The Implication of Gardner’s Latest Setback


(Mike Stobe/Getty Images)

Brett Gardner has played in just nine of 89 games this season, though he took a step closer to returning when he came to the plate four times in a simulated game on Sunday. Unfortunately, Brett woke up yesterday with the same familiar soreness in his right (non-throwing) elbow and has again been shutdown. What was originally diagnosed as a bone bruise and an elbow strain in April has now resulted in three (three!) setbacks. He will head for yet another MRI today.

The Yankees have the best record in baseball and have more than survived the loss of Gardner, but that doesn’t mean this setback is insignificant. Raul Ibanez has played far more left field than expected and the Yankees are concerned about the 40-year-old wearing down as the season progresses, particularly in the scorching hot months of July and August. The team also lacks speed on offense and the outfield defense went from a strength to a weakness in one fell swoop. Gardner’s glovework is that good.

There’s a chance today’s MRI will bring good news and Brett will just need another day or two of rest, but at this point the Yankees can’t count on that. Whatever this thing is, it’s just not healing for some reason. Ibanez has filled in capably and Dewayne Wise has had his moments, but the club is going to have to go out and find an outfield upgrade at some point before the deadline. They haven’t gotten a shred of good news about Gardner’s elbow since we found out it wasn’t broken back in April and there’s little reason to expect any in the near future.

The tricky thing is that just any old outfielder won’t work. Since Wise will presumably get the axe to clear the eventual roster spot, they need to make sure any player they acquire can play center field. You don’t want Nick Swisher or Andruw Jones out there in anything other than an emergency. That’s not just a preference when looking for a replacement outfielder, it’s a requirement. Center field skills are a must. Speed and ability to work the count would be preferred, but they aren’t necessary. Essentially the Yankees should be looking for someone similar to Gardner but better than Wise, who admittedly has played well in his limited action.

So who is that player? Beats me. I haven’t really looked but I’m sure we could dig up a name or two after a while. Some of them may even belong to players who are actually available. The Yankees do have Chris Dickerson stashed in Triple-A and I’ve been beating that drum for a few weeks now, but it’s clear they prefer Wise at this point. Either way, the outfield situation became both murkier and clearer with news of Gardner’s latest setback. We don’t really know which way the team will go now but at least they do know that something has to be done about their outfield situation. Waiting around for Brett was reasonable for the first half of the season, but doing the same down the stretch isn’t advisable.

Categories : Injuries, Trade Deadline


  1. JohnC says:


    What’s so great about Dickerson? Another singles hitter with speed and defense. No better than Wise.

    • RI$P FTW says:

      You don’t have to spend $ or prospects to get him.

      • vin says:

        And he is a career .270 .355 .415 hitter against righties. As opposed to Wise, who isn’t much of a hitter against righties or lefties.

        It’s probably a lateral move anyway – sometimes its better to have a (somewhat) lesser player who has a clearly defined role on the team. If it ain’t broke, don’t fix it (at least not with such a minor move).

        • Rainbow Connection (futurely Dummies Playing w/ Balls and/or RI$P FTW) says:

          they would have the same role.

          i think its just like a stewart/cervelli thing… the yankees want both players and the only way to have both is wise on the 25man and dickerson in the minors.

    • GT Yankee says:

      From what I’ve seen Wise seems a better fit than Dickerson. He plays great D, has had a timely hit or two and is perfect in stolen bases. If you need to DFA someone, how about Darnell McDonald or is he no longer there and I missed it?

  2. Jake S says:

    No mention of Victorino? Obviously his defense isn’t as good as Gardner, but he seems like the most obvious target.

    • Mike E says:

      Don’t get the Victorino thing. He’ll likely command a $12-$13m yearly salary after this, meaning he’ll earn the Phillies draft pick compensation. There’s no way Cashman trades a first round caliber prospect for a 3-4 month rental of someone OPSing in the .600′s.

      • Bavarian Yankee says:

        who says you need to trade a first round caliber prospect for him? We got Berkman for Melancon 2 years ago and Berkman was better that year than Victorino is this year.
        Victorino’s slashline is .251/.316/.389 and teams can no longer offer arbitration to FAs they acquired during a season, that makes players like Victorino even less valuable.

        • Rainbow Connection (futurely Dummies Playing w/ Balls and/or RI$P FTW) says:

          the phillies can make a qualifying offer for him, so theyll be able to get a draft pick. why would they trade him for someone they dont view better than a top 35 draft pick when thats exactly what they can get for him at the end of the year?

          comparing it to berkman is apples and oranges. berkmans salary was prohibitive and houston had no intentions of retaining him or offering arbitration.

          • Andy in Sunny Daytona says:

            If I’m Victorino, and the Phillies made a qualifying offer, I take it. i don’t think any team is going to offer Victorino $12.5M next season.

            • YanksFanInBeantown says:

              But he might get a 2 or 3 year deal for $20-$30 million. He’s only 31 and his BABIP is down 30 points from his career average.

            • Mike E says:

              I think there’s a good chance Victorino gets a multi year $10m+ contract. He’s coming off two season (2011 and 2009) where he earned MVP votes, and he’s 6 for 16 with 1 double and 3 triples since the allstar break.

            • Rainbow Connection (futurely Dummies Playing w/ Balls and/or RI$P FTW) says:

              youd be making a foolish mistake in that case. my guess is youre standing alone if you think victorino couldnt beat $12.5M on the open market

          • Bavarian Yankee says:

            the Phillies likely can’t afford Hamels if they really wanna keep Victorino. Victorino would accept arbitration, the way he’s playing right now nobody would pay him more on the open market.

        • Mike E says:

          The Phillies would say they need a first round caliber prospect. Why would they just trade him away for nothing if they can wait it out and get draft pick compensation at the end of the year? The difference between Berkman and Victorino, is that Berkman wouldn’t have gained the Astros a draft pick, while Victorino likely gets the Phillies a first round pick.

          • Bavarian Yankee says:

            the Phillies won’t get a pick, Victorino would accept arbitration. I think there happened enough in the last weeks to ask if the Phillies even want Victorino beyond this year.

            • Mike E says:

              The Phillies have to offer him a contract worth $12-13M, which I highly doubt he takes. He’ll be 32, and looking for possibly his final pay day. Coming off 2011 and 2009 season, he’ll earn a multi year deal above $10m annually, which is a lot better than the $12-13M one year salary.

            • Rainbow Connection (futurely Dummies Playing w/ Balls and/or RI$P FTW) says:

              even in the worst year of his career, he’s still on pace to get 3 WAR. hes only 31. switch hitter than can play all 3 OF spots. he could easily beat $12.5M.

              • Bavarian Yankee says:

                we’ll see. Kenny Williams will make it happen XD

              • Andy in Sunny Daytona says:

                For a 1-year deal, Victorino probably won’t get more than $12.5M, gives him a chance to get rebound from a poor season.

                • Ted Nelson says:

                  Not many players dream of one year deals, though. Victorino isn’t getting younger.

                  • MannyGeee says:

                    plenty of recent evidence to indicate that a guy with his stock low would accept a 1 year deal (or arb in this case) in order to rebuild their value:

                    Berkman, Beltre, Pena all come to mind over the past 3 seasons.

                    • YanksFanInBeantown says:

                      Those guys had already had made their money though. This will be Victorino’s first time on the market, he’s going to want to test the waters.

                    • Ted Nelson says:

                      He might, sure. He might also get a long term deal that he can’t turn down.

          • viridiana says:

            A first-round caliber prospect? Most first round picks — especially after the top 10 -fail. A mid-lvel prospect wha has succeeded at AA or AAA is likely a better bet than a mid first round pick. Also, one that can be cashed in sooner.
            Seems to me someone like Warren or CoJo would be a pretty good haul for the Phils. Not to mention the salary relief.

            • Ted Nelson says:

              While this is true, some teams would prefer the upside of a 1st. Adam Warren has about 0% chance of being Mike Trout or Joey Votto, but the pick might has a chance. Not all GMs are rational.

              If you buy him as a 2B, CoJo is a pretty good prospect. Do you want to give up a middle IF with a good bat for 1/2 a season of an ok OF? Gardner might still be back soon, rendering Victorino your 4th OF and cutting Ibanez or Jones.

              • Rainbow Connection (futurely Dummies Playing w/ Balls and/or RI$P FTW) says:

                whats wrong with this outcome? we upgrade our OF and all it cost was corban joseph

                • Ted Nelson says:

                  All it cost was a guy with a good chance to be a solid starting, LHH 2B making league minimum for 3 years and then below market for 2 or 3 more years… And one of two bargaining chips with/ replacements for Cano…

                  • Ted Nelson says:

                    And then if they find out in a week that Gardner is fine… it also costs Ibanez or Jones, and you gave up CoJo for a few months of a 4th OF.

                    They should bide their time until the deadline or a definitive decision is reached on Gardner (he comes back or they shut him down).

              • newguy says:

                Why would you cut one of the guys designed to be a platoon DH? I think Wise would be the cut. Victorino as a 4th outfielder over Wise would defintely be an upgrade.

                • Ted Nelson says:

                  You cut Wise immediately and then if/when Gardner comes back, you have to cut someone else.

                  • Ted Nelson says:

                    So my point is really that they should wait until a final verdict is reached on Gardner or right until the deadline.

  3. Bill Toncic Jr says:

    Shane Victorino seems to be the most ideal fit for the Yankees. He’s on the last year of his contract,is a switch-hitter with speed(an element missing w/o Gardner),good defensive OF(7 OF assists this year)&hits with more power than Gardner. And,if he feels he fits, could sign with Yanks in off-season (or not) as Swisher’s replacement.

    • Robinson Tilapia says:

      Everything you’re saying makes sense. The question is cost. Are you giving away something of real value for him? I’m not sure I am. The less-than-ideal internal options have not exactly hurt the team in the standings, have they?

  4. Dan says:

    What are the chances they go for someone with little time left on their contract, with the hope of buying them for cheap? Maybe like Victorino?

  5. RI$P FTW says:

    ‘The Implication’.

  6. Bill Toncic Jr says:

    And, we’ve been lucky in playing Ibanez/Jones in the OF as much as we have w/o them breaking down. Victorino would take care of that.

  7. crawdaddy says:

    I want Victorino.

  8. DERP says:

    Is Dexter Fowler available? Would cost a lot, but three years of team control after this year would help with the budget.

    His stats on the road are pretty bad though, so maybe he is not really good.

  9. austinmac says:

    Wise is as good as or better than Dickerson. Their is a reason older guys are in the minors.

    Upton is my dream. Victorino would be worth a try. Standing pat is not, in my view, a good option.

    • Robinson Tilapia says:

      Of course there’s a reason. You’re seeing it. It’s also the reason these same guys will have jobs somewhere next year. Not a bad gig.

  10. LK says:

    Victorino does seem like the most logical fit, depending on cost. If the Phils are going to make a qualifying offer, any trade would have to be for something more valuable than a first rounder; not sure if Cashman will be willing to go there for a guy who’s taken a big step back this year.

  11. Rainbow Connection (futurely Dummies Playing w/ Balls and/or RI$P FTW) says:

    this thread is all victorino all the time.

  12. Eddard says:

    We can get by with Wise, Ibanez and Jones. We do have the best record in baseball. Wise probably wouldn’t hit in the playoffs anyway. Wait for Gardner. If he can’t come back by Sept then we’ll get by with what we have. Don’t trade the farm for a short term rental.

  13. genteme says:

    Gardy ???…..

  14. Paulie21 says:

    Given their current position in the standings, I’d mitigate the uncertainty of Gardy’s return by playing Wise a bit more often (particularly on those really hot days). Everyone keeps saying we need a speed guy in left field, so use Wise. No, he’s not as good as Brett, but he’s an approximation. I don’t want to give up prospects for a marginal improvement, and anybody that’s a major improvement will cost too much.

    • Mikeman341 says:

      This is exactly the frame of mind we should have. There’s not much on the trade market available that is worth the cost in prospects. Even Justin Upton has a lot of downside…he’s close to a true 3 outcome kind of guy, as he has nearly 3X as many strikeouts as he does walks, sure he is under team control for another 3 years but I always wonder to myself, if he’s that good why is his current team shopping him? The Upton Bros. are earning the deserved reps as very good athletes and maybe not the highest echelon of baseball players. In any event, what’s available either potentially or actually is not worth the cost. I honestly think we can make things work with the tools we already have on hand.

  15. Nyyankfan7 says:

    The guys on XM were talking about Ichiro being a possible replacement. Not sure how I feel because of his down year but maybe a playoff run and short porch in right could rejuvenate him for a couple months.

    • Rainbow Connection (futurely Dummies Playing w/ Balls and/or RI$P FTW) says:

      id rather have dickerson.

    • Steve (different one) says:

      Jack Z came out and said that the Mariners intend to bring him back next year. Even though he’s been horrible this year, I wouldn’t be against bringing him in for 2 months as a pure salary dump and seeing if he could get hot. You are basically telling Seattle they will get him back next year.

      Don’t think it would happen though, as it would prob cost Seattle too many ticket sales.

  16. Chad Gaudin the Friendly Ghost says:

    In the interest of coming up with a name not Victorino…

    I think I saw somewhere (probably a lame ESPN writer making shit up) that the Twins may trade Denard Span. That wouldn’t be a terrible option, he can fill in for Gardner in LF this year, can play CF, and can move to RF while Swisher walks. He’s got a relatively inexpensive contract (like $5mm/per or something) with a buyout in ’15.

    • Strat says:

      I’d be OK with Span for the rest of this season, but not as Swisher’s eventual replacement… unless you think Gardner won’t ever return. I don’t see how you can have both Gardner and Span in the same outfield next season and going forward, especially in the two corner spots.

      • MannyGeee says:

        this… not sure Span gives you the HR’s you are looking for in an OF where Brett Gardner is the counterpart.

        That said, I would roll the dice if he comes cheap, he could also fall into that 4OF role that Wise currently holds come 2013. speed & defense off the bench for $5M in 2013? yes please!

  17. Dave the Ox says:

    What’s the difference between Dickerson and Wise?

    • Mike Axisa says:

      Dickerson can actually hit a little, especially against RHP.

      • JohnC says:

        Yeah, In AAA

        • Rainbow Connection (futurely Dummies Playing w/ Balls and/or RI$P FTW) says:

          nope… in the majors. as his season worth of PAs would suggest anyway.

      • CP says:

        But it’s probably not worth the possibility that they’d lose Wise. If they could send Wise to AAA and bring up Dickerson, that’s something they might do, but they’re not going to lose all of their outfield depth just the for marginal upgrade from Wise to Dickerson.

        • Ted Nelson says:

          My thought exactly, CP.Ii don’t take it to mean they prefer Wise to Dickerson in absolute terms. Rather, Dickerson wouldn’t play over Ibanez anyway so why waste the dept? You’d cut Wise and then cut Dickerson when Gardner or a replacement comes along. If anything Wise may be bette suited to the PR role than Dickerson.

    • Rainbow Connection (futurely Dummies Playing w/ Balls and/or RI$P FTW) says:

      dickersons a league average hitter and wise is a chad curtis at the plate.

      • Robinson Tilapia says:

        I’m not looking at any numbers, but I’d say Chad Curtis was a better hitter. Still, you just made a good point about being able to win championship with fringe role players playing their roles well.

    • Steve (different one) says:

      Can Dickerson pitch?

  18. Reggie C. says:

    Cameron Maybin… Pass.

    Franklin Gutierrez? Meh … He’s missed so much time, but he’s still a super quality defender. likely overpaid and not a good bet to last 100 games, Gutierrez looks like he’ll shortly be returning to game action and with the season more than half over I like the chances he stays healthy, especially in a limited role.

  19. Typical MIT Nerd says:

    Trade the farm for BJ Upton!!!

  20. Bartolo's Colon says:

    maybe gardner can just learn to swing one handed???? with his defense alone, he can probably out WAR most outfielders

  21. BrooklynRats says:

    Denard Span is interesting, but the Twins are going to want a starting pitcher with a few years in return.

  22. LarryM.,Fl. says:

    We have to do something this team is painfully slow on the basepaths. I would go all out for a player who can start in LF and possibly take over for Swisher in 2013. Upton and Span come to mind. I’m sure their are more. Victorino is a rental that would add some defense and some basepath speed.

    I have soured a bit on Swisher. Last nights two backwards K’s with bases loaded were just more of my expectation with Swisher in crunch time. Plus I doubt he would be reasonably affordable toward our 2014 budget cap.

    This team is doing well but I find the playoff competition to be tougher and scratching out runs is usually the way as opposed to the big game HR. A team which plays offensively as the Yanks do may find it tough to change their MO during playoff time.

    I’m not sayingthe Yanks can’t win the WS but it would be a better opportunity with a balanced attach. Thus a trade for a fleet footed OF to take over for Gardner who I believe maybe done for the year. But I have been wrong before. Please be wrong!

    • Rainbow Connection (futurely Dummies Playing w/ Balls and/or RI$P FTW) says:

      you would really go “all out” for denard span?

    • Sweet Dick Willie says:

      We have to do something

      No we they don’t. They currently have a 9 game lead in the division and the best record in MLB.

      I find the playoff competition to be tougher

      Tougher than who?

      and scratching out runs is usually the way as opposed to the big game HR

      This is patently false. Good pitchers give up HRs to HR hitters (see Weaver, Jered). It is much easier to run into hanging curve for a HR than it is to string together 3 straight singles against a good pitcher.

      It appears very likely the Yanks will make the post season. Then it’s just a matter of getting hot. The Cardinals clearly were not the best team in the league last year, but got hot (and lucky) at the right time.

    • MattG says:

      I didn’t see the first at bat, I just heard it on the radio.

      But, if you watched Swisher’s at bat in the eighth, and came away soured, you don’t know baseball. That was a GREAT at bat, and he just got beat by a greater pitch.

      • MannyGeee says:

        yeah, he got beat on the 8th(?) pitch of an AB by a reeeeeeally good pitch that could have gone either way, to be honest.

        But nah, the narrative is that he sucks, so lets go with that.

        • mike says:

          he didnt get beat…he struck out, and didnt drive in the go ahead run in a key spot. Oh, wait….that was the 1st inning….in the 8th inning, he didnt drive in the go ahead run with the bases loaded and struck out..

          not a narrative, just the facts.

          have fun elsewhere in 2013, Sir Nick

          • Preston says:

            You should judge players by process, not outcome. Nick Swisher gives a good AB every time up. He works counts, fouls of pitches and punishes mistakes by hitting it out of the stadium. Judging him on the outcome of two AB’s in which he had a quality approach is asinine.

      • LarryM.,Fl. says:

        If you consider a strike out and running the pitch count up a good at bat, Ok but twice he walked back to the dugout with his $hit eating grin and was bailed out by another player. Never putting the ball in play. How many of you guys have been screaming that he’s non playoff player.

      • LarryM.,Fl. says:

        Matt G.

        I don’t know baseball. how many ways could have Nick Swisher brought in the go ahead run. You think about it. Nick Swisher did the worst possible result. He was beat on two breaking pitches for strike three in those 2 AB’s.

        I like Nick but he’s not worth 12 million if your cap is 189 million in 2014.

        • MattG says:

          You should know it is not golf. The ball is not on a tee. There is an actual player trying to beat Swisher in that spot, and Swisher got beat. By a great pitch.

          He showed an excellent approach, but he got beat. It happens.

          Using this at bat as evidence of anything is foolish.

          • LarryM.,Fl. says:

            Matt. Thanks for responding back. I don’t judge him on one AB. I know how difficult the game is to play. Swisher is a very good everyday player but I believe he fails to get it down in tough situations.

  23. vin says:

    Joba to left?

  24. Jobu says:

    Ronier Mustelier, don’t have to give up a thing

  25. Andrew Brotherton says:

    I think Denard Span and Shane Victorino are the two winners in the next outfield derby. We have pitching to match up with Twins for Span, something along the lines of Phelps, Mitchell, Adams.

    • Robinson Tilapia says:

      Which Mitchell? I’m not sure I’m giving up either Phelps or Adams for Span. Adams can be a piece for Victorino, especially if they’re concerned about Utley breaking down. Yes, I get the irony in saying that.

    • MannyGeee says:

      Adam Warren fits the Minnesota mold. Jus sayin

  26. Greg says:

    I think Shane Victorino would be the best and cheapest option outside of the organization. I personally think the Phillies want him out. Remember he got into a spat with Charlie Manuel over his place in the lineup a couple of weeks ago. I think he wants out and I think the Phillies want him out.

  27. keithr says:

    Willingham would be nice, if not for that whole “need a backup CF” thing.

  28. Wise is out of options (right?) and I doubt he’d get through waivers if he was DFA’d, so they probably have no inclination to dump him for Dickerson right now and lose the depth.

    • Strat says:

      I agree… I think that’s the reason they haven’t made the move with Dickerson. He isn’t better by enough of a margin to warrant losing the depth. Wise is not likely to clear waivers.

      • Paul VuvuZuvella says:

        This may have made sense in June but as dog days of August approach, and if Gardy’s prognosis isn’t good, maybe it’s time to make the move.

        • Strat says:

          Dickerson is out of options too though, so if you bring him up and lose Wise, you probably have to keep him here or you’ll lose him too. Unless I’m missing something, it seems like you’d be risking quite a bit of organizational depth for marginal improvement.

    • vin says:

      Yep, same thing with Dickerson. Except Cashman passed Dickerson through waivers at the start of the season (when everyone had their opening day rosters pretty much set). If he tried again now, he would get snatched up.

      That’s why I said above it was a lateral move at best. No point in disrupting the roster to replace Wise with Dickerson. Upton (Justin, BJ, or Kate) for Wise is a different story all together.

    • Robinson Tilapia says:

      DFA is an inevitability for guys like this, though.

      • Ted Nelson says:

        Problem is you lose Wise, then you lose Dickerson when Gardner comes back or a trade happens. Still have Fukadome and Mustelier I suppose.

        • Robinson Tilapia says:

          Who was it a few years ago who did a very nice job filling in at the start of the season, then got DFA’d at the deadline by the Yankees? There was one particular name for whom I think most felt sad that he wouldn’t be around for the stretch run, but such is life. Can’t remember who it was right now.

          It’s a nice living sometimes being DeWayne Wise. You have a Sportscenter moment in a new uniform every other year.

          • Rainbow Connection (futurely Dummies Playing w/ Balls and/or RI$P FTW) says:

            randy winn?

          • Ted Nelson says:

            I don’t feel bad for Wise. I don’t care about him at all. If anything I’m talking about protecting Dickerson.

            I care about preserving some depth for the stretch run. I want Dickerson or Fukadome or Mustelier to be starting should an OF injury or two occur, not Garner or Melky Mesa or the first shlub off the street. These guys are fairly fungible, but at this time of the season you can’t just count on a good one lying around.

  29. Stan the Man says:

    How about they get back Austin Jackson or Melky since neither should have been traded to begin with.

    • Tcmiller30 says:

      I know! I hate that we have Granderson instead of AJax now!

      And there’s no way to say Melky would have dedicated himself if he never left NY. I’d bet bouncing around and feeling unwanted may have helped him realize he had to put in a little effort and get in shape.

    • jjyank says:

      ? Melky was not the same player when he was traded (or even the year after), and AJax helped us get Grandy.

    • Robinson Tilapia says:

      So when the guys you trade for them turn into something, will you come back and complain that we should have kept them? Weak game, son.

    • Jim Is Bored says:

      If we had Melky during the year he was the worst player in baseball, the yankeeverse may have exploded.

  30. Christopher says:

    It’s hard to believe that in the entire world there’s not one single player who can bring some speed and defense to this team in left or center.

    • Ted Nelson says:

      They already have Wise.

      The question is cost. There are tons of players who would be an improvement, their teams aren’t giving them away though.

    • Rainbow Connection (futurely Dummies Playing w/ Balls and/or RI$P FTW) says:

      you dont view wise/granderson as speedy or good defenders?

  31. James says:

    I truly believe that the Yankees can go forward without making a deal. The most positive aspect of the Gardner injury is that it has given more at bats to Chavez.

    With Wise available to fill in and with such a large lead in the standings, there is no reason to overwork Ibanez.

    I was fortunate enough to go to last night’s game. I’m happy with this team as is.

    The only way we should make a deal is if the player is good enough to replace Swisher next year.

  32. Chris says:


  33. Bartolo's Colon says:

    Jeter to LF!!!!!

  34. Brian S. says:

    Damn shame Mustelier had to hit the DL. Also this is OT but what happened to Angelo Gumbs?

  35. OMG! Bagels! says:

    I’m not really going to be happy with anyone not named Brett Gardner. I can’t believe they don’t really know what is going on with him. (I don’t mean I don’t believe it, like they’re lying, I mean it is unbelievably crazy).

  36. Stan the Man says:

    Why wouldn’t they just bring up Fukodome if Gardner is going to continue to be out?

  37. jjyank says:

    Probably not a popular opinion, but I’m okay with some combination of Ibanez, Jones, Wise, and maybe Dickerson down the line. I wouldn’t mind Victorino, but I would not give up a quality prospect to get him, which probably means it wouldn’t happen. Not sure who else is a fit.

    • Robinson Tilapia says:

      I think that first place means you try to strengthen the team as much as possible for the stretch run, so the team should be out there looking to see what they can bring in. The position they’re in means they shouldn’t be looking for anything big.

      I’d be fine with Victorino, because he’s the only name being brought up here and I don’t feel like scouring the internet for other options (that’s why we have Greg on the payroll), as long as the price is right and players who don’t either have a real chance to play a role for this franchise moving forward or would be pieces in a better deal for a better player in the offseason aren’t involved. If that can’t happen, yeah, I’m fine with what the team’s good.

      Rainbow Connection said it best (!!!): Chad Curtis.

      • Rooting for U.S. Steel says:

        We’re mostly in agreement here. The one exception is that I think first place with the cushion means the stretch run is less important than the playoffs. Nothing is guaranteed, of course… but one really, REALLY has to like our chances to be involved in the post-season right now.

        Granted, collapses do happen, and I may well be tempting the fates by saying this. But I’d sooner see us trotting out the AAA folks to give more rest to the older regulars during July and August (for the non-NYCers — we’ve had a set of miserable days here). This team doesn’t have the stink of collapse around it… I hope.

        And yes, in some cases we run the risk of losing the minor league vets once we bring ‘em up. But I’d rather burn ‘em now and have the established ML players who are going to be on the postseason roster playing every day toward the end of the season. Sept. 1 may only be six and a half weeks away… but those are going to be six and a half hot, miserable weeks.

        There’s always a chance we might bring up a true improvement from the minors, which would make the talk of having to trade valuable pieces for rentals moot.

        And — to Robinson Tilapia’s point, above — mid-season auditions facilitated by our lead cushion allow the team to evaluate the minor league folks, giving the big-league team a better sense of which MiLers it can rely on during September to rest the vets.

        There’s one other factor regarding the market, and perhaps it’s the biggest one: Given the new playoff schedule, we have only a sense of the economics of late-season acquisitions. I strongly suspect we’re going to see prices paid for pickups far, far in excess of what has been discussed.

        Maybe not “Wow, A-Rod looks like a bargain now!” excess, but excess nonetheless. And given the crazy asking prices I expect to see, I’m not ruling out the A-Rod sentiment completely.

        • Ted Nelson says:

          The issue with burning the good MiLB OFs is if one of the regulars gets hurt. Giving guys days off might slightly lower the risk of that, but it certainly doesn’t eliminate it.

          I would say that you use them, but don’t just burn them for the sake of it.

      • Ted Nelson says:

        Pretty sure Victorino won’t come unless you give up a piece with a future. Besides just keeping him for the pick, there are other playoff contenders who actually need an OF.

    • Strat says:

      It would seem that Cashman is inclined to agree with you. He doesn’t appear ready to make a costly move, and with what’s out there that we’ve seen, I tend to agree too. While Upton certainly is intriguing, the fact that Arizona seems so ready to deal a guy of his talent/contract/age makes me uneasy given the inevitable cost.

      • jjyank says:

        Yeah, I like Upton a lot, but I’ve become a little way myself now that it’s been awhile since that new broke. I really don’t think that there’s anyone out there who is both an upgrade and not cost prohibitive in terms of prospect.

        • Ted Nelson says:

          And if there is someone available at a reasonable cost, it’s tough to guess who from our couches…

  38. blake says:

    Buster says that if the Marlins sell then Giancarlo could be available…..discuss

    • jjyank says:

      I really don’t see the Marlins as sellers right after they threw so much money at free agents last offseason.

      • Rooting for U.S. Steel says:

        As of right now, those expensive acquisitions haven’t yielded significant playoff hopes for The Fish. If Atlanta collapses and the Marlins go on a hot streak (I don’t think the Mets are going anywhere this year, Dickey or not), that could change…

        but if not, management may look at a) Washington’s chances for continued near-term dominance (which look pretty good to me — and you’re a Washingtonian, I believe, so you’d know better); b) the likelihood of Miami slipping into one of the wild card spots in 2013-2014-2015 and c) its own minor league system and decide it could spare a few pieces.

        That home run pinball machine it has ain’t cheap to operate, y’know…

        • jjyank says:

          I don’t think they’ll win the division any time soon, but trading Stanton would be a pretty big white flag for the future. A future that makes it easier to make the playoffs than in the past.

    • Steve (different one) says:

      Find it impossible to believe they would trade him, but I would open to trading just about anyone for him.

      He would be an absolute blast to root for.

      Never going to happen, he’s just too cheap for too long to fathom why he’d be available.

    • Robinson Tilapia says:

      Well, they’d be dumb enough but, with that new stadium, and a history of sending fans running through dismantling teams, that would set historically new levels of stupidity for a sports franchise. I say no to them making him available.

    • BK2ATL says:

      Buster’s reaching. They aren’t selling.

      Heath Bell blew a few saves early in the season and seems to have righted the ship. Plus they have the former Leo Nunez, now Juan Carlos Oviedo, coming back to strengthen the bullpen.

      They went out and got Carlos Lee and Bonafacio just returned. The lineup is deeper. Stanton’s injury will obviously hurt.

      The SP is deep and talented with Mark Buerhle, Josh Johnson, Anibel Sanchez, Ricky Nolasco and Carlos Zambrano.

      It’s really just a matter of time. Stanton is going nowhere. It’s so farfetched you’d have to wonder how much bath salts Buster took before writing that.

      • MannyGeee says:

        yeah, I cant see them selling yet. this time next year if they are still flacid, I can see a fire sale… but not 4 months after selling the farm to make Miami a “Baseball Town (C)”

        • BK2ATL says:

          It would probably be Hanley Ramirez or Josh Johnson before Stanton is even considered.

          That being said, I don’t see them selling. In fact, it wouldn’t shock me to see them go on a long winning streak. The talent is certainly there for them to sustain it.

  39. Jacob says:

    to anyone who thinks gardy is not a big guy for the club let me drop a nice fun fact, in 2010 gardy played 150 games with a 3.3 oWAR 3.3 dWAR and 7.0 WAR, the dWAR good for 1st and WAR good for 7th in the league while just .9 behind our very own robbie cano and 1.1 behind Josh Hamilton. Gardy is very underrated.

    • BK2ATL says:

      How is someone underrated, if the team can plug anyone into that slot and still hardly miss a beat? No matter who (Jones/Ibanez/Wise/Nix) they throw into that LF position. Doesn’t “look” as good, but the results bear out that they haven’t “cost” the team any losses.

      How does WAR explain that his team is still winning big without him?

      Sorry if I’m just not buying including Gardner in the same conversation as Josh Hamilton and Robbie Cano. You’re talking about 2 perennial MVP candidates and….our punch-and-judy LF.

      • Jim Is Bored says:

        How do you know what it’s cost? We haven’t seen him out there to know.

        We could be 11-13 games up if he were playing, there’s no way to tell. His opinion is just as valid as yours.

      • MannyGeee says:

        how dare you… If Gardner was in the line up the Yankees would be 152-2 already…

        (yes, they would be so awesome that the entire AL West and Central woulda just forfeited their games out of sheer fear…)

        • BK2ATL says:

          Exactly my point, except it would only be 108-54. We had lost 3 games when he went out for a .667 winning %. So translated over 162 games…..

      • Jacob says:

        Just because they are winning without him does not mean he i not amazing. There are a lot of plays gardy would have made that ibanez/nix/wise did not make that cost runs that possibly cost us a win or two and a few more games up in the division or maybe gardy gets a stolen base in a place the others coukd not and the nxt batter gets a hit that would score gardy but not the others. There are a lot of things that would possibly be etter with gardy, or not it i pure thought and speculation and in my thoughts with gary we wpuld be doing better, maybe a few wins maybe a lot more wins.

      • Ted Nelson says:

        That’s not valid logic. The Yankees have had plenty of key injuries over the years and still finished first.

        The Rangers usually lose Hamilton for 1/3 of the season, and still finish first.

  40. MattG says:

    I am very surprised to see no mention of David DeJesus here. He’s been talked about for years when the Yankees had no need of a backup CF, now that they need one, no mention? Is he hurt or something? Is he suddenly below replacement level?

    I honestly don’t know. I came here to get the scoop.

    • BK2ATL says:

      He signed with Chicago last offseason at 2 yrs/$10 million + 2014 option.

      He hasn’t done much of note this year , even playing in Wrigley. Decent numbers. Horrible splits vs. LH. Seems like his numbers are going in a downward path, not sure why.

      I know he played LF in KC, now RF in Chicago, but can fill in in CF too.

      Depends on what Theo wants in return. He’s a local kid, so wouldn’t be a bad thing to bring him back home.

      • MannyGeee says:

        if Theo was just trying to shed salary, then I think he would be a nice get. If for no other reason a backup CF/4OF for the future

        • BK2ATL says:

          Definitely a serviceable piece and can take over the full-time LH platoon in LF to complement Jones.

          Ibanez could just DH.

          DeJesus or Wise could spell Grandy more often, as well as serve as the late inning corner OF defensive replacement as needed.

          If it only costs a C-level or below prospect and we take on the salary, I wouldn’t be opposed. I liked what he was doing in KC. But then again, we could stand pat and I’d be okay with it as well.

  41. Jonathan says:

    I think the most important part of this is getting Granderson some freaking rest. We can hold off with what we have and marginal upgrades but he’s clearly tired. He doesn’t run anymore and his defense has suffered tremendously. If Wise is going to be almost strictly a defensive replacement then we need to find someone who can legitimately give Granderson some rest. Joe has hammered some guys into the ground recently. Martin last year, ARod off hip surgery in 2009 and Jeter/Granderson this year (after the Nunez injury). For a guy who understands the value of keeping his bullpen fresh, even if it costs him a game or two down the line, so his entire pen isn’t gassed in October he doesn’t seem to be willing to do the same thing with position players. I understand at the start of the year when Jeter/Granderson were literally the only two hitting but the team has come around and Wise/Nix have been okay. I’d like to see Granderson get a few days off. Unfortunately I think Joe’s counting his AS break as that. I would love to see just one game of:


    with CC starting and Rivera closing.

    We already have no idea wtf we’re going to do at catcher next year since Martin is AWFUL and Romine can’t stay healthy. Now we’re possibly down both corner OFers for next year if the TMJ comes. Like everyone else, I was hoping Gardner came back and we were able to trade for Upton or Stanton (seriously? why are these guys even slightly available?) to play RF. Then we could be ok with a catcher that doesn’t hit well if our OF was Gardner/Grandy/one of Upton or Stanton. The infield would be set and depending on who it took to get one of the RFers We’d have CC (hopefully Pineda)/Nova/Hughes/Phelps/Pettitte or Kuroda or both coming back and the team would be set. Now I dunno what we’re going to do in the outfield for this year or next. No…..clue. Pray Swish accepts arbitration with a big FA OF crop available and Gardner can come back this year?

    It’s weird that we could really use a stud C/OF/SP and there are some available to be FA’s but that’s not really an option for us anymore. A few years ago we’d be looking at Napoli/Hamilton/Hamels or Greinke. Now we shop in the bargain bin. Not that it’s the wrong strategy but it’ll take some time to get used to us not just filling holes withe elite (and not so elite) FA’s.

    • Ted Nelson says:

      If this were the case, Granderson would have been running and a good defender early in the season… and be fading. He was slow from the start of the season. I think it’s more likely he’s just lost a step than tired. He routinely plays ~160 games.

      • Preston says:

        If Gardner were healthy it would be clearly beneficial for the team to move Granderson to LF. He would still probably be a plus defender in the corner, and he probably wouldn’t get banged up as much as he does in CF, which might help his offense. Hopefully it’s something they will consider next season.

        • Ted Nelson says:

          Yeah, the argument seemed to be that Granderson went back on balls better… but if he’s lost a step that probably doesn’t matter.

          Might not work, but proclaiming he’s no longer physically fit for CF might also lower his value a bit if they haven’t re-signed him. Otherwise it’s just sort of a threat that eventually he’ll have to move.

      • BK2ATL says:

        I don’t think that he’s lost a step. I mean, he’s rarely even trying. It might be by design to keep him fresh and not putting him in any further situations to get injured. Moreso, he just isn’t running since he’s had Cano, A-Rod and Tex hitting behind him.

        When he was racking up higher SB numbers in Detroit, he was doing so out of the leadoff or 9th spot.

        • Ted Nelson says:

          He’s not trying in CF? That’s sort of a problem, no?

          • BK2ATL says:

            I was specifically referring to SB.

            I think we saw him put on a defensive display in CF on Sunday. If it were Trout who made the exact same plays, we wouldn’t have heard the end of it.

            I don’t think he lost a step. He just plays a shallow CF by team design. When something doesn’t go according to that plan, the CF will catch the heat for “being out of place” or not fast enough to catch up to a liner that wasn’t supposed to be hit there (planned pitch spot missed, etc.)…. Ibanez and Jones aren’t the fastest LF in MLB, so it is what it is.

            We haven’t been truly burned by our OF defense yet. So I don’t think it’s as big a concern as we’re making it out to be. If I recall, our overall defense is 4th-rated in MLB. I don’t know what that means, but it can’t be bad.

            • Ted Nelson says:

              Granderson’s defense has graded out poorly this season. He’s not running. He’s in his 30s. If he hasn’t lost a step yet, it’s probably coming very soon.

              I’m not sure that a running catch says much about a guy’s speed. Ibanez makes the occasional running catch, too, it’s just on plays that Gardner or someone would have been waiting under the ball.

              • BK2ATL says:

                He’s 31…. Clearly on the rapid downslide….

                He can run, he’s just not. Maybe after the season Girardi will come clean, kinda like how he did on CF positioning last year. Grandy doesn’t make statements on managerial decisions. So it won’t leak from him.

                I’m just purely guessing that with him probably playing 158 games in CF and hitting 25 HRs (so far) with a .354 OBP, they don’t want to screw it up by needlessly putting him in a position to expose him to injury, as has happened around the league lately. They have NO ONE in the system right now that can replace the package of skills that Grandy brings to the team. As we’ve seen so far, we’re more than able to weather the Gardner absence however.

                There were more than one catch that day. But as stated, if it were Trout, you’d have heard about them more.

                You’re just assuming Gardner’s under that. Currently, he’s on the DL with no idea of when he’ll return. And still we have the 4th ranked defense in MLB with out him.

                • Ted Nelson says:

                  Speed tends to go a whole lot before hand-eye or power. Most players absolutely will lose a step in their early 30s.

                  He is not running balls down in CF. That’s the problem. You keep ignoring it, and pretending like somehow you have timed him in the 40 or something.

                  “They have NO ONE in the system right now that can replace the package of skills that Grandy brings to the team. As we’ve seen so far, we’re more than able to weather the Gardner absence however.”

                  This is laughable. If Granderson were hurt instead of Gardner they’d almost definitely be in 1st place as well. Gardner would be in CF and the same situation would exist in CF. Their offense would suffer a bit, but they have a 9 game lead in the division right now. You think Granderson is 9 games better than Gardner in ~1/2 a season? ~18 games better over a season?

                  “There were more than one catch that day. But as stated, if it were Trout, you’d have heard about them more.”

                  Again… highlight catches are not a way to judge defensive contribution. If he was a step faster, they might be routine plays.

                  “And still we have the 4th ranked defense in MLB with out him.”

                  Based on what metric? They are 7th from the bottom according to fangraphs. Gradnerson is the worst qualifying CF in the league defensively according to fangraphs by a HUGE margin.

    • Ted Nelson says:


  42. Ted Nelson says:

    Yankees should try to bide their time, they don’t “have to” trade for someone. They should make a definitive decision on Gardner one way or another, or try to wait till the deadline (keeping tabs on the guys they’re interested in, in case they move before then). Whichever comes first.

    They don’t know what they need until then. If they trade for (and therefore pay for) a starting OF rental (like Victorino) and then Gardy comes back fine… that would be a big waste of resources. Short-term the depth would be nice, but you’d be giving up one or more long-term assets for a marginal short-term gain. Ibanez and Jones are pretty strong 4th/5th OFs. You’d probably have to cut one, though, when Gardner returns or trade him if there’s any market.

    On the other hand, say they pay a reasonable price for a Wise upgrade… then Gardner gets shut down for the season… they might want to make another trade and probably cut the guy they just gave up something to get…

    • Preston says:

      I agree that trading for a rental that isn’t a clear upgrade before we know whether or not we’ll get Gardner back is a waste. The one player available that makes sense for all contingencies is Justin Upton. He’s a huge upgrade over what we have in LF. If Gardner comes back we can play him and Gardner in the OF and move Swisher to the DH, which would make our offense monstrous. And it makes sense long term because he’s a cost controlled, young star caliber player.
      I live in Arizona and it’s seems pretty obvious that the team wants to make a move. For whatever reason Upton has never been popular. The fan base doesn’t appreciate the player he is and boos him. Ownership has made publicly derisive comments. They have OF depth and think that they’ll be fine moving Parra into RF and can still compete if they get some major league pieces for Upton.
      David Phelps could help their staff immediately, and Nunez could contribute at 3b (and move to SS to replace Drew next season). So the D-backs could still pretend to be competing this year. We would also have to include two of our top prospects (Austin, Sanchez, Williams and Banuelos) to go with it. But this is the kind of player I’m willing to make that kind of deal for.

      • BK2ATL says:

        I’m truly intrigued about this whole Justin Upton deal. I mean, is he getting into trouble locally or something? Locker room issues? I’ve read about possibly a chronic left shoulder issue, but I don’t think that’s it either. Has Upton said anything publicly?

        Just seems extremely strange for them to have this kid on the market. While Parra might replace him in RF, they don’t have anyone currently to make up for the offensive threat that he is in the middle of that lineup.

        When mgmt came out with the divisive comments about him, it had to have pretty much made that locker room extremely uncomfortable, similar to the Boston/Valentine deal. They’s already called out Stephen Drew for being injured. And I don’t think Arizona will get what they think he’s worth as they’ve already soiled the water for J Upton.

      • Ted Nelson says:

        I would consider it, but it’s a lot to pay. Have to be confident that Upton’s struggles are temporary. I have no idea what the cause is, so I have no idea.

        • Preston says:

          The local media (who often make things up to fill the rag that is the Arizona Republic) seem to think it’s a lingering thumb issue sapping his power. The reason I’m still sold on him is that the only person who is unequivocally behind him is Kirk Gibson, who is decidedly old school and wouldn’t constantly stick up for a 24 yo kid if his struggles were work ethic related or he was a club house problem.

  43. BK2ATL says:

    Joel Sherman posted his list of potential targets with the pros/cons associated with each.


    Shane Victorino
    Carlos Quentin
    Coco Crisp
    Vernon Wells
    Denard Span
    Chris Young
    Michael Cuddyer
    Will Venable
    Mark Kotsay
    Alfonso Soriano
    Brian LaHair

    His ultimate choice boiled down

    1. Victorino
    2. Standing pat
    3. Venable

  44. TH says:

    Trade all the gold for Jean Carlo Stanton.

  45. panos says:

    Russo is having a great year in 3a. I would like to see him on Yankees.

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