Monday Night Open Thread

December 10, 2012 by Mike Axisa 201 Comments

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The Yankees need to sign a player and relatively soon because Alex Rodriguez is getting asked questions about the alledged centaur painting. The MSM is starting to run out of ideas and that is only the tip of the stupidity iceberg. Before you know it we’ll be reading articles about Robinson Cano‘s offseason facial hair and analysis of Josh Pettitte’s pitching performances for Baylor. So please, Yankees, sign someone and make it stop.

Anyway, here is your open thread for the evening. The Texans and Patriots your Monday Night Football game, but neither of the basketball locals are playing. Talk about whatever you like here, just don’t be a jerk.

Pat D

I’ll be a jerk. Here’s how.

The following is a message from the National Apple Institute:
FUCK PEARS!
- National Pear Institute
  
  Your just pissed that you haven’t hit puberty yet and can’t even grow fuzz. Go hang out with a fucking banana.
  - Pat D
    
    That’s high comedy.
    - jjyank
      
      I try. Pears for life.
      - Cris Pengiucci
        
        When you get older, maybe it’ll be plums … or prunes.
      - Pat D
        
        I’m a little disappointed with you, by the way.
        
        Not for the fake insult, but for forgetting to change back your handle and therefore giving yourself away. And you want to go work for the NSA? I may have to notify them of this.
- I Collect Brett Gardner Cards
  
  george carlin fan eh?
  :)
  - Pat D
    
    Absolutely.
The Real Greg

Jets fans are so hateful. The media attached to them too. Never thought I would see such negative reaction to a win.
- Robinson Tilapia
  
  I do feel like Jet fans are a window into what 1980’s New York looked like, except it’s 2012.
- JobaWockeeZ
  
  Because the fans and the media bring high expectations with a team that hasn’t done much. Yes, you had got to two AFC championship games but only because of a truly great defense.
  
  Now they get Tebow, the media spends 95 percent on their segments covering the Jets like they’re great and then when the games are actually played, everything falls apart. Since the media is obligated to cover Tebow you get this circus.
  
  Now it could have been avoided if Mark Sanchez was league average but he’s the worst starting QB by far. After bravado from the Jets FO, players and media only to be horrendous then hate is spewed.
  
  And honestly the fans have a right to be upset with that franchise.
  - The Real Greg
    
    Which is why I say. Never “expect” in sports.
    - JobaWockeeZ
      
      Fair enough. However I can say for sure a lot of Jets fans were in the opposite camp. Maybe it’s not fair because the media was the root of all this but regardless.
  - http://twitter.com/matt__harris Matt :: Sec110
    
    Chad Henne, Blaine Gabbert, Jake Locker, Matt Hasselback, Christian Ponder, Brady Quinn, Matt Cassel, Carson Palmer and anyone who’s thrown the ball for the Cardinals this year.
    
    That’s a list of QBs Sanchez is better than. Not saying he’s the answer, but he got no help from the GM this year.
    
    Even before injuries, they were without a true #1 WR (Holmes is a slasher, not a deep threat), a #1 RB (Greene has proven he’s a good #2) and they need a RT.
    - JobaWockeeZ
      
      Mark Sanchez ha the 3rd worst QB Rating. And the worst one isn’t playing anymore. So sorry if I’m only off one but he is terrible.
      - http://twitter.com/matt__harris Matt :: Sec110
        
        QBR is a flawed stat.
        
        YanksFanInBeantown
        
        Well, his passer rating is the third worst in the NFL too.
        
        Preston
        
        It also doesn’t take into account the team around them. Christian Ponder has better stats. But give Sanchez that O-line, with AP doing his thing and a receiver like Percy Harvin who can take a 5 yard hitch and turn it into a TD and he’d look pretty good. I have no idea if Mark Sanchez is a “good” Quarterback, but he’s played better than this in the past, and you can see that he has the talent. The Jets have lots of problems that don’t have anything to do with him.
        
        YanksFanInBeantown
        
        Looking a lot worse than Foles right now. And the Eagles have a worse O-Line and are missing their No. 1 WR, their No. 1 RB, and Celek got a concussion on the first play of Sunday’s game, his best so far.
    - YanksFanInBeantown
      
      All of those guys except for the non-Kolb Cardinals are playing better than Sanchez this year, and for a significantly smaller cap hit.
The Real Eddard

Anyone else notice that all these other clubs are signing FAs, wheeling and dealing to improve, except the NYY. Pirates and Dbacks signed our guys away from us, Indians sign Mark Reynolds who was there for the taking, even the Royals are trading for ace pitchers. The Dodgers appear to be the new Yankees as this ownership just sits on its hands with a laissez faire attitude. All because they want to save a few bucks while ticket prices will continue to go up.
- The Real Greg
  
  Have heard anything from the Orioles
- Pat D
  
  Then don’t buy a ticket.
- Robinson Tilapia
  
  We couldn’t even keep Mickey Storey.
  - Need Pitching & Hitting
    
    Or Eli Whiteside.
    - National Pear Institute
      
      Sammy Pearce, where art thou?
      - jjyank
        
        Damn it.
        
        National Peach Institute
        
        I feel your pain.
      - Get Phelps Up
        
        Dewayne Wise…
    - RetroRob
      
      …or when the team didn’t even bother to bring on board Shane Victorino for $40M. Frankly, the battle of the offseaosn was lost when Jeff Keppinger went to Chicago on a three-year deal.
      
      Yeah, that’s it.
- Get Phelps Up
  
  You of all people complaining about not signing Mark Reynolds?
  - MannyGeee
    
    #EddardWorld, man…. Contradictions? Try Eddard-tradictions!
  - JobaWockeeZ
    
    For 6 million and comparable offensive numbers to Granderson why not?
    - Get Phelps Up
      
      Not that, it’s just that he’s the DEFINITION of an anti-Eddard player with his high strikeout and homer totals. I personally really wanted Reynolds.
      - JobaWockeeZ
        
        Gotcha.
- http://www.riveraveblues.com Mike Axisa
  
  No, I haven’t noticed that all. Thanks for pointing it out.
- ClusterDuck
  
  All these other clubs signing our guys is an addition by subtraction. Martin, Swisher, Chavez…ugh, what a waste of money they were.
  - jjyank
    
    I hope this was a joke.
    - ClusterDuck
      
      I hope your comment is a joke.
      - jjyank
        
        Ha. Okay then. Find me a catcher better than Martin, a better back up 3B/1B/DH than Chavez, and a right fielder better than Swisher, realistically. I shall wait anxiously upon your return. Even if there are a couple of options, they were far, far from “addition by subtraction”. I’m too tired to do post everything myself, so I’ll just direct you over to Fangraphs and you can take a look at the numbers yourself.
        
        Jacob
        
        Raul Ibanez, The one time Marcus thames played third, and I can play right field I do suppose.
        
        Jacob
        
        Oh and if we can’t get marcus thames then we should get chone figgins, he is a super utility man you know.
        
        vin
        
        And Ichiro can hit 30 homers a year if he tried to.
        
        Jacob
        
        I actually predict him to break the record for most homers in a season this year.
        
        forensic
        
        I know you’re joking, but I actually do expect a modicum of power out of him. He does try to ambush pitchers sometimes and he hit like a monster at YS this year (5 homers in just 117 AB, though 0 on the road with the Yankees). He really likes the porch in RF (as do all lefties) and I could see him certainly reaching double digits next year and maybe even approach his career high.
        
        I’m not at all saying he’ll replace Swisher’s power, but if he can continue to sneak some grounders through or beat out some IF hits, that touch of power mixed in with hopefully a slightly above average OBP and solid defense would make for a solid overall player.
        
        ClusterDuck
        
        I tell you what.
        
        I’ll find you a third baseman, catcher and right fielder who combined in post season play, will hit better than 29 for 185 with nine RBI’s.
        
        Those are Martin’s, Swisher’s and Chavez’s totals in post season play for the Yanks.
        
        jjyank
        
        Okay. Then let’s hear some names buddy.
        
        Need Pitching & Hitting
        
        That’s a horrible performance.
        But you have to get to the postseason first.
        No guarantee the replacements hit any better in the postseason, and a strong chance the replacements don’t make the postseason to begin with.
        
        Get Phelps Up
        
        Didn’t Martin his a game winning homer?
        
        Get Phelps Up
        
        *hit not his
- MannyGeee
  
  I can’t wait for #EddardWorld takes Chavez Ravine…. Teh muzical!!!!
- jesse
  
  Can’t believe everyone still responds to this guy considering he’s a troll. Really no point in bothering with this guy.
  - jjyank
    
    We know. Most of us don’t take him seriously and just enjoy a good laugh. Hell, Tilapia, Plouffy, and occasionally Havok even have fun at his expense on Facebook. Every forum needs comic relief.
    
    As far as trolls go, he’s at least entertaining. Except when he called us all douche bags the other week. But he’s better than the ultra-bitter dalelama type. Eddard is entertaining.
    - jesse
      
      Fair enough. I just remember him admitting that he’s a troll (http://riveraveblues.com/2012/11/stark-deal-imminent-between-yankees-and-rivera-79797/#comment-5206516) so I would think that he would want you guys to be upset and respond to him, but a little comic relief is always nice.
      - jjyank
        
        Well I can’t speak for everyone, but Eddard does about the opposite of getting me upset. I think he’s funny. Besides, I rather enjoy our #EddardWorld meme.
        
        Cris Pengiucci
        
        The meme alone is worth the slight aggravation he sometimes causes.
    - Pat D
      
      Oh, you kids and your Facebook.
  - Get Phelps Up
    
    Troll Hunting is fun. Especially with Edddard who contradicts himself every time he posts.
    - Jacob
      
      Until someone gets shot in the ear.
      - jjyank
        
        This sounds mildly sexual, but I’m willing to let that slide, Jacob.
        
        Dan Gold
        
        I will give you something sexual
        
        Jacob
        
        Dan Gold, is that a stripper name?
        
        Cris Pengiucci
        
        It’s his porn star name.
        
        Dan Gold
        
        You ready so feel Dan’s Gold?
        
        Robinson Tilapia
        
        Is this is going to be that type of party, I’m gonna stick my dick in the mashed potatoes.
        
        Jacob
        
        More like you pass out drunk and he diddles you in the coat room.
        
        jjyank
        
        You travelled from straight troll to groupie and an interesting speed.
        
        Jacob
        
        Or staight date rapist.
        
        jjyank
        
        Those two aren’t mutually exclusive.
        
        Jacob
        
        If he offers you a drink you should really say no JJ, I fear for your safety.
        
        jjyank
        
        Eh, he offers me a drink, I offer him a hitman. Or I neglect to forward certain intelligence reports that target his house.
        
        Pat D
        
        I’m offended. He’s abandoned me for you.
        
        jjyank
        
        Don’t take it personally, Pat. Maybe he just likes younger guys?
        
        Jacob
        
        Three is a crowd
- ClusterDuck
  
  All these other clubs signing our guys is an addition by subtraction. Martin, Swisher, Chavez…ugh, what a waste of money they were.
  
  And Reynolds is another one.
  
  I think Cashman has learned his lesson.
  - Ted Nelson
    
    Swisher (made only $5 and $7 million his first two years with the Yankees, only getting up to $10 million last season) and Chavez ($900,000 last season) were among the best bargains on the team, and in 2011 ($4 million) Martin was too.
    - YanksFanInBeantown
      
      Shit, I didn’t realize just how cheap Swisher was for us.
      
      No wonder he wants that big payday now.
- Ted Nelson
  
  Only two of those other teams won 95 or more games last season. When you’re a 73 win team like the Blue Jays, you most likely need to add players to improve. When you’re a 95 win team with arguably three of your best players coming back from injury… not as much. There’s a lot of off-season left, though, and the Yankees are rumored to be closing in on Youkilis and Ichiro.
pounder

Anybody know what Mike Lamb is up to these days? Just wondering.
- RetroRob
  
  Mike Lamb has been a running joke around here for a while, but it must have been before I was here. Was he once actually wanted by the Yankees?
  - Brendan
    
    Mike Lamb was in the system and the Yankee front office’s announced favorite candidate for third base in the short intervening period between Aaron Boone’s basketball injury and the trade of Alfonso Soriano to the Rangers for A-Rod.
    - Robinson Tilapia
      
      Such a strange moment in Yankee history.
    - Dr. Jake Rosenstein
      
      Not quite. The 28 year old journeyman was acquired from the Texas Rangers for minor league pitcher Jose Garcia on February 5, 2004. When the ARod deal went through, he was traded to the Houston Astros for pitcher Juan De Leon on March 25th.
Papi

I think we should sign Andruw Jones & put him in CF like his good ol days, then sign Carlos Lee and put him in LF b/c of his ridiculous speed. We should then ask Rich Garces to come out of retirement and be our SP #5. Or we can sign this guy for problem 18 hamburgers a game: http://dpbroadcasting.wordpress.com/2011/10/08/fat-guys-vs-chubsters-who-ya-got/
28 this year

Hmm, Kershaw extension just got even pricey. Figure 6 years with 175 as the bare minimum at this point. He has to exceed Greinke’s AAV and at least match years. Probably the first 30MM/year pitcher. Verlander is gonna be expensive in a new extension, that should be fun.
- Jacob
  
  I would drop $200m on kershaw so easy
  - Cris Pengiucci
    
    He’s probably the only one though.
    - Jacob
      
      Oh yeah, Kershaw is by far going to be better than verlander or felix, I think he is better than felix now and he still has a lot of improvement coming his way.
      - Laz
        
        His biggest selling point is that he is 5 years younger than Verlander. Verlander will already be in his 30’s by the time he is signed.
        
        Jacob
        
        Or that he is super dominant.
- RetroRob
  
  Verlander, Kershaw, King Felix. All on $30MM AAV, $200M contracts. Maybe the Yankees will be back in spending mode then. That’ll be the winter of our content.
  
  Seriously, though. The Mariners have been looking to re-sign King Felix. Greike’s contract has really got to give him pause before he puts ink to paper.
  - RetroRob
    
    Greike? I guess that’s a pitcher from Australia.
    - MannyGeee
      
      No no no….. That’s Bob Crikie, not Zack Greike…
- Preston
  
  I don’t think the AAV will be nearly that much. I think that Kershaw’s deal will be shockingly long though, he could get 8/200 or 10/230 probably. He’s very young and has just run off three straight 200 inning seasons. Verlander’s AAV could be higher, but he hits FA after his age 31 season, so probably not nearly the years.
- Anthony
  
  I agree with Preston about the 30M/year but man, he is probably my favorite non-Yankee baseball player. Would absolutely love him in pinstripes.
Jacob

Marchand seriously just asked if you would rather have 8/150 of Cano or 4/100 of Hamilton…
- Cris Pengiucci
  
  I doubt 8/150 is what Cano is looking for. More like 8/200 or more. In which case, I take Hamilton. Even at 8/150, I might take Hamilton. 8 more years of Cano scares me.
  - Need Pitching & Hitting
    
    8 years scares me too, but I’d rather have Cano than Hamilton. I think 4/120 for Cano would likely be a better value than 4/100 for Hamilton, so in that case, the extra 4 years would only cost an extra $30M. I could live with that.
    - jjyank
      
      I agree with that. I also really think Cano can handle 3B halfway or so through his next contract to compensate for his lessing range. I have less faith in Hamilton holding up in a few years.
      - Dan Gold
        
        That and I just find Hamilton so overrated and I don’t like him as a person, the dude gets under my skin.
        
        Jacob
        
        Do people take you seriously with that name?
        
        jjyank
        
        I’m fairly certain this isn’t the original Dan Gold. The original was too much of a troll to offer serious comments and sexual innuendo.
        
        Dan Gold
        
        Oh I am all original, and I like the last word in your name by the way ;)
        
        Robinson Tilapia
        
        I went to a Yankee blog and all-out man-on-man flirting broke out.
        
        Jacob
        
        Rapeavenueblues.com is what it is about to be and I am scared
        
        jjyank
        
        I’m flattered that I have a groupie, personally. He can compete with the several women doing the same.
        
        Jacob
        
        I’m trying to make my move on a lady myself actually, people who’s names start with J are ladies men I have heard
        
        jjyank
        
        Well Jacob, you and I have the “J” part in common. And you are absolutely correct. Tilapia can join us in this. I would say Plouffy too, but I’m not sure if he’s got a lady friend right now. Sorry, buddy!
        
        Jacob
        
        I gues we could just extend it to anyone who is not a troll that comments threads and can actually make non-idiotic conversations and points
        
        Robinson Tilapia
        
        Except everyone knows that my first name obviously begins with “RRRRRRRRRRRRR.”
        
        jjyank
        
        Sorry for outing the real first letter of your name, R-Tils.
        
        Robinson Tilapia
        
        or DOES it??!?!?! ;)
  - Jacob
    
    I would rather bank on Cano that whole time than Hamilton, not even close.
  - Robinson Tilapia
    
    8/200 really is where my current Cano guess lies…
    
    *coughandidgiveittohimcough*
    - I am not the droids you’re looking for…
      
      No. Please. Years 6, 7 and 8 of that deal are going to be a very dark, ugly place.
      - Cris Pengiucci
        
        I agree, at least with years 7 & 8. 6 might be OK.
MannyGeee

Ok not gonna lie, I am as excited about tonight’s MNF game as I have ever been about any MNF game I’ve ever seen. Texans at Patriots? Just insane…
- Mr Strawman
  
  So 20 minutes into the game…. still excited?
  
  Just kidding – I was really looking forward to this game as well. The Monday Night games have gone downhill and next week it’s Jets/Titans.
  
  I’m starting to wonder if the Texans are a bit of a mirage. They barely got by Jax and Det in OT in their last 3 games (they beat TEN pretty well).
  - MannyGeee
    
    Shitty shitty shitty. So disappointed I got all erect for this game.
    
    Although Talib going down injured could make it interesting. Andre Johnson might be getting open soon.
Alkaline

Tiring night. How is everyone?
- jjyank
  
  Well good sir, and yourself? I may be wrong, but I remember you being in college still. You in finals week right now?
Pistol Pete

You can sit back and pass on every deal because it could go bad and may not work out. But if the Yankees continue to snub their noses at everyone they’ll be dead in the water. Their present team isn’t good enough and their farm system isn’t as good as many other teams. Then we shit on our best players and guess what we’ve got, a losing team that has fans bitching constantly. How many of those $1500 box seats are going to be empty if Cashman is told to stay in the coma he presently is in. We’ve got too many overpaid players that we can’t do anything about but standing still with a lousy farm system and signing nobody surely isn’t the answer.
- Ted Nelson
  
  The only thing missing is the losing team…
- jjyank
  
  “Their present team isn’t good enough…”
  
  This is all I needed to quote. There is still plenty of offseason to go. Let’s have this talk in March, hm?
- Robinson Tilapia
  
  Don’t forget TEH STUBHUB.
- ClusterDuck
  
  Looks like it will be Ichiro in RF, Youkilis/Adams at 3B and Romine/Civellli at C.
  
  Ichiro and Youkils are clutch hitters. We’ll see what Romaine and Adams can do.
  
  I perfer to see those players in post season compared to Sisher, Martin an Chavez all who have a long record of not hitting at all in the post season.
  - Robinson Tilapia
    
    I don’t have a lot of trust in either Civelli or Sisher.
  - MannyGeee
    
    Got to be careful with that cists on your Civellis. Won’t be good for the baby
  - MannyGeee
    
    Also, lettuce
    - Get Phelps Up
      
      Gotta get under that celery cap.
Pat D

So the “interview” I went to today wasn’t an interview, it was more of a recruiting session. It is for a sales job, and it looks like it’s straight commission sales. They want me to come back for whatever the next step is, but I really don’t think sales is for me.

Especially since I set up what classes I’ll take next semester at the college I’ll attend. I just think that’s the better long term option.
- jjyank
  
  Hey man, if sales isn’t for you, then don’t do it. I think going back to school is a great option. Do what you wanna do.
  - Pat D
    
    I just need to make sure if the people in charge of giving the money for school consider it “reasonable employment.” Considering the lack of a guaranteed income amount, I hope not.
    - Cris Pengiucci
      
      I’d tend to agree. Straight commission, when you’re just getting started, is hard to live on. If you really have the option of making the choice, and you don’t feel your career lies in sales, then by all means, go back to school. Best of luck!
- MannyGeee
  
  Cutco?
- Preston
  
  Straight commission jobs suck, it’s stressful, and your co-workers are ultra competitive and usually slightly shady. If you have something you want to go back to school for I say go for it.
- Raul Ibanez AKA Tom Marvolo Riddle AKA True Yankee(TM)
  
  Yeah, before settling in at this gig where I’m going to be going to school part time and working part time I almost took a job that sounds very similar to this, going to Home Depots and selling people on remodeling their kitchens I think it was. I went through a few sessions and even got offered the job but when they gave me the numbers I figured out that w/ all the driving and stuff to make enough money for it to be worth it for me I would’ve had to close something like 5 accounts a day 6 days a week, which even to the guy who brought me a long one day sounded impossible.
  - Robinson Tilapia
    
    So you’re why I have this toilet in my kitchen.
Jacob

The threads have been unusually calm the past few days, I feel a troll storm coming tomorrow
- MannyGeee
  
  You missed thenMark Reynolds thread yesterday…
  - Jacob
    
    I think I caught it halfway and then I got off
    - Pat D
      
      I didn’t even bother, since I was sure it was just going to be filled with “Why didn’t they sign him?” whining.
      
      At this point I fully expect people to whine if they don’t sign Jack Hannahan.
      - JobaWockeeZ
        
        And I fully expect whining because of the whining. Which makes it no better but happens anyways.
        
        RetroRob
        
        What about whining over the whiners whining over the whiners? : -)
      - RetroRob
        
        The lower denizens of RABWorld are still smarting over losing Keppinger.
- G
  
  “A storm is coming Mr. Wayne.”
  “You sound excited.”
  Me: http://www.helloloser.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/06/Mj-thriller-popcorn-o.gif
  - forensic
    
    No idea why, but this made me think of the scene in Caddyshack where they go play in the rain. That’s good stuff…
    - MannyGeee (celery cap manager)
      
      “I’d keep playing, I don’t think the hard stuff is gonna come down for a while…”
      - G
        
        Hahaha brilliant. Also it’s actually “There’s storm coming, Mr. Wayne,” couldn’t be bothered to get it right
Raul Ibanez AKA Tom Marvolo Riddle AKA True Yankee(TM)

Ted, I don’t know if you’re around but those dynasty teams you lectured me about having role players on them also had a HOF SS in his prime, a Border line HOF CF in his prime, a border line HOF Catcher, Paul O’niel, and Tino Martinez on them, as well as a sure thing in Andy Pettitte, one of the best playoff pitchers ever in El Duke, and a rotating door of awesome free agent pitchers (Wells, Cone, Clemens, ect)

I’m not saying you can’t win with role players in some spots, you absolutely can. I’m just saying a “role player” at 3rd (I’ve said if Youk is a top 10 3rd baseman this year I will like his balls), a possibly compromised 39 yr old SS, a below average Catcher, a platoon in RF, and a borderline platoon player in LF(I love Gardner but he had a wRC+ of 77 against LHP in 2011) isn’t the best team. Can they win? Yeah, they could win. Are they as sure of a bet as they were in the “dynasty years?” Not by a long shot, right now they’re worse than the 2011 club.
- Raul Ibanez AKA Tom Marvolo Riddle AKA True Yankee(TM)
  
  The only things I’m sure of this season are CC Sabathia pitching 200 innings w/ an ERA ~3, Mariano saving ~30 games, Cano being an all star, Grandy hitting 35hrs, and Tex playing an outstanding defensive 1st base.
  - Robinson Tilapia
    
    I think the 2-4 spots in the rotation will be solid, as well the bullpen. I think you’re a bit too pessimistic on Jeter.
    
    Are there a ton of questions? Sure. Does exercising some patience on the team’s part, and working with the celery cap mean some veterans who’ve been around the block on one-year deals? Sure.
    
    It’s still a bit premature to make huge claims, as the holes have certainly still not been filled but, if this team goes where I think they’ll go before Opening Day, they’ll be a contender.
    
    I always figured the middle part of this decade would be a trouble point for the franchise, as it is really is the point where they’re not going to be able to ride Jeter and Mo for much longer and would be in search of a new identity. We’re here now.
  - forensic
    
    I would even question the first two things on your list, and to a lesser extent, the fourth.
- Preston
  
  If you are going to compare every team we ever field to the 1998 Yankees you are going to be upset every year for a very long time.
  - Raul Ibanez AKA Tom Marvolo Riddle AKA True Yankee(TM)
    
    I know, but I made a comment that this team currently has a lot more “meh” on it than I would like and Ted took exception and did his best to rewrite history that the Dynasty years were completely made up of roll players. I didn’t see it till later so decided to respond here in the open thread.
mustang

Great write up!!!!!!!

http://www.usatoday.com/story/sports/mlb/royals/2012/12/10/royals-rays-trade-dayton-moore-james-shields-wil-myers/1759837/

BEST LINE:

“You can talk about all of the sabermetrics in the world. There’s only one stat that tells your story. Wins.”

Damn right! love that line I’m totally stealing it
- Rocky Road Redemption
  
  I hate when people say that, because they act like they said something totally brilliant when sabermetricians never intended sabermetric statistics to be looked at as wins. I don’t get why so many people act like they did. They are what they are-advanced, weighted statistics.
  
  It’s no different than HRs. That’s the equivalent of saying, “You can hit all the home runs you want. The only stat that tells the story is wins.” Or, “You can have as low an ERA as you want. Only one stat tells the story: Wins”.
  
  Sabermetrics were never, ever meant to replace wins. They were nothing more or less than any other stats. Just weighted and a little more complicated. Not Voodoo.
  - Pat D
    
    Why do I have a feeling this conversation could turn into this:
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fqs9DYisSsg
    - JobaWockeeZ
      
      Because 50 percent of conversations here are like that.
      - JobaWockeeZ
        
        And to clarify it’s because of the trolling.
        
        Pat D
        
        Well, yea, but even some of the “discussions” or “arguments” between non-trolls turn into this.
        
        Rocky Road Redemption
        
        But only the ones where neither player is right or wrong. Whereas clearly I’m right. ;-)
        
        Rocky Road Redemption
        
        Ugh, “player” should be “poster”.
        
        Pat D
        
        Player, poster, same thing in this case.
  - forensic
    
    Well, one of the most used sabermetric stats has the word ‘Win’ in it, so I’m not quite sure I can agree with everything you said.
    - Rocky Road Redemption
      
      What are you disagreeing with? The point of the stat is to try and figure out how many wins a certain player should be worth on his own during a season.
      
      Think about it. If you dislike WAR solely because it uses the word “wins” you’re basically saying “I don’t care how many wins this guy is supposed to be worth. I only care about wins.”
      
      The point of WAR isn’t to turn magically into wins, it’s to try and figure out how many wins a player will get you. EVERY SINGLE TIME a player is signed you try and make that calculation; WAR just tries to put a more exact number on it. It’s not, and never was supposed to be, a replacement for an actual win; it’s just supposed to help you figure out how good somebody is, just like EVERY OTHER STATISTIC. It’s just more complex, and weighted.
      - forensic
        
        I’m not disagreeing with the value of the stat, but you said none of them were meant to be looked at as wins, but that’s exactly what WAR is. It’s supposed to be looked at as your number of wins (theoretically). Obviously, it doesn’t count in the standings or anything, but it is basically used to gauge your theoretical wins.
        
        Rocky Road Redemption
        
        …So what? That’s still not a replacement for real wins. It’s supposed to tell you how many wins a player is supposed to be worth. Every single time you think about signing a player you have to make that judgment. WAR just codifies it.
        
        “In the end, it’s not about how many games he should win for me. It’s about wins.”
        
        That’s stupid.
        
        Robinson Tilapia
        
        I like you both, which is why it’s my civic duty to direct you to Pat D’s “No No No Donkey” video above.
        
        Rocky Road Redemption
        
        That’s probably wise.
        
        MannyGeee (celery cap manager)
        
        ha! You are like the RAB hall monitor. well done.
    - Rocky Road Redemption
      
      You know what else has the word “Wins” in it? Pitcher wins. But funny, they’re not the same as real wins.
      
      Context is everything. Cherry-picking words from the names of the stats is useless.
  - mustang
    
    I totally understand, but my biggest problem with some people is using sabermetric as tell all of future results. What I find most ironic is that when the numbers don’t play out as forecast many same people blame it on luck.
- JobaWockeeZ
  
  And thankfully the Yankees organization is above first grade thinking.
- Ted Nelson
  
  “Sabermetrics” are meant to explain wins. Not to compete with them. To determine what led a team to win games. In the best case to be able to project forward within a reasonable range what teams will win how many games and what players are likely to contribute how much to that.
  
  Sabermetrics is just a word people decided to use to applying pretty basic statistical concepts to baseball. It’s not some competing school against some old school. It’s just examining baseball through a statistical lens.
  
  Basic statistics should be pushed down to the high school level so that everyone is exposed to it.
- Preston
  
  Actually wins isn’t the only story. Because all wins aren’t created equal. The difference between 60 and 70 wins is a huge improvement. But likely none of the fans watching noticed any difference in the level of their despair. The difference between 72-82 wins “seems” significant. Because you are now finally a “winning team”. But no 82 win teams made the post-season last year, and even with two wild cards no team with that few wins is likely to qualify for October baseball. The Royals might be that good next year, but the jump from 82 to the post season is much harder, since conceivably you don’t have as many bad players on an 82 win team and thus fewer places to upgrade. Maybe the Royals made this trade to convince FAs they’re going to compete, and they now sign Edwin Jackson and Nick Swisher and try to make that jump, but if they don’t use dollars to make that jump it isn’t coming, because they have very little left to trade without trading away MLB pieces they need. So in the likely case that this move doesn’t get them to the playoffs in the next two years then they will likely fire Dayton Moore and start trading away MLB players to stockpile prospects and go back to ~70 wins per season.
  - vicki
    
    when i get home after working a double i can’t read the entire comments section. i scroll down to preston’s posts. man doesn’t disappoint. i’m a fan.
    - Preston
      
      I’m incredibly flattered, thanks. Hope you got some sleep.
The Real Greg

Well this game has turned out to be a total dud. Brady has picked apart the Texans secondary. Pats now best in the AFC….again.
- forensic
  
  I feel really stupid for choosing to start Schaub in my work fantasy league this week. Just basically the story of my season…
  - Long-Past-His-Day-Rod
    
    I horribly mismanaged my roster in one of my fantasy leagues this week and still had a 13.6 lead going into last night. The other guy only had Aaron Hernandez left, who hadn’t put up more than a little over 12 in a single week this season so I was cautiously optimistic. Sure enough he’s over 16 by the second quarter. This is why fantasy football drives me insane.
Robinson Tilapia

One of my more labor-intensive Christmas gifts this year is taking the mixtapes I made for my wife when we were still dating and turning them into ITunes playlists, complete with proper tagging.

I just finished mixtape #4, and it’s dawned on me that, while I pride myself on listening to music from 40 years ago to the present day, a whole lot of what I listened to hasn’t changed much since 1999.
- forensic
  
  Heh, I still listen to my winamp from time to time and I don’t think there’s a song in my playlists from after 2001 or so…
  - Pat D
    
    I remember Winamp. Had so much fun downloading different skins for it.
    
    Then iTunes came along…
- Pat D
  
  I’m the same way. Very little of the music I have is from a year that starts with 2. And a lot of what I do are individual songs here and there, or albums from the Rolling Stones, the Who, Paul McCartney, Ringo Starr…
  
  I think Coldplay is the only current group I listen to, and I still haven’t bothered to get their last album.
  - RetroRob
    
    Don’t bother. Their first two, which almost could have been a double set, are their best.
    - Pat D
      
      Yea, I think the reason I haven’t bothered yet is that I didn’t fully embrace Viva La Vida.
  - Raul Ibanez AKA Tom Marvolo Riddle AKA True Yankee(TM)
    
    Soundgarden recently released a new album and it kicks seven different levels of ass. Easily their best since Badmotorfinger.
  - Raul Ibanez AKA Tom Marvolo Riddle AKA True Yankee(TM)
    
    Also, Idk how you feel about Queen (I personally love a lot of their music) there is a band called Foxy Shazam that is basically doing a Queen impression and they’re damned good at it. My favorite current band though is The Gaslight Anthem. Just good rock music.
    
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G1lq40tR72Q
- RetroRob
  
  Since I know you have a young child, you have a positive coming. As he or she grows (sorry, I can’t remember if you have a boy or girl), you are going to discover new music as they head toward their teenaged years. The gap between 0-11, however, means you will have no time for new music and won’t care, but you’ll totally get into a generation of music you don’t even know about yet as your child (children maybe eventually!) enter their preteen and teenaged years. Sharing music with your kid, even if it’s their music, is a great experience if you’re open to it.
  - Pat D
    
    I don’t consider much of what is produced today “music.” It’s more like “noise” to me.
    
    And I’m only 31. But my prospects for having children are far in the distance.
    - RetroRob
      
      Ha! No worries. I was actually responding to Robinson Tilapia, who does have a child, although perhaps I responded directly to one of your notes in the chain.
      
      You can certainly have a son or daughter at 31. Why, when I was your age, I had a six-year old. I don’t recommend starting a family in your mid-20s, but if it happens, so be it! My fear is I’ll start family #2 as I roll in toward 50. Must.Not.Do.This.
      - vicki
        
        do it.
    - MannyGeee (celery cap manager)
      
      3/4 of the ‘new’ music today is shit. Its horrible pop variations of the same 5 songs over and again. My wife and kids love it, and it hurts my soul.
      
      Yes, I’m only 33, and yes get off my goddam lawn.
Brian S.

This team blows
- forensic
  
  Excellent, well thought out analysis.
  
  At least they don’t have Swisher anymore though…
  - Brian S.
    
    We aren’t safe until he has officially signed with another team.
- Raul Ibanez AKA Tom Marvolo Riddle AKA True Yankee(TM)
  
  Wow Brian…very insightful. I mean I’m lukewarm on the team right now because they haven’t replaced their all star RF’er yet…but yeah let’s just go w/ they suck.
  - Brian S.
    
    I dunno. I just look at an 85 win team right now and I don’t think Ichiro will do much to change that.
vicki

so they’ll trade capuano or something, but right now the dodgers are at 270mm????

kaBOOM.

separate note. dayton, why you think you can dance with the fried man? why does anybody?

pronounced freed, natch.
- MannyGeee (celery cap manager)
  
  $270M is awesome. Whats gonna be better is when they get bumped in the first round by the Giants because they will soon discover that Ryu is a crap shoot and Beckett is shit.
  
  Also, while the names Gonzalez, Crawford and Hanley may have induced fear for many years in Tampa, San Diego and Miami, they are all kinda malcontents and one dimensional.
  
  Alot of money spent, but all the money in the worlds doesn’t mean rings, ask the Yankees from 2001-8.. (just dont ask the 2009 guys, k?) It should be fun to see either way.