Saturday Night Open Thread


(Norm Hall/Getty)

Well, if you were hoping the Yankees would trade Alex Rodriguez to the Marlins for Heath Bell, you can forget it now. Miami traded Bell to the Diamondbacks today as part of a three-team trade that sent Chris Young to the Athletics, Cliff Pennington to Arizona, and a prospect to the Marlins. Young definitely would have made sense for the Yankees as a right-handed hitter with power and speed who can play a legitimate center field, but alas. I have to think the likelihood of a Justin Upton trade just went down, but I suppose Seth Smith or Josh Reddick may be available now.

Anyway, here is your open thread for the night. There’s no baseball being played — the Giants and Cardinals are traveling to San Francisco and will continue the NLCS tomorrow. There is college football on though, so talk about that or any non-politics topic here. Enjoy.

Categories : Open Thread


  1. CANOlli says:

    OF wishlist…

    Shin Soo Choo
    Josh Willingham
    Jason Kubel
    Ryan Doumit
    Mike Morse
    Melky Cabrera
    B.J. Upton

    • Rey22 says:

      Awful against lefties
      can’t field
      can’t field
      can’t field
      can’t field
      Many questions surrounding PED stuff + the media circus around it
      Too expensive (probably gets a bigger contract than Swisher, in which case just sign Swisher)

      I’m not saying there’s an obvious perfect candidate out there, but I really doubt he’ll come from that list. I guess I could see Choo happening.

      • CANOlli says:

        Mashes righties. Power hitting lefty perfect for YS3.
        RF in YS3 is the perfect place to hide bad defenders.
        I refuse to let the media control my ideas about this team(whether it’s AROD, Melky whoever)
        Don’t see B.J. getting the same contract as Swish,but it’s possible.

        • Rey22 says:

          I wouldn’t exactly call Choo a power hitting lefty (best totals are 20 and 22), though I do suppose he’d be aided by the RF porch. He’s already 30 and Cleveland might want a pretty good package considering he’s been really good in the past, though he’s a free agent soon, so I guess that lowers his price.

          As for the bad defenders, I guess it’s the best place to hide them, but these guys are like putrid bad, 1B/DHs masquerading as outfielders.

          For Melky, agree on the media not running the team, but I reaaaaaally don’t see the Yanks taking a chance on him.

          And BJ is only 28 (Swish turns 32 soon, big difference), elite defender with speed and decent power. He’ll definitely get a bigger deal than Swish.

          • CANOlli says:

            Problem is, these are the options unless you think re-signing Swish or dealing for JUpton/Cargo is a realistic possibility

            • Need Pitching & Hitting says:

              Other possible options:
              Angel Pagan
              Torii Hunter

            • Rey22 says:

              I don’t think they’re getting Swish, or JUpton/Cargo. More likely Cashman comes up with something unexpected that nobody saw coming, kinda like the original Swisher trade or Pineda.

            • Get Phelps Up says:

              I’d be fine with platooning Ichiro with someone like Cody Ross or Reed Johnson.

              • CANOlli says:

                really? I just can’t get comfortable with the idea of going into the season with that. Not to mention, Ross and Ichiro will both probably get at least 2 years from somebody(i know you said “like” Ross, but still)

                • Need Pitching & Hitting says:

                  Agree on Ross. I’d be surprised if Ichiro got 2 years.

                  • CANOlli says:

                    he’ll get 2/18-20 somewhere, whether he wants to play somewhere other than the Bronx is the real question. I could definitely see him taking a 1-year deal to chase one last championship with this team.

                    • MannyGeee says:

                      Agreed. I think he’d consider 1/10 from the Yankees over 2/20 to go suck ass in KC or Flushing or Miami or some shit.

                      That said, I think I agree with Tilapia…. San Fran is making a metric shit ton of sense right now at serious suitors for the man called Ichiro.

                    • CANOlli says:

                      My concern on the man called Ichiro is that he’s been completely useless for the past 2 seasons with the exception of like 30 games. Is that really who we’re most comfortable with as the primary RFer to start next season?

                    • jjyank says:

                      I’m with you, CANOlli. I would be pretty damn nervous signing Ichiro to be the every day RF.

                    • Get Phelps Up says:

                      I want him as the left side of a platoon, but I wouldn’t want him to play any more of a role than that.

                    • CANOlli says:

                      Even as the left-side of the platoon he’ll get like 400-500 abs

                    • Get Phelps Up says:

                      Ibanez had only 323 ABs against RHP this year. He won’t get that many.

                • Mr. Sparkle says:

                  I’d sign Ichiro yesterday if he was willing to come back. Even for two years. He can still run, hit, play defense and most importantly on this team…stay healthy. Even with a lost step he’s miles better than every other option available via free agency. I wouldn’t waste trade chips on the rightfielder. I’d save them to fix third base and/or centerfield.

      • Get Phelps Up says:

        I wouldn’t want to let “can’t field” be the reason for not getting a certain outfielder (except for Doumit who has played only 82 games in the outfield in his career). A bad defensive outfielder is easy to hide in RF at Yankee Stadium.

      • JobaWockeeZ says:

        Swisher can’t field either.

        • Preston says:

          Swisher has been worth +9 runs in RF since he’s been a Yankee, wait until you have to watch Willingham gimp around out there if you think Swish can’t field.

  2. Rey22 says:

    Can Seth Smith play a passable right field defensively? He’s got good numbers as the dominant half of the platoon. Pair him with a Reed Johnson or something like that and you can get very decent production out of RF for a relatively cheap amount.

    • CANOlli says:

      I think it’s more likely that Oakland looks to move Crisp or use Smith/Young as a platoon as opposed to trading Smith or Reddick

      • Rey22 says:

        I was thinking if they want to platoon it’d be either Reddick or Smith, having both seems a bit redundant with Cespedes in LF and Coco being a switch hitter. Unless they want to have 2 platoons, one in RF and one at DH or something.

        • CANOlli says:

          Why not just use Young/Smith as a DH/4th OFer platoon

          • Preston says:

            Young should be playing D every night, Cespedes and Reddick in the corners. I think Crisp will be the odd man out going to the Nats, Rays, or Braves.

            • CANOlli says:

              Again, I don’t see why they wouldn’t roll with..
              Cespedes LF Crisp CF Reddick RF Smith DH vs righties, and
              Crisp LF Young CF Reddick RF Cespedes DH vs lefties

              • Preston says:

                Because Crisp is making money they don’t really have, his bat is only valuable in CF, and he could bring back something that could fill one of their many areas of need.

  3. Pat D says:

    This offseason is gonna be a whole lot of suck.

    • Sarah says:

      Truth. Already is at my house. Dad is busy claiming this team doesn’t know how to win and there’s no chance they win again until they get new players (all new players maybe). I think maybe they are allowed to keep Gardner and Nunez, but it is unclear.

      /head desk

    • JobaWockeeZ says:

      Actually I’m looking forward to using creativity and smarts rather than outspending everyone again.

      Even if they just lose Swish and Soriano and nothing else I’ll be happy.

  4. steven says:

    i wud love riddick on the yanks

  5. Preston says:

    This trade was absolutely moronic for the Dbacks. I just can’t even describe how stupid it was. I would have been willing to trade Nunez and Phelps for Young to come in and play CF, that certainly beats Cliff Pennington and his 65 wRC+ and the rotting over priced corpse of Heath Bell. The A’s do have to be looking to trade an OFer though now, although it’s most likely to be Crisp or Smith. Maybe this means Cespedes is available, I think his power would go through the roof at the stadium, his glove would play better in the small RF, and he definitely has a big enough arm.

    • William says:

      Yeah, but what’s the price for Cespedes? He would be a legit 35 homer guy as a Yankee,albeit with some K’s (sounds familiar?). He would come fairly cheap, but the A’s would ask a lot. I think the package could be Nunez, phelps, Heathcott, and Bichette.

    • Preston says:

      I have no idea what the A’s would want, but he’s cost controlled, young and really good, so I’d definitely kick the tires on it. I think they’d want Nunez and Phelps to bolster their team now, and probably two of the lower level guys to help down the road. And if I were Cash I’d think about pulling the trigger on that deal.

    • Kosmo says:

      I disagree. Essentially they swapped Bell and Young´s contracts and got a very good defensive SS in Pennington who could rebound to 2009-2011 numbers, certainly not great but OK. Nunez has yet to prove he can be a good defensive SS and Phelps is really a SP who has tons to prove. D-Backs are loaded in SP prospects. Bell pitched well down the stretch and needed a change of scenery. If a Andrus for Upton falls through at least the D-Backs have themselves a good D-player in Pennington.

  6. TomH says:

    …if you were hoping the Yankees would trade Alex Rodriguez to the Marlins for Heath Bell, you can forget it now.

    Delighted. Alex will be fine. By March, his hand will be OK again, and the media will have moved on to inflame everyone over the death of some junkie celebrity.

    • I think the media members that cover the team and page 6 are different.

      • TomH says:

        By the “media” I mean Big Media, TV, Radio, the big dailies–all the usual rabble-rousing suspects who have corrupted national life generally for the past sixty years.

        Frank used to drive his car at them back in the early ’50s. He could smell what was coming.

        • vicki says:

          what was coming? oscar wilde wrote 120 years ago:

          “in old days men had the rack. now they have the press.”

          it may be worse but it ain’t new.

          • TomH says:

            Quantity changes quality. At a certain point, a pile of sand becomes a beach. That’s what happened. We’ve got the quantity. The quality is, of course, bad quality.

            In fact, Wordsworth intimated disgust with the press in the Preface to Lyrical Ballads. So, yes, there’s a tradition there, you’re right. Great comment from Wilde, who knew what he was talking about.

            • vicki says:

              you’re right; the pervasiveness is the point. more outlets, more hours, faster tech. and the harder they fight for consumers the more outlandish the stories the hucksters hawk. scourge.

              raised me wordsworth, eh?

  7. the mick says:

    is montero avail to play third base?

  8. What would it take to get Shin-Soo Choo?

    I guess it starts with Nova (or Hughes?)

  9. If I’m Cashman, my offseason checklist looks like this:

    1) Re-sign Kuroda
    2) Gage interest for Granderson/Cano
    3) Try to bring back Ichiro on a 1 year deal
    4) Sign Melky as the 4th OFer
    5) Explore trades with A-Rod
    6) Re-sign Pettitte
    7) Bench depth (Ibanez, another bat, Chavez?)

  10. Randy says:

    Drop A-Rod outright. Cancel his contract based on Signing without Yankee knowledge of steroid use. Make him fight for contract in the courts. It’ll take years. Win or lose he’ll be gone, the face of MLB and players use of drugs will change the game. The Yanks will be heralded as saviors of the game.

  11. Rocky Road Redemption says:

    Actually, I’m kind of looking forward to the offseason. It’ll be fascinating. It might go badly, but then it might go really well too. We’ll see.

    • jjyank says:

      I am too. I actually love the Hot Stove. I usually leave MLBTR alone outside of the winter and the trade deadline, but now I can go back to checking it religiously again. It’s fascinating. All the intrigue, all the guessing, all the surprise moves that blow you away (Yankees or non-Yankees).

      I have a gut feeling the Yankees will do something big. Not crazy, blow up the team big (as some seem to wish for), but like 1 big move. Whether it be A-Rod gone, Headley, Upton, or someone I’m not even thinking of. I just have a feeling. No facts or rationality to back that up. For whatever reason, I just think something will happen outside of your boring bench player/relief pitcher signings or retaining your own free agents (like Kuroda/Pettitte/Mo).

      • CANOlli says:

        Carlos Santana: Banuelos, Nova, Romine?
        Justin Upton: Nunez, Hughes, Williams/Austin, Gumbs?
        Carlos Gonzalez: Phelps, Williams/Austin, Flores, Gumbs?

  12. Pat D says:

    Oh, god, just when I thought Jim Bowden couldn’t get any dumber…I just read his fucking article about the Yankees.

    • Sarah says:

      Anything that includes signing Josh Hamilton is a terrible idea. It is going to be a long winter.

      • jjyank says:

        Absolutely. I find it hilarious that there appears to be some overlap between the “this team is a bunch of old, overpaid chockers” crowd and the “we need to get younger/better” group.

        Hamilton solves neither of these. Maybe “better” for about 2 years. But the next 3-5 years of his free agent deal will make us wish we could sign A-Rod till he’s 50. But, you know, the grass is always greener!

        • Preston says:

          I wouldn’t touch Hamilton with a ten foot pole. He had a serious drug problem, Texas has basically given him babysitters who are on call 24/7 and Arlington is not exactly fun city USA. He’s relapsed twice (once at the college bar I went to every week while at ASU, I get it, it was a fun bar) the second time, CJ Wilson and handlers had to go pick him up. How the hell would he handle NYC, he could literally go on a bender and get lost for two weeks with all of the bars here.

          • jjyank says:

            I agree with you. Though the relapse thing isn’t what bothers me the most, it’s what will happen to his body in a couple of years as he ages, given everything he’s put himself through in the past.

            Stay far, far away from Hamilton.

            • Preston says:

              Yeah, I think his joints and body have to be considered at least 2-3 years older than they are because of his life experience.

        • Get Phelps Up says:

          I like how Hamilton’s bad performance in the last few weeks of September when his team was busy blowing a 13 game lead doesn’t make him an “overpaid choker” in the minds of those people.

          • jjyank says:

            Like I said, grass is always greener for some fans.

          • Preston says:

            Or that in an elimination game when the score was tied he flubbed a foul ball. There is nobody who can come off of the streets and hit the ball better than a MLB player. You could grab hundreds of people out of the stands that would have made that catch. Not doing something that is extemely hard (hitting top notch MLB pitching) is not choking. Not doing something commonplace (catching a lazy flyball) is.

        • Sarah says:

          Exactly. Even my bridge jumping father doesn’t want Hamilton.

          I don’t want him for his health or his addiction issues. On the other hand, he’d probably provide some serious cover for ARod when he doesn’t perform/gets hurt/falls off the wagon.

    • DC says:

      I’m not an insider and can’t read it, but the title confirms all you need to know about Bowden.

    • Need Pitching & Hitting says:

      Wow. Just read it. I see why he’s no longer a GM.

  13. Terry says:

    Reddick is pretty appealing to me. He’s a much better player than he was with the Sox. He’s young and developed some power.

    • Rey22 says:

      Which is why the A’s will ask a ton in exchange. He also really dropped off in the second half. Bad luck, or did the league figure him out?

      • forensic says:

        It’s not that he dropped off in the second half. His whole season was basically a mirage based on a huge May. Other than that he was his typically mediocre (or worse) self.

  14. Just for fun….when A-Rod opt’d out, Cashman supposedly was ‘very close’ to dealing for Miguel Cabrera.

    What was the package?

    Here’s the Marlin/Tiger deal:
    December 4, 2007: Traded by the Florida Marlins with Dontrelle Willis to the Detroit Tigers for Dallas Trahern (minors), Burke Badenhop, Eulogio De La Cruz, Cameron Maybin, Andrew Miller and Mike Rabelo.

  15. Hornets686 says:

    A-Rod, Granderson, and Nova for Jason Bay, Johan Santana, and David Wright.

  16. Sag says:

    How about approching Washington about a Arod & Nunez for Warth and whatever eles. They could put Zim at first and Arod at 3rd. and butts in the seats

    • jjyank says:

      As a new DC resident, butts in the seats isn’t the problem. Keep dreaming your “dump A-Rod somewhere” theories. It ain’t DC.

      Besides, they don’t have a player named “Warth”.

  17. Reuben Sierra's Chains says:

    Isn’t this totally out of the norm that a trade would be made during the postseason and before the World Series is over?

    With that said the A’s are big winners here. They definitely just got better.

  18. nsalem says:

    Maybe this team needs a change in mindset rather than a change in players. Russell Matins OPB in 2008 was ,385 and this year he was down to .311. Granderson has gone from a .365 OBP in 08 to .319 this year and Tex has slid from .410 down to .332. All of these players are in their early 30′s and their plate discipline seems to have mysteriously disappeared over a 4 year period. This should not be happening and was a regular season problem besides being a playoff problem. Is it possible for them to go back to what they were? I didn’t see Martin much as a Dodger but I can’t imagine he could achieve what he did with the Dodgers with the all or nothing approach he showed us this year. For Tex and Granderson (and much like Giambi) I would guess it’s the seduction of our right field porch that has become their undoing. As a non Yankees both Tex and Giambi were capable of using the whole field and both of them by their second year in New York turned into different and not as effective creatures. What is to stop anyone we ever bring here (no matter what they did elsewhere) from falling into the same trap. This team won 96 games this year, but if the three players I am discussing were using their old approaches maybe this team would have won over 100 games and fared better in the playoffs.
    I like this team and if we replace Ichiro with Swisher, add a couple of bullpen arms to replace the departing Soriano , find a suitable right handed outfielder to replace Jones , resign Andy and Kuroda and most importantly get Tex , Grandy and Martin to relearn what they already know. We would be deep in speed, power, pitching and defense. This is especially true with Gardner here and Swisher gone. Quite possibly what I am saying is much easier said than done, but I think it is food for thought and a counter outlook to the notion of jettisoning our four or five top prospects for MLB stars who may fall into the same trap that Granderson and Tex have fallen into.

    • Chris says:

      Well said. And while too much onus and blame is put on the hitting coach when fit hits the shan, I do think that the responsible of ensuring the batter plays within his strengths is at least somewhat his responsibility.

  19. The Real Greg says:

    MIght as well put it here.

    The Sox have hired John Farrell to manage next year. Reports are Blue Jays get Mike Aviles as compensation.

  20. 28 in 2013 says:

    In an op-ed written for The Associated Press, Schmidt writes that A-Rod’s humungous, 10-year, $275 million contract signed in December of 2007 has cursed Rodriguez.

    “Alex Rodriguez was cursed. At the time he had no idea, none of us did. That contract changed him and baseball and has been a burden to many. A burden under which he has to play, fans have to watch and baseball has to exist. Alex Rodriguez’s career will never be appreciated.”

    • Pat D says:

      So his Texas contract didn’t do all of that back in 2000/2001? The same offseason where huge money was handed out to Manny Ramirez, Mike Hampton, Mike Mussina, Denny Neagle and Darren Freaking Dreifort?

    • vicki says:

      ps i went to that parade downtown november 2009. it was so fucking cold that day. and nobody will every take it away from me or arod.

  21. Captain Gift Basket says:

    Riddick would be perfect for the Yanks – he struck out 6 straight times in the playoffs, hit for shit – but hey, he hit a HR, and that’s all the Yanks care about.

  22. Chris says:

    Anyone else read John Harper’s Daily News article? Some of his ideas of altering next year’s team include expecting Tyler Austin be in right by midseason, let David Adams play third or put Noonie in the outfield.

    Considering everything I’ve read about Adams here it doesn’t sound like he’s having a smooth transition to third at all. Hopefully that changes.

    Austin just got promoted to AA before the season ended and it sounds like a bit of a reach to expect him to be in Yankee pinstripes by midseason after only having a handful of at-bats above A ball.

    As far as Noonie goes, there’s certainly a precedence for putting infield prospects to the outfield. One that comes to mind is B.J. Upton, who came up as a shortstop before jogging after fly balls in Center. And yea, sure, I remember him butchering balls in left last year but they really need to get this kid a position with his bat.

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