top prospect is in AA catching). They need a 3B, 2B & a couple of young arms.

    • Mike D. says:

      Problem is they’re looking for high-end prospects.

      • CS Yankee says:

        It would give them two young MLB starters plus a near starter in AAA. I understood they wanted ready (or near ready) MLB arms.

        That should trump lower level slightly higher rated prospects.

    • Matty Ice says:

      They’d put Montero at 1B, I would think.

    • vin says:

      Interesting thing about Hughes is that he’ll probably end up earning more money than Ubaldo over the next couple years, and certainly over the next 3 years if Jimenez isn’t traded.

      If the Rockies hang on to Jimenez, they would owe him 4.2, 5.75 and 8 (club option) over the next 3 years.

      How much is Phil going to cost the next two years (his 2 final arbitration years)? Probably around 10 million total. Assuming he returns to being an effective starter, he’ll definitely earn more than 8 mill in his first year of FA.

    • Kiersten says:

      The over/under on how long it takes the Colorado GM to hang up is set at 3 seconds.

      • CS Yankee says:

        Redial is a great thing…

        If they up the ante, thats fine. Maybe a still young Hughes who won 17 (or so) last year has solid value to Dan, i don’t know. I would believe that his upside is greater than Nova or Dellin based upon past ratings and success.

        Two of our top three should be avoided, all three being traded should be a no.

        • Kiersten says:

          You realize Hughes is expensive, right?

          And I don’t know how you say no to two of the top three. This is cheap, under team control for 2 1/2 years, Ubaldo Jimenez.

  11. Steve says:

    No to Ubaldo. I don’t want to see Cash make the Bartolo Colon trade version 2.0. That’s just too many high upside, promising pieces for one borderline front end starter. I’d rather take my chances with Kuroda. I’d even be ok with Noesi and Nova starting. Cash learn from your mistakes (cough Javy Vazquez, cough Arodys Vizcaino).

  12. vin says:

    Yeah, but are they CONSISTENT?

    Ubaldo (with 2 cheap years) is a guy you move mountains to get. Kuroda is a fine pitcher, and I’d be happy to get him, but his overall impact would be nowhere near Ubaldo’s.

    Another interesting thing about Kuroda is that the Yanks wouldn’t be able to offer him arbitration and get draft picks if he signs elsewhere since he has less than 6 years of MLB experience (saw it on Twitter today). That should make his asking price that much cheaper.

    • mbonzo says:

      Jimenez will have a bigger impact just because he’d be in New York longer, but theres a good chance Kuroda actually pitches better over the next 2 months.

      • vin says:

        That’s what I meant. And, yes, anyone can out pitch someone else over a 2 month span, but I’ll gladly take my chances with Jimenez over Kuroda.

  13. Hardy says:

    If they can get him without giving up a top 5 prospect, the Yankees should take Kuroda.
    He should be close to Jimenez’ equal this year. For the upcoming year(s) they can re-sign Kuroda, or take any of the good free agent (Wilson, Jackson) or they can still trade their top prospects if a really great pitcher becomes available.

  14. The ca$hMAN says:

    Hughes, Nova, Romine I believe montero can catch in the majors and if he’s just below average thats fine we also have martin. Pitching and great hitters are hard to come by if we can keep both its a steal.

  15. Gonzo says:

    If the Albert Haynesworth was traded for something of value, anything is possible.

    Brackman for Danks!

  16. Hester Prynne says:

    Whoever we acquire Hughes is gone. Can’t have 6 starters and Joe will choose AJ over Phil. Can’t knock the other 3 out becuase they are much better pitchers this year. Include Hughes to get the Ubaldo deal done and have CC-Ubaldo 1-2 for years to come.

  17. CS Yankee says:

    If they did both…
    1) CC
    2) Ubaldo
    3) Colon
    4) Kuroda
    5) Freddy
    MRP) AJ
    ER) Ro (emergency RP)
    8) So
    9) Mo

    WS favorites?

  18. MONKEYJAW says:

    No one…and I mean NO ONE will shut down the Sox lineup this year. That is, hands down, the best lineup in baseball. I would be nervous facing them in the post season if we had C.C., Halladay, Lee & Lincecum. I believe that, even if we bring in Jiminez this year, the Yanks will still be watching the W.S. from the couch…AND their farm system will have fallen from a top 5 to a bottom 10 system. What the Yanks have in their system right now is akin to the batch that came through the system in the 90′s and formed the greatest dynasty of a generation. The game has changed and the only way to build and preserve a winning organization is to do it from within. I can be patient. I’ll gladly take my chances with what we have now for an opportunity to see multiple championships down the road. If the Yanks do the Jiminez deal, I believe they’ll be sorry…we all will.

  19. Rick in Boston says:

    I wonder if the Yankees could get Jimenez without including Montero. The Rockies have Ianetta and Helton under contract through 2013. Would they be willing to part with their best pitcher in exchange for a package centered around a guy who would be a bench bat/interleague DH for them for the next couple of years?

    He might supplant Helton, but will the Rockies be cool with a $5 million bench bat?

  20. John says:

    Personally, I don’t think there’s any way COL takes Hughes, Nova, Romine + for Ubaldo. I’d do that trade in a heartbeat, which most liely means they wouldn’t do it.

    I think Montero, Hughes, Nova & some lower level prospect is something they might have more interest in. I could be wrong, but I feel like that’s a more even trade for each side.

    I’d make that trade too btw. Ubaldo is an ace, and he’d give us a 1-2 punch that could compete with Lincecum/Cain, Roy/Lee, Beckett/Lester.

  21. Drew says:

    I love the insanity that persists one day after a mediocre start by Hughes. Really everyone? He is just a throw in now for Ubaldo? The guy just spent 3 months on the disabled list and is coming back from injury, after the crazy innings increase on his arm last year. Give him time, I will almost guarantee that Hughes will not be traded by Sunday.

    • first time lawng time says:

      He wasn’t very good last year, either. And beore he became a reliever in 2008, wasn’t he not so great as a starter? (I could be wrong on that one).

      • Rick in Boston says:

        One awful, one excellent, one very good, four average to meh starts in ’09. He was a starter in ’08 then got hurt.

      • Drew says:

        yeah you’re right, except for the fact that he won 18 freaking games last year! So i guess that does not qualify in your book as ‘very good’. The kid is still 25 years old and this is only his second full year as a starter, expecting him to just dominate day in and day out is insane. He isn’t an ace but he is not a #5 starter either. Hughes is a 2-3 guy, patience is key and trading him for Ubaldo is just stupid.

        • If you’re citing wins as your primary argument, you’ve already lost.

          • Plesh says:

            Phil’s 2010 18-8
            Felix’s 2010 13-12

            i think it’s pretty definitive who is the better pitcher

            Hughes>>>Hernandez

            lol wins

        • Rick in Boston says:

          I agree with you that trading Hughes isn’t the best idea, but winning 18 games isn’t the stat you want to use. He won 18 because the Yankees offense was the best in the game last year.

          • The Big City of Dreams says:

            You would be surprised how many ppl bring up his 18 wins when some fans critique his performance.

        • David, Jr. says:

          With the most run support in the league. Get some films and look at his stuff.

        • Jetrer says:

          over 5 ERA over his last 23 starts last year.
          He was great for his first 6 starts, and then basically pitched like a mediocre fifth starter for the rest of the season

        • The Big City of Dreams says:

          Trading him for UJ would not be stupid. I don’t think Phil will be traded but if the Rox want him he should definitely go in the deal.

    • mbonzo says:

      I’m with you, but if the deal with basically Hughes/Montero or Hughes/Betances plus some C prospects I’d probably take that. He should be treated like a B level prospect considering cost and injury history right now, not a throw in.

    • David, Jr. says:

      One day after a mediocre start? What about the entire year, and the second half of last year?

      If he isn’t traded, the reason will be that Colorado or whoever we deal with wants nothing to do with him.

  22. Crime Dog says:

    I thought this was gonna be an article about King Felix vs Kershaw

    /beatsdeadhorse

    • vin says:

      At least we’re starting to get away from Pavano, Johan, and to a lesser extent Javy and Cliff Lee. It’s nice to have some new blood to get worked up about.

  23. first time lawng time says:

    If the Yankees really could get Jimenez for Romine, Betances, and Hughes, I would be thrilled. I really don’t care much for those players (I mean, while they would be good to have, I wouldn’t mind trading them). If they could get Ubaldo without trading Montero or Nova, that would be great.

    • Ted Nelson says:

      What makes Nova the guy who name ahead of Banuelos, Betances, Hughes, Romine, etc.?

      I really doubt the Rockies are going to give Ubaldo away. Unless they think he’s about to self-destruct they can still trade him this offseason, next season, the next offseason, the next season… no rush.

    • Cris Pengiuci says:

      I would go as far as you and say that I don’t really care much for thos players, but I think they are either replaceable pieces (Hughes/Romine) or still unproven (Betances). While Hughes has higher potential than Nova, Nova is servicable as a 4/5 starter and the team could deal with that I would think. There are also other catchers in the system (Martin/Montero, Sanchez and others further down), so while Romine is a loss, the return is worth it. My preference is to retain Banuelos over Betances and while having both would be nice, again, the return appears to be worth the cost.

  24. coolerking101 says:

    Stop with the idiotic talk of dealing Hughes. Never sell low. Remember how bad Hamels was in 09? He seems to have recovered nicely. Give Hughes more than a handful starts before you decide he’s washed up (at age 25).

    Worst case scenario with Hughes, he ends up back in the pen where he previously dominated.

    • Ted Nelson says:

      If the Rockies are high on Hughes you might not be selling low… I don’t think it will happen, but if the Rockies for some reason value him higher than the Yankees do it could work out.

      “Worst case scenario with Hughes, he ends up back in the pen where he previously dominated.”

      He dominated with different stuff. He’s short-arming the ball and not throwing with the same velocity. I would put his worst case significantly lower than that.

  25. YankeesJunkie says:

    I don’t see why people are thinking that Hughes=Montero/Betances/Banuelos/or Nova! Hughes has the same amount of time left on his contract than Ubaldo and Hughes going to start making big money and while he has shown he can pitch in the big leagues he has not shown much in the last 12 months. The Rockies would much rather have the risk/reward with six years of Betances, Banuelos, and Montero or even the five years of Nova. Not necessarily the talent gap that hurts Hughes’ value more than time and contract aspect of it. As for the trade aspect preferably the Yankees would have Haren, but alas, however, Ubaldo is young, cheap, great stuff, and has superior numbers outside of Coors. A fair deal to me would seem Montero, Betances, Nova, along with a lower prospect should be able to pry Ubaldo from the Rockies.

    • Ted Nelson says:

      “I don’t see why people are thinking that Hughes=Montero/Betances/Banuelos/or Nova!”

      “The Rockies would much rather have the risk/reward with six years of Betances, Banuelos, and Montero or even the five years of Nova.”

      I don’t see why people are thinking they know what the Rockies “would much rather have.”

  26. first time lawng time says:

    Isn’t Ubaldo inconsistent, though? Isn’t he either really good or really bad? I think that’s what Curry said during the pregane show against Colorado.

    • It’s a convenient phrase, because it’s both ambiguous and abstract. What is consistency for a baseball player, exactly? You’ll get tons of different answers, and if you look at the numbers none of them is really accurate.

      And to the really good/really bad thing, he’s no more inconsistent than his peers: http://www.fangraphs.com/blogs.....onsistent/

      • mbonzo says:

        Its not a great stat, but quality starts do say something about a players “consistency”, and Jimenez tied for 4th with 25 quality starts last year, right after Felix Hernandez, Jered Weaver, and CC Sabathia.

    • Jim S says:

      When you hear someone say something on a pregame show that sounds fishy, look it up before you trust them. Pregame guys are notorious for confirmation bias and just making shit up for the sake of narrative.

  27. Nigel Bangs says:

    Part of “doing it from within” is turning good prospects into good players. It doesn’t make a difference is that is through internal development or trade. Given the Yankees appearance as an organization that falters with producing big league pitching talent, it makes sense to me to flip some of those prospects for fully developed big league talent.

  28. Ted Nelson says:

    I think there are some strong parts of the analysis… but I don’t see the value in coming to such a definitive conclusion.

    As you literally say in the article, giving up Romine vs. Montero would make for two considerably different equations and the rumors could be 1/100000 of the story (not just, we’ll take 3 off this list, but with contingencies). Yet you basically conclude that Jimenez is worth whatever cost. The Rockies don’t seem particularly motivated to move him (or at least have no reason we know of to be)… so I don’t see them giving him up without at least two of Montero, Banuelos, and Betances.

    I think that you dismiss free agency too readily. “Jimenez in pinstripes means they can forget about the free agent class this winter and focus on developing from within” That’s a bit of a contradiction. Building from within with low cost pieces is a whole lot more likely with Montero, Banuelos, and Betances than without 2 or 3 of them. It might come down to paying a CJ Wilson, Kuroda, Darvish, etc. in 2011 or one of the plethora of good pitchers scheduled to his the market after 2012 vs. paying the replacements of Montero/etc. and then turning around and paying Jimenez a cool $20 mill per for 5 or 6 years when he’s 30 anyway.

    Prospect bias is polarizing, but that doesn’t mean you can’t project the approximate future value of prospects using historical returns and get an idea. That’s pretty basic statistics.

    It’s also not likely that the Yankees need to decide between the two, as they could probably try to get both if they are so inclined.

    I don’t think either is an easy decision. Especially since having, reportedly, 5 teams in on Kuroda could drive up his price to prohibitive levels. I feel like the article builds a bit of a strawman in evaluating the alternatives to make one option look obviously better, though. The conclusion is nothing more than an opinion, and I think it should be stated as such.

  29. Granderslam says:

    is there any indication that Danks might still be available even after the Edwin Jackson trade?

  30. stuart a says:

    this talk that montero does not have a position. how about DH. Last I looked that is a position and the yankee production at the position has been horrible and without montero as is should not get much better tnext year. and before you tell me about arod and jeter being DH in 3 years , get back to me on that subject in 1.5 years with your crystal ball.

    • hogsmog says:

      It’s not like they’d be full time DHs. At least in Arod’s case, it will be good to be able to DH him half the time so we can get his bat, but avoid wearing him out as he ages. You don’t need a crystal ball; it’s something that’s already happening.

  31. David, Jr. says:

    Relax, Monkey.

    Vegas is quite smart about these matters. They have it as:

    Boston – 5/2
    Philly – 5/2
    Yankees – 9/2
    Atlanta – 12

    That means that we have a very strong chance, and that is without using our ample resources, which could happen in the next few days.

  32. stuart a says:

    again there is a fine line between being prospect lovers and treating prospects like dirty socks.

    from what I read, the yanks now are loaded with exceptional pitching talent in the minors. b and b are at AA not exactly rookie ball. manbam is 20, how the heck can you give up a LEFTY? I do it for King Felix but ubaldo is not in the same league as king felix…

    i believe yankee fandom undervalues there prospects significantly…

    kuroda is a 2 month rental I give up zero premium talent for him. nada, and neither iwll any other team…..

    the jiminez demands are just insane.. yanks need 2 new players next year at least at catcher/dh.. jorge is gone and cervelli stinks and martin is a huge ? mark. trading montero or romine accomplishes what??

    • Monteroisdinero says:

      Thank You Stuart A.

      Me like

      How much can Eduardo do for our aging and increasingly injured offense these next 2-3 years? (lol) We need young bats too.

  33. oh no says:

    If the Yanks back up the truck for Jimenez then they are likely out of the race to trade for king felix when he hits the market in a year (I assume this because he won’t stay with the kind of money boston and new york will throw at him. I’d rather go after Kuroda and have the bullets in the gun for a guy like Hernandez down the road.

  34. JP Bouffard says:

    No way I’m trading any prospects for Jimenez. Sorry…..you guys will fillet me for saying this, but I think the next few years are going to be bad, relatively speaking, and I wouldn’t want to risk losing even a single good, young, salary controlled player right now. I think the Yankees will be rebuilding for a couple of years, and I’d rather keep the youngsters and plan for a rennaissance in 2014-15. I would try to acquire the best possible player at the trade deadline which would NOT require burning good prospects. If this is a hitter, then fine….the Yankees’ team pitching ranks higher than its hitting right now anyway.

    • There’s so much wrong with this.

    • mbonzo says:

      I disagree that the Yankees will be bad going forward. Almost all of their offense will be in the prime of their careers, Cano, Granderson, Swisher, Gardner, Tex, Martin. CC needs to be resigned and Hughes needs to come up big. One more starting pitcher in their prime would give the Yankees as good a team as any in 2012/2013. I’m in favor of Edwin Jackson plus the farm system, but if its Jimenez thats good for the immediate future.

      • JP Bouffard says:

        See below. Age 30 is past prime. There isn’t a single offensive player on the team who can be reasonably expected to increase their offensive output over the next 3 years relative to where they’ve been in the last 3. And, there are a couple who we know will decline.

        Not saying the house is falling….they will keep winning, but I’d rather let this hand play out and see if any of the young prospects turn up aces on the next deal. Rather than blow them now and perhaps still fall short.

        Not saying I would be making the best percentage move, either. I’m just saying what my preference would be.

    • Ted Nelson says:

      A. Why will they be bad? Gardner, Granderson, Teixeira, Cano, Swisher, Martin, CC, Hughes, Nova, Robertson, Joba, Soriano… all still in “prime” years. Money to burn. Top 10 farm system. And Ubaldo would be a major addition for the next few years. Ubaldo + CC + Hughes/Nova/Colon/Garcia/CJ Wilson/Yu Darvish/Adam Warren/Hector Noesi/one of the Bs/etc… rotation should be good. Line-up should be good. What’s got you worried. A-Rod’s decline? He’s playing the best 3B since he’s been here.

      B. The Yankees’ offense is #2 in MLB in runs/game… where are you getting your facts?

      C. In 2014 Jimenez will still be 30 and should still be in his prime…

      • JP Bouffard says:

        Remember, I said bad, relatively speaking. They will continue to have winning records.

        ARod’s contract is awful, Jeter is old and is on for 2 more years, Texeira is very good but has already plateaued and may actually be declining some….Cano and Granderson will not get better, and can perhaps be expected to plateau for a few years at best. Pitching has alot of “ifs.”

        Age 30 is already past prime, both from the standpoint of salary requirements and playing performance.

        I never said I was worried. I’m being realistic. I’d rather lay low for a couple of years and let the team turn over, and see if this bounty of prospects yields something really good.

        • Ted Nelson says:

          Even relatively I still don’t see it.

          “ARod’s contract is awful”

          So what? It’s a sunk cost. With a $200+ mill payroll I don’t think that deal will mean the Yankees won’t spend. Especially with Jorge coming off after this season, Mo and Swisher the next, and
          Plus… A-Rod is still producing. He’s the best 3B in MLB this season according to fWAR despite having missed significant time (http://www.fangraphs.com/leade.....#038;ind=0).

          “Jeter is old and is on for 2 more years”

          Jeter was old last season and they made Game 6 of the ALCS. He’s old this season and their offense is still #2 in baseball.

          “Texeira is very good but has already plateaued and may actually be declining some”

          He’s been very good for years… Having a couple of bad seasons with an ugly swing doesn’t mean his skills have necessarily eroded.

          “Cano and Granderson will not get better”

          Who cares? They’re already among the best at their positions and the Yankees offense is already #2 in baseball.

          “Pitching has alot of “ifs.””

          I’m not saying do or don’t trade for him definitively (would depend on cost), but this would be the whole point of acquiring Ubaldo. The Yankees would suddenly have two of the top 10-15 pitchers in baseball. Two of the top relievers in baseball too.

          “Age 30 is already past prime”

          Not true. This is baseball, not football.

          “I never said I was worried. I’m being realistic.”

          I would say unreasonably pessimistic. They are very good and don’t figure to get worse… yet you think they’ll be relatively bad.

          “I’d rather lay low for a couple of years and let the team turn over, and see if this bounty of prospects yields something really good.”

          There’s a case to be made for that, but
          A. doing that the Yankees should still be in contention… not relatively bad
          B. you should at least recognize that adding a top 10-15 pitcher has great short-term benefits that would make them even more likely to contend… and him being 27 makes him a good long-term bet as well.

          • JP Bouffard says:

            Maybe it is pessimism. But I’d say it’s optimistic to think that you will remain at the same level with a roster of players who are essentially all at prime or older. I disagree with you on the definition of “prime,” by the way…but that’s another debate. There are studies I’ve read where it’s basically been said that prime years are between 25-28. There is individual variation, of course, but I guarantee you, Teixeira and Cano are past their prime.

            You are basically calling for the Yankees to do what they’ve always done: trade prospects for proven players, whenever necessary, to max out the chances of winning it all THIS year.

            That’s fine, but I think there are times when you should consider laying low and rebuilding. With so many good prospects in the system, I think the Yankees have an opportunity to develop another “great” team, with those pitchers and Montero as anchors. Going “all in” with those prospects in an effort to maximize our chances in 2011 and 2012 just isn’t the way I’d like to see them go.

            Good debate, Ted.

            • YanksFan says:

              If the Yanks are old, then who will win the East?

              Boston is just as old as the Yanks. Tampa, Toronto & Baltimore are “too young” to win.

              The whole idea of a smart organization is to bring in younger players every year. But just being younger does not mean better. You want young & talented w/ a mix of “old” and seasoned.

            • Ted Nelson says:

              “But I’d say it’s optimistic to think that you will remain at the same level with a roster of players who are essentially all at prime or older.”

              Why are the Yankees making no changes to their roster in the next several years? Ubaldo alone would be a huge change… Jorge’s salary expires. Then Mo and Swisher. Then Soriano. Etc. Etc.
              Even if they trade 3 top young prospects… they’ve still got more.

              “I disagree with you on the definition of “prime,” by the way”

              It’s not my definition. I have never heard 25-28. 27-29 I’ve heard more as the real peak… but that doesn’t mean you suddenly fall off a cliff at 30.
              You say 28 is prime… you say Cano is guaranteed to be past his prime… do you not realize Cano is 28? That makes it pretty hard to take you seriously.

              We’re also talking about the average of every player. Elite players often buck that trend. Any player might buck the trend. Granderson is 30 and enjoying his best season. Pitchers’ primes can also differ from hitters’.

              “You are basically calling for the Yankees to do what they’ve always done: trade prospects for proven players, whenever necessary, to max out the chances of winning it all THIS year.”

              NO. I did not ever do that. You are basically making things up. I never once did that, and you saying I did pisses the hell out of me. Can’t discuss things with you if you’re going to make things up.

              There is a case for trading for Ubaldo. The guy is a top 10 pitcher who is 27. If you really can’t even acknowledge how that theoretically helps the team this season and for the next several… we can’t discuss this.

              The Yankees also haven’t always done that… you’re making that up too. When did they trade Cano, Hughes, Joba, Wang, Jeter, Posada, Pettitte, Mo? They didn’t. Trading ok prospects for proven players is mostly what they’ve done.

              “Going “all in” with those prospects in an effort to maximize our chances in 2011 and 2012 just isn’t the way I’d like to see them go.”

              That is not what trading for Ubaldo would do. The guy is 27. It’s also not what trading for Kuroda would do if you don’t give up a top prospect.

              “Good debate, Ted.”

              I am not debating you. I see your side. There is an argument that it’s too steep a price for Ubaldo. You are taking that to a ridiculous extreme and saying do not trade any prospects period. I am not saying “trade all prospects, period” as you imply. I am saying that it’s a case-by-case thing and that there’s often no easy answer. I think it’s a very close call between pulling the trigger and not assuming the Rockies would agree to a reasonable deal.

              • JP Bouffard says:

                Wow. You are a jerk. I’m just offering opinions. We differ. I tried to compliment you by saying it was a good debate. I don’t know what your problem is.

                • The Big City of Dreams says:

                  Seems like a misunderstanding

                • Ted Nelson says:

                  As I implied, I disagree that it is a good debate or even a debate at all. You have blatantly misrepresented my argument and put words into my mouth. At no point did I support trading prospects at all costs. In fact, if you look for my other comments on this thread I make it very clear that this is not my stance at all. When you accused me of doing so, it ceased to be a productive conversation.

                  I was not debating you. I was saying that it is radical to have a stance that you never trade prospects, just like it’s radical to have a stance that you always trade prospects. You can support either argument, I just think it’s radical. I would say that it’s a case-by-case thing. In this case you continue to ignore Ubaldo’s impact on the team, calling him a short-term fix and acting like the Yankees would be giving up their prospects without getting anything in return. At no point did I say that the Yankees should or should not trade for him, all I said is that depending on the cost there can be an argument in either direction.

                  I also disagree with your assessment that the Yankees are doomed to get worse the next several years, and gave you several reasons why: their core is not that old and it’s very good, they will have significant money freed up each of the next several seasons, they have a top 10 farm which can be used both to promote prospects and to trade them, and if they did trade for Ubaldo they’d be trading for a 27 year old ace making almost nothing the next two years who would be expected to add a lot of value (though obviously value would be going the other way too… so it’s a balancing act).

  35. Jorge says:

    Easy answer: Kuroda. Adds some depth to a team already 21 games over .500 without completely sinking the longer term plan.

  36. Lazy Bones Andruw Jones says:

    Anyone besides Montero and ManBan!

    Hughes, Betances, Romine and a lower level prospect or two.

  37. Monteroisdinero says:

    Still holding to the belief that Montero can catch. He has 5 PB this year-has a strong arm-frames well and has been coached by many excellent defenders. Some have said he is the best power bat/elite hitter coming
    up within our system since Mantle.

    Need to figure out a way to get Ubaldo and keep Montero. Great minds-get to work!

  38. theyankeewarrior says:

    I think you have to give up Montero/Betences/Nova for Ubaldo… worth it because no one is available for next year and this generation’s window is closing.

    Tex/Jeter/Alex/Mo/Swish/AJ etc. on the way down not up.

    • mbonzo says:

      Tex is 31, Swisher is 30. Is CC on his way down too?

      • Ted Nelson says:

        + Gardner + Cano + Granderson + Robertson + Joba + Martin + Nunez…

        I’m not sure this is a legit decision making criteria anyway, though it seems to be fairly pervasive in sports.

      • theyankeewarrior says:

        By the time another ace-type becomes available, the crop of players listed above will not produce the way that have been for the last 2-3 years.

        It’s almost a certainty.

        That’s why I would act now on a guy like Ubaldo.

        Montero + Betances + Nova + lesser prospects = fair deal.

        • Ted Nelson says:

          A. CJ Wilson is available this offseason. So is Edwin Jackson. Not Ubaldo, but good starters. The next offseason Jared Weaver, Cole Hamel, and others are hitting free agency. It’s almost a certainty very good pitchers will be available again before guys like Teixeira, Swisher, Granderson, Gardner, Cano, etc. stop producing.

          B. A fair market-value deal does not mean that it’s necessarily the right move. If Ubaldo’s overvalued/undervalued by the market and/or the Yankees’ prospect are undervalued/overvalued by the market it could be a bad/good deal.

          • Jim S says:

            “If Ubaldo’s overvalued/undervalued by the market and/or the Yankees’ prospect are undervalued/overvalued by the market it could be a bad/good deal.”

            That is like the most tautological statement in the history of tautological statements.

            I don’t mean that negatively, I actually think it proves your point quite well, I just thought it was funny.

            • Ted Nelson says:

              Yeah… I was trying to be tautological is refuting theyankeewarrior’s comment that basically said the Yankees have no choice but to trade for Ubaldo if they get a fair deal and want to add an ace.

      • theyankeewarrior says:

        No. CC is not on his way down. That’s why he’s not on the list. And have you checked out Tex’s numbers over the past 3.5 seasons?

        He is downward trending. 100%

        • Ted Nelson says:

          He has had a rough couple of seasons… that doesn’t mean that the trend will continue on a downward trajectory in the future. Saying it will is a mis-use of statistics. You can say that based on X evidence it is Y likely to continue trending downward by z, a, b, and c amounts D likely to stay fairly constant and E likely to improve by f, g, h, and i amounts. You can’t predict the future, though.

          And in terms of anecdotal evidence, the past 3 seasons should be Teixeira’s prime… I don’t think you’ll find a general trend saying that a great player who has a couple of relatively bad seasons in his prime is cooked.

    • oh no says:

      When was Rivera ever on his way down?

      • theyankeewarrior says:

        The point is that this year and next year might be the last years we have him. If we don’t stock up now (aka get a freaking #2 pitcher) we might be SOL in three seasons when we are still depending on the above crop of players to be performing at high levels.

        • Simon says:

          Please don’t tell me you got the “SOL – Surely Outta-Luck” thing from a Hyundai commercial?!? lol

        • Ted Nelson says:

          “If we don’t stock up now (aka get a freaking #2 pitcher) we might be SOL in three seasons when we are still depending on the above crop of players to be performing at high levels.”

          Or… Montero, Banuelos, Betances, Romine, etc. might be the new crop of players the Yankees are counting on in 3 years. Plus the guys they pick up with Jorge, Mo, Swisher, Soriano, etc’;s expiring salaries.

          There’s certainly a case for Ubaldo, but you are acting like there’s absolutely no case against him. There is. It’s a tough decision. Making it look like such an obvious decision doesn’t come across well to me.

          • David, Jr. says:

            It is an extremely tough call. I’m starting to think of pitching for pitching, assuming that they believe that Montero can catch. That would be Banuelos, Betances and more. Extremely painful, but isn’t that why the pitching was cultivated, to develop a #1/#2 starter?

            • Ted Nelson says:

              Depends how you project those two: what probabilities you give them to reach/sustain certain performance levels over certain time-frames. On the pessimistic side you’re looking at two top pitching prospects not equally one top pitcher, on the optimistic side you’re looking at a solid chance of two top pitchers so why trade them for one?

              It’s basic decision sciences.

              • David, Jr. says:

                Right. And also what else you think you have in your system. Even if somebody turns out good, that doesn’t matter if you don’t have any use for them. I believe that was the thinking with Austin Jackson. He was good, and it was giving up something to get something, but they must have had enough faith in Gardner to think that he wouldn’t be needed.

    • David, Jr. says:

      Swisher is on an uptrend the last two years, and I wouldn’t write off Tex just yet.

    • The Big City of Dreams says:

      The Yankee window has been closing forever but yet they are in it every yr.

  39. Cris Pengiuci says:

    I would wouldn’t go as far as you

  40. Why not both?

    CC
    Ubaldo
    Garcia
    Colon
    AJ

    Hughes back to the DL/AAA to un FK himself

  41. Angryankee says:

    I don’t understand the love affair with Hughes… I would trade him for Ian Kennedy in a heart beat!

    • theyankeewarrior says:

      He was this generation’s first legit prospect. So many people here love him. They baby him. They were there on draft day. They rocked him to sleep in A ball. They watched him get his first pimple in Trenton. They suffered through that awkward voice change in Scranton. And they saw him get his first kiss in Texas, right before he pulled him hamstring.

      And now we’re still waiting for him to become that ace that we always hoped for. Actually, we’re still waiting for him to develop a third offering.

      Actually, actually, we’re waiting for him to have one decent offering. because as of last month, he had no fastball, no curve, and no changeup.

      I would like nothing more for Cash to find a way for him to be shipped back West. 3/4 of the way to his return address. Colorado.

      • Ted Nelson says:

        A. He was far from the first legit prospect I followed, yet I still realize that having just turned 25 he’s still got time to become a valuable contributor.

        B. Trading players when their value is low is not always a good idea. If you don’t think their value will rebound, it makes sense. If you think their value will rebound, it makes little sense. If the Rockies somehow value Hughes really highly… sure. Is that likely, though?

    • The Big City of Dreams says:

      Valid points Ted. Although I do understand the frustration some fans have when it comes to Hughes

  42. sunil says:

    What do ppl think about the comparisons between hughes and nova as prospects?

  43. Andrew J. says:

    How about hughes, nova, montero and swisher for King Felix? Put jeter in the outfield, and live with Nunez at shortstop or go after hanley.
    AJ

  44. sunil says:

    What do ppl think about the comparisons between hughes and nova as prospects? If the yanks could keep only one, which would you take?

    • mbonzo says:

      Hughes by far.

    • Monteroisdinero says:

      Nova.

    • YankeesJunkie says:

      Comparing Hughes and Nova as prospects is as idiotic as it sounds. Hughes was a #1 propsect while Nova has never cracked the top 100. Where they are at each points of their career I think an argument could be made on either side of keeping 5 years of Nova or 2 years of Hughes. It all depends on whether you think Hughes can turn into a 4 WAR pitcher or not since Nova looks like he could probably put 1-2 WAR per season.

  45. Nuke LaDoosh says:

    I hope Ninja Cash has acquired a Starting Pitcher prior to the Jeter HBO special tonight at 8Pm CT, so I can work the RAB Open Thread as a welcome distraction.

  46. Bronx Byte says:

    I’m tired of pampering Hughes. It’s been going on since 2007. Make him a part of any deal.

    • Jim S says:

      Logic fail.

      If he sucks, what team is going to take him in a deal?

      And if he gets better, why would we deal him when we need pitching? You can’t have it both ways, that’s not how trades work.

      Also, no, it hasn’t been going on since 2007. If anything, it has been going on since the ASB last year.

  47. Mike c says:

    Must the Yankees really choose one though? If the price is not right, we need to wait

    • Monteroisdinero says:

      Correct. There is no must. We don’t have to trade our big prospects. Bartolo and Freddy want to shine in the post season and make some more dinero. One last hurrah.

  48. The Big City of Dreams says:

    I’m just saying that “ceiling” doesn’t have much to do with expectations… a player can have a certain ceiling and you can expect that he’s very unlikely to reach that ceiling

    ————————-

    I know what you meant. I was just joking Ted.

  49. MikeD says:

    Has Erik Bedard been featured here at RAB as a potential arm? I might have missed it. He’s highly injury prone, but he’s a lefty who is also quite good when he can take the mound. I wouldn’t recommend signing him as a free agent, but I also wouldn’t recommend against acquiring him as a couple months or so rental.

  50. Andrew Brotherton says:

    Nova, Betances, Joseph, Warren for Ubaldo

  51. cranky says:

    If Cashman could obtain Jimenez for a package of Hughes/Nova/Romine and Corban Joseph (I’ve thrown that last name in because the Rockies reportedly like Joseph a lot), he’d be a fool not to do it.

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