Dec
14

Yankees made bid for Darvish, high bidder could be announced tonight

By

7:49pm: Via Buster Olney, the Yankees did in fact place a bid for Darvish. No word on the size of the bid, but David Waldstein hears it was “not huge.” Jack Curry says they discussed the right-hander at a meeting today, then decided to make a bid within the last two hours before the deadline.

5:30pm: The posting period for Yu Darvish officially came to an end at 5pm ET this afternoon, so teams are no longer allowed to submit a bid. Jack Curry says at least one team did submit a bid for the right-hander, but that team is not the Red Sox according to Nick Cafardo. They didn’t submit a bid at all, which is kinda surprising. The Orioles didn’t place a bid either, according to Roch Kubatko.

Usually the Japanese team gets four business days to mull things over and then the high bid is announced — which is  exactly what happened with Hiroyuki Nakajima — but Adam Kilgore heard from an MLB official that they might announce the high bidder for Darvish as soon as tonight or tomorrow morning. That would be pretty cool.

Categories : Asides, Hot Stove League

294 Comments»

  1. Gonzo says:

    Anyone else a little excited when they read this? Super cool.

    • Overrated Packers says:

      For the first months of the offseason i have been continually saying no but now i really want him. I saw a youtube video and his pitching ruined 2 pairs of my pants.

    • Don Doran says:

      The Yanks have scouted Darvish since 2008.It is not my money,but if you are going to post,you must do it to win.That’s what the Boss would have done.Please tell Hanks little brother to grow a pair and reinvest or sell the team for billions.Hell the Marlins are investing are the Yanks luxury tax money and get 18.000 a game,if they’re lucky.

      • soxhata says:

        Cashman keeps stressing pitching as the keys to the castle,so how is he not targeting.Darvish?He’s the real {young}deal.Plus Cash has to find a taker for A J

  2. Tom Zig says:

    I highly doubt the Mets made a bid either. The Sox and the Mets were the only two teams to bid higher than the Yankees for Matsuzaka.

    Although that’s not really relevant to today.

    I want Yu, I need Yu, but there ain’t no way I’m ever gonna love Yu.

  3. Thomas Cassidy says:

    My mind still isn’t made up on whether I would like Darvish on the Yankees or not.

    • Gerald Williams says:

      The more I think about it, the more I want him. At the very least I think he’ll be as good as Danks or Gio and he has the possibility to be an absolute monster. It’s just money, the Yanks have it, and they also have a gaping # 2 hole in the pitching staff. I say let’s roll the dice. What’s the worst that can happen? Igawa was a AAA stud!

  4. Kevin D. says:

    Sign Kuroda, Nakajima, and Jones. That is all.

  5. Cris Pengiucci says:

    It’s tomorrow already in Japan. Just sayin’.

  6. Holy Ghost says:

    Would love to see him come to the US but I’m not sure if he’s a good fit for the Yankees or the AL East. I think he’d be a better fit for an NL West team like the Giants or the Dodgers…

  7. Cy Pettitte says:

    Kind of odd the Sox didn’t bid. They are so thin in terms of starting pitching depth and they’re a team that benefits from the luxury tax implications of Darvish vs. another free agent.

    Plus Bobby V. could be his friend.

    • Holy Ghost says:

      Not odd at all after Dice-K

      • Cy Pettitte says:

        they’re two completely different players. I don’t think you can let that past signing govern how you run the team now.

        • Doug says:

          of course it shouldn’t, but i can see how it might make them a bit gunshy

        • Holy Ghost says:

          True but in terms of hype, people were saying the same things about Dice-K that they are saying about Darvish today. Can’t blame the Sox if they haven’t gotten over how things played out with Dice-K yet.

          This whole posting business is pretty risky and unfair to both the players and the MLB teams. I hope they dump the posting system and move to an international draft system instead.

          • Ted Nelson says:

            “This whole posting business is pretty risky and unfair to both the players and the MLB teams. I hope they dump the posting system and move to an international draft system instead.”

            There’s also the Japanese team. MLB could certainly negotiation a new system, but I don’t think you can legally just leave out the team that has the player under contract. And I don’t know how it works in reverse exactly, but MLB teams also benefit from time to time by selling players to Japan.

            An international draft is not going to apply to a veteran, I don’t imagine. Some MLB teams reportedly expressed interest in Darvish out of HS, but he choose to stay in Japan.

    • Ted Nelson says:

      They play in a medium market and are pretty well extended at this point… so if it’s actually true doesn’t surprise me too much. They’re thin overall in SP, but with some health luck Lester, Beckett, and Buchholz could be the best 1-3 in the AL.

      • Steve (different one) says:

        Man, I know I am going to regret this, but Boston is a medium market? No way.

        • Ted Nelson says:

          My point was really that they’re in a significantly smaller market than the Yankees, and they might be capped out payroll wise after last off-season. If they don’t have insurance, their rotation is still REALLY expensive despite two starters being hurt. They’ve got to hope for Dice-K to come back healthy this season too I’d think.

          Technically I would call it a medium sized market, though. Wikipedia (not a failproof source, I know) has it as the 10th largest metro-area in the country. NY, LA, and Chicago split in half are still bigger. Making it about the 13th largest market in MLB. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/T.....ical_Areas

          Granted New England is a fairly dense area compared to the surrounding areas of some other markets, so that’s got to boost them. And the brand name built up over the years, especially recently, has got to be a major boost too.

          • JimmyT says:

            Man that is funny.
            Boston is a big market /payroll team and has been for a long time.
            They have the most expensive tickets in baseball and sell out every night…they also sell the 2nd most merchandise in baseball…they have plenty of money.

            • Bryan says:

              There’s a difference between market size and the Red Sox’s market penetration. Population wise Boston might be mid market, but they have significant MP.

              Same with the Cardinals.

        • Mister Delaware says:

          Urban / suburban Boston is medium. The 5.5 states that consider the Red Sox their home team more than make up for it.

    • BK2ATL says:

      I don’t think you’ve really heard what’s been going on with Bosox mgmt lately. Not to mention the Dice-K debacle, the spending spree over the past few years on the likes of Lackey, Gonzalez and Crawford amongst others, the Ortiz situation, and the fact that John Henry has dropped something like $170 million on Liverpool (British soccer) player signings.

      This is just an outside guess, but if we were to pull all of that together, it doesn’t seem so odd that Boston’s playing the trade market moreso than the FA market or international FA market.

      Between Boston’s previous cash outlays and Texas’ current cash obligations, the Yanks have a very good shot at Darvish, if Cashman decides to submit a serious bid for him.

    • MannyGee says:

      cherington all but said they could not afford him last week at the winter meetings

  8. Tyrone Sharpton says:

    Edwin Jackson ova this fool anyday

  9. CANO FAN #1 says:

    I’m prety nervous about this.

  10. Doug says:

    Think it’s gonna be the Rangers to replace Wilson

  11. Gonzo says:

    Imagine if Arte wins the bid?

  12. Icebird753 says:

    see i would be nervous about this, but i think waiting on a decision from harvard tomorrow is overshadowing that. gah

  13. William says:

    I think the Blue Jays got him. Everybody always talks about the Yankees, red sox, and rays in the AL east, bit nobody gives respect to the Jays. They have maybe the best GM in baseball in Alex Anthrolopus besides Andrew Friedman, plus, they have lots of money to spend. They’re a franchise on the rise. Watch out, AL east.

  14. Mike D. says:

    Of all times, this is perfect timing for Twitter to not work. Is anybody else having the same problem?

  15. Avi says:

    Dam it! I wanted Yu and dice-k teammates burning the red sox assets to the tune of $200,000,000.00

  16. James A says:

    Is the reason that it could be announced so soon is that Nippon is going to accept the highest bid regardless of team/price, or is it just something that will be leaked?

  17. MannyB ace2be says:

    This isn’t about Darvish but did anyone else see that 5 trades that should happen article? Bowden talks about why the mariners should trade us king Felix I’m not a subscriber so I can’t see it hoping someone has a link where I can read it

  18. Tyler says:

    If this isn’t allowed I apologize in advance…

    Trade 2. New York Yankees and Seattle Mariners
    Yankees acquire: RHP Felix Hernandez
    Mariners acquire: RHP Ivan Nova, C Jesus Montero, RHP Dellin Betances

    Seattle Mariners GM Jack Zduriencik says he’s not going to trade Hernandez, but if the Mariners eventually want to become legitimate contenders they might have to. A blockbuster four-player deal with the Yankees would point the Mariners in the right direction. Nova and Betances would go right in a young rotation of Michael Pineda, Danny Hultzen and Jason Vargas a formidable five that should develop into a quintet of 15-game winners. Montero would give them a long-term middle-of-the-order bat they would control for the next six years. And with the money saved on Hernandez, they could put that towards signing Prince Fielder. The Yankees on the other hand would have one of the best 1-2 punches at the top of the rotation in C.C. Sabathia and Hernandez and instantly improve their chances of getting back to the World Series.

    • Mike D. says:

      Via ESPN Insider, I see.

      • Avi says:

        I wouldnt trade montero nova and betances for Felix. I’d rather trade say Noesi, Nunez and romine for a john danks. Montero, danks, nova, betances >>> Felix Hernandez

    • Kevin D. says:

      Here is some advice I like to follow. Never read anything that Jim Bowden writes.

    • Pat D says:

      I was waiting for the open thread to bring this up.

      Let it just be known that there were Yankees fans leaving comments who said they WOULDN’T do this trade!

      I’d be doing fucking cartwheels and backflips and probably die of a heart attack, stroke and several broken bones if they could do that deal!

      • Ted Nelson says:

        Not that it’ll necessarily happen, but I think it makes some sense for both sides.

        I don’t know where people get the idea that Felix is worth like 10 good players or something ridiculous. He’s good, but he’s one dude. He can get hurt like anyone else. Part of the assumption was that he could only get better into his late 20s… but he’s plateaued the last three years (not that he can’t get better… but he hasn’t just kept rising so far).

        Fielder, Montero, Nova, and Betances could easily average, say, 2-6 fWAR as a bad-good case range. Very good case all 4 of them could be as valuable as Felix. Worst case three or four contributors to fill in your roster rather than one. Average of my arbitrary guesses is 4 fWAR. Four 4 fWAR for one 6 fWAR…

        I also don’t know that the Mariners would sign Fielder if they don’t think Montero can catch. But point is that they could use that $ somewhere else. Or just pocket it.

        • Pat D says:

          I’m not even gonna…

          • Ted Nelson says:

            Why aren’t you going to?

            Felix is a 6 fWAR/5.5 bWAR pitcher the last three years. He’s not trending up, he’s been the same for three seasons. He might get better, but he might not. Jesus, Dellin, and a $20 million free agent could all outproduce Felix individually in three years for the same combined price. When you trade an expensive star like Felix, you look for the upside where you might get much better return than you gave up, but also a nice floor where you shouldn’t be left with nothing without some really bad luck. I believe this is (roughly) a package that accomplishes that.

            I’m not saying Seattle is looking to trade him, but if they were they are not going to get one of these ridiculous 10 top 100 prospects + Cano + Gardner + the Statue of Liberty packages people throw out there.

            • JobaWockeeZ says:

              I was going to say something but this basically is most of it.

            • JobaWockeeZ says:

              I was going to say something but this basically is most of it.

            • Pat D says:

              Because first of all, I never mentioned Fielder.

              And second of all because I believe you’re putting too much importance on WAR in this case. Even if your best case scenario holds up, having 4 guys accumulate 16 WAR versus one guy with 6 WAR doesn’t mean you’re going to see that much difference in the actual W-L column.

              • Ted Nelson says:

                The article mentions Fielder. Because the opportunity cost of spending $20 mill per on Felix is spending it on someone else. If the Ms could replace Felix with a comparable FA, there’s an argument to trade him for whatever you can get and you’re now better off at the same cost. Fielder I wouldn’t call as good, but fairly close.

                Fielder alone is a 5+ fWAR player. Jesus could be 4, but he could be an 8 fWAR player. Betances could be more than 4.

                It all depends who they’re replacing. Ms are laughable offensively, so adding two middle of the order bats without the pitching going to shit could be a big swing for them. If you replace a 3 fWAR guy with a 4 fWAR guy… No it’s not a big help all else equal. A replacement guy with 4 fWAR? Big help.

        • Ted Nelson says:

          Basically, people act like Felix is some 10 WAR god… that was the projection a few years ago.

          He’s averaged just over 6 fWAR and 5.5 bWAR the past three seasons. One of the best in baseball and could certainly get better into his late 20s and 30s. Not as ridiculous as people thought he would a couple of years ago be so far, though.

          He’s also going to average $19.5 mill the next three years. While that’s a good price for him, he’s no longer got the dirt cheap thing going for him.

  19. N says:

    New York Yankees and Seattle Mariners
    Yankees acquire: RHP Felix Hernandez
    Mariners acquire: RHP Ivan Nova, C Jesus Montero, RHP Dellin Betances

  20. Jesse says:

    I say the Yankees end up getting Yu. Cashman and Co. have downplayed this situation all along waiting to strike when people least expect it.

  21. Ethan says:

    I really hope all this about the yankees trying to cut payroll has been a misinformation campaign to reduce bids on darvish and keep the signing of cespedes down.

    • Ted Nelson says:

      They could sign both of those players and reduce payroll, especially in terms of the luxury tax #.

      • Ethan says:

        True but more and more it seems that Darvish is going to get a contract where he’ll make around 8-10M per year and Cespedes will make at least 5.

        • Ted Nelson says:

          Yeah and that’s potentially in-line with reducing payroll if those guys actually produce, which is obviously not assured.

          Darvish would replace AJ’s salary come 2014. Cespedes would replace Swisher or Granderson’s (re-sign or replace the other).

          Yankees have $73.5 committed in 2014. If they’ve got Montero, their bench, their pen, and 3 starters at pre-arb or arb… they can still probably re-sign 2 of Cano, Granderson, and Martin (Martin obviously forecast as by far the cheapest… but also maybe most replaceable), sign Yu/Yo, and be under.

          So what it probably ultimately comes down to is the bench, bullpen, and developing 3 starters among Nova, Noesi, Phelps, Warren, Banuelos, Betances, Marshall, etc. I sort of think the Yankees would allow their bench or pen to limp a little to get under. If the Yu/Yo plan we’re discussing doesn’t work out (either don’t sign them or they stink)… or the prospects don’t develop enough to fill DH, maybe C, bench, pen, and 3-5 rotation spots… I don’t see them leaving a huge hole in RF or the rotation just to get under. There are other cheap options, but I could also see them abandoning the plan for the right expensive guys.

  22. Hey Now says:

    Nova, Montero and Betances is the deal Bowden proposes. He says that Nova and Bentances can slide right into the M’s rotation, and Montero gives them the middle-of-the-order bat they need.

  23. Tyler says:

    I’m just waiting for the inevitable 30+ new messages popping up on my twitter feed when it’s announced. Hopefully we find out somehow tonight.

  24. Nathan says:

    I really hope that the Yankees put in a bid and win the rights to talk to Darvish. It seems like a while since the Yankees “made a splash” and with the potential for Darvish to be very good AND the current rotation, it just makes sense. Although as much as I hope Darvish comes to the Bronx, the lack of activity since the Granderson trade leaves me a little nervous.

  25. Duzzi23 says:

    Hoping for an early Christmas gift as the Yankees are announced as the highest bidder. Especially since they have done next to nothing for two offseasons now while our competition has all gotten better.

    • sheepmeister says:

      and yet they had the best record in the AL last year.

      • Nathan says:

        Nobody could have guessed the Red Sox meltdown and they looked to have the superior team, on paper at least. Of course, as last year showed, anything can happen.

        My point is that the Red Sox likely don’t have a terrible year like last year, the Rays are always dangerous and the Jays are going to be good. It would be nice to see the Yankees upgrade, especially an area of need.

        • Mick says:

          “The Rays are always dangerous” – exactly. And they do it without a $190-210m payroll.

        • Ted Nelson says:

          Even on paper the Red Sox rotation was sketchy. At least as good on paper, but I don’t know about better. Lackey and Dice-K were expensive and had more previous success, but they were basically Garcia/Burnett level even going into last season.

  26. Leg-End says:

    I live in little England, I hope I wake up tomorrow to the news Yu and I have been waiting for.

  27. Gonzo says:

    Some fool is saying he has a source that said the Jays got him. He writes for jaysprospects occassionally. Take with a half a pound of salt.

  28. John Ya Ya says:

    All these rumors about who bid what for Darvish and who posted the highest bids are just that, rumors. Until the official announcement is made, we have no idea where he’ll go. With the way so many teams are playing close to the vest this offseason (Yankees, Angels until the Pujols signing, etc.), any team could have suddenly gotten wacky and have made a huge posting bid for Darvish.

  29. Bronx Byte says:

    If the Yankees don’t win the bid, Cashman should waste no time whatsoever to land Kuroda for the short term until Betances / Banuelos are ready to make the jump from AAA.

    • Avi says:

      I agree. I prefer Kuroda to Darvish anyway.

      • CS Yankee says:

        Kuroda didn’t want a late season trade to any team needing him…now the Dodgers don’t want him & he’ll take anything?

        Desire is the #1 thing (IMHO), rebounds of the unemployed seldom work out. Kuroda would be an option if they miss on Yu & he appears to be committed.

        Yu to the #2, followed by Nova, Hughes, & Garcia. Noesi would be first call & AJ could go back to the Jays for 50-cents on the dollar.

        I say all this but think that 30-35M$ is the most I would post for him cause your gonna need another 60-75M$ to ink him for 5-7 years.

  30. Mister Delaware says:

    I’ll take Washington.

  31. Avi says:

    It’s 9:00am Thursday morning in Japan

  32. RkyMtnYank says:

    I’m hopeful that the Yanks did not even put in a bid. Over reacting and over paying now for an unproven commodity would be foolish when there will be better options available next year. Until then I’m fine with running our own kids out there. The Yanks will still win 90+ games and make the playoffs. Will Darvish make the difference in the playoffs this year? I’ll bet not!! Especially if the offense goes to sleep again!

  33. Jesse says:

    Scratch another team off the list (as if this team was really involved), the Angels didn’t bid for Darvish

    https://twitter.com/#!/Alden_Gonzalez/status/147102563710406656

  34. Rich in NJ says:

    Anyone who says that the Yankees won’t big high due to their experience with Igawa either believes that the Yankees are incapable of logical reasoning, or is incapable of logical reasoning themselves, with Jack Curry being the latest perpetrator.

  35. Tyler says:

    Pretty obvious but…

    Buster Olney @Buster_ESPN 2m Reply Retweet Favorite · Open
    Sources: the Yankees did post an offer on Yu Darvish.

  36. Bo Knows says:

    My bet is the Nats, also how can anyone claim to have bid the most when its a blind posting process (I’ve seen so many Jays/Rangers articles claiming to have done that its insane)?

  37. CJ says:

    I’m hesitant on Yu Darvish. However, if Texas wins the bid I will believe hes going to be a stud- the Nolan Ryan factor. I just can’t see Ryan going in big on a blind bid for a power pitcher and getting it wrong.

  38. Joey H. says:

    Don’t get your hopes up, Olney just tweeted the Yankees didn’t bid.

  39. Greg says:

    Unless Olney made a big error. We DID post a bid for Yu Darvish.

  40. Tyler says:

    When I read it right away I thought the exact same thing until I ready it again the 2nd time b/c I was nervous I think I just went through it really fast haha

  41. pat says:

    I bet they low balled.

  42. bonestock94 says:

    Phew, good thing that was a mistake.

  43. Holy Ghost says:

    The posting system needs to be reformed. Here’s a rare occasion where I agree with Scott Boras:

    “Boras suggested a sliding scale whereby Japanese players can negotiate with any team and their Japanese teams would receive a percentage of the contract. For instance, if a player leaves after one year, the Japanese team would get 80 percent of the contract, 50 percent after five years and 20 percent with just one year remaining before free agency.

    “A lot of Japanese players aren’t successful here because they aren’t comfortable in their situation,” Boras said. “If they could choose where they want to play, their success rate would definitely increase.””

    http://www.nytimes.com/2011/12.....f=baseball

  44. Jamey says:

    Sorry Buster Olney, I’ll believe The Yankees placed a bid only after Cashman denies having any interest in making a bid.

  45. Joey H. says:

    How exactly does the bidding process happen again? Is it auction style or does each team just place one bid not knowing the others and it goes from there?

  46. chris says:

    Yu know it wasn’t the Yankees.

  47. RetroRob says:

    Does anyone know if this is the last year Darvish can be posted? In other words, I’m wondering when he can be an unrestricted free agent able to negotiate with all teams. I thought he was two years away, but I heard Peter Gammons say it was next year. If it is indeed only one year away, I have a feeling he will not sign and will return to Japan for one more year.

    • Bo Knows says:

      Players have to play in the league 9 years before they become unrestricted FA. Darvish has played 7, so he would have to wait 2 years

  48. Hellboy says:

    Cashman, via text, on if he offered a bid for Yu Darvish: “Wouldn’t say.” So… there’s that.

    DKnobler
    Still don’t know what the number of winning bid for Darvish was, but sources say the Fighters were very excited by how high it was

  49. Simon says:

    I think we should begin the phase of disappointment/be prepared to be disappointed, if what D. Knobler said is true “fighters were very excited on how high bids were” i dont think the Yankees would go extremely nutso on him, just my opinion.

    • Ted Nelson says:

      Who knows, but as the richest team in the sport and with their reported luxury tax considerations (this bid being exempt from that) I don’t think a high bid hurts their chances.

      • Rich in NJ says:

        If Levine was advocating spending $35m on superfluous pitcher like Soriano, if has any baseball sense at all, he also advocated spending a lot for a big talent like Yu, who would fill a need.

      • Simon says:

        Yeah who knows, but with the Yankees recent desire to be below the luxury tax threshold in 2014 and (hopefully) a Yu contract, would the Yankees be willing to do that with the possibility of signing Cole Hamels next off-season as a free-agent? Like you said, who knows.

      • Hellboy says:

        I dont think so either, they can always bid high and not get burned by the luxury tax. Unlike the rest of the teams the Yanks do have the money for a bid.

    • Grit for Brains says:

      I sorta disagree. Are the Rangers or Jays really going to offer up 50mil? I was thinking the Yankees were either out of it, or in it for real, no half ass effort necessary. I think that report could be good news for the Yanks.

  50. William says:

    Nippon ham fighters “excited” by how large the high bid was. Suddenly, I hope it’s not the yanks.

  51. sheepmeister says:

    Lets all keep in mind that if the yankees don’t win the bid, they shouldn’t have thrown 60M at Yu for posting just because its only money. 60 Million dollars is a lot of money and even for the yankees must make them think twice before being will to spend that just for negotiating rights.

  52. Guns of the Navarone says:

    I WANT YUUUUUUUUU!!!!!

    At a reasonable price…

  53. William says:

    Cubs bid f

  54. RetroRob says:

    Rumors already circulating that some team posted a $60 million fee. No way that’s the Yankees!

  55. bonestock94 says:

    Heyman says Yankees only put in a modest bid, while winning bid was massive. Bummer.

    • RetroRob says:

      I’m finding it difficult being the fan of a small-market team like the NY Yankees.

      I wonder if the rumors are correct and if it’s Toronto.

      There has also been speculation that if it’s a huge bid, it will encourage Darvish to return to Japan and then enter MLB as an unrestricted free agent when he can negotiate with all teams. Just don’t know when he can be a free agent.

  56. RetroRob says:

    If the Yankees didn’t even make the decision to place a bid until two hours ago, it’s most likely not anywhere large enough to be the winner.

  57. CJ says:

    Yes baseball daily(live?) curry said 1. Toronto 2. Texas

  58. RaeGun says:

    All I want for Christmas is Yu.

  59. Nathan says:

    Well there goes that. =/

    • RetroRob says:

      It’s kind of like buying a lottery ticket. You’re excited until the first number is drawn and you’ve already lost.

  60. william says:

    nope. Yanks bid was modest. Winning bid was sky high. See ya, Darvish.

  61. Greg says:

    Mike,

    You said that the Yankees HAD to make changes to their rotation. Now that they have not, what do they do?

  62. Jumpin' Jack Swisher says:

    At this point, I think I only want them to win the bid out of sheer competitive spirit. I also cannot wait to move on with our lives, one way or the other.

    • Greg says:

      It just seems like the Yankees are just giving up this season in order to go after next year.

      • Greg says:

        Let me rephrase, giving up this off season to go for next off season’s crop of pitchers.

        • Nathan says:

          Seems like. I guess they are hoping for the best from 2012 rotation and wait another year for the M’s to trade Felix and/or 2012′s FA crop.

          All the years of hearing about Darvish and the Yankee’s infatuation for a modest bid? Meh.

        • It'sATarp says:

          That’s assuming the good ones hit the market…which is utterly stupid since both the Giants and Phillies have the money to extend the two best pitchers on the 2012 market.

          • Need Pitching says:

            when did Zach Greinke get traded to the Giants?

            • It'sATarp says:

              Matt Cain? Grienke would be nice, but all we’ve heard last year was how the Yankees FO had questions marks on him…

              • Need Pitching says:

                While both Cain and Hamels may be extended, I don’t see it as a foregone conclusion. Both Giants and Phillies will likely be looking for offense as well and may decide to allocate their resources differently (especially Phillies, they may decide having 3 $20M+ pitchers is excessive). I think its worth waiting since its possible either could be available in free agency, and if not, other options will likely exist (Danks, Greinke, etc) Regardless of what Hamels and Cain do, the Yankees should be able to upgrade the rotation next year.

          • Guns of the Navarone says:

            Do the Phillies have the money though? They have ~$100M locked up in Howard, Lee, Halladay and Papelbon before Hamels can hit free agency. I think it’s safe to assume that Hamels would have to absolutely tank or get hurt in order to command anything less than $100M plus, given what Buehrle and Wilson just got.

        • Jumpin' Jack Swisher says:

          Yeah, rephrasing that was a good idea. I still respectfully disagree. I think Cashman is reading the market and doing what he believes is good for the short and long-term future of the team. I am in no way convinced Yu Darvish is good for either. We’ll see what happens. It’s all just guesswork until the actual winning bid is announced.

          I’m in the “sign a guy like Kuroda and see where the chips fall later” camp. Even without Kuroda, all is not lost. They’re just going to have to work to find the right rotation combination. They’ve got plenty of pieces to try out.

  63. Kevin D. says:

    Looks like the Yankees will not be getting Darvish so they should focus on signing Kuroda to a one-year deal now. Sign Jones and Nakajima to fill out the bench. That would be a pretty sound off-season.

    • Greg says:

      Do we need both Nakajima and Nunez?

      • Kevin D. says:

        Our starting SS and 3B have a combined age of 73. Having two infielders on the bench is not exactly a bad idea.

      • Jumpin' Jack Swisher says:

        They can either finally turn Nunez into that superdupersub that can play the OF, or trade him.

        Of course, they haven’t signed Nakajima and, as with Darvish, we have no frigging clue what he’ll look like in the MLB.

  64. SevenAces says:

    I wouldn’t be surprised if all this posting was for nil and Darvish decides to continue pitching for the Fighters until he is an official FA out of Japan…

    then again, I’ve been wrong so many times before.

    • Greg says:

      I don’t think so, Jeff Passan form Yahoo sports said that they would accept the posting bid no matter how large.

      The team posting that bid would be certain to make the deal because they already have a big investment in it

      • Need Pitching says:

        not necessarily, Red Sox posted huge for Dice-K, but held firm for a relatively modest contract, its possible that happens again for Yu and he opts to remain in Japan for a bigger contract with free agency

      • SevenAces says:

        The Fighters would love to take the posting, BUT if the team with the post can’t work out a deal then Darvish doesn’t have to sign.

  65. Gonzo says:

    I don’t think the Yankees won the bid, but I am still excited about finding out all the details.

    • Guns of the Navarone says:

      I would be shocked (but pleasantly surprised) if they won the bid. But I’m looking forward to following Darvish’s career and seeing him pitch regardless.

      I’m hoping he doesn’t go anywhere in the AL East. Everyone seems to think the Rangers. But I hope the Nats pick him up.

      Or…… THE MARLINS!!! #mysteryteam

  66. your mom says:

    No Yu. Oh well. Hope he flops.

  67. Jimmy McNulty says:

    Fuck. Yankees lost out. Oh well, another first round exit.

  68. Simon says:

    We don’t know yet but, they way I deal with disappointment like this is think of three names…….Manny Banuelos, Jesus Montero, Dellin Betances, and I feel somewhat relieved. :)

  69. mbonzo says:

    I’m really confused here, so far these teams are out.

    1. Orioles
    2. Red Sox
    3. Twins
    4. Angels
    5. Rays
    6. Mets
    7. Marlins

    There are rumors that these teams wouldn’t make a top bid.

    1. Rangers (Rumors that they’d rather have CJ if there ever was money)
    2. Blue Jays (Rumors that they’d rather have Beltran and are currently in talks)

    So what teams are left with money?

    1. Yankees
    2. Nationals
    3. Mariners?
    4. Cardinals?

  70. Jamey says:

    HOLY SHIT HE WENT TO THE EXPOS! Also hearing Andy Pettitte retired WOW!

  71. Nathan says:

    Another December heartbreak.

    • pat says:

      Hahah yup. Another chance at that elusive December Pennant™ down the drains. Oh well. There’s always the Grapefruit League.

      • Nathan says:

        Nah, I meant last year it was waiting for Lee to sign and he goes to Philly out of nowhere. This year it’s Darvish, after years of hearing about him and the supposed crush the Yankees had on him, and then hearing of a “modest” bid.

        Really who else fits the Yankees needs and is available?

        Danks? Costs some prospects.
        Kuroda? Solid, nowhere near Darvish talent
        Jackson? Not much better than what the Yankees have.

        Bold Yankees > Fiscally responsible/safe Yankees.

        • Need Pitching says:

          Bold Yankees = Carl Pavano, AJ Burnett, Randy Johnson, Javy Vazquez, Jeff Weaver, etc

          • Tom Zig says:

            Bold Yankees: Mark Teixeira, Alex Rodriguez, CC Sabathia, Curtis Granderson

            • Need Pitching says:

              yes, of course, just saying being bold isn’t always a good thing
              the first 3 you mention were sure thing superstars, I think they’ll continue to spend big for that type of player, but be more prudent with players who are less of a sure thing

  72. mustang says:

    It’s the Mets !!!!

    That’s what they took out a 40 million dollar from Bank of America

    Those bastards!!!!

  73. CJ says:

    I don’t understand how the MLB has to bid on a Japanese player. Those players should be paying the big boys to come play for the best baseball in the world. We shouldn’t be bidding on glorifed AAA players. Let’s roll the dice on this guy, Cashman isn’t doing anything, sign him. He’s got to be better than Burnett. Save our chips for a big time starter.

    Sabathia
    Cain
    Darvish
    Hughes
    Nova

  74. FrankO says:

    If the reports are correct and the Yankees made a half-hearted bid for Darvich, I think Cashman has made a big mistake (unless he had marching orders from Hal to do so – in which case Hal made a big mistake). Darvich is the type of player that the Yankees should take a flier on. Yes if he is a bust, it will cost them money, but it will not keep them from correcting that possible mistake because the posting will not count against the luxury tax. If Cashnan is trying to teach randy Levine a lesson because of the the Soriano signing last year by low bidding the posting – what will he say when the Angels or Rangers win the World Series next year with Darvich?

  75. Bryan says:

    Ah! not getting any work done following this.

    It’s scary but there’s a legit possibility the Cubs won this. Theo would not have moved there without the guarantee of a big budget. Darvish would represent that “splash” move that his new regime is going for – out of the box thinkers, who are looking to semi-rebuild semi-contend right now. With Pujols and Fielder gone, and Braun most likely suspended, the NL Central is up for grabs next year.

    I would not be surprised if there was a consensus value for Darvish and the question is how much the bidding teams were willing to go over that value. I also foresee a tense negotiation period.

    Darvish has good leverage – he’d still be 28 should he sign as a FA. If he stays in Japan and earns US$6.5m under his current deal – he’d make $13m plus endorsements plus the FA deal in 2014. Assuming this year’s bid + contract is $55m + $60m, he’d get a deal approaching that total with potentially more suitors (a large upfront fee being the deterrent for some teams with less cashflow), plus the opportunity to sign for a higher AAV over a shorter period.

    Let’s say he gets $85 over 5 yrs in 2014, he’d have earned $113m in 7 years, then be a FA at age 32. If he signs for the purported $10m a year/over 6 years this year – he’d get $60m in 6 years, then be a FA at age 31.

  76. CJ says:

    I’m going with Toronto. Predictions?

    • mbonzo says:

      Going with the Yankees. Just makes too much sense.

      • Cris Pengiucci says:

        I’ll keep hoping for this until I hear otherwise.

        • mbonzo says:

          I don’t believe half the things I read on trade rumors because… most of them aren’t true. This whole modest bid thing seems to have stemmed from someone who had tweeted quite a bit how the Yankees wouldn’t bid high. Either he’s got a very close source willing to divulge a lot of info (doubtful) or he’s working on assumption. My bet is the Yankees put in a bid to compete, if they’re in it, which they are, theres no reason to go modest on someone who will draw huge bids.

      • Rookie says:

        It does make too much sense, mbonzo. So if the Yankees didn’t make a very aggressive bid and they don’t know something that we don’t know — that he’s not going to sign for less than $20 million a year, that he’s going to wait and become a free agent, that he’s likely to be a bust, etc. — they will have blown it BIG time.

    • Mick says:

      Mariners.

      Yanks’ bid will = about half the winning bid total.

      • Cris Pengiucci says:

        Not sure about the Mariners winning (it does make some sense and they have deep pockets), but Yanks probably won’t be close. I’ll hold out hope anyway.

        • Mick says:

          Twitter rumors are saying the Yankees’ bid was $40M…but, grain of salt.

          • Cris Pengiucci says:

            $40M is a respectable bid. At this point, since bids are submitted, I’m surprised we don’t hear actual numbers. No reason to keep them quiet. They can’t be changed.

            • mbonzo says:

              There is reason. If the Yankees were by far the highest bidder, and they knew it, the Ham-Fighters would know who they are accepting the bid from. Remember, they don’t have to necessarily accept the highest bid either, but there is no reason to divulge any information about how big or small your bid was. It will only affect you negatively.

              • Cris Pengiucci says:

                Forgot about the Japanese team not knowing who submitted the bid. And the team name is the Fighters. (although while I was in Tokyo & Kyoto a couple of years ago the teens wore English language t-shirts that made no sense. Things like “Don’t Be Make Happy You Horizon” and I have pictures to prove it, so the Ham-Fighters makes at least as much sense as that!)

  77. Mark says:

    I’m going with Toronto too.

  78. Dan says:

    Rangers been my prediction all along

  79. OldYanksFan says:

    According to Brien@IIATMS, it was reportrd that the Yanks “did make a bid, though it was reportedly “modest””.

    Modest?

    Let us not get our hopes up.

  80. Mick says:

    Sources: Albert Pujols submitted the winning bid for Yu Darvish

  81. Granderslam says:

    All I want for Christmas, is Yu…

    Actually, not really. I’d be extremely happy if that’s the case, but I’m all about John Danks.

  82. King says:

    I’ve heard they bid $35m from someone else I heard it was $42m

  83. YankeeFan16 says:

    I bet the cubs over did it and won the Yu Darvish posting with like 60 million

  84. Granderslam says:

    If the winning bid is announced as early as tomorrow, does that mean the trade market will start to pick up soon after (Danks, Gio, Garza, etc.)?

    And, I wonder if it is the Cubbies who win the bid, does that make Garza even more expendable?

  85. Peter R says:

    Calling Rangers. They need some pitcher pretty bad and got Cliff Lee money and post-season profits burning their pockets.

    Giving the Yankees a 1/5 shot.

    Then again “modest” to the Yankees may mean $40 mil lol or could mean $2.5 mil like the last posting.

  86. Jumpin' Jack Swisher says:

    Darvish to the Brooklyn Nets. You heard it here first.

  87. Dan in Atlanta says:

    Two bids at least more than DM, according to baseball working buddy now in Korea (all speculation, but better than ours). No idea who did it, but if Yanks were “modest” they are out.

  88. Dave says:

    Some fans in the comments over at ESPN are saying the Yankees won. Rumor comes via Tim Kurjikian (sorry about the spelling). There’s so much bs over there not sure if it’s true, but that’s what they’re saying. Bid of 45 million.

    • TriGen says:

      Kurkjan hasn’t even tweeted, so that’s probaly false. If Tim knew he would tweet it so he could get credit for breaking the story, plus it sounds like Dice-K’s bid got beat so 45 wouldn’t be enough. As you said though it all seems like BS.

  89. Bavarian Yankee says:

    so far it sounds like the Yanks won’t win. I think the first 3 teams will be:
    1. Rangers
    2. Mariners
    3. Yankees

    let’s hope I’m wrong and that the 3rd team is actually 1st :D

  90. Johnny says:

    I am saying Rangers win with a bid of 60 million.

  91. Uncle Paul says:

    If the rumors are true, and the Yankees did in fact place a “modest” bid, you have to ask the question – Why bid at all? Given the nature of this type of auction, placing modest bids that realistically have no chance of winning is a complete waste of time. Nippon Ham does not know the identities of the bidding teams, only the numbers. The only way to win this type of auction is to bid the highest amount. Throwing a bid out there that is less than $40 million doesn’t make any sense – anyone with even a basic understanding of the market will realize that $40 million or less will not be enough to win this auction, making said bid fruitless. It’s the equivalent of going to eBay and bidding $20 on a car someone is auctioning off, then leaving the site and not bidding again. You can’t possibly think you are going to win, can you? And if you aren’t trying your best to win it, why even compete?

    If the Yankees really “wanted” Darvish, they should have bid accordingly. If they bid substantially north of $40 million and don’t get him, I can live with that. They made a game effort and someone else was willing to go higher. But if they didn’t go strong, it’s pretty piss poor. I would definitely be happier in that case if they just abstained.

    • Bavarian Yankee says:

      “… placing modest bids that realistically have no chance of winning is a complete waste of time.”

      why? They won the bidding for Nakajima with a “modest” bid and nobody expected the winning bid to be only $2MM. I say bid whatever you think he’s worth and then be happy if you win.

      • Cris Pengiucci says:

        Precisely. Since it’s a blind bid and you have no idea how teams will respond, it’s worth putting in a bid of $1 if you’re not interested at all. You may win and the Japanese team may accept it. Unlikely, but possible. Putting in a bid of $30M+ is worth the chance. It costs nothing and could win. They placed a value on Darvish and placed a bid accordingly. If they win, they played it right.

        • Uncle Paul says:

          No, it’s not possible. Absolutely not possible. If the Yankees think that, then they should fire their entire market research department, because they would have completely misread the market for Darvish’s services. The interest across the league has been obvious for months on this guy. Several specific teams have shown a willingness to spend lots of money on free agents and have significant need (Toronto, Texas, Washington, Baltimore, St. Louis, and others). What I am saying is, if the Yankees “want” Darvish, they must realize they need to pay for him, in terms of the posting fee. And given the forum through which they would potentially win the right to negotiate with Darvish, they would need to go very strong with their posting bid. If they are unwilling to do that, I am OK with that. Then just abstain. But don’t put forth a half-assed bid that has no chance. With this market for this player, if they thought something in the $30 million range was going to win it, they were flat out delusional.

          • Sweet Dick Willie says:

            If they put in a bid for $30 mil, maybe that is what they believe he is worth to them. Why would you ever bid more than you think something is worth?

            They have been scouting this guy for about four years, so they must have a pretty good idea of what he is worth to them.

            You, and everybody else on the planet (well, except for the Nippon Ham Fighters) have no idea what the winning bid will be. It could very well be $30 million.

            That said, what has been little discussed is that the NHF are not required to accept the highest bid; they can just keep Darvish.

            Why would they do that? Well, if they feel that the present value of revenue that Darvish will produce in the future is greater than the winning bid, then from an economic standpoint, they should reject it.

            • Uncle Paul says:

              If there was a chance Nippon Ham would feel that way, they never would have posted him in the first place. By all accounts, the posting fee for Darvish was going to be substantial. There is a zero percent chance Nippon Ham would reject the highest bid.

              And all this “worth” talk is, in my opinion, misguided. The market determines what Darvish is “worth”, not the Yankees. If the Yankees think Darvish is only “worth” a $30 million posting bid, and other teams bid far more than that, the Yankees have grossly misjudged what Darvish is “worth”.

              You cannot seriously look at the Yankees as they are currently constituted and think they don’t have a need in the rotation. Given that need, Darvish is the ideal candidate to fill that need. He’s ideal in that:

              1. He won’t cost prospects to acquire, as would John Danks, Gio Gonzalez, or other potential trade target.

              2. He will likely be less expensive than other free agent pitchers available. Even with the posting fee associated with Darvish, he is likely to cost less in total than CJ Wilson, Edwin Jackson, Cole Hamels, Matt Cain, or Zach Greinke (this year’s and next year’s free agents), when you consider the impact of the luxury tax. And Wilson is already off the board at around $80 MM. The market has been set.

              3. Winning the posting bid puts the Yankees is a position is great advantage in their negotiations with Darvish. As they are the only one with rights to negotiate, Darvish has no leverage. If he doesn’t sign, the Yankees aren’t out any money and Darvish doesn’t go to another MLB team.

              4. This point is arguable, but Darvish appears to be flat out better than the other pitchers available as free agents or through trade this year, including Danks, Wilson, and Jackson.

              So, in summary, Darvish is cheaper, in terms of both prospects and money, has no leverage in negotiations, and is possibly better than any other option on the market. And I didn’t mention the fact that he’s also younger than any of the other options, too. Could you imagine the prospect cost in a trade for someone with Darvish’s credentials. He would undoubtedly be the top prospect in any team’s minor league system right now.

              I don’t know what the Yankees bid on Darvish, or what any other team bid. I hope that the rumor mill is incorrect, and that the Yankees did in fact make a strong effort to land the right-hander. Even if they come up empty, that type of effort signals to me that the team priorities are in the right place, and they are recognizing the importance of young, cost-controlled pitching rather than continuing to dip their toe into the historically fickle free-agency market, which is more and more going to be punished by the new CBA.

              • Sweet Dick Willie says:

                If there was a chance Nippon Ham would feel that way, they never would have posted him in the first place.

                Why not? Doesn’t hurt to kick the tires.

                Darvish has a value to NHF. I have no idea what that is, but let’s say it is hypothetically $50 mil.

                In that case, NHF would theoretically reject a winning bid that was under $50 mil. Although they may accept a marginally lower bid, where do they draw the line? I would have to think in this scenario, they would reject a winning bid of $30 million.

                There is a zero percent chance Nippon Ham would reject the highest bid.

                If the winning bid is significantly lower than the value they put on Darvish, why in world would they accept it?

                The market determines what Darvish is “worth”, not the Yankees

                True, but that doesn’t mean he’s worth what the market determines to the Yankees.

                That happens all the time in the auction world, at Sotheby’s, Christie’s etc. The item is “worth” the winning bid only to the highest bidder; otherwise, people would have kept bidding.

                • Bryan says:

                  Uncle Paul, I doubt that Darvish has no leverage. I’ve read on a number of forums that he’s a FA by this time 2014, when he’ll be 28 yrs old. If going by your assertion that Darvish will get what the market thinks he is worth, a decent chunk of this year’s winning posting bid will instead go to him in 2014.

                  There’s a different between Darvish’s market price, which is what the winning bidder will post + what Darvish’s contract will be, and what his fundamental value is, which will likely be derived sabermetrically ala projected WAR based on his past numbers and scouting reports.

                  If everything in the world were accurately priced as you suggest – there wouldn’t have been a real estate bubble, and guys like Warren Buffet who’ve made a vast portion of their fortunes through arbitrage trading, wouldn’t be mega billionaires.

      • Uncle Paul says:

        You can’t possibly be equating Nakajima’s situation with Darvish’s. There is no doubt of the level of interest in Darvish among MLB teams. Nakajima’s posting wasn’t exactly front page material.

    • thenamestsam says:

      The Yankees should bid exactly what they think he’s worth. If you bid more than you think he’s worth and you win, then you’re stuck with him at a price you don’t want to pay. If you bid less than what you think he’s worth (say you think he’s worth $50M, and you bid $40) then a winning bid can be higher than your bid and still lower than what you would have been willing to pay (A winning bid of $45M for someone else when you would have happily paid 46M). A modest bid just means that they value him modestly.

      Given that no one really seems to have any idea what any of the bids were who is to say that what they considered modest isn’t a winning bid. I haven’t even heard $ amount ranges bandied about anywhere, just descriptive terms, “modest”, “sky high”, etc. that without a point of reference mean nothing.

  92. mclusky says:

    Not sure if this has been mentioned but if it’s true how utterly insane is it that the Yanks decided within two hours of the deadline to place a bid? I’d imagine they’ve spent tens if not hundreds of thousands of dollars to scout this guy, with the potential of a $100 million+ investment. I’m sure there’s some obfuscation and disinformation at play here, but man, the thought of Levine, Cash and Hal calling an 11th hour meeting and saying, “Ah what the hell, can’t hurt to throw down a bid,” makes me crazy.

    • Uncle Paul says:

      I have a hard time believing they didn’t decide to bid until the last minute. They were likely just waiting to the deadline to cast a bid, gathering as much information on the market as they could. There is no benefit to bidding early.

  93. chas131 says:

    My gut says Chicago. Theo will pull back/to/back high priced imports.

  94. Doug says:

    Reports are that the Jays submitted a “whopper” of an offer and that the Rangers bid was between $40-49M

  95. aluis says:

    Too much uncertainty around Yu Darvish from the height of the mound, the size of the ball, the better hitters, pitching every 5th day, etc. to warrant such a large investment. Good for Cash for staying the course.

    What’s more suppose Yu doesn’t live up to the hype, in that case I’d feel a lot better getting the same production from within the organization at a fraction of the cost.

  96. YankeeFan16 says:

    I have a big feeling that the cubs won the bidding but I hope and pray the Yankees won the bid with 54,00,100 :)

  97. YankeeFan16 says:

    I have a big feeling that the cubs won the bidding but I hope and pray the Yankees won the bid with 54,000,100 :)

    Sorry for the first typo.

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