Open Thread: Jorge

Report: Jorge to announce his retirement
Rivera expects to be ready for Spring Training after surgery...

Earlier today we learned that Jorge Posada will announce his retirement in the near future, a bittersweet moment for me. This wasn’t necessarily a surprise and I think we all knew his time had come, but it’s still sad anytime an all-time great calls it a career. Based on bWAR, Posada is the third greatest catcher in Yankees history behind only Yogi Berra and Bill Dickey. Thurman Munson is right behind him, but then it’s a huge gap between those four and everyone else.

I don’t necessarily agree with the list or the order, but the video above is a compilation of the nine greatest moments of Jorge Posada’s career. Game Three of the 2001 ALDS is known for Derek Jeter‘s flip play, but Posada accounted for the only run of the game with his solo homer while catching seven shutout innings from Mike Mussina and another two from Mariano Rivera. Of course I’m certain that “double” in Game Seven of the 2003 ALCS made me jump and shout more than any other Jorge hit. I’m happy Posada was able to leave the game on his own terms, because not many players get to do that. He will be missed.

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Here is your open thread for the day. I’m posting this earlier than usual because of the two NFL playoff games, the first of which starts at 4:30pm ET. That’s the Bengals at the Texans on NBC. The late game (8pm ET on NBC) is the Lions at the Saints, and I’m setting the over/under on points scored at 80.5. Other than foobaw, the Knicks, Nets, Islanders, and Devils are all playing. Don’t forget though, no MSG for you Time Warner folks! Anyway, talk about anything you like here. Go nuts.

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Report: Jorge to announce his retirement
Rivera expects to be ready for Spring Training after surgery...
  • Rainbow Connection

    They can keep MSG. I have no use for it.

  • Ed

    Why say “double” like that?

    I was there, but don’t remember the specifics of the play too well. The stadium was kind of insane when it happened…

    • http://www.riveraveblues.com Mike Axisa

      Watch the video. It was a bloop single and he went to second on the throw home.

      • Andrew518

        To this day I don’t know how that wasn’t caught, really one of the greatest turn of events ever….well at least untill later on in the game.

        • Owen Two

          The infield was drawn in because there was one out with Bernie on 3rd and Matsui on second.

      • Owen Two

        Did he break his bat on the hit? I always thought that, but I’m not sure why.

      • Owen Two

        Buck (and Sterling, as I recall) said Posada went to second because nobody was covering the base.

        Poor quality clip here (Poor quality = grainy video plus Buck and McCarver on audio).

        • OldYanksFan

          Great, great, greatgreatgreat clip!

  • Brooklyn Ed

    This was Posada’s 2011 moment: http://28.media.tumblr.com/tum.....o1_500.gif

  • Pat D

    All things must pass,
    all things must pass away.

  • Joe

    What about Elston Howard?

    • Peter Piroso

      I’ve been following the Yankees since 1958.

      Elston was an outstanding defensive catcher who handled pitchers as well as anyone and was as a wonderful (fearsome to opponents) clutch hitter.

      Howard had Yogi in front of him in the 50’s so Elston’s time behind the plate was limited.

      Elston did occasionally play left field but his fielding abilities were adequate at best.

      • Kosmo

        actually if you check you´ll find that Berra and Howard in their respective careers played exactly 265 games each in the OF mostly thru the Stengel years !

    • toad

      Indeed. The guy won an MVP, after all.

  • CMP

    Funny how everyone is fondly reminiscing about Posada now that he’s retiring. During most of last season, the vast majority of posts about Posada attacked him like he was Jack the Ripper.

    • RetroRob

      The vast majority of notes from a very small minority. They did not under any circumstances represent the view of Yankee fans.

      • I am not the droids you’re looking for…

        Huh? Jorge acted like an egomaniacal lunatic and threw a decidedly unsportsmanlike hissy fit while quitting on his team this last season. And oh, by the way, he was very much sucking at that time.

        I can still love him as a player, very much appreciate his career, and carry several extremely happy memories of him and his contributions fondly in my heart, all while also calling him out for the unarguably sad, embarrassing way he handled himself during those dark times this season. I’m thrilled for him that he was able to come right back and put it together (a little bit) including late/post season heroics. But let’s not let nostalgia erase reality here. “Real fans” had legitimate reason to be on him for the way he behaved this year.

    • Andrew518

      Patrick Ewing’d

    • Mister Delaware

      If Mattingly came back next year and got 400 PAs, there would be a lot of ripping Mattingly too. Most players play too long, its silly to pretend otherwise.

  • RetroRob

    Happy to say I’ve seen two of the top four Yankees catchers of all time in Munson and Posada. bWAR gives Posada a very slight edge over Munson, but I’d take Munson over Posada because he was substantially better behind the plate, from calling games, mobility and throwing out runners.

    There was a seventeen-year gap between Munson and Posada. I hope the next great Yankee catcher shows up before seventeen years. Montero has a great bat; I’m just not sure it’s going to stick behind the plate long term, but I hope I’m wrong on that front.

    Who would have guessed Mike Stanley had the highest career OPS for a Yankee catcher? He certainly wouldn’t have been my first guess. Of course, he couldn’t catch. Posada toward the end of his career was still better than Stanley at his peak…but he could swing a bat!

  • Rich in NJ

    One of the most underappreciated Yankees of all-time.

    I hope his career taught the Yankees the value of an offensive catcher.

    • RetroRob

      The Yankees as an organization have always valued offensive catchers. It’s in the club’s DNA…and for good reason.

      • Rich in NJ

        I’m skeptical about whether or not the current manager subscribes to that view.

        • RetroRob

          Yeah, I won’t disagree with that.

          • Andrew518

            I’m skeptical of the current manager.

            • Steve S.

              Yeah, the man obviously knows nothing about catching.

  • Virgil Earp

    We’ll never replace a player like Jorgie. He was the greatest catcher of his era and a sure fire hall of famer. Last season everyone wrote him off and then he came up clutch when it mattered the most just like he always does. I hope Jorgie is given any position he wants within the Yankee organization. He deserves it for everything he’s given us. His number should be retired next season.

    • Rainbow Connection

      He’s already been replaced.

      • Pat D

        Zing!

    • Monteroisdinero

      Montero will replace him and will fill the RF seats with opposite field homers. He will also fill the left and left center seats and drive the ball in the gaps for doubles.

      He will be Posada’s equal as a defender.

      Thank you Sado but you will not be missed for long.

      I saw Munson and would take him over Jorge but one guy didn’t get to finish his catching career and the other guy started 4-5 years later than other great catchers.

    • Steve S.

      I understand that many fans loved Jorge, but I think I can say with a sense of confidence that Jorge will not be given “any position he wants in the organization”. He was never fundamentally sound as a Catcher, he was a powder keg in terms of controlling his emotions on and off the field, and he quit on the team in his final season. The Yankee brass won’t forget all the big years he had with the bat, but they also won’t forget the rest of his track record. He doesn’t strike me as the type who would make a good coach or manager. He had an innate ability to hit even the best fastball. The rest of his skills were mostly below MLB grade.

      • Steve (different one)

        Except for baserunning, of course.

      • Andrew518

        Honestly I think “quitting on his team last season” is a bit of an overstatement. He pulled himself out of one game, yes the reasoning was selfish, but I don’t think that’s enough to tarnish his record. Over 17 seasons to claim that he quit on his teammates based on one incident is kind of a bit much. Manny quit on his team. Mondesi quit on the Yankees, A Rod dindn’t even stick around for the whole all star game at his own stadium, Jorge had a bad day. I’m not sure any of us think less of Mattingly now based on his spat with the boss over his hair.

        Who hasn’t had a day at work that they wish they could take back? A brief overreaction or something similar?

        I’m not trying to make excuses for him, but I think he quit for one game is far more acurate, I didn’t see any evidence that his heart wasn’t there for the rest of the games. He didn’t mope about. He hustled down the lines. He preformed far better than anyone else in the playoffs.

        As for his disposition, there are plenty of succesful hot head managers around, Ozzie, Sweet Lou, Billy Martin the list can go on throgh history.

    • toad

      Charles DeGaulle:

      “The graveyards are full of indispensable men.”

      • Mister Delaware

        Including Charles de Gaulle. Wow!

    • Chen Meng Wang

      As a lifelong die hard Yankee fan, and huge Jorge supporter, Ivan Rodriguez says Hi. Even with out the steriods, he was still a top catcher offensively and defensively.

  • Plank

    http://deadspin.com/the-boss-files/

    Are there any other sports sites that are actual journalists and not sports writers? Deadspin is awesome. I just wish it didn’t have all the other crap associated with it.

    • Steve S.

      I still can’t tell if Crocker was rying to tackle Foster, or if he was blocking for himt

  • Kevin

    Only one thing I hate about the 2003 ALCS. What happened after that.

    • Andrew518

      All time anti climax. Game 7 2003 top five moments of my life…if they win World Series I think it comes in as #1 (I suppose some might see this could be a poor reflection of my life but with out getting married having kids etc.) (Even if I do some day have kids get married this still might have been #1 still boggles the mind)

      • Kevin

        I feel the same way about games 4 and 5 of 01… in the end..it was all for naught.

        • Mister Delaware

          Absolutely. I’d pay several hundred dollars to go back and capture those ~28 hours again. Tino, Jeter, Brosius, O’Neill chant, the whole 9-11 backdrop … I can’t imagine we’ll ever get back-to-back games like that again.

          • I am not the droids you’re looking for…

            Yup to me 2001 was waaaaaaaaaaay harder to accept than 2003, 2004, or frankly any other non-WS season of my lifetime.

            I still sort of can’t believe that karma did not deliver the WS to NY in 2001. Seriously.

  • Jesse

    Where does Posada rank in terms of greatest Yankee catchers?
    Greatest? Second Greatest? Third Greatest?

    I’m torn between whether Dickey was better or Jorge or if Jorge is better than Dickey.

    • Charlie

      Jorge is no. 3 or 4. He is right there with Howard and Munson behind Berra and dickey.

    • toad

      Berra?

      • Jesse

        It was implied that Berra is number 1.

        • toad

          Good.

          But then why suggest that Posada may have been the greatest Yankee catcher?

    • Genghis

      I’d say offensively they were fairly close. But Dickey was reputed to be a good defensive catcher. Note also that he regularly did well in the MVP voting– a sign of how he was regarded relative to other players.

  • Monteroisdinero

    Fun and useless fact: Posada is Puerto Rican but his parents are from Cuba and the Dominican Repub.

    • Andrew518

      Useless facts are the most fun kind….

  • Monteroisdinero

    The pine tar helmet award goes to Jorge. A classic.

  • Steve S.

    Damn, in field goal range and you cough up a turnover.

  • Charlie

    Jorge was clutch an a straight leader in the old fashion way. No 20 was an all time great!

  • Shamus

    The man pissed on his hands to toughen the skin.

    A throwback.

    He ate, slept, breathed the game.

    Nuff said.

  • Nathan

    For me it will be the hit off Pedro that is the defining Posada moment followed by “The Flip” with Jeter. Sadly, the last couple years it’ll be the clashes with pitchers (Randy Johnson and AJ, mostly) and the drama.

    Still, he was an intergral part of the dynasty years and even in his later years, was better than most catchers.

    I’ll miss you Jorge and I’ll be cheering for you on Old Timer’s Day. Thanks for everything!

  • Karen

    Great catcher, Great Yankee, Great humanitarian! You’re my all time favorite. Thanks for the many years you gave us. Thanks for not going to another team.

  • Karen

    Great catcher, Great Yankee, Great humanitarian! You’re my all time favorite. Thanks for the many years you gave us. Thanks for not going to another team.
    All the best to you in whatever you choose to do.

  • LeftyCoach

    I rarely post on here, but I read it daily. I’m a Yankee fan from Houston, Texas. I’m not a lifetime fan of the Yankees like most on here, but I’m a serious baseball junkie. Back in 2001, I became a big Yankee fan after 9/11 and it’s something my son and I share to this day. We travel to Arlington, Texas annually to catch the Rangers/Yankees series. And we’re looking forward to seeing them every year in Houston when the Astros join the A.L West starting in 2013. My favorite Posada story is when my son and I took our first (of two) trips to NYC to see a 3-game Yankees series and they were playing the Texas Rangers in May of 2006. We were in heaven sitting in Yankee Stadium that night, but we soon got discouraged when the Rangers got out to a nine-run lead. This was our first game ever in Yankee Stadium and it sucked. We sat and watched that amazing comeback. My son’s favorite player is Derek Jeter and I think he homered and went 4-4. When Posoda hit that walk-off homer, we both started laughing. Outside the stadium on our way back to the subway, all we heard was “Red Sox suck! Red Sox suck!” It was hilarious. Anyhow, we got back to Manhattan and probably just walked around town for an hour or so and we had a late night dinner around 1:00 am at a little diner. To this day, it’s probably the most fun night we’ve ever had at a ballgame together. Jorge Posada played a huge part of all that fun we had. He was a great player and his memories will live on. I relived that special night a few times, thanks to that game being archived on MLB.TV

    • RetroRob

      Thanks for your story. Always good to hear different stories about how people became fans.

      I remember that game. It was quite the come back!

    • Steve (different one)

      That was the same game that Teixeira tried to barrel over Posada and knock the ball out. IIRC, Posada held on and Tex was out. When Tex joined the Yankees there was a little whispering that there could be bad blood, but Teixeira or Posada, don’t remember which way it went, gave the other one an autographed picture of that play and it was all good. Great game.

    • I am not the droids you’re looking for…

      Thanks for sharing that. Awesome stuff.

      If you’ve not, check out the video above – that walk off he hit in that 9 run comeback is featured prominently.

      And thanks for becoming a fan – and perhaps an honorary New Yorker! – after 9/11. I welcome all who entered the fray at that time.

  • Charles

    I still remember after game 5 of the ALDS this year the look on Posada’s face as the rest of the club walked into the dugout, good luck in retirement Jorge, you were a great Yankee!

    Sidenote, any chance of Jorge as a manager? Seems like the kind of person that would jump at the chance.