Banuelos to have Tommy John surgery this week

October 2, 2012 by Mike Axisa 196 Comments

Via Josh Norris, left-hander and top pitching prospect Manny Banuelos will have Tommy John surgery on Thursday. Brian Cashman confirmed the news and said it’s a new injury. “If we knew he’d needed (surgery) a year ago, he’d have had it done a year ago,” said the GM.

Banuelos, 21, missed essentially all of 2012 with what the team called a “bone bruise” in his elbow, so this news is crummy but not completely unexpected. The worst part is that between this year and next, he’ll have lost two consecutive years of development due to injury. It’s probably not a coincidence that long-time pitching coordinator Billy Connors was recently dismissed given this news. He was working with the team’s rehabbing pitchers this year.

Mike

Oh great
forensic

Good thing they were in denial all season and didn’t just get it taken care of 4 months ago…
- Ted Nelson
  
  It didn’t work out, but that doesn’t mean they took the wrong approach given the info they had. You don’t have nearly enough info to comment intelligently.
  - The Big City of Dreams
    
    So we shouldn’t comment at all then.
Kevin M.

So basically some total incompetence on the Yankees medical staff has cost this kid a year of development. Nice.
- Mister D
  
  Spoiler: Someone is going to get hurt next season. The medical staff will not be able to prevent it, even if they start trying really hard right now.
  - Kevin M.
    
    You’re right…my apologies….they clearly handled this situation well. In fact I’m sure it will be the model for how we handle all future elbow injuries.
    
    Along those lines….when do we get the announcement that Campos is having TJ surgery too after “resting” his elbow for an entire season?
    - Mister D
      
      And why the hell is Sabathia back and pitching? Couldn’t he have just had TJ when he went on the disabled list in August?
- Graig not Craig
  
  Read between the lines much, Dr. Kevin? Another way of looking at it is that the medical staff decided to shut him down to see if the elbow might heal rather than rush him into career altering surgery. But that would be giving the Yankees Organization the benefit of the doubt. Let’s not do that, by any means.
  - http://www.twitter.com/_swarlesbarkley Drew
    
    I wouldn’t call TJS career altering, but your point is fair.
    - Graig not Craig
      
      “I wouldn’t call TJS career altering” said no pitcher who ever had TJS. Stats show that pitcher effectiveness goes down following TJS. 10-15% of the surgeries fail (or the players fail to rehab properly. Many experience numbness in their hand and have to overcome a loss of flexibility in their elbow. Not to mention the loss of at least one productive year (a big deal when you consider the average career for a MLB pitcher is 8-9 years).
      - Bo Knows
        
        there are numerous pitchers currently in the MLB that have had Thommey John and are perfectly fine. There are countless players that have had the surgery since its inception that have had the surgery and have been fine. It’s surgery so yes there are risks, but nothing you said about decreased effectiveness really holds any weight.
        
        If Banuelos doesn’t come back from the surgery, more than likely it’ll be because he didn’t do what he was supposed to be doing in rehab, and if that’s true (meaning he pulls a francisco liriano) then he doesn’t deserve to be on the Yankees in the first place.
        
        Graig not Craig
        
        “nothing you said about decreased effectiveness really holds any weight”
        
        Facts hold weight in my world.
        
        http://tartagblog.blogspot.com.....still.html
        
        Mister D
        
        The study analyzed 33 Major League baseball pitchers who had Tommy John surgery from 1987 to 2004.
        
        Sample size might need to hold some weight too.
        
        Bo Knows
        
        33 players across 27 years, out of literally hundreds that have had the surgery in that same span….no the argument doesn’t hold weight.
        
        Now I will say that the first year back, command does suffer (well known fact) because pitchers are rusty and command is known to be the last thing to return after Thommy John (but that “study” makes no mention of that well known variable) Of course its easier to blame the surgery rather than than the other variables that actually play part in any possible issues.
        
        Graig not Craig
        
        Spell Tommy correctly in one of your posts and I might take you seriously. I will stand by my original statement. Tommy John surgery is a career altering event. It’s not a blister on a finger, or a hangnail. The seriousness with which Manny’s future effectiveness is being discussed here proves that it is a big deal.
        
        Bo Knows
        
        Oh wow great comeback, insult me for putting an h in a name that is a short version for Thomas. Your going to be an ass, I can be just as rude.
        
        That said, no one is disputing having surgery is not a serious thing, but the event has become so common that Banuelos probably has a higher risk of complications due to infection than he does suffering further damage due to the surgery.
        
        By the way I don’t give a rats ass if you take me serious or not, that “study” wouldn’t even be accepted in a HS Biology class as a valid study.
        
        Graig not Craig
        
        Small sample study of orthopedics > Know-it-all blowhard on a baseball blog with a plethora of baseless opinions. Done here. You get the last word.
DERP

Save us Ty Hensley! You’re our only hope!
- http://bradley.morien@gmail.com FachoinaNYY
  
  You mean the guy that had a questionable physical?
  - MannyGeee
    
    LOL, yeah so when he gets his TJS next year, the Yankees Medical Staff will be to blame. I love our fanbase!
    - YanksFanInBeantown
      
      Yeah, because we all know the high correlation between shoulder abnormalities and torn elbow ligaments…
      - http://fendersonandhampton.com Cuso
        
        Right, because you don’t….
        
        /vicious circl’d
MannyGeee

bummer. at least hes only 21 and we still have a chance to fix him, unlike that Nova guy…
- Klemy
  
  I want to laugh at this, but I may just cry.
DERP

Josh Norris ?@jnorris427
Cashman said TJ only a reality recently. “If we knew he’d needed TJ a year ago, he’d have had it done a year ago.” #Yankees
- http://www.yankeeanalysts.com Domenic
  
  You have to question the truth of this.
  
  Banuelos hasn’t thrown a baseball in any meaningful capacity in months, and it is difficult to imagine that he only recently suffered some setback that created a need for surgery. Either they knew about it awhile ago and hoped rest/rehab would take care of it, or they are incompetent. Or, perhaps, some blend of the two.
  
  I hate to be a pessimist here, but the handling of Banuelos this season seems incredibly inane.
  - Andy in Sunny Daytona
    
    Honestly, I bet he did re-injure his elbow during rehab. And I would bet that is the reason (of many) why Billy Connors was relieved of his duties.
  - Mister D
    
    Your usage of inane seems incredibly inane.
  - The Big City of Dreams
    
    but the handling of Banuelos this season seems incredibly inane.
    
    —————————
    
    How they handle their pitchers period is inane. But then they just shrug their shoulders and chalk it up to pitchers get hurt.
    - http://www,riveraveblues.com GT Yankee
      
      ^^^^x2 Anyone realize the team has not produced a meaningful starting pitcher since Andy (maybe IPK although I feel he’d have been a failure in the AL East). And those that were slated and actually made it to the big show (Hughes & Joba) have seen their careers derailed by injuries too.
      
      If they want to get under the luxury tax fine. But hopefully they’ll see fit to write a blank check to the BEST pitching development guy they can out there.
      - The Big City of Dreams
        
        Exactly that’s the thing ppl don’t make it seem like fans are freaking out. The FO is banking on developing young effective starters. They are lowering payroll which means they need to rely heavy on young players that don’t make alot. There is less room for error because they won’t be able to outspend their mistakes.
        
        Short Porch
        
        Keeping austin Jackson ipk and montero would have made them younger and cheaper.
Mister D

TINSmotherfuckingTAAPP.
forensic

To save time and typing, would it be possible to just copy and paste one of the prior 3,000,000 arguments about the Yankees and developing prospects that this post is sure to elicit?
- Graig not Craig
  
  Should have taken your advice.
jjyank

Well this really sucks. Considering his age, I wouldn’t have been too pissy about it had the surgery taken place in like May. But now? Damn.
CountryClub

This means he most likely doesn’t throw a meaningful pitch for the Yanks until 2015 (assuming he comes back strong).
- forensic
  
  And to connect threads, it means he likely won’t be able to help much for the 2014 payroll in the rotation which they were really counting on.
  - Laz
    
    I don’t think he will have any meaningful impact in 2013 either. /just saying.
    - Rockdog
      
      Also, I doubt he will be able to help much this post-season.
      - dkidd
        
        can he pitch tonight?
vin

So another year on the shelf, plus another half-season of poor control.

Thank Mo he’s young.
- Chris
  
  Clever. I think of Mo as a super being as well.
Brain Cashman

Just to think my job and everyone else is still safe
- thenamestsam
  
  Get rid of all the GMs whose pitching prospects get hurt and there won’t be anyone to hire to replace them.
  - Mister D
    
    Unless, bear with me for a second, you never draft any pitchers good enough to be prospects. PROBLEM SOLVED!
    - thenamestsam
      
      You may be on to something here.
      
      Lowest ERA on the team this year: Dewayne Wise.
      Lowest ERA on the team in 2009: Nick Swisher.
      
      Why even bother with pitchers? I say we just draft all outfielders and then let the extra ones do the pitching.
      - http://bradley.morien@gmail.com FachoinaNYY
        
        Championship!
      - DM
        
        Right — but have them throw underhand, like slow pitch softball. Less risk.
        
        Don’t draft/trade for/sign pitchers. They’re too volatile.
JohnC

Maybe they should just have Campos have it as well, since its inevitable he’s gonna need it somewhere down the line
Robert

Killer B’s Brackman A BUST
Betances A BUM
Banuelos A Bursted Bubble

And to think we could have had King Felix for these guys!!!!

Yanks should sign Grenkie and let Swish,Grandy and Cano walk
- CountryClub
  
  Seattle has never even entertained offers for Felix. They’ve shut the door on anyone that asked.
  - David
    
    That fact never stopped the Fans from suggesting the trade. :-)
- Kyle A
  
  No thanks to Zack Grenke don’t need this guy to have meltdown at yankees stadium when has a bad game or two
  - Bo Knows
    
    He’s done fine in California
    - http://fendersonandhampton.com Cuso
      
      Not that I necessarily agree with the “Greinke can’t pitch in NY hypothesis,” but your assertion that he’s pitched fine “in California” doesn’t negate the sentiment.
      
      California is cupcake-town
      - Mister D
        
        / state
      - Mister D
        
        / state
      - Bo Knows
        
        You mean pitching in front of a dedicated fanbase in the second largest media market in baseball?
        
        All Praise Be To Mo
        
        I’m a Yankees fan here in Southern California, when the Yanks come out to Anaheim there are more Yankees fan than Angels, we take over that stadium, I really wouldn’t call the Angels fans dedicated.
        Also, I think he’d have more of a problem with the media in NY than in California.
        
        Bo Knows
        
        Honestly he just strikes me as a guy that just doesn’t give a damn about what others do or say about him. His condition is due to internal matters, not external. He’s gone through something far rougher than a couple of sniveling reporters, and if someone can go through those type of demons he can handle NY.
        
        The man said it best himself when he was asked about playing in NY a few years ago “It’s just more people to ignore.”
- CP
  
  Banuelos A Bursted Bubble
  
  Exactly. No one has ever come back from Tommy John Surgery successfully.
- BeanTooth
  
  The Ms were willing to trade Felix for them? Why does this seems like news to me? I don’t recall that ever being the case. Also, sign one good pitcher but lose three of your top bats? Not a good idea.
- jesse
  
  Believe it or not, the Yankees tried their hardest for Felix https://twitter.com/jonheymancbs/status/157986574699724800
  
  Sometimes, you can’t force a trade no matter how much you want a particular player.
- MannyGeee
  
  so revsionist history tells us we could have traded these 3 bums for King Felix.
  
  REAL history tells us that Felix HErnandez has never been really part of trade talks.
  
  Lore has it that the Red Sox offered “Any 6″ of their prospects (including the phenoms that netted them Adrian Gonzalez, Mark Melancon, and Andrew Bailey… plus the LapTop Theif and the 2nd coming of Cy Young) and Jack Z said no.
  
  so yeah…
Carl Pavano

This kid’s a wimp
- Sean C
  
  Yeah, because he can totally pitch through that wonky elbow.
  - All Praise Be To Mo
    
    The point
    
    ———–
    
    Your head
Carl Pavano

This kid’s a wimp
- David
  
  ICWYDT
  - http://fendersonandhampton.com Cuso
    
    IDSWYDT
- Jobu
  
  Ya, he should strain his ass like a real man!
thenamestsam

It sucks, but he was so far ahead of the development curve that it could be a lot worse. He’ll be a 23 year old in AAA in 2014, and assuming he’s fully healthy he could still be ready to contribute to the big club by halfway through the year.

I know everyone will be desperate to find someone to blame, whether it’s the medical staff, or Cashman, or whoever, but the reality is we don’t have anywhere near enough information to evaluate the decision making process in any meaningful way. Yes, it now looks like it would have been better to have had the surgery months ago, but there are so many things on the table we just don’t know anything about. It’s a bummer, but these things happen.
- jjyank
  
  +1
  
  Agreed.
- Graig not Craig
  
  “I know everyone will be desperate to find someone to blame”
  
  Where would you ever get an idea like that?
- The Big City of Dreams
  
  It’s a bummer, but these things happen.
  
  ———————-
  
  Could they stop happening to the Yankees for a second. Ppl thought the development path of the Big 3 was tough but the Killer Bs have taken a worse hit.
  - thenamestsam
    
    Sure, the Killer Bs haven’t worked out as well as we all hoped, but the reality is that Brackman and Betances were always extremely high risk-reward prospects. Both had the potential for true dominance, but both also had a ton of bust potential, even at the absolute peak of their prospect status. That both of them missed (seemingly) is no surprise.
    
    As for Banuelos, he had been way ahead of the development curve, and now he’ll be right back on a more normal schedule. It sucks, but it’s not anything that isn’t happening to teams all over the league.
    - The Big City of Dreams
      
      True it happens to a lot of teams but this organization is banking a lot on these pitchers and once again the plan gets thrown off track.
      - gc
        
        I WANT GUARANTEES DAMMIT!!!!
        
        The Big City of Dreams
        
        No just one one guy.
        
        Cashman’s plan was to have a good young inexpensive rotation and so far that’s not going to be the case.
- Robinson Tilapia
  
  This.
  
  Still, though: Sweet baby fucking Jesus. It’s getting pretty difficult to completely ignore those who question this sort of injury timeline becoming some sort of a pattern.
  
  Get well, ManBan. You’ll still be 14 when you come back.
Austin Aunelowitzky

Oh crap. What is status on Campos?
- BeanTooth
  
  News coming in 3…2…1…
- Robinson Tilapia
  
  Billy Connors apparently confused his elbow with his ass. Ass tendon replacement surgery was a success, though.
Mike Myers

Wow, that stinks.

Mike, do you know if his free agent clock keeps ticking?
- http://fendersonandhampton.com Cuso
  
  NSIS
  
  Did you just want to get Mike to notice you or something?
  
  there’s easier ways. Try showing him some leg.
awy

billy connors implicated in this and other rehab pitcher problems?
- Cris Pengiucci
  
  The blame has to go somewhere. Either they have evidence that he contributed to the on-going problems with pitcher rehab or they’re looking for a scapegoat. We’ll never know with certainty.
  - Jose M. Vazquez
    
    I bet scapegoat because Billy used to be the “mechanic” who fixed pitchers for many years. Someone has to pay the price.
ron

Wtf happened in may that they didn’t see this, its not like it could get worse by not pitching. Another babied pitching prospect drops. Smh.
- The Big City of Dreams
  
  “Don’t worry it’s all bad luck”
  
  You’ll be hearing that in this thread shortly.
The Big City of Dreams

Is anyone surprised?
- Kyle A
  
  Nope it the same team that traded for a Pitcher ( pineda) who had bunch of red flags all over him..
  - CP
    
    I looked through a lot of pictures of him, and I don’t see any red flags on him:
    
    https://www.google.com/search?num=10&hl=en&site=imghp&tbm=isch&source=hp&biw=1440&bih=703&q=michael+pineda&oq=michael+pineda&gs_l=img.3..0j0i24l9.991.4003.0.4321.20.18.2.0.0.0.221.1910.4j13j1.18.0.efrsh..0.0…1.1.XsVYNvg_Eyo
    - http://fendersonandhampton.com Cuso
      
      ugh http://www.google.com/imgres?n.....s:18,i:206
  - Bo Knows
    
    Name three of these so called red flags that existed before he was traded
    - http://www,riveraveblues.com GT Yankee
      
      How about one Giant Flag from the Bleacher Report?
      
      “Last year, Seattle Mariners pitcher Michael Pineda started out like a house afire, with an 8-6 record and 3.03 ERA in 18 starts spanning 113 innings. The second half told a completely different story, as Pineda stumbled to the finish with a 1-4 record and 5.12 ERA in his final 10 starts spanning 58 innings. The Mariners eventually shut him down in September, but it was clear that Pineda’s shoulder was suffering from a fatigued arm, with his velocity noticeably down from the first half as well”.
      - CP
        
        Except his velocity was noticeably down only for his last start:
        
        http://www.fangraphs.com/pitch.....8;pitch=FA
      - Bo Knows
        
        First problem you quoted BR
        
        Next, All of Pineda’s peripheral stats improved or remained the same meaning Velocity remained same (except for his last start which took place two weeks after being shutdown), his walk rate dropped, strikeouts increased, GB% increased, FB% decreased, LD rate stayed the same
        
        His number of hits increased (especially infield hits) but considering that groundballs go for more hits thats easily explainable.
  - http://www,riveraveblues.com GT Yankee
    
    This just in. Upon the press release of this injury Cash contacted the Mariners about reaquiring Jesus Montero for Manny Banuelos. Jack Z was quoted as saying, “Are you kidding, that kids arm right now is nearly as ****ed up as Pineda’s was when I traded him.
Reggie C.

Talk about an epic fall from grace. Banuelos should disappear from top 100 prospects lists and frankly I’d write Banuelos off future top 10 farm lists. Doesn’t really affect the ML squad for 2013, but since Banuelos is essentially a non factor for 2014 as well, Cashman and Eppler are going to need to prioritize a trade/ free agent buy of a good starter. Lets not forget Hughes may walk at the end of next year.
- Robinson Tilapia
  
  Why wouldn’t he be ready for 2014? What am I missing here? He comes back strong, he’s a factor for mid-2014.
  - Reggie C.
    
    After what would be two missed seasons, I’m not sure the team can reasonably expect Banuelos to impact the 2014 rotation in a role other than Sept call up. Coming back strong? He’ll need to log a full season’s worth of innings in AA and AAA before jumping into consideration.
    - Robinson Tilapia
      
      Yes, I’m talking a best case scenario, but I’m not willing to say “non-factor” for the entirety of 2014, which is what you suggested in the first comment. I agree with your reply, though.
- MannyGeee
  
  yeah, because top prospects never get hurt. and they never ever come back from TJS and contribute…
- http://fendersonandhampton.com Cuso
  
  “An epic fall from grace”
  
  Really? Epic? Fall from grace?
  
  Don’t you actually have had to make it somewhere before cliches like that become remotely apropos?
DSFC

Well, they finally canned Connors. When does Nardi finally get the richly-deserved ax?
- The Big City of Dreams
  
  Hopefully when the season is over.
- Kevin M.
  
  Well, according to posters here they actually deserve promotions because the Yankees did such a fine job handling this situation.
  - jjyank
    
    …said nobody ever.
    - Robinson Tilapia
      
      Apparently, if you run both your and my posts through Google Translate’s “Dipshit to English” mode, it turns out that we said just that.
http://www.twitter.com/matt__harris Matt :: Sec110

2015!
DJ4K&Monterowasdinero

I can’t get that 3-2 changeup to Youk with the bases loaded in ST 2 years ago out of my mind!

Strike 3 with Montero catching.

You can’t predict baseball.
- Robinson Tilapia
  
  That was awesome. And it could still happen, only anyone could look good against the Red Sox now.
- http://fendersonandhampton.com Cuso
  
  I remember that.
  
  Pretty sure it was a curveball
FLYER7

Time for a new organizational philosophy on pitching prospects…coddling and babying doesnt work (see Joba) and taking them one step on the ladder doesnt work or get them to MLB any faster (Manny), time to force feed and skip rungs..
- Bo Knows
  
  How does that help? Banuelos was a fast mover making it to AAA by age 20 he was on pace to reach the majors this year at age 21 (had injury not occurred)
- Need Pitching & Hitting
  
  “time to force feed and skip rungs..”
  
  Isn’t that what they did with Joba.
  And even Hughes to some degree.
FLYER7

Time for a new organizational philosophy on pitching prospects…coddling and babying doesnt work (see Joba) and taking them one step on the ladder doesnt work or get them to MLB any faster (Manny), time to force feed and skip rungs..
Farsnworth

Our farm system has to rank in the 20’s after this season, no?
pvdeluca

by any standards, the Yankees’ handling of their young pitchers is abymsal
- Cris Pengiucci
  
  And what orgainzations have a strong history of handling young pitchers? 2 come to mind immediately: Tampa and Washington. Got some more to add? I’m pretty sure it’ll be well less than 50% of the teams out there.
  - MannyGeee
    
    well, Strasburg just had TJS last year. And the Rays just put Slater Koekkoek on the DL with a shoulder injury.
    
    By pvdeluca’s logic, these two teams treat their pitchers ‘abysmal’ as well…
    
    That… or this stuff happens to every team.
    - The Big City of Dreams
      
      Every team at least has one guy make it through. Ppl are still holding out hope for Hughes to live up to the hype.
    - pvdeluca
      
      Hmmm, I wonder how any team has ever developed any young pitching. It must be a giant crapshoot, huh?
      
      seriously though, you mention the rays, they have developed more young pitching in the last 4 years than we have in the 15
      But my criticism is not from the lack of young pitchers developed, it’s from the embarrassing mismanagement.. Joba, Brackman, Pineda, Campos, Manban, the list is growing….. seems like someone was not thinking things through, but that’s just me. I tend not to blame everything on bad luck.
      - Robinson Tilapia
        
        You forget the part where the Rays absolutely sucked for years.
        
        pvdeluca
        
        Oh, that’s why they didn’t sign a minor leaguer with little baseball experience and a bad elbow to a major league contract. Also, spend 2 years limiting an effective young pitcher to groom him for a starter’s job only to completely change course with little explanation to their fans. Or, take the “wait and hope” approach with their top pitching prospect. Also, trade their best young hitter for 2 guys with arm problems. One more, they just signed a first round pick with shoulder abnormalities… see a pattern?
        
        DT
        
        Our best young hitter sucks this year.
        
        The Big City of Dreams
        
        And besides Price and Niemann who else was highly rated and made it
      - The Big City of Dreams
        
        I tend not to blame everything on bad luck.
        
        ———————-
        
        Exactly don’t get me wrong some of it is but c’mon now. If that’s the case the Yankees have some of the worst luck in the world.
        
        pvdeluca
        
        Jeremey Bleich is bad luck, the other stuff….? like i said, it’s getting to be a pretty long list.
        
        The Big City of Dreams
        
        Exactly a long list but wait for Cash to talk about the group behind the Killer Bs. It’s a new cycle every few yrs.
        
        DT
        
        It’s bad luck because all those guys were considered top talent and healthy when they got them. The fact they go injured/turned out bad despite being limited in innings and etc has nothing to do with Cashman or anyone.
        
        The Big City of Dreams
        
        I think it does the FO is inept when it comes to pitching.
  - Bo Knows
    
    Oakland and San Diego are pretty good too. Atlanta does a decent job, so do the Giants
    - CP
      
      Who has Oakland developed? Their entire rotation right now are rookies.
      
      San Diego does a good job because they play in the best pitchers park in the league, in the worst hitting division in the league.
      - Mister D
        
        Right. They developed Parker from Arizona. Yankees should do that, but not give anyone up.
        
        Bo Knows
        
        Gio Gonzalez, Trevor Cahill, Brett Anderson are the notable guys from just the past 4 years and the fact that right now they are able to run out a rotation full of rookies and hold there own is also a good testament. You don’t need to include the guys they traded for, but don’t dismiss them.
        
        DT
        
        Brett Anderson get injured after every other start.
    - Mister D
      
      If you’re praising Atlanta, you better not be one of the people whining about Pineda. Vizcaino is one of the most parallely parallels you’re going to find.
      - Bo Knows
        
        No I’m not, I was one of the people who supported and loved the trade when it happened and still defend it….but it doesn’t matter if you believe me or not
  - http://www,riveraveblues.com GT Yankee
    
    San Fran
    
    Cain, Bumgarner & Lincecum would be #1’s on a lot of teams.
    - CP
      
      Lincecum and his ERA over 5 would be a #1?
      
      Putting that aside, those pitchers were drafted 25th, 10th and 10th overall. The last time the Yankees had a pick in the top 25 they drafted Ian Kennedy (who has pitched only slightly worse than Cain since going to the NL West). The last time the Yankees had a pick in the top 10, they drafted Derek Jeter.
- Robinson Tilapia
  
  Generalizations: Never made anyone sound smarter.
Ted Nelson

It’s great how many MDs we have on the board who have seen ManBan’s tests!

Seriously, if you don’t fit that description you cannot possibly comment. It didn’t work out. That doesn’t mean they necessarily took the wrong approach. They might have. Or they might have taken the approach that would work oit the majority of the time or had a much lower risk, and just had it backfire in this case.
- jjyank
  
  Isn’t it just so great? If only the Yankees would hire the RAB poster community, nobody would get injured!
  
  Yeah, it sucks. But the reality is that nobody here has enough information to throw around blame.
  - DC
    
    Don’t stop there…hire the RAB group to manage the team and they’ll never lose a game.
- Cris Pengiucci
  
  Well stated. We’ll never know the whole story. Everyone is entitled to be upset with the outcome, but to state that someone in the organization did something wrong without all the facts and strong professional knowledge of what might have been done differently is just wrong.
My Observation

With the issues with Brackman (bust), Betances (no control), Banuelos (TJS), Pineida (labral tear), and Campos (elbow soreness), there is no young, major league ready talent on the horizon anytime soon. Phelps and Warren are nothing more than 4th or 5th starters. Not shocked the Banuelos injury might of cost Billy Connors his job. Why not toss out Nardi Contreas too as Minor Pitching Coordinator. Someone needs to be made accountable. Hire a guy like Rick Peterson or Leo Mazzone to run the whole minor league pitching program. Like to see how Cashman is going to get to $189 million dollar payroll by 2014 when there is no quality, young starting pitching on the way up from the farm.
- The Big City of Dreams
  
  Call Dave Duncan see what he’s doing.
  - Robinson Tilapia
    
    Perhaps Roger Craig is just sitting in a retirement home somewhere….
- Monty
  
  Spend less on position players. Give Almonte a shot… he strikes out as much as Granderson for 1% of of the salary and sign a pitcher.
- Graig not Craig
  
  “there is no quality, young starting pitching on the way up from the farm”
  
  What about Nik Turley and Brett Marshall? This might be a good off-season (Post World Series Championship) topic for our esteemed RAB writers.
- DT
  
  Pineda is back next year.
  - The Big City of Dreams
    
    But at what level
JScott

As I’ve mentioned before, only two pitchers have ever had TJS prior to reaching the Majors and then gone on to have substantial careers AS STARTERS. That’s David Wells and Kenny Rogers. If anyone can think of others please let me know, but so far I haven’t come up with any. It doesn’t seemto bode well for Manny, who, after all, saw his elbow go kerflooie despite never pitching a whole lot in the minors.

Until further notice, I now think of him a a relief prospect and nothing else. Obviously, he could still become a starter, but history suggests rather strongly that’s not where the probabilities now point.
- Bo Knows
  
  That’s really an arbitrary thing because there are guys that were put on the fast track and got hurt needing TJS shortly after reaching the majors (most recent cases being Strasburg and Zimmerman)
Graig not Craig

I just read this article about kids getting TJS to improve their pitching. http://www.foxnews.com/health/.....t-steroid/

Maybe we should blame ManBan’s parents for not getting this surgery done years ago. Maybe the Yankees should get TJS for every pitcher they draft. Maybe I should make sure you know I am not serious.
- Robinson Tilapia
  
  My kid’s going under the knife next week.
  - Pat D
    
    Isn’t your kid…kinda young?
    - Robinson Tilapia
      
      It’s called “early intervention.”
      - Pat D
        
        That doesn’t answer the question. What are you hiding, sir? I’m going to call social services on you!
        
        Oh, that’s right, you work in that field. Well, I guess you’ve got this all figured out!
  - forensic
    
    It’s only prudent that you schedule him for two, one on each elbow. You just don’t know yet which one he’ll prefer using.
MannyGeee

I as well would like to:

1) throw some selective (and pretty much made up) “facts” to show how bad the Yankees (and no one else) is at grooming pitchers,

2) call for the heads of anyone whos ever coached or instructed a pitcher in the Tri State area (Not just Yankees, not even professional pitchers either… that guy coaching middle school baseball in Yonkers? FUCK EM! FIRED!!!!!!!)

3) and declare doom (DOOOOOM’D!!!11!11!one!1) over this team in general.

great times. that was fun. fucking bridge jumpers
- The Big City of Dreams
  
  Yea it’s all just bad luck folks don’t worry about.
  - Evan3457
    
    It was for the Cubs when they had about 1000 great young pitchers in their farm system 10-12 years ago headed by Wood and Prior. Same thing here.
    - The Big City of Dreams
      
      At least Wood and Prior actually had a run. The Yankees are having guys flame out in the minors
- Mister D
  
  I always assume these panic-at-the-first-signs-of-someone-else-panicking types are also the ones who talk the most shit when things are going well. The guys whose actual confidence soars because a baseball team he likes is winning baseball games.
DM

Ouch. That sucks. I was hoping he could show enough in 2013 to be considered for a payroll-saving-end-of-rotation spot in 2014. This is going to be an extra-interesting offseason. They can’t wait until December of 2013 to craft a team within the $189mil constraint.
- dkidd
  
  i could see this 2014 rotation:
  
  cc
  pineda
  hughes
  nova
  phelps
  - forensic
    
    I’d prefer they let Hughes walk as a FA and figure something else out for that spot.
    - dkidd
      
      still holding out hope that phil can be a solid #3
      
      would it kill the guy to hit the gym this off-season?
  - DM
    
    Maybe — if Pineda returns strong, Nova gets straightened out, Hughes signs a team-friendly extension, and Phelps is legit. That’s basically an older CC with 4 questions marks. Not much room for error there.
Joe R

You sure you didnt mean Betances? ::Crosses fingers::
Bo Knows

I’m frustrated by this news, but its more depressing that this seems to be happening a lot with Yankee injuries (not just pitching). They get hurt, team trainers say nothing big, turns out it was something major. I might be time for the team to start investing/looking into things like Biomechanical analysis of all pitchers under the Yankee Umbrella. It’s not a common thing with all teams but the Nats, Tampa, and just recently (hired the guy this year) the Fightin’ Showalters are doing this. It’ll allow the team to see where the pitcher is excess stress on the critical points of pitching and allow them to make changes that will give them the best chances of staying healthy, and having successful careers.

BTW

Players that chose to be guinea pigs to this kind of medical evaluations were a young CC Sabathia when he was still a prospect and Cliff Lee the year prior he became the Cy Young winner and Ace caliber pitcher he’s been for the past 4-5 years.
Bill

time to stop babying these pitchers with pitch counts and inning limits. if they’re going to get hurt they’ll get hurt regardless. 40 years ago guys threw every 4th day and only came out for a reliever if it was a blowout and no one counted pitches and they were some of the greatest pitchers the game has ever seen.
mick taylor

yanks should get a hold of gil patterson to replace connors.
Gonzo

Can we all agree that the Yankees are reticent when it comes to injuries? I mean that even in comparison to other teams.

Next time someone is injured let’s not all say it’s nothing or it’s the worst. Let’s just know that time will tell.
Bavarian Yankee

d’oh!

so frustrating.
mick taylor

idiot cashman should have made gil patterson either his major league pitching coach or minor league pitching coordinator. patterson desparately wanted to be the pitching coach but was passed over by cashman in 2009 and 2011. look at the great job patterson has done as oakland’s minor league pitching coordinator. i would replace connors with him.
- http://www.riveraveblues.com Mike Axisa
  
  Patterson was the Yankees minor league pitching coordinator as recently as 2007.
  - Kosmo
    
    The same Gil Paterson NYs 1st round draft choice in 1975 who along with Guidry was going to form the backbone of NYs pitching staff for years to come ? The same Gil Paterson who blew out his elbow in 1977 (?) never to pitch in the bigs again.
Robert

2013 Staff Pick 5 CC,Hughes,Kuroda,Nova,Pettite, and Phelps

Minor Leaguers with a shot at starting in Bronx during 2013 Adam Warren and Nick Turley, Wild card Pineda

Suddenly I feel like our pitching staff is in big trouble!!!!
mustang

Does anyone want to trade the 2 B’s and Montero for Gio Gonzalez now?

That’s why they are called prospects.
- Mister D
  
  Orioles should have traded Machado for Gonzalez back when Machado was just a prospect.
RetroRob

When’s the announcement on Campos’ surgery?

Young pitchers having TJS is all too common. Just would have been great if it happened last May.
ADam

Another success story…
Tom

While I think it’s wrong to say the Yankees medical staff screwed up, I think it’s fair to ask “did they screw up?”

I’m sure they have some internal controls and evaluation, but I’d be curious as to how the MRI looked early in the year with a more recent one. Did it get worse? Did it just show no improvement so they determined rest wouldn’t work? Was it something during the rehab process that made it worse?

I hope this is an opportunity to continue to look at the decision process on these type of injuries (rest vs surgery)

While each injury is unigue, the Yankees seem to have had a fair amount of injury/rest/rehab/setback/rehab… recently (Banuelos, Gardner, Tex, even Pineda). Do they need to be more conservative? less conservative?
- Tom
  
  unigue? unique…
- bpdelia
  
  Tom. you are a Yankees fan. Your opinions and suspicions,are defacto FACT. You don’t have questions because volume and boldness only prove the accuracy of your opinions. your use of logic is disturbing, as is your desire to get more information
  seriously though I agree. I thought pineda was rushed and paincky hamfisted but this seems, like he had am,issue the MRI (like most mris) was inconclusive. they rested as,per dr. recomendation. Then, when he ramped it back up, he hurt it. more MRIs, dr. saw “something. we should probably open it up but based on the rest, outcome and symptoms TJS is likely”. Nothing to see here. it sucks but he is very young and TJS for young pitchers has an excellent recovery rate. As for development they seem,middle of the pack, to me. the big three turned into a good RP, a good number 3 and a 26 year old Phil Hughes who is at least a #4 and next year could very well be a #3 in, his prime. Got a #5/RP in nova. got a MLB swingman/ spot starter in Phelps. developed quite a few excellent relievers all,arounf the league. got a top shelf set up guy. they’ve been average. the hyperbole about the Yankees falling to develop a David, price is absurd. you can, only develop the players you have and,we don’t draft in the top ten. the draft is a crapshoot but go to BREF and look at the draft, position for the games top pitchers. you will notice a STUNNING corelation,between ace hood and draft slot.
  just sayin is all
- bpdelia
  
  Tom. you are a Yankees fan. Your opinions and suspicions,are defacto FACT. You don’t have questions because volume and boldness only prove the accuracy of your opinions. your use of logic is disturbing, as is your desire to get more information
  seriously though I agree. I thought pineda was rushed and paincky hamfisted but this seems, like he had am,issue the MRI (like most mris) was inconclusive. they rested as,per dr. recomendation. Then, when he ramped it back up, he hurt it. more MRIs, dr. saw “something. we should probably open it up but based on the rest, outcome and symptoms TJS is likely”. Nothing to see here. it sucks but he is very young and TJS for young pitchers has an excellent recovery rate. As for development they seem,middle of the pack, to me. the big three turned into a good RP, a good number 3 and a 26 year old Phil Hughes who is at least a #4 and next year could very well be a #3 in, his prime. Got a #5/RP in nova. got a MLB swingman/ spot starter in Phelps. developed quite a few excellent relievers all,arounf the league. got a top shelf set up guy. they’ve been average. the hyperbole about the Yankees falling to develop a David, price is absurd. you can, only develop the players you have and,we don’t draft in the top ten. the draft is a crapshoot but go to BREF and look at the draft, position for the games top pitchers. you will notice a STUNNING corelation,between ace hood and draft slot.
  just sayin is all
Samuel

Next move needs to be the immediate dismissal of Nardi Contreras, who is the roving pitching guru for the minor leagues for the last 10 years or so.

His policies have done NOTHING but produce mediocre talent and injured young arms.

#fireNardiContreras
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