Open Thread: Beatdown in the Bronx

September 24, 2011 by Michael Axisa 128 Comments

maris family — From left, Roger Maris' sons Roger Maris Jr. and Richard Maris, daughters Sandra Maris-Fallo and Susan Maris, widow Pat Maris, sons Kevin Maris and Randy Maris pose by Roger's plaque in Monument Park to commemorate the 50th anniversary of Roger Maris' 61 home runs in 1961 before the New York Yankees baseball game against the Boston Red Sox Saturday, Sept. 24, 2011, at Yankee Stadium in New York. (AP Photo/Bill Kostroun)

See what happens when the A+ lineup starts against a left-hander? The Red Sox had no chance this afternoon. The Yankees scored eight runs off Jon Lester in less than three innings, meaning Boston’s bullpen will be that much more taxed for tomorrow’s doubleheader. Good times, good times.

Anyway, here is tonight’s open thread. The Mets are playing the second game of their doubleheader against Phillies (Gee vs. Blanton), and MLB Network will have the Rays and Blue Jays (Niemann vs. Romero). There’s also a ton of college football on, but talk about whatever you like. Have at it.

http://theevilsquare.com handtius

if we have a 2-1 game lead in the first round, why don’t the do a semi bullpen game? have burnett start with the understanding he’ll go 3 inning, then go straight to the best of the bullpen? wouldn’t this make more sense? burnett is usually good through the first 3-4 innings and then they get stuck with our best arms in short relief? wade, soriano, 2 from roberston, 1 from mo. and if we have a big lead, you send in the lesser arms.
- Griffey’s Grotesquely Swollen Jaw
  
  so a usual Burnett game then?
  
  instantrimshot.com
  - http://theevilsquare.com handtius
    
    yeah, just pull him before he gives up his contractual 5 runs in the 5th…or 4th…
- Monteroisdinero
  
  My thought was we would do this in the 3rd game with Bart and Freddy.
  - http://theevilsquare.com handtius
    
    i could see that, but bart has been giving it up early. i don’t see him as a guy you want throw as hard as he can in a short spurt. with all the movement he generates, he could end up losing that which has mad him successful this year.
- http://bleedingyankeeblue.com Jesse
  
  Absolutely not. I’m gonna pretend I didn’t read this.
  - http://theevilsquare.com handtius
    
    lets pretend you didn’t make this comment and you actually explain yourself. ok? good. it’s worked before. i know the theory that if you keep changing pitchers, one will have a bad day, but with our guys down there, those are few and far between. what is the alternative? throw cc on short rest and then not have him to open the next series? not a good idea.
    - http://bleedingyankeeblue.com Jesse
      
      And it’s a good idea to have A.J start a playoff game instead of CC to clinch a series?
      
      That’s not a bad idea, that’s a stupid idea.
      - Plank
        
        So you want CC to pitch games 1, 3, and 4?
        
        http://bleedingyankeeblue.com Jesse
        
        Nope. I want the Yankees to win the series. I’d have my rotation look like this in a 5 game series:
        
        1.CC
        2.Nova
        3.Freddy
        4.CC
        5.Nova
        
        Wouldn’t be surprised one bit if they had a 2-1 series lead after game 3 and they’d have CC to slam the door in game four.
        
        http://theevilsquare.com handtius
        
        who starts the first game of the next series?
        
        Freddy Garcia’s 86 mph Heat
        
        The same can be said for if CC pitches game 5. You want to avoid a game 5 at ALL COSTS.
        
        Plank
        
        Ah, see now commenter was talking about game 4. Still though, calling someone’s idea stupid is unnecessarily harsh on an internet message board. What’s your idea?
        
        I disagree with the AJ part of the plan, but if the bullpen hasn’t been taxed at all, it may be preferable to a Bartolo, Hughes, or AJ start at some point. The idea is clearly not stupid, you just disagree with it. So do I, but I can recognize that it’s not stupid.
        
        http://theevilsquare.com handtius
        
        thank you plank. if i could edit my first statement, i would say start hughes ofr three and then go to the bullpen. he may not be stretched out enough for more.
      - http://theevilsquare.com handtius
        
        so, you rather have cc start the last game of a 5 gmae series then the first of the 7 game series? that leads to less cc starts in more important games. if you don’t want aj, then go hughes for a few or bart. i’m just talking about the idea of throwing a bullpen game and not focusing on aj. forget aj exists (which would be easy for you) and the yanks don’t have a 4th but have a good long reliever, what’s wrong with trying this route? and now you can grow up and have a discussion instead of trying to insult someone else ideas.
        
        http://bleedingyankeeblue.com Jesse
        
        When did I say that I want him to start the final game of a 5 game series and then pitch the first game of the next series? I’m pretty much saying I want my best pitchers to pitch as often as possible. And btw, if he were to pitch game 4 and win that game he’d be going on three days rest if he started game 1 of the next series which is no big deal at all.
        
        And I don’t need an anonymous person to tell me to grow up. My God, you’re not my parent. I know a terrible idea when I see one, and starting A.J in a playoff game is a terrible idea. If you get insulted by what I said I suppose I’ll apologize, but that’s weak on your part to be offended by that.
        
        radnom
        
        Hey everyone, we’ve got an internet tough guy here.
        
        JMK
        
        Keep quiet if you know what’s good for you, that Jesse guy is a badass mothafucker.
        
        Plank
        
        If CC is ready to go in a win or go home scenario, he would start for 29 teams out of 30. If they win the game, he’ll still pitch 2 in the next series, if they lose, the season is over. There’s no decision to make.
  - Plank
    
    What’s with the attitude? I disagree with that plan too, but I would never be a jerk about it.
CBean

Rays pitching failing when they need it.
Monteroisdinero

Our best two hitters GOING FORWARD are Cano and Montero. Neither bats in the first inning. There will be changes coming.
- David, Jr.
  
  This. You are correct, Sir.
- http://bleedingyankeeblue.com Jesse
  
  Agreed.
- Rich in NJ
  
  I would change are to will be with respect to Montero. As long as they keep him (as they should if they’re smart given the age of their core hitters), he will bat high in the lineup. Cano wil probably bat 3rd or 4th next season.
  - Monteroisdinero
    
    Agreed. I can see Cano 3rd, ARod 4th and Montero 5th. Tex less likely to throw a tantrum than others.
    - http://www.youcantpredictbaseball.com bexarama
      
      I feel like Tex is actually way more likely to “throw a tantrum” than A-Rod at this point or Cano.
      
      And 5th/4th are probably more important than third, who bats with the bases empty and no one on probably too much.
      - Andrew 518
        
        From a production standpoint though, I would see A-rod as the one that should be moved down.
        
        Really for the short term I’d just flip flop Cano and A-Rod, have Montero bat in six spot. Montero will have his day as a clean up/three hitter, I might even prefer him in five hole, w/ A-Rod six, but from a realistic stand point it might be too much to ask A-Rod to drop that far down.
        
        Tex has had an up and down year, too many pop ups, but at this point he provides more power/walk potential than Alex, really more suited to three spot than five or six in my mind.
        
        a.hinds
        
        if healthy… i refuse to believe there is a better hitter on this team than a-rod.
http://johnsterling.blogspot.com/ Xstar7

The Yankees still have a shot at 100 wins. They have to go at least 4-1 in the last 5 games which can definitely be done.

Meanwhile the Rays are really missing out on a big opportunity to catch up to the Red Sox. They lost on Boston’s off-day yesterday and they’re already losing 2-0 to the Blue Jays today.
- http://bleedingyankeeblue.com Jesse
  
  The Yankees can’t win 100 games, they only have one lefty in their bullpen!
  
  /McCarver’d
- mbonzo
  
  Sure, the Yankees could go 4-1 in the next 5 games, but we’re gonna see Scranton out there against 2 teams hungry for wins.
  - Monteroisdinero
    
    Triple A + Jesus >>>>>>> Wakefield/Lackey
  - Freddy Garcia’s 86 mph Heat
    
    Scranton can and will tee off against Wakefield and Lackey.
  - http://johnsterling.blogspot.com/ Xstar7
    
    True. But the Yankees’ B team > at least half of the other teams in the MLB. Plus there’s the YCPB thing.
- Monteroisdinero
  
  A decrepit Red Sux team may be preferable in the playoffs.
  - http://johnsterling.blogspot.com/ Xstar7
    
    But a total Red Sox collapse would be the best thing in the universe. They’ll never be able to bring up 2004 again.
    - Kramerica Industries
      
      This x 100.
      
      We just the Yankees take three of four from a Rays team with much more on the line this week. There’s no reason to fear them anymore than the other AL playoff teams.
      
      Let the Red Sox finish out a historic collapse. Win the next two and then lay down against the Rays. A big, giant fuck you at the chowderheads.
    - Andrew 518
      
      We’re dealing with Sox fans here, no matter what happens from here on out we’ll always have to hear about 2004.
Sarah

Sort of what I’m thinking.
- Sarah
  
  Reply fail. Was meant to be a response to Monteroisdinero.
CBean

omg it’s like keystone jays in the first inning.
- Chop It Up
  
  That was quite simply the most horseshit fielding performance I have ever seen in a half inning of major league baseball. Good though, since Rays tied it up.
Sarah

I know the Os like playing spoiler, but we have tickets to Game 4 of the ALDS here in Arlington and I want to see the Yanks. So Detroit, get your sh*t together and beat the Os.
Monteroisdinero

CMW beats the Braves and gets his first hit!

YCPB
- http://bleedingyankeeblue.com Jesse
  
  Huh, he must have drawn a walk before rounding the bases in Houston while suffering that foot injury a few years back.
  - Freddy Garcia’s 86 mph Heat
    
    I think he reached on a FC bunt attempt.
Freddy Garcia’s 86 mph Heat

I wish they would have started Nova in the day game so we could see a Lackey/AJ matchup.
- Rey22
  
  The September Homerun Derby.
- Sarah
  
  But that game would last 6 hours.
- Jesus Freak
  
  Aj/Wake is gonna be pretty bad.
  
  Wakefield’s ERA in his lst 7 games is 5.54 with a .805 OPS
- LiterallyFigurative
  
  It could be dubbed the “Who’s 82.5 milion dollar contract is worse?” Bowl.
Monteroisdinero

Imagine what our offense will be like when our 50M dollars of corner infielders get hot.
Kramerica Industries

The Rays game is NOT on TV in the Tampa Bay area tonight, in lieu of Florida Atlantic/Auburn football.

Fucken bullshit at its finest. And then we wonder why baseball sucks in the TB market.
Karl Krawfid

Verlander is getting crushed man.
- Kramerica Industries
  
  Can’t finish the pursuit of 25 wins.
  
  Choker.
- pop up teixeira
  
  imagine if the orioles would play like this all season… that team is not messin around
- Rey22
  
  That’s a shame. I wanted him to get #25.
Rich in NJ

“This kid is something else.” – Freddy Garcia on Jesus Montero
- Finster
  
  Dear Lord Baby Jesus!
  
  /Ricky Bobby’d
- Monteroisdinero
  
  At 475K a year for 5 years: This kid is dinero.
Jesus Freak

Kontos for post season roster!
Jesus Freak

If Detroit goes on to lose (they’re down 5-1 in the 4th), Yanks secure home field advantage.
- CBean
  
  i’m not counting on anything yet. No one can pull defeat from the jaws of victory quite like the Orioles.
23553

I’s slightly surprised that Chien-Ming Wang never had a hit with the Yankees ,as even though he was an AL pitcher, he still had 15 AB, not a ton, but enough that odds are he would have a hit. And he had another 18 with the Nationals. But lo and behold, I go to the Nationals game, and in the fourth inning, Wang gets a hit (RBI single), and I see that it’s his first one. So congratulations to him.
- Plank
  
  And so CMW3K begins. 2999 to go.
Oliver Twist

Two things were sealed tonight- Freddy’s #3 rotation spot in the postseason and Jesus Montero’s playoff roster and DH spot. Hell of a game. Sweep the Sox and let the Rays do the rest.
Karl Krawfid

Yankees could be 1.5 games back of the best record in baseball if the Mets hang on.
- Rich in NJ
  
  Damn AS game h/f advantage rule…
  - Karl Krawfid
    
    Yeah that sucks, but to catch the Phils would be nice after all the talk about them and Boston and the start of the year.
bong hitter

hopefully verlander’s arm will fall off soon!
- http://danielslifka.wordpress.com Jerome S
  
  I ain’t afraid of no Verlander.
http://twitter.com/#!/czm93 Craig

So outta Montero, Posada, Jones, Chavez, Nunez- who gets left off? and who would everyone go for as the game 4 starter come CS and WS? I think we can all agree so far it goes CC, Nova, Garcia and then…..
- http://Www.or.ly MeGustaMontero (JM)
  
  I think it would be Colon for #4. IMO the long rest would probably help him return to form. No way you leave Jones off the roster, honestly Posada is the most “useless” but even he has a good line vs. Righties, so I don’t know that’s tough.
  - LiterallyFigurative
    
    First off, you can’t leave Nunez off the team, as he’s your backup middle fielder and pinch runner. I still don’t get the Nunez hate on this site (not saying you hate him).
    
    Posada has the least value, given that Chavez and Montero hit righties, and Jones and Montero hit lefties. Jorge’s spot depends totally on whether Girardi MUST have Romine as backup catcher (even though he’ll never start unless Martin is injured) or not.
    - http://Www.or.ly MeGustaMontero (JM)
      
      I should’ve mentioned Nunez as a given since that he can pinch run.
- YankeeJosh
  
  I don’t think you leave anyone off. That’s your bench and you go with the starting 9 and 11 pitchers for 25. No real need for a pinch runner since Nunez is there. No outfield defensive specialist but Gardner/Swisher/Grandy are fine. No back-up catcher is needed as Montero or Posada could catch in a pinch, if Martin gets hurt or pinch run for.
first time lawng time

The Red Sox, in their 110 year existence have won at least 100 games 3 times.

The Yankees have reached 100 wins 4 times in the past 9 years.

Just found that amusing and thought I’d share.
- first time lawng time
  
  And in case anyone is wondering, the Yankees have done it 19 times total.
- http://danielslifka.wordpress.com Jerome S
  
  +1
- first time lawng time
  
  Aaaaaand for even more amusement, the number of times each team has reached 90+ wins:
  
  Boston: 27
  Yankees: 59
- Jon in ???JH
  
  The rivalry between the hammer and the nail, my friends.
- http://johnsterling.blogspot.com/ Xstar7
  
  And the Phillies have only won 100 games TWICE in their 130 year history (three if they do it this year).
  - http://twitter.com/#!/czm93 Craig
    
    If I’m a fan of that team, I’m worried. Theyre going thru their annual hitting slump at the worst possible time, Howard’s banged up, and there really isn’t a bullpen. Their pitchers have racked up A LOT of innings, and you have to wonder if it’s gonna catch up with them in the playoffs or not.
    - http://johnsterling.blogspot.com/ Xstar7
      
      They’re the oldest team in the MLB and they aren’t getting any younger. Howard, Rollins, and Utley are well past their primes. Ibanez is toast. Shane Victorino is having a breakout season but is on the wrong side of 30. Until they traded for Hunter Pence, Dominic Brown was the ONLY player in their starting lineup under the age of 30. Speaking of trades, they’ve pretty much tapped their farm system out acquiring guys like Halladay, Pence, and Oswalt. Of course with that rotation they should be World Series contenders for at least the next 2-3 years. But after that things get a little hazy with all those aging players with huge contracts and no one in the farm system to back them up (unless you still consider Domonic Brown a prospect). I’ve said it before, they’re the definition of a “win now” team.
      - Freddy Garcia’s 86 mph Heat
        
        they’re younger than the Yankees.
        
        /Cliff Lee’d
        
        first time lawng time
        
        Okay, I literally laughed for like 15 seconds at that comment.
  - Kramerica Industries
    
    The Phillies might never win again…
    
    That said, as long as they lose three of their first four or five playoff games*, I think we’all all be happy.
    
    *Wise-ass mathematicians would pick that statement if I had just left it as “three of their first five playoff games”.
    - Kramerica Industries
      
      *pick that statement apart
Rey22

Damon! Still hurting the Red Sox!
- TCMiller30
  
  Boom!!! 6-2 Rays
Tom O

Johnny Rocket!
- Dalelama
  
  Always has been clutch….
Freddy Garcia’s 86 mph Heat

Well it looks like the Sox will have a 1.5 game lead tomorrow sending Lackey and Wake to the mound. There’s a very real chance the Rays and Sox could be tied at this time tomorrow.
- Sarah
  
  Fingers crossed. If for no other reason than to see Boston sweat.
- http://bleedingyankeeblue.com Jesse
  
  Which would you rather see, the Red Sox flat out getting eliminated by regular season’s end, or being tied with Tampa and play a one game playoff? As a Yankee fan I want to see Boston eliminated, but as a baseball fan I’d like to see a one game playoff.
  - Freddy Garcia’s 86 mph Heat
    
    My ideal situation:
    
    Boston choking away the WC, game 163 between Braves-Cardinals.
  - LiterallyFigurative
    
    The one game playoff x 100000.
    
    Just for the sheer drama, and for the Sox to have to use Lackey or Wakefield vs. one of the Rays starters.
    
    BTW, if they had to play this one game playoff, would it be in the Trop or in Boston?
    
    Given the collapse, you wonder if going on the road might benefit the Sox, as opposed to the fans groaning from the first inning on.
    - Sarah
      
      I think a game 163 between the Sox and the Rays would be played at the Trop because the Rays have won 12/18 this season.
    - Freddy Garcia’s 86 mph Heat
      
      It would be in Boston.
      - Freddy Garcia’s 86 mph Heat
        
        what am i thinking? it would be at the Trop.
        
        Sarah
        
        Dang you, making me question myself!
      - Sarah
        
        Or, what he said, because I got it wrong.
    - Kramerica Industries
      
      Trop.
      
      Even though the Rays would likely prefer Fenway. 7-2 there vs. 5-4 at the Trop this season.
Monteroisdinero

I think Chavez is off the post season roster. Gotta have Montero, Jones, Nunez and Posada (for old time’s sake).

Montero hits righties well. All 4 HR’s off righties-3 of them off quality pitchers and 3 of them to right field.
- Freddy Garcia’s 86 mph Heat
  
  I think they have Chavez on instead of an extra lefty or Ayala. Mo, DRob, Soriano, Wade, Logan and Hughes/Noesi is perfectly fine for the pen.
  - Freddy Garcia’s 86 mph Heat
    
    Miscounted there, they could also take Dickerson or Golson, or go with 7 in the pen.
- Tom O
  
  Don’t you still have 2 more spots open there? I count 11 players, including the other regulars, you could take chavez too, and a player of your choice.
Mickey Scheister

This extra wild card spot isn’t a good idea, IMO. A one game playoff in a sport where one game really doesn’t decide anything. I understand what they’re trying to do, but what if 5-10 games separate the normal WC winner and the 2nd wild card, even worse what if they’re in the same league? They could have the series be a 3 game series and give the team with best record in each league a bye. Have the series start the day after the regular season ends, or even have a double header in a neutral stadium with a dome to ensure they get the game in, that last part may be extreme. IMO, that’s better than a one game playoff and it still penalizes the WC while rewarding the team in each league with the best record.
- Dalelama
  
  Hell no drop Posada as Chavez is much more useful….
Jesus Freak

Adrian Gonzalez is a comedian

“I think when we get into the playoffs, whoever we play better watch out because we’re going go in being the underdog,” he said after today’s loss. “We’re not playing good baseball, but at the same time we can come out tomorrow and win the two games and pretty much be a lock to be in the playoffs. All these things can turn in a matter of 12 or 13 hours, whatever the case is.”

This is what happens when you’re surrounded by a sycophantic media – you lose all sense of reality.
- http://johnsterling.blogspot.com/ Xstar7
  
  “but at the same time we can come out tomorrow and win the two games and pretty much be a lock to be in the playoffs.”
  
  Says the guy whose batting average against the Yankees this year is below the Mendoza line. And with Lackey and Wakefield on the bump for them, the Giant’s offense could probably sweep the doubleheader from the Red Sox.
- ArchStanton
  
  Well, he’s right- you really just need to get your ticket to the playoffs punched and go from there. Obviously they have some serious concerns, but anything can happen really.
- https://twitter.com/johnsc2000 JohnnyC
  
  Well, they did say he was the perfect fit for the Sox…welcome to the insanity.
- FIPster Doofus
  
  I don’t see what’s so bad about this. He’s not really wrong, is he?
  - http://bleedingyankeeblue.com Jesse
    
    He’s pretty much saying that the Sox are a lock for the playoffs, which isn’t close to being right. And he thinks they’ll win both games tomorrow which is pretty moronic on his part because they have Wakefield and Lackey going tomorrow. Granted A.J is going tomorrow, but let’s be honest. A.J>Wakefield>Lackey
    - FIPster Doofus
      
      I’d expect a member of any team to have faith in himself and his teammates, at least publicly. Gonzalez didn’t say anything offensive or arrogant. He said the Sox “can win” both games tomorrow, and he’s right. If they do, they’ll be sitting pretty as far as making the playoffs goes.
      - JMK
        
        For real. There’s absolutely nothing wrong with what he said.
  - well you know
    
    Even if the Sox win both games tomorrow, they might still need to win two out of three against the O’s in Baltimore to clinch.
    
    Far from a lock.
YankeeJosh

When baseball expands the playoffs, if three divisions are kept, I still like a three game series. It’s pretty simple, have WC #2 host game 1, then have WC #1 hosts games 2 and 3 if needed, with no off days. The series is over in three days and then the Division series can start without too much delay.

If baseball insists on a one game playoff, do away with divisions and have WC #5 at WC #4 for 1 game, and then play seed #1. If you finish 4th or 5th in the league you can’t complain about a one game playoff. If you finish with the second best record and get stuck in a one game playoff because you are in the wrong division, that is unfair.

With realignment there will be a lot more interleague play so the break-up of the divisions will be completely random based on geography, so it would make sense to just eliminate them.
DERP

Orioles win. Yankees clinch HFA.
- http://johnsterling.blogspot.com/ Xstar7
  
  Best team in the American League? Best team in the American League.
  - http://bleedingyankeeblue.com Jesse
    
    Although it doesn’t mean crap because of the stupid All Star Game rule determining Home Field in the WS, but it’d be pretty sweet if the Yankees ended up with the best record in the sport. They’re 1.5 games behind Philly for the best record.
    - Bill
      
      I think baseball should change it back to home field advantage in the World Series to the team with the better record. I mean, NO ONE played for the American League this year. They put way too much stock into an exhibition game that everyone sits out.
      - http://bleedingyankeeblue.com Jesse
        
        I think the only reason why baseball does this whole home field advantage to the winner of the All Star game BS is because the sport is dying and the sport needs more people to watch, so making an exhibition game important draws more viewers.
        
        Freddy Garcia’s 86 mph Heat
        
        And amazingly enough, the game “counts” and the managers have to try and get every single player an inning, AB, etc.
        
        Dale Mohorcic
        
        Is baseball dying?
        
        ArchStanton
        
        No, it is not dying, at all.

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