Jun
30
Saturday Night Open Thread
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(click to embiggen)
Things were much different back in 1995, back before the days of Derek Jeter and a million different forgettable Orioles shortstops. Reader Jeff Snow sent us the above image, one of those Got Milk ads from way back in the day. Pretty funny to look back on given everything that’s happened since then, including Jeter passing Cal Ripken Jr. on the all-time hit list last night.
Anyway, here is your open thread for the night. The Mets and Dodgers (Santana vs. Eovaldi) are the Sunday night game on FOX (7pm ET), then later tonight (10pm ET) you’ll have the Red Sox and Mariners (Beckett vs. Erasmo Ramirez) on MLB Network.
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Out of curiosity is anybody else here from Connecticut?
My wife and her family are. I spend a ton of time there. Why?
most yankees fans i meet on these fan sites dont realize that Connecticut exists beyond fairfield county
What’s a Conneticut? Do you put a bandaid on it?
It’s a cut of beef not often served in American restaurants.
As in north of it? Oh contraire. Hell, my in-laws live in Hamden, on top of a hill. I’ve spent plenty of time all over your fine state.
What I will never understand is how the northwest corner of the state puts out people who look straight out of the deep south.
Beacuse when people get divorced up there they are still legally sister and brother,
This comment smacks of ignorance and perpetuates ridiculous and hurtful stereotypes. Shame on you.
Yeah. I’m a resident.
Thome to the O’s. Baltimore still fooling themselves.
They’re fooling themselves and making the wrong upgrades too. They’re offense is fine, they need pitching!
It’s a good move for them. Zero risk, not blocking anyone, definite upgrade.
It’s a good move for Thome because he gets steady ABs.
I was about to say it’s an irrelevant move for the Orioles, but that would be to ignore the good-guy factor and experience factor he can bring to younger players.
But a good move from a WAR perspective? I think not.
They won’t have nearly enough pitching to make it mean anything.
…plus good clubhouse presence, and sends the right message to their fans.
Clubhouse presents?
The Orioles get gifts in this deal too? Good trade.
Of course, every player on the 25-man gets one of his old, used wristbands. Once he’s in the HofF, they’ll be worth a lot.
Camden Yards will now be slightly more than half-full?
Now that the kids are off from school and the stretch drive is near, it’s good to send a message to your fans that you’re trying to improve or compensate for players lost to injury. For what it looks like they gave up to bring Thome to that hitters park? No brainer. Just look at all the people here who wanted him for the Yankees. Maybe they’ll follow this up with a few more before the deadline.
Oh I’m fine with them acquiring him. I’m just not expecting anything other than for them to sink in the standings.
Clubhouse presence doesn’t mean anything.
I think Buck would disagree with you.
It certainly can be ovedone,but its notmeaningless onayoung team. Many young players canbenefit frommveteranadvice,or just watching how a HOFer goes about his busi ess. They are humanbeings, you know.
It certainly can be ovedone,but its not meaningless ona young team. Many young players can benefit frommveteranadvice,or just watching how a HOFer goes about his busi s. They are humanbeings, you know.
It certainly can be ovedone,but its not meaningless on a young team. Many young players can benefit fromd veteran advice,or just watching how a HOFer goes about his business. They are human beings, you know.
Probably overrated, but unless you’re actually a member of a MLB team, I’m not sure how much weight to put in your statement.
Clubhouse presence can’t be measured. That doesn’t mean that it doesn’t mean anything.
Hasn’t happened yet, from what I see.
Great trade for B-more… Anything to try and spark them back into the swing of things. Granted, they need pitching (as others have mentioned) but not like they’re trading cornerstones of their farm or anything.
Just saw a rebroadcast of a 2007 game where a Thome backswing knocked C Mike Redmond out of the game in the first inning with a bloody seven-stitch gash to his head. Matt Garza, making his 10th ML start, had to bat the whole game as Joe Mauer moved from DH to C.
The Twins beat the White Sox 12-0 in the 2nd game of a doubleheader, after beating them 20-14 in the 1st game. Justin Morneau hit two homers off Gavin Floyd, making his AL debut, and another one off 22-year-old Boone Logan. Good stuff.
http://www.baseball-reference......7062.shtml
Somebody who is really good with computer graphics (not me) needs to please show the flip side of that side by side….have the o’s graphic above 1982-’95 on one side and the same thing flipped for the good guys 1996-2012 next to it
I don’t know about graphics but here’s the data:
Orioles Shortstops 1997-2012:
—————————–
Mike Bordick
Aaron Ledesma
Jeff Reboulet
P.J. Forbes
Ozzie Guillen
Jesse Garcia
Ivanon Coffie
Mark Lewis
Melvin Mora
Tony Batista
Brian Roberts
Luis Lopez
Mike Moriarty
Eddie Rogers
Deivi Cruz
Jose Morban
Miguel Tejada
Chris Gomez
Brandon Fahey
Freddie Bynum
Luis Fernandez
Juan Castro
Alex Cintron
Oscar Salazar
Eider Torres
Cesar Izturis
Robert Andino
Ty Wigginton
Julio Lugo
Justin Turner
J.J. Hardy
Blake Davis
Pedro Florimon
Ryan Flaherty
What would u think about trying to aquire Carlos Quentin from the Padres Mike? He dosen’t turn 30 untill end of august, and is hitting well over 300 with pop, and has proven these type seasons aren’t flukes as hes done it in the past.. Even when gardner comes back, u can still put Quentin in LF against tough lefties, and in RF to rest swish and also DH against lefties.. He’d really lengthen the lineup.. I think Quentin would fit nicely on this team..
Also, Huston Street would be a guy i’d be interested in if i were GM of the yanks..
I really like the idea of Quentin, but depending on cost. I wouldn’t want to give up a whole lot for an injury prone rental. But I agree he’d be a nice addition to the lineup – if he can stay healthy.
This. I know know from simon Castro and Pedro Hernandez so I can’t speak on the comparative package it would take to get him, but i know from josh Byrnes… And I would assume he won’t be looking to do anyone a favor and hand Quentin over for a Kenny Williams-esque package…
But i would certainly be interested in a hitter of Quentins caliber.
ya, maybe we could up the anty and get a package deal like we did with pittsburgh a couple yrs ago for nady and damaso marte, and get Quentin and huston street from the pads.. Both of those players would really help and Quentin is a big upgrade over Andruw jones and would be a great platoon LF’er and occasional RF’er, as well as DH and PH’er.. U give us a bullpen of Huston Street, Logan, Robertson, Soriano, and down the line, joba, and rapada, and watch out! Thats one mean pen right there.. I’d be willing to give up a decent amount for that package…
I was actually thinking of him more as a replacement for Ibanez than Jones, especially once Gardner gets back. Give Quentin most of the DH games. Vs. LHP Jones and Quentin play LF/DH with Gardner or Granderson getting a day off (mostly Gardner). Against RHP, Quentin DH or gives Swish or Tex a day off when ARod DH’s and Chavez is at third.
ya, i was pretty much thinking either or.. He can platoon with Ibanez and gardner, while also giving us a better overall hitter then Andruw Jones… Quentin is o another level compared to Andruw Jones at this point in Andruw’s career.. I’m not a huge Andruw fan, and as much as i appreciate the occasional dinger, its about all he does… Quentin can actually “HIT” some, as well as provide the thump… Quentin won’t even be 30 untill end of August.. U never know, Quentin might end up being a long time fix , or at least a few yrs, similar to when we aquired swisher…
Cashman specifically said that he doesnt want Quentin
He also said he doesn’t want Soriano…after they got him.
I absolutely LOVE that graphic above. I can’t believe there’s names on there I have absolutely zero recollection of. I can’t name one memory I have of Scott, Moronko, Fischlin, or Rodriguez. Zero. I somehow remember guys like Keith Smith.
I was convinced Andre Robertson would have been a superstar if it wasn’t for some injury or car accident or something. I was in grade school. What can I say.
I thought so too, and I was in my late 20s. The kid made some amazing plays at short, prior to the accident (it was on the West Side Highway, I believe, and the woman he was with was either crippled or killed). He wasn’t there long enough to know what kind of hitter he would be…but of course, back then, shortstops weren’t expected to contribute so much at the plate.
Thanks for filling in the memory there. That was a pretty big accident.
Here’s a full account I just tracked down, with emphasis on the aftermath. (You’ll see: Willie Randolph agreed with you and me that Andre was going to be a star)
http://articles.nydailynews.co.....n-pre-dawn
Agreeing with Willie is always a good thing.
Its so funny seeing Andy Stankewicz name..lol I just asked in the Chat yesterday if u remembered Andy Stankewicz..lol Man, i remember back in those early 90′s yrs, having so much hope for guys like Bam Bam Meulen, Stankewicz, Pat Kelly, Gerald Williams, Scott Kamenicki,Randy Velarde, and Jim Leyritz.. It was so frustrating watching those guys have very mediocre to less then mediocre seasons and careers.. Albeit, Pettitte, Bernie, and MO were righ around the corner or just about starting in Bernies case..
Well, some of those guys were placeholders. Kelly probably just came along at the wrong time, as he did hold down the fort at second for a few years. Meulens was a major disappointment. I did always think Kamienicki would become something. Perhaps he was the Sean Henn of his time. The “best” guy at a time where it was rather easy to be that guy.
Roberto Kelly was also a guy who just came along at the wrong time.
Thank all of them, though. They took the lumps the franchise needed to take at the time.
Roberto Kelly was my hero in those days, because he was one of the only steady all around players we had.. I was heartbroken when we got rid of him for Paul Oneill..lol Ended up being one of the best trades in baseball history, probably, as far as one team totally getting the upper hand in the trade..
Anyhow, alot of those guys i mentioned were supposed to be good.. Pat Kelly was supposed to be the real deal.. Just because the team as a whole stunk, dosen’t mean Pat Kelly needed to.. I don’t think he came at the wrong time, he just wasen’t that good.. He was decent, but more as a Role player.. He didn’ do anything after leaving the yanks for the Jays either.. Gerald Williams was a legit prospect who never panned out as well… Also, lets not forget Kevin Maas…lol
Just to show you how smart people can sometimes get it way wrong: Bill James thought the Roberto Kelly for Paul O’Neill trade was not only lopsidedly in the Reds’ favor, but also the epitome of how stupid the Yankees were in managing the franchise.
When did he say that?
In The Baseball Book of the year the trade was made.
Kevin Maas had the greatest “before the league figures me out” streak I’ve ever seen……then they figured him out.
*kaplunk*
Kevin MaasJesus Montero had the greatest “before the league figures me out” streak I’ve ever seen… Then they figured him out.*kaplunk*
I keed, I keed…. Sorta
When Montero hits 21 home runs in about two months, he can take that crown. He ain’t got shit on Maas.
Shane Spencer only might because he actually did it when the team needed it.
Shane Spencer, the Home Run Dispenser.
That reminds me of another legendary LF. During the Cleveland game the other day, when Shelley Duncan knocked in a run, the Indians announcers were taken aback: “Don’t look now but I think that was an opposite-field base hit for Shelley Duncan! Who says miracles never happen?”
So, last yr at the trade deadline, when i was really endorsing Kuroda, all i heard around here, like i do about every pitcher, is Kuroda is gonna be hammered in the AL EAST..etc Maybe we can start and see, that alot of pitchers are just good or not good, ey?
I have no clue what that even means.
U don’t? It means, maybe we should stop thinking every pitcher that pitches well in National League isn’t gonna stink because of moving to the AL.. We have quite enough samples.. The bottom line is if a pitchers good, chances are hes gonna be good where ever he pitches.. of course u have exceptions with AJ BURNETT, but hes kinda a head case..
And Javy Vazquez, and John Smoltz, and Brad Penny, and Carl Pavano, and Jaret Wright, those are the 6 I can come up with without thinking too hard about it and not even leaving NYY & BOS over the past 10 years.
There is merit to the ‘AL EAST is a better division, and some pitchers cannot adjust’. Kuroda is the exception here, IMO, not the rule.
Smoltz was pretty much done, though. In his prime he could have pitched anywhere.
Agreed, but he wrapped the season in St. Louis and had a decent go of it, if selective memory serves.
Jaret Wright was injued basically the entire time he was here.. He waen’t that good his entire career outside of one flukey yr before we got him.. He had one other yr in CLE where he was also solid, but other then that, he stunk before and after we got him.. He went 1-5 8.67 ERA in Sandiego for godsake!!!lol
John Smoltz was completely done when he went to Boston.. Thats a horrible example..
Brad Penny started stinking the yr before he came to the AL EAST.. He was terrible for the Dodgers the season before, so that kinda takes away from that example..
Carl Pavano never even pitched for us really.. He was injured the entire time for the most part.. His injuries took a toal on him, and we picked em up after pretty much one flukey yr.. Its not like he was dominating in FLA for ys and then came to NY and stunk..
I’ll give u Javy Vasquez..
Hiroki Kuroda has been solid every yr in the league, i had zero doubt in his abiliy to come over here and pitch really well.. same thing with Wandy Rodriguez.. He’d be solid if he was here as well..
Look at Pedro Martinez.. He did fine when coming to the AL, because hes a good pitcher.. And hes gonna pitch good wherever he is…
I get the overall point.
I get it. Case by case basis rather than blanket “NL pitchers can’t pitch here.”
I have no memory of Kevin Elster being a Yankee.
Very late in his career. Did nothing. I definitely remember.
Keith Smith stumped me.
I definitely remember him. Fill-in guy. Maybe handful of games?
I have no clue who Rodney Scott or Carlos Rodriguez are. Maaaaaaaybe I’m fooling myself into thinking I remember Moronko and Fischlin.
And, of course, who could forget Mr. “0 for his first 49 at-bats,” or whatever your namesake did.
Didn’t we also get Joel Skinner in that trade? You could go 0 for a lifetime with those two.
Nope. From Wikipedia:
“When the Yankees acquired Zuvella on June 30, 1986 along with outfielder Claudell Washington for Ken Griffey and Andre Robertson, they believed that they finally found the man who would be able to hold down the position.”
He also only went 0 for 28. My apologies.
I believe he did literally nothing. It was in ’94, the strike year, and he had 20 ABs and ZERO hits for the Yanks.
Then in ’96 he played in Texas, did a bunch of steroids, and hit 24 homers.
Ahhhh, the ’90s.
Oh wow. Don’t remember the Texas year at all. Partying with Brady Anderson, I see.
Do we consider Jose Pirela a top 20 prospect in the organization yet?
That’s the best Milk ad ever, and one hell of a stroll down memory lane for me. Nice to see my name’s sake on the list.
Awesome poster… Funny how The tides have turned. In 20 years we’ll see this poster same very poster looking at 20 Yankees SS (headlined, of course, by Eduardo Nunez) and On the other side it will be Adeiny Hechavarria in a Jays uni or some shit….
I was 6 in 1995 so i have no idea who any of those shortstops are
Just go to Baseball Reference and look at the Yankees year by year for those years, and you can see how horrible some of those guys were.
Which means you only remember Bobby Meacham as a shitty third-base coach, not as a shitty third-base coach AND shittier hitting shortstop.
This, for me too.
You don’t need to. They’re shit.
Mike Gallego!
I loved Triple Play ’97. If I could ever get that game to work again on any computer system (alas, it seems far too outdated to work anymore), I would love to see how many players on that game are still playing baseball today.
To give you an idea how old that game is – Jeter and ARod hadn’t broken out yet as major league stars. and beyond those two, I don’t know any active players from that game. Jamie Moyer? Even Mo isn’t on that game!
Gags did hit 10 homers one of those years with the Yanks. He was also #2 before Jeter.
Some time during tomorrow’s game, Jeter’s average is going to slip below .300 for the first time all year. When that happens, I’m going to get good and drunk. April seems like such a long time ago.
I’ll take July and first place. Thank you.
Word. That, and the DeWise era has begun… So there’s that.
I can’t help it. He’s my favorite player, and I hate to see him struggling so mightily.
Though ultimately I want the team to succeed more than I want Jeter to succeed. If I had to choose.
Then root for a Yankees Championship this Fall so he decides to retire on top and we don’t have to pay 17 million for a .600 OPS no field shortstop.
Hey now.
.600 OPS?
Nah, he won’t drop that far until at least 2014, when he’ll only be an 8M, no field SS.
Cashman isn’t dumb so I am holding out hope that Jeter becomes DH next season who only occasionally fills in at SS when the regular needs a rest.
I wouldn’t hold your breath waiting for that one.
Yeah, Jeter’s never going to accept a DH role until he absolutely can’t take the field anymore. The only way his bat makes it into the lineup now is as a SS. No way a DH can put up those kind of numbers, unless it’s just a complete give-up on the season. That, or Girardi gets infected with the Joe Torre sentimentality disease AKA Ruben Sierra Syndrome.
Now that I think about it, that could easily happen.
Derek Jeter will be fine. Don’t you worry.
I’m not saying I expected him to OPS 1.100 the rest of the season; I just kind of hoped he’d split the difference between that and .600.
One MVP-caliber month followed by 5 months of below-replacement-level play will really bum me out.
I don’t think that happens. I think he’s close to hitting bottom and will level out to around 285/345/380 the rest of the way. Not great, but pretty good for a SS.
Watch him play more and pay attention to his stats less. You’re not going to remember OPS when he retires.
I am watching him play.
OK, forget about the OPS. I want to see Jeter do something other than tap weak groundballs to the infield. That’s what I see when watching the games.
I just don’t want him to embarrass himself in his later years. He’s not doing that yet, but if his offense gets much worse, combined with his already subpar defense, it could get ugly.
Maybe it will get ugly. It’s up to him to decide how ugly he’ll let it get.
I wouldn’t worry too much. I generally tend to think of Jeter as a freak of nature. The end won’t be great, but it won’t be as bad as some fear it will.
Rodney Scott actually was the Expos’ starting shortstop at the end of the 70′s and basically ended his career playing a handful of games at short for the Yanks. Thank you, Baseball Reference. I still don’t remember him.
Rob Neyer said he might have single handedly cost the Expos possible division titles and/or pennants in the early 80′s due to the fact that he hit 1st or 2nd and had an OBP of about .320.
In other words, Rodney Scott was a real shithead.
Ah, I remember Fischlin now. Actually got over 100 ABs in ’86 and got some regular time with Cleveland. Might even remember him more there.
Rodriguez got almost 200 ABs for Boston in ’94? Still have zero recollection of him anywhere. It must be the generic latin man name.
At this rate, you guys are gonna break BRef… I can actually hear the gears grinding on the interwebs the further down this list you all go….
Nah, most of these guys I remember, although Keith Smith had his cup of coffee much earlier than I remember. I had placed in him the early 90′s vortex of suck, but he actually was on the team in ’84.
So, so many painful memories in that ad. Have to admit it’s a great ad though. What would a reply for the Jeter era look like?
Greatest RAB handle ever…
Why did Mason Williams leave the game tonight?
Hopefully disciplinary reasons. No injuries please.
You got your wish.
Going to see Ted in a bit with friends. I complain that Seth MacFarlane’s shows are all exactly the same and this movie is probably going to be no different, but you know what it’s still good for a laugh.
Nelson? I can understand going for the laugh but still…
That graphic above is scary and it may very well happen again, and indeed is probably likely. The black hole and parade of catchers between Munson and Posada is now in full swing, and when Jeter retires the parade of SS’s will no doubt also return.
It’ll happen somewhere. You’re not going to have players with Jeter’s longevity at every position.
No doubt about it, but there are certain types of postions that are more difficult to fill with any consistency. The revolving door of mediocre or less SS’s and catchers for fifteen years was painful after a while, and that was during the days when Steinbrenner would pay top dollar for anybody, but they never could come up with a solid player. I remember when Jeter showed up finally and there were predictions he’d hold SS for a decade and all I remember thinking was “thank, god, make it so.”
Catchers maybe the worst. Even the Twins wouldn’t let Mauer leave and paid him a forture, and we’ve seen the Cardinals lock up Molina and the Diamondbacks lock up Montero this season. 1′Bman can be had, and so can OFers. Catcher, not so easy. Yankee cans could be in for a decade of bitching and moaning about Russell Martin types, and he might be better than most. As I used to say about Posada when Yankee fans were knocking him, you’re gonna miss him when he’s gone. There’s a whole generation of Yankee fans who came of age in the 1990s who really don’t understand what might be coming.
I hope for the continual development of players like Gary Sanchez. Cashman remembers this, which is why he is so focused on drafting catchers. SS is not quite as bad, but it could be.
I should add, btw, that the Yankees are better run than they were at GMS’s worst point in the 1980s, so I’m hoping they develop a catcher or SS quicker than they did back then.
If not, they might get lucky and an Elvis Andrus will hit the market, but there will be other teams contending, and they can’t assume they’ll get him. So then it’s trade or develop.
You could argue that SS was a defensive-oriented position throughout the 80′s and that the majority of these guys were glove-first guys they hoped could hit.
This list is also a bit misleading. Half these guys were injury fill-ins and whatnot.
You’re underestimating Russell Martin a bit, but point taken on catchers.
Most of those guys weren’t even good defenders. It was bleak. : -)
As for Russell, I’m not. My comment was directed more at many Yankee fans who complain about him and don’t want him re-signed yet he actually is better than most. Yet depending on how much he asks for and for how long, he may rotate out, and in comes the Cervelli/Stewart combo.
How did Sanchez do tonight?
So why would a bunch of fine, upstanding Yankee fans be commenting on a blog open thread on a Saturday night? I’m curious.
My built-in excuse is sleeping in another room with no babysitter while my wife goes and picks up the take-out.
I misread that statement about the babysitter. I thought you were sleeping with the babysitter in the other room. Wife will definately not be happy when she returns with the take-out!
Haven’t met that kind of babysitter yet, Rob.
Lots of NYY fans on the West Coast.
Hey all. Sorry to miss the game thread today as I was actually at the game. Had been dreading the heat but it was much cooler than I anticipated and the game was quick and the Yankees won.
I went with a friend who had tickets and I sat in this weird section that was almost devoid of Yankee fans. Well there were Japanese people there to see Kuroda but, from listening to them, I didn’t think they were really Yankee fans. There was a group from Scotland or somewhere who were just there to see an American baseball game. There was also a crapload of White Sox fans in the row right in front of us and, get this, Red Sox fans with Youkilis jerseys on. It was like twilight zone.
Good game but except for Red Sox and Mets games, I’ve never sat in a section where Yankee fans were outnumbered.
That’s weird. The Japanese and Scottish visitors would be fine, since they’re not there rooting against the Yankees. In the case of the Scots, I’d even be happy to explain what was happening if they were near and had an interest. (My Japanese wouldn’t be good enough for the other group, not to mention they probably have a good grasp on the game if they’re there for Kuroda.)
The White Sox fans and Red Sox fans would be annoying. I will say one thing. Red Sox fans can come to Yankee Stadium and watch a game generally undisturbed, but the same can not be said in reverse. Yet somehow NYers get a bad rap.
One of the Scottish guys definitely understood the game and clapped for the Yankees but his explanation of a “fielders choice” to the group was pretty hilarious. Because he knew what he was talking about but he could have been talking in Sanskrit for the way they were looking at him. By the end of the game the others were clapping at the right time. A lot of stuff seemed to perplex them though.
The Japanese were talking mostly in Japanese but when they did speak English they seemed to get what was going on.
And the Red Sox fans? Just completely weird.
If it’s not Scottish…..
The Dodgers have scored two runs in the last 48 innings
I think I added wrong and it’s 57
What are Stockton and McCarver talking about.
“Tigers lacked that bat to go with Cabrera last year…”
Victor Martinez had a SPECTACULAR season in 2011. How do we so easily forget this?
McCarver only remembers two time periods:
Three minutes ago, and when Bob Gibson was pitching. Anything in between is just a blur.
You can’t ask for any more from him.
Idk if anybody’s watching but embedded Yankee Mark Melancon is on the mound for the Sox in a 2-2 game in Seattle.
bahaha, I’m pretty sure that NESN’s K zone thing is just controlled by a person(and a red sox fan) because there was a full 10 second delay between the replay of the pitch, which was clearly high, and the graphic showing it at “the very top of the strike zone.”