Feb
11
Rosenthal: Pirates one of four teams in on Burnett
ByVia Ken Rosenthal, the Pirates are just one of four teams with interest in trading for A.J. Burnett. One of those four teams is on his no-trade list, and the Yankees feel Pittsburgh makes the “most sense” as a trade partner. It might have something to do with them being in the NL, or a non-contender, or both. Yesterday we heard that the Pirates are willing to take on $10M of the $33M left on his deal, but the Yankees are holding out for a 50-50 split.
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na na na na. na na na na. heeey goodbye! *keeps fingers crossed*
Burnett will end up winning 15-18 games , 170-200k’s, an ERA between 3 and 3.5 and he will be the hottest trade commodity at the trading deadline.
3 mystery teams? When did Scott Boras become the Yankees GM?
Wow if Cash gets a 50/50 split then Pittsburgh is an even sadder franchise than I thought.
put it this way.. we were paying 100% of burnett’s contract.
haha yea. Wow Pittsburgh is such a sad franchise for getting a pitcher for the half the price that the Yankees are going to pay. I guess that makes the Yankees 2x as sad.
Right except you’re both forgetting one thing: Pittsburgh will know exactly how awful – unabashedly, unreservedly, unqualifiably AWFUL – AJ has been the last two – Two. ENTIRE. Seasons, whereas the Yanks signed him after some good years and a not unreasonable expectation of more.
AJ 3 years ago at 5/82.5 isn’t as bad a move as AJ now at $16.5/2 would be.
I’m not saying the deal 3 years ago was a “good one.”. And I don’t just say that bc of how it turned out. It was a year too long even then, and a few mil too high per year. But that was the going rate, and assuming he’d be a 3+ WAR player was not unreasonable at the time. But to think he’ll be a 1.7+ WAR player now is, I believe preposterously foolish.
He put up 1.5 WAR in 2011, but 1.7 in the easier league, bigger park is preposterously foolish?
Looking good that we can trade him if we really want to. The NL is really where AJ needs to be getting into his mid to late 30′s.
Christmas in February!
Holy crap. That’s amazing.
Guesses on 4?
Pitt, Baltimore, Miami, Cubs?
Just read one if the 10 west coast no trade teams. Oakland or Arizona?
San Diego
It’s a Burnett for Zito swap.
Just kidding. I want to cry just thinking about it.
At least then the Yanks can plan on using Zito as a LOOGY, only to have him get injured (because all NYY LOOGYs get injured), and then he won’t even waste a 40 man roster spot. Why couldn’t AJ stay healthy when he was young and effective?
I would prevent AJ from leaving NY if the trade was for Zito.
AJ moving to the NL and that nice large park out in San Fran would probably be no worse than league average. He can still miss bats. Zito would make Yankee fans miss the days of AJ.
I saw on MLBTR the other day that Pittsburgh, Baltimore, Chicago White Sox, and A’s are fits for him.
i hope they trade him to the O’s for Ryan flaherty so he can replace chavez
o the A’s i would gladly take michael taylor for him
dont know why the wsox would be ideal for him
Hm, I wonder if the Yankees expect to get something in return then. Doesn’t have to be a great prospect or anything, but maybe feel the Pirates might have a better player to offer?
Likely depends on the dollars exchanged. If the yanks can’t get a 50/50 split, would be a better prospect involved.
Is this really going to happen? Like really?!
Definitely going to happen. Pirates really have no choice but to make this trade. No free agents are going to sign there. They had a decent season last year and they should build on that. They haven’t had a half decent pitchers in eon’s, and Burnett, whille crappy results for the last two years with the Yanks, would be one of the best pitchers the Pirates have had in years. As for the money, it should be a 50/50 split at a minimum. AJ for $8mm is a great deal when you start looking at the comparisons.
I’m getting the Royals are one of the other teams too.
And lastly, as a Yankee fan to other Yankee fans, I really don’t appreciate the comments on here trash talking AJ. I’ve met him and he’s actually a really cool guy. He’s not what you expect and despite his issues on the mound, he has had his strokes of genius. People make it sound like this is Carl Pavano, Kevin Brown, Barry Zito, Lackey and a whole list of others that really are assholes and buttheads who actually and sometimes publicly milked their contracts. These jerks could never hold themselves accountable when it mattered most. AJ did and I respect that.
If you want to trash someone. John Lackey and Carl Pavano are the guys….They sir’s, are useless pieces of shit.
I agree that AJ has always given a full effort. He has simply lost a few ticks on his fastball to father time. A trip to the NL will be what the doctor ordered for AJ.
You can tell from his post game interviews that AJ is a great guy.
I can tell from his departures from the mound when he tells Girardi to go “f” himself that he is not.
You know that never actually happened, right?
what did happen CP? Maybe he told the manager how great of a skipper he was?
The incident that I believe you’re referring to was when he was removed from the game and yelled something like ‘That’s bullshit’ as he was leaving the mound. He was upset about the couple of bullshit calls that ump made in the last couple of at bats before he was pulled. His anger was at least somewhat justified because the entire game thread here erupted with cries of how the calls were bullshit.
In fact, in every statement he’s made, he talks about how good a manager Girardi is and how they have a good relationship. Even looking back to 2009, when Girardi ackowledged there was friction between AJ and Posada, AJ went out of his way to be positive about Posada and not throw him under the bus.
Not quite true. As he was exiting the mound, he looked over his left shoulder, where Girardi was–and not to the right–whee the umpire was, and said –that’s f’in bullshit. It was clearly directed at Girardi for removing him and not at the home plate umpire. Every newspaper reported it. Every one. On a separate occasion–after he was pulled from the game–he left the bench and ripped off his uniform top– prior to the end of the inning–against accepted policy. Girardi followed him moments later. Likely to check on the supply of whipped cream in the frig in your explanation of revisionist history.
Gee Gosh real sorry that people’s comments upset you. I’m sure everyone will try harder to not upset you in the future. Again speaking for all Yankee fans….we are SOOOOOOO SORRY that we upset you!
You missed the point homey..I’ve read many comments on here that were very nasty about AJ and I just think its been a little too much. I think you took my comment more personally than the actual point that was being made.
Well there I have to disagree with you. Carl Pavano and John Lackey are probably just as much nice guys as AJ is. Pavano went under the knife and endured rehab for many years to try and get back to pitch, Yankee fans were just disappointed with his results and apparent frailness.
I am pretty sure most people who are “trash talking” AJ are not attacking his character. There is little doubt he is trying his hardest. Unfortunately he has not been able to put it together and although durable, is being paid a lot of money to pitch to some of the worst ERA in the league for a starter.
As for the trade, I am happy for AJ. Hopefully it goes down and he moves somewhere where he can succeed. I wouldn’t be surprised if AJ put up a really solid season in Pit and ends up being a steal for $8 mil with people blaming Cash for trading him by the end of the season.
But I am getting ahead of myself now….he still a Yankee for now.
I disagree. Lackey is a dickhead.
Pavano could have made a stronger attempt at his rehab and I definitely think he could have pitched for the team, even for a limited period. He completely mailed it in and I remember him making snarky comments during that period. Something about him and his character at that point in his career was completely wrong. Lackey is just a dick. His personal life is really none of our business, but read the story about his wife. The guys is just a box of excuses after giving up 8 runs in 4 innings.
Nobody here is trash talking AJ because he’s an asshole. They’re trash talking because he’s sucked the last two years.
Even in his 30s and belonging in the NL, I really don’t think A.J. is as bad as people make him to be. More often than not, he has that one-inning implosion that hurts his stats. No matter how much the Yankees have to eat of his salary, they better get a great prospect, at a minimum, in return. At this point I’d focus on an outfielder and/or DH first and then a back of the rotation starter (as if we don’t got enough already).
The Yankees are not going to get a “great prospect”, it’s simply not realistic at all. They will eat enough salary so that the remaining amount represents AJ’s current market value, and they will get a middling prospect. Cash is good, but he’s not a hypnotist.
I’m not sure about that. I think AJ realistically projects as a #3 in the NL. A lot of failed Yankee pitchers have gone to other teams and done well, so it’s not crazy to think AJ may do the same. I’m not sure what a pitcher like would command as salary, but let’s say $5M/year. So if the Pirates took on $10M, they should also be trading whatever level of prospect you would give up for a #3. In an average organization, I would think the 7th-10th best prospect would be reasonable.
Kind of how I am figuring it, but that also depends on having a decent offense behind him also.
AJ for $8mm is a great deal when you start looking at the comparisons.
So you’re saying that if AJ were a FA, he would get 2/$16?
I don’t even think Boras could pull that off.
Absolutely. I think if AJ were a free agent right now he could have obtained a 2 year deal for $16mm. I think just based in the fact that he is able to absorb a tremendous amount of innings, the fact that he has been healthy and most knowledgeable people in baseball would realize that he has experienced an inordinate amount of bad luck. The guy is actually a decent pitcher. Vasquez got what $8mm or $10mm from the Marlins after a horrific season with the Yankees. Chen received a 2 year deal for $10mm and he is really not a great pitcher, who has never been a great pitcher. If he were a free agent, I definitely feel the O’s would have been in on him too. CJ Wilson was a reliever two years ago and received $77mm. You have to keep in mind also that teams like the Reds and Nat’s (especially the Nat’s) gave up an arm and leg to trade for 2 young, very talented pitchers. It’s seems many in baseball feel that Gonzalez could regress sharply so, who’s not to say the Nationals would have signed AJ for two years instead of giving up a heist of prospects? It’s obviously not the same in terms of age, etc, but with the crop of free agents next season and the season after, the Nat’s could have locked up AJ for 2 years at $16mm relatively cheaply kept their heist of prospects and gone all in on Hamels, Cain, etc?
No way would AJ have gotten 2/16.5 in the open market after the last two seasons he had. NFW. Sorry man.
Word. Nice post. I think it was Larry who broke it down recently in an article here: When the fastball loses a few ticks, and the difference between the fastball and the changeup shrinks, it’s no wonder he’s gotten into more trouble lately.
Id expect Yanks to get something of value if they are paying $22 million
Don’t understand why any team trades for Burnett on essentially a 2 year/$16.5 million contract, when they can get Oswalt instead for the same, and give up nothing.
Because Oswalt only wants to play close to home and for a contender. The Pirates don’t have the option of signing Oswalt.
Let me replace Oswalt, then, with the option of NOT paying AJ Burnett $8.25 million a year.
I think it’s obvious what the choice is…
I agree that $8M/year is pushing the upper bound of what he is worth, but I think at $6M/year AJ is a very solid deal for an NL team. AJ is basically pitching in the worst stadium/division possible. $6M for 200 innings of average-ish innings is not bad at all. That said, if the Yankees shed $12M or more, they aren’t getting anything in return.
That would make him the 2nd highest player on that roster, by a large margin.
How could they justify that kind of expenditure for AJ Burnett who, at best, would go into the season as their #3 starter?
Meant to write “2nd highest paid player”, but maybe he would be the second “highest” player too.
McCutchen looks like he takes hits as much as he gets hits.
Because they have money to spend and they can’t get other free agents to sign with them. This is one of the only ways for them to improve their club.
I don’t think the Yankees are going to get any team to eat half the contract, but they’re probably shooting for something more than $5 million a year relief. Hey, every million counts! Maybe $12 million total.
AJ at $6 million per is worth it. AJ’s FIP the last couple years is in the upper 4.00s. (His xFIP was even better at 3.8 last season). He still has a good K/9 rate. Move him to the NL and he can put up an ERA somewhere in the 4.20 range, while delivering 190 innings. No one on the Pirates can deliver that many innings as a starter. Sure, Oswalt is better when healthy, but he’s not an option, and even he only pitched 135+ innings last year. A starter who can deliver innings, even below average innings, has value.
Yes, let’s go with what the expert says!
I just hope Oswalt doesn’t change his mind or realize that Pittsburgh has an airport with non-stop flights to basically anywhere in the country in less than 4 hours.
Shhhhhhh!
You make it sound like the Pirates can just write a check. Not the case.
I really want to post this same stuff on MLBTR, but their stupid new comment policy got me booted. Funny, I had to vehemently defend myself all the times I said Burnett would be traded and look where we are.
Yo Mike Axisa, tell your boys over at MLBTR, that they are really screwing themselves over with their new commenting policies. Actually, I may write you separate email shortly about this.
Sincerely,
Century
Its the same policy they’ve always had.
Yeah, I know. I had been commenting for years with little issue. Up until about 2 months ago, it’s apparent that one of the moderators had a vendetta against me, because 1 out every 2 comments was immediately deleted and then I was subsquently booted, fast just a few weeks ago. No email. No contact. No explanation. MLBTR continues to post their comment policy and 90% of the people continue to not follow it and they are still there. It does seem like MLBTR has removed a few of the more deeper thinkers and another thing MLBTR completely failed at was monitoring the 10 year old style comments. Someone like myself or even you may write something intelligent only to be attacked by a 12 year old and then the ensuing fight and we lose. For example, like when I said countless times earlier this offseason that AJ would be a trade candidate, I proved sound reasons why, got blasted by a bunch of people, had to defend my reasons and I was the one to be deleted. I’m a little pissed about it, and in my eyes, MLBTR takes a huge credibility hit since removing a few very good commenters. I did enjoy commenting with a few on there in my down time.
Why are you fighting with a 12-year old?
/Just asking
Definitely a mistake in hindsight. However considering Red Sox fans dominate the site and most act like 12 year olds, it was a lost battle regardless. Just like the media, MLBTR seems to have taken a slight Red Sox slant. I’ve really always wondered how they do it and become so infectious with all media they touch? ESPN, MLB, anything concerning voting, the freaking Mitchell report and let’s not talk about Ortiz or Manny, but let’s publicly fleece AROD. It’s little things like this that do piss me off about the internet.
You can’t say I wrong about this?
It sounds as if you were booted not for what you were saying, but how you were saying it.
It’s easy to get Red Sox fans crazy. Just drop one comment in and then step back and watch the chaos. No need to get yourself thrown out!
Probably. There was a time when you could just cut the BS and get to the point. Perhaps I watched too much Archie Bunker as a kid.
I’d previously had Disqus third-party elements blocked in my browser so I hadn’t seen any comments at MLBTR for ages. After reading through for a few weeks, I’m completely disappointed at how uninformed, delusional, and/or belligerent so many commenters are over there. Sawx, Twins, Mets, Phillies, you name it–there are some bitter bitter fans over there.
To paraphrase Joltin’ Joe, I’d like to thank the good Lord for making me a Yankee fan.
New England (specifically MA) has an excellent educational system and quite a few really talented people grow up there, or grow into maturity there. Many end up leaving when they realize there are better opportunities elsewhere (ref: Hizzoner Da Mayuh). A side-effect is that vestigial Red Sox fan tendrils reach out into places they might not get otherwise.
Like the famous George Carlin once said about Boys names “Nicky, Bobby, and Frankie would kick the shit out of Todd, Troy and Tucker.” “Hi I’m Tucker” Tucker has Boston written all over it.
Hey, they’re both at the same skill level!
“The Yankees say they will pick up all the salary and kick in $10M if the Pirates trade them Cole.”
Sentences I Wish Were True for $500, Alex.
The amount of noise makes me skeptical. Not typical Cashman.
It might not be cash doing this one…with all his personal drama going on, I wouldn’t be surprised if he just laid out the parameters for a deal and afterman was pulling the strings
I’d be very surprised if Afterman was handling it. Everything I’ve heard about her is that she handles contracts and legal issues.
Agreed and Cashman and Huntington do work well together. Let’s keep in mind that Cashman just re-signed. His personal issues really aren’t anything new. If the team felt this would be an impediment to performing his job, they wouldn’t have so quickly offered him a new contract. Again, this is personal, but Cashman has been split up for over a year now, so it’s really no surprise. Frankly, Cashman is the best at these types of negotiations and only he is handling it.
Same here. While none of us know what’s really going on in Cashman’s life, or how he’s reacting to it, the odds are low the stalker/divorce is having any impact. Most men retreat and find comfort in their jobs when their personal lives become more chaotic. He’s been separated from his wife for two years, living apart. He’s probably more embarassed then anything that he hooked up with a lunatic that made it into the media since he’s usually the one counseling players to keep their private affairs private.
Could be making it more public to try and pressure Pit into paying/giving more. Mystery teams always do that and adding that one is on no trade list adds some realism lol.
me thinks in addition to Pittsburgh,the other teams involved are Colorado, San Diego and KC.
OMG Colorado? That might be the one place in the NL he should not go. He’s a fly-ball pitcher as is, and add in the negative impact the elevation will have on his curve ball and I see bad things.
“he’s a flyball pitcher”
You sure about that?
Burnett had a 49.2% GB rate last year (league average in the AL was 43.8%). And over the last 3 years he has a 45.6% GB rate (better than league average)
For some reason he continues to be perceived as a flyball pitcher, but the stats don’t support it. Over the last 3 years he has a GB/FB ration similar to pitchers like Cole Hammels, Mark Buehrle and better than Cliff Lee.
I think the problem is his % of FBs that turn into HRs. Too lazy too look it up but my eyes say the ratio is too high
How about he’s scary when he gives up fly balls, with 17% leaving the park.
I’ll stand by my statement. Compared to other destinations, Colorado would be bad for him. Very bad.
Trade that piece of garbage for a bag of peanuts
After Cashman gets Pittsburg to pay $12m and send us a player, when asked, Cashman will say:
“Well, we sent them a pretty good pitcher for peanuts. Frankly, we just didn’t have room for AJ on our roster, but I’ll tell you this: My assholes feels pretty sore.”
Cashman is a FUCKING NINJA!
AJ will be traded unless someone screws this deal up on the Yankee side. The other day the thinking about AJ was 2 years @ 10/12 million. So for about 5 to 6 million a year is his worth. So if the Yankees can get 10/12 million from Pittsburgh and a possible prospect or DH type then we are good to go.
As far as AJ, I believe he’s a stand up guy who would answer all questions after his blow out games over the past two years. He threw his innings without injury. Not missing any turns that I can recall.
I hope he goes to Pittsburgh and pitches lights out.
Me too. I want to see him in Pittsburgh and freaking tear up the NL. The dude has it in him and I want him to prove everyone wrong. It’s be really cool if he could lead that team in the next two years to it’s first winning season in forever.
Yeah AJ is a great guy especialy when he tells his manager to f off or gives him the finger. He is the worst Yankee starter since Ed Whitson and nobdy deserves two years in Pittsburgh more then AJ! I would trade him and 30 milion of the 33 million owed for a Steeler terrible towel and a We are family poster, Good riddence Mr 5 plus ERA!
For all my dislike of AJ for his failures, it does seem true that it isn’t like he isn’t trying, or doesn’t care. I don’t think he’s given less than 100% effort while he’s been with us. It’s just … whatever, a combination of lower velocity, not having a third pitch, skills off, bad luck…
But not from lack of trying. So I feel for the guy, and wish him luck. And check the breaking sports news every hour I’m on the computer hoping to see a trade announced.
I really do believe Dave Eiland and Burnett didn’t get along either. I do find the mysterious black incident and subsequent Eiland firing to be a bit convenient. Perhaps it was personal family issues with Eiland, but I was never sold on that. We’ll never know and this is just a random assumption, but fresh out of Toronto when he joined the Yanks in 09, he was terrific. Something happened mid 2010 for which we’ll never know and that was it. Plus, yes on the diamond he also suffered an unusual amount of bad luck. F**k it, it happens. Just be glad that this is not John Lackey. If this trade goes down, in my eyes, the only loss to the Yankee’s is a few dollars. AJ has a WS ring. Everyone wins. Just think not only do the Sox need to still pay Lackey, they’ve got to deal with him for another (total of 4 years) year now. That’s league minimum thing they added for year 6 backfired as well.
How did it backfire?
Because its another year that they need to see his mug and have him on the roster. Plus from the perspective of trying to trade him when he returns, the Sox will have to convince another team, regardless of total dollars owed, that will have to commit to him 3 years and this if after this season of not pitching. He could be released in theory in year 6, but then why even request the 6th year at league minimum? While he could have been injured at any point while under contract, I think this is where the Sox messed up the most and it was more precautionary if he were to be injured in year 4 or 5, hence kinda giving them a free year, which then would have made sense. (they used the same kind of sureness and wisdom offering Ortiz arb this offseason, likely only for the draft pick and being sure he’d sign elsewhere since they wouldn’t offer a multi-year deal.) That turned out really well for them.
Instead he gets injured in year 2, out year 3, smack in the middle of the contract and then we have all the off the field intangibles that make him so special. The entire contract completely misfired. The Sox should have hedged themselves when they wrote that contract and in addition to the 6th year option at league minimum, they should have wrote in that if he is injured in year 2 or 3, the deal automatically defaults to 4 years total or cancels the 5th year. Considering he didn’t have another bid on the table at the time and the Red Sox kinda came out of nowhere with the deal, they could probably have squeaked it in. At least then if things have played such as they did, they’d technically only have him on the roster for 1 additional year following surgery. Not great, but manageable.
As it stands now, the Sox are royally screwed when it comes to Lackey. Actually another thing that I realized a ways back when this discussion was on MLBTR, is that Sox fans got all excited about “how they at least save with the AAV and luxury tax”, when technically no, the way I understand it. In theory his salary will be diluted or appear reduced. They get more for the same price, but the Red Sox still need to pay him his $16.5mm salary for the next 3 years and then pay him $500k in the 4th. They cannot defer that money to the last year, unless agreed upon, which I do not believe is how the contract was written. He’s on the roster for 4 more years and they are saving nothing when it comes to the luxury tax.
You clearly have very strong negative feelings toward Lackey. I don’t think there is any way a one year league minimum contract for John Lackey can be seen as anything but a positive.
Even if he sucks, it’s a preposterously low bar he has to clear to be worth that money.
The contract itself has been bad and probably will be for the remainder, but the extra year at league minimum is pure gravy for the Sox.
Disagree. In my estimation, that last (free) year counts for nothing since he’ll be shinning belt buckles on a Texas interstate by that point. In all seriousness, I don’t see Lackey being with the Sox in year 6 even for $500k, so it makes the “incentive” somewhat irrelevant. They’ll save nothing ultimately.
I think it backfired because it created a huge incentive for him to pitch hurt this year, which prob cost Boston their season. He covered up his injury, and kept pitching poorly for them.
http://newyork.yankees.mlb.com.....id=5974085
http://newyork.yankees.mlb.com.....8;c_id=mlb
http://mlb.mlb.com/video/play......7&v=3
50-50 split? Hell, if they’re willing to take even 1 penny of his contract you do it. Dump him. Take what you can get. Cashman is just unwilling to admit that he made a mistake.
How does your last sentence jive with anything that has been reported? They are actively shopping the guy, and now they are negotiating to get the best deal possible. Even a 50/50 split is literally “admitting he made a mistake”, but I guess we have to shoehorn everything into some sort of narrative.
That last sentence makes no sense. So asking for a 50-50 split indicates an unwillingness to admit a mistake, but taking $10M wouldn’t?
As far as I’m concerned, it’s tough to consider the signing a mistake when he helped them win a World Series. The last two years sucked, but flags fly forever.
Amen. Whatever happens, I will always appreciate what AJ did in ’09 and in the 2010 and 2011 post-seasons.
I know that Garret Jones is off the board,so I am looking for an alternative. The closest one I can come up with is Nate McClouth.
Alvarez?
Though of that too. The Pirates have Casey McGehee at third base.
AJ/Romine/$$$$ to the Mariners for ?????
AJ is not going to the west coast.
Hear me out. AJ, Nunez, Cervelli and Betances for Alvarez an A prospect and a B prospect. ARod DHs, bring Romine up to back up Russell. Pirates take all of AJs salary minus 4mill a year.
I like this deal but replace Nunez with adams or joseph, Nunez is a valuable asset if he can become more consistant defensively
I have gotten grief from some fellow Yankee fans for my somewhat irrational defense of AJ, but here’s the thing: if in the Bronx we still revere the likes of Bucky Dent and Aaron Boone for a timely HR, we owe AJ, at the very least, a measure of gratitude for helping our guys get to the promise land. He hasn’t given us all we expected of him, but regardless, I’d rather remember him as the guy who contributed some thrilling moments on the way to winning no. 27 in 2009. And as they say, flags fly forever.