Labor Day Open Thread

Update: Cano suffered hip injury in eighth inning
Aardsma allows four runs in latest minor league rehab outing
Enjoy the view from first while you can. (J. Meric/Getty)

I have a really hard time seeing how the Yankees will leave Tampa with anything more than a tie for the AL East lead in two days. They’re playing like absolute crap in almost every aspect of the game, and are compounding the problem with mental errors and in some cases, a lack of hustle. The AL East lead has dwindled from ten games to one game in the span of six weeks, and in no way is that a fluke. It’s completely deserved.

Anyway, I sincerely hope you enjoy your Labor Day evening. If you have some time to kill, use this as you open thread. MLB Network will air a game later tonight, but who you see depends on where you live. There’s also some college football going on as well, but talk about whatever you like here. Go nuts.

Update: Cano suffered hip injury in eighth inning
Aardsma allows four runs in latest minor league rehab outing
  • Mike Stanley

    This blows, sir.

  • Matt :: Sec110

    terrible play the last 6 weeks or so. I totally agree when you said they deserve this.

    Also, SBTB marathon on MTV2 right now.

  • Jimmy McNulty

    I think the 2008 team might be better than this squad. I’m glad to see the fan confidence poll is coming back around, though. They’re playing like dogshit, they’re old, the pitching staff can’t prop up the offense, and they’re hurt everywhere. Help is on the way? The Calvary will show up and find the units all dead and bloody with armies from Tampa, Baltimore, and Oakland marching on to playing in October.

    Fucking Pathetic.

    • Kempire Strikes Back

      Don’t forget Texas who had their awful stretch of play in July/August but are starting to come around now like they are supposed to. I guess I’ll just have to root for the NL to win the World Series again.

  • dan2

    kick ass and sit slumpers.
    utilize youth as much as possible because they care a lot. They are not convinced like others that all will work out.
    Show tapes of Sox and Braves games in September of 2011.
    Get George out of cold storage

  • IPK for Tim Reddings (formerly Brian S.)

    Ramon Flores=beast

    • Laz

      Definetely. 20 years old and now in AA, he hopefully can replace granderson, or one of the other Tampa outfielders.


    I think it’s over. The Os and Rays are playing inspired baseball and the Yankees are dead fish. Cano doesn’t hustle, nobody gets the big hit when we need it. The only big hits we’ve gotten recently were from Nunez and Dickerson. The manager loses games we should win.

    That being said, Cobb is not a good pitcher and Hiroki is going on Wed. We’ll see what this team is made of over the next 2 days, but I’m afraid we already have our answer.

    • DC

      I’m sure in about 15 minutes you’ll think they can win the WS.

    • Need Pitching & Hitting

      Rays lost 6 of 9 before today. Not exactly inspired baseball. The Yankees are just playing worse.

  • Kevin

    The Braves fell apart in 2011 in large part because they ran their bullpen into the ground.
    As for what’s happened play crappy and this is what happens.

  • paul a

    Cano should be carrying this team, instead hes sinking them…..And he wants that mega contract…I’m sorry to say some asshole owner will give it to him.

    • DC

      Cano is sinking the team? The intelligence level keeps falling around here.

      • Dean Winters

        Not just here Cano is getting killed on different board. He’s lazy, we should trade him, he’s not smart, etc

        • Facepalm

          To 2008! (where we should have traded him to avoid this mess)

      • stuart a

        cano stinks. the guy has 71 rbi’s and is terrible wit hRISP. Look it up…

        • jesse

          lol RBI

        • DC

          Sorry ….he’s …no Ike Davis….


    • Laz

      I think he is going to price himself away. He is a good player, but I doubt he is going to be anything but average in a few years.

    • Facepalm

      Best player on team = dropping ball.

      WAR Leaders

      M.Trout 9.3
      J.Verlander 6.2
      R.Cano 6.1
      M.Cabrera 5.8
      F.Hernandez 5.5

  • Robert

    Old age and injuries go hand and hand.We are old we are injured we are done.
    Cant wait for the class of 2014. Austin,Willaims,Slade,Sanchez and the gang to the rescue…..
    Also When will Robby Cano learn to hustle…..
    2014 lineup
    AROD because we have too
    TEX because we have too
    Jeter Because we have too and he deserves it

    All other spots should go to the farm system I am a life long Yankee fan and am tired of High priced long term contracts!!!!

    The game has changed Tampa Baltimore using there minor league system to over take us!!!

    • Facepalm

      Cant wait for the class of 2014. Austin,Willaims,Slade,Sanchez and the gang to the rescue…..

      You should be a scout.

      Also When will Robby Cano learn to hustle

      What does hustle look like and why do you care? He hits and gets to the ball. Maybe we should trade for Pedroia.

      Jeter Because we have too and he deserves it

      TROO YANK33! (until he slumps)

      The game has changed Tampa Baltimore using there minor league system to over take us!!!

      The game has come a long way since 1996.

      • WHIPunk

        Your snideness is appalling, everyone has a right to their own opinion. Also why should we care if Cano hustles? I haven’t seen a dumber question than that since I watched family feud. The man doesn’t run out double-plays or ground balls at a consistent rate, if you don’t see that, then you haven’t been watching the games.

        • WHIPunk

          Again is it so hard for members of this site to use criticism in an adult matter, it’s not that hard and it might show that you have a elementary school diploma.

          • Facepalm

            Using insults and throwing a fit when a game doesn’t go your way is… adult.

            • The Troll

              I agree. You’re a dick. Simple.

          • Rainbow connection

            There are no members.

            • WHIPunk

              You know what I mean, “regular visitors” if you will.

        • Facepalm

          Not every opinion is right. Most players do not run out ground balls. But I understand what your saying, the Yanks need more gritty players.

          • WHIPunk

            An opinion is neither right nor wrong, it’s an opinion, what part that do you not understand? It’s all subjective.

            • WHIPunk

              of that* I don’t mean to single you out, but I see people retorting to other posters in such a holier than thou attitude way too often.

              • Facepalm

                You’re coming to a board and supporting people who insult players routinely, then you ask for people to act like adults right after saying “I haven’t seen a dumber question than that since I watched family feud.” Am I supposed to take your request for maturity (a holier than thou stance) seriously? I on the other hand, do not care about maturity on the internet, especially when people are bridge jumping from first place. That’s the problem, it is absurd to bridge jump almost every day like these people do. If they didn’t want to be ridiculed, they should back up what they say with fact instead of never responding to commenters counterpoints.

                • WHIPunk

                  I made a mistake with that comment and I apologize, shouldn’t have wrote it, but I recognize when I mess up and own up to it.

              • Facepalm

                I’ll also post this LONG POST.

                Most of those people, are not people, they are trolls. They don’t get treated the same way as the others because the others want to have a mature analytical discussion about baseball, not emotionally react to things and post with skewed information like some sort of baseball sociopath. This place, that I’ve lurked for about five years at, is the best Yankees site on the internet and I do not want to see it turn into LoHud.

                When you make a comment like “Robinson Cano isn’t carrying the team” and I post that he is the third best player in baseball and thus is probably the best player on his team and in turn is holding up his team, your (non existent) evidence does not hold up against mine, thus your opinion has been beaten by logic. The opinion is (at least for now) wrong. See, you have to PROVE opinions for them to be undebatable and if you have a habit of never doing that, nobody will take you seriously.

                I admire the stance, I really do, but in regards to carrying this on, I said my say, I’m done.

            • Facepalm

              It is presenting data as you see it with insufficient evidence. Yes, Opinions can be wrong, they are not substitute for fact. Opinions can be argued, I should not have to pull my punches to respect someone “opinion” because as you said it’s subjective.

              • Facepalm

                typo laden, but you get it.

                • WHIPunk

                  I got it, I don’t agree with you, but at least you typed a well thought out response.

                  • WHIPunk

                    Also I believe some of these “trolls” you might be referencing are just younger kids, it’s better to teach them how to be mature (in my opinion) rather than feed into their hyper-emotions, but to each his own. Have a good night man, didn’t mean to take anything out on you, which I probably did, so I apologize.

    • Laz

      I’m really excited about the outfield of the future. They have williams, Austin, Flores, Heathcott. Who could all be solid outfielders for the team. They will also still have Gardner under control. I really wish they would work nunez in more to the team. They really don’t have that speed on the basepaths. Jeter and Ichiro really don’t have it anymore.

      • Dean Winters

        Who could all be solid outfielders for the team.


        What are the chances that happens?

      • Facepalm

        What is “solid” to you? Do you like it when Nunez makes tons of errors?

    • Mike

      A few years ago we tought AJax and Montero would be part of the NYY, now they’re gone.

      It is hard to name who was the last “minor leaguer of the year” at AAA/AA for the Yankees that next year played full time with the team.

      Sorry to burst your bubble but the Yanks will never give a chance to a young player, even if they had Trout and Strassburg in AAA they would deem them “not ready” and would make them wait 2-3 years and would later trade them.

      • Need Pitching & Hitting

        “Yanks will never give a chance to a young player”

        Cano, Gardner, Melky, Hughes, Nova, Robertson, Wang, Joba

        Never got a chance. I wonder what could have been.

      • DC

        So the Yankees are at fault for not winning “minor leaguer of the year” each year? How does any team stand up to that criteria?

        As far as your opinion if they had Trout and Strasberg, it is JUST your opinion, however wrong it is. Tell me one player the Yankees have had on the Trout/Strasberg level that wasted away in the minors or was traded.

  • Kramerica Industries

    Three weeks ago, this team nearly swept four games from the Texas Rangers.

    WTF happened to that team?

    • Kempire Strikes Back


    • smurfy

      started in Chicago: the first night, the Sox were ashamed to be on the same field. The next game, something changed. Think it was that damn farmhand, Quintana.

      • Kramerica Industries

        1) White Sox swept that series, so I’m not sure why the Sox would be ashamed to be on the same field. Though I might be mistranslating that.

        2) Quintana didn’t start in that series. Floyd, Liriano, Sale.

    • stuart a

      no offense. no big hits. pitching has been about the same.

      offense has gone on vacation and literally no one has stepped up…

      they have no 1 offensively who scares the other team, or hits good pitching.. cano hits good pitching as long as no 1 is on base.

      • Kramerica Industries

        All I know is:

        There’s playing bad baseball.

        There’s playing bad baseball and losing to bad players.

        Then, there’s playing bad baseball and losing to Chris freakin’ Gimenez. That’s abysmal. A third string catcher, up only because it’s September, and he goes 2-3 with 2 RBI, including the GW hit in the 8th inning. You can’t make that shit up.

  • OMG! Bagels!

    When they first started this slide I thought about collapse but couldn’t imagine the Yankees in collapse, well not in the past, say 8 years. I have given them a lot of credit for staying in first despite the injuries. I don’t know if it’s all caught up, if the lead went to their head or WTF is going on. I’m sort of surprised to see them playing so badly. The injuries aren’t causing a lot of that. And the injuries aren’t because they’re “old.” Mariano’s was a freak accident, Gardy isn’t old, CC isn’t old…etc. Grandy needed a day off long ago and Jeter streaks. He seems to be GIDPing again.

    We’ll see if they surge back. There’s a group on here that thinks they’re done but there’s also a group on here that gives up in the first inning of game threads. So we’ll see.

    I got 2008 as Girardi was new and there was so much emotion of that year with the closing of the Stadium and think that between the All-Star Game at YSII and the great last game of that season, we were able to forgive their missing the playoffs. If they miss this year, I don’t know what I would think.

    A friend of mine who is a season ticket holder says playoff ticket payment is due by Friday and if they don’t win the next 2 days, he’s not paying for them. For me, that’s pretty intense. I’m not quite that bad (I offered to pay for them but he is saying “NO I NEED TO SEND A MESSAGE.” Okay guy…he’s pretty upset but I don’t think that the Yankees are going to go “Oh Joe Blow didn’t pay for his post season tickets! We have to DO something!)

    • Rainbow connection

      What kind of message does it send? ‘$200 million isn’t enough’?

      • OMG! Bagels!

        I know. Not sure. But most of my season ticket holder friends have been taking a beating on their tickets this year (all selling for less than face value) so I think their frustration is with that as well since they tend to make it up in the post season.

  • Effthisnoise

    The sad thing is, it’s not like any of these other teams including the rays are running scary lineups out onto the field. Diffence is, these players are getting big hits in big moments. Today gimenez beat the yanks. Injuries or not, the yanks still have a better lineup most days than most other clubs. Call it choking, bad management, a collapse, bad luck, lack of hustle. Bottom line is, this team needs to decide to get up, dust itself off and hit back.

  • Kramerica Industries

    Here’s today’s eye-gouging fun stat of the day:

    Mariners with Ichiro this season: 42-55
    Mariners without Ichiro: 24-15

    Yankees without Ichiro this season: 57-39
    Yankees with Ichiro this season: 19-19

    So Ichiro’s teams, with him not there, are 81-54. With him, they are 61-74. That’s twenty games difference.

    • DT

      Obviously it’s all ichiro’s fault

      • Facepalm

        Seattle knew!

  • Pasta Stumbling Sojo

    Man, even Mike is letting all this get to him: “I have a really hard time seeing how the Yankees will leave Tampa with anything more than a tie for the AL East lead in two days.” I actually think it’s pretty likely that the Yankees and Orioles will each split the next two games. At the very least, I don’t have a hard time seeing that happening.

    (By the way, Vegas slightly favors the Rays tomorrow, and also slightly favors Toronto against the Orioles.)

  • WHIPunk

    Updates chance for Yankees to win the division, wild card, total playoff probability.

    Division- 60.5%
    Wild Card- 24.4%
    Playoffs- 84.9 %

    Again comparing this to where we were on July 27th:

    Division- 90.1%
    Wild Card- 5.4%
    Playoffs- 95.6%


    • Kramerica Industries

      At least their wild card chances are better, eh?

      • DC


  • paul

    bottom line: Anybody who has played baseball at any level, including little league, knows that if the winning run is at second base,and you are an infielder, you make sure that you do everything in your power to keep the ball from getting into the outfield. Cano’s “injury” is probably his way to deflect attention from that fundamental fact.I am not stupid enough to suggest letting him walk after next year, but his lack of effort at times is seriously frustrating.

  • JobaWockeeZ

    On the bright side our collapse won’t take until the last day of the season.

    And on the brighter side the Super Bowl champions are playing on Wednesday.

  • Erica

    Goodness, we are all a bunch of sad pandas. Even I, the eternal Yankees optimist, have been feeling really down about this team. I don’t know. I was at Saturday’s game and… it was stressful, to say the least.

    I haven’t watched the rest of the games this weekend, thanks to Labor Day Weekend obligations. That may be for the best.

    All these freak injuries to the team this year… I don’t know. I don’t know what’s going on.

    (Is it bad to admit that I can’t wait for football to start? Probably is.)

    • Paul VuvuZuvella

      Well, they’re playing like crap and might just …um…really suck. Whatever. It’s baseball. C’est la vie.

      • Erica

        Exactly. Not the worst problem in life, of course, but it’s always a crappy feeling when you know they’re better than what they’re producing.

        • Paul VuvuZuvella

          Oh, definitely a crappy feeling. Didn’t mean to discount that at all.

          • Erica

            No worries!

            I’m not Greg, so I WILL be able to move on! :P

  • LarryM.,Fl.

    I went to the game at the Trop this PM. CC was Ok. I had good seats. Right behind home plate, upper level boxes section 301 if anyone is looking to buy seats in the future. For twenty bucks you will not believe your watching the Yankees for the price.

    Everyone is barking at Cano. I watched him cover ground on every defensive play. The guy has range, gold glove and hustles on defense. He made great contact on two of his AB’s absolute ropes. On another handcuffed Langoria on a low liner which he was thrown out even after it got away from Langoria. Robbie does not run out infield balls. Its a known fact. Its annoying to me as a fan and one who has played the game in college, wood bat era.

    Ichiro look absolutely helpless at the plate. Martin hits the wall in RF. It may have gone out in YS. Ichiro does not advance the runner forgot what he did. The team is just waiting for the big play. I blame Girardi and Cashman. Even with the injuries Girardi has no players throughout the lineup who will or can play small ball. Whats wrong with being in a funk as a team and advancing runners. Tampa was dumping little flares all over the place. Upton’s HR was legit. Cashman’s plan with Jones and Ibanez on paper is very good but plans over the course of the season get thrown out with injuries, Dickerson can field 10 times better than Ibanez and maybe 20 times better than Jones and hit as well as these guys. Why was Dickerson not with the big club when he wasn’t on the DL especially watching Jones and Ibanez butcher boy the OF.

    Swisher looked like crap when we need him big time he is MIA at times.

    Now the Yanks have their backs against the wall and younger teams are running right through them. These teams are not better than the Yanks just more energy and hunger to win. You can leave a few of the Yanks like Jeter etc. off the $hit list.

    Its a shame but the injuries have finally taken a toll. But I hope the FO has learned a lesson with some of its bench players next year. A little more youth and all around ability. You just can’t bang it over the fence when you need runs. Also, who to sign or trade for in the off season.

    • Mike

      The front office and the Boss sons only care for one thing: money.

      Will the yankees have 2 million people in attendance? Yes, then the FO and the owners are happy.

      Will the yankees have profits from YES Network? Yes, then the FO and the owners are happy.

      Will the yankees lose millions of fans due to their mismanagement? No, then the FO and the owners are happy.

      Do they care if in this blog true yankees are criticizing them? No, because their FO and JoeG tells them everything is ok. Everybody is happy.

      • Need Pitching & Hitting

        The FO and owners will not be happy if they only have 2 million fans in attendance.

      • DC

        “Do they care if in this blog true yankees are criticizing them? No, because their FO and JoeG tells them everything is ok. Everybody is happy.”

        Yes, that summarizes every FO staff meeting.

        Hal: I don’t care about the CBA or the budget, what do the commenters at RAB have to say?

        Joe/Cashman: They think everything is “ok”. Everyone is happy.

        Hal: Cool.

  • Magilla Gorilla

    Suzyn, it goes to show that you just can’t predict baseball. I know that I say it every day, but it’s true.

  • pistol pete

    I love all the Cano haters here like there’s a bunch of better second basemen out there. He got 29 hr’s and hits 300 and has an ops over 850, please. We’re paying Arod and Tex $50m per and it’s Cano’s fault, please. He hits and fields better than and second baseman in baseball. He doesn’t always hit in the clutch or run out ground balls so let’s get rid of him and get a 250 hitter who hits 8 hr’s a year but hustles like hell.

    • Mike

      Granderson fields and hits tons of homeruns, and still is crap.

      A 0.250 hitter who hustles and makes all the little plays is far better than a player who only pads his stats.

      • DC

        You seriously need to get a grip on your assessment of Cano.

        • pistol pete

          Cano is 11th in all of baseball in ops over 900, the next best second baseman is 30th at 830 and the third is 65th at 790. So who are you going to replace Cano with, you guys are absolutely clueless. Find me a better second baseman, really find one you’d rather have than Cano.

          • DC

            That was directed at Mike’s comment, Pete. You and I are in agreement about Cano.

  • Chilango

    It’s not just that they’re playing badly. They have fundamental problems that are catching up with them: Age and injuries (speaks for itself), two guys hitting over .300, the rest striking out way too much, NEVER playing small ball, like maybe an occasional double steal like TB did today). The lefties swing for the fences and invariably hit into the shift (explains why BaBIP is so skewed). The RISPFAIL can not just be bad luck at this stage of the season. Pathetic offense. On the other side, we have basically a two man rotation, no middle relief, a setup guy who’s 0-5 and hasn’t been the same since coming off the DL and a closer who is good but far from lights out. We’re saddled with Tex and KRoid (I don’t give a shit if he’s a GG, Tex and Swisher are rally killers and ARod at .260/.330 is not worth the money). Scrap this overpaid, overhyped and underperforming team and start over. The real fans will wait a few years for the talent to emerge.

    • TomH

      “The real fans will wait a few years for the talent to emerge.”

      Maybe, but there aren’t enough of them to pay the bills.

    • DT

      The RISPfail actually is partially bad luck. They actually hit well with RISP today…except the problem is they haven’t gotten many guys on base to RISP that much recently. When they had they’ve sucked mostly. *coughSwisherCanocough*

    • Need Pitching & Hitting

      I think your expectations are a tad unrealistic.

      “Two guys hitting over .300” – There are only 24 qualified MLB players hitting at least .300 (and one of those is suspended for PED’s). Most teams have fewer players hitting over .300.

      “Basically a two-man rotation” – Hughes would be in virtually any MLB rotation. Phelps and Garcia are both probably solid enough to hold down the 5th spot in just about any rotation. They are missing a solid #3 starter, primarily because they have 2 pitchers with that level of ability on the DL.

      “Setup guy who’s 0-5 and hasn’t been the same since coming off the DL” – he hasn’t been quite as good, but he’s still one of the top setup men in the game. Pre DL: 2.92 ERA, 13.87 K/9, 3.65 BB/9, opponents hitting 186/265/279. Post DL (before today): 1.97 ERA, 10.13 K/9, 3.09 BB/9, opponents hitting 205/279/308

      “A closer who is good, but not lights out” – he’s been one of the best closers in baseball. We’ve all been spoiled by Mo.

      “Tex and Swisher are rally killers” – Tex has driven in 16% of the runners on base in his PA’s, Swisher 18%. Those are the two highest percentages of the everyday players on the team. Others on the team have been much worse in that regard than Swisher or Tex.

      • CP

        They are missing a solid #3 starter, primarily because they have 2 pitchers with that level of ability on the DL.

        Actually, three pitchers: Pettitte, Nova and Pineda

        Yes, Pineda hasn’t pitched at all this year, but he was a key piece of the puzzle coming into the year.

        • Need Pitching & Hitting

          I actually meant Pineda and Pettitte.
          I don’t see Nova as a #3, though I hope he can develop into one eventually.

      • DC

        Chilango doesn’t handle facts well.

      • joe

        “I think your expectations are a tad unrealistic.” Really because I don’t think having more guys hit over 300 is unrealistic expectation not when the Yankees hit well over 200 homeruns every season which is even more of an unrealistic expectation based on the league. So you mean to tell me that the Yankees can achieve a very difficult feat hitting over 200 homers for the season, but can’t achieve a difficult feat of having a few more 300 hitters? Tigers have 4 300 hitters which are Dirks, Cabrera, Jackson, and Fielder. Texas has 2 hitters hitting 300, but also has 2 hitters hitting in the 290s which are Hamilton and Andrus. If both have one little hot streak they’ll be hitting 300 or higher. The point is while it may be a difficult expectation, it shouldn’t be unrealistic if the Yankees are already achieving one unrealistic expectation already. I want more Austin Jackson type players that hits for average power and a high average.

        • Need Pitching & Hitting

          I would like more high average hitters as well. My only point was they are difficult to find. Having 2 of them is a relative achievement. Like I said only 24 .300 hitters, but there are 41 hitters with at least 20 HR’s already. Of the list of .300 hitters, how many were reasonably available to the Yankees and would fill a logical position of need? Having 2 guys hitting over .300 is actually pretty good relative to the lead. Obviously more would be better.

        • Mike Axisa

          I’m happy the Tigers have four .300 hitters. Two of them are among the five best hitters on the planet and cost a combined $350M to sign, but otherwise they’ve only scored ~40 fewer runs than the Yankees. Working out great.

      • Chilango

        OK, our lineup is solid. That’s a relief.

        Hughes would be in any AVERAGE team’s rotation. Not virtually any team’s. Same for Freddy. Nova is a work in progress. I think I mentioned the injuries so the fact that we’re missing a # 3 starter due to same is no contradiction of my claim about the rotation.

        Surprised to see the stats post DL on Robbie. I thought they were worse.

        OK. Sori is very good. Only 3 (4?) blown saves.

        And Tex and Swish are worth every penny. They don’t strike out or hit into the shift too much. I stand corrected.

        Wow, from what you say, I just can’t believe that we’re playing .500 ball since the All-Star Break.

        • Mike Axisa

          Again with Teixeira striking out. Would it kill you to look up the facts before making a stupid comment? Oh the horrors of a 16% strikeout rate, that’s only 4% below the league average! Fuck, do some research already.

          • Chilango

            I meant Swisher strikes out too much: 24%

            As for Tex:

            WRO: .259/.345
            WRISP: .237/.348
            WRISP/2out: .113/.242

            And why are you comparing these presumably “super” players to the league average?

            • Mike Axisa

              The whole “they don’t strike out or hit into the shift too much” led me to believe you were talking about Teixeira striking out too much as well, a point you’ve tried to pass off as fact several times before.

              Also, you presented stats that in no way back up your argument. Might as well have told me what Teixeira had for breakfast.

              And who called them “super,” other than you just now?

              • Chilango

                My argument about Texeira is that he’s overrated and overpaid. His numbers with runners on and in scoring position are not that good and of the last three seasons, his best avg/OBP was .256/.365. This year they are .255/.335

                Overrated overpaid.

              • Chilango

                Still don’t know why you’d compare Nick to the league avg. What’s his ranking among all hitters with WARs above 2? Among all 2 hole hitters? Among all 2 hole hitters in division leading teams? These stats would be more informative.

                • Need Pitching & Hitting

                  You rank according to league average because it’s an easy, standard reference point. The idea is to have as many better than average players as possible, and have them as far above average as possible. Ranking according to #2 hitters would be difficult because players change lineup spots. Ranking according to WAR over 2 would be fairly useless because it wouldn’t make much sense to for example compare Nicks offense to someone who’s WAR is over 2 because of defense or positional value.
                  FWIW, the league is hitting 262/321/393 from the #2 spot. Swisher is hitting a considerably better 271/356/480 overall and 277/365/527 batting second this season. Of today’s 2 hole hitters on division leading teams: Swisher – 271/356/480 123 wRC+, Youkilis – 253/340/418 – 105 wRC+, Andrus 301/365/418 105 wRC+, Harper – 254/324/431 105 wRC+, Stubbs 221/287/359 79 wRC+, Scutaro 282/327/375 84 wRC+. Swisher has been better overall offensively than all of them.

                  Tex is definitely overpaid. I’m not sure who you think overrates him. I think everyone has settled on him no longer being elite offensively.

                  • Chilango

                    Works for me. No sarcasm. Thanks.

        • Need Pitching & Hitting

          I didn’t say the lineup was solid. Nice strawman though. I said there aren’t that many .300 hitters in the league. There aren’t.

          I’d venture to guess Hughes would be in at least 25 of the rotations in the league. I consider that virtually all.

          Your rotation claim was that they have a 2-man rotation. That’s simply not true, by any reasonable expectation. They just currently have too many back end starters.

          I didn’t say anything about Tex or Swish being worth the money. Another nice strawman. Tex isn’t worth the money. Swisher, however, has been worth what he’s been getting paid, despite his flaws. My only point about Tex and Swish was that they’ve been better at not killing rallies than most of the rest of the team. Swisher has actually been very good wRISP this season.

          “Wow, from what you say, I just can’t believe that we’re playing .500 ball since the All-Star Break.”

          Nothing I’ve said has anything to do with their record since the break. They aren’t playing like shit because they have only 2 .300 hitters. The offense is struggling because they aren’t hitting wRISP and they have too many shitty and slumping hitters in the current lineup. Plenty of teams have fewer .300 hitters and are playing better. They aren’t .500 since the break because of Soriano or DRob. Overall they have been plenty good enough. It’s the rest of the bullpen that has been a disaster, as you referenced.
          I didn’t in any way say their aren’t big problems that need to be fixed. I just found some (certainly not all) of your criticisms as being based on an unrealistic expectation level.

          • Chilango

            The logical fallacies were sarcasm at its worst. Of course I know what you meant. I do think a division leader might expect to have a .300 hitter or two, or even a few in the .270-.300 range. Among the everyday players Swisher (.271) is the only one in this range. Chavy is at .291 you may want to include him.

            • DT

              Does Cano, Jeter, Arod not count towards your criteria?

              • DT

                For comparison: Baltimore has one player hitting .300, one player at .280’s and that’s it

                Texas: 2 .300+ hitters, 2 .290+ hitters

                Detriot: 3 .300 hitters, 1 guy at .270’s, one guy on the border of .270

                White sox: 1 .300 hitter, 3 guys in the .280-.270 range.

                Our line up in terms of Batting average isn’t that much off.

              • Chilango

                ARod has been out, Jetr and Cano are over .300. I was referring to the .270-.290 range

  • CapitalT

    It is a team with many flaws but so are the teams that are chasing them.

  • stuart a

    when Cano is up at bat it does not matter if he is a 2b.. sure he is the best 2b, that is like being the skinniest guy on the offensive line of the Giants, irrelevant.He is not driving in runs and getting hits with RISP.

    RBI’s do matter, they are not absolute but do matter. He is horrible with RISP… Bat him first or 7th if rbi’s do not matter..

    • Facepalm

      Who should hit in his place?

    • DC

      Is “paul a” you’re little brother……?

      He doesn’t….make….sense…..either

      • DC


  • Andy Pettitte’s Fibula (formerly Manny’s BanWagon)

    Just about the only good thing you can say about the Yankees these days is thank god football starts this week.

  • paul a

    Cashmans two biggest deals have come down to this;
    Jackson,Kennedy, Montero for Grandison and Pineda

    • Need Pitching & Hitting

      I’m not sure either one of those would qualify as one of Cashman’s 2 biggest deals. Probably the 2 biggest trades of the last 3 years though.

    • Matt :: Sec110

      Kuroda, Swisher trade, Ibanez, Chavez


      • DT

        He also got Arod for nothing. What ever happen to the prospects we gave up for him? Oh yea no where to be found.ARod getting a stupid extension really is none of Cashman’s doing.

      • IPK for Tim Reddings (formerly Brian S.)

        Ibanez is not a plus are you high?

        • Need Pitching & Hitting

          I suppose if you consider the alternatives of Damon or Matsui, Ibanez could be considered a decent move, but I still wouldn’t count Ibanez as much of a win.

    • DC


    • DT

      No, but even if you bother to evaluate each trade from an objective stand point the Yanks come out pretty even. Montero hasn’t hit this year and has been worth negative overall value and Noesi is terrible. While Pineda ha not pitched yet. That trade is awash basically.

      While Grandy has had one MVP year, 2 Average years with us. Ajaz meanwhile had a average first year, terrible second year and good third year. IPK has been nothing more than an average starter in the NL west outside of one season where he out preformed his peripherals. I highly doubt in the AL east he’ll be anything more than a 3rd or 4th starter.

      • Dean Winters

        That trade is awash basically.


        What?????? How is the trade a wash when one guy is injured with a shoulder injury no less and hasn’t thrown a pitch all season.

  • mtrico

    Brian Cashman really needs to be fired. He has locked this team into overbloated long term deals and has no impact layers in the minors who are even close to major league ready. Couple that with his off the field stuff, and it’s amazing that this guy still has a job. If George was still around and lucid, Cashman would already be long gone.

    • DC

      BLOW UP TEH TEAM!!!!111!!!!11

  • Rocky Road Redemption

    CANO too now?!?!?!?!?

    Where does it end with the injuries!

  • Knoxvillain

    Christian Garcia is finally in the big leagues with the Nationals. Wow. I didn’t see that coming, but I’m really glad for him.

  • AYankeeinTX

    Another loss and no end in sight. The free fall continues. Giradi needs to go.

    • rogue

      I don’t blame Joe.

      I blame Cashman.

      Joe only has to go because Cashman has to go. Girardi didn’t put together a $200+ mil team loaded with old men and platoon players.

      • DT

        Cashman also injured our players and made everyone go into a slump. That asshole.

        • Andy Pettitte’s Fibula (formerly Manny’s BanWagon)

          No but he’s at least partially to blame that AA and AAA are pretty barren of prospects capable of plugging the holes created by these injuries.

          I think it disheartens Yankee fans that the Rays have been able to go toe to toe with the Yankees the last 2 years with about 1/4th the payroll.

          • DC

            Yeah, the Rays years of first round draft picks had nothing to do with that.

            • Dean Winters

              How many times are Yankee fans going to pull that card lol

              • DC

                So you’re saying years of top draft picks had no bearing at all? Very naive.

                • Dean Winters

                  They have bearing but the narrative is every player on their team was a top pick. Outside of Price and Longoria who else was a high pick?

          • DT

            AAA being barren is not cashman’s fault. The fact is the Yanks have drafted low for so many years that it’s amazing they even have a good farm system. Even if we don’t trade any prospect the only guy that would have been useful would have been Montero, who hasn’t hit well in his first year. The only reason the Rays have gone toe to toe is because they sucked for so long they ended up with a ton of high picks like Price, Longoria and etc.

            • DT

              Not to mention how hard it is for prospects to work out. Not everyone is a Mike Trout/Bryce Harper/Stephen Strasburg. Bunch of guys end up like Hocheaver, Smoak or La Porta

              • joe

                Then how has baseball been able to become a younger man’s game if most young player’s haven’t panned out? I realize the Yankees pick from the bottom of the draft, but then again for a decade the Orioles have been picking near the top of the draft and they don’t have a single player on their team that one could consider a bonafied star. They’ve developed a guy like Markakis and Matt Wieters and when they couldn’t develop a young guy, they traded for Adam Jones. I mean Wieters for a hitting catcher has been ok, but I wouldn’t consider him a star at least not yet. But point is the Yankees haven’t even developed a decent player similar to a Markakis. Yes Cano, but that was 7 years ago and if you want to count Gardner, but I’m talking about guys with average power.

                It’s not as difficult as you make it out to be to develop young hitters, but the problem is the Yankees refuse to want to accept that the times have changed in baseball. They never want to risk rolling the dice every once in a while all because of media pressure. Look if it meant the Yankees had to take off a handful of years for them to develop young players, I’m cool with that. The point is there can be long term consequences for teams that don’t attempt to think ahead enough. I would prefer dealing with the possible issues that can come up with a young player, then the possible decline of an older player. I’ll take potential all day every day.

            • Dean Winters

              AAA being barren is not cashman’s fault.

              so long they ended up with a ton of high picks like Price, Longoria and etc.


              Then whose fault is it

              Outside of those two who else is a high pick. Shields was taken in what the 3rd or 4th round

  • rogue

    Go Giants!!!

  • dalelama

    Gutless and heartless…RIP

  • Russ

    Mike , I could have made a more accurate statement about the yanks myself. Is it just me or do they accept losing too easily ? We know about all the injuries , but it makes me sick to see them almost going through the motions at times.

    I still believe they can turn this around but I have to admit that my faith is wavering.

  • hogsmog

    Is it just me, or does every thread on this site lose like 30 IQ points when the team stops winning (hustle? Pitching wins as a stat?)?

    Do people like posting when it gives them a chance to be proud of like, ‘rustic values’ or something that the yankees don’t have because they hit too many home runs? Is that what’s going on? Some sorta redneck schadenfreude bullshit that kicks in when systems running on new ideas fail?

    • WHIPunk

      I think I lost 30 IQ points after reading your rant.

      • WHIPunk

        People are angry, they should be able to express it, some people live and die by the Yankees, who are we to judge?

  • pistol pete

    Wouldn’t be suprised if the Yanks miss the playoffs. They look like they’ve got nothing left. A struggling Ace, Kuroda coming back to earth and the rest of the rotation not scarring anyone. Middle relief is suspect and even Robertson has had a few warts. Injuries have crippled the lineup with Tex, Arod , Grandy, and now Cano with a hip. No Gardy all year and a catcher still hitting under 200. Bench players have come back to earth. We’re in trouble and no help except possibly Andy late in Sept on the way. The Yanks did nothing at the deadline except Ichiro and are running on empty.