Measuring Jorge Posada’s Bat Speed*


(AP Photo/Chris O'Meara)

* Disclaimer: I did not actually measure Jorge Posada‘s bat speed.

We’re almost exactly two-thirds of the way through the season now, and it’s painfully obvious at this point that Posada is pretty much done. I love Jorge, I think he’s one of the greatest Yankees of all-time and one of the most underrated players of the last 15 years, but he’s been an offensive black hole for most of the season. Yes, he’s hitting a respectable .285/.347/.405 since May 17th (when he pulled himself out of the lineup), but that’s buoyed by a three-week hot streak immediately following the incident. Posada is hitting .252/.310/.388 over the last seven weeks and .236/.318/.382 on the season. That’s a .307 wOBA and a .146 ISO, easily the lowest marks of his career (not counting his injury plagued 2008 season).

Although his .269 BABIP is low (.316 career), there’s been a pretty drastic shift in his batting ball profile leading to the drop. His line drive rate is just 16.7%, down from 20.8% from 2008-2010 and his lowest since the data started being recorded in 2002. A 45.2% ground ball rate (his highest since 2004) and an utter lack of speed will also contribute to a lower than usual BABIP. Also, man just watch the games. Jorge doesn’t hit the ball with much authority these days. He hasn’t hit a ball out of the park in over a month and has just three homers since late-April, almost 90 team games. At 39 years old (40 in two weeks) and with all those years of catching on his body, frankly it’s a miracle Posada stayed as productive as long he did.

Thanks to this post over at Getting Blanked, I found out that Hit Tracker records “ball off the bat” speed for all homeruns. That’s pretty amazing, and I wish they had it for all batted balls, but I don’t want to sound greedy. One day we’ll have that data, maybe. Anyway, the table on the right shows Posada’s various ball of the bat speeds through the years. Remember, it’s just homeruns, so we’re talking about pretty small samples. In fact, he hit just three homers in 2008 because of the shoulder injury, so you can probably just disregard that year.

The data is pretty consistent from year to year, averaging right around 105 mph and topping out at north of 110 mph pretty much each year. It’s dropped off this year, about four miles an hour on average. His maximum ball off the bat speed this year is short of his averages for the last four years. Although this is just homeruns (all nine of ‘em in 2011), it’s does support the claim that Posada just isn’t hitting the ball with much authority these days, a claim also supported by his declining line drive rate and the eye test. Less hard contact is a symptom of declining bat speed, so the title isn’t that erroneous.

Had Posada not been “Jorge Posada, All-Time Yankee Great,” he would have been jettisoned many moons ago. He’s basically a switch-hitting version of 2007 Josh Phelps this season, a sometimes first baseman/sometimes DH/emergency catcher that can’t really hit (Phelps hit .263/.330/.363 as a Yankee, better than what Posada is going this year). Phelps was cut in mid-June that year, but Posada met no such fate. Despite his utter luck of offensive production at a position designed only to produce offense, it looks like Jorge will spend the rest of the year with the Yankees before being put out to pasture after the season. The signs of decline are obvious though, and I didn’t need to look at the speed of the ball of his bat to tell you that.

Categories : Offense


  1. xnyles says:

    Thank you for the memories , Jorge.

  2. Bartolo's Colon says:

    look on the bright side, at least he’s not behind the plate this year.

    • Foghorn Leghorn says:

      bright side #2…his contract is done after this year. It may be hard to imagine, but Arod and Jeter’s final year(s) may be more painful. Arod may not even suit up for the final two years of his deal.

      • Rookie says:

        Bingo, Foghorn Leghorn. Bingo.

      • MannyGeee says:

        yeah right. as long as A-Rod is under 755 HR’s, he will be dragging his corpse out to the plate.

        • Sayid J. says:

          Well, let me tell you ahead of time so that it doesn’t shock you… if A-Rod is still under 755 home runs during the last year or two of his contract, then the contract will have been a failure far before we get to that point.

    • Rookie says:

      Amen. Thank goodness somebody had the cajones to remove him from behind the plate — since it’s pretty clear he would never have removed himself even if he’d been catching using a cane or a walker.

      Here’s hoping that somebody in the Yankees hierarchy has the same kind of cajones when the time comes to do the same with Jeter and ARod.

  3. Foghorn Leghorn says:

    Jorge Posada…Offensive Black Hole…

    when you wrote that did you mean “Offensive” as in not on defesne or “Offensive” as in causing displeasure or resentment

    …or both???

  4. Craig says:

    Soif Montero gets called up and lights the world on fire, who do the Yankees put on the postseason roster? And where does Jorge wind up after this year?

  5. KeithK says:

    Josh Phelps was making $600k in 2007. It’s a lot easier to cut a player making $600k than a guy making 20 times that. Even if it is a ll sunk cost.

    • Ted Nelson says:

      It’s also a lot harder to cut a guy who has a .347 wOBA and 117 RC+ from the left-side, and is 7/16 with a double and two walks in the last week.

  6. Favrest says:

    I love Jorge. He’s done, and he’s clearly having a really hard time accepting that.

    • Ted Nelson says:

      Or maybe fans are having a really hard time accepting that he can still contribute from the left-side… guy is at a .347 wOBA and 117 RC+ from the left-side this season and 7/16 with a double and two walks in the last week. If that’s “done” then I wish a lot more players were “done.”

      • Favrest says:

        He’s the worst DH in the AL East. And like I said, I’m a big fan of his. He’s a great a Yankee. He should have retired after last year. It’s hard to watch him play, but if you want to remind us that he hit over .300 in weekday night games in the month of July, knock yourself out, if it makes you feel better.

        • He’s the worst DH in the AL East.

          That’s true. Does it matter, though?

          Information like that is useful in deciding whether or not to give him a new contract when he hits free agency this winter (which obviously we won’t); it’s not all that useful in deciding whether or not to cut/bench him.

        • Ted Nelson says:

          “He’s the worst DH in the AL East.”

          Not true. He’s not the Yankees’ DH. He’s part of a platoon. Johnny Damon has a .330 wOBA against righties, Jorge a .347. He’s then complemented by the likes of Jones and A-Rod.

          “but if you want to remind us that he hit over .300 in weekday night games in the month of July, knock yourself out, if it makes you feel better.”

          A switch-hitter playing in a platoon’s platoon splits are not a marginal thing.

  7. Bronx Byte says:

    Very few players ever see their bat speed stay the same when they reach Jorge’s age. Some can make adjustments to cheat a little with good fastballs and sometimes will guess wrong.

  8. Cris Pengiuci says:

    I really hope he doesn’t look to come back next year. Clearly the Yankees won’t want him (they’d offer a ridiculously small contract , if anything) and I’d hate to see him move on to another team. He’s 40 years old. Ancient for a ball player, especially a catcher. Hope he just moves on to the next stage in his life and enjoys the fruits of his labor.

    • Nuke Ladoosh says:


    • nsalem says:

      They might offer him a small contract but i doubt it will be to play baseball. Citing his health issues will be an easy way out.

      • Foghorn Leghorn says:

        if the yanks offer him anything other than some advisory role they are nuts. its time to cut ties, just like they did with matsui and damon after 2009.

        jorge’s last contract was a “thanks for all those great yrs” contract.

        there is no time to get sentimental here and if they do, we’re DOOOOOMMMED!

        • vin says:

          “if the yanks offer him anything other than some advisory role they are nuts.”

          Yes, exactly. At this rate, he’s not worthy of a 25 man roster spot on the Yankees… it’s that simple.

          “its time to cut ties, just like they did with matsui and damon after 2009. ”

          Not quite. The Yanks offered Damon a respectable contract, and probably would have offered Matsui some sort of contract later in the offseason. Hideki smartly jumped on the Angels offer early in the winter.

          • Ted Nelson says:

            “At this rate, he’s not worthy of a 25 man roster spot on the Yankees… it’s that simple.”

            His wOBA is .347 against RHP and he’s 7/16 in the past week. He is worth a roster spot for the Yankees. Check out the facts.

            • Jetrer says:

              that’s for this year. They are talking about whether to offer him a contract for next year, which clearly they should not, regardless of what he does for the rest of the season.

              • Ted Nelson says:

                Good point, I missed that in my rush to comment to everyone disparaging Posada.

                For next season I would offer him a ST invite/MiLB deal, but probably hint that if he could get something better elsewhere he should take it (if he wants to play). There is some chance he could contribute, but I agree it’s slim.

                • Mike HC says:

                  If you think that based on this season Jorge is only worth a minor league deal, why are you arguing so vehemently that Jorge has justified his spot on the roster/lineup this season? You are obviously skeptical of how much he is going to be able to produce from here on out like the rest of us.

    • Xstar7 says:

      The Yankees have already stated they will not resign him after his current contract expires. So if he is still in the MLB in 2012, it won’t be for the New York Yankees.

  9. Foghorn Leghorn says:

    I feel for you jorge…i will turn the big 4-0 about a month after you. Adn I lost my bat speed long ago. Thank god for the little blue pill!

  10. Scout says:

    Past time to DFA him. Yes, it’s a cold world, but winning comes first. And second. And third.

  11. leo says:

    come on, the guy is in his final year and has done so much for the yankees and you guys won’t even want him to keep his spot?

    • Scout says:

      If spots on a roster were unlimited and he could just warm the bench, none of us would have a problem keeping him. But there are a fixed and finite number of spots, and he’s occupying one that could be given to a more productive player.

      • CUYanks says:

        Maybe DL him with a vague injury until the rosters expand.

      • Ted Nelson says:

        “he’s occupying one that could be given to a more productive player.”

        More productive that getting on base 9 of his last 18 PAs? More productive than .347 wOBA against righties this season? Really?

        • Scout says:

          Yeah, he’s red hot. Let’s move him up to clean-up while we’re at it.

          • Ted Nelson says:

            He is hot… not sure why there’s any need to be sarcastic about it.

            • Stephen R. says:

              HEY MAN, any idea what Posada’s wOBA against righties this season is?

              • Ted Nelson says:

                Any value to posting that comment at all?

                • Stephen R. says:

                  Well I just kinda want you to know that I dont find any value in any of your comments ever, and that I get this annoyed…feeling whenever I see your name pop up, and that I wish you would stop commenting. So in that sense, yeah, I get some value out of mocking you, because its a way of blowing off a little steam since you won’t buzz off already.

                  • Ted Nelson says:


                    Good for you. There have been a bunch of commenters here, even on this very thread, who feel differently.

                    I don’t go on your articles and tear you apart. I probably will start doing that now. I usually just ignore them because I don’t find them to be interesting in the least… but I’ll make sure to take a look from now on.

                  • Wooderson says:

                    jeez we fucking get it, you can stop sucking posada’s dick now, ted. holy shit.

                    • Ted Nelson says:

                      ? I’m missing the connection between Stephen’s brilliant comment and this one…

                      I have expressly said that I’m not saying Posada is having a good season, by the way, and am merely saying that Mike and others are making his season look worse than it is in an effort to make their point seem more obvious than it is. There is an argument for cutting Jorge, certainly, but there’s also an argument against it that’s a lot stronger if you realize he has a drastic platoon split and on the season has handled RHP respectably.

  12. Joe Boo says:

    Fun to look at, Jeter’s HR speed has not declined at all even though we clearly see his bat slowing down.

    2006- 103.1
    2007- 102.6
    2008- 101.8
    2009- 100.2
    2010- 104.0
    2011- 102.7

  13. Angel Dones says:

    Cut the guy some slack maybe he is slowing down but hes def not done…its not only about offense hes a major part of the defensive lineup..who knows if next week he’ll change for the better…gotta give athletes chances not sat their done like that

  14. Angel Dones says:

    Cut the guy some slack maybe he is slowing down but hes def not done…its not only about offense hes a major part of the defensive lineup..who knows if next week he’ll change for the better…gotta give athletes chances not say their done like that

    • pat says:

      Defensive lineup?

      • vin says:

        Honestly, how many other guys on this team can “play” DH?

        Also, haven’t you ever seen him warm up a pitcher between innings after the starting catcher had just finished running the bases? His defensive value is immeasurable.

    • ADam says:

      The slack he is getting is that he’s on the major league roster…. I love Jorge..but the guys is done, he’s offensive black hole

    • David, Jr. says:

      Yes. Spectacular defense. Also a tremendous baserunner. Like he is wearing an iPod.

    • Mike HC says:

      He might not be done, but his upside at this age is really not worth keeping him in the starting lineup especially with a major league ready DH top prospect. The only reason he has gotten the leash he has is because of all that he has done for the Yanks in the past. Which is guess is only right. But even that long leash should be coming to an end.

      • Ted Nelson says:

        “The only reason he has gotten the leash he has is because of all that he has done for the Yanks in the past.”

        No. It’s because he’s at a .347 wOBA as a lefty. If Jesus Montero put up a .347 wOBA against RHP as a 21 year old rookie that would be a shock. Jorge’s on the roster because he can still hit RHP, and Jesus is in AAA so he develops.

        • Midland TX says:

          Keep fighting the good fight, man.

        • Mike HC says:

          Not that I’m looking to jump into this argument, ha, but I never mentioned cutting Jorge from the roster. I wanted him out of the starting lineup, and moved into more of a bench player role, with Montero picking up the slack.

      • OldYanksFan says:

        Hey… we’re talking about Po here… not Jeter!

  15. nsalem says:

    He can go from the batting rack to L____”s Ra_K

  16. ADam says:

    No Lineup yet… Move on the way??

  17. Naved says:

    Montero is a better option than Jorge right now. This team is about winning now.

    • Cris Pengiuci says:

      And the team is doing just that with Posada at DH. Have you checked the standings lately? Not saying that Posada is ideal, but there’s no need to push him out before the roster expands. There’s still time to brng Montero up. Transitions to the Majors don’t always go smoothly. How would Yankee fans react if he performed as Mike Trout did?

      • Johnny Nitro says:

        I bet RAB exceeds its bandwidth with all the “Teh Bust!!!!!!!!!!!!” comments.

      • Ted Nelson says:

        Especially since Jorge’s performance from the left is solid this season and he’s actually 7/16 with a double and two BBs in the last week.

        • Mike Axisa says:

          You should know better than to use 16 at-bats over two weeks as evidence of anything.

          • Ted Nelson says:

            You should know better than to give a crap analysis that omits half the story… but apparently you don’t.

            It’s one week. 7 days. The reason I keep referring to that is people continue to say he needs to be cut now and is hurting the Yankees chances of winning. That flies in the face of his recent performance. As I’ve said before, you seem to miss context an awful lot. Nunez was a prospect because he plays SS. Garcia was not just injured on-and-off for 3 years straight… he had one injury and has been healthy and fairly effective since recovering.

            The bigger point that you’ve been missing again, and again, and again… is that Jorge is at a .347 wOBA against RHP. Why you absolutely refuse to include that fact in any article you write about Jorge this season is beyond me.

              • Ted Nelson says:

                Fuck you too. Try writing some decent articles from time to time and maybe they’ll include your articles during the week too.

                • Stephen R. says:

                  yeah man those are some really good points, im going to go home and think about this for awhile. thanks for the feedback, and if you have any ideas for me on how to get better please send ‘em my way. thanks bro

                • We have. In fact, he wrote something that went up on the weekend that we liked so much that we re-ran it later that week.

                • Xstar7 says:

                  They’re called the “weekend writers” for a reason. They only write during the weekends. And you don’t have to read them.

                  • Ted Nelson says:

                    I’m called a “commenter” for a reason too, and he doesn’t have to read my comments or respond to them in snipe ways either… so I’m not sure why you would choose to tell me he’s a weekend writer and not tell him I’m a commenter.

                    • Xstar7 says:


                      This thread was pretty out of control though. All over Jorge’s diminished role with the team. Coming from a Posada apologist, we have to accept the fact that his days in Pinstripes are numbered. Because he’s not going to be back in 2012. Enjoy him while he lasts.

                    • Mister Delaware says:

                      I believe you meant “snide”.

                    • Ted Nelson says:

                      Yeah, I don’t think Jorge is great or anything. I just think it becomes more of a debate when you consider his splits, whereas ignoring them makes it seem obvious he should be cut.

                      Mr. Doucheaware,
                      Do you never make typos? If you are a better typist than me, I applaud you.

                    • Mister Delaware says:

                      Its probably because I use fingertips rather than angry fists.

          • noseeum says:

            “You should know better than to use 16 at-bats over two weeks as evidence of anything.”

            This coming from the author of the article above, which uses 9 swings of the bat to talk about a player’s declining skills. I love when an article contains something along the lines of “I know this is a small sample size, but…”

            So if Ted had begun his comment that way would he be forgiven?

            I’m not saying I agree with Ted in this thread, but I must say it’s pretty disappointing to see the staff of this site gang up on a commenter in such a childish way. I would think you guys would help to elevate the conversation, not dive down in the gutter with the rest of them.

            This data is interesting for a gander, but ball speeds on 9 swings is not much of a basis for any type of analysis. And when an article uses 9 swings, a commenter of said article can’t justifiably be attacked for using 16 whole at bats.

            They’re both equally useless. People in glass houses shouldn’t throw stones and all that jazz.

    • Jack Merridew says:

      I agree and I agree with Mike’s analysis. Jorge is in decline and Montero is the better option right now. From what we heard yesterday Jesus will be up very soon, hopefully for Cervelli.

      • Cris Pengiuci says:

        And you know Montero is the better option how? Is it because he’s hit right handed Major League pitching so well in the past?

      • Favrest says:

        There few statements that I’ve read in my life that more wrong than that

        • It’s true, though.

          This team is not about winning now. The Indians are about winning now. The Brewers are about winning now.

          This team is about winning now AND LATER. This team is about winning now always.

          Teams that are about winning now sacrifice the future for the present. Teams that are about winning every year try to add as much veteran talent as possible while still hoarding young generational talent to serve as the core of a DECADE-LONG title chase instead of a single-year title chase.

          • KeithK says:

            Exactly. People need to remember that the reason the Yankees have been so good for a decade and a half is that they’ve had a core of really good players – generational talent – to build the team around. The Yankees of the late 80′s – early 90′s were about winning now. That’s how we got Ken Phelps, Tim Leary, Andy Hawkins.

          • Xstar7 says:

            There are few statements that I’ve read in my life that are more RIGHT then that.

  18. Ted Nelson says:

    Pathetic. How many articles is this on Jorge without referring to his splits? Honestly, what do you have against the guy? You’re telling half the story. It’s getting ridiculous.

    His overall wOBA is .307… but from the left side it is .347. Not great, but not “done.” His 117 RC+ and .347 wOBA from the left would put him at 7th among 16 DHs with 200 PAs this season.

    You are feeding the ignorant masses the selected information they want to hear. Shame on you, honestly. As with many of your other hard-headed stands, you need to look at context.

    • “You are feeding the ignorant masses the selected information they want to hear.”

      Yeah, cutting up the sample of his 2011 season isn’t picking from selected information. Nope nope nope.

      • Mister Delaware says:

        Its not even a valid complaint. The article is about bat speed and the entire sample is left-handed HRs, its not like there are any right-handed ones that could be pulling down the average.

        • Ted Nelson says:

          “The article is about bat speed”

          You really aren’t very smart, huh, opportunity cost guy? He uses bat speed to conclude that Jorge Posada should be cut. The article is as much about Jorge Posada deserving to be cut as it is about bat speed.

          Why not leave the thinking to other people in the future?

          • Mister Delaware says:

            “He uses bat speed to conclude that Jorge Posada should be cut.”

            Isn’t that a decent conclusion, given the data he introduced showing a drop in average and max?

            Serious question: What causes an angry person like yourself to spend so much time on a website full of people you don’t like and who don’t like you?

      • Ted Nelson says:

        Newsflash: Jorge Posada is a switch-hitter.
        Newsflash: Jorge is hitting RHP very respectably this season.
        Newsflash: Jorge was hitting so crap from the right side this season that he is basically no longer allowed to hit from the right side.
        Newsflash: Jorge is a platoon player at this point.
        Newsflash: Platoon players’ splits are not selective information. If I gave you Marcus Thames splits, would you call that selective info? Andruw Jones? Those are platoon guys who are a lot less useful since LHP is much scarcer than RHP.

        Jorge has basically become a platoon player against RHP.
        By ignoring this fact Mike has fed an ignorant belief that Jorge is useless overall… he’s not, he still hits RHP respectably. He’s incited a flurry of comments about how Jorge should be cut in favor of a 21 year old rookie. If anything, there is room on the roster for both Jorge and Jesus to see how Jesus looks before cutting ties with a good LHB before the playoffs. Simply pointing to his platoon splits would have avoided this and educated the lynch mob about what is really going on. Mike chose to incite them rather than educate them… which is like the fourth time this season you or he has written an article bashing Jorge with no mention of platoon splits.

        • Because, NEWSFLASH!!!!!!!!!!, he has those ABs against RHP, and they drag down his overall production for the team. NEWSFLASH!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! He hit like shit in the month of July, when he was, by your telling, a platoon player hitting only against RHP. He still didn’t hit for power, he still didn’t get on base. Oh, but he’s hit a few singles in the past few weeks so let’s forget the slumps. And, NEWSFLASH!!!!!!!!!!, as Mister Delaware points out, all of the velocity numbers mentioned in the article are against RHP, since he hasn’t hit any homers off LHP.

            • Hey, I’m not the one who’s making the following argument:

              Stats with splits: not selective information
              Stats without splits: selective information

              • I was more referring to Ted Nelson’s unending vendetta against the RABbis and a few board regulars for the legion of slights he’s built up against the world, and the great vengance and furious anger (and verbosity) with which he lays his wrath upon thee.

                • Mister Delaware says:

                  I’m sort of hoping he answers my question, maybe we can help him. Right now he’s like Mel Hall and the Mel Hall story ends poorly.

                • Why are you guys ganging up on poor Ted? Can’t you see it’s him against the world? He’s just trying to fight the good fight against these oppressive bloggers and their sheep! What do you want him to do, quit reading the free content if it offends him so much?


                • Ted Nelson says:

                  I have no vendetta against the RABis… I come to their site because I think it’s well-run along with the generally above average comments (which at times is a bit like calling someone an above average offensive SS… but things are all relative).

                  I’m not going to bow down to the guys who write the articles when I disagree with them and just beat up on the stupid commenters who leave stupid comments, though. When I feel like a “RABi” or more intelligent commenter makes a poor point I will say it just like I would to some idiot who makes a completely ridiculous comment.

                  This is like the third, fourth, fifth (I don’t know) article this season trashing Jorge without mentioning his splits. It’s like the obsession with Nunez not being a prospect, Garcia and Colon not possibly contributing, Culver and Bichette being the worst picks ever, etc. They fixate on certain things and keep beating them to death… sometimes marginally or completely in opposition to reality.

                  • JobaWockeeZ says:

                    t’s like the obsession with Nunez not being a prospect, Garcia and Colon not possibly contributing, Culver and Bichette being the worst picks ever, etc.

                    It’s funny that none of those have been argued by the three writers. Anyone can exaggerate you know.

                    • Ted Nelson says:

                      Hum? The three writers have written articles about all of these subjects.

                      Mike did not list Nunez among his top 30 prospects just a year ago, but his distaste for Nunez was pretty prevalent on the site last season.

                      There were tons of articles about how Garcia and Colon were worthless. Colon… who knew about the stem cell stuff? I certainly didn’t expect this. Garcia, though, it was a blatant ignorance of the facts.

                      Mike and at least one of the other writers (think it was Ben… not sure) have gone on tirades about the Bichette pick.

                    • JobaWockeeZ says:

                      Nunez not being a top 30 prospect is valid argument but that doesn’t mean he didn’t think he was a prospect. He thought he was a bad prospect. But sure I’ll give you that.

                      Colon and Garcia were never called useless by Mike. Mike even wanted Colon to start over Garcia judging form the results of the preseason games. You argued otherwise. For Garcia, if we read the recaps of when he pitches Mike never calls him useless. I mean he could have called him useless for the postseason but that’s a different animal.

                      He never called Bichette and Culver the worst picks ever and you know it. Unless you think if it’s not praise it means harsh criticism but yes he never called them the worst picks ever.

                      I don’t want to sound like I’m sucking him off though just saying.

                    • Ted Nelson says:

                      With Colon I’m referring to the off-season and with Garcia to the off-season and pre-season. Though there are still frequent article about how the Yankees “NEED” another SP or those guys “WILL” break down.

                      With the worst picks ever thing I was exaggerating. And actually remembering wrongly: Mike did kill the Bichette pick… but it was the Culver pick Ben or someone was killing. Saying he should not be expected to ever snap out of his early season funk this year because he was such an awful pick.

                  • Stephen R. says:

                    Then get your own blog and put this all down in a blog entry so we can all get together and collectively ignore it just like we collectively ignore your comments!

                    • Ted Nelson says:

                      Seriously man? Did you not read the comment? I said that this is a well run site.

                      I have no idea what your role even is… why don’t you get your own site?

                      You may ignore my comments, but clearly others don’t. Why make an ass out of yourself my pretending to speak for others? You can make an argument by just stating your own feelings without trying to make it seem like everyone ignores my comments. That is clearly not in-line with reality.

                    • Ted Nelson says:

                      Hell, clearly you don’t ignore my comments if you’re responding to them.

            • Mister Delaware says:

              Or goodly, depending on which result you’re hoping for.

          • Ted Nelson says:

            Newsflash: you’re not addressing the point. His splits are not selective information. They are relevant info that needs to be included in an analysis of him. This site continues to refuse to include them. I am not trying to argue that Jorge Posada is having a great year or even a good year. I am trying to argue that the case is a lot less clear when you consider his splits. By ignoring his splits Mike has created somewhat of a strawman. He could have made a case that he’s having a bad year, that his bat speed has declined, even that he should be cut without creating a strawman.

            Jorge hasn’t just held onto his roster spot because of his stature. Remember that he was bumped down in the line-up. He has held onto it by hitting righties and by going on a tear there for a while.

  19. Yank The Frank says:

    For all he has done for the Yankees deal with him as best you can for the rest of the year. He can still contribute off the bench. We have enough firepower to carry him.

  20. yankee_lover says:

    if jesus comes up and performs like mike trout most people on here would be crying 4 him to be traded

  21. Mister Delaware says:

    That off-the-bat speed is awesome. Would love to see the complete database and see if certain pitchers really do consistently induce bad contact and to what extent. Then I’d like to go back in time and get all of Greg Maddux’s data.

  22. AC says:

    We all like Posada but it’s time to move on after this year

  23. JU says:

    Measuring Jorge Posada’s bat speed….with a sundial.

  24. David, Jr. says:

    I could be called some kind of an ignoramus (don’t really care), but to me the biggest thing is that he isn’t a very good use of a roster spot. If say he could hit well from both sides of the plate, plus be the backup catcher, that would have some real value to the roster.

  25. nsalem says:

    Even with the last week, Posada has had a poor July. If his overall numbers for August are similar to July, and a significant upgrade was available at the end of the month, (especially someone with speed and a good glove) I would not hesitate to release him. The Yankee’s are in the business of winning championships and sentimentality should have no place in the decision making process. The Yankee’s have shown their appreciation for Posada where it counts. in the generous contract they gave him following the 2007 season. It will be a tough enough road this year to get back to the World Series and win another ring. FO would be cheating their fan base if they didn’t take every opportunity to do so. I hope Jorge has an August similar to his June and he lights up the October skies one last time. If that is not the case it would not be disrespectful to replace him with someone that can give us a better chance to obtain our goals.

    • Yank The Frank says:

      Except you won’t know that until after it’s all over. I say give him the benefit of the doubt and one more shot at greatness.

    • Cris Pengiuci says:

      I understand your point to an extent. However, I highly doubt anyone that fits your definition of an upgrade (better bat, good speed and useful in the field) will be available. Also, while winning is extremely important to the Yankees and their fans, I don’t think they’d cut ties with Jorge at this point. That would also cheating the fans, to not have Jorge finish this season as a Yankee, don’t you think? I do. I just don;t see the Yankees being quite that cut-throat with him. Might they leave him off the playoff roster if Montero or someone else storms onto the scene? Yes, but I don’t think the release him before the year’s done.

      • nsalem says:

        I have a place in my hear for Jorge, and that suitable upgrade probably won’t come up. If he has another .220/290 type month and is only facing RHP and the opportunity presents itself. I would do it. I’m not that sentimental and trying to improve your team is not disrespectful. The one additional right player can be the difference between winning and losing. If someone can give us a clear better chance take it.

  26. Rich says:

    When A-ROD comes back who would you rather have as your DH against righties—Posada or Chavez? Even if they don’t bring up Montero until September Chavez should take over as the lefty DH.

    • Jetrer says:

      Probably ARod will mostly DH against righties to protect him from injuries with Chavez at third. At that point, there really wouldn’t be much of a role left for Posada.

  27. nsalem says:

    I don’t totally agree with Ted in the points he is trying to make on this post. However I agree with some of his sentiments and believe he is by far one of the most intelligent commentators on this site. I always look
    forward to reading what he has to say and value his insights.

    • Ted Nelson says:

      Thanks, appreciate it.

      • CS Yankee says:

        Really enjoy most of your posts…IMHO however, have noticed that you always don’t play well with others.

        My image of you, is the same of the bad rap that plagues a German Sheppard…smart, loyal but you don’t want to leave it alone with the kids.

        • Ted Nelson says:

          Yeah, it’s definitely a weakness. I think it’s also a function of communicating over blogs (maybe communicating in general… but I don’t have this problem much in real life) where people (including myself) tend to read between the lines and assume others are taking extreme positions. Then again a lot of people do feel the need to take ridiculously extreme positions, especially about what’s going to happen in the future… where I think it’s obvious we should talk about probabilities of various outcomes rather than one thing that will inevitably happen. I also think it’s largely just that I don’t like to drop things. I’ll admit it if I think I’m wrong, but if I think I’m right I’m not going to let it go.

          I think you’d probably be surprised to meet me. I was a bit more… I don’t know, feisty… when I was younger, but I’m a pretty chill guy.

          Obviously not always, but in general I try to show people the same respect they show me. In some cases that’s not much respect… as Stephen R.’s sudden random vendetta against me seems to show. I honestly barely “know” who the guy is (even in terms of knowing people in a blog setting), and apparently I am his mortal enemy.

    • David, Jr. says:

      I agree with this.

    • Wooderson says:

      oh hey ted

  28. noseeum says:

    No reason to DFA Jorge. That’s just heartless. They’ll have the full 40 in less than a month, and they’re going to the playoffs. A playoff roster spot is a different story. He can hang on the bench whether he’s active or not.

  29. CS Yankee says:

    Reading the threads and the anger associated with them is quite sad.

    The bad Jorge…
    No doubt he has a slower bat
    No doubt he is the suck against lefties
    No doubt that he can no longer catch
    No doubt he is the worst baserunner on the team (maybe pros)

    The good Jorge…
    No doubt that he is decent against RHP
    No doubt that he can play 1B once in awhile
    No doubt that he’ll help the september call-ups
    No doubt that he won’t be affective by “the moment” come postseason

    The bads outweigh the goods as we have a weak hitting bench guy in Chavez who also has no power but is stronger with the glove.

    Give him a lighter bat, less chances and move along with the season. Have Hank & Randy throw a party for him at Christmas and let’s all realize he is here for two (or so) more months before they (yes they, not he) hang him up and spring for a plaque.

  30. Stephen R. says:

    Can anyone tell me how many hits Jorge Posada has in his last 16 at-bats and also what his wOBA is from the left side this year???

  31. Monteroisdinero says:

    Nasty thread. This would all have been so simple with Montero as the righty DH/part-time and backup catcher on opening day, Sado the lefty DH, no Andruw Jones and Golson as our 4th outfielder/late inning defensive replacement. He wouldn’t have even played much since our outfielders have been healthy. All would be settled.

    /runs for cover

  32. OldYanksFan says:

    If we continue to have a strict platoon at DH, here are the numbers accumulated so far (facing opposite hand pitchers):

    Andruw: 93 AB, 6 HRs, .268, .355, .524, .879
    Posada: 243 AB, 9 HRs, .266, .346, .444, .790
    This averages out to an OPS around .815.

    It is not ideal, but since Jones IS our 4th OFer, having him get ABs at DH actually keeps him fresher, and keeps him from taking ABs from Gritner or Swisher. Not ideal, but not bad.

    There are 5 DH’s with an OPS over 815.
    The eye-ball calc says the average DH is somewhat under .800.

    • Mike HC says:

      My guess is that Jorge’s skills have not diminished that drastically against lefties, just an extremely bad small sample of at bats, but his continued success against righties is also not likely to be kept up. Just last year Jorge hit significantly better against lefties than righties and has hit better against lefties his entire career.

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